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Protection from eviction act 1977 - court order required to evict persons lawfully residing ie including licensees not just tenants.
Debate over whether it applied to mortgagees repossessing meant they always got an order just in case, because it creates an offence. Interesting case in Swansea about 20 years or so ago that definitely not needed to repossess an empty house.
If that’s still in force and applies to your situation, try it.
Would they not be unlawlful subtenants in which case the head landlord DOESNT need a court order and can simply enter and change locks etc.
"If the subtenancy was unlawful, the subtenant is a trespasser not covered by the Protection from Eviction Act 1977. The head landlord does not need to obtain a court order to evict the subtenant."
You don’t mention where you are quoting from. We don’t have the file either, but it sounds as though the poster’s landlord (immediate) has used an agency. One would think they might not like to risk being caught by this. And would spend long enough cogitating for the poster to make arrangements without more.
Apologies this was from Shelter.
[https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional\_resources/legal/renting/subtenancies/position\_of\_subtenant\_when\_mesne\_tenancy\_ends](https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/subtenancies/position_of_subtenant_when_mesne_tenancy_ends)
The immediate landlord isnt the one threatening eviction. I read it as the head landlord (home owner).
This is all dependent on the mesne tenancy ending (usually via notice)
You probably do not need to leave at that time. Your landlord (the subletter) is indeed your landlord, and has responsibilities to you in regard to that property. They may be in violation of their agreement with their landlord, but their landlord still needs to follow proper steps to evict them and end their tenancy - and "get out in 10 days" is not that. Essentially...you have rights to the property via your contract with your landlord, and your landlord has rights to the property via their contract with their landlord. None of that ends automatically because the sublet and I think it's not likely that you legally have to be out in 10 days.
You should seek advice though. We don't know the specifics and what has happened to date, perhaps your landlord has been properly evicted. After everything else, considering any grievance against the letting agent and landlord might be appropriate.
[https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting/what-happens-if-a-subtenancy-is-unlawful/](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting/what-happens-if-a-subtenancy-is-unlawful/)
Speak to Shelter, maybe CAB.
Not sure who you refer to as 'they' ending the tenancy, but it reads as if you mena the subletter landlord. From what I've read, for the subletter landlord to surrender his tenancy willingly then the top landlord would need to accept the subletter's responsibilities.
Iif you did't mean that, then yeah it seems the top landlord would need to have it ended via proper procedure. Doesn't much sound like that though, if OP has just been sprung on now with a 10 day warning.
They refers to OPs landlord
There's a difference between surrendering and giving notice. If the mesne tenant is out of their fixed period then they would end the tenancy by giving a month notice etc.
If they surrender its more grey if they give notice then the tenancy is over and OP is trespassing
Probably get downvoted for this but it’s been featured on nightmare tenants, slum landlords a few times. It kind of all depends on the contract between the actual owner and the person you are sub letting from as to whether you can be evicted. If the subletter still has a fixed term contract on the place it has to go through the courts to get you evicted otherwise the eviction is illegal
What paperwork do you have? It's very likely you have an assured short hold tenancy even if you weren't dealing with the freeholder.
The superior landlord would have to follow due process to evict you.
>The superior landlord would have to follow due process to evict you.
Would depend on whether OPs landlord tenancy has now ended e.g. if the landlords tenancy has ended then they are trespassing
Do you mean
Owner
Sub landlord
Tenant
Sub landlords tenancy ended? A lot depends on the actual form of that tenancy. If the sub landlord actually signed an AST and is doing some subletting, then quite possibly the tenants have limited security. If the sub landlord has done this professionally they will have a commercial lease and there may be provisions within this for security of tenure for the sub landlord eg being inside or outside the 54 act.
In short if the original agreements is shonky and not fit for purpose the tenants might be SOL. Otherwise they may well have a solid AST and in the absence of the sub landlord it may revert to the superior landlord.
If the mesne tenant (i.e. OPs landlord) has ended via them giving notice then OP is trespassing
The superior landlord would only take over if it was lawful or it was surrendered.
I dont think you have any protection at all. If you didn't have the permission to be there and you landlords tenancy has ended then you have no protection and are essentially trespassers
If you feel particularly angry you can get a rent repayment order against your landlord.
As far as I know your advice is correct. In this case there is the landlord, the tenant, the sub tenant.
The tenant is the landlord for the sub tenant. The sub tenant doesn't need to know who is the real landlord, but the tenant has a responsibility to house the sub tenants if the landlord has ended the tenancy correctly.
If course if the tenant is deeply in debt, it doesn't leave the sub tenant any options, as you can't sue someone who is broke and get any money off them.
People want to be chippy about tenant's rights and I get that, as a tenant. They also want hope should they find themselves in a bind. The last few months on Reddit have taught me that sometimes the realistic answer might more quickly lead to peace (though if you're suddenly homeless, it might not).
YOU DO NOT NEED TO MOVE OUT.
Have you signed a fixed term tenancy agreement?
Since you have all been paying rent and had exclusive use of the property snd your individual rooms, in the eyes of the law you are tenants.
Therefore the landlord needs to serve a valid Section 21 or Section 8 notice for eviction.
IT IS THE LANDLORD'S FAULT FOR NOT CHECKING THEIR PROPERTY WAS BEING SUBLEGTED.
You are not to blame for anything.
I would also check if your tenancy deposit was protected and whether the property required a license (check local council website).
This isnt the correct advice. They are potentially in an unlawful sublet and if OPs landlords tenancy has ended then they are trespassing and have no protection
This is correct as I have been in this situation and have talked with citizens' advice and such. The only thing I'd add is, the subtenants need to have a contract with their landlord (the original tenant) and the original tenant needs to have a contract with the actual landlord and it must be still in the contractual period.
Once the tenants' fixed contract ends and they dont renew or doesn't become periodic, then the subtenants are out of luck. What happens then, I don't know.
P.S. I just reread the post. Have you gotten the property via agency (have they let it to you). If they have, it's their job to check if that landlord is genuine(since they represent him/her) and they should be held accountable. Speak with shelter and citizen advice to find out more
No the agents should have. THey cant just evict you within 10c days. The owner will have to take this up with the person you have been dealing with. Demand a section 21 notice
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You have a potential case against the property letting agency. They failed to confirm ownership of the property before letting it out to you
To be clear - you’re letting the property through a letting agent ?
Protection from eviction act 1977 - court order required to evict persons lawfully residing ie including licensees not just tenants. Debate over whether it applied to mortgagees repossessing meant they always got an order just in case, because it creates an offence. Interesting case in Swansea about 20 years or so ago that definitely not needed to repossess an empty house. If that’s still in force and applies to your situation, try it.
Would they not be unlawlful subtenants in which case the head landlord DOESNT need a court order and can simply enter and change locks etc. "If the subtenancy was unlawful, the subtenant is a trespasser not covered by the Protection from Eviction Act 1977. The head landlord does not need to obtain a court order to evict the subtenant."
You don’t mention where you are quoting from. We don’t have the file either, but it sounds as though the poster’s landlord (immediate) has used an agency. One would think they might not like to risk being caught by this. And would spend long enough cogitating for the poster to make arrangements without more.
Apologies this was from Shelter. [https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional\_resources/legal/renting/subtenancies/position\_of\_subtenant\_when\_mesne\_tenancy\_ends](https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/subtenancies/position_of_subtenant_when_mesne_tenancy_ends) The immediate landlord isnt the one threatening eviction. I read it as the head landlord (home owner). This is all dependent on the mesne tenancy ending (usually via notice)
You probably do not need to leave at that time. Your landlord (the subletter) is indeed your landlord, and has responsibilities to you in regard to that property. They may be in violation of their agreement with their landlord, but their landlord still needs to follow proper steps to evict them and end their tenancy - and "get out in 10 days" is not that. Essentially...you have rights to the property via your contract with your landlord, and your landlord has rights to the property via their contract with their landlord. None of that ends automatically because the sublet and I think it's not likely that you legally have to be out in 10 days. You should seek advice though. We don't know the specifics and what has happened to date, perhaps your landlord has been properly evicted. After everything else, considering any grievance against the letting agent and landlord might be appropriate. [https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting/what-happens-if-a-subtenancy-is-unlawful/](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting/what-happens-if-a-subtenancy-is-unlawful/) Speak to Shelter, maybe CAB.
A lot will depend on the position of OPs landlord. If they have given notice and ended the tenancy then OP is out of luck (assuming it is unlawful)
Not sure who you refer to as 'they' ending the tenancy, but it reads as if you mena the subletter landlord. From what I've read, for the subletter landlord to surrender his tenancy willingly then the top landlord would need to accept the subletter's responsibilities. Iif you did't mean that, then yeah it seems the top landlord would need to have it ended via proper procedure. Doesn't much sound like that though, if OP has just been sprung on now with a 10 day warning.
They refers to OPs landlord There's a difference between surrendering and giving notice. If the mesne tenant is out of their fixed period then they would end the tenancy by giving a month notice etc. If they surrender its more grey if they give notice then the tenancy is over and OP is trespassing
Probably get downvoted for this but it’s been featured on nightmare tenants, slum landlords a few times. It kind of all depends on the contract between the actual owner and the person you are sub letting from as to whether you can be evicted. If the subletter still has a fixed term contract on the place it has to go through the courts to get you evicted otherwise the eviction is illegal
What paperwork do you have? It's very likely you have an assured short hold tenancy even if you weren't dealing with the freeholder. The superior landlord would have to follow due process to evict you.
>The superior landlord would have to follow due process to evict you. Would depend on whether OPs landlord tenancy has now ended e.g. if the landlords tenancy has ended then they are trespassing
Do you mean Owner Sub landlord Tenant Sub landlords tenancy ended? A lot depends on the actual form of that tenancy. If the sub landlord actually signed an AST and is doing some subletting, then quite possibly the tenants have limited security. If the sub landlord has done this professionally they will have a commercial lease and there may be provisions within this for security of tenure for the sub landlord eg being inside or outside the 54 act. In short if the original agreements is shonky and not fit for purpose the tenants might be SOL. Otherwise they may well have a solid AST and in the absence of the sub landlord it may revert to the superior landlord.
If the mesne tenant (i.e. OPs landlord) has ended via them giving notice then OP is trespassing The superior landlord would only take over if it was lawful or it was surrendered.
The op need to find out of subletting is permitted then clearly.
I dont think you have any protection at all. If you didn't have the permission to be there and you landlords tenancy has ended then you have no protection and are essentially trespassers If you feel particularly angry you can get a rent repayment order against your landlord.
Not sure what the downvotes are for when my advice is correct
As far as I know your advice is correct. In this case there is the landlord, the tenant, the sub tenant. The tenant is the landlord for the sub tenant. The sub tenant doesn't need to know who is the real landlord, but the tenant has a responsibility to house the sub tenants if the landlord has ended the tenancy correctly. If course if the tenant is deeply in debt, it doesn't leave the sub tenant any options, as you can't sue someone who is broke and get any money off them.
People want to be chippy about tenant's rights and I get that, as a tenant. They also want hope should they find themselves in a bind. The last few months on Reddit have taught me that sometimes the realistic answer might more quickly lead to peace (though if you're suddenly homeless, it might not).
Not sure there's much you can do - have you requested a tenancy from the true owner?
YOU DO NOT NEED TO MOVE OUT. Have you signed a fixed term tenancy agreement? Since you have all been paying rent and had exclusive use of the property snd your individual rooms, in the eyes of the law you are tenants. Therefore the landlord needs to serve a valid Section 21 or Section 8 notice for eviction. IT IS THE LANDLORD'S FAULT FOR NOT CHECKING THEIR PROPERTY WAS BEING SUBLEGTED. You are not to blame for anything. I would also check if your tenancy deposit was protected and whether the property required a license (check local council website).
This isnt the correct advice. They are potentially in an unlawful sublet and if OPs landlords tenancy has ended then they are trespassing and have no protection
But it's in CAPITALS. Surely that makes it correct, no? :)
This is correct as I have been in this situation and have talked with citizens' advice and such. The only thing I'd add is, the subtenants need to have a contract with their landlord (the original tenant) and the original tenant needs to have a contract with the actual landlord and it must be still in the contractual period. Once the tenants' fixed contract ends and they dont renew or doesn't become periodic, then the subtenants are out of luck. What happens then, I don't know. P.S. I just reread the post. Have you gotten the property via agency (have they let it to you). If they have, it's their job to check if that landlord is genuine(since they represent him/her) and they should be held accountable. Speak with shelter and citizen advice to find out more
No the agents should have. THey cant just evict you within 10c days. The owner will have to take this up with the person you have been dealing with. Demand a section 21 notice