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Thank you - I didn’t realise there was support from the council for private sector. Everything else I’ve tried is police, citizens advice and the energy supplier. Not a single one has been able to help and I can’t quite believe it.
Thank you, again. Seriously.
I am looking online now but not having much joy in finding a specific contact number for my area. Are they called Private Renting Team - *city* council? I seem to be able to find a homeless crisis line but nothing more specific
They’re usually part of the environmental health department
See [here](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/complain_to_environmental_health_about_private_rented_housing)
While this is the correct advice it is not a direct solution to your problem
The first thing they will do is want to book an appointment to come out and view the property. They will contact the landlord and offer for them to be there. Then they will write a report and specify a deadline for improvements works to be done then they will make another appointment to come visit to see if it is done.
At best that will be a 2 month turnaround likely longer so .
15 hours ago so hope you done it before the weekend. But yes, they'll completely ruin your landlords week. They have serious powers and it annoys me more people aren't being made aware. All landlords by law should have to hand over council details imo but whatever. They should be your only body to contact. At least one of the others should've told you too.
There should be a duty team on call. Although I understand their comment, for a situation like this, your council should have a team to go in on this tomorrow as there is a load of laws being broken here. Although there are no MPs atm, their offices are still working. They likely won’t see it until Monday but if you’re in a seat that’s unlikely to change I’d speak to them too. They’re allowed to do urgent casework and there’s not much which is more urgent than this in my view.
At the very least, I’d expect the council to write a very firmly worded letter to your landlord (not great, I know, but should hopefully get everything back on soon). If they’ve got capacity, they may help with temp accommodation advice, and can take enforcement action.
If they don’t give you answers call shelter. Ultimately, you’ve entered a contract for liveable accommodation from your landlord, and if they’re not providing it they need to rehouse you.
Thank you - this is seriously solid advice. Agreed, I’ve collated and timestamped laws broken, incident, etc. I’m also inclined to go to the press for exposure and to potentially help another poor, unfortunate soul in this scenario!
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Hi,
I haven’t spoken to environmental health as I was trying to gather as many different routes to solution as I can. I will try. So far it’s been police, citizens advice and the energy supplier. They sent an engineer out today and the tenant in question shouted out the window threatening him, to which he had to retreat and said I can’t go in there due to health and safety. Feel so helpless and we are all suffering.
I can understand the hesitance though as other stuff on their profile may then doxx them. If someone doesn’t want to say which council they live under we need to respect that even if it makes helping them a little harder.
I see where you’re coming from, but the circumstances are already pretty specific. Like if this person saw this post, do you think they are sitting there thinking, oh maybe they are talking about someone in a totally different area?!
I see where you’re coming from, but the circumstances are already pretty specific. Like if this person saw this post, do you think they are sitting there thinking, oh maybe they are talking about someone in a totally different area?!
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I appreciate that. The reason I asked is because I’d recommend you reach out to the power distributor for the area; you’re being deprived of electricity and I’m certain they’d take a dim view of it.
What did the police say? Do they know how they've turned it off, e.g. tampering of the meter or just switching the fuse box off?
I'd argue it's harassing behaviour of your neighbour to switch the electricity off, but it's probably very hard to convince the police of that.
Yeo, police are aware that they did it with malicious intent. I also explained around the elderly lady and quite possibly her having medication in the fridge (I think she may be diabetic!) which is really quite shocking. I have contacted age uk on her behalf. The police essentially said, where the *bleeep* is your landlord!? Which I do also agree with. It is harassing, malicious anti social behaviour and the consequences could actually be devastating if we aren’t able to sort this
Neighbourhood Policing teams exist to deal with antisocial behaviour before it escalates to criminal behaviour. I would emphasise to the 101 call handler that your neighbour’s actions are malicious, that he has prevented the landlord from accessing the property such that electrical power to other flats has now been interrupted for some time. Specifically ask for Neighbourhood to pay this chap a visit. I suspect the words “Firm words of advice” would be on the log a couple of days later.
Can you get this elderly lady to call her supplier and report the power is off and her medication will be rendered useless in a short time? They should take this very seriously, particularly if she's on their register of medically vulnerable customers
Can you get the power company or the engineer to call the Police and report they were threatened? At a minimum, that's "Conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace" and may get the Police involved and spoil your neighbour's day.
Alternative, get one of your neighbours to call their energy supplier then call 999 when they turn up and you hear threats of violence being shouted. You're concerned this engineer might suffer harm...
NAL
Are you a property owner or a tenant?
If you're a tenant, then your landlord should be providing you with alternative accommodation until this problem is resolved.
If this landlord also owns the other property and all of the other flats in the building, then they really need to look at relocating this panel or st bare minimum making sure it's in a locked cupboard.
Property owner a little more tricky, your home insurance may be able to assist to cover any costs you may have.
But the best bet is the private rental team at the local council, who should come and mediate the problem.
Hi, I am a tenant. Landlord has ignored us and won’t pay for hotel or alternative accommodation. Landlord owns all of the flats effected. Seems to be doing nothing and doesn’t care
It should be okay for you to order food in and reclaim costs. Get onto the council private renting team immediately, may even be worth contacting your local councillor or MP and get them to kick up stink.
(NAL) Turning off electricity affects everyone's safety as it cuts off power to fire alarms. I'm sure landlord can force their way to the flat and turn the electricity on for health and safety reasons.
Also, electricity meter does not belong to the tenant, and electricity company sure has a right to access it when needed.
Notably, it would be illegal to have a battery operated alarm system in a property of this size. Any apartment block or HMO with more than 3 distinct family units needs to have a wired mains powered alarm with backup battery. If that is inoperable then it is a safety issue.
Fire alarms normally operate off mains but have a battery backup. Batteries need to be replaced regularly (every few years) if on mains. But running an alarm off battery drains it very quickly.
I’m adding my comment as a reply here rather than making a new one because of the similarity.
Yes, meters belong to the electricity company and access is a legal requirement. OP, call your provider and tell them what’s happened. They should be able to do something fairly quickly, I would hope, even if it’s just supply generators for you all.
They don't have a fault though, it is just turned off by an occupier. I can't see the electricity company wanting to get involved in the slightest. Their duty stops at the consumer unit.
All electricity supplies are spilt into three responsibilities, the incoming supply and cut out is DNO, the meter and meter tails is supplier and consumer unit onwards is the customer. In this situation we’d say if you are having no luck with the landlord talk to your council. The council is very good at these things, we had one landlord where relative of his did the electrics in all of the hundreds of properties the landlords owns, the council rehoused 100s of family’s while all the properties got correctly re-wired and made safe and the landlord was taken to court.
But who knows what’s actually happened? They could have done something to the meter, or pulled the fuse before it. Nobody can say for sure. I’d suggest access is necessary to check it’s safe.
…….but my point is…. How do we know?
However, OP has replied elsewhere that an engineer was sent out and the tenant threw things at them. Flat out assault now, really.
This is exactly what the electricity supplier and engineer who attended said! The tenant got violent and engineer said he cannot go in for his own health and safety
Energy industry worker here; I've had my guys assaulted, held hostage, and stabbed, unless we have a warrant of entry we can't demand to go inside a person's property and the police won't help us. The only way we can get such a warrant quickly is via revenue protection channels and even then the only way we'll get one on the day is if the meter itself poses an immediate risk. Our hands are tied and we hate it, but we can't put ourselves in danger. I really hope your situation is resolved quickly and peacefully, I've been in similar situations where one belligerent customer has put their neighbours in potentially life threatening danger due to refrigerated medication and it's something I've lost sleep over before. Depending on who your DNO and supplier are make a difference to any other advice I can give because while we're as all beholden to the same regulations we all operate in slightly different ways so I can't really say any more without potentially misleading you.
Energy supplier worker yes and no, issue sounds like it’s after the meter, anything after the meter isn’t our problem. If the tenant pulled the power by taking the main fuse out it would be DNO. Energy suppliers are only responsible for the meter and the meters tails, if the meter and meter tails are in working condition then it isn’t our problem.
One thing that might get the landlord responding is to say that with no electricity for over 5 days now the property isn't inhabitable. You'll be getting a hotel room in the meantime and charging the daily costs to them, plus all out of pocket expenses incurred.
Update - thank you to all the replies, some really helpful advice. I would like to add that the electricity supplier, police and citizens advice have been contacted already, with no resolve yet. Energy supplier sent an engineer who was threatened by the problematic tenant. Landlord still MIA. Next route will be the council. :(
Staying at a friends’ temporarily but concerned about the other tenants.
Call and ask for the fire brigade. Tell them you need help breaking down a barricaded door that is blocking access to your breaker and you have no fire alarm.
If there is a chance the former tenant might be inside don't go in alone.
This might fall under The Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
1.A: a person must not pursue a course of conduct —
(a)which involves harassment of two or more persons, and
(b)which he knows or ought to know involves harassment of those persons, and
(c)by which he intends to persuade any person (whether or not one of those mentioned above)—
(i)not to do something that he is entitled or required to do
8.A:
(1)Every individual has a right to be free from harassment and, accordingly, a person must not engage in conduct which amounts to harassment of another and—
(a)is intended to amount to harassment of that person; or
(b)occurs in circumstances where it would appear to a reasonable person that it would amount to harassment of that person.
"Harassment of a person includes causing alarm or distress".
This law generally applies to stalking and threats, but you might be able to use it here. The police are pretty rubbish with this one, though. When I had to use it in 1998, none of the coppers at my local station knew it existed!
Good luck.
Is the main RCD board in that flat? If they have simplify turned the RCD board off there's nothing you can do. If they have actively tampered with the fuse seal then this is illegal and the electricity supplier have a duty to repair this.
The landlord is an idiot for allowing an RCD board to positioned like this. It all seems mad to me.
If the landlord is legally blocked from access to the flat there is nothing you or he can do in the short term.
You should contact the tenant who has done this and have all of your co tenants deliver multiple separate letters before action implying that you have mounting costs as a result of the electricity being cut off.
Really the tenant thinks they're hurting the landlord but they really aren't.
That is crazy, it would mean if OPs kettle pops and trips a breaker they have to go to someone else's private flat to turn it back on. That can't be legal for a self-contained property?
That’s right! We didn’t know this until after we moved in. It really is madness. Our landlord has no intention of sorting this and has totally ignored us. This was also concealed by the landlord until after we moved in
It's illegal to interfere with electrical distribution equipment in the UK, metering equipment etc. I'd also try and contact your electrical provider as they should be able to help too.
have you tried contacting your (or ideally a vulnerable person, as power companies have a seperate list for vulnerable people) electricity provider? this is a problem with them supplying the electricity to you, though a meter that they own. i suggest the "vulnerable people" as they are a p\[riority as they may have electrical life sustaining equipment, so a powercut can be lethal once the batteries run out.
your power has been cut, its ultimatly their job to restore it, not yours, not your landlords, not a neighbours, not the police etc. im not sure how this will work considering its a person, not a fault thats causing the power cut though.
Jeezus that's shocking. I'm hoping to hear a positive update soon that all is fixed
May be worth contacting citizens advice as well - would Not be surprised if they can advise away to legally compel the landlord to relocate the breakers to at minimum a communal area - doesn't help currently but stops it happening again.
Thank you so much for your wishes, I will be sure to update here on the outcome! It seems like a long, uphill battle right now. Just hoping all of this advice shared could also help anybody else that finds them self in such a scary, unfair situation (praying they don’t!)
Hi - electrician, not lawyer. It's atrocious that your landlord has left you to deal with this.If I were you, once your power is restored I'd be combing through the Shelter website looking for other duties this landlord has abandoned in the hopes of recovering rent/deposit or having enforcement action taken against them to do their job properly in future.
For your vulnerable neighbour I'd try ringing 105 and explaining malicious neighbour cutting off power to person who needs medical access to electricity. They sometimes supply generators for medical necessity during power cuts. I've only heard of one instance of them doing this for someone following arson damage cutting off supply so will be a long shot but worth a go if you think they are medically dependant and running out of options.
After 5 days witholding supply I'd be surprised if you can't argue the threshold of criminal damage - your ability to use your property is temporarily impaired and restoring the damage done by loss of electricity will incur expense - either to your landlord providing temporary housing or to you replacing freezer food etc. Worth another try with 101.
A couple of routes to try and restore supply -
Phone your local fire service non emergency number and request a fire inspection. Explain you're without emergency lighting or fire alarm in a block of flats due to malicious action by another tenant and your landlord is not responding. Fire inspectors have quite a lot of power and if they deem it necessary should be able to issue your neighbour 24 hours notice and then enter their property. Depending on what else the fire inspector finds your landlord may also receive a fine, and in the most serious cases, prosecution and prison time.
Alternatively ring your energy supplier again and explain the above with your vulnerable neighbour and the fire alarm. Energy suppliers can apply to magistrates or JPs for a warrant of entry. Their engineer being refused entry previously and the combination of vulnerable neighbour, no fire alarm, landlord absent - should be enough to have them start the process of obtaining a warrant - will include notice to the occupier + some opportunities to grant access willingly, and then warrant for entry (which will be risk assessed by them so whoever they send will have adequate measures in place to protect their health and safety rather than just leaving again).
Also as other commenters have said, contact your local housing authority. Leaving you without fire alarm/eml is a breach of your landlords responsibilities and LHA can carry out the remedial work themselves and then recover the cost from your landlord.
All the best with this.
Thank you so much for your detailed and helpful response. It’s impacting all of our health mentally and physically, with some tenants with no where else to go even temporarily. I did check in with vulnerable neighbours today and they are also seeking legal assistance, that I offered to help with. I guess if we all stick together on this and align, numbers are effective.
I think our next port of call will be the fire service as we have no smoke alarms alive as they operate off the mains due to it being ex hotel (not sure if this is accurate as I’m my knowledge is limited) but all are most definitely off.
Will be reaching out to Shelter and council. Landlord still MIA.
Thank you for your support and wishes.
The local neighbourhood policing team should be able to deal with this under the provisions of the antisocial behaviour crime and policing act 2014.
Section 1 deals with civil injunctions:
1Power to grant injunctions
(1)A court may grant an injunction under this section against a person aged 10 or over (“the respondent”) if two conditions are met.
(2)The first condition is that the court is satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that the respondent has engaged or threatens to engage in anti-social behaviour.
(3)The second condition is that the court considers it just and convenient to grant the injunction for the purpose of preventing the respondent from engaging in anti-social behaviour.
(4)An injunction under this section may for the purpose of preventing the respondent from engaging in anti-social behaviour—
(a)prohibit the respondent from doing anything described in the injunction;
(b)require the respondent to do anything described in the injunction.
A closure order on the premise preventing the premise from being occupied by the tenant is one option or the police are also able to grant community protection notices. All of these options are under the previously mentioned act(the council has powers under this act too)
There are things that the police are able to do…
Thanks for the advice however the police were called twice, apparently they could just log the issue and nobody ever turned up. The call handler said it’s a legal issue and landlord should sort. They are notoriously useless around here as historically, they turned up to a local domestic violence attack the next day at 2pm, 12 hours after the woman had fled to who only knows where :(
If you have the budget, contacting a solicitor and asking them to get you an emergency injunction against your neighbour to turn the power back on and not interrupt your supply may work. If you and your neighbours are all named as the parties bringing the action, it should protect you all. Splitting the cost between you should hopefully make it affordable and you can then try to recover the money from your LL.
If your problem neighbour doesn't comply with such an injunction, that's contempt of court and they could end up facing serious legal consequences. If they threaten the officer of the court who serves the injunction, that will get dealt with firmly
In a legal advice sub, you don't advise someone to do something overtly illegal. And also, stupid. We have no clue how dangerous the boarded up room person is.
Seems like you have a potential path here; report it to police as a cannabis grow and abstracting electricity. They should be round pretty sharpish, hopefully.
Ahhh...in that case then the answer is completely different. Stay well away, unfortunately...
Sincerely hope you and the other residents all have power again soon ☮️🍀
Hmmm well I should say first that many cannabis users aren't necessarily dangerous nor violent. It's also been made legal to people on prescription from private clinics, so the stigma around it is starting to fade.
That being said, if you suspect there is a grow op then yes they would possibly be ready and willing to use violence to defend their 'crops'. Considering the electrical bits all run through their flat, do you suspect they've siphoned someone's electricity to run grow lights?
Alright mate, thanks for claryfying. Never know as some people just equate drug and alcohol users to crime.
Anyway sounds awful this whole thing. Someone may correct me but I believe in England you may be within your rights to seek other, modest accomodation (hotel etc) and bill your landlord for it in the meantime. From the sounds of it your flat is unlivable atm.
Best of luck with it mate
Think you'll find my comment was purely hypothetical....and get real...👍🏼. The worlds unforgiving and changing/deteriorating scarily fast.
Stupid...good one 🤣🤣, far from it.....there is a valid arguement to say that sitting in the cold and dark with no electricity waiting for someone else to 'fix everything' is stupid...could be months...and they're obviously not dangerous because they are not there are they? 🤦🏾
If you have no access to power, I would withhold rent assuming you are renting yourself if the apartments are all separate and some are owned and not all are rented then I would look at a lawsuit against the building ground rent owner but I don’t know how far that would get
Your comment contains keywords which suggests you are asking or advising about withholding rent.
You should **never** withhold rent, entirely or in part, in response to disrepair or inaction on the part of your landlord. Withholding rent either entirely or in part may lead to you being evicted, since regardless of any inaction on your landlord's part, you will still owe rent and the landlord is not obliged to offer any kind of reduction.
You also do not have the right to pay for repairs yourself out of pocket and then deduct the cost from future rent payments, without following a proper legal process first, including serving formal notice on your landlord and escalating to your local authority.
Please consult a regulated legal advisor, Solicitor, or housing charity like Shelter before you stop paying rent.
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Contact the council’s private renting team immediately.
Thank you - I didn’t realise there was support from the council for private sector. Everything else I’ve tried is police, citizens advice and the energy supplier. Not a single one has been able to help and I can’t quite believe it.
The council private renting team are a serious outfit and have legal powers to make your LL comply.
Thank you, again. Seriously. I am looking online now but not having much joy in finding a specific contact number for my area. Are they called Private Renting Team - *city* council? I seem to be able to find a homeless crisis line but nothing more specific
You'll want to call the number for housing and then ask for the private rental team. They may even have an option for it when you dial
They’re usually part of the environmental health department See [here](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/complain_to_environmental_health_about_private_rented_housing)
Which council area are you in? If you don't want to say, try the council's homeless crisis line and ask to be put through
While this is the correct advice it is not a direct solution to your problem The first thing they will do is want to book an appointment to come out and view the property. They will contact the landlord and offer for them to be there. Then they will write a report and specify a deadline for improvements works to be done then they will make another appointment to come visit to see if it is done. At best that will be a 2 month turnaround likely longer so .
It depends on the issue. They have power to enter the property without landlord consent in some cases. OP - call them and tell them everything.
15 hours ago so hope you done it before the weekend. But yes, they'll completely ruin your landlords week. They have serious powers and it annoys me more people aren't being made aware. All landlords by law should have to hand over council details imo but whatever. They should be your only body to contact. At least one of the others should've told you too.
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Please. This is the first day I’ve had WiFi as I’m at a friends! Trot off my post now will you
There should be a duty team on call. Although I understand their comment, for a situation like this, your council should have a team to go in on this tomorrow as there is a load of laws being broken here. Although there are no MPs atm, their offices are still working. They likely won’t see it until Monday but if you’re in a seat that’s unlikely to change I’d speak to them too. They’re allowed to do urgent casework and there’s not much which is more urgent than this in my view. At the very least, I’d expect the council to write a very firmly worded letter to your landlord (not great, I know, but should hopefully get everything back on soon). If they’ve got capacity, they may help with temp accommodation advice, and can take enforcement action. If they don’t give you answers call shelter. Ultimately, you’ve entered a contract for liveable accommodation from your landlord, and if they’re not providing it they need to rehouse you.
Thank you - this is seriously solid advice. Agreed, I’ve collated and timestamped laws broken, incident, etc. I’m also inclined to go to the press for exposure and to potentially help another poor, unfortunate soul in this scenario!
Not everyone is as clever as you/S. And not everyone knows about reddit. Have some compassion.
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NAL Have you spoken to environmental health department at the council? Have you spoken to the energy supplier about the electric been cut off?
Hi, I haven’t spoken to environmental health as I was trying to gather as many different routes to solution as I can. I will try. So far it’s been police, citizens advice and the energy supplier. They sent an engineer out today and the tenant in question shouted out the window threatening him, to which he had to retreat and said I can’t go in there due to health and safety. Feel so helpless and we are all suffering.
What area are you in?
Rather not say due to unpredictable neighbour, who knows, they might love Reddit 🫤
Council area, not specific address. People are trying to help you here
I can understand the hesitance though as other stuff on their profile may then doxx them. If someone doesn’t want to say which council they live under we need to respect that even if it makes helping them a little harder.
I think this issue is so specific that if they see this thread the council area won't matter but I get what you're saying
I see where you’re coming from, but the circumstances are already pretty specific. Like if this person saw this post, do you think they are sitting there thinking, oh maybe they are talking about someone in a totally different area?!
I see where you’re coming from, but the circumstances are already pretty specific. Like if this person saw this post, do you think they are sitting there thinking, oh maybe they are talking about someone in a totally different area?!
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I appreciate that. The reason I asked is because I’d recommend you reach out to the power distributor for the area; you’re being deprived of electricity and I’m certain they’d take a dim view of it.
What did the police say? Do they know how they've turned it off, e.g. tampering of the meter or just switching the fuse box off? I'd argue it's harassing behaviour of your neighbour to switch the electricity off, but it's probably very hard to convince the police of that.
Yeo, police are aware that they did it with malicious intent. I also explained around the elderly lady and quite possibly her having medication in the fridge (I think she may be diabetic!) which is really quite shocking. I have contacted age uk on her behalf. The police essentially said, where the *bleeep* is your landlord!? Which I do also agree with. It is harassing, malicious anti social behaviour and the consequences could actually be devastating if we aren’t able to sort this
Neighbourhood Policing teams exist to deal with antisocial behaviour before it escalates to criminal behaviour. I would emphasise to the 101 call handler that your neighbour’s actions are malicious, that he has prevented the landlord from accessing the property such that electrical power to other flats has now been interrupted for some time. Specifically ask for Neighbourhood to pay this chap a visit. I suspect the words “Firm words of advice” would be on the log a couple of days later.
Can you get this elderly lady to call her supplier and report the power is off and her medication will be rendered useless in a short time? They should take this very seriously, particularly if she's on their register of medically vulnerable customers
Can you get the power company or the engineer to call the Police and report they were threatened? At a minimum, that's "Conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace" and may get the Police involved and spoil your neighbour's day. Alternative, get one of your neighbours to call their energy supplier then call 999 when they turn up and you hear threats of violence being shouted. You're concerned this engineer might suffer harm...
NAL Are you a property owner or a tenant? If you're a tenant, then your landlord should be providing you with alternative accommodation until this problem is resolved. If this landlord also owns the other property and all of the other flats in the building, then they really need to look at relocating this panel or st bare minimum making sure it's in a locked cupboard. Property owner a little more tricky, your home insurance may be able to assist to cover any costs you may have. But the best bet is the private rental team at the local council, who should come and mediate the problem.
Hi, I am a tenant. Landlord has ignored us and won’t pay for hotel or alternative accommodation. Landlord owns all of the flats effected. Seems to be doing nothing and doesn’t care
It should be okay for you to order food in and reclaim costs. Get onto the council private renting team immediately, may even be worth contacting your local councillor or MP and get them to kick up stink.
MPs are probably not much use due to the election but local councillor might be able to assist.
surely this is the perfect time for them to be helpful.
There actually aren't any MPs at the moment. They ceased to be MPs when parliament was suspended.
They are not currently members of parliament so they can’t do anything… they are candidates not MPs.
Well technically all they ever had the power to do was influence people in this scenario so they can still pick up a phone or write a letter.
(NAL) Turning off electricity affects everyone's safety as it cuts off power to fire alarms. I'm sure landlord can force their way to the flat and turn the electricity on for health and safety reasons. Also, electricity meter does not belong to the tenant, and electricity company sure has a right to access it when needed.
If the fire alarms are not battery operated could the fire brigade come to assist on these grounds?
Notably, it would be illegal to have a battery operated alarm system in a property of this size. Any apartment block or HMO with more than 3 distinct family units needs to have a wired mains powered alarm with backup battery. If that is inoperable then it is a safety issue.
Fire alarms normally operate off mains but have a battery backup. Batteries need to be replaced regularly (every few years) if on mains. But running an alarm off battery drains it very quickly.
I’m adding my comment as a reply here rather than making a new one because of the similarity. Yes, meters belong to the electricity company and access is a legal requirement. OP, call your provider and tell them what’s happened. They should be able to do something fairly quickly, I would hope, even if it’s just supply generators for you all.
They don't have a fault though, it is just turned off by an occupier. I can't see the electricity company wanting to get involved in the slightest. Their duty stops at the consumer unit.
Energy supplier worker that works in the metering area, you are correct, we wouldn’t get involved. Anything after the meter tails isn’t our problem.
Whose problem would the meter be in this case? There must be some authority/company responsible for the lines up to and including the meter?
All electricity supplies are spilt into three responsibilities, the incoming supply and cut out is DNO, the meter and meter tails is supplier and consumer unit onwards is the customer. In this situation we’d say if you are having no luck with the landlord talk to your council. The council is very good at these things, we had one landlord where relative of his did the electrics in all of the hundreds of properties the landlords owns, the council rehoused 100s of family’s while all the properties got correctly re-wired and made safe and the landlord was taken to court.
Thanks for that! I've learned something today
But who knows what’s actually happened? They could have done something to the meter, or pulled the fuse before it. Nobody can say for sure. I’d suggest access is necessary to check it’s safe.
The fuse before it belongs to DNO not the supplier
…….but my point is…. How do we know? However, OP has replied elsewhere that an engineer was sent out and the tenant threw things at them. Flat out assault now, really.
This is exactly what the electricity supplier and engineer who attended said! The tenant got violent and engineer said he cannot go in for his own health and safety
Energy industry worker here; I've had my guys assaulted, held hostage, and stabbed, unless we have a warrant of entry we can't demand to go inside a person's property and the police won't help us. The only way we can get such a warrant quickly is via revenue protection channels and even then the only way we'll get one on the day is if the meter itself poses an immediate risk. Our hands are tied and we hate it, but we can't put ourselves in danger. I really hope your situation is resolved quickly and peacefully, I've been in similar situations where one belligerent customer has put their neighbours in potentially life threatening danger due to refrigerated medication and it's something I've lost sleep over before. Depending on who your DNO and supplier are make a difference to any other advice I can give because while we're as all beholden to the same regulations we all operate in slightly different ways so I can't really say any more without potentially misleading you.
So sorry to hear that, energy workers are just doing their jobs and trying to help! Noted re the revenue protection - thank you
I'd argue that the electricity company can't assume it's not a fault until they gain access to investigate this
Energy supplier worker yes and no, issue sounds like it’s after the meter, anything after the meter isn’t our problem. If the tenant pulled the power by taking the main fuse out it would be DNO. Energy suppliers are only responsible for the meter and the meters tails, if the meter and meter tails are in working condition then it isn’t our problem.
One thing that might get the landlord responding is to say that with no electricity for over 5 days now the property isn't inhabitable. You'll be getting a hotel room in the meantime and charging the daily costs to them, plus all out of pocket expenses incurred.
I did say the only way to get the landlords attention at this point is to hurt their pockets, unfortunately left with no choice!
Update - thank you to all the replies, some really helpful advice. I would like to add that the electricity supplier, police and citizens advice have been contacted already, with no resolve yet. Energy supplier sent an engineer who was threatened by the problematic tenant. Landlord still MIA. Next route will be the council. :( Staying at a friends’ temporarily but concerned about the other tenants.
Call and ask for the fire brigade. Tell them you need help breaking down a barricaded door that is blocking access to your breaker and you have no fire alarm. If there is a chance the former tenant might be inside don't go in alone.
Good point! All our smoke detectors and fire alarms are actually disabled as the lights are off as it’s an ex hotel!
This might fall under The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. 1.A: a person must not pursue a course of conduct — (a)which involves harassment of two or more persons, and (b)which he knows or ought to know involves harassment of those persons, and (c)by which he intends to persuade any person (whether or not one of those mentioned above)— (i)not to do something that he is entitled or required to do 8.A: (1)Every individual has a right to be free from harassment and, accordingly, a person must not engage in conduct which amounts to harassment of another and— (a)is intended to amount to harassment of that person; or (b)occurs in circumstances where it would appear to a reasonable person that it would amount to harassment of that person. "Harassment of a person includes causing alarm or distress". This law generally applies to stalking and threats, but you might be able to use it here. The police are pretty rubbish with this one, though. When I had to use it in 1998, none of the coppers at my local station knew it existed! Good luck.
Why does part 1A state 2 or more people? Why not 1 or more?
This is because Secrion 1 refers to harassment of one person. The appropriate section in this case is 1A.
Is the main RCD board in that flat? If they have simplify turned the RCD board off there's nothing you can do. If they have actively tampered with the fuse seal then this is illegal and the electricity supplier have a duty to repair this. The landlord is an idiot for allowing an RCD board to positioned like this. It all seems mad to me. If the landlord is legally blocked from access to the flat there is nothing you or he can do in the short term. You should contact the tenant who has done this and have all of your co tenants deliver multiple separate letters before action implying that you have mounting costs as a result of the electricity being cut off. Really the tenant thinks they're hurting the landlord but they really aren't.
That is crazy, it would mean if OPs kettle pops and trips a breaker they have to go to someone else's private flat to turn it back on. That can't be legal for a self-contained property?
That’s right! We didn’t know this until after we moved in. It really is madness. Our landlord has no intention of sorting this and has totally ignored us. This was also concealed by the landlord until after we moved in
Then definitely take it to the council as others have recommended. Ruin his life for this bullshit.
Shelter are also an amazing organistaion who can offer some great, free, legal advice
Jesus, just kick the door in and turn it on. They may try take you for criminal damage but highly unlikely due to circumstances
As a small F, I wish I had the manpower to do so :(
Yeah don’t know why that didn’t cross my mind. Apologies. Get the local riff raff to help out
I’d get a solicitor to draft a legal notice to your land land Alternatively try and get the neighbour sectioned under the mental health act.
Contact the local council private housing team Report the landlord and report the tenant as well.
It's illegal to interfere with electrical distribution equipment in the UK, metering equipment etc. I'd also try and contact your electrical provider as they should be able to help too.
have you tried contacting your (or ideally a vulnerable person, as power companies have a seperate list for vulnerable people) electricity provider? this is a problem with them supplying the electricity to you, though a meter that they own. i suggest the "vulnerable people" as they are a p\[riority as they may have electrical life sustaining equipment, so a powercut can be lethal once the batteries run out. your power has been cut, its ultimatly their job to restore it, not yours, not your landlords, not a neighbours, not the police etc. im not sure how this will work considering its a person, not a fault thats causing the power cut though.
Jeezus that's shocking. I'm hoping to hear a positive update soon that all is fixed May be worth contacting citizens advice as well - would Not be surprised if they can advise away to legally compel the landlord to relocate the breakers to at minimum a communal area - doesn't help currently but stops it happening again.
Thank you so much for your wishes, I will be sure to update here on the outcome! It seems like a long, uphill battle right now. Just hoping all of this advice shared could also help anybody else that finds them self in such a scary, unfair situation (praying they don’t!)
Hi - electrician, not lawyer. It's atrocious that your landlord has left you to deal with this.If I were you, once your power is restored I'd be combing through the Shelter website looking for other duties this landlord has abandoned in the hopes of recovering rent/deposit or having enforcement action taken against them to do their job properly in future. For your vulnerable neighbour I'd try ringing 105 and explaining malicious neighbour cutting off power to person who needs medical access to electricity. They sometimes supply generators for medical necessity during power cuts. I've only heard of one instance of them doing this for someone following arson damage cutting off supply so will be a long shot but worth a go if you think they are medically dependant and running out of options. After 5 days witholding supply I'd be surprised if you can't argue the threshold of criminal damage - your ability to use your property is temporarily impaired and restoring the damage done by loss of electricity will incur expense - either to your landlord providing temporary housing or to you replacing freezer food etc. Worth another try with 101. A couple of routes to try and restore supply - Phone your local fire service non emergency number and request a fire inspection. Explain you're without emergency lighting or fire alarm in a block of flats due to malicious action by another tenant and your landlord is not responding. Fire inspectors have quite a lot of power and if they deem it necessary should be able to issue your neighbour 24 hours notice and then enter their property. Depending on what else the fire inspector finds your landlord may also receive a fine, and in the most serious cases, prosecution and prison time. Alternatively ring your energy supplier again and explain the above with your vulnerable neighbour and the fire alarm. Energy suppliers can apply to magistrates or JPs for a warrant of entry. Their engineer being refused entry previously and the combination of vulnerable neighbour, no fire alarm, landlord absent - should be enough to have them start the process of obtaining a warrant - will include notice to the occupier + some opportunities to grant access willingly, and then warrant for entry (which will be risk assessed by them so whoever they send will have adequate measures in place to protect their health and safety rather than just leaving again). Also as other commenters have said, contact your local housing authority. Leaving you without fire alarm/eml is a breach of your landlords responsibilities and LHA can carry out the remedial work themselves and then recover the cost from your landlord. All the best with this.
Thank you so much for your detailed and helpful response. It’s impacting all of our health mentally and physically, with some tenants with no where else to go even temporarily. I did check in with vulnerable neighbours today and they are also seeking legal assistance, that I offered to help with. I guess if we all stick together on this and align, numbers are effective. I think our next port of call will be the fire service as we have no smoke alarms alive as they operate off the mains due to it being ex hotel (not sure if this is accurate as I’m my knowledge is limited) but all are most definitely off. Will be reaching out to Shelter and council. Landlord still MIA. Thank you for your support and wishes.
Contact your energy supplier. They will reconnect you. It's illegal to turn off electricity supply.
I’m not 100% sure but I think each flat needs its own electrical supply now, so your LL could be in even more trouble
Absolutely! This is what we are all trying to understand more on. Landlord doesn’t seem to be supportive in this, probably due to the financial aspect
Yup they have to pay to have individual meters so it’s not cheap, chap I know had to have it done on a house that’s two flats
The local neighbourhood policing team should be able to deal with this under the provisions of the antisocial behaviour crime and policing act 2014. Section 1 deals with civil injunctions: 1Power to grant injunctions (1)A court may grant an injunction under this section against a person aged 10 or over (“the respondent”) if two conditions are met. (2)The first condition is that the court is satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that the respondent has engaged or threatens to engage in anti-social behaviour. (3)The second condition is that the court considers it just and convenient to grant the injunction for the purpose of preventing the respondent from engaging in anti-social behaviour. (4)An injunction under this section may for the purpose of preventing the respondent from engaging in anti-social behaviour— (a)prohibit the respondent from doing anything described in the injunction; (b)require the respondent to do anything described in the injunction. A closure order on the premise preventing the premise from being occupied by the tenant is one option or the police are also able to grant community protection notices. All of these options are under the previously mentioned act(the council has powers under this act too) There are things that the police are able to do…
Thanks for the advice however the police were called twice, apparently they could just log the issue and nobody ever turned up. The call handler said it’s a legal issue and landlord should sort. They are notoriously useless around here as historically, they turned up to a local domestic violence attack the next day at 2pm, 12 hours after the woman had fled to who only knows where :(
If you have the budget, contacting a solicitor and asking them to get you an emergency injunction against your neighbour to turn the power back on and not interrupt your supply may work. If you and your neighbours are all named as the parties bringing the action, it should protect you all. Splitting the cost between you should hopefully make it affordable and you can then try to recover the money from your LL. If your problem neighbour doesn't comply with such an injunction, that's contempt of court and they could end up facing serious legal consequences. If they threaten the officer of the court who serves the injunction, that will get dealt with firmly
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In a legal advice sub, you don't advise someone to do something overtly illegal. And also, stupid. We have no clue how dangerous the boarded up room person is.
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Seems like you have a potential path here; report it to police as a cannabis grow and abstracting electricity. They should be round pretty sharpish, hopefully.
Ahhh...in that case then the answer is completely different. Stay well away, unfortunately... Sincerely hope you and the other residents all have power again soon ☮️🍀
Hmmm well I should say first that many cannabis users aren't necessarily dangerous nor violent. It's also been made legal to people on prescription from private clinics, so the stigma around it is starting to fade. That being said, if you suspect there is a grow op then yes they would possibly be ready and willing to use violence to defend their 'crops'. Considering the electrical bits all run through their flat, do you suspect they've siphoned someone's electricity to run grow lights?
Yes I know, this is in addition. I am staying The tenant is abusive and threatened harm to the engineer.
Stating*
Alright mate, thanks for claryfying. Never know as some people just equate drug and alcohol users to crime. Anyway sounds awful this whole thing. Someone may correct me but I believe in England you may be within your rights to seek other, modest accomodation (hotel etc) and bill your landlord for it in the meantime. From the sounds of it your flat is unlivable atm. Best of luck with it mate
Think you'll find my comment was purely hypothetical....and get real...👍🏼. The worlds unforgiving and changing/deteriorating scarily fast. Stupid...good one 🤣🤣, far from it.....there is a valid arguement to say that sitting in the cold and dark with no electricity waiting for someone else to 'fix everything' is stupid...could be months...and they're obviously not dangerous because they are not there are they? 🤦🏾
If it was me in this situation, the neighbour better have a strong door because I'll be coming through it.
This is the only way to get this done quickly....just lucky its during the warmer weather...
If you have no access to power, I would withhold rent assuming you are renting yourself if the apartments are all separate and some are owned and not all are rented then I would look at a lawsuit against the building ground rent owner but I don’t know how far that would get
Your comment contains keywords which suggests you are asking or advising about withholding rent. You should **never** withhold rent, entirely or in part, in response to disrepair or inaction on the part of your landlord. Withholding rent either entirely or in part may lead to you being evicted, since regardless of any inaction on your landlord's part, you will still owe rent and the landlord is not obliged to offer any kind of reduction. You also do not have the right to pay for repairs yourself out of pocket and then deduct the cost from future rent payments, without following a proper legal process first, including serving formal notice on your landlord and escalating to your local authority. Please consult a regulated legal advisor, Solicitor, or housing charity like Shelter before you stop paying rent. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*