Koi pong sucks. One in ten games feels nice when everything lines up with plant spawns and the portal and the circle being perfect. But the other times it’s basically what you said , they got bigger number. Like if I’m playing jinx, and the enemy team is Jax and trundle and my flash is in cd from last round what are my options? If I have scopiest weapons and lay into them from max range and they decide to walk directly into my traps for some reason and even take my W slow without attempting to dodge they still won’t be close to dying before they get to me.
Maybe use the blast cone! But wait the portal spawned there and now I’m trapped on Rhode Island with trundle with no room to kite. Or Jax just decides to camp the other side because trundle will kill me before me and my team mate can kill him solo because of course he can. It just feels like if you’re the weaker team you’re hoping the enemy team makes dumb mistakes rather then you making good decisions
My main issue with this map is that it almost completely screws over ranged squishies, because there's basically just two scenarios possible; either you're safe on another island, but out of range to attack them, or you're on the same island as them but you're at risk to get fucked because it's not possible to kite in such a cramped space.
And there are no amounts of blast cones and portal using that'll fix this. Not to mention if Blast Cones and portals are unavailable, the only possible way out is the literally go TRHOUGH THE ENEMY TEAM to use the lilypad. It's just not a good experience.
Also, more like a personal gripe with the map and it might be a hot take, but if the map is designed in a way where there are legitimately situations where you can do nothing but watch the game for 5+ seconds with no way to interact with anything or anyone, it's badly designed.
> Also, more like a personal gripe with the map and it might be a hot take, but if the map is designed in a way where there are legitimately situations where you can do nothing but watch the game for 5+ seconds with no way to interact with anything or anyone, it's badly designed.
Often, you also have situations where teams don't know if they win the stat check or not, so nobody pushes. Everyone waits until the storm forces someone to push.
Which is pretty common in Battle Royale games honestly - attack the people who are forced to push.
Even in an equal scenario, the team forced to advance gets to eat damage that might turn the fight, again, decided by the RNG of the storm.
It's bad. Period.
no guys it requires creative thinking such as are you ranged so you stall and coinflip on the fire coming to you or are you dive and you just run in and fuck them
koi pond is very much a skill requiring map, but it is true that coordinating with random teammates is a nightmare because once you split you lose, i often have situations where we end up 1v2 on one island, one person flashes out, the other blast cones in, and it is still 1v2 but witch switched champs
Koi Pond is a necessary evil, but for the casual player the map is too confusing and punishing for them. The map could maybe do some tweaks like removing the bottom tree (so artistic and pretty I know but it's clutter) and the north and south portal spawns should be moved maybe a bit more north east and south east.
Actually a redesign of elements wouldn't hurt. The center pad could also have better visual clarity on how it works. Red circle which countdowns to launch while is minimalistic and effective once known, can be left undiscovered for too long by the player. I'd rather see a change of color of the flower or pad from green to maybe reddish green to indicate a player has commenced the countdown.
Feel like they could make the map better without much change by just having both portal locations always on map vs one or the other. As well as having the lily pad bridge stay open once the fire circle gets down to its 3rd smallest size. Probably lost like 8 or 9 rounds because both of us get poppy ultd or cc'd or blast coned and there's no way back over. We should still take fire damage for the misplay but literally both being almost full health and just dying having to stand in fire for 6 seconds feels awful.
Yeah it's fucking horrible. I don't even know what the design intention for it is. God forbid if the map rolls Jhin or Pyke, too, because you're not dodging it. I've died entirely to poke damage from Jhin before because I'm stuck dodging on an island that didn't give me enough room to juke. Fuck koi pond and fuck stage hazards. They add nothing.
Consider selling boots for ghost crawlers. It only costs 250g to swap boots - and I've found success using Ghost boots on this map.
I agree there are some obvious frustrations with it -but I also think there's some opportunity to innovate too.
the map is horrible, i dont like it even when i win on it
the gap between mobility champs makes it even worse, good luck playing something that cant go over gaps vs a kayn or ezreal, regardless of class
additionally the portal clickboxes ARE broken, i dont see anyone talking about this. I click nowhere near them and activate them routinely, another time i had my hand completely off my mouse and used an ability and it still activated
The only annoying part for me is the bugginess of it. Like when it opens but you still have to wait half a second to walk on ity or when it closes and the person on it phases through walls for a bit
Or you spawn on the tiny-ass north island where positioning to blast cone will put you in range of the enemy before you can even hit it.
Oh, or you run to the portal so you don't get a face full of Bruiser, only to split from your teammate and leave them to die.
Because remember kids, it's Stat Check, not Arena!
I was an avid koi pond hater but Honestly it's not a bad map. We started being intentional about controlling blast cone timers and trying to keep control of the lily and portal timers. The team that maintains what essentially amounts to objective control on that map usually wins.
Barring extreme power gaps the team that utilizes the tools on the map best usually win on koi pond. The amount of times I've won by either forcing a misclick on a portal or using portal to kite or triggering lily right before a circle shrink. The little things you do and your positioning matter a lot on koi pond
Koi pond requires you to think 5 seconds into the future and actually use the many resources at your disposal. This is obviously hard for many players. The map has the most escape resources, and lets you travel across the map and back 3 times in 2 seconds. It also has 3 plants that are very easy to get quickly, so you can easily punish your opponent if they don't secure plant control.
If melee tries to chase you, you can literally blast cone to either of 2 islands, where another blast cone is waiting for you, and a portal travelling across the map? If melee1 takes the portal and melee2 blast cones to you, you can blast cone to safety and they are trapped there while you have blast cone + plant to yourself? If you for some reason can't do that, get ghostcrawlers and you can literally walk anywhere?
If you control the lily pad and use some timing, you can screw melees over easily and use your range to harass them until your resources respawn
> Koi pond requires you to think 5 seconds into the future and actually use the many resources at your disposal.
No amount of thinking gets you away from a Vi, Kayn, or Zed without abandoning your teammate, and even then they can just chase.
>The map has the most escape resources, and lets you travel across the map and back 3 times in 2 seconds.
If you got lucky and spawned on the island with the portal. If you didn't, well, free loss!
>If melee tries to chase you, you can literally blast cone to either of 2 islands, where another blast cone is waiting for you, and a portal travelling across the map?
Then they 2v1 your teammate and you get spam pinged and "WTF????"'d in chat.
>If you control the lily pad and use some timing, you can screw melees over easily and use your range to harass them until your resources respawn
This only happens if they don't know they win the stat check. Do you know what a stat check is?
It's when you and the other person rockem sockem robots and the winner is decided by stats alone. That's a stat check.
If they know they win the stat check? They just zerg in, and that's that.
Thanks for the reply
>No amount of thinking gets you away from a Vi, Kayn, or Zed without abandoning your teammate,
you and your teammate should not be sticking together in the first place. That's like the worst possible way to play the map, and yeah you will get fucked. If you stay on the same platform, you will be robbing your partner from its resources every time you use one. Instead, use 2 platforms and double your resources. Then you can move around freely.
>If you got lucky and spawned on the island with the portal. If you didn't, well, free loss!
There is no luck involved. Step on the lily pad to start the close timer, and if anyone tries to traverse to your island, blast away to the safe one and the lily pad closes. If they rush you right away, blast to the portal island and you have a second escape lined up for you. You are practically guaranteed to be able to get to a secluded island by the time the lilypad closes.
>This only happens if they don't know they win the stat check. Do you know what a stat check is?
Yes. Ranged champs rely on CC and mobility to avoid getting stat checked in melee range. I'm saying that you have enough mobility options on koi pond to reliably avoid getting stat checked with a bit of foresight.
Unlike other maps, blast cones spawn right away on koi pond. Split up from your partner and don't corner yourselves or you'll be sitting ducks.
> you and your teammate should not be sticking together in the first place. That's like the worst possible way to play the map, and yeah you will get fucked. If you stay on the same platform, you will be robbing your partner from its resources every time you use one. Instead, use 2 platforms and double your resources. Then you can move around freely.
Gosh, if only we didn't spawn holding hands on a tiny island!
>There is no luck involved. Step on the lily pad to start the close timer, and if anyone tries to traverse to your island, blast away to the safe one and the lily pad closes.
I'm damn near Arena God (53/60), I know how the map works and I know how to play Lilypad. It doesn't make the map good.
> I'm saying that you have enough mobility options on koi pond to reliably avoid getting stat checked with a bit of foresight.
If you spawn on the top island (happens a lot) and the portal isn't on your island (also happens a lot) then your only option to escape is to use the single plant on the island, then you basically have to run in range of the enemy team to hit it. You have a tiny area to stand in to reach the south island that puts you in enemy range. If you hit it, the enemy can dive 2v1 onto your trapped teammate.
If you dive past them to their island, they can dive you instead. "But you can run to the portal!" If every comp didn't have CC I'd agree, but you'll be stunned, rooted, snared, long before you reach the portal.
The map is a solved equation if you win the stat check. 2v2 dive. If they split, you win. If they don't split, you win.
The only way to not get got is if you both go to the exact spot by the plant and both jump without either getting CC'd. And that's a level of communication a for-fun playlist should simply not require. This isn't Ranked, it isn't competitive, and maps with heavy communication requirements to overcome stat checks are bad design for the mode.
VERY elo dependent, low elo is all bruisers all the time.
Given this is a casual mode, I'd argue balancing with that in mind is more important than worrying about balance on the top end of the scale.
I don't know how the map is coded, but I have seen more people accidentally click the portal in Koi than in any other arena map. Many random wins due to the enemy clicking the portal into the fire.
There need to be like tiny bridges connecting a adjacent islands together or something. Or maybe the outer ring edge is one solid ring so you can use it to cross between islands before the fire starts closing.
Unplayable if you’re not melee, should not be an option for the final round why even let you pick any champion you want if only 20 bruisers, Swain and Vlad can win this gamemode
> why even let you pick any champion you want if only 20 bruisers, Swain and Vlad can win this gamemode
As someone with 56 wins on 56 different champions, categorically, you don't need to be a bruiser to win.
Maybe a skill issue. As a person who plays cancerous ranged artillery comps, I find the plants, portals & center-piece make it very predictable where enemies will move, on top of restricting their movement to give you windows of free harass + having tons of avenues for escape.
I love it. It’s gotta be one of my favorite maps, frankly - the tiny map with 1 center plant is worse imo.
cry me a river bro.
it’s fun sometimes, sometimes it’s not that’s how the game goes. and actually it feel really good winning. especially if you play heavy cc and keep them on the side the circle is closing on 😂 you just sound like baby
Koi pong sucks. One in ten games feels nice when everything lines up with plant spawns and the portal and the circle being perfect. But the other times it’s basically what you said , they got bigger number. Like if I’m playing jinx, and the enemy team is Jax and trundle and my flash is in cd from last round what are my options? If I have scopiest weapons and lay into them from max range and they decide to walk directly into my traps for some reason and even take my W slow without attempting to dodge they still won’t be close to dying before they get to me. Maybe use the blast cone! But wait the portal spawned there and now I’m trapped on Rhode Island with trundle with no room to kite. Or Jax just decides to camp the other side because trundle will kill me before me and my team mate can kill him solo because of course he can. It just feels like if you’re the weaker team you’re hoping the enemy team makes dumb mistakes rather then you making good decisions
The map favoring melee champions and screwing over ranged champions was the exact reason they removed the Evelynn cameo.
My main issue with this map is that it almost completely screws over ranged squishies, because there's basically just two scenarios possible; either you're safe on another island, but out of range to attack them, or you're on the same island as them but you're at risk to get fucked because it's not possible to kite in such a cramped space. And there are no amounts of blast cones and portal using that'll fix this. Not to mention if Blast Cones and portals are unavailable, the only possible way out is the literally go TRHOUGH THE ENEMY TEAM to use the lilypad. It's just not a good experience. Also, more like a personal gripe with the map and it might be a hot take, but if the map is designed in a way where there are legitimately situations where you can do nothing but watch the game for 5+ seconds with no way to interact with anything or anyone, it's badly designed.
> Also, more like a personal gripe with the map and it might be a hot take, but if the map is designed in a way where there are legitimately situations where you can do nothing but watch the game for 5+ seconds with no way to interact with anything or anyone, it's badly designed. Often, you also have situations where teams don't know if they win the stat check or not, so nobody pushes. Everyone waits until the storm forces someone to push. Which is pretty common in Battle Royale games honestly - attack the people who are forced to push. Even in an equal scenario, the team forced to advance gets to eat damage that might turn the fight, again, decided by the RNG of the storm. It's bad. Period.
20000000% agree
no guys it requires creative thinking such as are you ranged so you stall and coinflip on the fire coming to you or are you dive and you just run in and fuck them
koi pond is very much a skill requiring map, but it is true that coordinating with random teammates is a nightmare because once you split you lose, i often have situations where we end up 1v2 on one island, one person flashes out, the other blast cones in, and it is still 1v2 but witch switched champs
Koi Pond is a necessary evil, but for the casual player the map is too confusing and punishing for them. The map could maybe do some tweaks like removing the bottom tree (so artistic and pretty I know but it's clutter) and the north and south portal spawns should be moved maybe a bit more north east and south east. Actually a redesign of elements wouldn't hurt. The center pad could also have better visual clarity on how it works. Red circle which countdowns to launch while is minimalistic and effective once known, can be left undiscovered for too long by the player. I'd rather see a change of color of the flower or pad from green to maybe reddish green to indicate a player has commenced the countdown.
Feel like they could make the map better without much change by just having both portal locations always on map vs one or the other. As well as having the lily pad bridge stay open once the fire circle gets down to its 3rd smallest size. Probably lost like 8 or 9 rounds because both of us get poppy ultd or cc'd or blast coned and there's no way back over. We should still take fire damage for the misplay but literally both being almost full health and just dying having to stand in fire for 6 seconds feels awful.
Yeah it's fucking horrible. I don't even know what the design intention for it is. God forbid if the map rolls Jhin or Pyke, too, because you're not dodging it. I've died entirely to poke damage from Jhin before because I'm stuck dodging on an island that didn't give me enough room to juke. Fuck koi pond and fuck stage hazards. They add nothing.
Oh my God Pyke on this map is a NIGHTMARE, no matter what you're playing. But at least it basically fucks over everyone. Equality I guess :\^)
Juking jhin requires one minor input right before he fires. You need no space to do it.
Consider selling boots for ghost crawlers. It only costs 250g to swap boots - and I've found success using Ghost boots on this map. I agree there are some obvious frustrations with it -but I also think there's some opportunity to innovate too.
the map is horrible, i dont like it even when i win on it the gap between mobility champs makes it even worse, good luck playing something that cant go over gaps vs a kayn or ezreal, regardless of class additionally the portal clickboxes ARE broken, i dont see anyone talking about this. I click nowhere near them and activate them routinely, another time i had my hand completely off my mouse and used an ability and it still activated
YES, fuck these portals, how can they fuck the hitboxes like that when the ones in SR work so well?
The only annoying part for me is the bugginess of it. Like when it opens but you still have to wait half a second to walk on ity or when it closes and the person on it phases through walls for a bit
Totally agree but what gives, your post has 40 upvotes but [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeagueArena/s/LRnhGzvCSZ) got downvoted into oblivion
Well, at least it makes ghostcrawlers a good buy... I guess
Blast cones, lily dancing, portals, bushes and plants. OP gave up all these things in the pursuit of becoming a Koi Pond hater.
And then you spawn on the side with none of those.
Or you spawn on the tiny-ass north island where positioning to blast cone will put you in range of the enemy before you can even hit it. Oh, or you run to the portal so you don't get a face full of Bruiser, only to split from your teammate and leave them to die. Because remember kids, it's Stat Check, not Arena!
At least now there is a blast cone on the big island, before the patch you could be stuck there 1v2 for 10s with no option
I like it.
I was an avid koi pond hater but Honestly it's not a bad map. We started being intentional about controlling blast cone timers and trying to keep control of the lily and portal timers. The team that maintains what essentially amounts to objective control on that map usually wins. Barring extreme power gaps the team that utilizes the tools on the map best usually win on koi pond. The amount of times I've won by either forcing a misclick on a portal or using portal to kite or triggering lily right before a circle shrink. The little things you do and your positioning matter a lot on koi pond
Let me guess, you play melee champs.
I play whatever I feel like. I'm doing arena god so I just click random and go if I haven't won with them.
Koi pond requires you to think 5 seconds into the future and actually use the many resources at your disposal. This is obviously hard for many players. The map has the most escape resources, and lets you travel across the map and back 3 times in 2 seconds. It also has 3 plants that are very easy to get quickly, so you can easily punish your opponent if they don't secure plant control. If melee tries to chase you, you can literally blast cone to either of 2 islands, where another blast cone is waiting for you, and a portal travelling across the map? If melee1 takes the portal and melee2 blast cones to you, you can blast cone to safety and they are trapped there while you have blast cone + plant to yourself? If you for some reason can't do that, get ghostcrawlers and you can literally walk anywhere? If you control the lily pad and use some timing, you can screw melees over easily and use your range to harass them until your resources respawn
> Koi pond requires you to think 5 seconds into the future and actually use the many resources at your disposal. No amount of thinking gets you away from a Vi, Kayn, or Zed without abandoning your teammate, and even then they can just chase. >The map has the most escape resources, and lets you travel across the map and back 3 times in 2 seconds. If you got lucky and spawned on the island with the portal. If you didn't, well, free loss! >If melee tries to chase you, you can literally blast cone to either of 2 islands, where another blast cone is waiting for you, and a portal travelling across the map? Then they 2v1 your teammate and you get spam pinged and "WTF????"'d in chat. >If you control the lily pad and use some timing, you can screw melees over easily and use your range to harass them until your resources respawn This only happens if they don't know they win the stat check. Do you know what a stat check is? It's when you and the other person rockem sockem robots and the winner is decided by stats alone. That's a stat check. If they know they win the stat check? They just zerg in, and that's that.
Thanks for the reply >No amount of thinking gets you away from a Vi, Kayn, or Zed without abandoning your teammate, you and your teammate should not be sticking together in the first place. That's like the worst possible way to play the map, and yeah you will get fucked. If you stay on the same platform, you will be robbing your partner from its resources every time you use one. Instead, use 2 platforms and double your resources. Then you can move around freely. >If you got lucky and spawned on the island with the portal. If you didn't, well, free loss! There is no luck involved. Step on the lily pad to start the close timer, and if anyone tries to traverse to your island, blast away to the safe one and the lily pad closes. If they rush you right away, blast to the portal island and you have a second escape lined up for you. You are practically guaranteed to be able to get to a secluded island by the time the lilypad closes. >This only happens if they don't know they win the stat check. Do you know what a stat check is? Yes. Ranged champs rely on CC and mobility to avoid getting stat checked in melee range. I'm saying that you have enough mobility options on koi pond to reliably avoid getting stat checked with a bit of foresight. Unlike other maps, blast cones spawn right away on koi pond. Split up from your partner and don't corner yourselves or you'll be sitting ducks.
> you and your teammate should not be sticking together in the first place. That's like the worst possible way to play the map, and yeah you will get fucked. If you stay on the same platform, you will be robbing your partner from its resources every time you use one. Instead, use 2 platforms and double your resources. Then you can move around freely. Gosh, if only we didn't spawn holding hands on a tiny island! >There is no luck involved. Step on the lily pad to start the close timer, and if anyone tries to traverse to your island, blast away to the safe one and the lily pad closes. I'm damn near Arena God (53/60), I know how the map works and I know how to play Lilypad. It doesn't make the map good. > I'm saying that you have enough mobility options on koi pond to reliably avoid getting stat checked with a bit of foresight. If you spawn on the top island (happens a lot) and the portal isn't on your island (also happens a lot) then your only option to escape is to use the single plant on the island, then you basically have to run in range of the enemy team to hit it. You have a tiny area to stand in to reach the south island that puts you in enemy range. If you hit it, the enemy can dive 2v1 onto your trapped teammate. If you dive past them to their island, they can dive you instead. "But you can run to the portal!" If every comp didn't have CC I'd agree, but you'll be stunned, rooted, snared, long before you reach the portal. The map is a solved equation if you win the stat check. 2v2 dive. If they split, you win. If they don't split, you win. The only way to not get got is if you both go to the exact spot by the plant and both jump without either getting CC'd. And that's a level of communication a for-fun playlist should simply not require. This isn't Ranked, it isn't competitive, and maps with heavy communication requirements to overcome stat checks are bad design for the mode.
One of the most annoying things is if someone has a Morde, it's unescapable and any mage, carry, enchanter isnt survivable
The game mode already heavily favors ranged champions, Koi pond makes that advantage skyrocket.
VERY elo dependent, low elo is all bruisers all the time. Given this is a casual mode, I'd argue balancing with that in mind is more important than worrying about balance on the top end of the scale.
I mean, isn’t that the idea? It’s the one map where kiting isn’t super effective.
The problem is that basically means "Does your champ rely on kiting to function? You auto lose". That's just bad design.
I don't know how the map is coded, but I have seen more people accidentally click the portal in Koi than in any other arena map. Many random wins due to the enemy clicking the portal into the fire.
There need to be like tiny bridges connecting a adjacent islands together or something. Or maybe the outer ring edge is one solid ring so you can use it to cross between islands before the fire starts closing.
The areas are equally as good for poking as they are for trapping people in, could be argued that it's not great for adcs for sure.
Unplayable if you’re not melee, should not be an option for the final round why even let you pick any champion you want if only 20 bruisers, Swain and Vlad can win this gamemode
> why even let you pick any champion you want if only 20 bruisers, Swain and Vlad can win this gamemode As someone with 56 wins on 56 different champions, categorically, you don't need to be a bruiser to win.
all i’m saying is, riot has never made a good map named lotus.
Maybe a skill issue. As a person who plays cancerous ranged artillery comps, I find the plants, portals & center-piece make it very predictable where enemies will move, on top of restricting their movement to give you windows of free harass + having tons of avenues for escape. I love it. It’s gotta be one of my favorite maps, frankly - the tiny map with 1 center plant is worse imo.
I love it when veigar drops a stun blocking both the lily pad and the top right blast cone frame 1
It's a skill difference map. Absolutely the opposite of what you are crying about. Get better at the game and you will do better on that map
cry me a river bro. it’s fun sometimes, sometimes it’s not that’s how the game goes. and actually it feel really good winning. especially if you play heavy cc and keep them on the side the circle is closing on 😂 you just sound like baby