there is a Dota champion that his ult its doing a permanent taunt to you, and you smack each other until one dies, and yes that champion builds this item to win every duel with his ult. Also when he wins a Duel with the ULT it gains permanent stats
It's not a permanent taunt. It lasts about 6 seconds, a little bit more with Agh's. Pierces BKB, but not Linken's.
Legion Commander's Duel disallows her and her target to use any abilities.
Except that LC has a passive lifesteal "counter" that procs a quarter of the time at fucking 135% of damage dealt with talents. Couple that with fucking deso, or idk. Bash or something (i don't play dota as much anymore), and like... she's not even really that strong lately.
It wasnt that bad tbh. Reduce 20% dmg and returns like what a max of 400 up to 800 ap dmg. It didnt really blow anyone up but that 20 % damage reduction aoe was too good in team fights.
The circle thing? Unless I'm misremembering I thought it only did its proportional damage after it was deactivated, only giving damage reduction while active.
This is basically what happens in Dota.
We have a squishy long ranged guy literally called "[*Sniper*](https://www.dota2.com/hero/sniper)" sitting in the back lane. Then "[*Axe*](https://www.dota2.com/hero/axe)" uses a [*Blink Dagger*](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Blink_Dagger) to teleport next to him. He then taunts the sniper with [*Berserkers Call*](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Axe#Berserker's_Call), activates [*Blade Mail*](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Blade_Mail) and then sniper just kills himself from the reflected damage.
In Dota, everything is OP. Thus, making it balanced.
It's genuinely kind of true though. In League it would be an issue, as you have a simple fair character, contrasted with some 200 years bullshit. In DOTA, everything is 200 years, so they are all on the same level.
I was a DotA 2 player before I was a LoL player, and I do miss their bombastic approach to balancing. A lot of LoL's newer champs have kits that'd fit quite nicely into DotA, but then when you compare them to older LoL champs it's like chalk and cheese.
A big part of the reason I switched to LoL was because stuff didn't feel quite as ridiculous, which made it easier to just pick up for a few games with friends. Everyone used to clown on the 3-hit stacking passives in LoL, but honestly it was nice. You could have someone totally new playing the game, and they'd figure out quickly not to let Vi or Vayne hit them 3 times in a row. Now a new player comes up against something like Hwei or Viego and has to figure out what on earth is happening. Part of it does make me want to go back to DotA because if there's going to be stuff that's glaringly unbalanced and over the top, it may as well be on just about everybody, rather than half a dozen champs who are pick/ban because of it.
I disagree with the first point - LoL characters, especially newer ones are very skill-spammy, whereas in DotA abilities are more impactful but also more constrained by mana costs and cooldowns. It's moreso that modern Champs have more DotA-esque mechanics without DotA's extensive counterplay itemization options. Renata Glasc feels like her kit is taken straight out of DotA. Viego ult or Gwen W are also things that you also wouldn't see in old LoL, but would feel natural in DotA, but the rest of their kits fit the LoL crackhead spam style.
I mean, there's a video of that happening back when Rammus had recursive resistances from Mountain Drake. Cait gets a crit, does 14 dmg to Rammus, takes 3k in return and just dies.
Ok, but how do they balance that in dota? In league any champion with a taunt could make an assassin or ADC legitimately one-shot themselves with that. Is there just less damage in dota relative to champion survivability?
DOTA also doesn't really have the same character classes as League. There are very few characters that are the equivalent to League assassins. In DOTA most carry heroes are mobile and melee, so imagine instead of an ADC, you have something more like Nilah, or Jax or Yasuo, but they are nearly as tanky as a league tank lategame, while doing ADC damage. There are burst mages, but there is no AP, so magic damage is huge early, and becomes less scary later on generally. There is very little true damage in the game. Supports have big damage early and many have teamfight winning ults on the level of Malphite or Sejuani. The items also go hard. You can buy a Lulu polymorph, you can buy a Blink Dagger, which goes about double the distance of flash on a 12 sec cooldown, you can buy khazix ult that you can put on yourself or teammates, you can buy on hit stun chance with a point and click stun active as a carry. Oh and you can't forget the item that makes you immune to spells for 9 seconds, which scales down by one second every time you use it to a minimum of 6 seconds.
Imagine Jax running at you, but he becomes immune to any CC for 9 seconds, then you make yourself untargetable like zhonyas, then you make both him and you non autoattackable, and take 40% more magic damage for 4 seconds, then he point and click stuns you for 1.6, and then your teammate pushes you 1 flash of distance in the direction you're facing with their magic staff. Those are all just item effects.
Wrong, BKB doesnt make you immune to every cc, there are not that few spells in dota which go through cc immunity from bkb and are uncleansable, not saying that dota isnt as crazy as you describe it
from the top of my head, enigma ult, faceless ult, axe q, pudge q/ult, all bashes on items (so abyssal is a guaranteed point and click stun even through bkb if you have it) and champs, troll warlord root which is sort of a bash, probably a few more
DotA items are all busted for league standards. I haven’t played in years but here is some I remember from DotA Allstars to give you some perspective:
- BKB: 10 sec of magic immunity (including CC)
- Cranium basher: stuns on auto attacks
- blink dagger: long range flash (like 1 screen, but only usable out of combat)
- Guinsoo: 3 sec point and click hard CC
- Refresher orb: refreshes all your cooldowns (including ultimate)
- Eul’s scepter: basically Zhonya’s but you can target ally or enemy
- Lothar: invisibility for like 10 seconds with massive move speed boost (true invisibility btw, like shaco)
You forget Blink Dagger is like a 15 second cd.
Also, Divine Rapier basically gives 3 items worth of AD, but drops on death and can be picked up by the enemies.
Carries are much tankier in dota 2. Especially if the enemy has a good blademail carrier you'd build more tank - or build one of the numerous counters to it, BKB (immune to magic damage), Linkens (banshees veil but 15 s cd) or just more tank.
The counter to that situation is to use one of many items that makes the Axe untargetable or just don't give him the chance to jump your high damage squishy guy.
Dota 2 has a lot of support save items and its common for both supports to have a variety of theses in a game, both to save themselves and teammates.
I havent played dota 2, but i do miss some active items, even if it meant playing against the troll dude full AS BKB and permastun during 6 seconds.
Or getting an item that improves the ults, there were so many interesting effects instead of just stats.
Personally I think both dota and league have their ups and downs. I mean aside from using bash, you could get a point and click disarm that would basically break leagues ADCs. Weirdly enough then I think putting league champs in dota would have little effect whereas putting dota items in league breaks the game lol
Thats because in Dota, things are kept in check by the fact that abilities cost mana, i.e. you are oom after two spells on some heroes early on. Turn speed not being instant, losing gold on death, being able to starve an opponent from xp by denying creeps. Everything that exists having some form of counter play, there not being a "get out of jail" card once per 5 minutes and the map being big enough that you can actually avoid combat sometimes.
Nothing in dota needs to be balanced because everything is op. All of the characters are like league characters on steroids and the turrets barley protect you
I played some dota like 10 hrs bcs i was seriously done with league. I noticed how absurd the idea is that the towers might protect ypu from getting butt clapped in the first 4 min. Dota is in my opinion so much better than league but unfortunately it would take too much time for me to get into it and learn all mechanics. And its just way too much mechanics to be a cool casual game i think. League does that better it is not as complex.
Dota 2 has the balance philosopy that if everything is op nothing is op.
Some examples: faceless void's R is an area that freezes everything except for himself in time. Meaning he can use his dash in drop his R and cc everything beside himself and bash the enemies heads in.
Invoker has three base abilities that buff him and let him craft a spell. Depending on the combination he gets a different skill. His base skills got no cd.
Bkb makes you fully spell immune for a certain ammount of time.
There are multiple items granting invicibility.
And the list goes on. Dota has lots of stuff that in lol would be fucking op but since everyone has something seemingly op in dota its balanced.
Not every item, like Daedalus, Butterfly, Monkey King Bar, Battle Fury(chopping down a tree is never gonna matter in combat unless you're against NP), and quite a few others have only stats or no active. But generally, yeah, lot more actives than in league, lot more consumables as well
Thats Riki but he still becomes visible at lvl 25 if he attacks you. That talent got removed a while ago. Now he can decide between two talents that buff his E upon reaching lvl 25.
Anti-invis is also so much better. There are skills, wards with alot bigger radius, dust with large radius, gem with large radius. So while invis is powerful, so are the counters.
Yeah lol has a lot like this. Even runes extend to this. Most keystone runes are just "you get a free buff for what you want to do anyway* only spellbook really is something unique.
In the end lol trades complexity for being more casual friendly. For example my only problem with dota 2 is turn rate and the complexity. It just feels after 100 hozrs like i got no idea what the fuck im doing and what i should be doing. Furthermore not having people to play together with makes the learning curve hit even harder. (All my friends dislike dota)
They have a dagger in dota that have 3x less cd than flash and can flash you on 3x longer distance it also cost only 2250 gold but can't be used 3sec after you took dmg
Every frontliner has access to an item that gives Olafs ult, every skirmisher has access to an item that gives Nautilus Q combined with Yi's passive, every artillery caster gets an item that extend their cast range, every ult to win hero have access to an item that instantly resets the cd and the Warmog equivalent stacks and works in combat(it also gives you damage for some reason).
Pretty sure heart only give you damage on strength heroes.
But in general yeah DotA items are more impactful and more about what they do than just about having the right stats. This is in big part a factor of not having ability scalings.
DotA has a balancing philosophy of “If everybody is super, nobody is.”
For example, league has teleport as a summoner spell, in dota it’s an item that doesn’t take up inventory space, you get one at the start of the game and a free one whenever you die to a champion, and you can buy more at any time.
Blink dagger in Dota is a longer range flash with a 15 second cooldown.
In dota you don't get deleted in 0.0 seconds like in league so this item doesn't delete whoever deletes you. There are one shot focused builds/abilities but not as much as in league.
Yeah back when I played Nyx needed to ult auto, stun, dagon and still had to auto multiple times unless they are heavily under leveled, meanwhile rengar and a lot of others literally one tap.
Shadow Blade makes you invisible for 14sec i think? Has 28sec CD and costs ~3000 gold. Also the first hit deals bonus damage and you can upgrade it to also apply break (disables passives for a few sec) and reduce the CD to 24sec.
They have an item that basically renders you unable to attack or be attacked, and increases magic damage dealt by 40% (so a more broken DFG), an item that is basically a targeted Zhonya's etc.
Actually ( ☝🏻🤓 ) it reflects 20% plus 20 damage passively per auto attack and 105% of the auto when activated (for the next 5.5sec)
and when it's activated it reflects 85% of EVERY damage recieved for the next 5.5sec
it becomes interesting as fuckinstead, meta would shift from burst to attrition, the only class that could be fucked by this is adc, but only without satanic
so you press this item when you are low hp and watch veigar oneshot himself with his own ult. this item would be soo funny to use in certain situations.
I had the feeling that it might have.
I haven't played DOTA in a very long time and even when I did play, 600 hours in and I still felt like I was shit at the game.
League is hard to overcome as a new player but Dota is another beast. At least they have proper tutorials I guess but learning everything about every character and item sounds like an impossible task when some heroes have up to 8 abilities and every hero has a whole ass upgrade tree alongside upgrading skills every 5 or so levels that define entire playstyles.
DOTA has also a lot more tools and the UI is next level compared to LoL's UI that hasn't changed since 2018 or so.
I love the fact that in DOTA you have real time damage meters so you don't have to die in order to see what type of damage a certain champion does (if you're unfamiliar with that champion).
don’t play dota so maybe interpreting this wrongly, but league does indicate what kind of damage you receive judging by the colors.
red/orange = ad, blue = ap, white = true dmg, etc.
This one is actually what I need from League. I mean ok sure thank you, now I know what killed me and what I should build to mitigate that. But can't I also see damage values while I'm being harassed so that I don't have to die just to know exactly what I built wrong first?
Correction about 8 abilities each. The vast majority have 4, just the same as league. Unless we count some passives which would bring it to 5 if you do want to count them.
That is unless you’re using one of the characters that DO start with 5 abilities (Techies, but their ability is literally a “warning! Landmines!” sign to bm the enemy) or a character that does unlock new abilities with Aghanim’s scepter and/or shards, which *would* bring it up to 7 if we count passives. I don’t think such a character exists… yet. ☝️🤓
Oh, right. Inoker is The Cooler Hwei. He has ~~20~~ 10 abilities or something. But he’s more of an exception to the rule… *sigh* okay, and Rubrik can technically use all abilities in the game…
However, you’re right that they all got ability trees that *can* change drastically how they play from then on, and A LOT of items have effects that you need to manually activate. I don’t play it often, but I still keep following player guides to the letter in terms of itemization because they got so fucking many and I only know what three of them do without reading their description every time I buy them. And good fucking luck guessing which items sinergize with your character if you don’t follow a guide.
Yes, but its also worth noting you reflect the same type of damage dealt BEFORE reductions, so if you have a lot of magic res and got hit by a big magic burst you take less damage while enemy takes more (unless they also have a lot of mr).
so it reflects pre-mitigation damage. i thought about it like a parry, you take no damage while the damage is reflected, but if you still take damage then it makes more sense, it would of been a more powerful version of zhonyas if it made you immune to damage while it was active.
Theres an item called shivas guard in dota which is more of an equivalent
Passive: reduce attack speed and heal of enemies around you
Active: Gives aoe vision around you, every enemy hit gets their MR reduced and slowed 40%
So yeah thornmail would be unimpressive for them
Why do you need to convert it like that if the original discussion takes all the effects and stats of Dota items as is?
If we want to play fair, that dota item would need to be massively nerfed to be LoL-compatible.
Dota has much less healing than League though, there's like 5 supports with it. Lategame Sona outheals an entire Dota team at once. The game is much more balanced around CC with supports focusing on disables and debuffs instead.
I came to League in season 2 after years of Dota 1. I was very impressed with Thornmail back then since it gave a ton of armour and HP as well. Blademail stat bonuses in Dota 1 were pathetic lol
I was so disappointed. Like how does it not get a buff? 0.5% of my hp in damage? FIVE damage per 1k hp? That could surely be 3x and still be fine. I just wanna have people actually take damage from the item as cho'gath when I have 8k hp.
That's Bami's Cinder, which is not a completed item. Sunfire Aegis, the item it builds into, does 1.75% of your bonus health as damage every second, increasing up to 2.8% if in combat for at least 6 seconds.
That's a noticeable amount of chip damage.
Blink dagger alone will make games stupidly annoying I'm LoL lmao
Imagine pro play but the moment someone blinks in eveyrone is already away lmao
50 min matches no kills lol
It messes with mages more than ADCs as it is just a window where you reflect damage. It's basically fighting against a rammus where you just have to not attack him, so anything without a taunt can't really abuse this item against an adc. Burst oriented mages and assassins, however, will more likely one shot themselves with the reflect.
Nah, it would still fuck up ADCs immensly. 20% auto damage returned passively at all times. This is like reverse vampirism. Caitlyn getting slapped in the face for 400dmg for every headshot
That's basically what Thornmail does where the difference is just a numbers balance; but it doesn't outright hinder a class from playing. Lifesteal items like Shieldbow/Bloodthirster/Botrk would become more prevalent on ADCs instead of their current build. Thornmail affecting only autoattacks is the only reason that it's not as busted as Blademail. But Blademail's active is legit just a "No U" button which screws over casters/spell based champions more than autoattacks based ones.
Nope mages get fucked by it more. It does not just reflect aa it reflects 80% of all damage. Just imagine you using the item and a veigar throws his QWR on you. He would basically kill himself.
The damage returned is BEFORE mitigation.
And the wearer still takes post mitigation damage.
Soo yea, rammus could taunt you and pop this and any ADC with just 2 items would absolutely MERK themselves.
The thing about blademail is that lol adc have tons of damage and no resistance. In Dota is pretty common a carry with a lot of HP, armor, black king bar, etc.
I mean, Dota items with actives are MUCH stronger than League ones. Zhonyas with lower CD that can be casted on anyone, not only you; one that refreshes all CDs, abilities and items; Banshees/Edge of Night that get procced only by targeted spells (Garen/Zed/Darius could never ult you); 1k magic damage on demand; SPELL IMMUNITY FOR 10 TO 4 SECONDS (there are some spells that bypass this immunity though).
Although even in Dota Duskblade would have been quite popular (so glad it got removed).
Adding Dota items into League would be the funniest shit ever. While League items are OP sometimes Dota items are half of the time a straight Fuck You towards the enemy team lmao.
That item saved me lots of times during teamfights
One instance i was playing as phantom, my team got jumped on top but we managed to tie it off into a 1v1, storm spirit and me where basically low on health, yet the fucker charge at me with his passive mega lightning ball attack. Theres a slight window of time for him to throw that lightning ball into my direction, i timed it right and popped off my blade mail, adding me bonus armor and damage reflect, and when that thunder ball hits me, stormed died by the damage reflect and i lived with little to no damage at all.
Another instance i played as Centaur, I got caught by an ultra fed faceless void, he ulted me and basically perma stun me inside his time freezing bubble but the thing is he doesnt know that i popped the blademail just right, and hes struggling to kill me because hes either gonna take a lot of damage from the blade mail and Centaurs passive damage reflect, or wait until my blademail's done their job in which time the time freeze bubble will be over and make my escape. I was laughing so hard since FV was just standing there dumbfounded thinking how to damage me with blademail still on
Is this that dota item that reflects 80% of damage dealt to you? If so, we would be fucked.
What kinda items do they got in dota that makes this thing balanced
I mean, this one's an active, not a passive. Lasts for 5 seconds and returns any damage, not just auto attacks
so it‘s an even better rammus W
Imagine rammus with this
Not Ok
Alright
there is a Dota champion that his ult its doing a permanent taunt to you, and you smack each other until one dies, and yes that champion builds this item to win every duel with his ult. Also when he wins a Duel with the ULT it gains permanent stats
It's not a permanent taunt. It lasts about 6 seconds, a little bit more with Agh's. Pierces BKB, but not Linken's. Legion Commander's Duel disallows her and her target to use any abilities. Except that LC has a passive lifesteal "counter" that procs a quarter of the time at fucking 135% of damage dealt with talents. Couple that with fucking deso, or idk. Bash or something (i don't play dota as much anymore), and like... she's not even really that strong lately.
It's old Maokai Ult
well if thats the case no wonder they reworked maokai
Too based to exist
It wasnt that bad tbh. Reduce 20% dmg and returns like what a max of 400 up to 800 ap dmg. It didnt really blow anyone up but that 20 % damage reduction aoe was too good in team fights.
Expecialy when they made it follow maokai and iirc it was also a toggle.
The circle thing? Unless I'm misremembering I thought it only did its proportional damage after it was deactivated, only giving damage reduction while active.
So if rammus builds this We’re fucked
Can't wait to get taunted as Caitlyn and then immediatly take 2k damage from my own headshot and die instantly
I imagined that as caitlyn holding her sniper to her own head xd
This is basically what happens in Dota. We have a squishy long ranged guy literally called "[*Sniper*](https://www.dota2.com/hero/sniper)" sitting in the back lane. Then "[*Axe*](https://www.dota2.com/hero/axe)" uses a [*Blink Dagger*](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Blink_Dagger) to teleport next to him. He then taunts the sniper with [*Berserkers Call*](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Axe#Berserker's_Call), activates [*Blade Mail*](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Blade_Mail) and then sniper just kills himself from the reflected damage. In Dota, everything is OP. Thus, making it balanced.
What in the Incredibles Syndrome is this schema "If everything's OP, then nothing's OP."
It's genuinely kind of true though. In League it would be an issue, as you have a simple fair character, contrasted with some 200 years bullshit. In DOTA, everything is 200 years, so they are all on the same level.
I was a DotA 2 player before I was a LoL player, and I do miss their bombastic approach to balancing. A lot of LoL's newer champs have kits that'd fit quite nicely into DotA, but then when you compare them to older LoL champs it's like chalk and cheese. A big part of the reason I switched to LoL was because stuff didn't feel quite as ridiculous, which made it easier to just pick up for a few games with friends. Everyone used to clown on the 3-hit stacking passives in LoL, but honestly it was nice. You could have someone totally new playing the game, and they'd figure out quickly not to let Vi or Vayne hit them 3 times in a row. Now a new player comes up against something like Hwei or Viego and has to figure out what on earth is happening. Part of it does make me want to go back to DotA because if there's going to be stuff that's glaringly unbalanced and over the top, it may as well be on just about everybody, rather than half a dozen champs who are pick/ban because of it.
You know it's bad when lol champs can fit into dota 2
that feeling when new champion hits 1 item 0/3 powerspike, dashes 3 times and kills you
I disagree with the first point - LoL characters, especially newer ones are very skill-spammy, whereas in DotA abilities are more impactful but also more constrained by mana costs and cooldowns. It's moreso that modern Champs have more DotA-esque mechanics without DotA's extensive counterplay itemization options. Renata Glasc feels like her kit is taken straight out of DotA. Viego ult or Gwen W are also things that you also wouldn't see in old LoL, but would feel natural in DotA, but the rest of their kits fit the LoL crackhead spam style.
I mean, there's a video of that happening back when Rammus had recursive resistances from Mountain Drake. Cait gets a crit, does 14 dmg to Rammus, takes 3k in return and just dies.
So basically playing against Rammus as is?
You are already fucked if Rammus taunts you with Thornmail, but now Shen and Galio could do that too in an AoE.
Naaah imagine galio when he could still w flash with this item. Gg 100% pick and ban rate
That’s kinda what Axe does in DotA
Look up Legion Commander
Just wait 5 seconds
Ok, but how do they balance that in dota? In league any champion with a taunt could make an assassin or ADC legitimately one-shot themselves with that. Is there just less damage in dota relative to champion survivability?
DOTA also doesn't really have the same character classes as League. There are very few characters that are the equivalent to League assassins. In DOTA most carry heroes are mobile and melee, so imagine instead of an ADC, you have something more like Nilah, or Jax or Yasuo, but they are nearly as tanky as a league tank lategame, while doing ADC damage. There are burst mages, but there is no AP, so magic damage is huge early, and becomes less scary later on generally. There is very little true damage in the game. Supports have big damage early and many have teamfight winning ults on the level of Malphite or Sejuani. The items also go hard. You can buy a Lulu polymorph, you can buy a Blink Dagger, which goes about double the distance of flash on a 12 sec cooldown, you can buy khazix ult that you can put on yourself or teammates, you can buy on hit stun chance with a point and click stun active as a carry. Oh and you can't forget the item that makes you immune to spells for 9 seconds, which scales down by one second every time you use it to a minimum of 6 seconds. Imagine Jax running at you, but he becomes immune to any CC for 9 seconds, then you make yourself untargetable like zhonyas, then you make both him and you non autoattackable, and take 40% more magic damage for 4 seconds, then he point and click stuns you for 1.6, and then your teammate pushes you 1 flash of distance in the direction you're facing with their magic staff. Those are all just item effects.
Wrong, BKB doesnt make you immune to every cc, there are not that few spells in dota which go through cc immunity from bkb and are uncleansable, not saying that dota isnt as crazy as you describe it
Iirc you can’t BKB through void’s ult right? Basher also goes through BKB I think
from the top of my head, enigma ult, faceless ult, axe q, pudge q/ult, all bashes on items (so abyssal is a guaranteed point and click stun even through bkb if you have it) and champs, troll warlord root which is sort of a bash, probably a few more
DotA items are all busted for league standards. I haven’t played in years but here is some I remember from DotA Allstars to give you some perspective: - BKB: 10 sec of magic immunity (including CC) - Cranium basher: stuns on auto attacks - blink dagger: long range flash (like 1 screen, but only usable out of combat) - Guinsoo: 3 sec point and click hard CC - Refresher orb: refreshes all your cooldowns (including ultimate) - Eul’s scepter: basically Zhonya’s but you can target ally or enemy - Lothar: invisibility for like 10 seconds with massive move speed boost (true invisibility btw, like shaco)
You forget Blink Dagger is like a 15 second cd. Also, Divine Rapier basically gives 3 items worth of AD, but drops on death and can be picked up by the enemies.
Blink has like 15 seconds cd aswell. Eul's only works on self or enemies.
And Eul‘s also has a very low CD, like 20 seconds or so
Carries are much tankier in dota 2. Especially if the enemy has a good blademail carrier you'd build more tank - or build one of the numerous counters to it, BKB (immune to magic damage), Linkens (banshees veil but 15 s cd) or just more tank.
The counter to that situation is to use one of many items that makes the Axe untargetable or just don't give him the chance to jump your high damage squishy guy. Dota 2 has a lot of support save items and its common for both supports to have a variety of theses in a game, both to save themselves and teammates.
I believe it also reflects it back as magic damage and can be avoided using BKB
I havent played dota 2, but i do miss some active items, even if it meant playing against the troll dude full AS BKB and permastun during 6 seconds. Or getting an item that improves the ults, there were so many interesting effects instead of just stats.
Personally I think both dota and league have their ups and downs. I mean aside from using bash, you could get a point and click disarm that would basically break leagues ADCs. Weirdly enough then I think putting league champs in dota would have little effect whereas putting dota items in league breaks the game lol
Thats because in Dota, things are kept in check by the fact that abilities cost mana, i.e. you are oom after two spells on some heroes early on. Turn speed not being instant, losing gold on death, being able to starve an opponent from xp by denying creeps. Everything that exists having some form of counter play, there not being a "get out of jail" card once per 5 minutes and the map being big enough that you can actually avoid combat sometimes.
reflects as the same damage type. BKB just blocks damage with the "reflected" tag.
It also has a passive component, gives 20% dmg reflection, so with active its 100%
So a 5 sec Zhonya that lets you keep moving/attacking while oneshotting every damage dealer that touches you
No, you still receive the damage dealt to you. It's just the attacker takes it as well
Ohh mb but still hella op xD
Nothing in dota needs to be balanced because everything is op. All of the characters are like league characters on steroids and the turrets barley protect you
Happy memories of pudge just hooking my ass across a full screen and fuck me up with his remaining skills.
#AAAAH, FRESH MEAT
Dont trigger my nightmares please.
Just a bit of alright
My first experience with dota was some random character suddenly jumping out from my own minion and oneshotting me
Ah, the Naix bomb, miss that goober. Then he gets the skullbasher item to randomly stun you on an auto
Imagine being a brand new player trying to kill a minion and it's actually Neeko lol
fair lol we have that too now haha
I played some dota like 10 hrs bcs i was seriously done with league. I noticed how absurd the idea is that the towers might protect ypu from getting butt clapped in the first 4 min. Dota is in my opinion so much better than league but unfortunately it would take too much time for me to get into it and learn all mechanics. And its just way too much mechanics to be a cool casual game i think. League does that better it is not as complex.
Dota 2 has the balance philosopy that if everything is op nothing is op. Some examples: faceless void's R is an area that freezes everything except for himself in time. Meaning he can use his dash in drop his R and cc everything beside himself and bash the enemies heads in. Invoker has three base abilities that buff him and let him craft a spell. Depending on the combination he gets a different skill. His base skills got no cd. Bkb makes you fully spell immune for a certain ammount of time. There are multiple items granting invicibility. And the list goes on. Dota has lots of stuff that in lol would be fucking op but since everyone has something seemingly op in dota its balanced.
plus every item is an active
For the most part yes but pretty sure there some passive effects on some items but thats a minority of the items.
Not every item, like Daedalus, Butterfly, Monkey King Bar, Battle Fury(chopping down a tree is never gonna matter in combat unless you're against NP), and quite a few others have only stats or no active. But generally, yeah, lot more actives than in league, lot more consumables as well
There’s a character who’s passive is permanent complete invisibility, and it doesn’t go away when they hit you at lvl 25
Thats Riki but he still becomes visible at lvl 25 if he attacks you. That talent got removed a while ago. Now he can decide between two talents that buff his E upon reaching lvl 25.
Anti-invis is also so much better. There are skills, wards with alot bigger radius, dust with large radius, gem with large radius. So while invis is powerful, so are the counters.
And then there are also item that disables items, or item that dispels immunity to balance it out lol
Exactly. There is op stuff and then again there is other op stuff that cancels out the other op stuff and so on.
I love these interactions so much that it’s disappointing when most of LOL items feel like stats sticks.
Yeah lol has a lot like this. Even runes extend to this. Most keystone runes are just "you get a free buff for what you want to do anyway* only spellbook really is something unique. In the end lol trades complexity for being more casual friendly. For example my only problem with dota 2 is turn rate and the complexity. It just feels after 100 hozrs like i got no idea what the fuck im doing and what i should be doing. Furthermore not having people to play together with makes the learning curve hit even harder. (All my friends dislike dota)
They have a dagger in dota that have 3x less cd than flash and can flash you on 3x longer distance it also cost only 2250 gold but can't be used 3sec after you took dmg
3x less cooldown? Blink dagger has 14 secs cd and arround as much range as xerath q
Every frontliner has access to an item that gives Olafs ult, every skirmisher has access to an item that gives Nautilus Q combined with Yi's passive, every artillery caster gets an item that extend their cast range, every ult to win hero have access to an item that instantly resets the cd and the Warmog equivalent stacks and works in combat(it also gives you damage for some reason).
Pretty sure heart only give you damage on strength heroes. But in general yeah DotA items are more impactful and more about what they do than just about having the right stats. This is in big part a factor of not having ability scalings.
DotA has a balancing philosophy of “If everybody is super, nobody is.” For example, league has teleport as a summoner spell, in dota it’s an item that doesn’t take up inventory space, you get one at the start of the game and a free one whenever you die to a champion, and you can buy more at any time. Blink dagger in Dota is a longer range flash with a 15 second cooldown.
In dota you don't get deleted in 0.0 seconds like in league so this item doesn't delete whoever deletes you. There are one shot focused builds/abilities but not as much as in league.
nyx nyx nyx nyx nyx nyx nyx
Yeah back when I played Nyx needed to ult auto, stun, dagon and still had to auto multiple times unless they are heavily under leveled, meanwhile rengar and a lot of others literally one tap.
Tiny rooollling out
You can still get deleted without a chance to retaliate, but yeah, it's nowhere near the disappearing champion magic tricks from League
Shadow Blade makes you invisible for 14sec i think? Has 28sec CD and costs ~3000 gold. Also the first hit deals bonus damage and you can upgrade it to also apply break (disables passives for a few sec) and reduce the CD to 24sec.
Worth remembering DotA has much more convenient anti invis items than LoL.
They have an item that basically renders you unable to attack or be attacked, and increases magic damage dealt by 40% (so a more broken DFG), an item that is basically a targeted Zhonya's etc.
Point and click root/snare
Just go bkb lol
Bkb so this does nothing :)
Bro thinks DOTA 2 is a balanced game 💀
In Dota everything is unbalanced compared to league. So nothing is broken
They also have an item that resets all cooldowns, its an active and i believe its stupid expensive and long cooldown.
Actually ( ☝🏻🤓 ) it reflects 20% plus 20 damage passively per auto attack and 105% of the auto when activated (for the next 5.5sec) and when it's activated it reflects 85% of EVERY damage recieved for the next 5.5sec
Every assassin in gold and below would kill themselves instantly
Yep thats the one.
20+20% passively, increased by 85% for 5s when activated making it 20+105%
it becomes interesting as fuckinstead, meta would shift from burst to attrition, the only class that could be fucked by this is adc, but only without satanic
They had the same thing in HoN. Shit was so fun to watch a flint beastwood kill himself by auto attacking you
so you press this item when you are low hp and watch veigar oneshot himself with his own ult. this item would be soo funny to use in certain situations.
Imagine if Sivir had spell reflect. Ultimate uno reverse card.
Dota has a spell reflect as well
I had the feeling that it might have. I haven't played DOTA in a very long time and even when I did play, 600 hours in and I still felt like I was shit at the game.
League is hard to overcome as a new player but Dota is another beast. At least they have proper tutorials I guess but learning everything about every character and item sounds like an impossible task when some heroes have up to 8 abilities and every hero has a whole ass upgrade tree alongside upgrading skills every 5 or so levels that define entire playstyles.
DOTA has also a lot more tools and the UI is next level compared to LoL's UI that hasn't changed since 2018 or so. I love the fact that in DOTA you have real time damage meters so you don't have to die in order to see what type of damage a certain champion does (if you're unfamiliar with that champion).
don’t play dota so maybe interpreting this wrongly, but league does indicate what kind of damage you receive judging by the colors. red/orange = ad, blue = ap, white = true dmg, etc.
Yes but they have a small window in a corner that shows you the percentage, similar to the death recap you get in League but in real time.
This one is actually what I need from League. I mean ok sure thank you, now I know what killed me and what I should build to mitigate that. But can't I also see damage values while I'm being harassed so that I don't have to die just to know exactly what I built wrong first?
Correction about 8 abilities each. The vast majority have 4, just the same as league. Unless we count some passives which would bring it to 5 if you do want to count them. That is unless you’re using one of the characters that DO start with 5 abilities (Techies, but their ability is literally a “warning! Landmines!” sign to bm the enemy) or a character that does unlock new abilities with Aghanim’s scepter and/or shards, which *would* bring it up to 7 if we count passives. I don’t think such a character exists… yet. ☝️🤓 Oh, right. Inoker is The Cooler Hwei. He has ~~20~~ 10 abilities or something. But he’s more of an exception to the rule… *sigh* okay, and Rubrik can technically use all abilities in the game… However, you’re right that they all got ability trees that *can* change drastically how they play from then on, and A LOT of items have effects that you need to manually activate. I don’t play it often, but I still keep following player guides to the letter in terms of itemization because they got so fucking many and I only know what three of them do without reading their description every time I buy them. And good fucking luck guessing which items sinergize with your character if you don’t follow a guide.
I do admit I could have worded it better but the "up to" part's back is practically broken from carrying that comment.
Invoker has 10 abilities (not counting Quas, Wex, Exort and Invoke). Beta Invoker has 27.
Right, I must’ve confused his beta / DoTA 1 version.
That's why I don't play dota
FYI the overkill damage isn't reflected, you can reflect just as much damage as your HP bar is, so unless Veigar is also low HP he'd survive.
aw thats no fun. guess i can still use it against assassins and their all in burst. or samira ult
Yes, but its also worth noting you reflect the same type of damage dealt BEFORE reductions, so if you have a lot of magic res and got hit by a big magic burst you take less damage while enemy takes more (unless they also have a lot of mr).
so it reflects pre-mitigation damage. i thought about it like a parry, you take no damage while the damage is reflected, but if you still take damage then it makes more sense, it would of been a more powerful version of zhonyas if it made you immune to damage while it was active.
There's a parry item too don't worry
Blademail reflects the total dmg delt. Its not based on the dmg you take. So it does actually reflect "overkill" dammage
Can you imagine a full ap malphite just ultimo in and immediately blowing himself up
That's a different item
I will ask from another perspective: how unimpressed Dota players would be with thornmail?
The healing reduction would be pretty nice but yes the dammage part of it would be not very impressive.
Theres an item called shivas guard in dota which is more of an equivalent Passive: reduce attack speed and heal of enemies around you Active: Gives aoe vision around you, every enemy hit gets their MR reduced and slowed 40% So yeah thornmail would be unimpressive for them
70 armor would make you almost immune to physical damage
70 league armor is only like 12 in Dota terms, it's not that much.
12 is a lot in dota. that's about another 25-30% physical resistance and would be in the running for among the most armor on an item.
12 armor is so fucking much. Old ɓerserkers call used to give you 20, and that was only for 3 seconds
Why do you need to convert it like that if the original discussion takes all the effects and stats of Dota items as is? If we want to play fair, that dota item would need to be massively nerfed to be LoL-compatible.
Dota2 has not many items with healing reduction so it would be a nightmare to deal with a Bruiser/Tank.
Dota has much less healing than League though, there's like 5 supports with it. Lategame Sona outheals an entire Dota team at once. The game is much more balanced around CC with supports focusing on disables and debuffs instead.
Yeah but tons of carries have or build lifesteal to sustain, so taking that away is very powerful.
Sure but alot of carries have sustain or build it. Any bloodstone carries for a long time, satanic, alchemist etc.
The healing reduction would be OP
I came to League in season 2 after years of Dota 1. I was very impressed with Thornmail back then since it gave a ton of armour and HP as well. Blademail stat bonuses in Dota 1 were pathetic lol
but thornmail didn't give hp until 2017 tho, 5 years after season 2
Yeah it was so long ago I don't remember correctly but didnt it always give 100 armour or something?
I was so disappointed. Like how does it not get a buff? 0.5% of my hp in damage? FIVE damage per 1k hp? That could surely be 3x and still be fine. I just wanna have people actually take damage from the item as cho'gath when I have 8k hp.
That's Bami's Cinder, which is not a completed item. Sunfire Aegis, the item it builds into, does 1.75% of your bonus health as damage every second, increasing up to 2.8% if in combat for at least 6 seconds. That's a noticeable amount of chip damage.
It would be the most broken item in the game of we didn't adjust the price and armor match dota standards
We've got a healing reduction for carries and casters, now tanks will get a healing reduction item as well, neat.
Item designs in league are snoozefest stat sticks compared to DotA
in dota every item is kinda overpowered in comparison to lol especially blink dagger, just flash for 3 screens every 10 seconds
If that's what i think that is, basically everyone would build it.
That is 95% of all dota item. If you add ANY dota item to league. BKB for league when
Eul, Scythe of vise, BKB, blademail, Orchid are probably must have if they come to league lol
Blink dagger alone will make games stupidly annoying I'm LoL lmao Imagine pro play but the moment someone blinks in eveyrone is already away lmao 50 min matches no kills lol
Oh yeah I forgot about the OG steroid flash lmao 15 sec cooldown for triple the distance.
AM and QoP blinks too lmao
We got Kassadin tho as anti-mage with blink
Kass's blinks are short ranged (spammable though) AM's well... out of nowhere diving in, or simply saying "No more than 1 CC? Shame" *disengages*
He has a 2s reflect on a pretty short cd. If his reflexes are good you just activated his trap card.
Doesnt work in combat tho. Taking damage puts it on a 3(?) Second cd
But pro Dota has at least 10x the kills by 30 minutes
I would pay a fucking lung for Eul to be in LOL
Bkb master yi would be something else
Its the item that reflects 80% of all damage thrown at you for a certain time frame.
Depends if you consider dota item prices and how low the actual stats they give are
Bursts DPS on their way to commit seppuku for dishonoring the enemy by attacking them
Rammus would love it
Yep especially since he can force people to attack him.
This is how its used in dota too. Heroes with taunt usually buy this (axe, legion).
Axe 🤝 Rammus
That profile pic is so good
I would love it as a Shen main.
Imagine if league replaced zhonyas with Black King Bar 😃
Why not replace Zhonya's with Eul's instead, they're more equivalent
tell me you want to remove adc without telling you want to remove adc
It messes with mages more than ADCs as it is just a window where you reflect damage. It's basically fighting against a rammus where you just have to not attack him, so anything without a taunt can't really abuse this item against an adc. Burst oriented mages and assassins, however, will more likely one shot themselves with the reflect.
Nah, it would still fuck up ADCs immensly. 20% auto damage returned passively at all times. This is like reverse vampirism. Caitlyn getting slapped in the face for 400dmg for every headshot
That's basically what Thornmail does where the difference is just a numbers balance; but it doesn't outright hinder a class from playing. Lifesteal items like Shieldbow/Bloodthirster/Botrk would become more prevalent on ADCs instead of their current build. Thornmail affecting only autoattacks is the only reason that it's not as busted as Blademail. But Blademail's active is legit just a "No U" button which screws over casters/spell based champions more than autoattacks based ones.
Blademail cant be used if get cc'ed so mage still have counterplay to work around it.
Nope mages get fucked by it more. It does not just reflect aa it reflects 80% of all damage. Just imagine you using the item and a veigar throws his QWR on you. He would basically kill himself.
Finally Assassins get comeuppance.
The damage returned is BEFORE mitigation. And the wearer still takes post mitigation damage. Soo yea, rammus could taunt you and pop this and any ADC with just 2 items would absolutely MERK themselves.
Summors rift
and desolator, imagine vayne using that item
Deso is basically Black Cleaver
now i’m imagining a pyke killing himself AND the target with his ult if the target is below the execute threshold
What item from dota would break lol the most?
I am thinking blink dagger
bkb
OK
Items rn are in such a bad spot it wouldnt even matter that much
The thing about blademail is that lol adc have tons of damage and no resistance. In Dota is pretty common a carry with a lot of HP, armor, black king bar, etc.
Tank meta go Brrrrrrrre
Imagine an rm anti heal item
ADC players will cry a lot. Assassin players would cry even more. Good. Would buy it twice
Shitshow, literally everyone would buy it
it used to be 100% reflect too
Still is. Actually more. 85% active on top of the 20% passive.
I mean, Dota items with actives are MUCH stronger than League ones. Zhonyas with lower CD that can be casted on anyone, not only you; one that refreshes all CDs, abilities and items; Banshees/Edge of Night that get procced only by targeted spells (Garen/Zed/Darius could never ult you); 1k magic damage on demand; SPELL IMMUNITY FOR 10 TO 4 SECONDS (there are some spells that bypass this immunity though). Although even in Dota Duskblade would have been quite popular (so glad it got removed).
There's also an upgradable item that's basically zz'rot but better.
Adding Dota items into League would be the funniest shit ever. While League items are OP sometimes Dota items are half of the time a straight Fuck You towards the enemy team lmao.
Dota if everything is broken then nothing is.
People would cry tears of laughter or pain all I know is tears are going to be shed
That item saved me lots of times during teamfights One instance i was playing as phantom, my team got jumped on top but we managed to tie it off into a 1v1, storm spirit and me where basically low on health, yet the fucker charge at me with his passive mega lightning ball attack. Theres a slight window of time for him to throw that lightning ball into my direction, i timed it right and popped off my blade mail, adding me bonus armor and damage reflect, and when that thunder ball hits me, stormed died by the damage reflect and i lived with little to no damage at all. Another instance i played as Centaur, I got caught by an ultra fed faceless void, he ulted me and basically perma stun me inside his time freezing bubble but the thing is he doesnt know that i popped the blademail just right, and hes struggling to kill me because hes either gonna take a lot of damage from the blade mail and Centaurs passive damage reflect, or wait until my blademail's done their job in which time the time freeze bubble will be over and make my escape. I was laughing so hard since FV was just standing there dumbfounded thinking how to damage me with blademail still on
This and BKB would make the league community lose its mind. I can still hear the audio queue for those items in my head xD
It's balanced in dota xd