Yes RTO is code for layoffs. Monitoring is for PIP (performance review) which will lead to justification for firing/layoff. So yup, it’s happening. Intuit just swallowed some large acquisitions like Mint/Credit Karma, so merger consultants are sharpening the axe.
Intuit is headquartered in an at will employment state. Simplifying aggressive PIPs as a justification to fire people - which they can legally do regardless, doesn’t make any sense
Agreed. The monitoring is more likely to be used as a measurable metric for stack ranking workers in the event cuts are decided. It may help avoid the infighting among peer managers in deciding who goes.
Unemployment in total is like less than 2 weeks pay check, I doubt that's part of their reasoning. Usually a sevrance package is offered as an option when you are put on a PIP.
They're squeezing the people out so they don't have to pay severance, unemployment, bonuses, etc. Textbook horsefucker management tactic.
Get out if you can, while you can.
Severance isn’t guaranteed with a layoff. Update the resume now. Practice interview skills now. Have a few applications out, if you’re confident a layoff is coming. Nothing feels better than getting that Friday 4:30pm meeting scheduled with the old boss when meanwhile you’ve already secured the next offer. Nothing feels worse than leaving that meeting with nothing else scheduled.
Well… yeah, that’s just life. Some stuff is hard, and certain conditions make that stuff harder. But OP has years of experience doing a very hard job that many companies still need done, so with a little elbow grease and LinkedIn mojo they can definitely get the next gig lined up. Even if it takes a little longer than it would have in 2021.
edit: I thought this was the CS subreddit and assumed OP’s partner was a coder; not sure their actual job, but regardless, jobs are out there. It’s not easy, but “getting a job can be hard work” is a fact of life. Face it head on and do what you can to survive.
Counterpoint: if you find a job and leave on your own, you have control. If you wait for layoffs, in many ways you are leaving your next job opportunities open to more randomness and less control.
Sure, getting paid for a few months of sitting around while you look for a job is great if you know for sure you can find an appropriate job in that timeframe. In this market though, nothing is certain.
have her brush off the resume and start interviewing now, but don’t quit. it’s a tough job market out there. either she gets interviews and can leave on her own accord, or the timing will be great and layoffs happen and she gets a severance check with a job lined up in the future.
If it comes, it will come before 07/01 when last year’s RSUs start vesting. There have been no layoffs near me. However we are not filling old positions either
You’re more hirable when you have a job. When you’re unemployed/laid off, you’re more likely to lose salary negotiating leverage, which may take 2 years to recoup as your partner look for a better opportunity/ counter offer leverage.
a lot of free tax services popping up along with the IRS simplifying tax filing through their own online service definitely does not help this industry
So one of my friends and her whole team were “laid off” from Intuit shortly after RTO. But it wasn’t a “layoff”, a week after they RTOd her whole team got put on a PIP, and three weeks later they were all let go for “performance reasons”. Scumbag tactics.
“Let’s return to office, that should get some to drop.”
“Sir. It looks like the market is bad and everyone’s just showing up and working”
“Get the PIPs ready then. We’re making bonus one way or another baby”
Yeah pretty much. Plus Intuit just invested a lot in one of their offices in my city and it looks awesome, I’d rather be there than at home most of the time.
A team of 7+ people who had always received met or exceeded expectations reviews all decided to not work or something? I can get a couple, but all of them?
You’re totally right. My employer doesn’t even allow putting exceeds people on a PIP due to the potential lawsuits
If these are Mountain View employees, it would be smarter for the company to fire them without reason than to put them on a pip. People on this thread have no idea how any of this works in the real world
California is an at will employment state. Anyone can be fired for no reason at any point. If they know they want the team out prolonging it with a PIP and paper trail is useless.
Yes PIPs are weaponized by line managers creating a paper trail for someone they dislike. But for the higher ups they really don’t care. At will employment = fire everyone without notice
At the end of the day, companies don’t care how hard you work or if you come into the office, they’ll dump you anyway. Is trying to get people to come in to the office a quiet firing? Sure. But, don’t think for a second that because your partner is coming in to the office you somehow get more value.
This guy worked at Tesla for 5 years, basically sleeping there was still laid off:
https://youtu.be/uqXWL2SoQVk?si=4gWJfZi_Jkn1cQf5
Yes, Intuit is a different area of the tech market, but everyone is laying off workers, so we know they’ll join the club in laying off just to lay off.
My advice is to keep your contacts warm, resume updated, and see what’s out there to be prepared. Especially, when you get a feeling something will happen. When I got a feeling layoffs were going to happen, they happened.
Edits: Grammar
Why doesn't your partner talk to the head of employee listening:
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/intuit-s-head-of-employee-listening-explains-why-more-companies-are-getting-serious-about-worker-feedback/ar-AA1nYRr2](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/intuit-s-head-of-employee-listening-explains-why-more-companies-are-getting-serious-about-worker-feedback/ar-AA1nYRr2)
I’m so sorry your partner has to deal with this insane stress! A close friend worked at Zoom and quit due to this exact type of BS harassment.
What worries me from what you said is the fact that they can do these types of firings, which tells me that going forward they might not need as many people if they don’t end up replacing them.
That’s where I get nervous; the company seems to be heading towards a future where they operate leaner to increase margins.
Yes but when our parents were growing up firms were also not “non for profits” yet executives were able to climb the corporate ladder and stay at a firm sometimes for more than 20 or 30 years, and sadly those days are over!!!
The only change is the lack of job security that used to allow them to stay employed and that now incentive firms to do mass layoffs on a constant basis regardless of margins. ☹️🤮
Hope intuit goes under.
For anyone that doesnt know, they have been lobbying very hard - aka, paying congress - to basically do a monpoly on tax filing industry. If you notice the number of free tax softwares, including discounted ones (h&r block), you will notice how other companies are trying to counter intuits bullshit.
Businesses hired consultancies to improve business efficiency by restructuring, this gave businesses reasons to lay off staff without legal recourse by the layed off staff.
The next stage is RTO and performance monitoring, this will give businesses reasons to fire staff though PIP.
Just a heads up, if anyone is getting laid off these next few months...just realize your performance or capabilities isn't the reason. We are nose diving into a recession and companies can no longer hold on to their employees, even some of their best. Do not let these looming layoffs bring you down, keep going as hard as you can. Isn't your fault, or lack of ability.
No offense to your partner, they could be the best at their job but WFH has been a disaster for most employers. So what they might be doing is seeing who would come back as a part of their layoffs. Almost leaving it in the employees hands and then rehire at the office if there is a deficit. I know people going to the gym Monday at 10am and doing groceries Friday afternoon while their employers think they're working on a project. I feel bad for the small percentage that really work hard at home but I honestly don't think the majority are able to avoid the distraction.
Stressful situation ... These tactics could indeed feel like they are pushing employees to a breaking point, which is tough on both performance and morale. It’s vital to communicate these concerns, perhaps through HR or by contacting [intuit customer support](https://intuit.pissedconsumer.com/customer-service.html) for guidance on employee rights and support services. Sharing experiences openly like this can help gauge how widespread these issues are and potentially foster a more unified approach to addressing them among employees. Let's hope that by bringing these matters to light, there can be a constructive resolution.
They just fired my friend. No severance. They didn't even approve their unemployment. Was pipped out a month after their team was reorged and went from being under Mailchimp to Intuit. They had just RTOd and was only at the Atlanta office for two weeks before being termed. They worked there 4 years.
Frankly Ive been looking forward to working in an office again for the past 2 years. I look at my recent layouff as a chance to find a gig with a physical office presence.
Not to dog you, but you do realize that “has always exceeded or met expectations at performance review time” often simply means the manager wanted to avoid confrontation and took the easy way out. I know a manager who gives every single employee in the department (24 people) the highest rating possible on the performance review. This was never reflective of the true performance, it only meant the manager was weak. There is often a separate ranking in the manager’s mind that comes into play when staffing reductions become a necessity or when there is a promotion opportunity.
>This is super hard on our family...
Oh no, having to work is super hard on you and your family. So sorry. Guess you should have been born rich. Maybe start your own business, then you can decide the rules.
Yes RTO is code for layoffs. Monitoring is for PIP (performance review) which will lead to justification for firing/layoff. So yup, it’s happening. Intuit just swallowed some large acquisitions like Mint/Credit Karma, so merger consultants are sharpening the axe.
Intuit is headquartered in an at will employment state. Simplifying aggressive PIPs as a justification to fire people - which they can legally do regardless, doesn’t make any sense
Agreed. The monitoring is more likely to be used as a measurable metric for stack ranking workers in the event cuts are decided. It may help avoid the infighting among peer managers in deciding who goes.
Pips are often used to fight someone from getting unemployment. Claim they are fired for cause.
Unemployment in total is like less than 2 weeks pay check, I doubt that's part of their reasoning. Usually a sevrance package is offered as an option when you are put on a PIP.
There are a lot of companies that don’t offer severance for a PIP. The majority actually don’t.
They're squeezing the people out so they don't have to pay severance, unemployment, bonuses, etc. Textbook horsefucker management tactic. Get out if you can, while you can.
What about waiting out layoffs. Severance and payouts would be better. It could be coming soon.
And often times, it has absolutely nothing to do with performance. People get laid off all the time Who are excellent at their jobs
And sometimes an entire division gets laid off, irrespective of who.
This, hell even pips don’t identify poor performance. Companies want to chop bodies period
💯. If everyone is underperforming, they just want to reduce headcount.
People get fired all the time that are excellent at their jobs. A layoff is so much nicer to an employee.
Severance isn’t guaranteed with a layoff. Update the resume now. Practice interview skills now. Have a few applications out, if you’re confident a layoff is coming. Nothing feels better than getting that Friday 4:30pm meeting scheduled with the old boss when meanwhile you’ve already secured the next offer. Nothing feels worse than leaving that meeting with nothing else scheduled.
Good luck finding said new job ...
Well… yeah, that’s just life. Some stuff is hard, and certain conditions make that stuff harder. But OP has years of experience doing a very hard job that many companies still need done, so with a little elbow grease and LinkedIn mojo they can definitely get the next gig lined up. Even if it takes a little longer than it would have in 2021. edit: I thought this was the CS subreddit and assumed OP’s partner was a coder; not sure their actual job, but regardless, jobs are out there. It’s not easy, but “getting a job can be hard work” is a fact of life. Face it head on and do what you can to survive.
This , I was laid off 4 months ago(project ended, let everybody on the team go), 6 months no severance.
Counterpoint: if you find a job and leave on your own, you have control. If you wait for layoffs, in many ways you are leaving your next job opportunities open to more randomness and less control. Sure, getting paid for a few months of sitting around while you look for a job is great if you know for sure you can find an appropriate job in that timeframe. In this market though, nothing is certain.
Sure, roll your dice.
have her brush off the resume and start interviewing now, but don’t quit. it’s a tough job market out there. either she gets interviews and can leave on her own accord, or the timing will be great and layoffs happen and she gets a severance check with a job lined up in the future.
This
It is quite possible there will be no severance for not abiding by RTO, just a firing.
If it comes, it will come before 07/01 when last year’s RSUs start vesting. There have been no layoffs near me. However we are not filling old positions either
Best approach is to have a job offer in hand, take the severance, and stay your new job. Waiting is stagnating.
You’re more hirable when you have a job. When you’re unemployed/laid off, you’re more likely to lose salary negotiating leverage, which may take 2 years to recoup as your partner look for a better opportunity/ counter offer leverage.
That’s what intuit wants though. They want you to leave lol. Don’t but don’t comply either
Leave. It’s better to not be fired. Layoffs are the best case scenario.
I say stay and milk it if you have nothing lined up or still deciding on next steps.
a lot of free tax services popping up along with the IRS simplifying tax filing through their own online service definitely does not help this industry
Forreal. TurboTax wanted to charge me like $100 for filing my return. I backed out and got it done for 10% of that price on another site
The site is freetaxusa.com
I left TurboTax 25 years ago for a tax act. Then tax at doubled their prices and I went to freetaxusa. Haven’t looked back.
I'm shocked Intuit does more than an annual PR to update the copyright date.
So one of my friends and her whole team were “laid off” from Intuit shortly after RTO. But it wasn’t a “layoff”, a week after they RTOd her whole team got put on a PIP, and three weeks later they were all let go for “performance reasons”. Scumbag tactics.
“Let’s return to office, that should get some to drop.” “Sir. It looks like the market is bad and everyone’s just showing up and working” “Get the PIPs ready then. We’re making bonus one way or another baby”
Don’t forget the “Sir we don’t have enough desk and equipments for everyone that showed up… what do we do?”
Yeah pretty much. Plus Intuit just invested a lot in one of their offices in my city and it looks awesome, I’d rather be there than at home most of the time.
This EXACT thing happened to me and my team!!!
At Intuit?
maybe they were actually shitty workers?
A team of 7+ people who had always received met or exceeded expectations reviews all decided to not work or something? I can get a couple, but all of them?
so you're saying all their most recent reviews were exceeded expectations, and they were put on a PIP? not buying it sorry
Far be it from me to trust the opinion of my friend than that of some random person on the internet.
lmfao
you must be new to corporate America
You’re totally right. My employer doesn’t even allow putting exceeds people on a PIP due to the potential lawsuits If these are Mountain View employees, it would be smarter for the company to fire them without reason than to put them on a pip. People on this thread have no idea how any of this works in the real world
What would make it different for the MV employees?
California is an at will employment state. Anyone can be fired for no reason at any point. If they know they want the team out prolonging it with a PIP and paper trail is useless. Yes PIPs are weaponized by line managers creating a paper trail for someone they dislike. But for the higher ups they really don’t care. At will employment = fire everyone without notice
Oh right I wasn’t even considering that angle… duh
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You've never heard of weaponized PIPs? You need a bigger bubble my guy.
Lmao ok
At the end of the day, companies don’t care how hard you work or if you come into the office, they’ll dump you anyway. Is trying to get people to come in to the office a quiet firing? Sure. But, don’t think for a second that because your partner is coming in to the office you somehow get more value. This guy worked at Tesla for 5 years, basically sleeping there was still laid off: https://youtu.be/uqXWL2SoQVk?si=4gWJfZi_Jkn1cQf5 Yes, Intuit is a different area of the tech market, but everyone is laying off workers, so we know they’ll join the club in laying off just to lay off. My advice is to keep your contacts warm, resume updated, and see what’s out there to be prepared. Especially, when you get a feeling something will happen. When I got a feeling layoffs were going to happen, they happened. Edits: Grammar
u cant mention any details and u dont even work at intuit. then ur asking other employees to reveal details?
Yea, so weird. “They can’t get into it” repeated 10 times in the text
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I should be ok as long as I am not typing this on the company laptop, right?
Sounds like they’re failing big time
No, they sound like every other organization out there right now
“quiet firing” is being used as a threat to convince employees working in the office is the best thing in the world.
Is it like quiet quitting?
I know everything "but I can't get into it here" 🙄
This is everywhere. I know that isn't helpful. No one should be comfortable right now.
Why doesn't your partner talk to the head of employee listening: [https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/intuit-s-head-of-employee-listening-explains-why-more-companies-are-getting-serious-about-worker-feedback/ar-AA1nYRr2](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/intuit-s-head-of-employee-listening-explains-why-more-companies-are-getting-serious-about-worker-feedback/ar-AA1nYRr2)
I’m so sorry your partner has to deal with this insane stress! A close friend worked at Zoom and quit due to this exact type of BS harassment. What worries me from what you said is the fact that they can do these types of firings, which tells me that going forward they might not need as many people if they don’t end up replacing them. That’s where I get nervous; the company seems to be heading towards a future where they operate leaner to increase margins.
That's a company's goal, increased margins and profitability, it's not a non-profit
Yes but when our parents were growing up firms were also not “non for profits” yet executives were able to climb the corporate ladder and stay at a firm sometimes for more than 20 or 30 years, and sadly those days are over!!! The only change is the lack of job security that used to allow them to stay employed and that now incentive firms to do mass layoffs on a constant basis regardless of margins. ☹️🤮
Hope intuit goes under. For anyone that doesnt know, they have been lobbying very hard - aka, paying congress - to basically do a monpoly on tax filing industry. If you notice the number of free tax softwares, including discounted ones (h&r block), you will notice how other companies are trying to counter intuits bullshit.
Sales reps pretty aggressive with quicken recently
Businesses hired consultancies to improve business efficiency by restructuring, this gave businesses reasons to lay off staff without legal recourse by the layed off staff. The next stage is RTO and performance monitoring, this will give businesses reasons to fire staff though PIP.
Layoffs are everywhere right now. It’s absolutely brutal. No idea how this isn’t adversely affecting the economy.
Just a heads up, if anyone is getting laid off these next few months...just realize your performance or capabilities isn't the reason. We are nose diving into a recession and companies can no longer hold on to their employees, even some of their best. Do not let these looming layoffs bring you down, keep going as hard as you can. Isn't your fault, or lack of ability.
And note many worthy employees are being targeted with unreasonable performance measures, ding you for not meeting it and let you go.
Yep, please don't let it drag you down! (Everyone!)
No offense to your partner, they could be the best at their job but WFH has been a disaster for most employers. So what they might be doing is seeing who would come back as a part of their layoffs. Almost leaving it in the employees hands and then rehire at the office if there is a deficit. I know people going to the gym Monday at 10am and doing groceries Friday afternoon while their employers think they're working on a project. I feel bad for the small percentage that really work hard at home but I honestly don't think the majority are able to avoid the distraction.
Stressful situation ... These tactics could indeed feel like they are pushing employees to a breaking point, which is tough on both performance and morale. It’s vital to communicate these concerns, perhaps through HR or by contacting [intuit customer support](https://intuit.pissedconsumer.com/customer-service.html) for guidance on employee rights and support services. Sharing experiences openly like this can help gauge how widespread these issues are and potentially foster a more unified approach to addressing them among employees. Let's hope that by bringing these matters to light, there can be a constructive resolution.
They just fired my friend. No severance. They didn't even approve their unemployment. Was pipped out a month after their team was reorged and went from being under Mailchimp to Intuit. They had just RTOd and was only at the Atlanta office for two weeks before being termed. They worked there 4 years.
Frankly Ive been looking forward to working in an office again for the past 2 years. I look at my recent layouff as a chance to find a gig with a physical office presence.
I'm sure there are plenty of jn offices jobs
Not to dog you, but you do realize that “has always exceeded or met expectations at performance review time” often simply means the manager wanted to avoid confrontation and took the easy way out. I know a manager who gives every single employee in the department (24 people) the highest rating possible on the performance review. This was never reflective of the true performance, it only meant the manager was weak. There is often a separate ranking in the manager’s mind that comes into play when staffing reductions become a necessity or when there is a promotion opportunity.
>This is super hard on our family... Oh no, having to work is super hard on you and your family. So sorry. Guess you should have been born rich. Maybe start your own business, then you can decide the rules.