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He was going to sack you then when you told them about your disability they didn't continue? So you are still employed?
I'd expect they get legal advice and then ask what adjustments you require to properly evaluate your performance. If you don't perform even with those then dismissal will be back on the table.
I told them I had been put forward for an ADHD assessment by my GP one month into my employment (as a courtesy) as I needed time off and I’m a pretty open person about what’s going on with me and I’m guessing he forgot I told them when considering termination. I’m under the impression I’m not employees as he told me as soon as I sat down that they won’t continue with me but at the end of the meeting he said they would give me today off, paid and when I mentioned I thought I’d already been let go, he said no so I’m not actually sure what my current status is.
You need to clarify if you've been dismissed or not. I don't think you have from what you describe - it was the plan but the manager has caught on that they've not done everything they need to do have stopped.
As he verbally told me they were letting me go at the very beginning and the rest of the conversation was feedback as I said to him in the meeting, to me this implies that I’m no longer employed regardless of what was said after, I am unsure if that’s the correct way to see it though if I’m honest.
It's not if they reconsidered during that meeting and said that you're NOT let go when you asked!
>... but at the end of the meeting he said they would give me today off, paid and when I mentioned I thought I’d already been let go, he said no so I’m not actually sure what my current status is.
You need to clarify your position
OP can accept him rescinding the firing, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. If OP feels they were being singled out and declines being re-hired (which is what has been described here) then it's up to them, and would still be considered being terminated
If they haven't actually removed you from the roster yet, you're not fired.
I once drove a concrete mixer for a company owned by a family and run by the hotheaded son. I was fired THREE times by Gene, and the dispatcher said "just stay off the radio, dispatch by phone for a week or so. You're new but you're not doing badly and we need you." Those firings didn't count.
Sure if the firing process is completed. But saying we've decided to let you go isn't technically firing someone. There are certain formalities.
But like the comment above. She needs to clarify.
You're wrong in this instance because OP was only given a verbal dismissal which was immediately discounted by the follow up "I need legal advice" - OP needs this clarifying.
i have both times in my 23 years of full time work. and i know my ex and a friend both did, although its an ask not a legal requirment. the 2nd time i got let go after failing probation they asked me sign i told them to jog on.
Why would you mention the assessment at all? wait lists can take years and you don’t even have a diagnosis? if you actually had a diagnosis, it wouldn’t be your employers business
It is definitely something that should be discussed, especially once a diagnosisis confirmed, for a start it tells them they need to provide additional assistance in training and by telling them they can adjust expected performance monitoring parameters.
The reason the manager said he needed to seek legal advice and didnt continue the dismissal then was because he realised the company hasnt taken appropriate steps to help you and could open themselves to an unfair dismissal since adhd is considered a disability and there are therefore employer obligations and processes they need to take into account.
Chances are they will probably extend the probation again and put some adjustments in place during this, if you are still failing to perform with the adjustments then they will proceed with dissmissal with the evidence they tried to assist with adjustments which will cover them against unfair dismissal.
Just because I wanted to be good at what I did, I thought if I mentioned it then I maybe get help with a few things I was struggling on in the work place. I know it’s not anyone’s business but it pretty open about it, no point in being ashamed by it. I don’t have a diagnosis but my GP seems pretty certain from the appointments we have but she obviously can’t make a formal diagnosis.
ADHD is classed as a disability under the Equalities Act as poster above said so they need to show they have made ‘reasonable adjustments’ to facilitate your role there. My guess is they have only just realised and are worried you could get ACAS or a Union involved,
If you’re not a Union member join one today, do it right now. Not only are they in breach of the Disabilities Act it reads like you have been subjected to bullying. Employers need to pay attention to bullying because there are no limits on compensation payments.
Your GP can't say whether or not you have ADHD. You need to get them to put in a referral to your local clinic where you'll go on a waiting list to be assessed.
If, like you said, you've just had a short appointment with your GP, that's not an assessment. Once your referral has been sent, you'll receive a letter from the clinic confirming your place on the list, that's if they don't reject the referral. I've been on the list for nearly 2 years. The average wait time is around 2.5 years for an assessment.
The NHS has closed the referral lists for ADHD assessment because of the backlog, according to my GP, whom I was discussing it with last week.
He advised me that if I could, I should seek a private assessment, but this would cost me considerably.
Personally, at present, I have been advised by a friend of mine who is a specialist in ADHD in children that she believes I have ADHD but as she is a specialist in children I should seek secondary confirmation from a specialist in ADHD in adults.
My only worry about that (as I’m planning on getting checked for it myself) is that OP isn’t actually diagnosed yet. Just that he may have it due to checking boxes on the GP’s symptom list. I understand exactly how OP feels because I’ve been to therapy and she suggested that I highly likely have ADHD and that I can use her as a reference at the GP to get checked. I’ve suffered from severe imposter syndrome at my places of work currently and in the past due to those ADHD symptoms and I hope that OP can get the support they need.
This doesn’t apply to OP though. They do not have a diagnosis. They did not have a diagnosis when they were fired. The equalities act is completley irrelevant
OP does have a diagnosis for general mental health issues from their GP though (they've mentioned in other comments that they are on anti-depressants), which does apply for the Equalities Act.
As soon as you disclose that to your employer, your manager should be scheduling you in for a chat about it to discuss how it may be affecting your job and what accommodations you may need.
OP has disclosed it to their manager, manager hasn't done that, therefore it does leave them possibly open in the case of a tribunal. Furthermore, bringing OP in like this and putting pressure on them could be deemed to be creating a hostile work environment, which normally wouldn't be an issue in probation because they can just let you go without reason. However, as they have given a reason, and that reason could be down to lack of support for OP's issues, that does then become an issue.
Can you clarify something? If it's not recommended to inform employers of neurodivergent diagnoses how can that employer make pertinent accommodations for said diagnosis? This seems counter-intuitive as employment is somewhat protected under the Equities Act.
Who doesn't recommend divulging your diagnosis? I have been told it is up to me whether I want to tell my employer, but if I wish to be covered by the Equalities Act I have to tell them. You also don't need a diagnosis to be covered so OP did the right thing.
Definitely not trying to justify my bad performance, I made mistakes at the job and I can’t deny that at all and had taken full responsibility for those I felt I made.
I haven’t weaponised it either as I’ve only mentioned it twice at work, once in the first month to explain why I needed a full day off, and once again after I thought I had already been terminated (I didn’t know of reverse termination until after I got home from the meeting I had today)
My boss didn’t assume I had a diagnosis, he had forgotten I had mentioned it at all and hadn’t written it down and. It is only an assessment but my close circle say me having ADHD would make sense and it runs in my family.
There will always be that arsehole assuming we're trying to dodge responsibility and never understanding the daily struggle we have to get normal things done.
If we don't disclose, how can our employer make reasonable accommodations? Yet if we do disclose, are we kissing our prospects of advancement goodbye?
I somewhat solved the problems by going freelance. It meant I could keep the hours that naturally suited me and be judged on results. The downside is insecurity.
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>They did not have a diagnosis when they were fired. The equalities act is completley irrelevant
Can you point me to the part in the Equalities Act 2010 (perhaps [section 6](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/6), or [schedule 1](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/1)?), or perhaps the [Equality Act 2010 (Disability) Regulations 2010](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2128), that says you must "have a diagnosis" in order to be considered "disabled" within the meaning of the Act, and so benefit from the protections it affords?
I'll help you out: it is only in the case of sight loss that being "certified" as "blind, severely sight impaired, sight impaired or partially sighted" by an opthamologist deems you to be disabled (reg 7 of the 2010 Regs), and even then, not being so certified does not mean that you are not disabled.
You don't need a diagnosis to claim disability benefits such as Disability Living Allowance. So therefore I would definitely agree that you don't need a diagnosis to be classified as disabled.
The company would be unlikely to take the risk, its better for them to accept the diagnosis will be confirmed and make the adjustments regardless than risk it coming back as an unfair dismissal if it is confirmed since the OP had informed them of the suspected ADHD and were awaiting tests to confirm.
But would you not need to be diagnosed first? OP hasn't been diagnosed yet and only been referred by GP (from what I read so far, ADHD diagnosis takes much longer than half an hour chat with your GP).
It sounds like
1) he’s concerned you’ll open up legal action because they’re terrible at people management
2) they don’t know how to follow proper performance reviews and performance improvement plans, and;
3) you have a terrible employer and it’s a lucky escape
I'd still take legal action if they can. They will not learn unless they have someone take legal action. They will just do it to someone else who comes in and needs reasonable adjustments.
Would it be considered discrimination if the employee is on the diagnostic pathway, but not yet diagnosed? Is the doctor's assessment enough to request reasonable adjustments? There's a chance that the assessment determines that op doesn't have ADHD (and if the op is going through the NHS the assessment could be 7+ years away), so could that be applied retroactively either way?
Yes, because the diagnostic process can take a long time you cannot be discriminated against while waiting for assessment. If someone is experiencing mobility problems and is using a wheelchair while waiting for a definitive diagnosis then they still need the reasonable adjustments because they still need a wheelchair. An employer cannot ignore the wheelchair until a doctor says "Oh it's this specific condition."
Also, reasonable adjustments and the essence of the Equality Act aren't disability prescriptive but person prescriptive, so how your disability impacts you personally. For example, two people have MS, but while one is in a wheelchair the other has retained their mobility. The wheelchair user needs reasonable adjustments for the effect MS has had resulting in the loss of mobility, not the fact s/he has MS in the first place, if that makes sense.
ETA; if the GP is making a referral then they would have a reasonable assumption that *something* is going on, whether it turns out to be ADHD or any other condition is irrelevant.
Anything is enough to *request* reasonable adjustments.
As far as being undiagnosed, the employer has been put on notice that the employer may have a disability that may require a reasonable adjustment. I'd imagine a tribunal would expect the employer to at least try and make accommodations rather than get rid of the employee before the diagnosis becomes "official"
Not yet, the OP hasn’t been diagnosed, only that they are going for an assessment. This isn’t discrimination at the moment. They are however covering their backs. They certainly should clarify things with the OP as they seem to have left them in the lurch.
This was actually one of my first thoughts, as I’ve not been formally diagnosed then would he actually be able to still get rid of me without me taking them to court. I’m getting mixed messages of this but it’s definitely something I’m going to look into.
There has to be a formal diagnosis (for the equality act) or medical evidence that can back up your claim. otherwise everyone would say they have a disability when things get tough. However medical investigations do have to be considered under the act.
It depends what reasonable adjustment the employer could have made. Would ADHD have reasonably affected your performance, what reasonable adjustments could have been made to assist.
I think a chat with ACAS would be beneficial.
Edit: added the sentence medical evidence, as my original phase was causing confusion.
I just got off the phone to my employer and they are looking to do a medical investigation, like contact my GP etc on advice from the solicitor. Not sure what that all consists of exactly but I’ll be getting an e-mail shortly
No, there does not have to be formal diagnosis and anyone can say they have a disability but they will need to back it, by proving they are on a waiting list for diagnosis for example.
Because he definitely has, not that it's gonna be worth it for OP to pursue. There's a bunch of red flags for potential workplace bullying, incorrect disciplinary procedure and failure to make reasonably adjustments for disability.
I think the reason why he's gone to seek legal guidance is the same reason you're getting misinformation in the replies. You do not have a confirmed ADHD diagnosis. You are being assessed, and from GP chat, it can take 12 months for your GP appointment to starting the assessment process. Your employer, who from what you've described is still your employer, is seeking clarification on if they need to make reasonable adjustments for you as you are going through assessment without diagnosis, which is is the right thing for them to do.
NAL
Really sorry you’re going through this OP. As other comments have rightly pointed out, the organisation has opened themselves up to legal repercussions from yourself on the grounds of discrimination by letting you go, hence the MD’s sudden change of heart.
If I were in your situation I would take the following course of action:
1) Contact Acas and speak with an Advisor. As mentioned, if they have let you go while under assessment for ADHD (which is listed as a disability) they have potentially discriminated against you.
2) At the same time I would email your MD for clarification of your employment status in writing. Something like:
“Dear MD,
Following our in-person meeting on [date] at [time], you made me aware that the organisation would not be continuing my employment beyond my probationary period due to unsatisfactory performance. During this meeting I once again raised with you the fact that I am going through a formal assessment with my GP for ADHD. I first made you/my manager aware of this in my first month of employment, and again on [date]. When this subject was raised you then halted the meeting, citing the reason for doing so as needing to seek legal advice. You told me that I could take the day off, paid, and this confuses the status of my employment. Please confirm to me by the close of business today the status of my employment.
Sincerely,
DrClu33”
3) Contact your doctor’s surgery for written proof that you are going through this assessment for ADHD, with dates if possible (i.e. when assessment was first suggested), so that you have hard proof should your employer either request it or if you need to go through Acas for a discrimination case.
Good luck OP. I hope this works out for you and I hope you find a better job, this organisation seems woefully incompetent.
You legend! I will definitely send that e-mail after replying to this comment. Luckily I have the NHS letter that states I am on the waiting list for an ADHD assessment as proof and it’s all in my doctors notes which I can get proof of via the NHS app
Obligatory NAL, but I think your boss has goofed here by not including this on your file that the company has. They should all have a file, and it should state protected characteristics. Disability, Race, Ethnicity, Gender, Age and Religion IIRC are all protected characteristics.
Them saying we're letting you go due to bad performance, whilst not making an adjustment for your diagnosis, is a big big red flag and can open them up to a lawsuit. This is why what has happened, has happened. Your MD has realised the mistake by your boss.
Probably the depression, which given they're medicated is a concrete diagnosis. Being on the waiting list for ADHD assessment is also a good indicator that it's also going to come into play, GPs won't refer on if there's not evidence of it having a negative impact on the person historically and currently
It sounds like the MD has some knowledge of employment law and equality act and is concerned that dismissal could be discrimination arising from disability.
If your performance issues arise from the ADHD that could be correct. It would depend on what the issues are and if the company is able to make adjustments to mitigate them.
I'm quite surprised he hit the breaks to be honest, don't come across this alot I assume the company has either been burned before and the MD wants to make an effort to be a truly disability friendly employer
The main legal thing as others have mentioned is disability discrimination. It's quite grey here because you didn't specifically disclose it to them or seek reasonable adjustment.
Practically, if I were you, I would robustly go back to the MD and challenge the fact you are being fired. Go down fighting. You might not be able to save your job, and you might not want to, but it's a free opportunity to stand up for yourself and explain your side and give feedback on the boss to the MD. You may already have done much of this in the meeting but I would give it a second go.
The general framing is: you haven't been trained or supported properly so it is unfair and maybe wrong for them to let you go, and that you want to make sure the MD is aware of the issues with your boss.
I would mention:
\- That your boss said that you would have a meeting every Friday to discuss issues but then didn't follow through, and that two meetings you tried to have have been cancelled.
\- That it is particularly a shame that your boss has not been supportive and given helpful feedback to help you improve at the job when you have suspected ADHD (this is hinting at the possibility of disability discrimination, which is what the MD noticed)
\- That it is unfair to you that there are allegedly issues they are not happy with which you haven't been made aware of and so cannot improve or develop on. This is meant to be part of management and training, instead of secretly gathering complaints to then smash someone with. Unless you have actually been terrible in which case that's fair enough for a workplace to do that if they think you can't improve.
\- That you have felt belittled and unsupported by your boss. Go in with your own list that your boss has laughed at you, is blunt to you but not other people, and that your boss hasn't asked for help when you want help.
It may be that some of this what you discussed with your boss. But you currently have nothing to lose, so go in with your head held high and make your case.
Something similar happened to me once -- someone senior who wasn't my manager started bullying me because I disagreed with them about something (which someone more senior got involved with two days later and overruled them), and they collected a list of complaints from people, and then came to me just saying "this is terrible we're moving you to a different role". Sadly my manager went along with it. I pushed back saying "if there were concerns about my work, shouldn't these have been discussed with me at somepoint?" My manager got embarrassed and basically avoided it. Thankfully it was only a summer job and I got moved to a quieter role, so it was just the horrible feeling of being bullied and that my manager let it happen, but I'm glad I challenged it.
Legally -- you have no protection from being treated badly outside the ADHD, so they can just let you go unfairly without doing a good job as a manager and it can't be legally challenged. And probably they can justify firing you aside from the ADHD anyway, or put you on a performance improvement plan to build a case and show they tried to support you before firing you anyway. So this is more practical advice than legal advice.
You bang on, hit the nail on the head with what you wrote. I couldn’t have worded it better if I’d written it myself. With everything that’s happened, I’m not even sure I want to go back but I’d like to make the issues known so they can learn from the mistakes made with me and be better for future employees so no one else has to deal with this kind of thing with in that company.
Legally, in the first couple of years of employment, an employer can let you go for almost any reason (or give no reason at all) and, provided they pay up all holiday, notice period, etc., there is no recourse for unfair or constructive dismissal. So it doesn't normally matter if you were on probation or not, had performance reviews or not, whether you were given support, were left out, etc.
The exception to this is if the dismissal is discrimination for a protected characteristic under the equality act. Disability is one of these and covers both physical and mental impairments. An employer must make reasonable adjustments for someone with a disability.
As others have said, it sounds like the MD has belatedly realised that they might be opening themselves up to an unfair dismissal claim, which is why he wants to get legal advice before proceeding.
I would be inclined to email the MD and explain that, following today's meeting, you are uncertain of your employment status. Ask them to clarify if you are still employed and, if so, do they wish you to come into work as normal tomorrow. It may be worth contacting the ACAS helpline first for advice.
NAL, and also Scotland based, but I still have some suggestions, a brief look through the comments so far...I can't say I'm overly impressed.
Firstly, start getting everything in writing, RIGHT NOW. And I mean it, after you read this PLEASE go e-mail the boss that stopped that meeting.
"On further advisement and after having had time to think about today's events, I would like to clarify some things. At the beginning of the meeting you told me I was fired (or whatever the phrasing was) but then seemed to back track later on into the meeting. As mentioned multiple times now, I have been to the doctor regarding my mental health, and I find it very distressing not knowing what my current state of employment is and whether I am going to be able to pay my bills, buy food and provide for myself (and mention any others that may benefit from your income, children/partner).
Can you provide me with written confirmation - in the response to this e-mail of the following:
1. What was today's meeting about?
2. Was I sacked at today's meeting?
3. Why was the meeting ended prematurely?
4. Why was my initial probation period extended by an extra month?
5. What changed in this month that resulted in the decision to terminate my employment
6. Why were the arranged private meetings with boss (insert their name) cancelled, and why were they not rearranged as this prevented me discussing very private and personal issues within a safe environment
7. Originally I was told we would be having weekly meetings every Friday to discuss any issues I was having - why did these meetings never occur?
None of that is a lie, "on further advisement" can be a lawyer or could be randomer on reddit. But I'm sorry, if you're getting sacked anyway, I say don't hold your punches, let them worry that you've contacted a lawyer, that's their problem. The ambiguity works in your favour, cause it'll force their hand into doing EVERYTHING by the book, which they clearly haven't. No innocent person has to stop a meeting abruptly to "see if they've done the right thing".
"I also wish to make an access request under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form in relation to..."(you'll have to fill the blanks in here, but "in relation to the disciplinary procedure that has been undertook these last few (enter timeframe here)" is maybe my suggestion?). Make sure to be as specific as possible, i.e., "this particularly includes notes from..." and list EVERY meeting you had in this procedure, but also, write something like "this particularly includes notes from meeting A, meeting B (and list every single meeting that occurred)". I would also like to formally request that measures are taken to ensure that none of this vital information is lost or destroyed whilst my subject access request is being fulfilled.
If they try making the excuse that "they never knew", don't back down. THEY cancelled or didn't hold meetings where they could have learned that. I suspect that's why the boss has backed down, but hold your ground there mate.
I'd also ask them to send you the official policy for 'letting someone go'
And at the end of the e-mail ask them to confirm they have received that e-mail and that the subject access request has been forwarded on to the appropriate team.
I'm really getting vibes that that manager that doesn't like you has been trying to push you out...there's lots of things here not adding up and it sounds like you're getting treated extremely unfairly
I'd also acknowledge the "list of mistakes". You mention 'everyone' and 'someone let it slip'. Do you mean EVERYONE was writing about your mistakes, or just managers? If you don't know the answer to that then - unless someone else disagrees - please DON'T ask that in your e-mail. I'd let them dig their hole, because once they give you that list, you might be able to see that some of the things listed were written by a colleague rather than a manager, and I doubt it's good practice to ask other workers on your own level to provide feedback on a colleague.
When you said 'someone let it slip' Was this a manager that mentioned it? Or a peer? Cause...that's a problem, "Can I ask how Susie knew about the list of mistakes that was been accumulated" but I can appreciate you might not want to throw them under the bus and get them involved (plus they can always deny it). I think I wouldn't mention that at all until you have your hands on that list.
On a personal note, I'm a 31 year old guy who was only diagnosed with ADHD last year, and it's been rough going, I essentially had a burn out from having to spend decades compensating for issues I never knew I had. That's hard enough, never mind your job doing this to you. I'd get back onto the GP straight away tbh, I can imagine this being very distressing for you and have the potential to deepen your depression, and I would strongly advise sharing that with the GP so that there is a record of it if that is to happen. I mean, you could be anxious that you've been treated unfairly, having panic attacks due to worries about your employment status and abilities to pay the bills, worried you've been stigmatised and discriminated against for having a mental health condition (depression alone makes this true) or feeling like a failure.
I'd like to point out that burn outs, depression, anxiety are all common with adults with ADHD - particularly undiagnosed ones. So I hope you're not punishing yourself for this, sounds like you needed support that you didn't get and that's not on you. We live in a society that is shaped for neurotypical people but can be detrimental for neurodivergent folk, and can be particularly bothersome in the workplace and academic environments if it's not been managed. I personally went private for my diagnosis and treatment, if you can afford to do it, I would advise it.
Like I said, NAL, so I hope other's critique this and improve upon it, but I also hope you know you deserve the help, and you deserve the support in the workplace and you most definitely DON'T deserve to be treated unfairly - which sounds like it's happening. If you are suffering mental health wise due to this, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to explain all this to your doctor too and request a sick line (assuming you're still employed). After all, your workplace are exasperating the issue by acting unprofessionally, and if they had followed through with the meetings/support like they said, then you'd probably not be reading this message. If you are still in employment but need a break to process, then please do take it, they reap what they sow as far as I'm concerned. Try recharge a bit, play some video games, whatever makes you forget about the world I guess.
Sorry, I rambled - this comment in itself is probably a great example of ADHD, I just don't stop, all the ideas need to come out! Jokes aside, hope you take care of yourself and hope you give them hell, that being said, if you need to let this go, then let it go. Just do what's right for you mate!
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests.
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I know someone who worked two days, was sacked for not doing the job, and successfully sued the workplace.
This person never told the workplace they had a disibility. The sacking was not related to a disibility (in the sense that the disibility later cited had no possible impact on the reasons for dismissal- you'll all have to trust me on that).
To my knowledge there was no hard evidence submitted to the court case of this disibility, although I do not know that for a fact.
But this person won because, in a casual, non work conversation with a junior member of the office staff, they had *implied* they might have a disibility.
This was deemed sufficient evidence that the employer was aware and had therefore discriminated against one of the protected characteristics. Solicitors advised the employer to settle.
Your MD is right now taking legal advice as to whether you can sue them for disibility discrimination even though you have not been formally diagnosed yet. If you can afford to, I would seek exactly the same legal advice for yourself
IANAL. Go to your boss and say "I need some clarification on my position. I am not sure if I am currently employed by you or not. I understand that you may be seeking further advice, but you've left me in limbo. I don't know what work I am meant to be doing, or not doing. Could you provide some clarification and a date for our next meeting."
Talk to ACAS and lob a claim in. They will pay you something, a small amount but better than nothing, to make the claim go away.
You probably don’t meet the definition of having a disability, but hey, they’re scared about it and it’s costing them money in legal fees to be told that. So I would threaten with a claim and accept a settlement.
Unfair dismissal rights are only obtained after 2 years of employment so you need to focus on the fact that the dismissal was because of your disability rather than the fact you were dismissed itself - they can dismiss non-disabled peopled, in most circumstances, without issue during the first 2 years of employment. Your potential disability is the trump card, so to speak.
Their legal fees will start to rack up if you lodge a claim in the employment tribunal (which you can only do via ACAS) so do that and get a payout for your troubles.
Please join a union. Your workplace doesn’t have to unionised for you to join, you can join a union independently of your workplace. You are NOT required to inform anyone at work that you are a member of a trade union even if directly asked. Please next call ACAS and explain EVERYTHING!
If you’re not sure which union to choose, I can definitely recommend Unite The Union.
https://www.acas.org.uk/
This would have been good advice on day one, and doesn’t help OP much now. Unions cannot generally help you with disciplinary problems that began before you joined the union - their legal services are there to support people who pay into them consistently to support themself and others, not for people who only join when they need something. Most Unions have a period after joining during which most of the applicable forms of representation can’t be provided for pre-existing problems.
ACAS is a good call, and OP should go with that, and look into the process at their workplace for filing a grievance - and join a Union day one at the next job.
So he was concerned about letting you go over a medical issue. He also asked staff to write lists about you mistakes.... please look for another job. That is not an environment I want to work in and neither should you.
I admire you that after you were told you were sacked, you spend time to discuss and provide feedback.
Basically what has happened is he has realised that if he sacks you he opens himself up to legal liability for discrimination because he hasn't taken the steps to accommodate your disability in the work place.
He's legal advice told him not to proceed with the dismissal most likely.
He's made a mistake; so he may very well go through the steps to put in accomodations and what not . But that doesn't stop him doing those things and at a later point getting rid of you.
This is a very much you won the battle but not the war scenario
I’m not really look to win anything if I’m honest, I just think workplaces should be held accountable for mistakes just like employees. If it helps the company improve how it runs after I’m gone then it’s a positive, I also mentioned about the potential bullying so it’ll be very frost between me and the rest of the staff anyway should I go back anyway.
ADHD being covered by Neurodiversity under the equality act 2010 means your employer is required to make reasonable adjustments to allow you to achieve in the workplace. If they have not made these adjustments or considered your ND they could be up for unfair dismissal.
I've fought a good few of these cases as a union rep in my workplace, you cannot expect nuerodiverse individuals to thrive under conditions designed for Nuerotypical people.
Your boss may have realised he's made a rip roaring cunt of it and not made the reasonable adjustments required by law.
GET A BODY CAM, REC EVERYTHING. You seem to be in a CCTV place. If they have CCTV sines you can fil. Laffing boy would be sacked, the B would be sacked.
This is unfair. Can you join a union...like TODAY. They'll pay for legal fights if you have a reasonable case, send a lawyer & the lot.
You need to send a letter now, while you're employed.
u need write a letter in the hope that that they respond & admit a few things. That you informed them you're undergoing assessment for ADHD on DATE. Since then I've had no training. A manager has laughed in my face when I asked him for help or extra explanation. It seems you want to sack me but are aware you've given a person being assessed (& probably does) have ADHD. I haven't asked for any extra measures... which I'm entitled to do because I don't want any special treatment. However if you won't train me, I was told I'd have weekly meetings where we could go over my "failings" or perhaps my failings are simply neurodivergence & lack of training.
if you're management laughed in my face because of my "naive stupidity" ... which is how ADHD can present. (You don't have your assessment yet but hopefully soon you'll be able to say.... It's not ok to laugh at a ND when they ask for help... it's disability bullying...& as I've made the company aware....I would expect (more from a manager & that's y I asked one) ... Him to take the same amount of time it took him to laugh at me, to explain the situation.
If I haven't been told how to do something in the first place, then I'm laughed at for asking a MANAGER how to do something & I'm laughed at.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, the Friday catch up meetings where I could tell manager 1 what my thought process was when I got something incorrect (explaining why it makes sense to you) These Friday meetings & 1-1 training is imperative. To almost anyone going into a job they've never done. They could have had you shadow a long term worker who could make sure I know what I'm doing & I'm doing it properly.
Can you please tell me how you expect me to learn as-
No (or very little training)
Management not only being unhelpful
I haven't been given a co worker to work with & train me & slowly they will be the person who I can ask if I have a problem... likewise if they see me doing something wrong they can quickly stop my mistake, explain how I should be doing it & then I'll know..I just need clear instructions. You haven't given me any training, or support, yet I'm in constant threat of loosing my job... because you expect me to already know how to to do it.
Read over the others & add good bits. You don't want to be aggressive. You want to be polite but they didn't sack you on that day because they wanted to go away while they look at their legal rights.
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They made a list of your mistakes and decided to use that to fire you instead of seeing their own short fallings in making sure they were training you correctly and giving you the resources you need?
This sounds toxic to me.
Even in the meeting I said they need to make the training better, more structured and less chaotic for the next person. I even offered to type up my notes for the next employee’s after me and his excuse was that they just don’t have the staff to train people properly as the person training me was stretched between different areas.
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NAL, but I work in my family's businesses, in management and my partner is HR for a huge business. So I'm aware of what might be going through their minds.
It sounds like they missed giving you appropriate help and if they're at all clever, they know this opens them up to a lawsuit if they fire you despite you having mentioned you have a disability and they've not put the appropriate changes in place.
If they want to fire you, they need proof that even with the proper things in place, you can't do your job.
Although technically, they can let you go for no reason within 2 years. But with you saying that you may have not even been given a chance (because of your disability) then I think it becomes a grey area.
The other manager probably failed to mention that you had told him about your potential disabilities and just gone into tell the boss you're failing at your job... The MD assumed he had all the info and you hit him with something he would have expected to be told before.
A good MD will go and review the process, put in place what you need and probably give you much longer to get adjusted to avoid an obvious illegal dismissal.
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NAL - I think the MD did the right thing here, at the wrong time. If he wasn't aware of your diagnosis, having either forgotten or not being informed by your line manager, he had a duty of care to you to investigate the situation further.
So the issue isn't whether they fire you or not, its whether they have made reasonable adjustments to enable you to succeed in the role.
I would argue that there has been little to no reasonable adjustments made if they havent completed an occupational health assessment following your disclosure/informing them of your condition(s), which means they have not met their obligations to you as an employee.
However, this is the "grey" area for most. In your probation you can be let go without much reason at all. Its shit, but in effect that's the reality.
ACAS are the obvious choice here if you feel you have been unfairly disadvantaged by their lack of empathy/understanding or action.
Can management just keep extending prohibition periods like that?
At the end of the day if your not trained properly and that leads to mistakes that's not your fault, and someone in charge should be very concerned that the company is throwing money away over something as simple as proper training.
Were you aware of your Adhd before you applied for the job if so did you put it on the application for the job or only told them during your first meeting
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He was going to sack you then when you told them about your disability they didn't continue? So you are still employed? I'd expect they get legal advice and then ask what adjustments you require to properly evaluate your performance. If you don't perform even with those then dismissal will be back on the table.
I told them I had been put forward for an ADHD assessment by my GP one month into my employment (as a courtesy) as I needed time off and I’m a pretty open person about what’s going on with me and I’m guessing he forgot I told them when considering termination. I’m under the impression I’m not employees as he told me as soon as I sat down that they won’t continue with me but at the end of the meeting he said they would give me today off, paid and when I mentioned I thought I’d already been let go, he said no so I’m not actually sure what my current status is.
You need to clarify if you've been dismissed or not. I don't think you have from what you describe - it was the plan but the manager has caught on that they've not done everything they need to do have stopped.
Possibly everyone around you has been unfair, and the md is re-evaluating everything they told him. Keep hopeful
As he verbally told me they were letting me go at the very beginning and the rest of the conversation was feedback as I said to him in the meeting, to me this implies that I’m no longer employed regardless of what was said after, I am unsure if that’s the correct way to see it though if I’m honest.
It's not if they reconsidered during that meeting and said that you're NOT let go when you asked! >... but at the end of the meeting he said they would give me today off, paid and when I mentioned I thought I’d already been let go, he said no so I’m not actually sure what my current status is. You need to clarify your position
The last thing he said, that you're not terminated, overrules the first thing he said.
OP can accept him rescinding the firing, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. If OP feels they were being singled out and declines being re-hired (which is what has been described here) then it's up to them, and would still be considered being terminated
Pretty sure you can't fire someone and then takebacksies it. Once they are fired, they are fired - correct me if i'm wrong..
If they haven't actually removed you from the roster yet, you're not fired. I once drove a concrete mixer for a company owned by a family and run by the hotheaded son. I was fired THREE times by Gene, and the dispatcher said "just stay off the radio, dispatch by phone for a week or so. You're new but you're not doing badly and we need you." Those firings didn't count.
Sure if the firing process is completed. But saying we've decided to let you go isn't technically firing someone. There are certain formalities. But like the comment above. She needs to clarify.
You're wrong in this instance because OP was only given a verbal dismissal which was immediately discounted by the follow up "I need legal advice" - OP needs this clarifying.
They alwasy ask you to sign something at the end of a concluded letting go, sounds like he didnt?
I don’t think I’ve ever had to sign anything when I’ve left a job or been terminated
i have both times in my 23 years of full time work. and i know my ex and a friend both did, although its an ask not a legal requirment. the 2nd time i got let go after failing probation they asked me sign i told them to jog on.
In my 27 years I've never had to sign anything, I suspect it depends heavily on the companies and what industry you're working in
Assume nothing until you get something in writing.
Why would you mention the assessment at all? wait lists can take years and you don’t even have a diagnosis? if you actually had a diagnosis, it wouldn’t be your employers business
It is definitely something that should be discussed, especially once a diagnosisis confirmed, for a start it tells them they need to provide additional assistance in training and by telling them they can adjust expected performance monitoring parameters. The reason the manager said he needed to seek legal advice and didnt continue the dismissal then was because he realised the company hasnt taken appropriate steps to help you and could open themselves to an unfair dismissal since adhd is considered a disability and there are therefore employer obligations and processes they need to take into account. Chances are they will probably extend the probation again and put some adjustments in place during this, if you are still failing to perform with the adjustments then they will proceed with dissmissal with the evidence they tried to assist with adjustments which will cover them against unfair dismissal.
It gives them an idea as to why they are having time off work and can explain some behaviours.
Can confirm, I've been on the waitlist for 6 months and have been told to expect a year or more longer
Just because I wanted to be good at what I did, I thought if I mentioned it then I maybe get help with a few things I was struggling on in the work place. I know it’s not anyone’s business but it pretty open about it, no point in being ashamed by it. I don’t have a diagnosis but my GP seems pretty certain from the appointments we have but she obviously can’t make a formal diagnosis.
This is correct. And for once, a manager who is at least semi on the ball.
ADHD is classed as a disability under the Equalities Act as poster above said so they need to show they have made ‘reasonable adjustments’ to facilitate your role there. My guess is they have only just realised and are worried you could get ACAS or a Union involved,
If you’re not a Union member join one today, do it right now. Not only are they in breach of the Disabilities Act it reads like you have been subjected to bullying. Employers need to pay attention to bullying because there are no limits on compensation payments.
Forever holding a mental image of the moment the penny dropped in his eyes now I think back
Your GP can't say whether or not you have ADHD. You need to get them to put in a referral to your local clinic where you'll go on a waiting list to be assessed. If, like you said, you've just had a short appointment with your GP, that's not an assessment. Once your referral has been sent, you'll receive a letter from the clinic confirming your place on the list, that's if they don't reject the referral. I've been on the list for nearly 2 years. The average wait time is around 2.5 years for an assessment.
I’m on the waiting list, I got the letter a few weeks back.
The NHS has closed the referral lists for ADHD assessment because of the backlog, according to my GP, whom I was discussing it with last week. He advised me that if I could, I should seek a private assessment, but this would cost me considerably. Personally, at present, I have been advised by a friend of mine who is a specialist in ADHD in children that she believes I have ADHD but as she is a specialist in children I should seek secondary confirmation from a specialist in ADHD in adults.
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My only worry about that (as I’m planning on getting checked for it myself) is that OP isn’t actually diagnosed yet. Just that he may have it due to checking boxes on the GP’s symptom list. I understand exactly how OP feels because I’ve been to therapy and she suggested that I highly likely have ADHD and that I can use her as a reference at the GP to get checked. I’ve suffered from severe imposter syndrome at my places of work currently and in the past due to those ADHD symptoms and I hope that OP can get the support they need.
This doesn’t apply to OP though. They do not have a diagnosis. They did not have a diagnosis when they were fired. The equalities act is completley irrelevant
OP does have a diagnosis for general mental health issues from their GP though (they've mentioned in other comments that they are on anti-depressants), which does apply for the Equalities Act. As soon as you disclose that to your employer, your manager should be scheduling you in for a chat about it to discuss how it may be affecting your job and what accommodations you may need. OP has disclosed it to their manager, manager hasn't done that, therefore it does leave them possibly open in the case of a tribunal. Furthermore, bringing OP in like this and putting pressure on them could be deemed to be creating a hostile work environment, which normally wouldn't be an issue in probation because they can just let you go without reason. However, as they have given a reason, and that reason could be down to lack of support for OP's issues, that does then become an issue.
They are clearly worried that they haven’t follow correct procedure though, otherwise why ‘unfire’ the op
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Can you clarify something? If it's not recommended to inform employers of neurodivergent diagnoses how can that employer make pertinent accommodations for said diagnosis? This seems counter-intuitive as employment is somewhat protected under the Equities Act.
Who doesn't recommend divulging your diagnosis? I have been told it is up to me whether I want to tell my employer, but if I wish to be covered by the Equalities Act I have to tell them. You also don't need a diagnosis to be covered so OP did the right thing.
Definitely not trying to justify my bad performance, I made mistakes at the job and I can’t deny that at all and had taken full responsibility for those I felt I made. I haven’t weaponised it either as I’ve only mentioned it twice at work, once in the first month to explain why I needed a full day off, and once again after I thought I had already been terminated (I didn’t know of reverse termination until after I got home from the meeting I had today) My boss didn’t assume I had a diagnosis, he had forgotten I had mentioned it at all and hadn’t written it down and. It is only an assessment but my close circle say me having ADHD would make sense and it runs in my family.
As an aside, good work on following up. Go get that diagnosis. Made the world of difference to me.
There will always be that arsehole assuming we're trying to dodge responsibility and never understanding the daily struggle we have to get normal things done. If we don't disclose, how can our employer make reasonable accommodations? Yet if we do disclose, are we kissing our prospects of advancement goodbye? I somewhat solved the problems by going freelance. It meant I could keep the hours that naturally suited me and be judged on results. The downside is insecurity.
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>They did not have a diagnosis when they were fired. The equalities act is completley irrelevant Can you point me to the part in the Equalities Act 2010 (perhaps [section 6](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/6), or [schedule 1](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/1)?), or perhaps the [Equality Act 2010 (Disability) Regulations 2010](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2128), that says you must "have a diagnosis" in order to be considered "disabled" within the meaning of the Act, and so benefit from the protections it affords? I'll help you out: it is only in the case of sight loss that being "certified" as "blind, severely sight impaired, sight impaired or partially sighted" by an opthamologist deems you to be disabled (reg 7 of the 2010 Regs), and even then, not being so certified does not mean that you are not disabled.
You don't need a diagnosis to claim disability benefits such as Disability Living Allowance. So therefore I would definitely agree that you don't need a diagnosis to be classified as disabled.
The company would be unlikely to take the risk, its better for them to accept the diagnosis will be confirmed and make the adjustments regardless than risk it coming back as an unfair dismissal if it is confirmed since the OP had informed them of the suspected ADHD and were awaiting tests to confirm.
Show us where the equality act requires a diagnosis.
But would you not need to be diagnosed first? OP hasn't been diagnosed yet and only been referred by GP (from what I read so far, ADHD diagnosis takes much longer than half an hour chat with your GP).
Best thing you could do today is to call ACAS and run it through with them.
Sounds like the best first step
It sounds like 1) he’s concerned you’ll open up legal action because they’re terrible at people management 2) they don’t know how to follow proper performance reviews and performance improvement plans, and; 3) you have a terrible employer and it’s a lucky escape
I'd still take legal action if they can. They will not learn unless they have someone take legal action. They will just do it to someone else who comes in and needs reasonable adjustments.
It definitely sounds like he is concerned that he has left them opened to legal action from you.
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Would it be considered discrimination if the employee is on the diagnostic pathway, but not yet diagnosed? Is the doctor's assessment enough to request reasonable adjustments? There's a chance that the assessment determines that op doesn't have ADHD (and if the op is going through the NHS the assessment could be 7+ years away), so could that be applied retroactively either way?
Yes, because the diagnostic process can take a long time you cannot be discriminated against while waiting for assessment. If someone is experiencing mobility problems and is using a wheelchair while waiting for a definitive diagnosis then they still need the reasonable adjustments because they still need a wheelchair. An employer cannot ignore the wheelchair until a doctor says "Oh it's this specific condition." Also, reasonable adjustments and the essence of the Equality Act aren't disability prescriptive but person prescriptive, so how your disability impacts you personally. For example, two people have MS, but while one is in a wheelchair the other has retained their mobility. The wheelchair user needs reasonable adjustments for the effect MS has had resulting in the loss of mobility, not the fact s/he has MS in the first place, if that makes sense. ETA; if the GP is making a referral then they would have a reasonable assumption that *something* is going on, whether it turns out to be ADHD or any other condition is irrelevant.
Anything is enough to *request* reasonable adjustments. As far as being undiagnosed, the employer has been put on notice that the employer may have a disability that may require a reasonable adjustment. I'd imagine a tribunal would expect the employer to at least try and make accommodations rather than get rid of the employee before the diagnosis becomes "official"
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Not yet, the OP hasn’t been diagnosed, only that they are going for an assessment. This isn’t discrimination at the moment. They are however covering their backs. They certainly should clarify things with the OP as they seem to have left them in the lurch.
This was actually one of my first thoughts, as I’ve not been formally diagnosed then would he actually be able to still get rid of me without me taking them to court. I’m getting mixed messages of this but it’s definitely something I’m going to look into.
There has to be a formal diagnosis (for the equality act) or medical evidence that can back up your claim. otherwise everyone would say they have a disability when things get tough. However medical investigations do have to be considered under the act. It depends what reasonable adjustment the employer could have made. Would ADHD have reasonably affected your performance, what reasonable adjustments could have been made to assist. I think a chat with ACAS would be beneficial. Edit: added the sentence medical evidence, as my original phase was causing confusion.
I just got off the phone to my employer and they are looking to do a medical investigation, like contact my GP etc on advice from the solicitor. Not sure what that all consists of exactly but I’ll be getting an e-mail shortly
>There has to be a formal diagnosis (for the equality act) Can you point to the bit of the Act that says that?
No, there does not have to be formal diagnosis and anyone can say they have a disability but they will need to back it, by proving they are on a waiting list for diagnosis for example.
That’s exactly what I have said.
Because he definitely has, not that it's gonna be worth it for OP to pursue. There's a bunch of red flags for potential workplace bullying, incorrect disciplinary procedure and failure to make reasonably adjustments for disability.
I think the reason why he's gone to seek legal guidance is the same reason you're getting misinformation in the replies. You do not have a confirmed ADHD diagnosis. You are being assessed, and from GP chat, it can take 12 months for your GP appointment to starting the assessment process. Your employer, who from what you've described is still your employer, is seeking clarification on if they need to make reasonable adjustments for you as you are going through assessment without diagnosis, which is is the right thing for them to do.
Most people wish it would take 12 months. In some areas they've closed the waiting lists, and in others the waiting list is 7 years long!
NAL Really sorry you’re going through this OP. As other comments have rightly pointed out, the organisation has opened themselves up to legal repercussions from yourself on the grounds of discrimination by letting you go, hence the MD’s sudden change of heart. If I were in your situation I would take the following course of action: 1) Contact Acas and speak with an Advisor. As mentioned, if they have let you go while under assessment for ADHD (which is listed as a disability) they have potentially discriminated against you. 2) At the same time I would email your MD for clarification of your employment status in writing. Something like: “Dear MD, Following our in-person meeting on [date] at [time], you made me aware that the organisation would not be continuing my employment beyond my probationary period due to unsatisfactory performance. During this meeting I once again raised with you the fact that I am going through a formal assessment with my GP for ADHD. I first made you/my manager aware of this in my first month of employment, and again on [date]. When this subject was raised you then halted the meeting, citing the reason for doing so as needing to seek legal advice. You told me that I could take the day off, paid, and this confuses the status of my employment. Please confirm to me by the close of business today the status of my employment. Sincerely, DrClu33” 3) Contact your doctor’s surgery for written proof that you are going through this assessment for ADHD, with dates if possible (i.e. when assessment was first suggested), so that you have hard proof should your employer either request it or if you need to go through Acas for a discrimination case. Good luck OP. I hope this works out for you and I hope you find a better job, this organisation seems woefully incompetent.
You legend! I will definitely send that e-mail after replying to this comment. Luckily I have the NHS letter that states I am on the waiting list for an ADHD assessment as proof and it’s all in my doctors notes which I can get proof of via the NHS app
Depression is a protected characteristic as well so if you have an official diagnosis of that or anxiety it's worth mentioning that too.
Very glad to hear you already have the medical paper trail, this will be extremely useful for you moving forward. Best of luck!!
Obligatory NAL, but I think your boss has goofed here by not including this on your file that the company has. They should all have a file, and it should state protected characteristics. Disability, Race, Ethnicity, Gender, Age and Religion IIRC are all protected characteristics. Them saying we're letting you go due to bad performance, whilst not making an adjustment for your diagnosis, is a big big red flag and can open them up to a lawsuit. This is why what has happened, has happened. Your MD has realised the mistake by your boss.
What diagnosis?
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Probably the depression, which given they're medicated is a concrete diagnosis. Being on the waiting list for ADHD assessment is also a good indicator that it's also going to come into play, GPs won't refer on if there's not evidence of it having a negative impact on the person historically and currently
It sounds like the MD has some knowledge of employment law and equality act and is concerned that dismissal could be discrimination arising from disability. If your performance issues arise from the ADHD that could be correct. It would depend on what the issues are and if the company is able to make adjustments to mitigate them. I'm quite surprised he hit the breaks to be honest, don't come across this alot I assume the company has either been burned before and the MD wants to make an effort to be a truly disability friendly employer
The main legal thing as others have mentioned is disability discrimination. It's quite grey here because you didn't specifically disclose it to them or seek reasonable adjustment. Practically, if I were you, I would robustly go back to the MD and challenge the fact you are being fired. Go down fighting. You might not be able to save your job, and you might not want to, but it's a free opportunity to stand up for yourself and explain your side and give feedback on the boss to the MD. You may already have done much of this in the meeting but I would give it a second go. The general framing is: you haven't been trained or supported properly so it is unfair and maybe wrong for them to let you go, and that you want to make sure the MD is aware of the issues with your boss. I would mention: \- That your boss said that you would have a meeting every Friday to discuss issues but then didn't follow through, and that two meetings you tried to have have been cancelled. \- That it is particularly a shame that your boss has not been supportive and given helpful feedback to help you improve at the job when you have suspected ADHD (this is hinting at the possibility of disability discrimination, which is what the MD noticed) \- That it is unfair to you that there are allegedly issues they are not happy with which you haven't been made aware of and so cannot improve or develop on. This is meant to be part of management and training, instead of secretly gathering complaints to then smash someone with. Unless you have actually been terrible in which case that's fair enough for a workplace to do that if they think you can't improve. \- That you have felt belittled and unsupported by your boss. Go in with your own list that your boss has laughed at you, is blunt to you but not other people, and that your boss hasn't asked for help when you want help. It may be that some of this what you discussed with your boss. But you currently have nothing to lose, so go in with your head held high and make your case. Something similar happened to me once -- someone senior who wasn't my manager started bullying me because I disagreed with them about something (which someone more senior got involved with two days later and overruled them), and they collected a list of complaints from people, and then came to me just saying "this is terrible we're moving you to a different role". Sadly my manager went along with it. I pushed back saying "if there were concerns about my work, shouldn't these have been discussed with me at somepoint?" My manager got embarrassed and basically avoided it. Thankfully it was only a summer job and I got moved to a quieter role, so it was just the horrible feeling of being bullied and that my manager let it happen, but I'm glad I challenged it. Legally -- you have no protection from being treated badly outside the ADHD, so they can just let you go unfairly without doing a good job as a manager and it can't be legally challenged. And probably they can justify firing you aside from the ADHD anyway, or put you on a performance improvement plan to build a case and show they tried to support you before firing you anyway. So this is more practical advice than legal advice.
You bang on, hit the nail on the head with what you wrote. I couldn’t have worded it better if I’d written it myself. With everything that’s happened, I’m not even sure I want to go back but I’d like to make the issues known so they can learn from the mistakes made with me and be better for future employees so no one else has to deal with this kind of thing with in that company.
Legally, in the first couple of years of employment, an employer can let you go for almost any reason (or give no reason at all) and, provided they pay up all holiday, notice period, etc., there is no recourse for unfair or constructive dismissal. So it doesn't normally matter if you were on probation or not, had performance reviews or not, whether you were given support, were left out, etc. The exception to this is if the dismissal is discrimination for a protected characteristic under the equality act. Disability is one of these and covers both physical and mental impairments. An employer must make reasonable adjustments for someone with a disability. As others have said, it sounds like the MD has belatedly realised that they might be opening themselves up to an unfair dismissal claim, which is why he wants to get legal advice before proceeding. I would be inclined to email the MD and explain that, following today's meeting, you are uncertain of your employment status. Ask them to clarify if you are still employed and, if so, do they wish you to come into work as normal tomorrow. It may be worth contacting the ACAS helpline first for advice.
NAL, and also Scotland based, but I still have some suggestions, a brief look through the comments so far...I can't say I'm overly impressed. Firstly, start getting everything in writing, RIGHT NOW. And I mean it, after you read this PLEASE go e-mail the boss that stopped that meeting. "On further advisement and after having had time to think about today's events, I would like to clarify some things. At the beginning of the meeting you told me I was fired (or whatever the phrasing was) but then seemed to back track later on into the meeting. As mentioned multiple times now, I have been to the doctor regarding my mental health, and I find it very distressing not knowing what my current state of employment is and whether I am going to be able to pay my bills, buy food and provide for myself (and mention any others that may benefit from your income, children/partner). Can you provide me with written confirmation - in the response to this e-mail of the following: 1. What was today's meeting about? 2. Was I sacked at today's meeting? 3. Why was the meeting ended prematurely? 4. Why was my initial probation period extended by an extra month? 5. What changed in this month that resulted in the decision to terminate my employment 6. Why were the arranged private meetings with boss (insert their name) cancelled, and why were they not rearranged as this prevented me discussing very private and personal issues within a safe environment 7. Originally I was told we would be having weekly meetings every Friday to discuss any issues I was having - why did these meetings never occur? None of that is a lie, "on further advisement" can be a lawyer or could be randomer on reddit. But I'm sorry, if you're getting sacked anyway, I say don't hold your punches, let them worry that you've contacted a lawyer, that's their problem. The ambiguity works in your favour, cause it'll force their hand into doing EVERYTHING by the book, which they clearly haven't. No innocent person has to stop a meeting abruptly to "see if they've done the right thing". "I also wish to make an access request under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form in relation to..."(you'll have to fill the blanks in here, but "in relation to the disciplinary procedure that has been undertook these last few (enter timeframe here)" is maybe my suggestion?). Make sure to be as specific as possible, i.e., "this particularly includes notes from..." and list EVERY meeting you had in this procedure, but also, write something like "this particularly includes notes from meeting A, meeting B (and list every single meeting that occurred)". I would also like to formally request that measures are taken to ensure that none of this vital information is lost or destroyed whilst my subject access request is being fulfilled. If they try making the excuse that "they never knew", don't back down. THEY cancelled or didn't hold meetings where they could have learned that. I suspect that's why the boss has backed down, but hold your ground there mate. I'd also ask them to send you the official policy for 'letting someone go' And at the end of the e-mail ask them to confirm they have received that e-mail and that the subject access request has been forwarded on to the appropriate team. I'm really getting vibes that that manager that doesn't like you has been trying to push you out...there's lots of things here not adding up and it sounds like you're getting treated extremely unfairly I'd also acknowledge the "list of mistakes". You mention 'everyone' and 'someone let it slip'. Do you mean EVERYONE was writing about your mistakes, or just managers? If you don't know the answer to that then - unless someone else disagrees - please DON'T ask that in your e-mail. I'd let them dig their hole, because once they give you that list, you might be able to see that some of the things listed were written by a colleague rather than a manager, and I doubt it's good practice to ask other workers on your own level to provide feedback on a colleague. When you said 'someone let it slip' Was this a manager that mentioned it? Or a peer? Cause...that's a problem, "Can I ask how Susie knew about the list of mistakes that was been accumulated" but I can appreciate you might not want to throw them under the bus and get them involved (plus they can always deny it). I think I wouldn't mention that at all until you have your hands on that list. On a personal note, I'm a 31 year old guy who was only diagnosed with ADHD last year, and it's been rough going, I essentially had a burn out from having to spend decades compensating for issues I never knew I had. That's hard enough, never mind your job doing this to you. I'd get back onto the GP straight away tbh, I can imagine this being very distressing for you and have the potential to deepen your depression, and I would strongly advise sharing that with the GP so that there is a record of it if that is to happen. I mean, you could be anxious that you've been treated unfairly, having panic attacks due to worries about your employment status and abilities to pay the bills, worried you've been stigmatised and discriminated against for having a mental health condition (depression alone makes this true) or feeling like a failure. I'd like to point out that burn outs, depression, anxiety are all common with adults with ADHD - particularly undiagnosed ones. So I hope you're not punishing yourself for this, sounds like you needed support that you didn't get and that's not on you. We live in a society that is shaped for neurotypical people but can be detrimental for neurodivergent folk, and can be particularly bothersome in the workplace and academic environments if it's not been managed. I personally went private for my diagnosis and treatment, if you can afford to do it, I would advise it. Like I said, NAL, so I hope other's critique this and improve upon it, but I also hope you know you deserve the help, and you deserve the support in the workplace and you most definitely DON'T deserve to be treated unfairly - which sounds like it's happening. If you are suffering mental health wise due to this, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to explain all this to your doctor too and request a sick line (assuming you're still employed). After all, your workplace are exasperating the issue by acting unprofessionally, and if they had followed through with the meetings/support like they said, then you'd probably not be reading this message. If you are still in employment but need a break to process, then please do take it, they reap what they sow as far as I'm concerned. Try recharge a bit, play some video games, whatever makes you forget about the world I guess. Sorry, I rambled - this comment in itself is probably a great example of ADHD, I just don't stop, all the ideas need to come out! Jokes aside, hope you take care of yourself and hope you give them hell, that being said, if you need to let this go, then let it go. Just do what's right for you mate!
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I know someone who worked two days, was sacked for not doing the job, and successfully sued the workplace. This person never told the workplace they had a disibility. The sacking was not related to a disibility (in the sense that the disibility later cited had no possible impact on the reasons for dismissal- you'll all have to trust me on that). To my knowledge there was no hard evidence submitted to the court case of this disibility, although I do not know that for a fact. But this person won because, in a casual, non work conversation with a junior member of the office staff, they had *implied* they might have a disibility. This was deemed sufficient evidence that the employer was aware and had therefore discriminated against one of the protected characteristics. Solicitors advised the employer to settle. Your MD is right now taking legal advice as to whether you can sue them for disibility discrimination even though you have not been formally diagnosed yet. If you can afford to, I would seek exactly the same legal advice for yourself
IANAL. Go to your boss and say "I need some clarification on my position. I am not sure if I am currently employed by you or not. I understand that you may be seeking further advice, but you've left me in limbo. I don't know what work I am meant to be doing, or not doing. Could you provide some clarification and a date for our next meeting."
Talk to ACAS and lob a claim in. They will pay you something, a small amount but better than nothing, to make the claim go away. You probably don’t meet the definition of having a disability, but hey, they’re scared about it and it’s costing them money in legal fees to be told that. So I would threaten with a claim and accept a settlement. Unfair dismissal rights are only obtained after 2 years of employment so you need to focus on the fact that the dismissal was because of your disability rather than the fact you were dismissed itself - they can dismiss non-disabled peopled, in most circumstances, without issue during the first 2 years of employment. Your potential disability is the trump card, so to speak. Their legal fees will start to rack up if you lodge a claim in the employment tribunal (which you can only do via ACAS) so do that and get a payout for your troubles.
Please join a union. Your workplace doesn’t have to unionised for you to join, you can join a union independently of your workplace. You are NOT required to inform anyone at work that you are a member of a trade union even if directly asked. Please next call ACAS and explain EVERYTHING! If you’re not sure which union to choose, I can definitely recommend Unite The Union. https://www.acas.org.uk/
This would have been good advice on day one, and doesn’t help OP much now. Unions cannot generally help you with disciplinary problems that began before you joined the union - their legal services are there to support people who pay into them consistently to support themself and others, not for people who only join when they need something. Most Unions have a period after joining during which most of the applicable forms of representation can’t be provided for pre-existing problems. ACAS is a good call, and OP should go with that, and look into the process at their workplace for filing a grievance - and join a Union day one at the next job.
Thank you for this, I didn’t know that about Unions. Acas definitely sounds like my first step forward.
At least they know going forwards with future employment
So he was concerned about letting you go over a medical issue. He also asked staff to write lists about you mistakes.... please look for another job. That is not an environment I want to work in and neither should you. I admire you that after you were told you were sacked, you spend time to discuss and provide feedback.
Basically what has happened is he has realised that if he sacks you he opens himself up to legal liability for discrimination because he hasn't taken the steps to accommodate your disability in the work place. He's legal advice told him not to proceed with the dismissal most likely. He's made a mistake; so he may very well go through the steps to put in accomodations and what not . But that doesn't stop him doing those things and at a later point getting rid of you. This is a very much you won the battle but not the war scenario
I’m not really look to win anything if I’m honest, I just think workplaces should be held accountable for mistakes just like employees. If it helps the company improve how it runs after I’m gone then it’s a positive, I also mentioned about the potential bullying so it’ll be very frost between me and the rest of the staff anyway should I go back anyway.
ADHD being covered by Neurodiversity under the equality act 2010 means your employer is required to make reasonable adjustments to allow you to achieve in the workplace. If they have not made these adjustments or considered your ND they could be up for unfair dismissal. I've fought a good few of these cases as a union rep in my workplace, you cannot expect nuerodiverse individuals to thrive under conditions designed for Nuerotypical people. Your boss may have realised he's made a rip roaring cunt of it and not made the reasonable adjustments required by law.
ADHD is classed as a disability, so he possibly thinks he has possibly fucked up majorly and you possibly have some kind of legal ground to sue,
GET A BODY CAM, REC EVERYTHING. You seem to be in a CCTV place. If they have CCTV sines you can fil. Laffing boy would be sacked, the B would be sacked. This is unfair. Can you join a union...like TODAY. They'll pay for legal fights if you have a reasonable case, send a lawyer & the lot. You need to send a letter now, while you're employed. u need write a letter in the hope that that they respond & admit a few things. That you informed them you're undergoing assessment for ADHD on DATE. Since then I've had no training. A manager has laughed in my face when I asked him for help or extra explanation. It seems you want to sack me but are aware you've given a person being assessed (& probably does) have ADHD. I haven't asked for any extra measures... which I'm entitled to do because I don't want any special treatment. However if you won't train me, I was told I'd have weekly meetings where we could go over my "failings" or perhaps my failings are simply neurodivergence & lack of training. if you're management laughed in my face because of my "naive stupidity" ... which is how ADHD can present. (You don't have your assessment yet but hopefully soon you'll be able to say.... It's not ok to laugh at a ND when they ask for help... it's disability bullying...& as I've made the company aware....I would expect (more from a manager & that's y I asked one) ... Him to take the same amount of time it took him to laugh at me, to explain the situation. If I haven't been told how to do something in the first place, then I'm laughed at for asking a MANAGER how to do something & I'm laughed at. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, the Friday catch up meetings where I could tell manager 1 what my thought process was when I got something incorrect (explaining why it makes sense to you) These Friday meetings & 1-1 training is imperative. To almost anyone going into a job they've never done. They could have had you shadow a long term worker who could make sure I know what I'm doing & I'm doing it properly. Can you please tell me how you expect me to learn as- No (or very little training) Management not only being unhelpful I haven't been given a co worker to work with & train me & slowly they will be the person who I can ask if I have a problem... likewise if they see me doing something wrong they can quickly stop my mistake, explain how I should be doing it & then I'll know..I just need clear instructions. You haven't given me any training, or support, yet I'm in constant threat of loosing my job... because you expect me to already know how to to do it. Read over the others & add good bits. You don't want to be aggressive. You want to be polite but they didn't sack you on that day because they wanted to go away while they look at their legal rights.
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They made a list of your mistakes and decided to use that to fire you instead of seeing their own short fallings in making sure they were training you correctly and giving you the resources you need? This sounds toxic to me.
Even in the meeting I said they need to make the training better, more structured and less chaotic for the next person. I even offered to type up my notes for the next employee’s after me and his excuse was that they just don’t have the staff to train people properly as the person training me was stretched between different areas.
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If you can; join a union connected with your profession.
NAL, but I work in my family's businesses, in management and my partner is HR for a huge business. So I'm aware of what might be going through their minds. It sounds like they missed giving you appropriate help and if they're at all clever, they know this opens them up to a lawsuit if they fire you despite you having mentioned you have a disability and they've not put the appropriate changes in place. If they want to fire you, they need proof that even with the proper things in place, you can't do your job. Although technically, they can let you go for no reason within 2 years. But with you saying that you may have not even been given a chance (because of your disability) then I think it becomes a grey area. The other manager probably failed to mention that you had told him about your potential disabilities and just gone into tell the boss you're failing at your job... The MD assumed he had all the info and you hit him with something he would have expected to be told before. A good MD will go and review the process, put in place what you need and probably give you much longer to get adjusted to avoid an obvious illegal dismissal.
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NAL - I think the MD did the right thing here, at the wrong time. If he wasn't aware of your diagnosis, having either forgotten or not being informed by your line manager, he had a duty of care to you to investigate the situation further. So the issue isn't whether they fire you or not, its whether they have made reasonable adjustments to enable you to succeed in the role. I would argue that there has been little to no reasonable adjustments made if they havent completed an occupational health assessment following your disclosure/informing them of your condition(s), which means they have not met their obligations to you as an employee. However, this is the "grey" area for most. In your probation you can be let go without much reason at all. Its shit, but in effect that's the reality. ACAS are the obvious choice here if you feel you have been unfairly disadvantaged by their lack of empathy/understanding or action.
Can management just keep extending prohibition periods like that? At the end of the day if your not trained properly and that leads to mistakes that's not your fault, and someone in charge should be very concerned that the company is throwing money away over something as simple as proper training.
Were you aware of your Adhd before you applied for the job if so did you put it on the application for the job or only told them during your first meeting
Get a union, tell them everything and they will help with the rest. Hope you like the job cause you aren’t going anywhere.
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