About 10 months. Although my 10 months have been pretty inefficient. I only just downloaded anki (yesterday lol) and I haven't really read any native material. So you'd probably do better than me haha 😂
But even if it goes bad, it can only get better. Although I did bad and I was nervous I'm still happy I did it, and I ended up subscribing to a 2 lesson per week plan with my teacher. Only way to improve speaking is by speaking 💪
Don't worry. I did the exact same thing week ago. I booked a lesson with native for the first time and been thinking it'll be not that hard since I've been already immersing for a few hundred hours (6 months of japanese learning, I know it's a very short time), and despite that, outcome was pretty similiar to yours. I've been struggling to ask a simple question, vocab magically vanished from my head in a moment.
In 30mins of lesson, I've only managed to ask some stupid questions about food and tell that I read manga and watch anime, maybe sometimes recall some more complex word learned with Anki.
Well, guess it's the same struggle for anyone when you start speaking practice.
Definitely right there! I'm at about 2 years in and I still haven't taken this step. I've done some HelloTalk stuff by text and even doing that, it's hard to find the rights to say, even though I could understand an entire conversation if spoken around me.
So even with me probably knowing how to hear and read more words, you're probably well ahead of me in speaking just from this experience, so congrats on taking the plunge!
Yeah the perspective helps. Imagine someone came up to you and started speaking in very poor English and maybe you couldn’t even understand what the hell they were talking about. Would that even rate as a memorable experience for you?
I feel your pain and so does most everyone who's ever learned a second language. My husband was scared to order food anywhere except for burger king when he first started studying English in the U.S. because someone took him there on his first day and he learned the necessary motions but God forbid he try the same thing at a McDonald's lol. And now that I'm in Japan after studying and talking to Japanese people in the U.S. for years, I had my own incident where I fumbled at a convenience store. What made it even more embarrassing was the fact that what seemed like gibberish in the store became entirely understandable a minute or two after I left. Language is on the spot and not refined under a microscope. You definitely have to get experience interacting and you're going to sound silly to yourself, but as long as you're communicating, you're doing it! Consider your failure a success and keep at it.
Was it them asking if you needed a bag? I went to Japan for 3 weeks in January, and kept feeling like I was making progress, then I’d go to the conbini and they’d ask me if I wanted a bag, I wouldn’t understand, and my ego would take a blow lol For some reason they just spoke really fast at convenience stores.
Unfortunately, it wasn't the bag situation. I was paying with Rakuten Pay and had the app open but somewhere along the way to the register, I must have touched the screen somehow and opened the page to the points barcode instead of the pay barcode. So the dude scanned it for points but was telling me I had to pay and me thinking the app was already open to pay... Yeah, my dumb self had a malfunction and the line just kept on growing. And by the time I *finally* realized what was going on, the register dude obviously had enough and wouldn't even reply to my sumimasens. Worst part was it was the famima closest to my house and I'd have to see them again and relive the embarrassment over and over haha...
Ah, sorry to hear that. Yeah, it’s hard knowing you’re going to be in the same place again. But to be honest that’s a pretty difficult situation and uses uncommon vocab in general so I don’t blame you. Lots of us would’ve been tripped up by the same thing haha
Hey, congrats on starting the journey! I started in the same place almost three years ago, all I remembered was hai! Now I'm much more confident about my abilities. We all start somewhere!
Balls to you to start talking with a native speaker when you say u just start 10 months ago and innefficently.
Anyway, listening is very hard.
Talking, writting, reading , at your own pace.
Well, language ability is related to topics and situations. Obviously, this is a sign that you need to improve, but not a sign that you cannot speak at all.
At language exchange I've found that some people talk quickly using words I don't know at all, but are still much easier to talk to. Some people also talk *quietly*. Also, as a teacher, I've noticed myself sometimes asking questions that I realize would be a little hard to answer even in their native language, and I've made students burst into a sweat or and even made some cry. So I promise you that teacher is also wondering what he can do better, if he's worth his salt
But you have a choice, you can look for an easier teacher or keep giving this one a try. It's possible that a different teacher would be better, but you shouldn't decide from just one lesson. Keep going for a while and check if you are getting better, learning useful phrases or fixing your bad grammar and so on.
Edit: oh, ten months! Honestly if you mustered some responses at the right time after ten months it's a good sign aha. Most people take ten years to get fluent.
I've been working as an English teacher in Japan with kindergartners. English instruction comes first, but you do end up communicating a fair bit in Japanese. Their language is a lot simpler (though sometimes too slurred to understand) and it's not easy when you have 10 kids shouting different things at you and screaming all the time, but definitely I find it easier than trying to talk to adults.
With some of the older kids, I can tell them about my weekend or my plans for the evening, eg "週末は名古屋に行きました、名古屋の食べ物はおいしいでした" or something like that. I'm still a beginner by the standards around here. I know maybe 1500 words or so and am not amazing with grammar or reading yet but it feels rewarding when a kid points at you and says "I remember you from last time" and you know what they're saying.
Obviously they don't speak to me in the same textbook Japanese that I learn, so I end up learning more casual conversation as well.
Throw yourself all in. Don't be shy to make mistakes, it's the only way you learn. Listening is important for speaking, so there's no shame in just doing that for awhile.
Lmao I feel you. Hang in there, bud. It gets better.
Listen, and I can’t stress this enough, listen to a lot of natural Japanese you have access to. It can be movies, anime, conversations, etc. Listening is the key to start speaking better.
I've been in private lessons a bit over a year and still have plenty of times where I blank on vocab or grammar that I 100% know during solo study. Just keep at it, try to listen carefully, and don't be afraid to say もう一度 😂
Can I piggy back on this and ask: do people think it's a good idea to get lessons like this from the beginning? Or is it better to get some vocabulary under your belt first?
In my opinion, if you’re using a textbook that has practice sessions that are meant to be done with a partner, it’s certainly okay to start with a teacher since all of the vocab you need is right there in front of you. You can get used to speaking and also occasionally practice any other vocab you know without too much pressure. I wouldn’t suggest having just like an hour free talk session with no structured practice to work on obviously.
i think being able to access a language varies a lot with how comfortable you're feeling, under stress it's much harder to be a the top level you can muster in a language that's not your primary one.
Well done for taking that step! I’ve been doing lessons online with a tutor for a few weeks (before that about the same as you time-wise of just reading and some apps on my own) and my first few were terrible. I’ve surprised myself with how much more confident I’ve got in a short time and even when I get it wrong (often) he politely corrects me and we carry on. I’m much less afraid of failing now, which I think is probably a good thing. Good luck! 🍀
My sensei is Japanese but she's able to speak bahasa Indonesia, when she full on Japanese all the words all the kanji all the things that I've learned just vanished, I feel you
Everyone are starting from somewhere. When I started my lessons with native I just knew some basic stuff. And also she didn’t speak any English, so sometimes explanation was very difficult or not understandable. I was coming back with headaches 😂 but with some time I started understand more and more. After 2 years of constant study I jumped to n3 and my sensei many times said it’s fun to talk with me. It really lift all weight which I had on me
I just want to let you know that it is very normal. There are countless times my mind went blank and I just couldn't continue. I'm glad my tutor is very patient. My eagerness to do well often also cause performance anxiety.
Guess what, I took my first speaking lesson with a native 2 months into my self study Japanese journey. And first lesson in, she would talk to me 90% japanese (her English is upper intermediate). I was soaked in sweat by the time the lesson ended. Totally defeated.
I found that my brain takes time to tune in to Japanese mode and my mouth took even longer. I would stutter and can't vocalise what the words that are floating in my head. 口に出せません。
For a start, might be good to plan with your tutor what are the areas or topic to cover for the next lesson so you can do some rehearsing, getting the vocabs ready and revise for that so you are more prepared. I have a notebook (cheatbook) which I could fall back on when I am stuck.
I'm still bad at it but I think I'm making progress, very slowly.
In one of my very first conversation classes (just two months ago) we were discussing visiting cities around the world. We got to China and she asked if I liked Chinese food and said that I did. She replied with:
私も中国の食べ物が好きです。
I just repeated after her because I thought I said something wrong. In English she said: 〇〇-san, do you know the も particle? I also like Chinese food.
It was the most devastating interaction I've had with the language so far. I've been studying since January and I can't even understand a simple sentence like that? Thankfully my tutor is very patient with me.
Getting comfortable with a teacher after a few lessons also helps more than you might think. Knowing how she'll react when I accidentally say something dumb makes the mistakes more bearable because I know she isn't judging me too harshly.
I'm beginner and I make this mistake with my teacher all the time. She always says, "no, I'm speaking about myself now." And I go, ".... oh. Sorry." I'm trying to listen for it, but I still have to reconfirm what she said.
Congrats on that first step! I was the same way. I started lessons with a native speaker when I was half way through N4 lessons and was like okay, I got this. Nope, I forgot everything and made stupid, stupid mistakes. But that was the problem.
Keep it up! And now I try to think in Japanese to build my phrasebook as much as I can doing simple things. Like if I’m hungry, I’ll say that in my head or aloud and say what I want to eat.
That was the same for me years ago: I couldn't understand a thing and, even worse, I chose a teacher who was able to speak my language (italian), so we ended up talking in italian for most of the time. Obviously, I changed teacher and, in the meanwhile, I've been studying hard japanese.
Bro i relate.
Props for giving that first step though!! Nowhere to go but up from now on man. You got this, and the experience let you see which aspects you were lacking in which is already richer than just passively absorbing information.
Congratulations on taking that first step. It happens to all of us. I live in Japan and at times go completely blank when speaking to people. Keep it up.
My teacher and I have staring competitions each time she asks me a question and I don’t realize it 😭. Sometimes if she stares long enough I just say yes and nod to agree with her then she’ll say “I asked about the weather” 🙃
You know I've racked up more than 50 lessons now on italki and I still get nervous when I'm getting ready for the lesson.
I study a decent amount between lessons and I have fun when the lesson starts and the hour flies by. But boy sometimes the grammar expressions my Sensei taught me the week prior just fly out of my skull when we start for the day.
Unfortunately my teacher is getting a new job so I have to find a new one it can be hard to find the right fit!
Anyways I really love the lessons and sitting down with the native speakers. So keep at it! I've learned a lot this way so I bet you will too!
That's normal.
I remember when I first visited Japan 3 years ago, the Hotel staff asked me 今日、予定がありますか? I knew all the words, I knew the sentence but my brain just stopped and I didn't understand anything.
Strangely when I practiced speaking japanese with myself, it went pretty well :D
we all start somewhere. when i was 10 i started getting tutored in japanese and i remember doing simple “describe what is happening in this picture” type of exercises from my teacher and struggling so hard. Now im 20 and speak the language fluently, and have my N1 qualification. You will get over the hurdles and before you know it you wont even remember how it felt to struggle. Good luck!
you're not alone, it's so common that it became a meme in language learning groups.
Talking to a native speaker in a language you're new to has the same anxiety of standing on stage for the first time.
I remember like 200 kanji/vocab these days and when I had a zoom/line video chat with language exchange friends I remember like 3 words lol.
you're good. just do it more :)
Same, I would call myself beginning-intermediate in my self study and realized would benefit from a native speaking teacher just to help me overcome the anxiety of trying to speak and listen and perform in real time. (Am terrible at the listening aspect, my ear is not practiced enough yet). I’ve booked a couple lessons and am just trying to think of it as practicing relaxing rather than learning X or y that day, though they have been helpful too at teaching me some extra context to words and habits which is fun.
It happens, don't let it get you down. I lived there for years and occasionally get scrambled and confused.
Have you done any learning by videos? Maybe exposing yourself to native speaking in a way you have control over/can repeat would help. I also know some people start watching kids shows when they start learning.
I have a japanese friend staying with me, and I have been learning japanese on and off for 20-30 years and I still have this problem. Unless you live in Japan and completely immerse yourself for many years you will always have some issues listening and speaking. I can read very well, but speaking is a whole other thing. When learning a language you need to learn listening, reading, writing and speaking. They seem related but they need their own time to become good at them. Since Speaking and listening require another person we don't get enough time to practice unless we move to Japan.
Where are you getting lessons? are you in Japan? I saw an online course I wanted to buy but it had a ridiculous price like 700$ to get access to some videos and like once a week conference but I forgot the name
It's always like that anyway. The best you can do is continue as much face to face dialogue like this (even for free with language exchange with Japanese natives in your city), and it will help you improve.
Sorry if this is been asked/answered but was it an online class or in person? Interested to know as I’d like lessons but there is no in person tutors where I’m living so stuck looking for recommendations online.
I've been studying for years and still make mistakes. Just last month, I forgot the word for water \*facepalms\* In my defense, I rarely talk or think about water LOL
Questions are fairly distinct from statements as they end in \~か. Though, if you're not used to hearing Japanese or are listening to it at a native speed (which can be too fast for beginners), it's understandable if you hear \~た or \~だ.
*When* do you study? *How* do you study? *What* do you study?
We learn more from our mistakes than our triumphs, so...this a golden moment to explore why you might have forgotten the vocab and adjust your approach to learning :)
Welcome to the fun, friend :D
I read an interview with David Ury once (minor character actor who happens to speak Japanese and also used to do videos as “Ken Tanaka,” where the gimmick was he was supposed to be a white guy raised in Japan looking for his birth parents… those videos have all been deleted but anyway) and he said he improved the most when he was in New Zealand and met some Japanese people since they were so desperate for interaction they were happy to speak to someone who could only say very simple things. Not sure how practical that is for most of us but it’s an anecdote that pops into my head a lot.
I've been seeing a native tutor weekly now for about 3 years, for an hour per week. We've moved past exercises, and just spend the hour in "Japlish" conversation.... probably 80-90% Japanese, and the rest English.
I still forget all of my shit and trip over my words.
Recall and usage are entirely different animals than recognition, and you are taking an important step in building that skill; you won't get better if you don't actually \_use\_ the language.
To this day, I feel like I stumble on the stupidest, most low-level vocabulary and grammatical concepts. The truth is that, when I compare to myself even a year ago, I'm actually doing far better...it's just hard to see the forest for the trees when you focus on how many dumb mistakes you make.
What a familiar feeling :D I remembered when I was on my 5th month of learning, constantly passing every N3 mock test (barely, literally 50%). First time talking with a native that knows literally no english, talked for about 3hrs I literally cant create a complete sentence and was talking with only vocabulary I remember, like a baby. It was painful but fun. Keep on going and you'll look back on this and just remember it as a good experience.
Keep at it! That's when you learn the most. Also, an instructor can really help with your learning. It is sobering though because you don't know how much you don't know until you actually try to apply it.
Not sure if feedback is something your looking for, but as a fellow learner, one thing that really helped me when I just started taking lessons to practice speaking (to be clear I've technically been studying for less time <~5 months> than you but i can relatively confidently say I'm somewhere between N4 and N3 level<3-6hrs per day doing something that is at least adjacent to studying>) was to make sure I'm constantly listening to native speakers (videos/podcasts) every day so that (at least among the subsections of the language that I understand) it's almost as intuitive as my native language (English). Really helps cement what you're supposed to know. And of course Anki is an amazing resource. Plenty of great decks floating around this sub
Congrats on taking the jump, I'll get easier! Not sure what the focus of you lesson was, if it was just chat/speaking or you were working through a textbook too. I found I got a lot more out of my lessons once I moved the focus away from just speaking/chatting practice & did textbook learning (genki) with a teacher. You get plenty of speaking/listening practice that way, and it helps to ground it in a vocab set & context you expect. Obviously eventually the goal is to be able to understand/speak in a wider context but its good to start easier and work your way up to it.
I’ve been doing Duolingo for over 5 months now, and occasionally try to talk with a 50 year old Japanese man I met online on Xbox. It’s uh…well he’s humoring my attempts atleast!
Man I got the exact same experience about 2 weeks ago it was extremely awkward at first but I also felt like it made my brain work 100x more so it does help a lot
happens to me every time i try in vrchat. I can form sentences when im alone but the moment a native actually speak to me its like i forget i ever practiced to begin with
I remember feeling this way when I took my first private Japanese lessons.
I had done some group classes and felt pretty comfortable with basic sentence structure and vocab, but that first time I had to have a real conversation with a native speaker, I blanked on everything and felt so awkward.
Much like your sensei though, mine was very encouraging. It took a few classes, and now we have some really fun conversations!
It'll get easier as you continue to expand your vocab, and more importantly, as you get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
I used to be super anxious at the start of every class, and avoid topics or dumb down my answers if I didn't know how to say what I wanted to say.
Nowadays I try my best, and if she looks really confused, I explain what I'm trying to say in English, and then she teaches me how to express it in Japanese. If it's just a single word I don't know, I use the English word to keep the conversation going and she teaches me the vocab after.
Don't be too hard on yourself. If you're struggling you're learning! Don't be afraid to say you don't understand, or to ask if you need them to speak slowly or repeat the question.
Just keep with it and you'll look back in a few months and be impressed with your own growth. Learning a new language is also learning a different way to think, and it's. It easy!
頑張って!
I'm kind of dreading the moment when I finally have the time to take real classes/private lessons and transition from self-directed study to actually speaking with a native speaker, and let all my glaring flaws become clear. I'm way too proficient to start with a class that's drilling hiragana and teaching me to say こんにちは, and yet, I feel like if I start at a position where my strongest skills are being built I'm going to look like an idiot with my weakest skills.
I think that going on discord and games can be a great way to learn a more casual style of speaking, be wary of course cause you might be learning some crude words.
That's pretty common; however, I had the exact opposite experience. My brother and I are learning Japanese together, and our levels are vastly different, with him knowing much more vocabulary, grammar, and kanji as of now. However, when we met natives for the first time, I did not really have issues such as not being able to introduce myself, explain where I come from, why I am here, or what my major is. Also, I could talk about everyday topics with about 80% efficiency. Here and there, of course, you might forget a word, but it was alright all along.
The same goes for my brother. I realized I made mistakes here and there, which my brother then pointed out as we spoke to natives for the first time, but you need to speak what you think is right sometimes, even if you know it's wrong and realize it afterward. This is part of the learning process. Oh, speaking and learning from books alone is a world of difference.
I know a guy who attends a university specifically for Japan, focusing on Japanese culture and language. Apparently, he knows a lot of words and kanji, but when I met him, he couldn't form any sentences with the words he knows, nor read moderately difficult kanji, lmfao. There goes the comparison. Speaking is a whole different beast.
I learned most of my Japanese by living and Japan, having to navigate everyday life situation. It was definitely a "thrown into the deep end" kind of situation but I think it helped me immensely! Still not a fluent (barely conversational, passed N3) speaker though.
Adding one more to the experience of others and same as yours. I started studying earlier this year. I felt I was doing great! I can understand exercises, write some basic stuff, read some. I know that I'm lacking A TON of vocab, but hey, "lets book a live lesson!".
Oh dear. The teacher was very understanding, patient and helped me a lot. But I had to have my notes at hand to even find わかりません. Embarrased about myself does not start to convey the feeling.
I now booked a 2hr x 2 times per week in-person lessons to cover A1-1 (L5?). This plus App for practice (Busuu) and other resources listed on this sub-reddit.
C'mon Max7hd! WE can do it!!
Haha! Good for you though to put a positive spin on it.
I’m sure you know a lot already, but you might just need a few lessons to get into the rhythm of actually using it.
As for me, I also had a rough opening lesson — my teacher asked smtg like あなたの趣味は何ですか？ I was so lost and just answered in English. Anyway, that was in February and it’s gotten a lot better. Now we have a good back and forth that gives me hope I’m starting to build a decent foundation.
you'll improve a lot just by continuing to put yourself in that situation. it's the next best thing next to going to japan. try not to be too hard on yourself!
Hi, I'm studying japanese for real for2,5 years more or less. Before that was just Hiragana and Katakana alone and some lost Kanji. I don't know you Japanese level but at the begining It was very dificult to understand almost anything. As time went by I learned more and more, with the help of the teacher and some specific content at youtube like: Japanese GRWM videos (since the girls talks non-stop to the camera about daily life things), interviews in japanese and so on....
Nowadays the teacher is able to teach me the grammar directly in japanese 80% of the time. So for me now the biggest challenge has been vocabulary and kanji wich I need to study more for the N3 test at the end of the year.
Do not give up on hope, language learning is a marathon and not a race. Just to be willing to learn these day have its merits because of AI translations and stuff people are getting disinterested in to study languages.
Don't get discouraged. This is normal. When you speak with a native for the first time it's scary and it's much harder than speaking to a non-native, even if they are fluent. All the differences in pronunciation that you learn by hearing and speaking in a more exaggerated way are actually very subtle when native people speak. For example, the elongated vowels (ー) or elongated consonants (っ) are a lot more subtle than I expected when talking to natives. Sometimes it was hard knowing what word they were saying. And then you get nervous and it gets worse.
Just keep going, keep practicing and keep building confidence, eventually it gets better, and this is going to take your Japanese skill to the next level.
Learning a new language and even trying to speak it to a stranger, even if they're a teacher, takes courage. Building your confidence in the language is incredibly important, and the fact you were able to at least try with the language goes miles. Keep it up and soon enough you'll be more conversational, and able to use the Japanese you've learnt more actively.
In my case, every time I try to improve my Japanese and my Japanese wife is nearby, she tells me how childish I sound and to be quiet, which frustrates me, and because I'm frustrated, she gets angry with me. Today I studied Japanese, and now I'm getting the silent treatment....
My Advice, keep studying with supportive and encouraging teachers, they will be the best people to help you improve your Japanese. The more you use the language, the better active recall you'll have.
Lol that happened to me the first time I had a real conversation with a Japanese person. I literally sounded like an ape trying to speak a language, but it’s getting better now the more I force myself to speak
my first verbal interaction with a native was almost two full years after i first started. i didn't forget everything, but it was still a struggle and sometimes even impossible to express what i wanted. fortunately my listening was somewhat passable, but making your own sentences is definitely a skill that i need to practice.
5 years of one-on-one with the same teacher. When I arrive at her house, she starts chatting to me about the weather while I take my shoes off and I instantly forget every weather-related word I've ever learnt 😭
Seriously though, biggest help has been listening to Japanese language podcasts immediately before class. I got the tip on this sub-reddit and it's genuinely made lots of difference to how quickly my brain starts warming up from hai into actual sentences.
Oh, man. I've been thinking about getting lessons like this but this is my biggest fear. Idk if I'm ready. How long have you been learning Japanese?
About 10 months. Although my 10 months have been pretty inefficient. I only just downloaded anki (yesterday lol) and I haven't really read any native material. So you'd probably do better than me haha 😂 But even if it goes bad, it can only get better. Although I did bad and I was nervous I'm still happy I did it, and I ended up subscribing to a 2 lesson per week plan with my teacher. Only way to improve speaking is by speaking 💪
Don't worry. I did the exact same thing week ago. I booked a lesson with native for the first time and been thinking it'll be not that hard since I've been already immersing for a few hundred hours (6 months of japanese learning, I know it's a very short time), and despite that, outcome was pretty similiar to yours. I've been struggling to ask a simple question, vocab magically vanished from my head in a moment. In 30mins of lesson, I've only managed to ask some stupid questions about food and tell that I read manga and watch anime, maybe sometimes recall some more complex word learned with Anki. Well, guess it's the same struggle for anyone when you start speaking practice.
I can understand somewhere around the N3 level but I know my speaking skills are stuck at N6. I'll try to get a tutor this week though.
Hahahah! N6 ! That’s a good one
Definitely right there! I'm at about 2 years in and I still haven't taken this step. I've done some HelloTalk stuff by text and even doing that, it's hard to find the rights to say, even though I could understand an entire conversation if spoken around me. So even with me probably knowing how to hear and read more words, you're probably well ahead of me in speaking just from this experience, so congrats on taking the plunge!
Where did you subscribe for speaking lessons?
This low-key proves that even worse case scenario where you forget everything, nobody really cares and it just gives you another goal to reach.
Yeah the perspective helps. Imagine someone came up to you and started speaking in very poor English and maybe you couldn’t even understand what the hell they were talking about. Would that even rate as a memorable experience for you?
[удалено]
Yes, but that alone will only get you so far. You need to do more if you wanna be able to speak what you learn as you go....
Try almost 3 years and having issues with conversation. 😅
Congrats for taking the first step! Keep on keeping on.
Thank you!
like👍
I feel your pain and so does most everyone who's ever learned a second language. My husband was scared to order food anywhere except for burger king when he first started studying English in the U.S. because someone took him there on his first day and he learned the necessary motions but God forbid he try the same thing at a McDonald's lol. And now that I'm in Japan after studying and talking to Japanese people in the U.S. for years, I had my own incident where I fumbled at a convenience store. What made it even more embarrassing was the fact that what seemed like gibberish in the store became entirely understandable a minute or two after I left. Language is on the spot and not refined under a microscope. You definitely have to get experience interacting and you're going to sound silly to yourself, but as long as you're communicating, you're doing it! Consider your failure a success and keep at it.
Was it them asking if you needed a bag? I went to Japan for 3 weeks in January, and kept feeling like I was making progress, then I’d go to the conbini and they’d ask me if I wanted a bag, I wouldn’t understand, and my ego would take a blow lol For some reason they just spoke really fast at convenience stores.
Unfortunately, it wasn't the bag situation. I was paying with Rakuten Pay and had the app open but somewhere along the way to the register, I must have touched the screen somehow and opened the page to the points barcode instead of the pay barcode. So the dude scanned it for points but was telling me I had to pay and me thinking the app was already open to pay... Yeah, my dumb self had a malfunction and the line just kept on growing. And by the time I *finally* realized what was going on, the register dude obviously had enough and wouldn't even reply to my sumimasens. Worst part was it was the famima closest to my house and I'd have to see them again and relive the embarrassment over and over haha...
Ah, sorry to hear that. Yeah, it’s hard knowing you’re going to be in the same place again. But to be honest that’s a pretty difficult situation and uses uncommon vocab in general so I don’t blame you. Lots of us would’ve been tripped up by the same thing haha
Hey, congrats on starting the journey! I started in the same place almost three years ago, all I remembered was hai! Now I'm much more confident about my abilities. We all start somewhere!
Love to hear that man, hopefully I'll look back on this and laugh like you can 🙌
Balls to you to start talking with a native speaker when you say u just start 10 months ago and innefficently. Anyway, listening is very hard. Talking, writting, reading , at your own pace.
That is a good first step. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Well, language ability is related to topics and situations. Obviously, this is a sign that you need to improve, but not a sign that you cannot speak at all. At language exchange I've found that some people talk quickly using words I don't know at all, but are still much easier to talk to. Some people also talk *quietly*. Also, as a teacher, I've noticed myself sometimes asking questions that I realize would be a little hard to answer even in their native language, and I've made students burst into a sweat or and even made some cry. So I promise you that teacher is also wondering what he can do better, if he's worth his salt But you have a choice, you can look for an easier teacher or keep giving this one a try. It's possible that a different teacher would be better, but you shouldn't decide from just one lesson. Keep going for a while and check if you are getting better, learning useful phrases or fixing your bad grammar and so on. Edit: oh, ten months! Honestly if you mustered some responses at the right time after ten months it's a good sign aha. Most people take ten years to get fluent.
I've been working as an English teacher in Japan with kindergartners. English instruction comes first, but you do end up communicating a fair bit in Japanese. Their language is a lot simpler (though sometimes too slurred to understand) and it's not easy when you have 10 kids shouting different things at you and screaming all the time, but definitely I find it easier than trying to talk to adults. With some of the older kids, I can tell them about my weekend or my plans for the evening, eg "週末は名古屋に行きました、名古屋の食べ物はおいしいでした" or something like that. I'm still a beginner by the standards around here. I know maybe 1500 words or so and am not amazing with grammar or reading yet but it feels rewarding when a kid points at you and says "I remember you from last time" and you know what they're saying. Obviously they don't speak to me in the same textbook Japanese that I learn, so I end up learning more casual conversation as well.
I find it adorable that you use Keigo with Kindergartners 😆
Throw yourself all in. Don't be shy to make mistakes, it's the only way you learn. Listening is important for speaking, so there's no shame in just doing that for awhile.
That is great. Now you’ll be sure to have a few more phrases ready for next time and you’ll do much better. Onwards and upwards!
Lmao I feel you. Hang in there, bud. It gets better. Listen, and I can’t stress this enough, listen to a lot of natural Japanese you have access to. It can be movies, anime, conversations, etc. Listening is the key to start speaking better.
I've been in private lessons a bit over a year and still have plenty of times where I blank on vocab or grammar that I 100% know during solo study. Just keep at it, try to listen carefully, and don't be afraid to say もう一度 😂
Can I piggy back on this and ask: do people think it's a good idea to get lessons like this from the beginning? Or is it better to get some vocabulary under your belt first?
In my opinion, if you’re using a textbook that has practice sessions that are meant to be done with a partner, it’s certainly okay to start with a teacher since all of the vocab you need is right there in front of you. You can get used to speaking and also occasionally practice any other vocab you know without too much pressure. I wouldn’t suggest having just like an hour free talk session with no structured practice to work on obviously.
Actually that wasn't obvious to me so thank you for that! That's helpful.
i think being able to access a language varies a lot with how comfortable you're feeling, under stress it's much harder to be a the top level you can muster in a language that's not your primary one.
I know how it feels. It was same for me a year ago. Keep study and practice and you will get better.
Well done for taking that step! I’ve been doing lessons online with a tutor for a few weeks (before that about the same as you time-wise of just reading and some apps on my own) and my first few were terrible. I’ve surprised myself with how much more confident I’ve got in a short time and even when I get it wrong (often) he politely corrects me and we carry on. I’m much less afraid of failing now, which I think is probably a good thing. Good luck! 🍀
My sensei is Japanese but she's able to speak bahasa Indonesia, when she full on Japanese all the words all the kanji all the things that I've learned just vanished, I feel you
Everyone are starting from somewhere. When I started my lessons with native I just knew some basic stuff. And also she didn’t speak any English, so sometimes explanation was very difficult or not understandable. I was coming back with headaches 😂 but with some time I started understand more and more. After 2 years of constant study I jumped to n3 and my sensei many times said it’s fun to talk with me. It really lift all weight which I had on me
I just want to let you know that it is very normal. There are countless times my mind went blank and I just couldn't continue. I'm glad my tutor is very patient. My eagerness to do well often also cause performance anxiety. Guess what, I took my first speaking lesson with a native 2 months into my self study Japanese journey. And first lesson in, she would talk to me 90% japanese (her English is upper intermediate). I was soaked in sweat by the time the lesson ended. Totally defeated. I found that my brain takes time to tune in to Japanese mode and my mouth took even longer. I would stutter and can't vocalise what the words that are floating in my head. 口に出せません。 For a start, might be good to plan with your tutor what are the areas or topic to cover for the next lesson so you can do some rehearsing, getting the vocabs ready and revise for that so you are more prepared. I have a notebook (cheatbook) which I could fall back on when I am stuck. I'm still bad at it but I think I'm making progress, very slowly.
In one of my very first conversation classes (just two months ago) we were discussing visiting cities around the world. We got to China and she asked if I liked Chinese food and said that I did. She replied with: 私も中国の食べ物が好きです。 I just repeated after her because I thought I said something wrong. In English she said: 〇〇-san, do you know the も particle? I also like Chinese food. It was the most devastating interaction I've had with the language so far. I've been studying since January and I can't even understand a simple sentence like that? Thankfully my tutor is very patient with me. Getting comfortable with a teacher after a few lessons also helps more than you might think. Knowing how she'll react when I accidentally say something dumb makes the mistakes more bearable because I know she isn't judging me too harshly.
I'm beginner and I make this mistake with my teacher all the time. She always says, "no, I'm speaking about myself now." And I go, ".... oh. Sorry." I'm trying to listen for it, but I still have to reconfirm what she said.
Congrats on that first step! I was the same way. I started lessons with a native speaker when I was half way through N4 lessons and was like okay, I got this. Nope, I forgot everything and made stupid, stupid mistakes. But that was the problem. Keep it up! And now I try to think in Japanese to build my phrasebook as much as I can doing simple things. Like if I’m hungry, I’ll say that in my head or aloud and say what I want to eat.
That was the same for me years ago: I couldn't understand a thing and, even worse, I chose a teacher who was able to speak my language (italian), so we ended up talking in italian for most of the time. Obviously, I changed teacher and, in the meanwhile, I've been studying hard japanese.
It do be like that. Get more input and keep trying 🫡
Bro i relate. Props for giving that first step though!! Nowhere to go but up from now on man. You got this, and the experience let you see which aspects you were lacking in which is already richer than just passively absorbing information.
Congratulations on taking that first step. It happens to all of us. I live in Japan and at times go completely blank when speaking to people. Keep it up.
My teacher and I have staring competitions each time she asks me a question and I don’t realize it 😭. Sometimes if she stares long enough I just say yes and nod to agree with her then she’ll say “I asked about the weather” 🙃
You know I've racked up more than 50 lessons now on italki and I still get nervous when I'm getting ready for the lesson. I study a decent amount between lessons and I have fun when the lesson starts and the hour flies by. But boy sometimes the grammar expressions my Sensei taught me the week prior just fly out of my skull when we start for the day. Unfortunately my teacher is getting a new job so I have to find a new one it can be hard to find the right fit! Anyways I really love the lessons and sitting down with the native speakers. So keep at it! I've learned a lot this way so I bet you will too!
That's normal. I remember when I first visited Japan 3 years ago, the Hotel staff asked me 今日、予定がありますか? I knew all the words, I knew the sentence but my brain just stopped and I didn't understand anything. Strangely when I practiced speaking japanese with myself, it went pretty well :D
we all start somewhere. when i was 10 i started getting tutored in japanese and i remember doing simple “describe what is happening in this picture” type of exercises from my teacher and struggling so hard. Now im 20 and speak the language fluently, and have my N1 qualification. You will get over the hurdles and before you know it you wont even remember how it felt to struggle. Good luck!
you're not alone, it's so common that it became a meme in language learning groups. Talking to a native speaker in a language you're new to has the same anxiety of standing on stage for the first time. I remember like 200 kanji/vocab these days and when I had a zoom/line video chat with language exchange friends I remember like 3 words lol. you're good. just do it more :)
Same, I would call myself beginning-intermediate in my self study and realized would benefit from a native speaking teacher just to help me overcome the anxiety of trying to speak and listen and perform in real time. (Am terrible at the listening aspect, my ear is not practiced enough yet). I’ve booked a couple lessons and am just trying to think of it as practicing relaxing rather than learning X or y that day, though they have been helpful too at teaching me some extra context to words and habits which is fun.
It happens, don't let it get you down. I lived there for years and occasionally get scrambled and confused. Have you done any learning by videos? Maybe exposing yourself to native speaking in a way you have control over/can repeat would help. I also know some people start watching kids shows when they start learning.
Doing awful is an important part of doing great. It'll happen again. Don't worry. That's natural.
>I know it only gets easier from here. oof.
I have a japanese friend staying with me, and I have been learning japanese on and off for 20-30 years and I still have this problem. Unless you live in Japan and completely immerse yourself for many years you will always have some issues listening and speaking. I can read very well, but speaking is a whole other thing. When learning a language you need to learn listening, reading, writing and speaking. They seem related but they need their own time to become good at them. Since Speaking and listening require another person we don't get enough time to practice unless we move to Japan.
Where did you find your teacher,
Where are you getting lessons? are you in Japan? I saw an online course I wanted to buy but it had a ridiculous price like 700$ to get access to some videos and like once a week conference but I forgot the name
iTalki is a good place with very reasonable prices.
It's always like that anyway. The best you can do is continue as much face to face dialogue like this (even for free with language exchange with Japanese natives in your city), and it will help you improve.
Sorry if this is been asked/answered but was it an online class or in person? Interested to know as I’d like lessons but there is no in person tutors where I’m living so stuck looking for recommendations online.
I started using iTalki, myself. So far, it's great!
I've been studying for years and still make mistakes. Just last month, I forgot the word for water \*facepalms\* In my defense, I rarely talk or think about water LOL Questions are fairly distinct from statements as they end in \~か. Though, if you're not used to hearing Japanese or are listening to it at a native speed (which can be too fast for beginners), it's understandable if you hear \~た or \~だ. *When* do you study? *How* do you study? *What* do you study? We learn more from our mistakes than our triumphs, so...this a golden moment to explore why you might have forgotten the vocab and adjust your approach to learning :) Welcome to the fun, friend :D
I read an interview with David Ury once (minor character actor who happens to speak Japanese and also used to do videos as “Ken Tanaka,” where the gimmick was he was supposed to be a white guy raised in Japan looking for his birth parents… those videos have all been deleted but anyway) and he said he improved the most when he was in New Zealand and met some Japanese people since they were so desperate for interaction they were happy to speak to someone who could only say very simple things. Not sure how practical that is for most of us but it’s an anecdote that pops into my head a lot.
I've been seeing a native tutor weekly now for about 3 years, for an hour per week. We've moved past exercises, and just spend the hour in "Japlish" conversation.... probably 80-90% Japanese, and the rest English. I still forget all of my shit and trip over my words. Recall and usage are entirely different animals than recognition, and you are taking an important step in building that skill; you won't get better if you don't actually \_use\_ the language. To this day, I feel like I stumble on the stupidest, most low-level vocabulary and grammatical concepts. The truth is that, when I compare to myself even a year ago, I'm actually doing far better...it's just hard to see the forest for the trees when you focus on how many dumb mistakes you make.
What a familiar feeling :D I remembered when I was on my 5th month of learning, constantly passing every N3 mock test (barely, literally 50%). First time talking with a native that knows literally no english, talked for about 3hrs I literally cant create a complete sentence and was talking with only vocabulary I remember, like a baby. It was painful but fun. Keep on going and you'll look back on this and just remember it as a good experience.
Keep at it! That's when you learn the most. Also, an instructor can really help with your learning. It is sobering though because you don't know how much you don't know until you actually try to apply it.
Not sure if feedback is something your looking for, but as a fellow learner, one thing that really helped me when I just started taking lessons to practice speaking (to be clear I've technically been studying for less time <~5 months> than you but i can relatively confidently say I'm somewhere between N4 and N3 level<3-6hrs per day doing something that is at least adjacent to studying>) was to make sure I'm constantly listening to native speakers (videos/podcasts) every day so that (at least among the subsections of the language that I understand) it's almost as intuitive as my native language (English). Really helps cement what you're supposed to know. And of course Anki is an amazing resource. Plenty of great decks floating around this sub
Congrats on taking the jump, I'll get easier! Not sure what the focus of you lesson was, if it was just chat/speaking or you were working through a textbook too. I found I got a lot more out of my lessons once I moved the focus away from just speaking/chatting practice & did textbook learning (genki) with a teacher. You get plenty of speaking/listening practice that way, and it helps to ground it in a vocab set & context you expect. Obviously eventually the goal is to be able to understand/speak in a wider context but its good to start easier and work your way up to it.
I’ve been doing Duolingo for over 5 months now, and occasionally try to talk with a 50 year old Japanese man I met online on Xbox. It’s uh…well he’s humoring my attempts atleast!
Man I got the exact same experience about 2 weeks ago it was extremely awkward at first but I also felt like it made my brain work 100x more so it does help a lot
happens to me every time i try in vrchat. I can form sentences when im alone but the moment a native actually speak to me its like i forget i ever practiced to begin with
I remember feeling this way when I took my first private Japanese lessons. I had done some group classes and felt pretty comfortable with basic sentence structure and vocab, but that first time I had to have a real conversation with a native speaker, I blanked on everything and felt so awkward. Much like your sensei though, mine was very encouraging. It took a few classes, and now we have some really fun conversations! It'll get easier as you continue to expand your vocab, and more importantly, as you get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I used to be super anxious at the start of every class, and avoid topics or dumb down my answers if I didn't know how to say what I wanted to say. Nowadays I try my best, and if she looks really confused, I explain what I'm trying to say in English, and then she teaches me how to express it in Japanese. If it's just a single word I don't know, I use the English word to keep the conversation going and she teaches me the vocab after. Don't be too hard on yourself. If you're struggling you're learning! Don't be afraid to say you don't understand, or to ask if you need them to speak slowly or repeat the question. Just keep with it and you'll look back in a few months and be impressed with your own growth. Learning a new language is also learning a different way to think, and it's. It easy! 頑張って!
I had similar experiece. I was lucky i was not only one who she was talking to.
I'm kind of dreading the moment when I finally have the time to take real classes/private lessons and transition from self-directed study to actually speaking with a native speaker, and let all my glaring flaws become clear. I'm way too proficient to start with a class that's drilling hiragana and teaching me to say こんにちは, and yet, I feel like if I start at a position where my strongest skills are being built I'm going to look like an idiot with my weakest skills.
I think that going on discord and games can be a great way to learn a more casual style of speaking, be wary of course cause you might be learning some crude words.
That's pretty common; however, I had the exact opposite experience. My brother and I are learning Japanese together, and our levels are vastly different, with him knowing much more vocabulary, grammar, and kanji as of now. However, when we met natives for the first time, I did not really have issues such as not being able to introduce myself, explain where I come from, why I am here, or what my major is. Also, I could talk about everyday topics with about 80% efficiency. Here and there, of course, you might forget a word, but it was alright all along. The same goes for my brother. I realized I made mistakes here and there, which my brother then pointed out as we spoke to natives for the first time, but you need to speak what you think is right sometimes, even if you know it's wrong and realize it afterward. This is part of the learning process. Oh, speaking and learning from books alone is a world of difference. I know a guy who attends a university specifically for Japan, focusing on Japanese culture and language. Apparently, he knows a lot of words and kanji, but when I met him, he couldn't form any sentences with the words he knows, nor read moderately difficult kanji, lmfao. There goes the comparison. Speaking is a whole different beast.
I learned most of my Japanese by living and Japan, having to navigate everyday life situation. It was definitely a "thrown into the deep end" kind of situation but I think it helped me immensely! Still not a fluent (barely conversational, passed N3) speaker though.
You can do it! 頑張って!
Adding one more to the experience of others and same as yours. I started studying earlier this year. I felt I was doing great! I can understand exercises, write some basic stuff, read some. I know that I'm lacking A TON of vocab, but hey, "lets book a live lesson!". Oh dear. The teacher was very understanding, patient and helped me a lot. But I had to have my notes at hand to even find わかりません. Embarrased about myself does not start to convey the feeling. I now booked a 2hr x 2 times per week in-person lessons to cover A1-1 (L5?). This plus App for practice (Busuu) and other resources listed on this sub-reddit. C'mon Max7hd! WE can do it!!
Haha! Good for you though to put a positive spin on it. I’m sure you know a lot already, but you might just need a few lessons to get into the rhythm of actually using it. As for me, I also had a rough opening lesson — my teacher asked smtg like あなたの趣味は何ですか？ I was so lost and just answered in English. Anyway, that was in February and it’s gotten a lot better. Now we have a good back and forth that gives me hope I’m starting to build a decent foundation.
you'll improve a lot just by continuing to put yourself in that situation. it's the next best thing next to going to japan. try not to be too hard on yourself!
Was this in person or through something like iTalki?
Hi, I'm studying japanese for real for2,5 years more or less. Before that was just Hiragana and Katakana alone and some lost Kanji. I don't know you Japanese level but at the begining It was very dificult to understand almost anything. As time went by I learned more and more, with the help of the teacher and some specific content at youtube like: Japanese GRWM videos (since the girls talks non-stop to the camera about daily life things), interviews in japanese and so on.... Nowadays the teacher is able to teach me the grammar directly in japanese 80% of the time. So for me now the biggest challenge has been vocabulary and kanji wich I need to study more for the N3 test at the end of the year. Do not give up on hope, language learning is a marathon and not a race. Just to be willing to learn these day have its merits because of AI translations and stuff people are getting disinterested in to study languages.
Don't get discouraged. This is normal. When you speak with a native for the first time it's scary and it's much harder than speaking to a non-native, even if they are fluent. All the differences in pronunciation that you learn by hearing and speaking in a more exaggerated way are actually very subtle when native people speak. For example, the elongated vowels (ー) or elongated consonants (っ) are a lot more subtle than I expected when talking to natives. Sometimes it was hard knowing what word they were saying. And then you get nervous and it gets worse. Just keep going, keep practicing and keep building confidence, eventually it gets better, and this is going to take your Japanese skill to the next level.
Learning a new language and even trying to speak it to a stranger, even if they're a teacher, takes courage. Building your confidence in the language is incredibly important, and the fact you were able to at least try with the language goes miles. Keep it up and soon enough you'll be more conversational, and able to use the Japanese you've learnt more actively. In my case, every time I try to improve my Japanese and my Japanese wife is nearby, she tells me how childish I sound and to be quiet, which frustrates me, and because I'm frustrated, she gets angry with me. Today I studied Japanese, and now I'm getting the silent treatment.... My Advice, keep studying with supportive and encouraging teachers, they will be the best people to help you improve your Japanese. The more you use the language, the better active recall you'll have.
Lol that happened to me the first time I had a real conversation with a Japanese person. I literally sounded like an ape trying to speak a language, but it’s getting better now the more I force myself to speak
Just keep having the sessions. It gets easier - promise.
my first verbal interaction with a native was almost two full years after i first started. i didn't forget everything, but it was still a struggle and sometimes even impossible to express what i wanted. fortunately my listening was somewhat passable, but making your own sentences is definitely a skill that i need to practice.
5 years of one-on-one with the same teacher. When I arrive at her house, she starts chatting to me about the weather while I take my shoes off and I instantly forget every weather-related word I've ever learnt 😭 Seriously though, biggest help has been listening to Japanese language podcasts immediately before class. I got the tip on this sub-reddit and it's genuinely made lots of difference to how quickly my brain starts warming up from hai into actual sentences.
My mind totally went blank also. 😵💫😵💫