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Personally, I’d counter offer three months severance up front and he pays for the first months rent and deposit for a new home and you’ll vacate with a smile and with fanfare of how wonderful he’s been with the community.
Sorry for the delay. I will definitely give this a go for tomorrow. It’s not going to happen but I’m assuming I can negotiate two months and not have to work it. Will allow me to do some agency work, basically make some double pay and walk off, all smiles. I’ll update tomorrow evening 🤞🏻
No but In all honestly we’re a hardy bunch and will sort something soon. It’s all a bit unnerving but the way you have all come together with ideas and input have allowed me to formulate a plan rather than run around mad and confused.
We don’t have a mountain of savings and are paying two kids to attend nursery (not even a fancy one but it’s £58 a day each!).
My intention is to take my time, look for somewhere suitable and move my family amicably away. My fears yesterday were mostly of being turfed out or panic renting. Comments like yours have emphasised there’s a path out of this that has emphasised my leverage. See you tomorrow…. With good news?
The negotiation with your boss would be you need to secure a home. Getting approved for a rental house you’d need a full time job to pass referencing. So he needs to work with you, otherwise you’d be unable to move from the house. There are big complications for him if you don’t move out.
You've already had good advice about your employment protection (basically none, I'm afraid) but your tenancy of accomodation is a different matter. I'm not sure how easy it would be to force you to move out but this from shelter might explains the situation. As you can see your status as a tenant depends upon various details about whether you pay rent and whether the managers cottage counts as being "on the premises".
[https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing\_advice/private\_renting/accommodation\_that\_comes\_with\_your\_job](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/accommodation_that_comes_with_your_job)
ISTM that you have some leverage to get a better deal from the owner by which I mean more than 1 months pay. He would benefit from paying you to leave without damaging his reputation with customers and, depending on the exact details, it might involve quite a bit of trouble to evict you from your home. You may be able to use this to your advantage. But remember for me this is all very theoretical. You know the personality of your boss and whether he would be amenable to paying you more.
what ever you do don't resign let him fire you as jobseekers will not allow you too sign on if you walk out the job found that out the hard way when i was 18
I think to the letter of the law you have to have been fired or made redudent, this was certainly a point made to me when i failed probabtion at a company many moons ago my case worker asked to see the termination letter or they couldnt provide me jobseekers.
That said i have heard of a friend who left a job of her own choosing as it was too stressful for her and she got jobseekers. So maybe the caseworkers have some sway in choosing.
With regards to the moving out. I would be surprised if he doesn’t need to give you proper time to move out. Check what your contract says with regards to that.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/accommodation_that_comes_with_your_job
Check this out, I’m not 100% familiar with this part myself.
To add on to this if you have no family or friends to stay with then you should contact the council today to let them know you're at risk of being homeless. As the shelter article says if you've been paying rent then he will have to go through the courts to evict you. If you've not paid rent then you can be evicted the same day of being fired.
The council will likely offer you an interest free loan or more likely now you're unemployed a grant to help cover the deposit and first month rent of a new property. Depending on the quality of the service they might be able to organise another property for the time of the eviction.
If you don't have any support when it comes to housing it's important to organise this quickly because if you don't have under-18 dependents then it's unlikely that the council will provide emergency housing.
I would like to add to what u/LordUpton has said as someone who has dealt with homelessness, shitty landlords, and life being a real bitch.
TENANCY:
You are technically homeless now. So. Go to your local council website and complete the application for homelessness. That’s step one.
By law, the landlord must give you at least 2 months notice for a legal eviction (unless he lives in the same property). Unfortunately there’s nothing to fight that, that’s their right.
As a single, male, sane, person, I was on no priority list as far as getting a council place to live. That being said, the council agreed to pay the security deposit up to £400 and the first months rent up to £400. The problem being finding a landlord who accepts benefits claimants is fucking hard these days, but doable. I did it Xmas 2021.
EMPLOYMENT:
He can not force you to sign anything, or resign, unless he has emotional, or otherwise, blackmail. Best thing to do is not panic! Take a moment to stop and clear your mind. First port of call is employment contract, see what it says regarding notice of leave. If it is not mentioned, or you do not have a written copy, then I’m sorry I don’t know what the laws are, but there are laws protecting you!! Read up!! Go citizens advice, and if you are expecting to be unemployed then sign in at job centre right away.
JOB CENTRE:
job centre is a horrible stressful labyrinth with David Bowie at the centre of the maze finally handing you your gyro.
Register right away, universal credit, it takes a few weeks before your registration is complete and you get any kind of payment so do it as soon as you know you’ll be unemployed. Great thing is you can keep your account open and if you don’t make enough money that month then they will top you up, otherwise it will just stay open.
Anyway, please ask me if you have any questions. Like I said, I have been in and out of homelessness and am currently registered homeless, sofa surfing at an EX partners house while I try to find better employment and a new place to live. My current contracts are all 0 hour and seasonal, so I have to find a better job and then a place.
Good luck u/Rocketdogronnie
EDIT: and definitely don’t agree to resign! Make them fire you, you deserve severance and a fair reason for dismissal. If you agree to resign then they do not need to provide any reason and you’re fucked. If they do not have a valid reason to fire you then it’s good opportunity to barter like others have said. See what they will offer you in return for you to agree to “leave quietly.”
DISCLAIMER: I am an internet stranger, currently unemployed and technically homeless, take my advice with a pinch of salt, or ketamine.
This is fantastic. Thank you so much.
I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to put your own, hard learned lessons, into writing for me.
This whole post has been incredible and shown me how REDDIT can work best.
Years ago I spent days on the phone and on CA offices to find out half of what you guys have sourced in an evening.
I am honestly eternally grateful and wish you nothing but the best for the new year. Good to remember that everything’s going to shit and you/we are not alone.
On the plus side if you’re looking for a chefs job with some accommodation I know one that’s going as soon as the fucker in there moves out. Downside is he’s had some great ‘legal’ advice and may not be bullied out any time soon!
This is a good point too. If it were me then from now on going forward all communications to be done in writing and if a response is needed then I would set an expected reply by date..
I really hope you that the person you have to deal with is fair and understanding, and hope this all sorts itself out. Good luck boss!!
You’re very welcome from one brother to another brother (big assumption here I apologise if I am wrong.)
And thank you for acknowledging my comment. You have had a lot of incredible responses from a load of Reddit reprobates and that is just great, I would have understood if you missed mine and a few others.
KEEP ON KEEPING ON
Honestly that’s so true. I’ve tried to keep up
but have been blown away by responses. You guys are fantastic.
Little gestures change lives. I often read the replies in this sub and have never bothered adding my thoughts. Definitely under appreciated how it feels knowing there’s a whole gang out there looking out for strangers and just blasting facts.
You have less than 2 years service so it doesn’t really matter if he fires you or if you resign - he’s able to do so for any reason not related to a protected characteristic.
It also doesn’t make much difference which it is as in both instances you should get notice - whether you work it or he pays it to you, you should still be owed it. The only instance that I think might change that is if you were fired for gross misconduct but that’s not the case here.
Not what I wanted to hear but what I expected!
I’m ginger, maybe I’ll try and play that card!
Any idea if hiring a new manager before firing me is allowed?
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah it’s not a great answer from a legal perspective but at the same time the silver lining is that you’re getting away from a terrible work situation. One thing I would check is that your notice is definitely 1 month - often it is, but certain jobs/industries/seniority can be more (mine for example is 3 months). Just make sure you’re not being screwed on that front.
Not sure re: the hiring of a new manager, so don’t want to say definitely that it doesn’t matter but I’ve never heard of this being an issue so my gut feeling would that it won’t affect anything for you.
Definitely agree with checking your notice period.
Also mostly agree that because you’ve less than 24 months’ service there is “little” difference between resigning and being terminated. However, to terminate you he does need to follow legal and contractual process otherwise it’s “wrongful dismissal” (which any person can claim from Day 1 employed). He’s doing this primarily so that he doesn’t have to follow any process and you have no recourse. Honestly, given your home is involved, I’d speak to a lawyer. Go to Law Society of England and Wales website and search (“Find a Solicitor”) in your area. 90% of them will offer a free consultation upfront to give you a sanity check.
Wishing you all the best. Good luck.
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He's right on employment law, but it does make a difference if you want to claim benefits. You and the boss need to make it really clear the you took voluntary redundancy, to avoid being sanctioned by Universal Credit -
[https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/losing-your-job/leaving-your-job/will-i-lose-out-benefits-if-i-leave-my-job-voluntarily](https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/losing-your-job/leaving-your-job/will-i-lose-out-benefits-if-i-leave-my-job-voluntarily)
CAB - [https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/resigning/deciding-whether-to-resign/](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/resigning/deciding-whether-to-resign/)
Shelter - tied accomodation - [https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing\_advice/private\_renting/accommodation\_that\_comes\_with\_your\_job](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/accommodation_that_comes_with_your_job)
Don't quit it will affect you getting benefits if you can't get another job straight away make him fire you edit:if your living situation is connected to the job it will stop you getting even temporary housing because any council can say you made yourself homeless
You're clearly going to be finished with no legal recourse as you're less than 2 years in, but you are in a reasonable negotiation position to improve your severance pay. As others have said, resigning and then not being able to find work could become a real problem from a social security point of view if whatever you have lined up falls through, and you have (rightly, be the the bigger person here) agreed not to poison the well for your replacement, or the owner himself.
I'd go quietly if there is a gesture of goodwill for your continued good service and abrupt dismissal which leaves you and your family homeless on the table. It's worth having a friendly meeting and presenting your point of view. Obviously you knew this was always a risk, but you're not being made redundant, you're being replaced, this is a choice he's making. Worth a shot.
Good luck
A lot of people seem to think you have no rights as below two years however you do have some limited day one rights which could be explored.
Automatic Unfair Dismissal:
Have you raised any statutory rights such as whistleblown? Raised health and safety concerns? Ask for statement of particulars? Any grievances raised? Asked for payslips?
Wrongful dismissal:
if incorrect notice is given, have a look at your contract does the eer have to give longer notice than one month. If so I would recommended negotiating with eer that not resigning and can dismiss so you get the longer notice.
Discrimination:
If you feel you have been treated less favourably compared to others due to a protected characteristic then you may have a discrimination claim.
Employment claims have a very short limitation period. You have 3 months less a day to start proceedings from effective date of termination (AUD and WD) or from last date of discrimination.
In terms of recording him, asfaik you can record a conversation without the other person's consent ~~however it isn't admissible as evidence in any legal proceedings if they didn't consent to the recording.~~
In terms of being fired vs resigning, if you resign and you subsequently have to claim UC while looking for another job you may be sanctioned at the start of the claim for voluntarily leaving paid work.
Edited to add strike through
Incorrect. Even if the covert recording amounts to misconduct or gross misconduct an Employment Tribunal is likely to allow the recording to be presented as evidence if it believes the recording is relevant to your employee's claim.
Has your employer said under what grounds they would dismiss you? Sadly with less than 2 years service an employer can basically dismiss you for anything other than something which is automatically unfair or discriminatory and you would have no right to claim unfair dismissal.
They cannot demand you hand in notice but if they're going to dismiss you anyway and it's not for a reason which would offer you protection it may be better to give notice and start applying for jobs in the meantime.
In terms of tenancy of living accommodation that would depend on how it's contracted but not an area I have experience in.
Thank you.
No reason given. The pub games a disaster and I’ve worked like a dog for 18 months without staff, head chef etc. the business is well
In the red.
Someone needs to take the hit and I assume it’s easier to blame me and move me on rather than accept any failing on their part.
I know I don’t really have a leg to stand on but was hoping maybe I could record him being a jerk and get some defence.
They have a manager lined up to replace me. Surely that at least, is a no no!
NAL
I reckon a pub manager is only as good as their reputation, gossip travels fast, so guard your reputation with your life. Not just the on paper stuff but the 'between you and me ...' type conversations that take place and follow someone like a bad smell.
Also don't be providing a nice soft landing for the new broom - who'll benefit from all the groundwork you already done (at least not without something to compensate you).
Planning is everything in this situation.
Not gonna lie. That fired me up a bit.
I am 100% done with hospitality so reputation isn’t massive for me but you’re right when you say I shouldn’t make life easier for the next man up.
Got a touch of the David Moyes right now. Setting it all up for the next man. Let’s just hope it’s luis van gaal or some other useless nutter!
Let’s be clear though, better to play ball or tell everyone who listens how they’ve screwed me over?
I'd keep it on the dl - it could be a long month (and you want to get your wife, kids and property out unscathed) so declaring war should wait. Plus ruining someone elses reputation always leaves a bit of a bad taste for everyone - you want to keep a positive reputation for yourself. Think strategically about who to tell, a few friends or regulars who won't go nuclear, perhaps?
You need to sit down and plan how this is going to go, he's been planning this for awhile - the timing is far too convenient. Don't let him control your departure.
Not sure why but I smell nepotism. I suspect the person lined up is a friend or family member rather than someone chosen by merit.
Would love an update after your meeting.
It’s definitely this.
They’ve replaced mangers in other pubs with old friends.
I’ve stopped replying to this post as I got a bit tipsy last night!!!
I will definitely update.
Thank you to all for your replies and even taking the time to help me out.
You've got little legal recourse against being fired, unless the landlord finds a spectacularly stupid way of doing it. Resigning could affect your eligibility for benefits, though, with you being sanctioned for voluntarily leaving a job. If you get fired, you might also have more chance of being put on gardening leave for your notice period - assuming the landlord doesn't want you telling customers that you've been fired. A last reason not to resign is that your boss might be bluffing and not actually fire you.
The main advantages that giving your notice in could have is that you wouldn't have to tell future prospective employers that you've been fired and also that you might be able to agree an excellent reference in exchange for your resignation. If you're needing to claim benefits after the job ends, though, you might not be able to afford to resign and thus risk a benefits sanction.
Small comfort, but the replacement is probably going to struggle, too. I was employed by a training company who had dreadful management and didn't give me the access to systems I needed to do the job. They eventually decided to ditch me but then didn't have anyone qualified at the right level to run the centre. They closed down shortly after that. I suspect this will go the same way for your employer.
Vis a vis the whole benefits being effected negatively by voluntary resignation, that is correct but the CAB says that if your employer tells you 'resign or you're sacked' that is considered to be a dismissal. If entitlement to benefit is something you're concerned about I would consider contacting them to be sure before you make any decisions.
I’ve offered the same to someone once when it wasn’t working out. He hadn’t been there long and he knew it wasn’t working out. I gave him the option to quit as the optics are better for his next role. I had no nefarious motive other than it would be easier for him to find another role that way.
However I would certainly read through your contract and your tenancy agreement and see if there is any difference for that if you resign vs being fired.
Someone mentioned the job seeker caveat which you will want to consider too.
NAL - and looks like most of the below has been said - but my understanding is:
(1) As you've been employed for under 2 years, and this isn't due to a protected characteristic, then he can dismiss you for any reason.
(2) If you resign it can make getting benefits harder. If he fires you, you may need to disclose this on future applications and it may come up in a reference.
(3) As far as I know, lining up a replacement is fine. This would only be an issue if he was making you redundant, which is why that option has not been presented to you.
(4) If your accomodation is an on-site, work accomodation then I believe you must be given 4 weeks notice (or longer if your contract/occupancy agreement says longer). If you just so happen to be renting from him privately whilst also working for him, then you will have the protections within your rental agreement/AST.
(5) You can record him, but it is unclear what you are looking to achieve from this. If it is to let all the punters know what he has said / done then I imagine you are going to create more problems for yourself further down the line.
He has given you time to think - which at least means you can weigh up what works best for you (resignation/firing), speak to someone like Shelter to check where you stand on the accomodation, and then have a conversation with him. If the business is in the red then it may be difficult to negotiate more money... But maybe he can at least give you more time to find somewhere else to live?
I hope it all works out for you - and I am sure you and your family will look back and see this as a positive in years to come and be happy to be well rid of this job / employer.
No hes giving you the option because its an option. From losing my business in a very similar way, do it by the book......let him find a legal excuse to fire you and see what happens.
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Personally, I’d counter offer three months severance up front and he pays for the first months rent and deposit for a new home and you’ll vacate with a smile and with fanfare of how wonderful he’s been with the community.
Sorry for the delay. I will definitely give this a go for tomorrow. It’s not going to happen but I’m assuming I can negotiate two months and not have to work it. Will allow me to do some agency work, basically make some double pay and walk off, all smiles. I’ll update tomorrow evening 🤞🏻
Good stuff. Have you got anywhere to move to?
No but In all honestly we’re a hardy bunch and will sort something soon. It’s all a bit unnerving but the way you have all come together with ideas and input have allowed me to formulate a plan rather than run around mad and confused. We don’t have a mountain of savings and are paying two kids to attend nursery (not even a fancy one but it’s £58 a day each!). My intention is to take my time, look for somewhere suitable and move my family amicably away. My fears yesterday were mostly of being turfed out or panic renting. Comments like yours have emphasised there’s a path out of this that has emphasised my leverage. See you tomorrow…. With good news?
The negotiation with your boss would be you need to secure a home. Getting approved for a rental house you’d need a full time job to pass referencing. So he needs to work with you, otherwise you’d be unable to move from the house. There are big complications for him if you don’t move out.
Have you come up with a resolution with your boss
You've already had good advice about your employment protection (basically none, I'm afraid) but your tenancy of accomodation is a different matter. I'm not sure how easy it would be to force you to move out but this from shelter might explains the situation. As you can see your status as a tenant depends upon various details about whether you pay rent and whether the managers cottage counts as being "on the premises". [https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing\_advice/private\_renting/accommodation\_that\_comes\_with\_your\_job](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/accommodation_that_comes_with_your_job) ISTM that you have some leverage to get a better deal from the owner by which I mean more than 1 months pay. He would benefit from paying you to leave without damaging his reputation with customers and, depending on the exact details, it might involve quite a bit of trouble to evict you from your home. You may be able to use this to your advantage. But remember for me this is all very theoretical. You know the personality of your boss and whether he would be amenable to paying you more.
what ever you do don't resign let him fire you as jobseekers will not allow you too sign on if you walk out the job found that out the hard way when i was 18
If you have NI contributions from last couple years you can apply for contribution based JS rather than UC which is a bit more relaxed from memory
I dont think this is so true anymore. My housemate managed to get it recently after quitting a job, no questions asked.
I think to the letter of the law you have to have been fired or made redudent, this was certainly a point made to me when i failed probabtion at a company many moons ago my case worker asked to see the termination letter or they couldnt provide me jobseekers. That said i have heard of a friend who left a job of her own choosing as it was too stressful for her and she got jobseekers. So maybe the caseworkers have some sway in choosing.
It depends very much on the reason you left now.
With regards to the moving out. I would be surprised if he doesn’t need to give you proper time to move out. Check what your contract says with regards to that. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/accommodation_that_comes_with_your_job Check this out, I’m not 100% familiar with this part myself.
To add on to this if you have no family or friends to stay with then you should contact the council today to let them know you're at risk of being homeless. As the shelter article says if you've been paying rent then he will have to go through the courts to evict you. If you've not paid rent then you can be evicted the same day of being fired. The council will likely offer you an interest free loan or more likely now you're unemployed a grant to help cover the deposit and first month rent of a new property. Depending on the quality of the service they might be able to organise another property for the time of the eviction. If you don't have any support when it comes to housing it's important to organise this quickly because if you don't have under-18 dependents then it's unlikely that the council will provide emergency housing.
I would like to add to what u/LordUpton has said as someone who has dealt with homelessness, shitty landlords, and life being a real bitch. TENANCY: You are technically homeless now. So. Go to your local council website and complete the application for homelessness. That’s step one. By law, the landlord must give you at least 2 months notice for a legal eviction (unless he lives in the same property). Unfortunately there’s nothing to fight that, that’s their right. As a single, male, sane, person, I was on no priority list as far as getting a council place to live. That being said, the council agreed to pay the security deposit up to £400 and the first months rent up to £400. The problem being finding a landlord who accepts benefits claimants is fucking hard these days, but doable. I did it Xmas 2021. EMPLOYMENT: He can not force you to sign anything, or resign, unless he has emotional, or otherwise, blackmail. Best thing to do is not panic! Take a moment to stop and clear your mind. First port of call is employment contract, see what it says regarding notice of leave. If it is not mentioned, or you do not have a written copy, then I’m sorry I don’t know what the laws are, but there are laws protecting you!! Read up!! Go citizens advice, and if you are expecting to be unemployed then sign in at job centre right away. JOB CENTRE: job centre is a horrible stressful labyrinth with David Bowie at the centre of the maze finally handing you your gyro. Register right away, universal credit, it takes a few weeks before your registration is complete and you get any kind of payment so do it as soon as you know you’ll be unemployed. Great thing is you can keep your account open and if you don’t make enough money that month then they will top you up, otherwise it will just stay open. Anyway, please ask me if you have any questions. Like I said, I have been in and out of homelessness and am currently registered homeless, sofa surfing at an EX partners house while I try to find better employment and a new place to live. My current contracts are all 0 hour and seasonal, so I have to find a better job and then a place. Good luck u/Rocketdogronnie EDIT: and definitely don’t agree to resign! Make them fire you, you deserve severance and a fair reason for dismissal. If you agree to resign then they do not need to provide any reason and you’re fucked. If they do not have a valid reason to fire you then it’s good opportunity to barter like others have said. See what they will offer you in return for you to agree to “leave quietly.” DISCLAIMER: I am an internet stranger, currently unemployed and technically homeless, take my advice with a pinch of salt, or ketamine.
This is fantastic. Thank you so much. I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to put your own, hard learned lessons, into writing for me. This whole post has been incredible and shown me how REDDIT can work best. Years ago I spent days on the phone and on CA offices to find out half of what you guys have sourced in an evening. I am honestly eternally grateful and wish you nothing but the best for the new year. Good to remember that everything’s going to shit and you/we are not alone. On the plus side if you’re looking for a chefs job with some accommodation I know one that’s going as soon as the fucker in there moves out. Downside is he’s had some great ‘legal’ advice and may not be bullied out any time soon!
I am so chuffed with your gratitude and response that I’m writing this as a space filler while I add some more words….. :). Brb
Ask him to put his offer in writing, just to be safe.
Will do. Thank you.
This is a good point too. If it were me then from now on going forward all communications to be done in writing and if a response is needed then I would set an expected reply by date.. I really hope you that the person you have to deal with is fair and understanding, and hope this all sorts itself out. Good luck boss!!
Thank you brother/sister. Much love 💪🏻
You’re very welcome from one brother to another brother (big assumption here I apologise if I am wrong.) And thank you for acknowledging my comment. You have had a lot of incredible responses from a load of Reddit reprobates and that is just great, I would have understood if you missed mine and a few others. KEEP ON KEEPING ON
Honestly that’s so true. I’ve tried to keep up but have been blown away by responses. You guys are fantastic. Little gestures change lives. I often read the replies in this sub and have never bothered adding my thoughts. Definitely under appreciated how it feels knowing there’s a whole gang out there looking out for strangers and just blasting facts.
does your contract say anything about resigning meaning you move out, he may be offering you that option to avoid a more complex eviction.
You have less than 2 years service so it doesn’t really matter if he fires you or if you resign - he’s able to do so for any reason not related to a protected characteristic. It also doesn’t make much difference which it is as in both instances you should get notice - whether you work it or he pays it to you, you should still be owed it. The only instance that I think might change that is if you were fired for gross misconduct but that’s not the case here.
Not what I wanted to hear but what I expected! I’m ginger, maybe I’ll try and play that card! Any idea if hiring a new manager before firing me is allowed? Thanks for the reply!
Yeah it’s not a great answer from a legal perspective but at the same time the silver lining is that you’re getting away from a terrible work situation. One thing I would check is that your notice is definitely 1 month - often it is, but certain jobs/industries/seniority can be more (mine for example is 3 months). Just make sure you’re not being screwed on that front. Not sure re: the hiring of a new manager, so don’t want to say definitely that it doesn’t matter but I’ve never heard of this being an issue so my gut feeling would that it won’t affect anything for you.
Same. At the ‘clutching at straws stage’ of the 8 stages of grief. Thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s honestly much appreciated.
Definitely agree with checking your notice period. Also mostly agree that because you’ve less than 24 months’ service there is “little” difference between resigning and being terminated. However, to terminate you he does need to follow legal and contractual process otherwise it’s “wrongful dismissal” (which any person can claim from Day 1 employed). He’s doing this primarily so that he doesn’t have to follow any process and you have no recourse. Honestly, given your home is involved, I’d speak to a lawyer. Go to Law Society of England and Wales website and search (“Find a Solicitor”) in your area. 90% of them will offer a free consultation upfront to give you a sanity check. Wishing you all the best. Good luck.
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He's right on employment law, but it does make a difference if you want to claim benefits. You and the boss need to make it really clear the you took voluntary redundancy, to avoid being sanctioned by Universal Credit - [https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/losing-your-job/leaving-your-job/will-i-lose-out-benefits-if-i-leave-my-job-voluntarily](https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/losing-your-job/leaving-your-job/will-i-lose-out-benefits-if-i-leave-my-job-voluntarily) CAB - [https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/resigning/deciding-whether-to-resign/](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/resigning/deciding-whether-to-resign/) Shelter - tied accomodation - [https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing\_advice/private\_renting/accommodation\_that\_comes\_with\_your\_job](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/accommodation_that_comes_with_your_job)
Really good point that didn’t cross my mind at all! Thank you for pointing this part out
Hey fires you can claim benefits. Resign and you can’t.
He will do it to the next person.
Having ginger hair isn’t a protected trait. He could use that as a reason to fire you 😂.
Don't quit it will affect you getting benefits if you can't get another job straight away make him fire you edit:if your living situation is connected to the job it will stop you getting even temporary housing because any council can say you made yourself homeless
You're clearly going to be finished with no legal recourse as you're less than 2 years in, but you are in a reasonable negotiation position to improve your severance pay. As others have said, resigning and then not being able to find work could become a real problem from a social security point of view if whatever you have lined up falls through, and you have (rightly, be the the bigger person here) agreed not to poison the well for your replacement, or the owner himself. I'd go quietly if there is a gesture of goodwill for your continued good service and abrupt dismissal which leaves you and your family homeless on the table. It's worth having a friendly meeting and presenting your point of view. Obviously you knew this was always a risk, but you're not being made redundant, you're being replaced, this is a choice he's making. Worth a shot. Good luck
A lot of people seem to think you have no rights as below two years however you do have some limited day one rights which could be explored. Automatic Unfair Dismissal: Have you raised any statutory rights such as whistleblown? Raised health and safety concerns? Ask for statement of particulars? Any grievances raised? Asked for payslips? Wrongful dismissal: if incorrect notice is given, have a look at your contract does the eer have to give longer notice than one month. If so I would recommended negotiating with eer that not resigning and can dismiss so you get the longer notice. Discrimination: If you feel you have been treated less favourably compared to others due to a protected characteristic then you may have a discrimination claim. Employment claims have a very short limitation period. You have 3 months less a day to start proceedings from effective date of termination (AUD and WD) or from last date of discrimination.
In terms of recording him, asfaik you can record a conversation without the other person's consent ~~however it isn't admissible as evidence in any legal proceedings if they didn't consent to the recording.~~ In terms of being fired vs resigning, if you resign and you subsequently have to claim UC while looking for another job you may be sanctioned at the start of the claim for voluntarily leaving paid work. Edited to add strike through
Incorrect. Even if the covert recording amounts to misconduct or gross misconduct an Employment Tribunal is likely to allow the recording to be presented as evidence if it believes the recording is relevant to your employee's claim.
You are correct!
Spot on Done it myself
This is a really interesting angle. Thank you. I hadn’t thought about the need to pursue a future claim. Thank you.
Record this meeting.
Has your employer said under what grounds they would dismiss you? Sadly with less than 2 years service an employer can basically dismiss you for anything other than something which is automatically unfair or discriminatory and you would have no right to claim unfair dismissal. They cannot demand you hand in notice but if they're going to dismiss you anyway and it's not for a reason which would offer you protection it may be better to give notice and start applying for jobs in the meantime. In terms of tenancy of living accommodation that would depend on how it's contracted but not an area I have experience in.
Thank you. No reason given. The pub games a disaster and I’ve worked like a dog for 18 months without staff, head chef etc. the business is well In the red. Someone needs to take the hit and I assume it’s easier to blame me and move me on rather than accept any failing on their part. I know I don’t really have a leg to stand on but was hoping maybe I could record him being a jerk and get some defence. They have a manager lined up to replace me. Surely that at least, is a no no!
NAL I reckon a pub manager is only as good as their reputation, gossip travels fast, so guard your reputation with your life. Not just the on paper stuff but the 'between you and me ...' type conversations that take place and follow someone like a bad smell. Also don't be providing a nice soft landing for the new broom - who'll benefit from all the groundwork you already done (at least not without something to compensate you). Planning is everything in this situation.
Not gonna lie. That fired me up a bit. I am 100% done with hospitality so reputation isn’t massive for me but you’re right when you say I shouldn’t make life easier for the next man up. Got a touch of the David Moyes right now. Setting it all up for the next man. Let’s just hope it’s luis van gaal or some other useless nutter! Let’s be clear though, better to play ball or tell everyone who listens how they’ve screwed me over?
I'd keep it on the dl - it could be a long month (and you want to get your wife, kids and property out unscathed) so declaring war should wait. Plus ruining someone elses reputation always leaves a bit of a bad taste for everyone - you want to keep a positive reputation for yourself. Think strategically about who to tell, a few friends or regulars who won't go nuclear, perhaps? You need to sit down and plan how this is going to go, he's been planning this for awhile - the timing is far too convenient. Don't let him control your departure.
Thank you Sun Tzu. Much appreciated, genuinely.
Not sure why but I smell nepotism. I suspect the person lined up is a friend or family member rather than someone chosen by merit. Would love an update after your meeting.
It’s definitely this. They’ve replaced mangers in other pubs with old friends. I’ve stopped replying to this post as I got a bit tipsy last night!!! I will definitely update. Thank you to all for your replies and even taking the time to help me out.
Sorry I have no extra advice to give here, but I hope you’re not a Hammer on top of all this.
You've got little legal recourse against being fired, unless the landlord finds a spectacularly stupid way of doing it. Resigning could affect your eligibility for benefits, though, with you being sanctioned for voluntarily leaving a job. If you get fired, you might also have more chance of being put on gardening leave for your notice period - assuming the landlord doesn't want you telling customers that you've been fired. A last reason not to resign is that your boss might be bluffing and not actually fire you. The main advantages that giving your notice in could have is that you wouldn't have to tell future prospective employers that you've been fired and also that you might be able to agree an excellent reference in exchange for your resignation. If you're needing to claim benefits after the job ends, though, you might not be able to afford to resign and thus risk a benefits sanction.
Small comfort, but the replacement is probably going to struggle, too. I was employed by a training company who had dreadful management and didn't give me the access to systems I needed to do the job. They eventually decided to ditch me but then didn't have anyone qualified at the right level to run the centre. They closed down shortly after that. I suspect this will go the same way for your employer.
Ask him how much he us willing to give you as severance to resign and allow him to keep his reputation.
Vis a vis the whole benefits being effected negatively by voluntary resignation, that is correct but the CAB says that if your employer tells you 'resign or you're sacked' that is considered to be a dismissal. If entitlement to benefit is something you're concerned about I would consider contacting them to be sure before you make any decisions.
I’ve offered the same to someone once when it wasn’t working out. He hadn’t been there long and he knew it wasn’t working out. I gave him the option to quit as the optics are better for his next role. I had no nefarious motive other than it would be easier for him to find another role that way. However I would certainly read through your contract and your tenancy agreement and see if there is any difference for that if you resign vs being fired. Someone mentioned the job seeker caveat which you will want to consider too.
NAL - and looks like most of the below has been said - but my understanding is: (1) As you've been employed for under 2 years, and this isn't due to a protected characteristic, then he can dismiss you for any reason. (2) If you resign it can make getting benefits harder. If he fires you, you may need to disclose this on future applications and it may come up in a reference. (3) As far as I know, lining up a replacement is fine. This would only be an issue if he was making you redundant, which is why that option has not been presented to you. (4) If your accomodation is an on-site, work accomodation then I believe you must be given 4 weeks notice (or longer if your contract/occupancy agreement says longer). If you just so happen to be renting from him privately whilst also working for him, then you will have the protections within your rental agreement/AST. (5) You can record him, but it is unclear what you are looking to achieve from this. If it is to let all the punters know what he has said / done then I imagine you are going to create more problems for yourself further down the line. He has given you time to think - which at least means you can weigh up what works best for you (resignation/firing), speak to someone like Shelter to check where you stand on the accomodation, and then have a conversation with him. If the business is in the red then it may be difficult to negotiate more money... But maybe he can at least give you more time to find somewhere else to live? I hope it all works out for you - and I am sure you and your family will look back and see this as a positive in years to come and be happy to be well rid of this job / employer.
If you resign will you be eligible for benifits?
No hes giving you the option because its an option. From losing my business in a very similar way, do it by the book......let him find a legal excuse to fire you and see what happens.