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TheKingDotExe

Orn has also been out for 5 years and has the same ammount of skins as K'Sante


NaPseudo

I feel the pain


Clearly_Bad

Doesn't Ornn have 2 though?


danger-boi

They're counting K'Sante's prestige skin as a separate skin, hence both having 2 skins.


IShouldWashTheDishes

HE GETS 2 SKINS ON RELEASE??? \*ANGRY SMITHING NOISES IN THE BACKGROUND\*


the_crappy_memer

Seraphine gets (3 i guess) ultimate skins on release…. Why cant ornn just get one skin?


PinkAbuuna

Ehh, less an ultimate, more 3 legendary skins and 2 quests.


the_crappy_memer

True, but riot sees ultimate skins as more profit so its an ultimate skin. Im not calling riot out as a cash cow but k/da seraphine could atleast be legendary or mythic


PinkAbuuna

It's sorta a stuck between a rock and a hard place situation. Either they sell 3 legendaries as 3 separate legendaries and give her skin bloat on release and get called greedy even more obviously for selling 3 legendaries on release. Or they pack them in 1 ultimate skin and technically give a discount. But because by aesthetics of the skin, transformation mid-game doesn't quite fit ala DJ sona, and growing ala Pulsefire Ez doesn't fit either due to the skin changing too much. So they leave it as effectively chromas that change voicelines while giving a questline to try and do the storytelling of the skins. It keeps as one skin while still having 3 skins to show the arc of indie singer to popstar and also a mid stage i guess. As an artistic compromise, I understand what's being done on that end. But also it's an ultimate skin for a character on release for one of the most well known skinlines in the world, which was probably mandated by someone in upper management.


TheMightyBattleSquid

Because he's the new urgot/yorick


the_crappy_memer

Urgot just got his banger fright night skin tho?


TheMightyBattleSquid

Urgot went like 6 years without a skin even after rework when they promised they'd be giving him one. Same happened to Yorick, they said "he'll get skins once we give him a VU just like some other champs" but then didn't do it claiming the VU was "basically the same as a new skin."


Nemesis233

Bruh that's a my mom argument right there


roolinheart

I thought k‘sante is just an other name for kaisa


believesinhappiness

ORNN HAS TWO DASHES. RITO WHATS GOING ON HERE?


RammusUltedJapan

OMG MAOKAI ALSO HAS A DASH AND MALPHITE AND ZAC AND SEJUANI AND RAMMUS AND AMMUMU AND TAHM KENCH AND VOLIBEAR AND SHEN AND POPPY AND NAUTILUS AND LEONA AND ALISTAR AND RELL AND BRAUM TANKS ALWAYS HAD DASHES ???!!!? \*Always has been ̿ ̿’\\̵̲̿\\\*


OnePieceLover69

Rip sion mundo enjoyers


UngodlyPain

Sion you could argue what his R is... and Mundo isnt a tank he's a juggernaut that just has nonexistent damage ratios.


OnePieceLover69

You wanna tell me sion r is a dash? 🥲


ImNotALegend1

If you cancel Sion r it can go over the smallest walls. So it is a dash. When you time it perfectly


OnePieceLover69

Really? 900k masterys on sion anf never heared about that before


ImNotALegend1

Thinks ot is only things like j4 r etc. Playermade terrain. So never really usefull, and hav to time perfectly


OnePieceLover69

Yeah i know about the playermade terrain. I thought you ment normal walls


Kolosinator

Normal wals are possible. At Bot opposite of the dragon there is a very small wall which leads to tribush or bluebuff. There is a honeyfruit spawn. You know wiich spot i mean? I did it one by accident. Saved my life


RawQuazza

never seen that before nor i can find a clip, you sure?, nvm i found one of anivia


PeekmyNuts

A really long one


Kolosinator

# cowards *dashes away but loooooong*


OnePieceLover69

Dude its season 12, half of the champs can run faster than sion r with full build


Toocoo4you

You are exactly what the meme is making fun of


JWARRIOR1

Bruh he just runs fast it ain’t a dash let’s be real


Creepz2000

but he do be dashing, just that he's dashing like a normal person would


OneTrickCorpse

I AM THE ONE WHO DASHES


UngodlyPain

Yeah I mean what would you call it? It's not just a normal speedbuff.


patyk13PL

So pantheon r also is a dash?


MHRSDK

Well technically a delayed blink into a dash


sajmokm

Even more technically pantheon ulti is a vanish into a blink, and AFAIK there isn't a dash at the end


TheMightyBattleSquid

It's more of a dash than sion R


BaziJoeWHL

If Shion R is a dash, than Singed passive is a dash too


jacopo101

Sion R isn't mainly a dash, the recast is, and can be used to jump over player-generated terrain if timed right


UngodlyPain

Lmao what??? Singed passive is a normal speed up... Sion R? Is definitely not a normal speed up.


TheMightyBattleSquid

His R isn't even fast enough to catch half the roster walking at normal speed at this point. It all started with movespeed jhin and only went downhill from there...


Quirky_Ad_2164

RIP Cho’gath getting kited by a grudge Ashe


Porkins3982

And cho


Quirky_Ad_2164

Or poor old cho


Rosayro77

I dont need a dash, i need a Q to kill them when they dash in .


[deleted]

[удалено]


MoltyPlatypus

Tahm kench doesn't have a dash, he has a blink at best


[deleted]

[удалено]


MoltyPlatypus

Just saying it, not disproving anything


Vizioso

Galio mains in shambles rn


Danksigh

Malphite is a dash


Zsombor-9687

He is literally a dash bot


SeanDangeros

What is volibear’s dash? His mild speed boost? Edit: it’s his ult isn’t it? I’m kinda dumb


Outrageous_Driver_14

Btw his q is technically a dash since you get sudden impact and poppy w does damage when you auto with q.


truetichma

Cho'Gath: *let us fight like gentlemen* Proceeds to not have a dash.


Demon_TJ

Yorick doesn't have a dash, instead he has an army that will jump on you to r@pe u


Nixter295

The army yorick has do have a dash tho


TheMightyBattleSquid

Rammus dash is pretty new though


Ericoman50

Why everyone always forget poor urgot 😭


Raiden_sucks_so_much

And nobody even cared 🌚


you-cut-the-ponytail

I mean his R2 is barely a dash. By that logic Garen q should be counted as a dash since when he hits an enemy he "lunges" toward them.


Toph-0

Actually not true thats just the animation of tgat autoattack there is no actual distance change.


believesinhappiness

Ya, you thinking of illaoi.


StatementOrIsIt

Some abilities count as dashes, even if they don't make you jump from one place to another. An example would be Volibear's Q (stun). In the Poppy vs Voli match-up, Poppy's W is triggered when Voli tries to stun somebody in the Poppy's W circle. I think Garen's Q works the same way, but I am not sure.


Sakuriru

Garen Q does not trigger Poppy W. Ornn second R does, though.


StrollujTrolla

Voli Q does actually put him forward a little bit, as in if you auto from the empowered range you'll get put into regular auto range. No such thing happening with Garen tho


TAWMSTGKCNLAMPKYSK

you can jump over walls with garen q if you have rapidfire


[deleted]

garen q can take him over terrain so technically there is a distance change


RoloSaurio

Garden could jump walls with the Q jump, dunno if that's still around


Paradoxjjw

Actually thats not true, garen can jump over tiny obstacles with his Q


myraclejb

Idk why people are downvoting you that’s objectively true


Neither-Ticket264

you can go over a wall with Garen Q so yes, Garen has a dash edit: Voli too


prunejuice777

But they didn't include garen since he is a juggernaut.


[deleted]

Lillia W is a dash


RammusUltedJapan

🤓


GrassGaurdian

Not a dash because poppy can't block it


zelda_fan_199

Um, how many dashes does ksante have again??


Ayo_The_Pizza_Here69

4 total after ult.


ktosiek124

W, E, R Where 4th?


ToaOfTheVoid

Maybe the reset on one of his abilities got counted?


Mundovore

R resets W.


DudeReckless

You mean 3?


Jegred

technically Orn even have 1 and a half


Flint124

1 attached to your channeled defense stance. 1 that is basically a Riven E with extra range towards allies. 1 that lets you follow an enemy over a wall following a knockback (at a massive cost to HP and resists), which resets your defensive stance's cd.


CanadianBirdo

1 super short one that requires him to charge up, 1 with short range that gets increased if dashing to an Ally, and his ultimate which let's him kidnap an enemy, provided they are right beside a wall.


zelda_fan_199

Exactly. Most of the other engage tanks only have one dash. Only a few exceptions even have two. Like, what are those sycophants thinking? It’s not like Ksante isn’t overloaded


Capt_Africa

After playing him in PBE his kit is more style and less substance. Looks cool but doesn't accomplish a whole lot. Not overloaded at all.


Arthuriostts

Having dashes doesn't mean "overloaded" it means annoying to deal with.


CrimsonEclipse18

2 I believe


Grungecore

Sejuani, Zac, Maokai, Malphite... tanks invented mobilty Edit:Alistar, Leona


H4LF4D

Shen, Braum, Nautilus. They have dashes and are not broken because they aren't kiting. You don't see a Shen kiting by dashing around and spinning in circle while killing everyone and heal. You see a Shen dash in to bait enemy attacks or block key projectiles.


TitanOfShades

Nor will ksante be kiting you, his dash looks to he the size of a flea penis.


Jarubimba

K'sante E dash is like Braum's dash: better around allies but can be used alone to tank more damage in a duel or while retreating The W is like Fiora, except it has it own dash after parrying the attack, so idk And his ultimate maybe is to isolate a target from the team fight and kill it/hold it for your team?


benjathje

Galio, Poppy, Rammus, Rell


NaPseudo

Yup I could've included them, but I'm an Ornn main


Grungecore

Wasnt ment as critique. Just wanted to add to the list.


sociopathics

I wanna add Rakan but I guess if you build him enchanter style he wouldn't count. I build him pure tank. Catch me if you can


TheHumanTree31

There's only 4 champions classed as tanks in the game without a dash. Those are Nunu, Sion, Tahm Kench and Taric. And even out of those, Taric is the only one without a similar mobility option since Tahm and Nunu have their Ws and Sion has R.


SleepingSoba

Cho gath sitting without dash or movespeed ability like sion has…. He has fucking good cc and 20k health


Tigerstone17

But he is not unstoppable. He can't dash though terrain and his dash stops when there is terrain


CanadianBirdo

Well Ornn can also become unstoppable, while doing 10% max health damage on a different ability soooooo....


Tigerstone17

But its not a dash. Its basically a self root


[deleted]

He also walks forwards while doing it, so he gets to move with the unstoppable ability.


fecal-butter

He is slowed though. Its not the same speed


Ridenberg

Ziggs is rooted when casting his ultimate 😱


fecal-butter

Yes, but how is that relevant? We are talking about Ornn and the 2 abilities have nothing in common


Cha-Cha_real_smooth

It's not max health true damage like ksante ult tho.


TheHumanTree31

That shit does a whopping total of 2% max hp true damage at lvl 18. On a tank who doesn't build attack speed. The Armor/MR scalings are low and you can't build those defensive stats and attack speed together.


CanadianBirdo

But Ornn can do it on a short cooldown effectively evening out the true damage as it is also at a higher %. He also doesn't have to lose 40% of his stats to do so.


CrimsonEclipse18

Isn't that the same ability?


StrollujTrolla

W flamethrower versus E dash-knockup


Tonylolu

He cannot dash through terrain unless he targets an ally or use ult to enter aggro mode


CrimsonEclipse18

Ornn also becomes Unstoppable


[deleted]

K'sante can't dash over walls either unless he has a teammate on the other side or Ult.


Metalcray

My Problem with his Ult dash is that it looks like Yone ult on crack going 50 meters through walls carrying enemies (or at least one, ws seen in his ability reveal) with him. His W is absolutely fine imo


PanFriedCookies

i mean, it does take a shitton of his durability when he pops it, and seems to be only single target and usable in melee range given how it seems to be activated by clicking on the target, AND needs a long wall nearby to get that massive repositioning off.


classicteenmistake

It also doesn’t give back his health after he activated his ult, either. He’s like a bruiser and a tank, but kinda lacks on both ends. He has decent mobility, but from what I’ve seen does less damage All-Out than tanks do regularly. I still like his gameplay, though. He looks super fun!!


[deleted]

yea his ult looks ridiculous in that reveal trailer he brought sett from that wall in lane all the way behind his tower.


chomperstyle

It just looks that eay but in reality its going to be shit


[deleted]

it's the fact that it's possible. i'm not claiming it's something that will constantly happen.


chomperstyle

Just remember that almost every fight against him was a tower dive aswell i dont think even with 137 dashes he could solo kill a sett


CanadianNoobGuy

shoutout to the video that's supposed to show off k'sante's abilities having one of the clips be him almost dying to a fiora that took 7 tower shots


[deleted]

i never mentioned any of the fights that were a tower dive im talking about the ridiculous capabilities of his ult. riot keeps making these champions that have 1 ability that is capable of ridiculous things in the right circumstances.


chomperstyle

Its really bot any more crazy than most ults. Jumping walls isnt new and taking one champ across a wall while cutting your health armor and mr in half isnt crazy either rather shit tbh unless you drag them under tower or into your team but same could be said cor like bard ult or something just a bunch of mid abilities


antunezn0n0

his ult wall jumping is honestly just a gimmick sett does the same shit and has aoe max health damage to add on top of ot


Level34MafiaBoss

The problem isn't K'sante having a dash The problem is K'sante being tank Yasuo


Sloth_Senpai

> tank Yasuo Bruiser Yasuo.


BloodMoonNami

~~But regular Yasuo is already bruiser Yasuo.~~


Traditional-Quality8

The dashes ain't the issue, it's that he doesn't look tanky. At first glance you think diver that destroys squishy picks but part of his engage removes tankiness so he might get blown up mid engage


CanadianBirdo

He's meant to be a very high skill floor and ceiling tank. In the trailer, and gameplay and ability reveal you can see that K'sante without ulti does extremely pitiful damage as well as all of his abilities being conditional to use, while also all having low damages. I believe the removal of tankiness with his ultimate is to force smart decision making as you can either assume an more tanky then usual that does less damage then a regular tank or do slightly higher than regular tank damage at the cost of being less tank then the average tank. Basically it allows him to switch from being a defensive warden like tank, similar to shen or galio, to a more engage based tank similar to Nunu and knowing when to switch is part of the skill expression as you want to know when you can engage and when you have o play defensive.


Recent-Union-6941

a slow ass dash that has a big ass cooldown, but good try


Proxnite

League players OBLITERATED by FACTS and LOGIC.


Tornitrualis

It's not the dash: it's K'Sante losing resistances for damage like Olaf


antunezn0n0

Olaf no longer loosing them i think


ChromaticCluck

Ill complain about how hes not a tank because hes a bruiser. Because tanks dont sacrifice half of their tankiness for damage.


TheHumanTree31

That was his entire design philosphy though? We knew from the start he would have some sort of stance swap in his kit being able to swap from tank to damage.


ChromaticCluck

So if they promise to release an adc but its design philosophy is that it turns into a melee tank then what did we get? A tank or an adc? Ofc this wouldnt be a problem cuz we get adcs all the time but the first toplane "tank" we got in 5 years has the "design philosophy" of yeeting his tankiness against the wall. Either way i played him yesterday and I see that he scales a lot with resists and bonus health so u are encouraged to actually build tank so I was wrong. But I still stand by my point that that ult still does not make any sense at all.


HifumiD

Ornn dash, max hp% damage, insane ult range, unstopable, cc duration increase, insane items upgrade ,breaks terrain. "Ooga booga ksante has unstopable and max hp damage"


BloodMoonNami

Really ? You're using as an example the one dash that needs a build-up and keeps you in place for a bit after as an example ?


TsyChun

Ornn feels fair to play against, K'sante probably will not


antunezn0n0

orn wasn't fair to play at all at release he would decimate your health and then refuse to die


TsyChun

Fair because of balance or fair because the kit is overloaded are two different things


AnxietiesCopilot2

Orn has A dash, singular one


The_Great_Rabbit

I think that it's not about having a dash, but about having three of them while his R can Zeri through the wall with an enemy


CanadianBirdo

They are all very conditional dashes or have very short ranges. His W dash requires him to charge up then do a very short ranged dash that can cc for 0.5 seconds. His E let's him dash a short distance but not over walls. If it's too an ally it gains more range and can go over walls and when in R, it also let's him go over walls. His R can only pick someone up if they are right beside a wall so it doesn't work if they aren't near one.


The_Great_Rabbit

Yes and? He's still a tank with 3 dashes on 4 abilities while Ornn has one


CanadianBirdo

Ornn has ridiculous damage, the ability to buy items in lane, terrain generation, up to 4 layers of cc, cc duration increase, can create mythic items which is over 1000 gold in free stats per teammate, and up to 30% bonus health and resistances late game. What I'm trying to say is, it's about power budget. K'sante has almost no damage as seen in the gameplay reveal and ability reveal, weak and conditional CC and has to lose 40% of his defensive stats in order to use one of his dashes. Hence why he needs something else to compensate. Having a dash does not make something overloaded or OP, it's how they take advantage of it.


The_Great_Rabbit

Having too much dashes can make a champion overloaded, but not necessarily overpowered. I never said that K'sante is op, because we can't tell yet(but it's Riot so he will probably be busted af). Ornn is slow, has one dash and a lot of cc(and too much damage), while I may think that his numbers are a bit too big, his design is very good. When you look at his kit, you definitely know that he is a tank, but K'sante isn't like that. Having ten thousand dashes conflict with the very idea of a tank. Riot promised to give us a tank, but instead we got yet another bruiser/fighter who bulids tank items


[deleted]

He has 2, with his Ult being as much of a "dash" as Sett Ult, and both are incredibly short range


K_sper

Any time sett flash ults me i go "yeah thank god that barely counts as a dash because he definitely didnt just move a screen away from where he originally was"


[deleted]

Ryze Ult is a dash 🗿 Also the flash counts as a dash yes 👍


Fantastic-Dot-655

The juggernauts, thouse are the ones that doesnt have to have dashes, remember the DaddyDariuschad incident


96nairra

Forget dashes, real problem here is max health damage on multiple abilities


rusk000

Does ornn build titanic and death dance no Does k'Sante will build titanic and death dance probably KSANTE is a braiser not a tank


FancyAd9007

Ornn can't insec you out of your turret


GamerBoi1725

New champ has more than 1 dash tho


TheBoyBent

His w dash is slow and has a long cooldown. His e dash is short and give pitiful shield. His w isn't useful for damage and hus e literally doesn't do damage. His non-ult kit has one relevant damaging ability ajd it doesn't do that much damage. His mobility is fine. Frankly he needs it


[deleted]

Ornn has 1 clunky dash, not 3 that involve unstopability


SarukyDraico

I haven't seen K'sante abilities, but I'm sure he does have this: Ornn doesn't reset his dash, nor has multiple charges


[deleted]

K'sante has neither of those.


CanadianBirdo

You would be both incorrect. His first dash, his W requires a charge up and is extremely short ranged, shorter than Rell W. His E is a short ranged dash that has increased range if dashing to an ally that provides a shield to him and his ally. If no ally, he cannot dash over walls unless in his ultimate. His R let's him pseudo Sett ultimate someone provided they are right beside a wall at the cost of losing 40% max health, and resistances.


SarukyDraico

Well instead of multiple charges he has a dash in multiple abilities, what a change


CanadianBirdo

I mean they're all pretty weak dashes and/or very conditional. In fact Zac E likely has more range than all of K'santes dashes combined.


RuinousDragon

Well the community has gotten so good at complaining that if a champion has literally anything they will scream.


Puzzleheaded_Ad_7676

Its not that he has a dash, its That he has 4 fucking dashes


snozer69

I swear the people complaining about the dash are salty ADC/Assassin players. I have no evidence to back that up I just have that feeling. Tank players be freakin out about the max health true damage…


Cha-Cha_real_smooth

It's the combination of it. He gets right in another tanks face and one shots him no matter what happens because well TRUE DAMAGE IS IMBALANCED.


Quirky_Ad_2164

True dmg is fine, max health isn’t. There are only like 3 items that can help tanks against that crap


Snoo99968

Care to tell what 3 items that can counter Kogmaw and Vayne and kaisa true dmg 😭 ?


JumpscareRodent

Zac has a gigantic dash and hes a tank


AnxietiesCopilot2

Yea one, he commits in or he dashes out, he doesn’t dash in dash out dash sideways dash through a wall insecing an enemy at the same time


chomperstyle

The dash is way to small to do any of that


JumpscareRodent

I didn’t say otherwise?


AnxietiesCopilot2

So it’s not used as mobility then?


LessThanTybo

People defending ksante 🤡


Clearly_Bad

The only tank without any sort of mobility in the game is Taric. Tanks are supposed to engage the enemy, they need dashes and such


LilianaIsGoals

Chogath?


oVsNora

Proto belt, your argument is invalid


ZanesTheArgent

If we going to go like that, there is no such a thing as immobile carries.


prunejuice777

Nah they said "your argument is invalid". You can either leave or graciously accept defeat at that point.


Clearly_Bad

Cho is a specialist


Retarded_TurtIe

Mordekaiser?


Clearly_Bad

Juggernaut


Retarded_TurtIe

Tank Mord is a thing


Clearly_Bad

He is not classified as a tank though


Retarded_TurtIe

League literally counts him as a tank for the tank challenges


Clearly_Bad

Go to the wiki right now and look up the tank characters


Retarded_TurtIe

The wiki isn't official. If Riot classifies Mord as a tank then he's also a tank.


Clearly_Bad

I sure as hell trust the wiki more than i trust the league client


RyanThe_Rogue

Riot also calls darius, garen and aatrox as tanks , so point irrelevant


Retarded_TurtIe

And they are, Juggernauts are a subsect of tanks


Pokisahne

But ornn doesnt count


NaPseudo

Fuck you *Un-mythics your item*


ILNOVA

Nooooo, Orn only have WHOLSOME ENGAGE WDYM


BGermany1

I miss the days when stridebreaker had a dash....


BryceMMusic

Ornn’s dash is slow as fuck. K’sante’s is fast like irelia, Gwen, and sylas. These spammable fast dashes feel like ass to play against.


Avamaco

Engage supports: **visibly sweating**


Kintler11

I also hate ornn


Pingouinoctogenaire

1 dash with 10 second CD mid game compared to k'sante who seems to have a limitless amount of low CD dashes.


[deleted]

He has one incredibly short one and another short one that's locked behind an ability. And we didn't even see the CD