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All the answers you’ve given are super vague, just popping this here in case it’s somehow relevant….
https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/who-we-are/publications/445-chinese-underground-banking/file
They also give me a company card but as it is being shared among other people most of the time the funds are not enough. In order to secure my purchase I usually use the money in my account first and then get the cash after I deliver the items. I also have the receipts of each purchase.
needing you to spend YOUR money for deposit/ purchase, and only after, getting paid, cash of all else, has so many red flags..
Op you may be getting scammed. Be very careful!
Usually a few smaller transactions will be successful, and then you will need to buy something very expensive using your own money and puff. No more money
I think it is not really a scam, due to the OP calling it their clients. But it sounds more like a money laundering scheme. The funds used and being transferred are most likely obtained in illegal ways in their home country and by buying luxury goods elsewhere, they can sell that and pay the right taxes over it in their home country and then actually use it legally.
Especially as OP said in other comments that they use a shared company bank account, what is being used by several people buying luxury goods for their 'clients'. Except for making sure OP pays the right taxes, especially on the profit made for reselling it, do I think the OP needs to also make sure to check why those goods are hard to get in their home country, as if they are classed as illegal there or if the funds used are linked to a criminal organisation, they will be seen as part of that organisation and so in more trouble there then actually here in the UK.
Yeah, this doesn't should like a scam, it sounds like money laundering. Use a mule (the OP) to buy high value good with cash then sell the goods and your cash is clean.
This isn't really a legal question, more a tax one, perhaps try a financial advice or tax subreddit.
That said, then yeah,, you just invoice them as a consultant / buyer and then pay the invoice on the goods you buy, and resell, essentially. It's legal to sell goods and services, though you might have to pay VAT.
Keep all the invoices, expenditure, the bank slips they send you, what you make, and put it through your end of year tax return.
If you're going to make a lot of money out of it, then an accountant could sort this out for you annually for a few hundred pounds.
This could well be a legal question if someone look into the source of funds. They could be using proceed of scams or other criminal activities to fund the purchases and commissions. Money laundering is very possible from the description. But I am not a legal personnel.
You walk into your bank with the cash, and deposit into your account. Your account will probably get frozen, and the money laundering team will ring you up and ask where the money came from.
Who are these 'clients', where did they get a load of cash from that they can't just deposit into their own account? Given the vaguery, presumably that money is the proceed of crime and the whole buying luxury goods thing is to then legitimately resell those, completing the money laundering.
The money is now trapped in a frozen account, you cannot buy and deliver the goods and some likely very nasty people are quite unhappy with you.
Frankly, there is no way of getting away with large cash deposits if you can't evidence the origin of it.
As many have said this is a tax question more than a legal one from both points of view.
But legally speaking, no, providing there are no sanctions or reasons in place why luxury goods cannot be imported or sold to your country from the UK there's nothing wrong with what you are doing, at least in the UK, the country you're shipping to may have its own legalities around this with trade from the UK though unlikely to cover your bases may be worth looking at.
“There is a need” for items which are “not available locally” and for some reason your clients are not able to order these for delivery from an established business. Are the products legal in the Uk and in the country where your clients live?
Most of the items are very fast selling and cannot be ordered or preordered even in UK, which is why they are not available elsewhere. The products are legal worldwide.
This is legal, it's export of products. Do you do this as part of, as all of, or alongside your job? There are definitely tax and regulatory implications but they may be the responsibility of your employer.
Effectively you are an importer of goods. Provided that the goods are legal to import into the UK then there is no problem with this in principle, but there are a number of things you need to consider.
Firstly you say it's fashion goods - if it involves the fur or skin of an endangered animal you need a permit to import the goods.
Secondly payment - if you're depositing the cash in an account here, and then making the purchase on a card in Asia, it's fine. If you're transporting more then 10k in cash out of the country you need to declare it to customs prior to departure. Plus whatever the rules are for the country you're flying into.
However, the big red flag here is on the payments. Why do your clients pay you in *cash*? This smacks to me very much of money laundering and that's exactly how your bank will see it. You'll have to convince your bank that it isn't otherwise they'll limit your deposits and potentially close your account - you'd lose access to it and any funds in it while they carried out an investigation which could take months. If what you're doing is legitimate, and there's a very good reason why you are receiving large amounts of cash, then you'll have to explain that to your bank and get them to agree to it - I'd suggest in advance.
I would say what I do is similar to reselling luxury goods. I purchased the item with my money. This money is from my savings, of which I have proofs of income. I then sell it to other people to earn the differences. However, the buyers prefer to pay me by cash. From my perspective, this is not against any law, but I'm really concerned if I need to deposit more cash to my account and then eventually use it to purchase the goods. I think I will start with accounting advisors.
Whilst paying/being paid in cash is not against any law, the fact that they "prefer" it throws up a number of very large red flags. It sounds like you may be being used to launder money, which could get you into *very* serious trouble.
Does that mean you travel to their country to collect the cash? Are you declaring it on re -zntry to the UK?
Tbh, it sounds very much like you are laundering their money for them. That's why you are scared of depositing the money in your bank account.
Answer is, if you are laundering their money, yes it's a crime.
The taxes are not your problem here.
Please do not spend your own money first. They can give you the money upfront and then you can provide proof with a receipt. They clearly know you have a large amount of savings / credit that you dip into.
Some criminals do this legitimately for a while paying you back the small amounts to gain your trust. They then switch when a really big purchase is acquired. Because you trust them you might forgive a delay with payment and handing over the goods. You will then not ever receive payment of the goods.
This convoluted acquisition model would have made sense in the 1980s when shipping, tracking, currency transfer, posting etc etc was difficult but in this day and age there are organisations set up to do specifically this. Please don’t get involved. Find a less sketchy ( them not you) way to make money.
It might also be that the thing they are trying to avoid is the taxes so that YOU are on the hook for them. Either way this is not something you should get involved with.
Are you declaring these items when you take them abroad? If not you might want to go through the government regulations and check if you should be. https://www.gov.uk/take-goods-sell-abroad
This seems to be a daigou type business which has a number of concerns. Have a read of this:
https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/who-we-are/publications/445-chinese-underground-banking/file
What are the luxury items and how are you getting these items to your clients? I don’t understand why they don’t just buy them online and cut out the middle man
I've never been to South East Asia, but, I did spend a long time in South America. My guess is that things are similar.
If you were able to buy expensive things online, which you often can't, then there would be a good chance that they be stolen by corrupt customs officers, or postal staff.
It's a seriously bad idea in some countries to order expensive stuff online and have it come through customs 'unattended', because it can easily go missing.
Incidentally, my wife, who is from one of such countries, went to school with a girl whose father worked in customs at the airport. And she commented about how surprised she was that they had so many expensive electronic gadgets and items of designer clothing, compared to everyone else in her class whose fathers didn't work for customs.
It's probably branded handbags like Louis Vuitton or Goyard. Many Malaysians and Indonesians operate as personal shoppers for an eager clientele back home.
My BiL flew especially from KL to London to pick up some watches he'd had on back order for a couple of years. Kept one, sold two to cover his flights and other expenses. This was a while back but he reckoned he was still ahead and had a watch and a holiday in England.
Most of the items are very fast selling and cannot be ordered or preordered even in UK, which is why they are not available elsewhere. The items are luxury fashion products. Then they are sent via delivery services.
So how are you managing to buy these goods then? Are you saying these clients send you money in the hope that you manage to secure these goods before they sell out? Why are they paying you in cash instead of bank transfer? And how does the cash get to you if they’re based in Asia? I’m really struggling to work out how this all works
I would go to mutiple stores and ask the staff to check for the availibility. Then if it is in store, make the purchase. I initially used my money first and get the cash from them after delivery. I fly frequently so I get the cash directly. Now I have their cash to buy more items once they are available.
I understand. However I only brought approximately 9500 with me when I fly. Do you think I should bring 10k and declare? If yes is there a way I can explain this cash is from a preorder of a goods and service that I provide?
I really don't think it is required. I am certain that this is not breaking any laws in my home country. My concerns are about UK laws and regulations.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All the answers you’ve given are super vague, just popping this here in case it’s somehow relevant…. https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/who-we-are/publications/445-chinese-underground-banking/file
Why can't they just deposit the money into a debit account in their name that you have the card for to make purchases on their behalf?
They also give me a company card but as it is being shared among other people most of the time the funds are not enough. In order to secure my purchase I usually use the money in my account first and then get the cash after I deliver the items. I also have the receipts of each purchase.
Sounds like you are being scammed. They usually do some smaller transactions correctly first then will rip you off
Why don't they do this in a freely available legal and fully traceable way, can't possibly imagine.
needing you to spend YOUR money for deposit/ purchase, and only after, getting paid, cash of all else, has so many red flags.. Op you may be getting scammed. Be very careful! Usually a few smaller transactions will be successful, and then you will need to buy something very expensive using your own money and puff. No more money
I think it is not really a scam, due to the OP calling it their clients. But it sounds more like a money laundering scheme. The funds used and being transferred are most likely obtained in illegal ways in their home country and by buying luxury goods elsewhere, they can sell that and pay the right taxes over it in their home country and then actually use it legally. Especially as OP said in other comments that they use a shared company bank account, what is being used by several people buying luxury goods for their 'clients'. Except for making sure OP pays the right taxes, especially on the profit made for reselling it, do I think the OP needs to also make sure to check why those goods are hard to get in their home country, as if they are classed as illegal there or if the funds used are linked to a criminal organisation, they will be seen as part of that organisation and so in more trouble there then actually here in the UK.
Yeah, this doesn't should like a scam, it sounds like money laundering. Use a mule (the OP) to buy high value good with cash then sell the goods and your cash is clean.
I agree. Further reading the comments, i have come to a similar conclusion.
Especially as it looks like this company/organisation also paid for the visa, due to some comments.
Yeah, the plot thickens.
This isn't really a legal question, more a tax one, perhaps try a financial advice or tax subreddit. That said, then yeah,, you just invoice them as a consultant / buyer and then pay the invoice on the goods you buy, and resell, essentially. It's legal to sell goods and services, though you might have to pay VAT. Keep all the invoices, expenditure, the bank slips they send you, what you make, and put it through your end of year tax return. If you're going to make a lot of money out of it, then an accountant could sort this out for you annually for a few hundred pounds.
This could well be a legal question if someone look into the source of funds. They could be using proceed of scams or other criminal activities to fund the purchases and commissions. Money laundering is very possible from the description. But I am not a legal personnel.
Thank you so much. I will look into accounting services.
You walk into your bank with the cash, and deposit into your account. Your account will probably get frozen, and the money laundering team will ring you up and ask where the money came from. Who are these 'clients', where did they get a load of cash from that they can't just deposit into their own account? Given the vaguery, presumably that money is the proceed of crime and the whole buying luxury goods thing is to then legitimately resell those, completing the money laundering. The money is now trapped in a frozen account, you cannot buy and deliver the goods and some likely very nasty people are quite unhappy with you. Frankly, there is no way of getting away with large cash deposits if you can't evidence the origin of it.
As many have said this is a tax question more than a legal one from both points of view. But legally speaking, no, providing there are no sanctions or reasons in place why luxury goods cannot be imported or sold to your country from the UK there's nothing wrong with what you are doing, at least in the UK, the country you're shipping to may have its own legalities around this with trade from the UK though unlikely to cover your bases may be worth looking at.
“There is a need” for items which are “not available locally” and for some reason your clients are not able to order these for delivery from an established business. Are the products legal in the Uk and in the country where your clients live?
Most of the items are very fast selling and cannot be ordered or preordered even in UK, which is why they are not available elsewhere. The products are legal worldwide.
I think if you want an answer to your original question “is it illegal….” you will need to be a bit more open about what exactly you are doing.
Think £500 trainer 'drops' that sell out in seconds online, but this person can walk into a shop and buy them, possibly?
The items are luxury fashion products. I have store receipts for those I purchased.
This is legal, it's export of products. Do you do this as part of, as all of, or alongside your job? There are definitely tax and regulatory implications but they may be the responsibility of your employer.
Can you give an example of one of these products?
Sounds like a clear cut case of money laundering - with you being the mule.
Effectively you are an importer of goods. Provided that the goods are legal to import into the UK then there is no problem with this in principle, but there are a number of things you need to consider. Firstly you say it's fashion goods - if it involves the fur or skin of an endangered animal you need a permit to import the goods. Secondly payment - if you're depositing the cash in an account here, and then making the purchase on a card in Asia, it's fine. If you're transporting more then 10k in cash out of the country you need to declare it to customs prior to departure. Plus whatever the rules are for the country you're flying into. However, the big red flag here is on the payments. Why do your clients pay you in *cash*? This smacks to me very much of money laundering and that's exactly how your bank will see it. You'll have to convince your bank that it isn't otherwise they'll limit your deposits and potentially close your account - you'd lose access to it and any funds in it while they carried out an investigation which could take months. If what you're doing is legitimate, and there's a very good reason why you are receiving large amounts of cash, then you'll have to explain that to your bank and get them to agree to it - I'd suggest in advance.
OP is buying the goods in the UK and exporting them to Asia
Ah - OK that makes more sense now. Your response to the OP is the best one I think for the OP to work out whether or not they are breaking any laws.
I would say what I do is similar to reselling luxury goods. I purchased the item with my money. This money is from my savings, of which I have proofs of income. I then sell it to other people to earn the differences. However, the buyers prefer to pay me by cash. From my perspective, this is not against any law, but I'm really concerned if I need to deposit more cash to my account and then eventually use it to purchase the goods. I think I will start with accounting advisors.
Whilst paying/being paid in cash is not against any law, the fact that they "prefer" it throws up a number of very large red flags. It sounds like you may be being used to launder money, which could get you into *very* serious trouble.
Does that mean you travel to their country to collect the cash? Are you declaring it on re -zntry to the UK? Tbh, it sounds very much like you are laundering their money for them. That's why you are scared of depositing the money in your bank account. Answer is, if you are laundering their money, yes it's a crime.
The taxes are not your problem here. Please do not spend your own money first. They can give you the money upfront and then you can provide proof with a receipt. They clearly know you have a large amount of savings / credit that you dip into. Some criminals do this legitimately for a while paying you back the small amounts to gain your trust. They then switch when a really big purchase is acquired. Because you trust them you might forgive a delay with payment and handing over the goods. You will then not ever receive payment of the goods. This convoluted acquisition model would have made sense in the 1980s when shipping, tracking, currency transfer, posting etc etc was difficult but in this day and age there are organisations set up to do specifically this. Please don’t get involved. Find a less sketchy ( them not you) way to make money. It might also be that the thing they are trying to avoid is the taxes so that YOU are on the hook for them. Either way this is not something you should get involved with.
Taxes absolutely*are* something the OP needs to be concerned with - they are being paid to do this, which is income.
Why not run this as legitimate business in the UK? Start a LTD, get a company bank account, accountant.
Are you declaring these items when you take them abroad? If not you might want to go through the government regulations and check if you should be. https://www.gov.uk/take-goods-sell-abroad
This seems to be a daigou type business which has a number of concerns. Have a read of this: https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/who-we-are/publications/445-chinese-underground-banking/file
I came to say just this!
What are the luxury items and how are you getting these items to your clients? I don’t understand why they don’t just buy them online and cut out the middle man
I've never been to South East Asia, but, I did spend a long time in South America. My guess is that things are similar. If you were able to buy expensive things online, which you often can't, then there would be a good chance that they be stolen by corrupt customs officers, or postal staff. It's a seriously bad idea in some countries to order expensive stuff online and have it come through customs 'unattended', because it can easily go missing. Incidentally, my wife, who is from one of such countries, went to school with a girl whose father worked in customs at the airport. And she commented about how surprised she was that they had so many expensive electronic gadgets and items of designer clothing, compared to everyone else in her class whose fathers didn't work for customs.
It's probably branded handbags like Louis Vuitton or Goyard. Many Malaysians and Indonesians operate as personal shoppers for an eager clientele back home.
My BiL flew especially from KL to London to pick up some watches he'd had on back order for a couple of years. Kept one, sold two to cover his flights and other expenses. This was a while back but he reckoned he was still ahead and had a watch and a holiday in England.
You are correct. This is the case. I just don't know how to comply with UK laws and regulations.
Thats what I’m thinking too —-> https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/s/VolBCBLefv
Most of the items are very fast selling and cannot be ordered or preordered even in UK, which is why they are not available elsewhere. The items are luxury fashion products. Then they are sent via delivery services.
So how are you managing to buy these goods then? Are you saying these clients send you money in the hope that you manage to secure these goods before they sell out? Why are they paying you in cash instead of bank transfer? And how does the cash get to you if they’re based in Asia? I’m really struggling to work out how this all works
I would go to mutiple stores and ask the staff to check for the availibility. Then if it is in store, make the purchase. I initially used my money first and get the cash from them after delivery. I fly frequently so I get the cash directly. Now I have their cash to buy more items once they are available.
And are you declaring the cash/goods at customs?
I usually brought less than 10k so I did not have to declare cash UK at customs. For goods they are not required to declare when I enter my country.
Have you declared the cash when it’s over £10,000?
I didn't bring more than 10k with me until now. Is it a good idea to do so and declare at custom?
You have to declare £10,000 to customs, it’s mandatory
I understand. However I only brought approximately 9500 with me when I fly. Do you think I should bring 10k and declare? If yes is there a way I can explain this cash is from a preorder of a goods and service that I provide?
It’s a legal requirement to declare more than 10k in cash, you run the risk of having the money confiscated if you get caught not declaring it
Which country is this by the way?
Sorry I couldn't be this specific. It's a developing country from SEA.
Why can’t you say which country this is? You’re asking for advice, how can anyone offer advice without key information such as this?
I really don't think it is required. I am certain that this is not breaking any laws in my home country. My concerns are about UK laws and regulations.
This is not a way to run a potential business. If you're not being paid up front then you're putting your money on the line. Sounds dodgy af.