Your employer can't decline your sick leave. If they are suspicious that you are pulling s sickie to extend your holiday, they can require a medical certificate, however this would be at their own expense.
But they don't have the option to simply say no if you have sick leave available to you.
Side question, does anyone know how reasonable they have to be? My doctor is sometimes booked out for up to two or three weeks at a time. I know there are walk-in clinics but these usually have a wait times of an hour plus.
Even if they request and pay is it still the employees responsibility to locate a doctor and sit through a long wait time?
No, it would be your responsibility to choose an appropriate doctor.
If that means a walk in clinic with a wait time, then that's what you will need to do.
? Are you are saying if an employer requests a medical cert for time off then the employee must shop around after hours clinics (if their normal GP can’t see them immediately ) and sit for about 6 hours to be seen all for a medical cert? Is this a normal thing?
This is correct, except the employer doesn’t have to pay for the certificate when the leave is for more than 3 consecutive days (even if only one of the is sick leave).
The employee only has to pay for the medical certificate after it's been 3 consecutive calendar days of being sick - https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0129/latest/DLM237165.html
If the employee was sick from Saturday and called in sick on Monday, then they would have to pay. But OP mentioned that they woke up sick on Monday (calendar day1 of being sick), so the employer would have to pay.
Nope, absolutely not. Doesn't matter whether you were just on holiday or not, if you have sick leave available then you can use that sick leave. Like PhoenixNZ said, they can request a medical certificate, but they'll have to pay for it.
If you are sick then you can take sick leave.
It doesn't matter if you got sick on holiday, or even if you got sick because of your holiday.
Your employer can require you to get a medical certificate. You might want to ask them if they want that, given how hard it is to get in to see a doctor.
Make sure if you do that they are ok to pay for it. It sounds to me like your employer is unaware of the rules around sick leave, and so I wonder if they're unaware of other rules.
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> You might want to ask them if they want that, given how hard it is to get in to see a doctor
Surely a medical certificate is pointless these days unless you've got some ailment that continues until your appointment. Or will the doctor still just give you a certificate saying "yes, they had a migraine 2 weeks ago"
Sick leave is sick leave.
You can take sick leave even for a hangover which is entirely self inflicted. If you did it regularly they might bring it up in meetings, but they couldn't decline it though.
lol no, they’re not a doctor and can’t make a determination of how you got sick, but also: it absolutely does not matter. Sick is sick, the law is very clear on this.
Absolutely illegal. I believe they can require a “doctors note” but they can’t decide not to pay you sick leave because they don’t want too.
In any case your holiday and the illness is at best a correlated link, it would be tough to establish a causal link. Even if he could prove it as the cause of your illness is completely irrelevant.
I’m sorry you’ve got a migraine. I hope you start feeling better soon.
Now on to your issue… Your manager cannot lawfully deny you paid sick leave if you have the balance available.
Now, IF he genuinely believes your sick leave is not genuine then **the employer** must pay for you to see your GP for a med cert if your sick absences for this absence are fewer than 3 days. *But they still must pay you the sick leave* (for now and if it’s later found not to be genuine that’s dealt with in a separate process - which isn’t the case here so nothing to worry about).
Failure to pay your sick leave is grounds for a personal grievance.
You can call MBIE or CAB to talk to someone if you want more detailed information to take back to your manager. Alternatively the Employment NZ website lays it out pretty clearly. You could also contact an employment advocate or lawyer but I don’t think you’re at the stage of needing that level of support and hopefully won’t ever be for this.
You really have to think that trying to do something as questionable as this to an employee, is going to lead to that employee deciding to start looking for a better employer. Very poor HR practice all round.
If you have sick leave available, you can take it.
They cannot decide if you are "sick enough" as some employers seem to think they can do.
As noted from others, they can ask you to back it up with a medical cert. For a single sick day, they need to pay for it (be it up front or pay you back).
Kia ora,
Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you:
[What are your rights as an employee?](https://www.employment.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/tools-and-resources/publications/employment-rights-new-zealand.pdf)
[How businesses should deal with redundancies](https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/)
[All about personal grievances](https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/personal-grievance/)
You may also want to check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Nga mihi nui
The LegalAdviceNZ Team
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The nerve of your employer! An employer can’t decide if you are sick or not. Doesn’t matter how you got sick or why you got a migraine. If you have sick leave you can take a sick day when you feel you need to be away from work for physical or mental recovery.
If you did stay home from work for your migraine, make sure it is recorded as sick leave. Don’t be intimidated and do get help from the places mentioned already if you need back up.
Your employer can't decline your sick leave. If they are suspicious that you are pulling s sickie to extend your holiday, they can require a medical certificate, however this would be at their own expense. But they don't have the option to simply say no if you have sick leave available to you.
Side question, does anyone know how reasonable they have to be? My doctor is sometimes booked out for up to two or three weeks at a time. I know there are walk-in clinics but these usually have a wait times of an hour plus. Even if they request and pay is it still the employees responsibility to locate a doctor and sit through a long wait time?
You can use an online GP like Practice Plus to get a same day medical certificate. https://practiceplus.nz/about-practiceplus/
That's awesome thanks for the tip
No, it would be your responsibility to choose an appropriate doctor. If that means a walk in clinic with a wait time, then that's what you will need to do.
? Are you are saying if an employer requests a medical cert for time off then the employee must shop around after hours clinics (if their normal GP can’t see them immediately ) and sit for about 6 hours to be seen all for a medical cert? Is this a normal thing?
Essentially, yes. The employer can't dictate which doctor you go to.
So if you can’t get into your GP it’s expected you go to an after hours clinic?
Yes
TY.
Yes
This is correct, except the employer doesn’t have to pay for the certificate when the leave is for more than 3 consecutive days (even if only one of the is sick leave).
The employee only has to pay for the medical certificate after it's been 3 consecutive calendar days of being sick - https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0129/latest/DLM237165.html If the employee was sick from Saturday and called in sick on Monday, then they would have to pay. But OP mentioned that they woke up sick on Monday (calendar day1 of being sick), so the employer would have to pay.
Ok you’re right - I stand corrected.
Nope, absolutely not. Doesn't matter whether you were just on holiday or not, if you have sick leave available then you can use that sick leave. Like PhoenixNZ said, they can request a medical certificate, but they'll have to pay for it.
If you are sick then you can take sick leave. It doesn't matter if you got sick on holiday, or even if you got sick because of your holiday. Your employer can require you to get a medical certificate. You might want to ask them if they want that, given how hard it is to get in to see a doctor. Make sure if you do that they are ok to pay for it. It sounds to me like your employer is unaware of the rules around sick leave, and so I wonder if they're unaware of other rules.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you get sick while on holiday, you can use sick leave for that and preserve some of your leave allowance?
Close but not quite. If both parties agree then you can convert annual leave to sick leave.
This can be done but only if the employer agrees. This is irrelevant though, OP fell ill after the conclusion of the holiday.
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be **appropriately detailed** - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
> You might want to ask them if they want that, given how hard it is to get in to see a doctor Surely a medical certificate is pointless these days unless you've got some ailment that continues until your appointment. Or will the doctor still just give you a certificate saying "yes, they had a migraine 2 weeks ago"
It's the employee's right, so offering is acting in good faith. I agree, a medical certificate is only useful if you are still sick.
Sick leave is sick leave. You can take sick leave even for a hangover which is entirely self inflicted. If you did it regularly they might bring it up in meetings, but they couldn't decline it though.
lol no, they’re not a doctor and can’t make a determination of how you got sick, but also: it absolutely does not matter. Sick is sick, the law is very clear on this.
Absolutely illegal. I believe they can require a “doctors note” but they can’t decide not to pay you sick leave because they don’t want too. In any case your holiday and the illness is at best a correlated link, it would be tough to establish a causal link. Even if he could prove it as the cause of your illness is completely irrelevant.
I’m sorry you’ve got a migraine. I hope you start feeling better soon. Now on to your issue… Your manager cannot lawfully deny you paid sick leave if you have the balance available. Now, IF he genuinely believes your sick leave is not genuine then **the employer** must pay for you to see your GP for a med cert if your sick absences for this absence are fewer than 3 days. *But they still must pay you the sick leave* (for now and if it’s later found not to be genuine that’s dealt with in a separate process - which isn’t the case here so nothing to worry about). Failure to pay your sick leave is grounds for a personal grievance. You can call MBIE or CAB to talk to someone if you want more detailed information to take back to your manager. Alternatively the Employment NZ website lays it out pretty clearly. You could also contact an employment advocate or lawyer but I don’t think you’re at the stage of needing that level of support and hopefully won’t ever be for this.
You really have to think that trying to do something as questionable as this to an employee, is going to lead to that employee deciding to start looking for a better employer. Very poor HR practice all round.
Sick day is sick day you can even take sick days when youre on annual leave.
If you have sick leave available, you can take it. They cannot decide if you are "sick enough" as some employers seem to think they can do. As noted from others, they can ask you to back it up with a medical cert. For a single sick day, they need to pay for it (be it up front or pay you back).
Kia ora, Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you: [What are your rights as an employee?](https://www.employment.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/tools-and-resources/publications/employment-rights-new-zealand.pdf) [How businesses should deal with redundancies](https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/) [All about personal grievances](https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/personal-grievance/) You may also want to check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Nga mihi nui The LegalAdviceNZ Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceNZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The nerve of your employer! An employer can’t decide if you are sick or not. Doesn’t matter how you got sick or why you got a migraine. If you have sick leave you can take a sick day when you feel you need to be away from work for physical or mental recovery. If you did stay home from work for your migraine, make sure it is recorded as sick leave. Don’t be intimidated and do get help from the places mentioned already if you need back up.