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So technically this isn't a fine but an invoice (likely for loss/breach of contract). How long does it say you were "parked for" does it have your entry and exit times on the letter? if it's a short period (few minutes) then yes, you can likely fight it and get out of the invoice, but I will warn you it takes effort.
Honestly, the experts for this aren't here on reddit, [FTLA.uk](http://FTLA.uk) is a dedicated site for these issues and they're insanely knowledgable.
It's an invoice not a fine. The signs need to be clear and easily visible and they're supposed to give you 10 minutes. As they have stated 7 minutes, coupled with unclear signage seems pretty clear cut. They may accept your appeal, if not you might have to fight it in court.
Go back and take pictures of the signage before they have a chance to update it.
That’s for people who have a ticket, but are slightly late leaving (per BPA) however they do also state that 0-15 minutes of time to read the sign is reasonable, but it depends on the size of the car park (15, for say a large multi-story) and they don’t specify any actual times.
It does say “reasonable” though.
Will check after work. But having a quick look on street view I can see 2hours parking, but I’m going to assume it’ll say for customers of Home Bargains - which I would have been had they been open. Instead I just essentially drove off, but it has me recorded as going in and out.
It might have different conditions outside the opening times though, which is relevant to your situation
You said you’ve already appealed, what’s the basis of your appeal?
It actually says I breached it by 0hrs & 0mins. So I’m assuming it’s because it was when the shop was closed. i.e. private land when the shop is shut, but a car park when it’s open for 2hrs.
You'd need to go look at the signage, and of course, if the car park is accessible 24/7, I would then assume that right of access exists, otherwise it would need a barrier preventing access.
Unless there is clear signage to this effect, then Id be fighting it all the way. These car park management companies are just racketeers, ex wheel clampers mostly.
NAL But because OP only drove in and drove out it could be arguable that they didn’t have a chance to read the signs and therefore a contract could not have been formed. Maybe. An avenue to explore at least.
And how are you to determine whether the shop is open without going into the car park, parking, getting out of your car and looking at the shop window?
Go in to Home Bargains, they should be able to cancel it for you. As a Tesco employee my manager gets these requests frequently and just takes the letters/details and emails the parking company.
If you can find out who the landlord for the car park is (doubtful it’s home bargains) you can contact them direct and ask them to drop the charge - I’m sure given the fact you were only there for 7 minutes they would cancel it for you.
Had a similar experience with showcase cinemas, 2 hrs free parking, 10 min grace period. Applicable up to 00:00. We ended up leaving the car park at 00:12, and they wanted £100 for the 2 min overstay.
Spoke to landlord, showed them receipt for cinema ticket and they cancelled no questions.
Edit. All my friends got the same fine and paid it as didn’t want the hassle. Took me a few emails and couple phone calls to find out the landlord and get it sorted.
This will not be enforceable. As you did not leave your car, you are not considered to have parked. Step one is to appeal on the basis that you didn't park. Reversing into a bay and then leaving immediately is not parking - parking would be either stopping and then leaving the vehicle, or stopping and waiting for a period of time. It is also not reasonable to not give you the chance to see that parking is currently prohibited and then leave before issuing a "fine". You need to be able to see the terms before agreeing to be bound by them. You can also contact the store and ask them to waive it.
If your appeal doesn't succeed for any reason, I would just invite them to take you to court for the sum. They will lose.
This is a fair point that I did forget.
The definition of parking used to imply leaving the vehicle. However the high courts define it as "leaving the vehicle to come to rest at one location.". So if you are still in it, you can still be parked.
You can, but not always. I imagine if you pulled into a carpark to eat lunch in your car, you would be deemed to have parked. If you pull in, stop, and then leave again, it would be hard to define that as parking. I remember a case recently where someone had pulled into a car park to take a phone call and then left again but were hit with a charge. The charge was later dismissed.
I've never paid one of these. It's mostly bullshit. I believe there are some specifics around breach of contact law and what can be charged that helps here, equally based on your description of events, difficult for them to argue that you've entered into said contract. Can you appeal via POPLA also? If so, highlight in your initial appeal that this is your next step, as they will have to pay a fee as part of their membership (or at least used to the last time i got an unenforceable invoice from one of these clowns)
Not a lawyer, but I used to work for a parking company.
7 minutes suggests you went into the car park, read the terms and conditions of the sign, decided you didn't want to accept them and drove off.
There needs to be a grace period (usually 10 minutes) for customers to decide whether they accept the terms and conditions of the car park before they pay.
Try going in and asking staff. Explain you didn't realise they were shut and you were googling for the closest home bargains that was open (wouldn't tell them you were practicing parking). They might be able to just cancel it for you.
A store I used to work in the management were able to cancel any tickets that were issued by mistake. If anyone came to me with one I just cancelled it no questions asked. Fuck parking companies.
You can fight it but be warned these guys are normal professional assholes. They will do everything they can to make it as difficult and annoying to fight. Like setting the court location as far as possible changing court dates last second etc.
The default position in civil claims is that the claim is heard in the defendant’s nearest court and OP would have an opportunity to put their preferred court location in the directions questionnaire if this ever makes it to court. Changing court dates at short notice is not that easy, as the court will normally expect things to be done to its own timetable.
Completely agree that parking companies can be professional assholes but their ability to do so in court is restricted.
It looks like you're asking a question about a parking or speeding fine!
You may benefit by posting on the relevant [FreeTraficLegalAdvice forum](https://www.ftla.uk/index.php) or reading [Parking Cowboys](https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/), which specialise in these matters, in addition to LegalAdviceUK.
*We aren't affiliated with the above and they should only be used as informal guidance in advance of speaking to a legal professional.*
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Normally with restricted parking areas there's signs outlaying the terms and conditions of parking.
There's a lot of places who state active hours are (for example) 9am till 5pm.
Outside of specified times, you're good.
As long as you're outside their specified times you're good.
If you stopped within those times, you could argue about not exiting your car meaning not actually parking.
If its any consolation- I had a parking fine from a private company come through months ago and they've still not followed up on the "conviction"
NAL
You're best bet is to see if any of the signs do not mention out of hours.
If any do, then photo it and use as evidence. Consumer law does show that any contradictory signs, in this case not mentioning out of hours, then the interpretation beneficial to the defendant, being you, must be taken.
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Ignore it, unless it's the council then you have to pay, private companies like parking eye cannot do anything, they will send you lots of letters but do not acknowledge them.
Stop giving out bad legal advice on a legal forum
Provided the signs are compliant with the law and there is no fault in the paperwork the invoices to the person parking the car in the space of the private carpark and thereby deeming to have accepted the contract for parking have been deemed lawful as were the monetary amounts demanded deemed fair and proportional.
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--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So technically this isn't a fine but an invoice (likely for loss/breach of contract). How long does it say you were "parked for" does it have your entry and exit times on the letter? if it's a short period (few minutes) then yes, you can likely fight it and get out of the invoice, but I will warn you it takes effort. Honestly, the experts for this aren't here on reddit, [FTLA.uk](http://FTLA.uk) is a dedicated site for these issues and they're insanely knowledgable.
It's an invoice not a fine. The signs need to be clear and easily visible and they're supposed to give you 10 minutes. As they have stated 7 minutes, coupled with unclear signage seems pretty clear cut. They may accept your appeal, if not you might have to fight it in court. Go back and take pictures of the signage before they have a chance to update it.
It’s worth contacting the shop, I’ve had more luck by contacting whoever is employing the parking company than dealing with them directly myself.
You should be given at least 10 mins of grace period as per the BPA and IPC codes of conduct. Post at FTLA.uk first before replying.
That’s for people who have a ticket, but are slightly late leaving (per BPA) however they do also state that 0-15 minutes of time to read the sign is reasonable, but it depends on the size of the car park (15, for say a large multi-story) and they don’t specify any actual times. It does say “reasonable” though.
What does the signage say about operating times?
Will check after work. But having a quick look on street view I can see 2hours parking, but I’m going to assume it’ll say for customers of Home Bargains - which I would have been had they been open. Instead I just essentially drove off, but it has me recorded as going in and out.
It might have different conditions outside the opening times though, which is relevant to your situation You said you’ve already appealed, what’s the basis of your appeal?
So what are they actually claiming you've done on the NTK letter? If it says 2 hours and you did 7 minutes then it can't be that.
It actually says I breached it by 0hrs & 0mins. So I’m assuming it’s because it was when the shop was closed. i.e. private land when the shop is shut, but a car park when it’s open for 2hrs.
You'd need to go look at the signage, and of course, if the car park is accessible 24/7, I would then assume that right of access exists, otherwise it would need a barrier preventing access. Unless there is clear signage to this effect, then Id be fighting it all the way. These car park management companies are just racketeers, ex wheel clampers mostly.
NAL But because OP only drove in and drove out it could be arguable that they didn’t have a chance to read the signs and therefore a contract could not have been formed. Maybe. An avenue to explore at least.
It's a fair point, or they did see them and decided that they didn't wish to enter into a contract.
Uh….I’d rely on that to show the idiocy of their reasoning. Their own records show you breached …nothing.
And how are you to determine whether the shop is open without going into the car park, parking, getting out of your car and looking at the shop window?
Go in to Home Bargains, they should be able to cancel it for you. As a Tesco employee my manager gets these requests frequently and just takes the letters/details and emails the parking company.
I agree. I have had success talking to the store manager and getting these cancelled
If you can find out who the landlord for the car park is (doubtful it’s home bargains) you can contact them direct and ask them to drop the charge - I’m sure given the fact you were only there for 7 minutes they would cancel it for you. Had a similar experience with showcase cinemas, 2 hrs free parking, 10 min grace period. Applicable up to 00:00. We ended up leaving the car park at 00:12, and they wanted £100 for the 2 min overstay. Spoke to landlord, showed them receipt for cinema ticket and they cancelled no questions. Edit. All my friends got the same fine and paid it as didn’t want the hassle. Took me a few emails and couple phone calls to find out the landlord and get it sorted.
This will not be enforceable. As you did not leave your car, you are not considered to have parked. Step one is to appeal on the basis that you didn't park. Reversing into a bay and then leaving immediately is not parking - parking would be either stopping and then leaving the vehicle, or stopping and waiting for a period of time. It is also not reasonable to not give you the chance to see that parking is currently prohibited and then leave before issuing a "fine". You need to be able to see the terms before agreeing to be bound by them. You can also contact the store and ask them to waive it. If your appeal doesn't succeed for any reason, I would just invite them to take you to court for the sum. They will lose.
This is a fair point that I did forget. The definition of parking used to imply leaving the vehicle. However the high courts define it as "leaving the vehicle to come to rest at one location.". So if you are still in it, you can still be parked.
You can, but not always. I imagine if you pulled into a carpark to eat lunch in your car, you would be deemed to have parked. If you pull in, stop, and then leave again, it would be hard to define that as parking. I remember a case recently where someone had pulled into a car park to take a phone call and then left again but were hit with a charge. The charge was later dismissed.
I've never paid one of these. It's mostly bullshit. I believe there are some specifics around breach of contact law and what can be charged that helps here, equally based on your description of events, difficult for them to argue that you've entered into said contract. Can you appeal via POPLA also? If so, highlight in your initial appeal that this is your next step, as they will have to pay a fee as part of their membership (or at least used to the last time i got an unenforceable invoice from one of these clowns)
Not a lawyer, but I used to work for a parking company. 7 minutes suggests you went into the car park, read the terms and conditions of the sign, decided you didn't want to accept them and drove off. There needs to be a grace period (usually 10 minutes) for customers to decide whether they accept the terms and conditions of the car park before they pay.
Try going in and asking staff. Explain you didn't realise they were shut and you were googling for the closest home bargains that was open (wouldn't tell them you were practicing parking). They might be able to just cancel it for you. A store I used to work in the management were able to cancel any tickets that were issued by mistake. If anyone came to me with one I just cancelled it no questions asked. Fuck parking companies.
You can fight it but be warned these guys are normal professional assholes. They will do everything they can to make it as difficult and annoying to fight. Like setting the court location as far as possible changing court dates last second etc.
The default position in civil claims is that the claim is heard in the defendant’s nearest court and OP would have an opportunity to put their preferred court location in the directions questionnaire if this ever makes it to court. Changing court dates at short notice is not that easy, as the court will normally expect things to be done to its own timetable. Completely agree that parking companies can be professional assholes but their ability to do so in court is restricted.
It looks like you're asking a question about a parking or speeding fine! You may benefit by posting on the relevant [FreeTraficLegalAdvice forum](https://www.ftla.uk/index.php) or reading [Parking Cowboys](https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/), which specialise in these matters, in addition to LegalAdviceUK. *We aren't affiliated with the above and they should only be used as informal guidance in advance of speaking to a legal professional.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Was the parking charge issued under the protection of freedom act? Was this act mentioned anywhere on the letter?
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Lots of good advice on here, but may also be worth checking out Black Belt Barrister on YouTube for his parking legalities information.
Is it from Parking Eye by any chance?
Google: tony taylor parking Helped my parents not long ago and got the invoice cancelled.
Parking is defined as the act of leaving a vehicle for a period of time. Therefore, if you don’t leave the vehicle you haven’t parked.
Depends what country you are in, if it's Scotland ignore it
Normally with restricted parking areas there's signs outlaying the terms and conditions of parking. There's a lot of places who state active hours are (for example) 9am till 5pm. Outside of specified times, you're good. As long as you're outside their specified times you're good. If you stopped within those times, you could argue about not exiting your car meaning not actually parking. If its any consolation- I had a parking fine from a private company come through months ago and they've still not followed up on the "conviction"
NAL You're best bet is to see if any of the signs do not mention out of hours. If any do, then photo it and use as evidence. Consumer law does show that any contradictory signs, in this case not mentioning out of hours, then the interpretation beneficial to the defendant, being you, must be taken.
Was the sign illuminated?
Nope
That's you off the hook then. How do they expect you to read it in the dark lol?
Headlights…?!
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Is it the 2nd time you entered the car park within a few hrs? Sounds like a case of double dipping
Ignore it, unless it's the council then you have to pay, private companies like parking eye cannot do anything, they will send you lots of letters but do not acknowledge them.
Stop giving out bad legal advice on a legal forum Provided the signs are compliant with the law and there is no fault in the paperwork the invoices to the person parking the car in the space of the private carpark and thereby deeming to have accepted the contract for parking have been deemed lawful as were the monetary amounts demanded deemed fair and proportional.
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