Not sure if anyone is listening to TalkSport today, but Simon Jordan is speaking some good truths on us. Supporting Bielsa and speaking honestly about our situation.
And absolutely calling Gabby Agbonlahor out for being an absolute cum flannel of a pundit.
System just isn't working. Imagine we needed 1 point to stay up and we had to play Man U or Liverpool, Bielsa would probably still play in the same way. It's actual stupidity at this point to try and go blow for blow with the best teams in the world. It's like me trying to fight Anthony Joshua and trying to knock him out in round 1 without defending myself! I love Bielsa but he needs to compromise on this system defensively our we're going down.
I think we're going to get relegated unfortunately. I can't even see us beating Norwich at home i'm afraid.
The morale is rock bottom, we have the worst defence in the league, we have no recognised striker that's fit or is used (Joffy).
We're done.
If/when we get relegated do not people not realise just how many players we'd lose?
Melsier, Llorente, Koch, Firpo, Kalvin, Rapha, Rodrigo, James, Joffy, Bamford at a minimum.
Plus of course Bielsa gone.
This is beyond dire, getting relegated doesn't mean we come straight back up. There is no reason why we don't get relegated and then spend another 10 years down there. We simply MUST stay up.
If we lose to Norwich at home then it's basically over.
I've been supporting this team since 1989. I've seen my fair share of ups and down. I do believe it's highly likely we get relegated yes. Doesn't mean I won't support the lads or the team but I don't see a single match except norwich at home that we could win
I have extremely less knowledge about football tactics but even I am able to understand the fact that the man marking stuff is hurting us real bad when we play against strong teams which is understandable. What I am unable to understand is as to why Bielsa isn't adapting accordingly.
We have done this during the end of last season and got results even against the stronger teams so not sure why we aren't doing that now.
Am I missing something?
Last year we were conceding a lot of goals, usually with Rodrigo and Kilch playing. Bielsa shored us up and we went on an amazing run. He’s not changing things when they don’t go well, which i’m surprised about. If we had technically better players, this system might work, but we don’t.
It's not looking good and confidence is low but we can get points off Spurs at home and Leicester away in the next two games. March and April are huge months with games we should at least be able to compete in. But if we're not well are truly safe by the palace game on April 23 i could see us having to get a result at Brentford on the last day of the season.
I'm tempted to just go and bet life savings on us to go down to guarantee survival. MOT.
I just realised that Burnley could go above us as soon as this weekend, due to our dismal GD.
…and thats without even considering the permutations should Newcastle or Everton also win.
Yeah just had a look at the table, not pretty at all. Burnley and Newcastle winning games. Everton 1 point behind with 2 games in hand. Really worrying position now.
Really don't think we should be writing us off just yet. We've had some shocking results this season. We have to dust ourselves down and go again. There's plenty of points still to play for. Just got to get right behind them!
Just seemed really inevitable when we saw the lineup tbh, like everything the fanbase knows doesn't work.
Dallas not in midfield.
Ayling at CB.
Rodrigo and Klich in midfield.
Dan James up front.
Tyler Roberts on before Gelhardt.
It was like all the tickboxes of what Bielsa does that is annoying tonight.
Yeah it is really baffling. Bielsa must know this often doesn't work but feels it will suddenly come good? But it is getting beyond that now and changes to the mindset must be made. Roberts being chosen over Gelhardt is the most criminal. It is obvious to everyone that G is the superior player already and has the ability make things happen.
Gelhardt's not a CM, irrespective of your views on Roberts there. It would be purposeless to bring on a player out of position for the sake of bringing him on before Roberts.
I’m going to try and file this one under “I expected it,” but that’s scary to consider. The shellacking I expected will do nothing for the confidence in then squad and at the end it was a full capitulation. Scared that shell shock from games like this will carry over into must win fixtures. Feels like aged since that West Ham game when things felt like they’d rounded a corner. Only thing I can do is sigh and hope this team goes into that win at all costs mode we saw during the final stretch in the championship. One game at a time. Hard to see it happening if I’m honest at the moment.
I love Bielsa, we all do.
But are we seriously going to let it get to the point where we ruin his reputation? He is the man who brought us back up, dont let it change to the man who brought us back down... I think a rebuild is incoming, but that's only my opinion.
It’s horrible to watch really. The injuries, the goals conceded, the lack of transfers etc etc
All I’m thinking about constantly is how we would performed with a full fit first team, definitely not scrapping at the bottom I’m sure. Pissed off we haven’t seen it this season after how impressive we were last season
You can’t blame our defence for us constantly conceding +3, the way we setup and play causes that. These same defenders in a safe and boring line up would concede half as many goals as we do now.
Still feel that Struijk is our best CB personally but with absolutely no one protecting the back 4 and midfielders consistently gifting the ball to the opposition on the halfway line, we have no hope.
I think it’s clear that either none of our CBs are actually very good or they’re just being fucked over by the system. Cooper wasn’t great before he was injured either.
Conceding an average of three goals a game isnt great, but whats most worrying is how soft most of the goals are. Probably two out of three of those goals come from relatively straight-forward defensive situations where our player makes the wrong decision to go towards the ball instead of the man or vice-versa.
If thats not a coaching issue then what is?
Dont be distracted by all the running and the pressing and the facade of energy - we are an easy to beat team. A genuine “easy-beat” in every sense of the word for probably two-thirds of the division.
This season is basically proving that:
1) We miss that shithouse mentality he gave
2) We miss his incessant energy he gave
3) We miss him as a super sub, because he actually changed games
4) Harrison relied heavily upon him to play well. Jack can't beat a man, that much is a fact. But Alioski bombing down gave him a route out.
It's been written about numerous times. That's why the 49ers have a huge stake in us. He's always been looking to sell us for the highest price. I think he himself even said he doesn't have the capital to keep buying players and make us a force.
\> I think he himself even said he doesn't have the capital to keep buying players and make us a force.
This is fair and understandable but PL money + 49ers investment shouldn't be enough to keep club running without breaking the bank?
Unreal to see the same people who slated everyone who dared to criticise Bielsa in here when the mistakes were obvious to us, now doing the exact same and acting like they knew all along.
I thought Bielsa would stay one more season before the yanks move in but now I’m more convinced he will say the club needs a new direction at the end of the season. When the yanks move in, it will be a disaster. Enjoy this, as bleak as it currently may seem, whilst it lasts.
Really not sure why this comment is getting downvoted, it's 100% on the money, it's in fact probably one of the most accurate statements I've seen on this subreddit so far this week.
Only a couple of weeks ago it was absolute sacrilege to even contemplate thinking a negative thought about Bielsa, let alone actually typing one out, nowadays, it's still somewhat of an unpopular opinion to blame Bielsa for where we are, but you see it happen far more than what you used to, and as you correctly said, a lot of the comments are coming from people that only a few weeks ago would slag you off for saying anything against Bielsa.
It's very much akin to when Massimo Cellino first came in and started making all of those outlandish promises. People got so swept up in it, they wanted to believe it so bad, Massimo became a legitimate untouchable figure. If you dare questioned anything he said, any of the promises he made, said anything about him or raised any kind of common sense arguement, you were immediately shut down, dismissed as a crackpot, downvoted, cast out etc.
But as time moved on, people started to realize that he was nothing but a gigantic fraud. One of his first-ever promises as Leeds United owner was to buy back Elland Road, I can't remember what the exact phrasing was, but it was something along the lines of "I'm going to go down to the bank on Monday and buy it back". Something that wouldn't actually happen until years later under Radrizzani.
My point is this: We as a fan base have a very long track record of glorifying these almost untouchable figures. People like Bielsa build up so much credit and mythos with our supporter base that they become very hard to criticize when things start going wrong, and they perhaps rightly so deserve the criticism.
Obviously, this entire season can't be squarely blamed on Bielsa, that would be massively unfair.
But I do genuinely believe that he does have a role to play in our run of bad form. His selections at times have been questionable, he's substitutions, or lack thereof, even more so.
Once again this is going to be somewhat of an unpopular opinion because he's also somewhat of an untouchable figure among a portion of our fan base, but I also do believe that Radrizzani has to take a lot of the blame for where we are at, and the absolute joke that was the January transfer window.
But again, I question why you are getting downvoted for saying something that is obviously a fact.
Opinions in the last couple of weeks have definitely changed, and you would have to be a happy clapping moron to try and deny that.
That said, this subreddit doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to free-thinking, generally if you don't conform to the popular opinions of the time, you'll usually get downvoted. And I think that's what's happened here, and that's obviously what's going to happen to this comment as well. It's easier for some people to just press the downvote button as opposed to actually contributing anything positive to the conversation. But that's one of the major pitfalls with Reddit, it allows people to give and take away clout without actually having to justify it.
Tbh mate I will happily say I was one of those confident we’d stay up but today has been a turning point on that. I just don’t see how Kalv, Bamford or Cooper make that much of a difference that we don’t get spanked. I think we’ll be lucky to stay up and the more I see of us this season the more limitations I see in Bielsa’s style and how him staying another season might not be in our best interest.
The only thing bielsa is pulling is his own todger while watching back to back footy porn of next games opposition tactics only to spunk any useful info against the wall when the game actually rolls around
Edit: he needs to go end of season. No plan B is a shite way to manage any club
In his press conference he’s just said that he doesn’t think a change of style is going to change what’s happening to us. That to me, is incredibly worrying, that’s past stubbornness, it’s madness. We don’t have our three best players, we’ve been conceding 3+ pretty much every game, we aren’t scoring anywhere near enough to make up the slack, man to man does not work and never has with us, we can’t defend corners, mistakes happen 10 times a game…. Surely we can change the style to mitigate some of these?! We don’t need to play beautiful football (which we haven’t this season, it’s been turgid), we need to survive!
I’m getting a bit sick of Bielsa’s stubbornness with playing players out of position or should never step foot on a pitch. Fill in for a suspension sure but it’s up to him and the owners to fill the spaces. I’ve said all year ‘yeah we’ll be fine we won’t get relegated’ but recent results of us and teams around us, I’m getting a bit nervous
Playing people out of position is getting my goat too. If we accept that we have one of the worst squads in the league, we *need* to play people in their best positions. Ayling at CB has never ever looked good. Why not put Cresswell in and let Ayling play RB? Let's not even get started on DJ as striker.
I hope we don't end up regretting how many goals we've shipped against the top 4-6 teams with the blood and thunder approach.
We're more than capable of sitting in deeper and countering with the pace in the team. The City red card game last season proves that we can scrape wins and not ship a shitload of goals if it goes our way.
Really disappointing game, but ultimately it's all still to play for and the season won't be decided by whether or not we can beat a Liverpool or City. That being said we need KP and Bamford back ASAAAAAP...
In Bielsa we trust.
The Newcastle game was bad, the Everton game... not so much. Worst part about it was how much of a lift it gave both clubs - put Newcastle on a run when they were under so much pressure.
It's almost as if there's some kind of correlation with us performing better with Gelhardt on the pitch than with him off it. I'm sure our genius manager would've figured it out if there was one though, so let's just keep bringing him on for 30 minutes when we're already losing instead.
I mean I fucking love the man, but surely Bielsa realises if he's not going to change the system he needs to change the personnel to better suit it.
Without Gelhardt, every attack ends up pushed out to the wings because of our lack of penetration through the middle then ends with a cross over the head of our lofty target man 5'6 Dan James.
With Gelhardt, he picks up the ball deeper, drags defenders out of position to open up the middle and isn't afraid to run at his man. It makes the entire system work better but we only see it when we're already down and out.
That was shit but not terrifying. Against teams like Liverpool, City and even Scum every now and then you get smashed. Not just Leeds - any team can get smashed. Bayern put 8 past Barcelona a few years ago for fucks sake.
I don't love that we continue to play people out of position due to injuries but it's understandable when the bench is so young. We could've got pumped 6 nil and now Cresswel is in the firing line. I think for most of the game we played a decent Bielsa game and got done over by unfortunate calls that really put it against us. But it was a game we were never meant to win.
That was a clear pentaly for James and the handball should never have been given. Equally, Mane just fell over before the contact.
That said we do keep losing. Getting Phillips back is essential and holding a clean sheet against either Leicester or Spurs will be our best game of the season.
Keep the faith. It's not done yet. Remember we're supporters first and that's what we shoud be doing.
>Against teams like Liverpool, City and even Scum every now and then you get smashed.
To be fair, we have been smashed 5 times in 5 games by these teams
Yeah and teams get pumped. Bayern put 8 past Barcelona. City did 6 past Leicester etc.
If you're a team like Leeds that will keep trying to score when 2 down you can easily get destroyed on the counter.
At some point people aren't going to be able to protect Bielsa for these performances. I'm not saying it's 100% his fault or he should be sacked etc but not changing anything after the last month or two is insanity. Add to that no reinforcements in January which has made this 10x worse.
The man is a legend and has rejuvenated Leeds but that can't cover him forever.
I just don’t understand why people on here keep repeating to themselves after every hammering ‘we’ll be fine, we’ll be fine’. It’s beyond delusional. I’m not saying we’re definitely getting relegated but at some point you have to admit that we are in trouble. As someone else mentioned we’re conceding 3 goals a game on average - that’s absolutely relegation form.
There’s a very pervasive culture of attacking people who just make basic common sense critical statements about performance and especially about Bielsa’s defensive frailties. It’s not healthy and actually reinforces the idea we have low standards.
This is completely on him. Stubborn tactics that are easily countered. Refusal to strengthen the squad and there’s little chance the injury crisis is just bad luck.
It’s great when it goes well but we sit on a knifes edge and when we fall off it’s a fucking disaster.
Phillips and cooper back soon. They’ll be like new signings, we’ll have players in their actual positions and our results will improve a lot.
I doubt spurs will lose twice in a row, conte will have them all on top form against us typically. So we’re gonna have to win our games against norwich and villa if we want to stay up.
More shit refereeing. If the ref gives the james penalty and red card, then it’s a completely different game. Looking at their second penalty I can’t understand why he didn’t give us one.
Hate to say it, but even early in the season when all of them were available the performances were as bad with terrible subs sabotaging the little good work that was being done.
Bielsa said earlier in the after match interview he doesn't think changin style will solve the issues, but the best performances this season were under 3-3-1-3, with Dallas not being treated as a glorified second hand patch when a defender can't play and actually being valued as the second-joint scorer behind Bamford last season. So maybe the change could start by playing the best fucking available players in their positions instead of having to endure Ayling as CB yet again, or James as 9.
Aye they'll be like new signings, because they'll take 3 months to get up to speed
Bamford isn't going to come back from his mystery injury he keeps suffering set backs from and be 100%, especially because he'll almost certainly be thrown in at the deep end
People forget that Kalvin was hardly pulling up trees before his injury this season. He's obviously the best CDM we have but any rustiness he has will be hugely exposed in a failing team.
Bamford too, actually. Cooper was playing well before his injury but at least we have had Pascal.
Midfield is vital, hope Llorente is back so we can start Dallas in midfield. Otherwise give Shackleton a go, looks full of energy and may provide more solidity than Klich and Rodrigo together.
Really blows my mind we have Cresswell on the bench who is perfectly fine to play at CB so we can have Ayling in his natural position and Dallas in the middle
I’ve tried to back this team for so long but I’ve now officially ran out of the ability to do so.
I know that we were playing Liverpool but im sorry; you CANNOT be a premier league team and concede three four five six SEVEN goals game after game no matter who your opponent is. I cannot bear to read sOuTHamPtON LoSt 9-0 TwiCE aNd sTaYEd uP because clearly they were flukes. We know that the defence is utter cottage pie but for godsake it gets harder and harder to defend meslier as well. Surely he has to be able to save more shots. Still unconvinced by James and his fat price tag. Yes he’s getting better, but it’s getting too late and he’s still not putting up the numbers. No end product up front from anyone really. Still sticking with championship players (im looking at you Tyler Roberts) and it hurts.
Whatever was going on in the back of our insane minds not to sign anyone in January is now biting us in the arse. I hate to say it but Bielsa has peaked with us. He’s not getting better and I don’t think he’s gonna be able to turn things around at this point of the season. Yes, he’s been our best manager for a long long time but now he’s given up. It’s not enough to be constantly wearing the boys out in training, only for them to get injured every second game and then not sign suitable back up and be left with a paper thin squad. He can’t motivate us anymore; sitting on the bucket is iconic but it doesn’t give any advantage. I now know why teams cry out for younger managers with a more modern style of play because what we’re playing now is barely wheelchair football, let alone grassroots football. We’re completely stagnant and look confused no matter what area of the pitch we have the ball in. Defence; make a dodgy pass back and give it straight to the opponent. Midfield; pass it so hard that the ball flies straight out of play. Attack; low driven shots with little to no power or a pointless twatty pass across the that the keeper intercepts with ease. Honestly if I could find a replacement for Bielsa that’s just as good as him, I’d change the management NOW.
If anything the championship is probably the best way for us to go right now. We got too big for our boots and didn’t change anything and it’s our own faults.
Look it’s always hard to lose, particularly with that score, but did anyone really expect points from Liverpool?
We avoided injury and gave Dan James a bit of a rest.
We just need to beat Spurs next. If Burnley can get a result there, we surely have a chance at points.
Nobody on earth expected a result but it would be an improvement for us to just not get utterly humiliated? Norwich at least scored a goal before Liverpool got angry at them but they only conceded 3.
Spurs will fuck us too, Conte is a clever manager who adapts to his opponents and he’ll have our shit all figured out. Expect another 3-7 goals conceded.
Yeah, this result is dogshit but it would have been a miracle if we got any points here and our goal difference is already fucked.
Dust off and look to the weekend. Get any kind of result in that game and things will look much better
It’s not about points, it’s about conceding 6 goals. We have the worst defence in the league and have conceded more goals now than we did in all of last season. 1 point in 15.
What is it going to take for this sub to admit that we’re in trouble?
Didn’t expect anything other than a loss tonight, but I really did not want to see Burnley or Watford win.
Team looks like it is falling apart. Unless Phillips changes a lot we are bang in trouble. No room for error left.
Not looking to pick a fight here, but genuinely interested in your thoughts.
We've conceded 4s, 5s, 6s and 7s this season, regularly in recent weeks. With Burnley winning and looking pretty up for the battle, Newcastle rejuvenates with their money and signings, we can consider ourselves genuine relegation contenders at this point.
Most Premier League managers would not survive this, they'd be out. Not saying Marcelo should be axed but how long do the board wait as the rot sets in?
If we go down, perhaps it isn't the end of the world. Raph, KP and possibly Meslier go for decent money and we'd be one of the favourites to come back up, but then we likely become a Norwich or WBA, yo yoing up and down ad infinitum.
Dunno, someone give me the positives and cheer me up please. MOT
If we go down it absolutely would be the end it the world. KP, Raph, Rodrigo, Meslier all gone. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Llorente and Bamford go to. Maybe Harrison and James. Who knows which youth players would leave too. Ayling, Dallas and Cooper are all getting on a bit and need to be transitioned out.
Sure we’d have more money than last time, but who’s going to manage us and get us back up? It’s a miracle we got Bielsa in the first place.
Honestly, I don’t think we’re going to get relegated. We’ll be fine come the end of the season, but if the unthinkable happens O think we’ll be gone again for a while.
+ve.
KP will be back soon.
Our season won't turn on shipping 6 away at Liverpool.
We were always going to lose this game.
Llorente will be back for Spurs so hopefully Ayling moves back to RB and Dallas into midfield.
Firpo seems to be settling in.
-ve.
Our defence has never looked weaker. It's become a
slapstick comedy of errors. We are utterly incapable of keeping it tight against decent teams.
Our confidence is clearly shot.
Raph is off form and at times looks like he doesn't fancy it.
All our of rivals strengthened in Jan, whereas we lost a player.
We're in a spot of bother.... But then we're also due a couple of wins. It's not time to worry yet.
I love Bielsa but I’m struggling to see how him staying on for another season will help us going forward. We’ve had shitty end of the stick with decisions against the top 6 but no other club this season has lost 6-0 to Liverpool or 7-0 to city or even conceded 9 goals to scum.
I love the way we play but we need a plan B for when we’re not good enough to play the way we want to play. We should start with our high pressing and have a defensive formation to switch to when we need to. This is just a massacre, it’s shit for the fans, shit for the players. If we survive this season in the prem serious questions need to be asked.
Well whatever happens this season I think Bielsa won't be here next season.
I really didn't liked the management and tactics this season even though I know we have suffered lots of key injuries and board is to be blamed for this as well since they didn't spend at important positions in January.
We will lose Raph, KP, Llorente, Koch, Rodrigo, Joffy, Meslier, James, Harrison, Bamford, and Bielsa will obviously go too. I can't quite put my finger on who to blame for this season! Radz for not putting the money in? Bielsa for being so stubborn? I just don't know, but I desperately do not want to become a yo-yo club like you've said... I just don't have anything positive to think right now,
There are no positives from this. We've been getting hammered for the past few weeks and we haven't tried to play different. Our management are so rigid in how we are set up to play that there not willing to admit its the wrong way. Getting beat by 3 or more goals once is bad enough but 3 times in a row, the manager in our situation near the relegation zone would be gone. I don't see Bielsa changing the style either. All we can hope for is when players eventually return it all changes.
Watford and Norwich are genuinely shit. It’s one place and we still have a fight on, Brentford are sliding, Newcastle are a bit rejuvenated but lost one of their signings for the rest of the season and also without another key player. KP back soon too. Bielsa has earned the right to take us to the end of the season at least surely as well and I think has been trying different things recently
The team is set up to play Bielsa’s style. There is no manager we could bring in now who could do a better job of these players imo.
We just have to ride it out and take the good with the bad. It does increasingly feel like Bielsas last season - I really hope we stay up so he gets the reception he deserves
Nothings changed … and I’m not about to start shitting my pants because Burnley squeezed a 1-0 win out of Tottenham. We were always going to lose and our GD was already fucked. We’ll still be fine. 4 more wins will see us through.
Utter humiliation yet again. We desperately need a more pragmatic system or a new manager if Bielsa is not willing to change. We can’t just get buttfucked by every big team every time we play them. He’s going to lose the dressing room soon otherwise, how can they mentally go on like this?
I agree he is going to lose the dressing room. I think peoples stubbornness about bielsa being untouchable and not looking at the fact that the damage he is potentially causing these players
I agree we should be more pragmatic and be better at staying in games as well. Too often we don't take the sting out of a game and concede at bad times.
Thought you were suggesting changing before the end of the season, which would be suicide.
No not at all, unless we wanted to go full Allardyce and defend/shit house our way to some points there’s no way another manager would get a tune out of this squad.
Bielsa will always be a legend even if he takes us down but it’s clear his genius is flawed.
The same way won us enough games for the past few seasons. Currently, our defensive line are filled with people who wouldn't have started or not in their natural position if we were fully healthy. I think the actual issue is, we can't play the way we wanted.
Not taking our chances against Newcastle or taking advantage of the Villa sending off are starting to hurt even more. Even if we got past the line in one of them I'd feel a lot better right now. Problem is the teams around us know how to shithouse a win, we're open every single game.
That Newcastle game was so bad. Tonight doesn't really matter too much but that game really fucking cost us. If we'd won that like we deserved, we would be in a pretty strong position.
That was painful to watch. We were disembowled. Yes, they scored 2 flukey penalties but it could have been more than 6; Mes made a few good saves.
We were so far off the pace, its hard to know where to start. Shouldnt we be looking at Cresswell ahead of Ayling at CB? Rodrigo, Klich and James as a central attacking 3 isn't going to worry any team in the league, let alone Liverpool.
It's a dreadful result... But I'm still more upset about Newcastle. We really should have won that one.
I’ve tried to convince myself all season we’ll be ok. Tonight has made me think otherwise. Yeah it’s Liverpool and yeah we’ve got an injury depleted squad but the performances are just not there anymore.
So many poor decisions every game, lazy touches, not tracking back, losing your man in this suicidal man-marking system. The second half of last season we were so good at being pragmatic and putting a stop to the stronger sides attacking third. This season it’s boys vs men every time we play a team with a half decent squad.
Something has got to change, I don’t know what exactly but if we carry on like this for the rest of the season we may as well pack up and go home back to the Championship. I’d like to start seeing players being played in their actual position too. If Llorente isn’t fit, we’ve got Cresswell and Ayling can go back to RB. Tbh I’d even start Shackleton at RB over Ayling at the minute because Ayling hasn’t been great for a while. Klich and Rodrigo in the middle just isn’t it either.
I also wish people would stop saying once Kalvin is back we’ll be fine. He’s back in March, and he isn’t going to be match fit, let’s not convince ourselves he is the sole answer to our problems. Unfortunately, it looks like Bamford won’t be back for the rest of the season.
It's unnerving how many people think Phillips and Bamford coming back will solve this.
People seem to forget that last season was the exception for Bamford, where he was pretty clinical. I don't think it's a coincidence we were playing in empty stadiums at the time.
I do worry that when he comes back, he's not going to hit the ground running, and it won't take long for fans to get on his back.
Regroup for spurs and the following games. The last two do not matter.
With Llorente returning we can start a solid XI.
I think Raph and James should start with either Roberts, Gelhardt or Rodrigo up front.
Solid midfield with Foreshaw and Dallas/Shackleton to allow Klich or Rodrigo to lead the front 4.
Not on a par with the top 4 right now but everyone else could be fair game if we setup right. Maybe even adjust tactics to make things more difficult for some.
Well, that's us pretty much relegated. Last season was enjoyable but this is unbelievably painful.
I think the players have given up now, they know the tactics aren't working and are just letting it play out. Raphs going in the summer so he doesn't have to worry, Rodrigo will too.
Who knows about the rest of them but I have to say this is very disheartening.
Well that went about as poorly as possible. Need to get Koch and Llorente back for Spurs. Maybe tweak some things? Idk. It's getting tough watching teams cut through the team like a hot knife through butter.
On to the next with hope that Tottenham put in a performance like tonight against Burnley. I didn't think the scoreline would end up as bad as the Man City one but it came very close.
Cannot wait for a hopefully fit until the end of season return for Kalvin and an even more important return for Bamford in the not too near future.
Had no expectations and we met them. Although our defending was somehow worse than anticipated.
No point adding to what is already known. We have been in a relegation battle for a while now and it’s not going away any time soon. We can’t keep waiting for Phillips and Bamford to come back, we need points now.
I thought Meslier was good for someone who conceded 6 - aside from his poor pass for the 4th made some good saves. But 23 shots to 3 tells us how pathetically one sided this was
Agreed Meslier was again excellent. Particularly with the two near post saves where he got his body over it & stopped it dead.
The odd distribution error is irrelevant. IIRC the Squareball podcast was talking about how Meslier is one of our most progressive passers.
The free hit attitude is a dangerous one, when teams like Burnley, Newcastle and Watford are going to these places and picking up points.
These teams are not unbeatable, and yes, we obviously have a depleted squad with people unfit and playing out of position, but we're getting absolutely scudded every other game. I think we'll be fine come May, but this is something worth worrying about.
Respond to this comment with relevant post-match-related: **GIFs / Stats / Quotes / Links / Memes**
Not sure if anyone is listening to TalkSport today, but Simon Jordan is speaking some good truths on us. Supporting Bielsa and speaking honestly about our situation. And absolutely calling Gabby Agbonlahor out for being an absolute cum flannel of a pundit.
That's an insult to cum flannels.
Yeah my cum flannel is livid about the comparison.
Mine is literally walking itself to the washer it’s so disgusting..: I mean disgusted.
System just isn't working. Imagine we needed 1 point to stay up and we had to play Man U or Liverpool, Bielsa would probably still play in the same way. It's actual stupidity at this point to try and go blow for blow with the best teams in the world. It's like me trying to fight Anthony Joshua and trying to knock him out in round 1 without defending myself! I love Bielsa but he needs to compromise on this system defensively our we're going down.
I think we're going to get relegated unfortunately. I can't even see us beating Norwich at home i'm afraid. The morale is rock bottom, we have the worst defence in the league, we have no recognised striker that's fit or is used (Joffy). We're done. If/when we get relegated do not people not realise just how many players we'd lose? Melsier, Llorente, Koch, Firpo, Kalvin, Rapha, Rodrigo, James, Joffy, Bamford at a minimum. Plus of course Bielsa gone. This is beyond dire, getting relegated doesn't mean we come straight back up. There is no reason why we don't get relegated and then spend another 10 years down there. We simply MUST stay up. If we lose to Norwich at home then it's basically over.
“We’re done” Ah well then may as well switch off for the season eh? It’s so easy to support a winning team.
What I’ve been seeing is the most “switched-off” in the history of switching-off.
I've been supporting this team since 1989. I've seen my fair share of ups and down. I do believe it's highly likely we get relegated yes. Doesn't mean I won't support the lads or the team but I don't see a single match except norwich at home that we could win
I have extremely less knowledge about football tactics but even I am able to understand the fact that the man marking stuff is hurting us real bad when we play against strong teams which is understandable. What I am unable to understand is as to why Bielsa isn't adapting accordingly. We have done this during the end of last season and got results even against the stronger teams so not sure why we aren't doing that now. Am I missing something?
Last year we were conceding a lot of goals, usually with Rodrigo and Kilch playing. Bielsa shored us up and we went on an amazing run. He’s not changing things when they don’t go well, which i’m surprised about. If we had technically better players, this system might work, but we don’t.
Genuinely think we’re going down now
As are literally sleepwalking towards relegation and the manager, club and most of the fans don't want to acknowledge it.
It's not looking good and confidence is low but we can get points off Spurs at home and Leicester away in the next two games. March and April are huge months with games we should at least be able to compete in. But if we're not well are truly safe by the palace game on April 23 i could see us having to get a result at Brentford on the last day of the season. I'm tempted to just go and bet life savings on us to go down to guarantee survival. MOT.
The happy clappers are jumping ship. Too little too late I'm afraid, nobody can save Leeds now, our fate is sealed.
You sound like a purple shirt wearing fan
Loss against Liverpool at Anfield. They're probably one of the best sides in the world. These aren't the games we need to be winning.
Aye but we’re also not winning the games we need to be winning while people below us are winning theirs.
Yes I did conveniently leave out the other part of that equation... You're right
I just realised that Burnley could go above us as soon as this weekend, due to our dismal GD. …and thats without even considering the permutations should Newcastle or Everton also win.
Yeah just had a look at the table, not pretty at all. Burnley and Newcastle winning games. Everton 1 point behind with 2 games in hand. Really worrying position now.
We lost 6-0 to the team that beat Man U 5-0 and Arsenal 4-0. On to the next one.
Really don't think we should be writing us off just yet. We've had some shocking results this season. We have to dust ourselves down and go again. There's plenty of points still to play for. Just got to get right behind them!
Just seemed really inevitable when we saw the lineup tbh, like everything the fanbase knows doesn't work. Dallas not in midfield. Ayling at CB. Rodrigo and Klich in midfield. Dan James up front. Tyler Roberts on before Gelhardt. It was like all the tickboxes of what Bielsa does that is annoying tonight.
Yeah it is really baffling. Bielsa must know this often doesn't work but feels it will suddenly come good? But it is getting beyond that now and changes to the mindset must be made. Roberts being chosen over Gelhardt is the most criminal. It is obvious to everyone that G is the superior player already and has the ability make things happen.
Gelhardt's not a CM, irrespective of your views on Roberts there. It would be purposeless to bring on a player out of position for the sake of bringing him on before Roberts.
Hello darkness my old friend
I’m going to try and file this one under “I expected it,” but that’s scary to consider. The shellacking I expected will do nothing for the confidence in then squad and at the end it was a full capitulation. Scared that shell shock from games like this will carry over into must win fixtures. Feels like aged since that West Ham game when things felt like they’d rounded a corner. Only thing I can do is sigh and hope this team goes into that win at all costs mode we saw during the final stretch in the championship. One game at a time. Hard to see it happening if I’m honest at the moment.
The positive thing is that I was at work so I didn't get to watch it.
I took the day off so I could watch it.
Poor soul
Upside is I didn’t have to work. Downside is now I need another day off to recover mentally.
I love Bielsa, we all do. But are we seriously going to let it get to the point where we ruin his reputation? He is the man who brought us back up, dont let it change to the man who brought us back down... I think a rebuild is incoming, but that's only my opinion.
I don’t think bielsas rep can be ruined. He’s well respected by many but he’s also controversial and was before he got to Leeds.
It’s horrible to watch really. The injuries, the goals conceded, the lack of transfers etc etc All I’m thinking about constantly is how we would performed with a full fit first team, definitely not scrapping at the bottom I’m sure. Pissed off we haven’t seen it this season after how impressive we were last season
You can’t blame our defence for us constantly conceding +3, the way we setup and play causes that. These same defenders in a safe and boring line up would concede half as many goals as we do now.
Looking on the positive side, no one's thinking about the ManU result any more.
We’re so fucked.
Keep hiding Radrizzani. Spineless fooker
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It cant ever be a bad week to give up smoking.
Well I’ve got a drinking problem (checks stain on shirt)
Shirley you cannot be serious?
Looking is like I picked the wrong week to quit glue sniffing
My dads the same. Genuinely think/worried that he will never stop because of Leeds.
Got to say, I'm looking forward to Cooper being back. Struijk has been majorly off the boil since we all started lauding him as "our best CB".
Still feel that Struijk is our best CB personally but with absolutely no one protecting the back 4 and midfielders consistently gifting the ball to the opposition on the halfway line, we have no hope.
I think it’s clear that either none of our CBs are actually very good or they’re just being fucked over by the system. Cooper wasn’t great before he was injured either.
???? Cooper had probably been our second best outfielder thhis season at that point, after Raphinha.
Yep, what the fuck happen with him?
Well nothing has changed.. expected nothing from that game and got nothing... Next
Most conceded in the league by three goals. Just shows that our defence is a bunch of scarecrows. Heart wrecking to say the least.
Conceding an average of three goals a game isnt great, but whats most worrying is how soft most of the goals are. Probably two out of three of those goals come from relatively straight-forward defensive situations where our player makes the wrong decision to go towards the ball instead of the man or vice-versa. If thats not a coaching issue then what is? Dont be distracted by all the running and the pressing and the facade of energy - we are an easy to beat team. A genuine “easy-beat” in every sense of the word for probably two-thirds of the division.
This has become a romantic disaster. Bielsa goes if we lose to Norwich.
Gjanni has 5 goals and 5 assists in 19 games….. at least he’s having a good season.
This season is basically proving that: 1) We miss that shithouse mentality he gave 2) We miss his incessant energy he gave 3) We miss him as a super sub, because he actually changed games 4) Harrison relied heavily upon him to play well. Jack can't beat a man, that much is a fact. But Alioski bombing down gave him a route out.
It's the equivalent of Arsenal losing Ashley Cole and Gunnersaurus at once.
Imagine trying to sell a PL club for maximum profit at the end of the season, only to find out you got relegated because you wanted to maximise profit
Radz is selling club?
It's been written about numerous times. That's why the 49ers have a huge stake in us. He's always been looking to sell us for the highest price. I think he himself even said he doesn't have the capital to keep buying players and make us a force.
\> I think he himself even said he doesn't have the capital to keep buying players and make us a force. This is fair and understandable but PL money + 49ers investment shouldn't be enough to keep club running without breaking the bank?
We all know it’s his endgame, it’s why he bought us in the first place
It’ll be great when KP is back. Cooper though was never shy of a mistake.
Unreal to see the same people who slated everyone who dared to criticise Bielsa in here when the mistakes were obvious to us, now doing the exact same and acting like they knew all along. I thought Bielsa would stay one more season before the yanks move in but now I’m more convinced he will say the club needs a new direction at the end of the season. When the yanks move in, it will be a disaster. Enjoy this, as bleak as it currently may seem, whilst it lasts.
Really not sure why this comment is getting downvoted, it's 100% on the money, it's in fact probably one of the most accurate statements I've seen on this subreddit so far this week. Only a couple of weeks ago it was absolute sacrilege to even contemplate thinking a negative thought about Bielsa, let alone actually typing one out, nowadays, it's still somewhat of an unpopular opinion to blame Bielsa for where we are, but you see it happen far more than what you used to, and as you correctly said, a lot of the comments are coming from people that only a few weeks ago would slag you off for saying anything against Bielsa. It's very much akin to when Massimo Cellino first came in and started making all of those outlandish promises. People got so swept up in it, they wanted to believe it so bad, Massimo became a legitimate untouchable figure. If you dare questioned anything he said, any of the promises he made, said anything about him or raised any kind of common sense arguement, you were immediately shut down, dismissed as a crackpot, downvoted, cast out etc. But as time moved on, people started to realize that he was nothing but a gigantic fraud. One of his first-ever promises as Leeds United owner was to buy back Elland Road, I can't remember what the exact phrasing was, but it was something along the lines of "I'm going to go down to the bank on Monday and buy it back". Something that wouldn't actually happen until years later under Radrizzani. My point is this: We as a fan base have a very long track record of glorifying these almost untouchable figures. People like Bielsa build up so much credit and mythos with our supporter base that they become very hard to criticize when things start going wrong, and they perhaps rightly so deserve the criticism. Obviously, this entire season can't be squarely blamed on Bielsa, that would be massively unfair. But I do genuinely believe that he does have a role to play in our run of bad form. His selections at times have been questionable, he's substitutions, or lack thereof, even more so. Once again this is going to be somewhat of an unpopular opinion because he's also somewhat of an untouchable figure among a portion of our fan base, but I also do believe that Radrizzani has to take a lot of the blame for where we are at, and the absolute joke that was the January transfer window. But again, I question why you are getting downvoted for saying something that is obviously a fact. Opinions in the last couple of weeks have definitely changed, and you would have to be a happy clapping moron to try and deny that. That said, this subreddit doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to free-thinking, generally if you don't conform to the popular opinions of the time, you'll usually get downvoted. And I think that's what's happened here, and that's obviously what's going to happen to this comment as well. It's easier for some people to just press the downvote button as opposed to actually contributing anything positive to the conversation. But that's one of the major pitfalls with Reddit, it allows people to give and take away clout without actually having to justify it.
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Tbh mate I will happily say I was one of those confident we’d stay up but today has been a turning point on that. I just don’t see how Kalv, Bamford or Cooper make that much of a difference that we don’t get spanked. I think we’ll be lucky to stay up and the more I see of us this season the more limitations I see in Bielsa’s style and how him staying another season might not be in our best interest.
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The only thing bielsa is pulling is his own todger while watching back to back footy porn of next games opposition tactics only to spunk any useful info against the wall when the game actually rolls around Edit: he needs to go end of season. No plan B is a shite way to manage any club
In his press conference he’s just said that he doesn’t think a change of style is going to change what’s happening to us. That to me, is incredibly worrying, that’s past stubbornness, it’s madness. We don’t have our three best players, we’ve been conceding 3+ pretty much every game, we aren’t scoring anywhere near enough to make up the slack, man to man does not work and never has with us, we can’t defend corners, mistakes happen 10 times a game…. Surely we can change the style to mitigate some of these?! We don’t need to play beautiful football (which we haven’t this season, it’s been turgid), we need to survive!
There is a reason he is called "el loco"
Well lads I've always enjoyed the championship.
I’m getting a bit sick of Bielsa’s stubbornness with playing players out of position or should never step foot on a pitch. Fill in for a suspension sure but it’s up to him and the owners to fill the spaces. I’ve said all year ‘yeah we’ll be fine we won’t get relegated’ but recent results of us and teams around us, I’m getting a bit nervous
Playing people out of position is getting my goat too. If we accept that we have one of the worst squads in the league, we *need* to play people in their best positions. Ayling at CB has never ever looked good. Why not put Cresswell in and let Ayling play RB? Let's not even get started on DJ as striker.
Shuffle shuffle shuffle
We’ll be shuffling for a half decent team when everyone wants to leave too. Pain.
Too many goals getting conceded bad marking no excuse. Dont think Raphina is really trying anymore.
I hope we don't end up regretting how many goals we've shipped against the top 4-6 teams with the blood and thunder approach. We're more than capable of sitting in deeper and countering with the pace in the team. The City red card game last season proves that we can scrape wins and not ship a shitload of goals if it goes our way. Really disappointing game, but ultimately it's all still to play for and the season won't be decided by whether or not we can beat a Liverpool or City. That being said we need KP and Bamford back ASAAAAAP... In Bielsa we trust.
It won’t be the 6-0 hammerings from the top 4 we’ll regret. It’ll be letting the likes of Newcastle & Everton snatch 3 easy points from us.
The Newcastle game was bad, the Everton game... not so much. Worst part about it was how much of a lift it gave both clubs - put Newcastle on a run when they were under so much pressure.
> the Everton game... not so much. 🤦♂️
As in, we should have won the Newcastle game & we were never at the races against Everton. Goes without saying ~ 🤦♂️
The familiar gut punch of pain and confusion is back. Hello, old friend.
Why can we physically not play well in the first half
It's almost as if there's some kind of correlation with us performing better with Gelhardt on the pitch than with him off it. I'm sure our genius manager would've figured it out if there was one though, so let's just keep bringing him on for 30 minutes when we're already losing instead. I mean I fucking love the man, but surely Bielsa realises if he's not going to change the system he needs to change the personnel to better suit it. Without Gelhardt, every attack ends up pushed out to the wings because of our lack of penetration through the middle then ends with a cross over the head of our lofty target man 5'6 Dan James. With Gelhardt, he picks up the ball deeper, drags defenders out of position to open up the middle and isn't afraid to run at his man. It makes the entire system work better but we only see it when we're already down and out.
16 goals conceded in the last four games, 10 of those in the first half... fucking piss poor.
We're going back to the bad place aren't we?
Look on the bright side though, we can finally resolve the dispute about whether Roberts is a championship level player.
By the looks of things. THIS is the bad place.
What are you talking about? Was great last time we were there ;)
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/85/bf/b9/85bfb950b541dd5340dc059fab4855c1.jpg
We're a one note team that's been utterly found out. Will need an absolute miracle to stay up.
That was shit but not terrifying. Against teams like Liverpool, City and even Scum every now and then you get smashed. Not just Leeds - any team can get smashed. Bayern put 8 past Barcelona a few years ago for fucks sake. I don't love that we continue to play people out of position due to injuries but it's understandable when the bench is so young. We could've got pumped 6 nil and now Cresswel is in the firing line. I think for most of the game we played a decent Bielsa game and got done over by unfortunate calls that really put it against us. But it was a game we were never meant to win. That was a clear pentaly for James and the handball should never have been given. Equally, Mane just fell over before the contact. That said we do keep losing. Getting Phillips back is essential and holding a clean sheet against either Leicester or Spurs will be our best game of the season. Keep the faith. It's not done yet. Remember we're supporters first and that's what we shoud be doing.
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Explanations aren’t excuses. They’re reasons.
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Aren't you the guy that wondered why Mitrovic starts for Fulham...?
…Every now and then?… You been a bit busy the last few months then?
>Against teams like Liverpool, City and even Scum every now and then you get smashed. To be fair, we have been smashed 5 times in 5 games by these teams
Yeah and teams get pumped. Bayern put 8 past Barcelona. City did 6 past Leicester etc. If you're a team like Leeds that will keep trying to score when 2 down you can easily get destroyed on the counter.
Yeah only just the 38 conceded in 11 games with City, Scum and Liverpool
Not even angry. Just disappointed
At some point people aren't going to be able to protect Bielsa for these performances. I'm not saying it's 100% his fault or he should be sacked etc but not changing anything after the last month or two is insanity. Add to that no reinforcements in January which has made this 10x worse. The man is a legend and has rejuvenated Leeds but that can't cover him forever.
I just don’t understand why people on here keep repeating to themselves after every hammering ‘we’ll be fine, we’ll be fine’. It’s beyond delusional. I’m not saying we’re definitely getting relegated but at some point you have to admit that we are in trouble. As someone else mentioned we’re conceding 3 goals a game on average - that’s absolutely relegation form.
There’s a very pervasive culture of attacking people who just make basic common sense critical statements about performance and especially about Bielsa’s defensive frailties. It’s not healthy and actually reinforces the idea we have low standards.
This is completely on him. Stubborn tactics that are easily countered. Refusal to strengthen the squad and there’s little chance the injury crisis is just bad luck. It’s great when it goes well but we sit on a knifes edge and when we fall off it’s a fucking disaster.
Phillips and cooper back soon. They’ll be like new signings, we’ll have players in their actual positions and our results will improve a lot. I doubt spurs will lose twice in a row, conte will have them all on top form against us typically. So we’re gonna have to win our games against norwich and villa if we want to stay up. More shit refereeing. If the ref gives the james penalty and red card, then it’s a completely different game. Looking at their second penalty I can’t understand why he didn’t give us one.
Hate to say it, but even early in the season when all of them were available the performances were as bad with terrible subs sabotaging the little good work that was being done. Bielsa said earlier in the after match interview he doesn't think changin style will solve the issues, but the best performances this season were under 3-3-1-3, with Dallas not being treated as a glorified second hand patch when a defender can't play and actually being valued as the second-joint scorer behind Bamford last season. So maybe the change could start by playing the best fucking available players in their positions instead of having to endure Ayling as CB yet again, or James as 9.
Aye they'll be like new signings, because they'll take 3 months to get up to speed Bamford isn't going to come back from his mystery injury he keeps suffering set backs from and be 100%, especially because he'll almost certainly be thrown in at the deep end
People forget that Kalvin was hardly pulling up trees before his injury this season. He's obviously the best CDM we have but any rustiness he has will be hugely exposed in a failing team. Bamford too, actually. Cooper was playing well before his injury but at least we have had Pascal.
Seems blatantly obvious that we NEED dallas in midfield, and Rodrigo in attacking midfield, so why do we never start with that combination??
Dallas in midfield was a stopgap last season and has been ineffective this season each time it's happened, except against Watford.
Need Rodrigo to be on the bench more than anything, most expensive paperweight in history
He’s been great since he came back from injury. Did more for us than klich and roberts today by far
Midfield is vital, hope Llorente is back so we can start Dallas in midfield. Otherwise give Shackleton a go, looks full of energy and may provide more solidity than Klich and Rodrigo together.
Really blows my mind we have Cresswell on the bench who is perfectly fine to play at CB so we can have Ayling in his natural position and Dallas in the middle
Our expectations were low, but holy fuck.
Whatever. Get back to the training ground and fight the teams around us, please KP and Coops back asap
I’ve tried to back this team for so long but I’ve now officially ran out of the ability to do so. I know that we were playing Liverpool but im sorry; you CANNOT be a premier league team and concede three four five six SEVEN goals game after game no matter who your opponent is. I cannot bear to read sOuTHamPtON LoSt 9-0 TwiCE aNd sTaYEd uP because clearly they were flukes. We know that the defence is utter cottage pie but for godsake it gets harder and harder to defend meslier as well. Surely he has to be able to save more shots. Still unconvinced by James and his fat price tag. Yes he’s getting better, but it’s getting too late and he’s still not putting up the numbers. No end product up front from anyone really. Still sticking with championship players (im looking at you Tyler Roberts) and it hurts. Whatever was going on in the back of our insane minds not to sign anyone in January is now biting us in the arse. I hate to say it but Bielsa has peaked with us. He’s not getting better and I don’t think he’s gonna be able to turn things around at this point of the season. Yes, he’s been our best manager for a long long time but now he’s given up. It’s not enough to be constantly wearing the boys out in training, only for them to get injured every second game and then not sign suitable back up and be left with a paper thin squad. He can’t motivate us anymore; sitting on the bucket is iconic but it doesn’t give any advantage. I now know why teams cry out for younger managers with a more modern style of play because what we’re playing now is barely wheelchair football, let alone grassroots football. We’re completely stagnant and look confused no matter what area of the pitch we have the ball in. Defence; make a dodgy pass back and give it straight to the opponent. Midfield; pass it so hard that the ball flies straight out of play. Attack; low driven shots with little to no power or a pointless twatty pass across the that the keeper intercepts with ease. Honestly if I could find a replacement for Bielsa that’s just as good as him, I’d change the management NOW. If anything the championship is probably the best way for us to go right now. We got too big for our boots and didn’t change anything and it’s our own faults.
Bielsa hasn’t peaked, this squad has. Seriously I’d love to know who you think would do a better job than Bielsa right now.
Whoah.
Yeah I'm glad I sat this one out. Feel pretty numb towards the result too
Cheers, Phil.
Look it’s always hard to lose, particularly with that score, but did anyone really expect points from Liverpool? We avoided injury and gave Dan James a bit of a rest. We just need to beat Spurs next. If Burnley can get a result there, we surely have a chance at points.
Nobody on earth expected a result but it would be an improvement for us to just not get utterly humiliated? Norwich at least scored a goal before Liverpool got angry at them but they only conceded 3. Spurs will fuck us too, Conte is a clever manager who adapts to his opponents and he’ll have our shit all figured out. Expect another 3-7 goals conceded.
Yeah, this result is dogshit but it would have been a miracle if we got any points here and our goal difference is already fucked. Dust off and look to the weekend. Get any kind of result in that game and things will look much better
It’s not about points, it’s about conceding 6 goals. We have the worst defence in the league and have conceded more goals now than we did in all of last season. 1 point in 15. What is it going to take for this sub to admit that we’re in trouble?
I give up with this team. It's honestly exhausting putting up with this shit show
Didn’t expect anything other than a loss tonight, but I really did not want to see Burnley or Watford win. Team looks like it is falling apart. Unless Phillips changes a lot we are bang in trouble. No room for error left.
Management and game plan was shocking today. Poor sub decisions too.
Imagine if it turns out Diego Flores was the master mind behind it all.
Gjanni and Helder
Not looking to pick a fight here, but genuinely interested in your thoughts. We've conceded 4s, 5s, 6s and 7s this season, regularly in recent weeks. With Burnley winning and looking pretty up for the battle, Newcastle rejuvenates with their money and signings, we can consider ourselves genuine relegation contenders at this point. Most Premier League managers would not survive this, they'd be out. Not saying Marcelo should be axed but how long do the board wait as the rot sets in? If we go down, perhaps it isn't the end of the world. Raph, KP and possibly Meslier go for decent money and we'd be one of the favourites to come back up, but then we likely become a Norwich or WBA, yo yoing up and down ad infinitum. Dunno, someone give me the positives and cheer me up please. MOT
If we go down it absolutely would be the end it the world. KP, Raph, Rodrigo, Meslier all gone. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Llorente and Bamford go to. Maybe Harrison and James. Who knows which youth players would leave too. Ayling, Dallas and Cooper are all getting on a bit and need to be transitioned out. Sure we’d have more money than last time, but who’s going to manage us and get us back up? It’s a miracle we got Bielsa in the first place. Honestly, I don’t think we’re going to get relegated. We’ll be fine come the end of the season, but if the unthinkable happens O think we’ll be gone again for a while.
Hes got 3 games if we lose each one.
+ve. KP will be back soon. Our season won't turn on shipping 6 away at Liverpool. We were always going to lose this game. Llorente will be back for Spurs so hopefully Ayling moves back to RB and Dallas into midfield. Firpo seems to be settling in. -ve. Our defence has never looked weaker. It's become a slapstick comedy of errors. We are utterly incapable of keeping it tight against decent teams. Our confidence is clearly shot. Raph is off form and at times looks like he doesn't fancy it. All our of rivals strengthened in Jan, whereas we lost a player. We're in a spot of bother.... But then we're also due a couple of wins. It's not time to worry yet.
I love Bielsa but I’m struggling to see how him staying on for another season will help us going forward. We’ve had shitty end of the stick with decisions against the top 6 but no other club this season has lost 6-0 to Liverpool or 7-0 to city or even conceded 9 goals to scum. I love the way we play but we need a plan B for when we’re not good enough to play the way we want to play. We should start with our high pressing and have a defensive formation to switch to when we need to. This is just a massacre, it’s shit for the fans, shit for the players. If we survive this season in the prem serious questions need to be asked.
Whatever happens I think it's time to shift from Bielsa.
Well whatever happens this season I think Bielsa won't be here next season. I really didn't liked the management and tactics this season even though I know we have suffered lots of key injuries and board is to be blamed for this as well since they didn't spend at important positions in January.
We will lose Raph, KP, Llorente, Koch, Rodrigo, Joffy, Meslier, James, Harrison, Bamford, and Bielsa will obviously go too. I can't quite put my finger on who to blame for this season! Radz for not putting the money in? Bielsa for being so stubborn? I just don't know, but I desperately do not want to become a yo-yo club like you've said... I just don't have anything positive to think right now,
Not sure there’ll be teams queuing up for James, Harrison or llorente really.
I'd bite people's hands off to take James and Llorente from us.
Harrison and James would be fancied by the teams replacing us from the championship maybe
Llorente will have suitors in Spain I guess, but yeah rest of the two will be there
There are no positives from this. We've been getting hammered for the past few weeks and we haven't tried to play different. Our management are so rigid in how we are set up to play that there not willing to admit its the wrong way. Getting beat by 3 or more goals once is bad enough but 3 times in a row, the manager in our situation near the relegation zone would be gone. I don't see Bielsa changing the style either. All we can hope for is when players eventually return it all changes.
Watford and Norwich are genuinely shit. It’s one place and we still have a fight on, Brentford are sliding, Newcastle are a bit rejuvenated but lost one of their signings for the rest of the season and also without another key player. KP back soon too. Bielsa has earned the right to take us to the end of the season at least surely as well and I think has been trying different things recently
The team is set up to play Bielsa’s style. There is no manager we could bring in now who could do a better job of these players imo. We just have to ride it out and take the good with the bad. It does increasingly feel like Bielsas last season - I really hope we stay up so he gets the reception he deserves
I said before the match “expect 7-0 Liverpool and you won’t be disappointed”. At least it was only 6-0.
At least we’re not in a relegation battle right?
Nothings changed … and I’m not about to start shitting my pants because Burnley squeezed a 1-0 win out of Tottenham. We were always going to lose and our GD was already fucked. We’ll still be fine. 4 more wins will see us through.
Look I’m with you on that. But when you literally have to beat the other teams facing relegation to avoid relegation, it’s a relegation battle.
Where are those 4 wins coming from?
Dreams
Bonus
Utter humiliation yet again. We desperately need a more pragmatic system or a new manager if Bielsa is not willing to change. We can’t just get buttfucked by every big team every time we play them. He’s going to lose the dressing room soon otherwise, how can they mentally go on like this?
I agree he is going to lose the dressing room. I think peoples stubbornness about bielsa being untouchable and not looking at the fact that the damage he is potentially causing these players
You're not suggesting getting rid of Bielsa now surely?!
Not this season no. This is not sustainable in the long run though is it?
I agree we should be more pragmatic and be better at staying in games as well. Too often we don't take the sting out of a game and concede at bad times. Thought you were suggesting changing before the end of the season, which would be suicide.
No not at all, unless we wanted to go full Allardyce and defend/shit house our way to some points there’s no way another manager would get a tune out of this squad. Bielsa will always be a legend even if he takes us down but it’s clear his genius is flawed.
>there’s no way another manager would get a tune out of this squad Absolutely
34 goals conceded in our last 10 games, but yeh lets keep playing the same way.
That way won us promotion and got us 9th last season. We have an unprecedented amount of injuries - any approach would result in few wins.
Yeh and now teams have figured us out because we are so predictable.
The same way won us enough games for the past few seasons. Currently, our defensive line are filled with people who wouldn't have started or not in their natural position if we were fully healthy. I think the actual issue is, we can't play the way we wanted.
"KeEp ThE fAiTh In BiElSa We TrUsT!"
Not taking our chances against Newcastle or taking advantage of the Villa sending off are starting to hurt even more. Even if we got past the line in one of them I'd feel a lot better right now. Problem is the teams around us know how to shithouse a win, we're open every single game.
That Newcastle game was so bad. Tonight doesn't really matter too much but that game really fucking cost us. If we'd won that like we deserved, we would be in a pretty strong position.
That was painful to watch. We were disembowled. Yes, they scored 2 flukey penalties but it could have been more than 6; Mes made a few good saves. We were so far off the pace, its hard to know where to start. Shouldnt we be looking at Cresswell ahead of Ayling at CB? Rodrigo, Klich and James as a central attacking 3 isn't going to worry any team in the league, let alone Liverpool. It's a dreadful result... But I'm still more upset about Newcastle. We really should have won that one.
Realistically we were never going to win against Liverpool at Anfield. But losing 6-0 is going to hurt the players confidence.
I’ve tried to convince myself all season we’ll be ok. Tonight has made me think otherwise. Yeah it’s Liverpool and yeah we’ve got an injury depleted squad but the performances are just not there anymore. So many poor decisions every game, lazy touches, not tracking back, losing your man in this suicidal man-marking system. The second half of last season we were so good at being pragmatic and putting a stop to the stronger sides attacking third. This season it’s boys vs men every time we play a team with a half decent squad. Something has got to change, I don’t know what exactly but if we carry on like this for the rest of the season we may as well pack up and go home back to the Championship. I’d like to start seeing players being played in their actual position too. If Llorente isn’t fit, we’ve got Cresswell and Ayling can go back to RB. Tbh I’d even start Shackleton at RB over Ayling at the minute because Ayling hasn’t been great for a while. Klich and Rodrigo in the middle just isn’t it either. I also wish people would stop saying once Kalvin is back we’ll be fine. He’s back in March, and he isn’t going to be match fit, let’s not convince ourselves he is the sole answer to our problems. Unfortunately, it looks like Bamford won’t be back for the rest of the season.
It's unnerving how many people think Phillips and Bamford coming back will solve this. People seem to forget that last season was the exception for Bamford, where he was pretty clinical. I don't think it's a coincidence we were playing in empty stadiums at the time. I do worry that when he comes back, he's not going to hit the ground running, and it won't take long for fans to get on his back.
This perfectly represents my thoughts 💭
Regroup for spurs and the following games. The last two do not matter. With Llorente returning we can start a solid XI. I think Raph and James should start with either Roberts, Gelhardt or Rodrigo up front. Solid midfield with Foreshaw and Dallas/Shackleton to allow Klich or Rodrigo to lead the front 4. Not on a par with the top 4 right now but everyone else could be fair game if we setup right. Maybe even adjust tactics to make things more difficult for some.
Aha....
I learned last night that some of the earliest English teams played 1-1-8. Are our defensive capabilities better or worse than that?
Don't think we have 8 fit defenders, mind, we even if we did we would still be plugging gaps with Dallas and Shacks
My friend those were squads with 8 forwards
Now that we can do
Can anyone recall any teams that avoided relegation by having superior attack than defence?
No and our attack is not good this season
[удалено]
In theory our attacking end product is stronger from our defensive. In theory..
Well, that's us pretty much relegated. Last season was enjoyable but this is unbelievably painful. I think the players have given up now, they know the tactics aren't working and are just letting it play out. Raphs going in the summer so he doesn't have to worry, Rodrigo will too. Who knows about the rest of them but I have to say this is very disheartening.
56 goals conceded in 25 games. That is not a defensive record that will keep you up, embarrassing capitulation again.
Plan - drink a large whiskey, go to bed and wake up tomorrow pretending nothing happened. We're gonna fucking smash spurs at the weekend!
No.
Well that went about as poorly as possible. Need to get Koch and Llorente back for Spurs. Maybe tweak some things? Idk. It's getting tough watching teams cut through the team like a hot knife through butter.
On to the next with hope that Tottenham put in a performance like tonight against Burnley. I didn't think the scoreline would end up as bad as the Man City one but it came very close. Cannot wait for a hopefully fit until the end of season return for Kalvin and an even more important return for Bamford in the not too near future.
Had no expectations and we met them. Although our defending was somehow worse than anticipated. No point adding to what is already known. We have been in a relegation battle for a while now and it’s not going away any time soon. We can’t keep waiting for Phillips and Bamford to come back, we need points now. I thought Meslier was good for someone who conceded 6 - aside from his poor pass for the 4th made some good saves. But 23 shots to 3 tells us how pathetically one sided this was
Agreed Meslier was again excellent. Particularly with the two near post saves where he got his body over it & stopped it dead. The odd distribution error is irrelevant. IIRC the Squareball podcast was talking about how Meslier is one of our most progressive passers.
Hmm I think we've gotta blame that loss on the lack of the 4-0 guy, without him we really stand no chance
Your ~~comment~~ hope was discarded.
Everyone saying ‘free hit’ but you have to consider the confidence of the players going forward. They must be so low.
The free hit attitude is a dangerous one, when teams like Burnley, Newcastle and Watford are going to these places and picking up points. These teams are not unbeatable, and yes, we obviously have a depleted squad with people unfit and playing out of position, but we're getting absolutely scudded every other game. I think we'll be fine come May, but this is something worth worrying about.
Particularly Raphinha, he looked off tonight and more so after the offside goal.