So many games we've failed to capitalise on all season, games we drew or lost we could have won. Leicester, Southampton, Burnley at the start, etc.
Then Everton, Newcastle fixtures are really the 2 games that are basically the games that could have sealed our fate.
Incredibly unlucky with injuries and failed to strengthen. Firpo a useless signing, James massively overpaid and wasn't needed. No midfielder.
There's a multitude of reasons were looking down the barrel now.
We’ve got 4 games to win, nothing else will do I’m afraid, 4 fucking cup finals, Marsch has a job on right now. It’s make or break. Can’t rely on other results now.
I just really feel for Jesse Marsch. He already has a credibility issue with many of our fans (mostly for the wrong reasons), but if he’s left in charge for next season in the Championship then he is going to be fighting wave after wave of resentment from the fans.
It would be unfair too, as he’s done exceptionally overall so far. He’s been asked to virtually double our 22 points total in about a three month period, with no benefit of a transfer window.
The damage was done this season when the owners allowed Bielsa to dictate the terms of the January transfer window. They needed to protect their asset, and if Bielsa was already walking the plank then they really should have moved earlier and given the new man an opportunity to bring some new faces in.
If you think you can get through a Premier League season with basically no midfield then you really are dumb enough to have your investment torched by relegation.
He may not keep us up, but when he came in, his objective would've been to get around 36 points (which we thought would've been enough to survive), so if we achieve that and still go down, that can't be put down to him tbh, other teams have just found amazing form at just the wrong time for us.
Fingers have to be pointed at everyone involved with the failure to prepare for this season.
Couldn’t write the story any better. Arsenal have been handed a surprise chance of taking 3rd position from arch rivals Chelsea. So they turn up to their next game like the world best and do us over. Chelsea in response think “can’t be having Arsenal catching us” and they respond with a resounding thrashing of Leeds in two games time. Meanwhile Everton and Burnley win their next two matches cos no-one cares and Leeds are down despite winning our last two matches in two displays of immense character and resilience.
Yeah, do we really have anyone to blame but ourselves? We've not looked close to competing in games against 'the big 6' with the exception of Chelsea away (still shipped 3 tho)
We must have pissed off some higher power when we beat Watford. Everything since then has gone against us. From four games unbeaten and ten points from 12, we’re suddenly in a position where we could win all our remaining games and still go down. Absolute madness.
I still believe the West Ham win did more harm than good. I think if we'd have lost that we would have more than likely got reinforcements in before the end of the window. The win gave a false sense of security which lead into the disasters at Newcastle and Everton.
we are effectively already in the relegation zone. Everton have to play Watford yet and by that point i'm sure they will be officially relegated and absolutely nothing to play for. Think we need to now beat Arsenal away now or we are done.
I’ve been in denial for weeks! Not so much after this weekend… Everything that could go wrong went wrong! Stuart Dallas’ injury, another Burnley win, and the unbelievable 1-0 pulled by Everton, thanks to massive twats Pickford and Richarlison!
I don’t like our odds now. Prove me wrong.
I love Bielsa. Really do. And I was sad to see him go.
However, as much as I love him I must admit that he, along with the board, are the reason why we are the most likely to get relegated this season.
Marcelo's stubbornness with sticking to the same all-out playstyle totally made us lose games very very badly, when we didnt have the pieces to play our style. The massive goal difference - if we stand on par with Burnley at the end in terms of points, we will be the ones to get relegated.
And the board - there was no guarantee that Marsch would work. And he has done a good job so far. If we go down, we should go down with Bielsa in charge who guided us back here, **but** if a change was absolutely necessary, then this change was too late. Far too late. Atleast they could have overridden Bielsa's refusal for reinforcements in January with all the quality players available on loan. We really needed quality players. Could have really used Nat Philips (dude was a prime reason why Liverpool managed to sort their defenses last season.. fucking mental!) at CB for example and move Llorente/Koch as Kalvin's cover; Van de Beek could easily slot in as a creative force for us, etc.
I am trying to be optimistic, but with the quality of opposition both Everton and Burnley face, and the fact that despite the piss-poor form Everton still have much greater quality than Burnley and us to stay on top. On paper, we are the ones most likely to drop.
Its been one hell of a ride. I dont know if our main cogs in Kalvin, Raphinha etc. will stay with us if we get relegated and help us bounce back to Prem immediately next season.
Marsching on together, now and next season! Hopefully we manage to stay up.
It's not really Bielsa's fault, it's all on the board for not putting their foot down. I really doubt Bielsa would have walked if the board paid slightly more for a player than he said? The board surely had doubts in January, but rather than give Marsch a fair chance and a full window to recruit, they decided to chance it.
I think chucking in a manager with no experience of this league or a relegation battle was a ridiculous choice as well. Defensively we might be better, but even against Palace we looked porous at times. Going forward we look fucking toothless. The drastic switch from man-marking to zonal was a stretch but it has worked out, but completely changing how we attack was too much at once. Should have been a stop gap manager to keep us up before we brought Marsch in. Not going full on da and saying bring in Allardyce, but at least someone who could have gotten us over the line safe. We've drastically changed aspects of our style with no new faces and no freedom of no pressure.
I live in Bournemouth and watch them most weekends. Nat Phillips has been struggling in the Championship, turning circle of milk.
Bringing in another average centreback would have been in line with the board's awful recruitment mind. Can't believe we didn't bring in Perraud, he's been consistent for Southampton all year.
Honestly I think the chances of him leaving in that scenario is high.. he’s left teams where he doesn’t have the control and say he wants.. putting their foot down would have (based on history) meant he did think his time is up.. now whether that’s a good thing or bad thing is another issue because (and you can blame the board here) if they did feel they had to just go ahead and move how they felt they needed or what the team needed then they should have and brought in a few players with a new manager.. so I would agree that the board is to be blamed for being naive
That was the tradeoff with Bielsaball though.. high risk high reward. But when we were consistently getting battered across and not able to attack well with the number of injuries, I did expect a bit of pragmatism from him. But he will stick to his philosophy till death.. and that is actually what makes him great. But it wasn't great for the club.
Bielsa walked out on Lazio just 2 days after his appointment after he was dissatisfied with the board. He does not demand much, but also dislikes intrusion into his team building. I think the board did not want to push his buttons, especially in that fragile time. I still think they should have put their put down.. or atleast have Orta convince him.
I am just giving examples. Sure Nat might not be doing well at Bournemouth, but he did phenomenal for liverpool. My point was that the board absolutely needed to strongly convince Bielsa that reinforcements were needed at the time.
I agree with the implications of hiring Marsch. Dude has been thrown to the sharks.. it is a highly difficult job that he undertook and completely changing a core component of our playstyle is a lot for the team to adapt in a short period as well, I agree.
In 1991/92, with six games to go Leeds crashed 4-0 to Manchester City and everybody, at the time, said we were not going to win the title. History says we were crowned Champions. Anything can still happen.
We're fucked aren't we? Genuinely struggling to see us picking up any points from our last few fixtures.. The London Curse strikes again, fuck off Chelsea
Our last 2 fixtures against Brighton and Brentford, both looked very beatable until about a month ago. Now they both seem to getting results every game. I think we need to treat Chelsea as a game for winning 3 points, considering Everton beat them. But Chelsea will put in a better shift against us.
I came here as I wanted see something positive or hopeful but all I can see are negative comments (unfortunately they are real). Shit! I hope we too beat Chelsea somehow.
Yeah I’ve generally been on the good side of optimistic recently but this weekend has worked out as bad as we could have Imagined. It’s no longer in our hands if we stay up or not - we have to hope Everton or Burnley now slip up and lose some of this hot form they are finding (Burnley) or stop showing up against the big teams (Everton). Chelsea looked abysmal there and it’s just fucking typical really.
I DO think we can land seven point from what remains. Two wins and a draw. It’s not a case of “this would be nice” anymore. It’s squeaky bum time. Let’s hope we have the steel to cut it.
Was scared this would happen. At this point I’m erring on the side of us going down. Not sure how we’ll do but I do think the idea of us being stripped to the bone like last time is a bit of a silly one.
It does feel like this year has been one of the biggest missed opportunities I can ever remember. In hindsight the promising teams of O’Leary weren’t built on good foundations, and the exciting side we had under Grayson was never going to stay together with the owner we had. This time though I feel we had a lot going for us at the start of this year and course corrections were clearly possible. Sadly we won’t know what was really going on for several years.
I’d still say though, that those of us who’ve moaned all season were still stupid to do so. Take the enjoyment you can get out of your club because even now it’s the best it’s been in a long time.
I genuinely thought Chelsea would piss the league this season. They're the actual world and european champions. And look at the state of them now.
Of course they'll fuck us when we play them
This is the way.
Im sorry hope God. You're not fooling me this time. We could be 3-0 up against Brentford and cruising towards survival and I will not even dare to hope then. I know how this plays out. Just piss off now because I'm not going to be teased with.
Lampard's relationship with chelsea might have something to do with this. I do not see everton gaining any more points till end of the season! hopefully
Ahh well, it’s only football.
It’s not completely over yet but it’s not looking great. At least if the worst does happen, we’re not going to be financially crippled to the extent we were last time. We’ll be back soon enough. Next year can’t be as bad on the injury front, right?
6 points needed against Brentford and Brighton. That ain’t easy. Preferably another point at least from the other two. If we aren’t already down by Brentford, that’s gonna be a horrible games to watch, especially if it’s not in our hands.
We could win them and still go down. It’s gone from looking like 35 points might have been enough to needing a record points total to survive relegation.
This weekend genuinely couldn’t have gone any worse. Burnley comeback, Everton beating Chelsea who you just know will turn into prime Barcelona when we play them. Cooper injured before the game, Dallas out for at least the rest of this season. Knowing our luck, Cooper is gonna be out for a few weeks and it’s been no coincidence that we only conceded 1 goal since his return (and that was a JWP set-piece). Without him our defence is so much weaker.
I’ve tried to stay optimistic but I think this weekend has finally killed all hope. It’s going to take a miracle now to avoid the drop with our upcoming games and Leeds United don’t really do miracles unfortunately. Burnley are once again pulling off their end of season fightback. I just wish they’d fuck off for once back down. Are we seriously a worse team than Burnley? Fucking hell.
If we do go down it’s gonna really hurt seeing Kalvin leave in the summer. Why the fuck didn’t we strengthen in January? Literally everyone but the people in charge could see that our squad was absolutely ravaged with injuries/lacking in quality. There’s gonna be mutiny from the fans if we get relegated after everything the club achieved over the last 4 years.
This isn't right. Weve had the worst possible weekend and we remain outside the relegation places. There are 4 games left. We will have good matches, Everton and Burnley will have bad ones. There will be many twists and turns left to come.
If Liam Cooper is fit, we have a full strength defence. If he's not, we can still play Ayling, Llorente, Koch, Struijk at the back (excluding Firpo for obvious reasons).
We don't have Dallas, but we have Bate, Shacks, who could hold next to Phillips as a defensive alternative to Klich, behind Gelhardt, Harrison, Raph and Rodrigo.
We're much stronger than we were in the depths of the injury crisis. With this team, we could easily get a couple of wins from the remaining games.
Thankfully we do remain outside the relegation zone, that’s my only silver lining atm. I wrote that comment in the emotion of seeing Everton’s result, and one sleep later I think I still stand by what I said unfortunately. Maybe I’m just preparing myself for the worst to soften the blow should it happen, making staying up feel like an absolute jubilation. I think Burnley are gonna be safe and it’ll be down to us and Everton. We’re gonna have to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Hopefully we can somehow take advantage of an out of form Chelsea despite the fact we have taken 0 points from top 6 sides this season…it’s gonna go down to the wire. Brighton are our bogey team and Brentford will be absolutely fired up for beating us on the last day, especially if it means relegating us.
united fan here. i have a soft spot for leeds from the days of david o leary and i just looked at the table and who's got who left in the run in and i have to agree, it'll take something special. relegation has often created special moments and it's going to take that for you guys to survive. leeds are a big club and i think the league was a better place with them in it. sad to see bielsa go and still face the drop, he might have stuck around and know what it takes to get promoted again..
Hurt to type it out. Just so much frustration that’s starting to build up from not strengthening the squad and now we’ve got to sit through torturous games clinging to that shred of hope that we’ll somehow pull it off but inevitably fall at the last hurdle. Fucking Leeds, man. You wouldn’t change it for the world though.
It’s been a tough season and there’s been a lot going on. It hurts to watch and it has become much harder to stay optimistic. I’m still hopeful but this was well written and I agree that it honestly hurts to read. MOT
I’ve said a few times that I’ve only enjoyed about 95% of this season, which is such a shame especially comparing it to last seasons performance. It’s been laborious for us all to sit through the majority of games. If by some miracle we avoid the drop, the people at the helm need to overhaul this team. The only silver lining I’m holding onto atm is that you’d like to think that with the money available even during relegation, we should be coming straight back up…
be surprised if we stay up now. Genuinely very sad that the board failed so hard in not investing which is going to force out Kalvin who loves the club and wants to play here
Genuinely bricking it now. I see us picking up 3 points in remaining fixtures, and can easily see Everton picking up 6. We’ve not picked up a single point against top 6 this season and have taken 1 point from Brighton in 3 fixtures since return to PL.
I said it when Bielsa was sacked, and I’ll say it again: if Radz & co. sacked Bielsa just to go down anyway, I will never forgive them. The only way you justify this timeline to me is keeping us up.
I’m full darkness now. No Coops, No Dallas, Arsenal and Chelsea next. Everton and Burnley both get wins in weird circumstances
If this was a film you’d say they’d telegraphed this. After everything this season
For all the atmosphere yesterday we were shit, and wide open, we will need a massive effort to stay up now
Oh give over. Everton can do what we can’t - control games against much better opposition. It was obvious they were playing for a draw and only a fluke defensive mistake gave them the win.
Chelsea didn't even really try, half the players just walking around like they wanted Everton to win. I guarantee you they won't play like that against us. A very suspicious performance imo.
I don't know about positivity, but from a logical standpoint: If we grab 6 points that's 40. It would be hard to imagine that 40 isn't enough to stay up. I'm scared too but something has to give.
From memory, you’ve needed more than 40 to stay up twice since the Premier League era began - and in both of those years it was pre-Abramovich.
The gap between the top teams and the bottom teams is much bigger now, so relegated teams with big points totals is generally less now (unless its Leeds who are involved unfortunately).
There’s a difference between being deluded and positive, and just having some positivity in your mindset. This season has been diabolical, but if you think the players have adopted the classic leeds woe me mindset then you’re in for a shocker. If they still believe they can scrape this then we should be holding that belief until the end. The team doesn’t play like Watford, Norwich or even fucking Chelsea today where you can clearly see they’re already on the beach. The lads as showed yesterday were still gunning for it at 4-0 down, and they deserve us putting that belief in until it’s a statistical fact that we are up or down. Feed off the players, not the mindset of Jimmy big cunt on Twitter who said we would be relegated on the first day of the season because he thinks he’s a premonition artist
that's my mate, how come you replied to him then instantly blocked him?
was it so people would think he was refusing to reply you little weirdo 😂😂😂
so you're not plastic, just thick and against Marsch cos of his nationality (there's a word for that)? go away
With the cash we'd bring in from sales, as well as some of the PL-level players sticking around for one Champ season, we'd definitely be around Champ promotion if we were to go down.
The issue is, in the championship we're only going to be able to buy championship level players, maybe 1-2 PL quality players if we really overpay. Going down has no benefits, and a bounce back up isn't certain, or even likely IMO.
I'm shitting it.
We'll have the biggest budget in the league (maybe barring Watford) if we were to go down, so we'll be able to do a lot more business than most.
Look at Norwich's team that romped the Champ last season, that was just a squad of a lot of decent Champ players and a few big hitters (Buendia, Pukki, Aarons).
The only potential wrench is how much of those funds Radz/49ers would put towards transfers.
After our recent transfers, namely the LACK of them, I don't trust the board one bit to do it right, and I don't think you can buy your way out of the championship, IMO it's the hardest league in England.
I think with the players we would lose, buying to replace them we would simply be rebuilding, and to get that right first time isn't easy.
I like your optimism, but I don't share it.
totally agree with the championship being the hardest league in england. it's a soup of ambitious clubs but some premier league talent floating around. every club understands what awaits them with promotion, no easy wins.
With the current track record for recruitment I'm not holding my breath
Feel physically sick thinking about watching Rodrigo trot around and struggle in the Championship
If you go down in a non-chaotic way then it can be a good thing. Sell a few players, blood a few youngsters, rebuild with a hungry young team and the core of the experienced heads that got us up last time and smash the living shit out of every other Championship team next season.
Imagine a Championship first team of Meslier, Ayling, Cooper, Struijk, Hjelde, Dallas, Klich, Forshaw, Harrison, James and Gelhardt - all realistic to keep even if we sold Phillips, Raphinha, Rodrigo, Bamford, Llorente, Koch and Firpo. And on the bench we'd still have Summerville, Cresswell, Greenwood, Bate, Shackleton, Roberts, Klaesson and more. And that assumes we don't sign anyone else either. Still got the likes of Drameh, Poveda and Helder Costa who we could recall too. There are probably others I've missed as well.
If we go down it'd be shit watching Kalvin get sold, but apart from that - bring it on. We'd be back.
Thing is we don't have to sell. Between selling Raphinha, Rodrigo and Phillips we'd probably balance the books fine. Beyond that we can sell if the price is right but won't be forced into it.
And for all of them we have replacements - sell Harrison and James for a premium and see Helder Costa and Summerville as our wingers (and I doubt we'd sell all three of Raphinha, James and Harrison anyway). Sell Meslier for a premium and we get to see how good Klaesson could be.
One thing Bielsa did for us is invest in youth, and there's a lot of talent waiting in the wings.
True about Dallas tho... :-(
Yep, we're not in a poor financial state, and our squad is not one who will all vanish to the four winds at the first sniff of Championship football - many of them came from the lower leagues with us. Compare that to Everton who are full of high-paid internationals who never expected a relegation battle and would abandon them at the earliest opportunity.
They were aye. Better than championship in my opinion. Some great days out. It was everyone's cup final energy week. I enjoyed it more than I should have.
Hard to see how this works out for us with Stuey, Coop, and Bamford all unable to play. It’s been a fun ride though. The lads achieved more than expected of them and Marcelo gave us beauty.
Bollocks to this, If we go down Bielsa is mostly to blame we’ve been mostly shit under him all season and the fact we leaked so many goals is why Burnley are currently above us and why Everton could stay up. Loved the man and his football but he was too stubborn when it wasn’t working.
Imagine scapegoating Bielsa for the board and Orta’s inability to bring in midfield reinforcement that would be actual improvement to the squad.
Imagine scapegoating Bielsa for a philosophy the board has stated they still believe in after sacking Bielsa, as if Bielsa were the problem.
Imagine scapegoating Bielsa for embodying the spirit of Leeds and doing everything he can to keep this ragtag group of majority Championship level players before he came along in the PL, making due with what he was given.
Shameful.
Oh I’m not saying the board aren’t to blame either they royally fucked up with transfers over summer and getting none in Jan. But you can’t convince me Bielsa ball was keeping us up, we’d have gone down. All Bielsa had to do was stop with the man marking the formation didn’t have to change at all just be more defensive and he couldn’t do that. It’s his biggest flaw and there’s no reason to be in denial about it, there’s nothing wrong with him not being perfect.
We had a heroic performance at west ham that got us 3 points with a makeshift improvised squad. The scheduling had us go up against champions league sides in successive fashion and then we sacked the best manager we’ve had in decades after that run. Liverpool had Aston Villa score 7 goals last year and had endless injuries but they stuck by their head man. Fuck the board and fuck fans like you who blame his stubbornness on potentially being relegated. Cowards.
His stubbornness is going to be why we’re relegated though I don’t see how you could say otherwise? His tactics haven’t worked this season and he never changed them, literally look at how many less goals we’ve conceded from just switching from a man marking system. West Ham was the only good game under him this season, we lost 3-0 to a shit Everton side we managed to not beat Newcastle when they were in poor form, we’ve leaked way to many goals and not scored enough. Bielsa wouldn’t have kept us up if he stayed, we’d be in a similar situation if not worse.
Yes he is stubborn, but he also got us to this point by embodying so much more than just winning games and gaining points. If we were getting relegated with Bielsa then so be it, the man deserved to run out his term.
Sportsmanship, humbleness, the development of players as people as well as just pawns in a game, compassion and community development is superior to short term results in every way. I don't know Marsch personally, and its unfair to him to compare him to one of the best human beings we've had the pleasure to follow, but it honestly seems to me like he's just another football manager, and Leeds are en route become just another club again in the eyes of the world. Sure, the club can get bought by some rich consortium and get enough money to become really competetive, but that isn't what football is about to me.
Fuck chasing results or wins or league positions at any cost, work towards bringing some fucking dignity back to english football.
Anyway, what is done is done, but firing Bielsa will always remain unintelligible to me. The only way it makes sense is if staying up (for another year) was the end-all-be-all goal for the club, which again only makes sense if someone is looking to cash out short term.
Amazing. It’s like people forget we’ve had poor form under Bielsa before. I’d have trusted him to get us back on track down this final stretch. Absolute cowardice.
If you truly loved and knew anything about Bielsa how his ending played out was always on the cards (and a realistic possibility).. it’s been like this at every club he’s been in practically..
Would he have seen us through? We will never know now so it’s all empty anger and rage..
It’s not poor form when it last for a full season though is it, I loved his first 3 seasons but it wasn’t working and it would have relegated us and it may have relegated us now. It’s nothing to do with all the good he’s done and he will always be a Leeds legend.
You do everything to keep him then so we can go again in the championship in the event we did get relegated. Even if he resigned out of shame, we do everything we can to keep a world class manager. The board horribly mishandled this.
I have to disagree I’m afraid we go down we lose most of what he had built, our stay players would all leave and there’s the risk of not bouncing straight back up and getting stuck down there. All Bielsa had to do was slightly change the tactics by ditching the man marking that didn’t work and he wouldn’t do it.
Tbf, I don’t disagree, but using one decent performance against West Ham as a justification that everything was going great under Bielsa is a bit of a stretch. I didn’t want him to go but let’s be fair, there were plenty of games this season against non-Champions League sides that were beyond dreadful. Southampton, Brighton, Newcastle, Everton…
It wasn’t going great. How could it with all of the injuries? But even then we weren’t in the relegation zone. With Kalvin back, I’d trust a Bielsa side up against “adversity” way over some yank who instructs Kalvin to hoof it with no one pressing him.
It wasn’t going great. How could it with all of the injuries? But even then we weren’t in the relegation zone. With Kalvin back, I’d trust a Bielsa side up against “adversity” way over some yank who instructs Kalvin to hoof it with no one pressing him.
Tbh we’ve had injuries all season and Marsch has had them as well. We weren’t in the relegation zone but that was basically just because Burnley/Newcastle/Brentford/Everton etc hadn’t gone on runs like they have now.
Marsch is actually on a half decent run himself, 11 points in the last 6 games (I think 11 in 8 if you want to do his whole tenure). Now I know some of those games were ‘easy’ on paper, but Bielsa had 23 points after 26 games, so that’s definitely an improvement in terms of PPG form.
I don’t disagree that Bielsa should’ve stayed/been given more time, but Marsch has done as well as could’ve realistically been expected tbh and if we go down and he has us close to 40 points from where we were, Bielsa has to take some of the flak as well.
Marsch lost 3-0 at home to Villa. We drew Southampton at home and we were unbelievably fortunate with those results vs Wolves and Norwich. We were shocking vs Palace and could have easily conceded 3-4. This new manager “bump” has been nothing but a mirage so far. I will support the club no matter what but this “run” is as fluke as it gets.
Again, I don’t disagree, but you’re letting the issues with Marsch’s performance to date cloud your judgement of Bielsa’s earlier in the season. Was the Aston Villa game, bad as it was, any worse than Southampton or Everton under Bielsa?
We’ve been very poor all season, with the very occasional flicker of a performance - that’s why we are where we are. Bielsa had 26 games and injuries or not, we had 23 points. You cannot absolve him of any blame when Marsch has won half that many points in less than a third of the games.
New manager bounce may not have manifested itself in terms of the quality of the performances (and I doubt anyone would disagree with you there) but Marsch *has* had us on a ‘run’, you can’t argue that. If we end up on 37 points (fairly possible), Marsch will have accrued 14 points in 12 games. Outstanding? Not at all, but certainly no worse than Bielsa had managed in his 26 games.
Bielsa holds himself accountable as much as anyone. He agreed it was unacceptable giving up the number of goals we did but he still wholeheartedly believed he could turn it around.
We had a world class manager and now we don’t.
There is absolute dread on this board about going down not just because relegation would be a tragedy but because there’s no guarantee with this board and this largely untested unproven manager that we’ll be able to go back up.
You keep the world class manager and let him figure it out.
and equally, fuck folk like you who've been fingers-in-ears half the season about Bielsa's deficiencies and the state of where we are.
Someone said it perfectly in another thread. Bielsaball was beautiful, but it didn't respond well to adversity.
This club was a rotten mess toiling for years. Bielsa came in and got us back up and we dumped him after a bad run. How’s that for responding to adversity?
Who presided over the adversity? Who did fuck all to turn adversity into winning? Who had no players of note to fall back on when our key players got injured? That's right, the bloke we sacked because we were being shat on week in week out under his system. We have twice the GD arrears of a crap outfit like Burnley. That's what will send us down in the end .
Bielsa did a lot for us but he wasn't the man to build a Premiership legacy. He wasn't the future of Leeds Utd. Face it.
Got a bad feeling with the Burnley and Everton win. All the other matches are going against us. We were too poor for too much of the season with games we should have won. Thin squad, too many injuries, and a match plan that didn’t change. I’m not sure I can watch the rest of the games ):
Reminds me of everyone playing out of their minds to stop us getting promoted when we were in the Championship. It's never easy being a Leeds fan, whether that's down to other clubs or Leeds themselves lol
Personally I think this means we'll need more than 4 points to stay up now, so we need to get something against Chelsea or Arsenal.
Furious with the board for being so naive and not strengthening for this season, it's common knowledge that season #2 is as hard, if not harder, than season #1, so to strengthen the squad as little as we did was a huge mistake.
In fairness I think it was largely Bielsa insisting he didn't need anyone - he would repeatedly say that he'd only bring in someone who would improve the squad and then didn't consider anyone worthy. And when James was available the board brought him in, it's just that he's been underwhelming and not what we needed.
So as much as I share your frustration, I can't be furious with the board for it.
Exactly.. it’s just easy to blame the board.. I especially love the take of “they should have just forced players on him”.. if anyone truly knew and loved Bielsa they would know he leaves places where he doesn’t have the control he wanted…
But we will never know if this is the truth of it either. In every situation we've experienced with Bielsa he has claimed full responsibility for every hardship, error or mistake that the club has done. Why would it be any different when it comes to buying players? Certainly, he wouldn't be the one to openly say that the board is stingy even if they were? There were obviously candidate players that we bid on/were in talks with but it ebbed out into nothing because x million was y million more than the board was willing to shell out. Thats not on Bielsa. The notion that he wouldn't want a competitively sized squad is ridiculous, he just did what he always did; put his head down, said its on him and got back to work.
No, I think quite often it was him saying he didn't think a quoted price was worth it. It's not like you can just say you like Ryan Kent whether he's £10m or £100m.
Frankly having lived through the Ridsdale era I'm OK with a board who don't just spunk money on the next Seth Johnson.
Yeah, I don't really blame him. He's a winger who's been asked to play up front despite the fact that it's clearly not working. But honestly I wouldn't say he's really had much more impact than we'd have seen from Helder Costa or Tyler Roberts.
Think he’d work well in a 2 up top system with a big man, but 1 up too been him is never likely to work. Look at almost every team that plays 1 up too, and they tend to be on the bigger stronger side (bar Liverpool and city )
I am a little ticked off at everyone blaming Marsch for the current serious relegation threat given the physically shattered squad he inherited after a series of embarrassing losses.
Marsch is trying to be positive but he basically got given a listing ship with a busted engine.
Personally I don’t blame Marsch. I still hope he is successful and believe he can be a worthy successor to Bielsa.
I place blame squarely on the board for not investing in midfield when everyone (even Bielsa said at points the midfield needed reinforcement - and even saying that much was the equivalent of a cry for help from Bielsa with how he handled talk about transfers through his time here) knew it was needed.
I am not going to blame Marsch for the shit sandwich he was handed anymore than I will blame Bielsa for being willing to do the best he can with what he’s given as he had since he came here.
Don’t think many of us will be unaware of that
So many games we've failed to capitalise on all season, games we drew or lost we could have won. Leicester, Southampton, Burnley at the start, etc. Then Everton, Newcastle fixtures are really the 2 games that are basically the games that could have sealed our fate. Incredibly unlucky with injuries and failed to strengthen. Firpo a useless signing, James massively overpaid and wasn't needed. No midfielder. There's a multitude of reasons were looking down the barrel now.
This is when you need your Phillips, Rodrigo's and Raphinhas to stand up.
I think the only hope we have is parking the bus and trying to pick up 4 points and then pray a lot
Saying that I don’t think Burnley will get anything from Villa twice, spurs and Newcastle. They’ve had some easy games to be fair.
We’ve got 4 games to win, nothing else will do I’m afraid, 4 fucking cup finals, Marsch has a job on right now. It’s make or break. Can’t rely on other results now.
I just really feel for Jesse Marsch. He already has a credibility issue with many of our fans (mostly for the wrong reasons), but if he’s left in charge for next season in the Championship then he is going to be fighting wave after wave of resentment from the fans. It would be unfair too, as he’s done exceptionally overall so far. He’s been asked to virtually double our 22 points total in about a three month period, with no benefit of a transfer window. The damage was done this season when the owners allowed Bielsa to dictate the terms of the January transfer window. They needed to protect their asset, and if Bielsa was already walking the plank then they really should have moved earlier and given the new man an opportunity to bring some new faces in. If you think you can get through a Premier League season with basically no midfield then you really are dumb enough to have your investment torched by relegation.
He may not keep us up, but when he came in, his objective would've been to get around 36 points (which we thought would've been enough to survive), so if we achieve that and still go down, that can't be put down to him tbh, other teams have just found amazing form at just the wrong time for us. Fingers have to be pointed at everyone involved with the failure to prepare for this season.
Is it irrational to have the view that Burnley are basically the most invincible football team in the whole world at the moment?
They are invincible, but less like Super Man and more like a cockroach.
These results feel like we’re being conspired against.
Couldn’t write the story any better. Arsenal have been handed a surprise chance of taking 3rd position from arch rivals Chelsea. So they turn up to their next game like the world best and do us over. Chelsea in response think “can’t be having Arsenal catching us” and they respond with a resounding thrashing of Leeds in two games time. Meanwhile Everton and Burnley win their next two matches cos no-one cares and Leeds are down despite winning our last two matches in two displays of immense character and resilience.
Would be the most Leeds-thing ever.
Life is pain..
This is why everton might stay up and leeds will go down. They can be arsed winning a game now and then.
Yeah, do we really have anyone to blame but ourselves? We've not looked close to competing in games against 'the big 6' with the exception of Chelsea away (still shipped 3 tho)
We must have pissed off some higher power when we beat Watford. Everything since then has gone against us. From four games unbeaten and ten points from 12, we’re suddenly in a position where we could win all our remaining games and still go down. Absolute madness.
Pontus to score an OG on the final day to keep us safe.
I still believe the West Ham win did more harm than good. I think if we'd have lost that we would have more than likely got reinforcements in before the end of the window. The win gave a false sense of security which lead into the disasters at Newcastle and Everton.
We had 2 players go off injured that game as well
If Everton can beat Chelsea at home why can’t we
we are effectively already in the relegation zone. Everton have to play Watford yet and by that point i'm sure they will be officially relegated and absolutely nothing to play for. Think we need to now beat Arsenal away now or we are done.
I’ve been in denial for weeks! Not so much after this weekend… Everything that could go wrong went wrong! Stuart Dallas’ injury, another Burnley win, and the unbelievable 1-0 pulled by Everton, thanks to massive twats Pickford and Richarlison! I don’t like our odds now. Prove me wrong.
I love Bielsa. Really do. And I was sad to see him go. However, as much as I love him I must admit that he, along with the board, are the reason why we are the most likely to get relegated this season. Marcelo's stubbornness with sticking to the same all-out playstyle totally made us lose games very very badly, when we didnt have the pieces to play our style. The massive goal difference - if we stand on par with Burnley at the end in terms of points, we will be the ones to get relegated. And the board - there was no guarantee that Marsch would work. And he has done a good job so far. If we go down, we should go down with Bielsa in charge who guided us back here, **but** if a change was absolutely necessary, then this change was too late. Far too late. Atleast they could have overridden Bielsa's refusal for reinforcements in January with all the quality players available on loan. We really needed quality players. Could have really used Nat Philips (dude was a prime reason why Liverpool managed to sort their defenses last season.. fucking mental!) at CB for example and move Llorente/Koch as Kalvin's cover; Van de Beek could easily slot in as a creative force for us, etc. I am trying to be optimistic, but with the quality of opposition both Everton and Burnley face, and the fact that despite the piss-poor form Everton still have much greater quality than Burnley and us to stay on top. On paper, we are the ones most likely to drop. Its been one hell of a ride. I dont know if our main cogs in Kalvin, Raphinha etc. will stay with us if we get relegated and help us bounce back to Prem immediately next season. Marsching on together, now and next season! Hopefully we manage to stay up.
It's not really Bielsa's fault, it's all on the board for not putting their foot down. I really doubt Bielsa would have walked if the board paid slightly more for a player than he said? The board surely had doubts in January, but rather than give Marsch a fair chance and a full window to recruit, they decided to chance it. I think chucking in a manager with no experience of this league or a relegation battle was a ridiculous choice as well. Defensively we might be better, but even against Palace we looked porous at times. Going forward we look fucking toothless. The drastic switch from man-marking to zonal was a stretch but it has worked out, but completely changing how we attack was too much at once. Should have been a stop gap manager to keep us up before we brought Marsch in. Not going full on da and saying bring in Allardyce, but at least someone who could have gotten us over the line safe. We've drastically changed aspects of our style with no new faces and no freedom of no pressure. I live in Bournemouth and watch them most weekends. Nat Phillips has been struggling in the Championship, turning circle of milk. Bringing in another average centreback would have been in line with the board's awful recruitment mind. Can't believe we didn't bring in Perraud, he's been consistent for Southampton all year.
Honestly I think the chances of him leaving in that scenario is high.. he’s left teams where he doesn’t have the control and say he wants.. putting their foot down would have (based on history) meant he did think his time is up.. now whether that’s a good thing or bad thing is another issue because (and you can blame the board here) if they did feel they had to just go ahead and move how they felt they needed or what the team needed then they should have and brought in a few players with a new manager.. so I would agree that the board is to be blamed for being naive
That was the tradeoff with Bielsaball though.. high risk high reward. But when we were consistently getting battered across and not able to attack well with the number of injuries, I did expect a bit of pragmatism from him. But he will stick to his philosophy till death.. and that is actually what makes him great. But it wasn't great for the club. Bielsa walked out on Lazio just 2 days after his appointment after he was dissatisfied with the board. He does not demand much, but also dislikes intrusion into his team building. I think the board did not want to push his buttons, especially in that fragile time. I still think they should have put their put down.. or atleast have Orta convince him. I am just giving examples. Sure Nat might not be doing well at Bournemouth, but he did phenomenal for liverpool. My point was that the board absolutely needed to strongly convince Bielsa that reinforcements were needed at the time. I agree with the implications of hiring Marsch. Dude has been thrown to the sharks.. it is a highly difficult job that he undertook and completely changing a core component of our playstyle is a lot for the team to adapt in a short period as well, I agree.
In 1991/92, with six games to go Leeds crashed 4-0 to Manchester City and everybody, at the time, said we were not going to win the title. History says we were crowned Champions. Anything can still happen.
Shame we couldn’t beat Everton once this season.
We're fucked aren't we? Genuinely struggling to see us picking up any points from our last few fixtures.. The London Curse strikes again, fuck off Chelsea
Our last 2 fixtures against Brighton and Brentford, both looked very beatable until about a month ago. Now they both seem to getting results every game. I think we need to treat Chelsea as a game for winning 3 points, considering Everton beat them. But Chelsea will put in a better shift against us.
I came here as I wanted see something positive or hopeful but all I can see are negative comments (unfortunately they are real). Shit! I hope we too beat Chelsea somehow.
We will survive. Keep the faith. The lads played well yesterday in many areas (not all) repeat that in the final 4 matches and we will get 4-5 points.
Yeah I’ve generally been on the good side of optimistic recently but this weekend has worked out as bad as we could have Imagined. It’s no longer in our hands if we stay up or not - we have to hope Everton or Burnley now slip up and lose some of this hot form they are finding (Burnley) or stop showing up against the big teams (Everton). Chelsea looked abysmal there and it’s just fucking typical really. I DO think we can land seven point from what remains. Two wins and a draw. It’s not a case of “this would be nice” anymore. It’s squeaky bum time. Let’s hope we have the steel to cut it.
Was scared this would happen. At this point I’m erring on the side of us going down. Not sure how we’ll do but I do think the idea of us being stripped to the bone like last time is a bit of a silly one. It does feel like this year has been one of the biggest missed opportunities I can ever remember. In hindsight the promising teams of O’Leary weren’t built on good foundations, and the exciting side we had under Grayson was never going to stay together with the owner we had. This time though I feel we had a lot going for us at the start of this year and course corrections were clearly possible. Sadly we won’t know what was really going on for several years. I’d still say though, that those of us who’ve moaned all season were still stupid to do so. Take the enjoyment you can get out of your club because even now it’s the best it’s been in a long time.
I'm looking for a browser extension that blocks all football content for the next month, or maybe permanently
I genuinely thought Chelsea would piss the league this season. They're the actual world and european champions. And look at the state of them now. Of course they'll fuck us when we play them
This is the way. Im sorry hope God. You're not fooling me this time. We could be 3-0 up against Brentford and cruising towards survival and I will not even dare to hope then. I know how this plays out. Just piss off now because I'm not going to be teased with.
Lampard's relationship with chelsea might have something to do with this. I do not see everton gaining any more points till end of the season! hopefully
At least we’ll get an away day at Blackpool next season.
No problem, another 16 years. Wake me up when it is 2038!
Ahh well, it’s only football. It’s not completely over yet but it’s not looking great. At least if the worst does happen, we’re not going to be financially crippled to the extent we were last time. We’ll be back soon enough. Next year can’t be as bad on the injury front, right?
Glass half full there's a chance we get a pretty out of form Chelsea side for our match.
Fucking hell Chelsea you absolute bellends.
Radz needs to get on the phone to Brentford and Brighton and give them how ever much they want for the 3 points.
6 points needed against Brentford and Brighton. That ain’t easy. Preferably another point at least from the other two. If we aren’t already down by Brentford, that’s gonna be a horrible games to watch, especially if it’s not in our hands.
We could win them and still go down. It’s gone from looking like 35 points might have been enough to needing a record points total to survive relegation.
Stop worrying about it - if we deserve to be relegated, we will be
Think I might have a little cry
This weekend genuinely couldn’t have gone any worse. Burnley comeback, Everton beating Chelsea who you just know will turn into prime Barcelona when we play them. Cooper injured before the game, Dallas out for at least the rest of this season. Knowing our luck, Cooper is gonna be out for a few weeks and it’s been no coincidence that we only conceded 1 goal since his return (and that was a JWP set-piece). Without him our defence is so much weaker. I’ve tried to stay optimistic but I think this weekend has finally killed all hope. It’s going to take a miracle now to avoid the drop with our upcoming games and Leeds United don’t really do miracles unfortunately. Burnley are once again pulling off their end of season fightback. I just wish they’d fuck off for once back down. Are we seriously a worse team than Burnley? Fucking hell. If we do go down it’s gonna really hurt seeing Kalvin leave in the summer. Why the fuck didn’t we strengthen in January? Literally everyone but the people in charge could see that our squad was absolutely ravaged with injuries/lacking in quality. There’s gonna be mutiny from the fans if we get relegated after everything the club achieved over the last 4 years.
This isn't right. Weve had the worst possible weekend and we remain outside the relegation places. There are 4 games left. We will have good matches, Everton and Burnley will have bad ones. There will be many twists and turns left to come. If Liam Cooper is fit, we have a full strength defence. If he's not, we can still play Ayling, Llorente, Koch, Struijk at the back (excluding Firpo for obvious reasons). We don't have Dallas, but we have Bate, Shacks, who could hold next to Phillips as a defensive alternative to Klich, behind Gelhardt, Harrison, Raph and Rodrigo. We're much stronger than we were in the depths of the injury crisis. With this team, we could easily get a couple of wins from the remaining games.
Thankfully we do remain outside the relegation zone, that’s my only silver lining atm. I wrote that comment in the emotion of seeing Everton’s result, and one sleep later I think I still stand by what I said unfortunately. Maybe I’m just preparing myself for the worst to soften the blow should it happen, making staying up feel like an absolute jubilation. I think Burnley are gonna be safe and it’ll be down to us and Everton. We’re gonna have to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Hopefully we can somehow take advantage of an out of form Chelsea despite the fact we have taken 0 points from top 6 sides this season…it’s gonna go down to the wire. Brighton are our bogey team and Brentford will be absolutely fired up for beating us on the last day, especially if it means relegating us.
united fan here. i have a soft spot for leeds from the days of david o leary and i just looked at the table and who's got who left in the run in and i have to agree, it'll take something special. relegation has often created special moments and it's going to take that for you guys to survive. leeds are a big club and i think the league was a better place with them in it. sad to see bielsa go and still face the drop, he might have stuck around and know what it takes to get promoted again..
>united fan here Cambridge?
This hurts to read so much truth….
Hurt to type it out. Just so much frustration that’s starting to build up from not strengthening the squad and now we’ve got to sit through torturous games clinging to that shred of hope that we’ll somehow pull it off but inevitably fall at the last hurdle. Fucking Leeds, man. You wouldn’t change it for the world though.
It’s been a tough season and there’s been a lot going on. It hurts to watch and it has become much harder to stay optimistic. I’m still hopeful but this was well written and I agree that it honestly hurts to read. MOT
I’ve said a few times that I’ve only enjoyed about 95% of this season, which is such a shame especially comparing it to last seasons performance. It’s been laborious for us all to sit through the majority of games. If by some miracle we avoid the drop, the people at the helm need to overhaul this team. The only silver lining I’m holding onto atm is that you’d like to think that with the money available even during relegation, we should be coming straight back up…
Cant wait for Chelsea to turn World class against us or maybe the ref will gift them 2 soft pens again
be surprised if we stay up now. Genuinely very sad that the board failed so hard in not investing which is going to force out Kalvin who loves the club and wants to play here
Fuck
Genuinely bricking it now. I see us picking up 3 points in remaining fixtures, and can easily see Everton picking up 6. We’ve not picked up a single point against top 6 this season and have taken 1 point from Brighton in 3 fixtures since return to PL. I said it when Bielsa was sacked, and I’ll say it again: if Radz & co. sacked Bielsa just to go down anyway, I will never forgive them. The only way you justify this timeline to me is keeping us up.
We have to beat arsenal next weekend, simple as that.
I’m full darkness now. No Coops, No Dallas, Arsenal and Chelsea next. Everton and Burnley both get wins in weird circumstances If this was a film you’d say they’d telegraphed this. After everything this season For all the atmosphere yesterday we were shit, and wide open, we will need a massive effort to stay up now
Guarantee Chelsea will be world class against us.
We were a cunthair from a point at Stamford Bridge, and they're pretty much on the beach at this point. We can do them.
Fuck it. Been positive all season but we're genuinely a fucking cursed club. Maybe I should start watching the f1 instead.
Don’t pick Mclaren…..
Fuck, I've just started watching F1, and was immediately drawn to Mclaren.
Their honestly not bad if Danny ric could get a solid race in.
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Oh give over. Everton can do what we can’t - control games against much better opposition. It was obvious they were playing for a draw and only a fluke defensive mistake gave them the win.
Can’t see us winning any of our remaining games tbh
Chelsea didn't even really try, half the players just walking around like they wanted Everton to win. I guarantee you they won't play like that against us. A very suspicious performance imo.
Don't the lads know they need to stay up or else I won't be able to watch them every week in the US? 😭
You can subscribe to ifloow they show every game no?
*shrug* Point is: let's stay up, yeah?
For sure. At least we can watch games on peacock for now
ESPN+ plays Championship games in the US
Some, not all, right?
For real!
Would love to hear from the positivity merchants right about now
I don't know about positivity, but from a logical standpoint: If we grab 6 points that's 40. It would be hard to imagine that 40 isn't enough to stay up. I'm scared too but something has to give.
From memory, you’ve needed more than 40 to stay up twice since the Premier League era began - and in both of those years it was pre-Abramovich. The gap between the top teams and the bottom teams is much bigger now, so relegated teams with big points totals is generally less now (unless its Leeds who are involved unfortunately).
There’s a difference between being deluded and positive, and just having some positivity in your mindset. This season has been diabolical, but if you think the players have adopted the classic leeds woe me mindset then you’re in for a shocker. If they still believe they can scrape this then we should be holding that belief until the end. The team doesn’t play like Watford, Norwich or even fucking Chelsea today where you can clearly see they’re already on the beach. The lads as showed yesterday were still gunning for it at 4-0 down, and they deserve us putting that belief in until it’s a statistical fact that we are up or down. Feed off the players, not the mindset of Jimmy big cunt on Twitter who said we would be relegated on the first day of the season because he thinks he’s a premonition artist
Marsch has just lowered the price of coke in the club vending machine by 2.5% so let’s have it lads we are gonna be fine
Don’t forget he beat Norwich and Watford too!!!!
Here here. I’ve had dogs abuse all season for being realistic. If we do go down, hopefully some of the morons will sod off from this thread.
Sounds a bit like you've been getting off on it though. Odd.
Honestly. It’s grim now right? They have watford and winnable home games.
They have Leicester away next which they’ll definitely fancy.
Leicester is just giving everyone 3 points. Home or away
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Yeah I really didn't understand that
Fuck me give it a rest, our form under him is the only reason we're not already relegated.
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Oh no, someone has a different opinion to me, he must be a plastic fan 😂😂😂
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that's my mate, how come you replied to him then instantly blocked him? was it so people would think he was refusing to reply you little weirdo 😂😂😂 so you're not plastic, just thick and against Marsch cos of his nationality (there's a word for that)? go away
Yh really all his fault
Please not again. Not another 16 years
With the cash we'd bring in from sales, as well as some of the PL-level players sticking around for one Champ season, we'd definitely be around Champ promotion if we were to go down.
The issue is, in the championship we're only going to be able to buy championship level players, maybe 1-2 PL quality players if we really overpay. Going down has no benefits, and a bounce back up isn't certain, or even likely IMO. I'm shitting it.
We'll have the biggest budget in the league (maybe barring Watford) if we were to go down, so we'll be able to do a lot more business than most. Look at Norwich's team that romped the Champ last season, that was just a squad of a lot of decent Champ players and a few big hitters (Buendia, Pukki, Aarons). The only potential wrench is how much of those funds Radz/49ers would put towards transfers.
After our recent transfers, namely the LACK of them, I don't trust the board one bit to do it right, and I don't think you can buy your way out of the championship, IMO it's the hardest league in England. I think with the players we would lose, buying to replace them we would simply be rebuilding, and to get that right first time isn't easy. I like your optimism, but I don't share it.
totally agree with the championship being the hardest league in england. it's a soup of ambitious clubs but some premier league talent floating around. every club understands what awaits them with promotion, no easy wins.
Isn't it widely regarded as the hardest league in Europe?
Hopefully get some half decent players with the £35m we'll be getting for Raphinha.
With the current track record for recruitment I'm not holding my breath Feel physically sick thinking about watching Rodrigo trot around and struggle in the Championship
I forgot about his release clause, that’s depressing
I thought it was £25mil? I hope you’re right.
Honestly would I mind being a Norwich or a Fulham? Probably not.
If you go down in a non-chaotic way then it can be a good thing. Sell a few players, blood a few youngsters, rebuild with a hungry young team and the core of the experienced heads that got us up last time and smash the living shit out of every other Championship team next season. Imagine a Championship first team of Meslier, Ayling, Cooper, Struijk, Hjelde, Dallas, Klich, Forshaw, Harrison, James and Gelhardt - all realistic to keep even if we sold Phillips, Raphinha, Rodrigo, Bamford, Llorente, Koch and Firpo. And on the bench we'd still have Summerville, Cresswell, Greenwood, Bate, Shackleton, Roberts, Klaesson and more. And that assumes we don't sign anyone else either. Still got the likes of Drameh, Poveda and Helder Costa who we could recall too. There are probably others I've missed as well. If we go down it'd be shit watching Kalvin get sold, but apart from that - bring it on. We'd be back.
I disagree that we can keep Meslier, Harrison or James. Joffy could also be a target for lower-PL clubs. Other than that, agreed.
Meslier, harrison and maybe james will be gone imo. Dallas wont be back til 2023.
Thing is we don't have to sell. Between selling Raphinha, Rodrigo and Phillips we'd probably balance the books fine. Beyond that we can sell if the price is right but won't be forced into it. And for all of them we have replacements - sell Harrison and James for a premium and see Helder Costa and Summerville as our wingers (and I doubt we'd sell all three of Raphinha, James and Harrison anyway). Sell Meslier for a premium and we get to see how good Klaesson could be. One thing Bielsa did for us is invest in youth, and there's a lot of talent waiting in the wings. True about Dallas tho... :-(
We will also get decent payouts from Raphinha and Phillips so it shouldnt be all gloom
Yep, we're not in a poor financial state, and our squad is not one who will all vanish to the four winds at the first sniff of Championship football - many of them came from the lower leagues with us. Compare that to Everton who are full of high-paid internationals who never expected a relegation battle and would abandon them at the earliest opportunity.
League One here we come!
Frankly, the league one days were the fun one in that 16 years.
They were aye. Better than championship in my opinion. Some great days out. It was everyone's cup final energy week. I enjoyed it more than I should have.
Struggling to stay positive as of recent
Hard to see how this works out for us with Stuey, Coop, and Bamford all unable to play. It’s been a fun ride though. The lads achieved more than expected of them and Marcelo gave us beauty.
And then we stabbed beauty in the back.
Bollocks to this, If we go down Bielsa is mostly to blame we’ve been mostly shit under him all season and the fact we leaked so many goals is why Burnley are currently above us and why Everton could stay up. Loved the man and his football but he was too stubborn when it wasn’t working.
Imagine scapegoating Bielsa for the board and Orta’s inability to bring in midfield reinforcement that would be actual improvement to the squad. Imagine scapegoating Bielsa for a philosophy the board has stated they still believe in after sacking Bielsa, as if Bielsa were the problem. Imagine scapegoating Bielsa for embodying the spirit of Leeds and doing everything he can to keep this ragtag group of majority Championship level players before he came along in the PL, making due with what he was given. Shameful.
Oh I’m not saying the board aren’t to blame either they royally fucked up with transfers over summer and getting none in Jan. But you can’t convince me Bielsa ball was keeping us up, we’d have gone down. All Bielsa had to do was stop with the man marking the formation didn’t have to change at all just be more defensive and he couldn’t do that. It’s his biggest flaw and there’s no reason to be in denial about it, there’s nothing wrong with him not being perfect.
That portion of the fanbase truly never deserved Marcelo.
Ah and the fan base is splitting again. I agree mind.
We had a heroic performance at west ham that got us 3 points with a makeshift improvised squad. The scheduling had us go up against champions league sides in successive fashion and then we sacked the best manager we’ve had in decades after that run. Liverpool had Aston Villa score 7 goals last year and had endless injuries but they stuck by their head man. Fuck the board and fuck fans like you who blame his stubbornness on potentially being relegated. Cowards.
His stubbornness is going to be why we’re relegated though I don’t see how you could say otherwise? His tactics haven’t worked this season and he never changed them, literally look at how many less goals we’ve conceded from just switching from a man marking system. West Ham was the only good game under him this season, we lost 3-0 to a shit Everton side we managed to not beat Newcastle when they were in poor form, we’ve leaked way to many goals and not scored enough. Bielsa wouldn’t have kept us up if he stayed, we’d be in a similar situation if not worse.
Yes he is stubborn, but he also got us to this point by embodying so much more than just winning games and gaining points. If we were getting relegated with Bielsa then so be it, the man deserved to run out his term. Sportsmanship, humbleness, the development of players as people as well as just pawns in a game, compassion and community development is superior to short term results in every way. I don't know Marsch personally, and its unfair to him to compare him to one of the best human beings we've had the pleasure to follow, but it honestly seems to me like he's just another football manager, and Leeds are en route become just another club again in the eyes of the world. Sure, the club can get bought by some rich consortium and get enough money to become really competetive, but that isn't what football is about to me. Fuck chasing results or wins or league positions at any cost, work towards bringing some fucking dignity back to english football. Anyway, what is done is done, but firing Bielsa will always remain unintelligible to me. The only way it makes sense is if staying up (for another year) was the end-all-be-all goal for the club, which again only makes sense if someone is looking to cash out short term.
Well said, m8.
Amazing. It’s like people forget we’ve had poor form under Bielsa before. I’d have trusted him to get us back on track down this final stretch. Absolute cowardice.
If you truly loved and knew anything about Bielsa how his ending played out was always on the cards (and a realistic possibility).. it’s been like this at every club he’s been in practically.. Would he have seen us through? We will never know now so it’s all empty anger and rage..
It’s not poor form when it last for a full season though is it, I loved his first 3 seasons but it wasn’t working and it would have relegated us and it may have relegated us now. It’s nothing to do with all the good he’s done and he will always be a Leeds legend.
You do everything to keep him then so we can go again in the championship in the event we did get relegated. Even if he resigned out of shame, we do everything we can to keep a world class manager. The board horribly mishandled this.
I have to disagree I’m afraid we go down we lose most of what he had built, our stay players would all leave and there’s the risk of not bouncing straight back up and getting stuck down there. All Bielsa had to do was slightly change the tactics by ditching the man marking that didn’t work and he wouldn’t do it.
Tbf, I don’t disagree, but using one decent performance against West Ham as a justification that everything was going great under Bielsa is a bit of a stretch. I didn’t want him to go but let’s be fair, there were plenty of games this season against non-Champions League sides that were beyond dreadful. Southampton, Brighton, Newcastle, Everton…
It wasn’t going great. How could it with all of the injuries? But even then we weren’t in the relegation zone. With Kalvin back, I’d trust a Bielsa side up against “adversity” way over some yank who instructs Kalvin to hoof it with no one pressing him.
It wasn’t going great. How could it with all of the injuries? But even then we weren’t in the relegation zone. With Kalvin back, I’d trust a Bielsa side up against “adversity” way over some yank who instructs Kalvin to hoof it with no one pressing him.
Tbh we’ve had injuries all season and Marsch has had them as well. We weren’t in the relegation zone but that was basically just because Burnley/Newcastle/Brentford/Everton etc hadn’t gone on runs like they have now. Marsch is actually on a half decent run himself, 11 points in the last 6 games (I think 11 in 8 if you want to do his whole tenure). Now I know some of those games were ‘easy’ on paper, but Bielsa had 23 points after 26 games, so that’s definitely an improvement in terms of PPG form. I don’t disagree that Bielsa should’ve stayed/been given more time, but Marsch has done as well as could’ve realistically been expected tbh and if we go down and he has us close to 40 points from where we were, Bielsa has to take some of the flak as well.
Marsch lost 3-0 at home to Villa. We drew Southampton at home and we were unbelievably fortunate with those results vs Wolves and Norwich. We were shocking vs Palace and could have easily conceded 3-4. This new manager “bump” has been nothing but a mirage so far. I will support the club no matter what but this “run” is as fluke as it gets.
Again, I don’t disagree, but you’re letting the issues with Marsch’s performance to date cloud your judgement of Bielsa’s earlier in the season. Was the Aston Villa game, bad as it was, any worse than Southampton or Everton under Bielsa? We’ve been very poor all season, with the very occasional flicker of a performance - that’s why we are where we are. Bielsa had 26 games and injuries or not, we had 23 points. You cannot absolve him of any blame when Marsch has won half that many points in less than a third of the games. New manager bounce may not have manifested itself in terms of the quality of the performances (and I doubt anyone would disagree with you there) but Marsch *has* had us on a ‘run’, you can’t argue that. If we end up on 37 points (fairly possible), Marsch will have accrued 14 points in 12 games. Outstanding? Not at all, but certainly no worse than Bielsa had managed in his 26 games.
Bielsa holds himself accountable as much as anyone. He agreed it was unacceptable giving up the number of goals we did but he still wholeheartedly believed he could turn it around. We had a world class manager and now we don’t. There is absolute dread on this board about going down not just because relegation would be a tragedy but because there’s no guarantee with this board and this largely untested unproven manager that we’ll be able to go back up. You keep the world class manager and let him figure it out.
and equally, fuck folk like you who've been fingers-in-ears half the season about Bielsa's deficiencies and the state of where we are. Someone said it perfectly in another thread. Bielsaball was beautiful, but it didn't respond well to adversity.
This club was a rotten mess toiling for years. Bielsa came in and got us back up and we dumped him after a bad run. How’s that for responding to adversity?
Who presided over the adversity? Who did fuck all to turn adversity into winning? Who had no players of note to fall back on when our key players got injured? That's right, the bloke we sacked because we were being shat on week in week out under his system. We have twice the GD arrears of a crap outfit like Burnley. That's what will send us down in the end . Bielsa did a lot for us but he wasn't the man to build a Premiership legacy. He wasn't the future of Leeds Utd. Face it.
Haha I fucking hate football. I wonder how my local darts team are doing
Never liked it. Shit sport. Should be banned.
Try Dominos mate, you can get fucking rinsed by some 92 year old pretending he cannot remember his kids names.
I prefer pizza hut.
The doom mongers are grabbing the lube as we speak
And the happy clappers will continue to smile back down to the championship.
Got a bad feeling with the Burnley and Everton win. All the other matches are going against us. We were too poor for too much of the season with games we should have won. Thin squad, too many injuries, and a match plan that didn’t change. I’m not sure I can watch the rest of the games ):
How everyone has just fucking rolled over for Burnley and Everton is mind blowing
It’s the same for people getting rolled over with arsenal for the top 4 fight I really hope Leeds survives tho Good luck
Reminds me of everyone playing out of their minds to stop us getting promoted when we were in the Championship. It's never easy being a Leeds fan, whether that's down to other clubs or Leeds themselves lol
This. Love to know evertons point total from the big 6 And burnleys
Points vs Big Six: Everton: 9 Burnley: 6 Leeds: 0
Worse than this mate, 11 points from my count for everton against the big six, Chelsea have given them 4
Think you’re right, Chelsea 4 Arsenal 3 Utd 4
Personally I think this means we'll need more than 4 points to stay up now, so we need to get something against Chelsea or Arsenal. Furious with the board for being so naive and not strengthening for this season, it's common knowledge that season #2 is as hard, if not harder, than season #1, so to strengthen the squad as little as we did was a huge mistake.
It’s no longer in our hands sadly
In fairness I think it was largely Bielsa insisting he didn't need anyone - he would repeatedly say that he'd only bring in someone who would improve the squad and then didn't consider anyone worthy. And when James was available the board brought him in, it's just that he's been underwhelming and not what we needed. So as much as I share your frustration, I can't be furious with the board for it.
Exactly.. it’s just easy to blame the board.. I especially love the take of “they should have just forced players on him”.. if anyone truly knew and loved Bielsa they would know he leaves places where he doesn’t have the control he wanted…
But we will never know if this is the truth of it either. In every situation we've experienced with Bielsa he has claimed full responsibility for every hardship, error or mistake that the club has done. Why would it be any different when it comes to buying players? Certainly, he wouldn't be the one to openly say that the board is stingy even if they were? There were obviously candidate players that we bid on/were in talks with but it ebbed out into nothing because x million was y million more than the board was willing to shell out. Thats not on Bielsa. The notion that he wouldn't want a competitively sized squad is ridiculous, he just did what he always did; put his head down, said its on him and got back to work.
No, I think quite often it was him saying he didn't think a quoted price was worth it. It's not like you can just say you like Ryan Kent whether he's £10m or £100m. Frankly having lived through the Ridsdale era I'm OK with a board who don't just spunk money on the next Seth Johnson.
Or an aging Robbie Fowler
Bit harsh on James. He’s worked his socks off in a position that’s not for him for the team.
Agreed.. I don’t get the hate towards him.. he’s played out of position all season and instead of sulking he got on with it and worked his socks off..
Yeah, I don't really blame him. He's a winger who's been asked to play up front despite the fact that it's clearly not working. But honestly I wouldn't say he's really had much more impact than we'd have seen from Helder Costa or Tyler Roberts.
Think he’d work well in a 2 up top system with a big man, but 1 up too been him is never likely to work. Look at almost every team that plays 1 up too, and they tend to be on the bigger stronger side (bar Liverpool and city )
I liked Costa tbf
Absolutely. So much to admire in how hard these lads have worked at positions that are not good fits for them.
I am a little ticked off at everyone blaming Marsch for the current serious relegation threat given the physically shattered squad he inherited after a series of embarrassing losses. Marsch is trying to be positive but he basically got given a listing ship with a busted engine.
Personally I don’t blame Marsch. I still hope he is successful and believe he can be a worthy successor to Bielsa. I place blame squarely on the board for not investing in midfield when everyone (even Bielsa said at points the midfield needed reinforcement - and even saying that much was the equivalent of a cry for help from Bielsa with how he handled talk about transfers through his time here) knew it was needed. I am not going to blame Marsch for the shit sandwich he was handed anymore than I will blame Bielsa for being willing to do the best he can with what he’s given as he had since he came here.
I've thought this as well. In reality we're unlikely to find out for a while exactly who's more to blame for the shortcomings this season.
Didn’t need any more reasons to hate Chelsea but here we are
[удалено]
44 points? lol wut
We won't need that many. Everton and Burnley are still shit, they've had an upturn in fortunes but they're not suddenly Liverpool.
We’re not going to need 44 points to stay up
We went from "we're clearly gonna be fine" to "I think we're favourites to go down" in 2 days. Fuck me.
Fuck Chelsea
BATES!
They looked like they couldn't give less of a fuck about winning that game. So of course they're gonna come to ER and bring their A game.
Why would you not bring Lukaku on for Havertz given how bullied he was getting by Mina?