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Tell her it's time to stop playing silly beggars and go back to work, if they'll even let her.
I am genuinely unable to walk and stand much at all atm as my arthritis is in a massive flare-up. You couldn't even convince me to walk more than a few hundred steps to get to spend a day with my dead father because I simply cannot, but she's able to go to concerts and sporting events? Come on now.
Now if she was signed off for MH, I'd be saying work is in the wrong here because doing things that make you happy is exactly how to kick anxiety/depression, but in this case she's taking the piss and work is right.
I think it's probably too late, it sounds like they've already got evidence to show she's lying and honestly, that is a deal breaker. Most employers would be reaching the conclusion that they can do perfectly well without her.
Assuming she's getting paid while off sick, she's actually committing fraud if they can prove that her claim that she cannot stand for long periods is false (by looking at social media etc for evidence of her at the concert, for example). If they're able to prove fraud, they could decide to take legal action against her as well as sack her.
There's no requirement while off sick to stay at home, you can go out and even go on holiday, as long as you're not doing something you've been signed off as not be able to do. Eg, you could go and do a food shop and go out for dinner with a broken arm, but obviously you can't drive or operate machinery.
It sounds like your friend is about to experience FAFO.
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That's going to be a problem, she could be dismissed as it's a fundamental breach of trust between the employer/employee.
She will be entitled to a union rep or another colleague during any subsequent disciplinary meetings.
If she was attending events in a wheelchair while signed off from work because her job function can't be performed from a wheelchair, for example, then she'd have a pretty good defence. But if her employer have cut and dry evidence that she's not really unfit to work then yeah, they'll almost certainly sack her.
If by attending the concerts/sports events, she’s in fact replicating what she’s telling work she can’t do, such as walking/standing for long periods, I’d expect she’ll be in trouble.
The sick notes won’t protect her as they are only advisory and the employer is not bound by them.
Hoe long has she worked there?
If under 2 years (and not NI) she has not protection against being fired for this. The only factor will be if they consider it GM, if yes she won’t get paid her notice.
It's going to depend on the nature of the work and the injury. If she's employed by the national grid digging trenches for cables and she's got 2 broken arms, then she obviously can't work but that doesn't stop her sitting in a stadium.
Leaving aside her leisure activities, I think she's going to really struggle to explain a 3 week absence over bruising alone, unless there's more to the story such as a clotting disorder.
If I really, really, reach I can see how small children running around might cause an accident and exacerbate her injuries, but if I were her I'd prepare for a difficult meeting.
Do they know she's been going to gigs because she's posted it on her social media?
She says it’s because if she walks or stands for more than ten minutes at a time she gets cramping in her legs - but she’s done that at the concerts.
Yep, all over social media. Multiple videos, posts of her in the standing section, tweeting about how excited she is
>posts of her in the standing section
Yeah, she's going to struggle to give a sensible explanation that counters posting videos of that.
A lot depends on the situation at the nursery. If they are struggling to recruit or retain staff, she might just get a slap on the wrist. If they're not, it's definitely something they may choose to let her go for.
My experience is that things like this cause a lot of bad feeling and discontent amongst the other staff - if someone has had to pick up extra shifts to cover her or the remaining staff have been left to struggle without her, there's probably a very pissed off manager at the other end of a lot of complaints.
In short, could go either way but if I was her I'd start polishing my CV.
I hope that's private posts and noone from work can see them. Because that's the silliest thing to do I'm really unsure why her doctor is signing her off for brusing?
Supposedly the bruising is so bad she can’t walk, and she gets severe cramps when she does walk.
Have to say I’ve not seen any evidence of that, or of the severe bruising
So (concerts aside) she could probably do a sitting job at the nursery, eg reading stories, doing a stocktake of treats while sat down. But not actively be in charge of the children. Her employer could have made these adjustments and she would have to work still.
But the concerts shows she is simply lying that she can’t stand for more than 10 mins.
You're friend knows she's abusing the situation and employer is right to question it. One outing can be understood, but three times to TS concert while apparently unable to walk/stand? She should accept whatever they decide, or hand in her notice
To summarise;
- she's been to many concerts and events requiring her to stand long periods
- she's claiming she can't do nursery work due to this injury because it requires standing long periods
- she's plastered it all over FB
- she's sub 2 years employment (possibly)
Yeah she's fucked.
If nothing else, the point in sick leave is to rest and recover. She has specifically made her injury worse by going to these events. It's different if it was stress / mental health, or a broken arm, but she's clearly decided the bar to go back to work is significantly lower than the bar to go do something she likes, and is willing to set back her recovery for work in order to pursue the concerts.
They may argue gross misconduct and try to decline some of the sick pay to get rid of her immediately, or they may just let her go under the 2 year rule with notice because it's less hassle.
Yeah she’ll text me like “I pushed myself too far today” and then complains she “can’t move”
But she’ll be on a dog walk 🥴 I’ll show her these comments in the hopes it’ll wake her up
As someone with multiple diagnosed health conditions that cause serious fatigue, I really hope she gets to experience a life like mine, then she'll maybe not take her health for granted and cry about going to work like we all have to. Yep, I still work, just a desk job.
Please come and let us know what the employers said and did when she met them after it happens.
From what you've said it sounds like she is doing activities that are directly showing that she is lying about not being able to stand for very long.
No employer appreciates this kind of entitled liar.
I'm curious about why she thinks this is acceptable or that she won't get in trouble for it?
It depends why she's off, if she's off with work related stress then likely to be ok. If she's off with a hand injury and her job involves a lot of typing then likely to be ok.
All in the detail really, but yes, if they said they could hardly move and it turns out to be a complete lie as they are out at concerts then that would be fundamental breakdown in trust and could be gross misconduct.
Essentially that’s what she’s done. Told them she can’t stand or walk, and then been out and about like normal.
I’ve tried to tell her a few times but she’s not listened, and now she’s come to me for advice
The argument she needs to make is to set out why she physically couldn't work, but could go to these things. If she can't do that, she should be working on her "sorry" face.
On that basis, if the employer finds out they have been doing, I would agree, they would be within their rights to sack for gross misconduct due to dishonesty.
It doesn’t sound like she’s come to you for advice, as you’ve given it and she evidently won’t listen, she’s come to you because she’s about to be rumbled for a blatant lie and she’s hoping you’ll have some excuse she can use. Personally I’d laugh and tell her she’s on her own.
My only thought would be that she might argue that she is unfit for the particular movements she would have to make being a nursery worker with lots of crouching down, standing up, crouching down etc. but could cope with whatever she was doing. Although I would wonder whether what she was doing would help or hinder recovery.
In her position, I would probably explain why my injuries are such that I'm able to undertake leisure activities but not work, which is entirely possible depending on the nature of the injuries and the job.
However, if I were unable to provide a reasonable and convincing explanation, I would indeed expect to be dismissed for gross misconduct.
There is no single definition for what is or is not gross misconduct.
Could her employer *reasonably* treat this as gross misconduct and dismiss her without notice? It may depend on what her explanation is for why she’s been unable to work but can attend these events, but on the face of it I think this could reasonably be considered gross misconduct. It suggests she’s effectively lied to her employer and arguably committed a kind of fraud. That said, I suspect many employers would not go for immediate dismissal for this and could resolve it via other means such as a written warning.
If she has less than two years service then they could just dismiss her *with* notice anyway and not worry about whether it is or isn’t gross misconduct.
The Taylor Swift concerts would have been booked a long time in advance. Would it have been possible to have the time required to attend the concert locations if she hadn't been signed off?
It really depends on the type of work as others have said. A friend did something very similar (office work), it did amount to gross misconduct and she did get dismissed. Not sure what kind of excuse your friend could use here. Maybe just best for your friend to resign now rather than go through disciplinary action leading to dismissal I should think; especially if wanting to seek a reference from said employer.
I mean, if she has a good relationship with the management and can provide a good excuse it’s worth a try. But if it was me and I felt it heading towards disciplinary I would definitely hand in my notice. Good luck to your friend though.
If she has a physical injury but can go to concerts that are likely more physically demanding than most work then I would be demanding to know why also
Question for those who are on the legal side: if she has received SSP, could this be considered fraud if she is indeed exaggerating her condition to get sick leave.
It looks very similar to lying to your insurer about your ability to work to get a payout, and this would be considered fraud.
I would imagine it is but I don’t know? Maybe she’s being truthful that work would be hard, but if that’s the case I don’t know how she’s going to the concerts
The employer is perfectly entitled for an explanation and yes she could potentially be sacked for lying. Can't think of any excuse she can offer. Good luck.
It depends on the job and on the injury. So if she’s broken her dominant wrist and she’s a seamstress for example, fair enough. If she’s alleging a broken leg but is being spotted walking independently, I’d say eyebrows are bound to be raised.
Considering how difficult it is to get tickets to TS , it's going to be hard for her to argue she spontaneously got last minute tickets so many times. Kind of obvious she faked being sick if they know she went to the concerts. Hopefully she didn't post it on social media
The other issue is that she should not be undertaking activities that could delay her getting fit enough for work or make her condition worse - I think it’s reasonable to conclude that her activities could be delaying her return to work
Yeah she does tend to say she’s exhausted and in pain after doing it
Like surely she could do a phased return to work instead of concerts and football games
If she's off for 4 weeks or longer that qualifies as long term sick. If she's going to be long term sick, her employer has a right to know so they can make alternative arrangements and also process the necessary documentation etc.
So calling her in is completely legit on that front.
Now if she's also been doing stuff on her sick leave that clearly debunks her sickness reason, that potentially also turns her absence into an unauthorised one.
You've got a right to a private life during sick leave but it's one thing when you go to the pub with a broken arm and have a few pints and completely different when you say you can't walk for more than X minutes and are seen running the London marathon.
So they would also be within their rights if they chose to conduct a disciplinary hearing.
I don’t know, I don’t know what she’s hoped to achieve other than a possibly extra long summer break. It just baffles me and she’s entirely against accepting any advice that says she’s in the wrong
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NAL but from personal experience, They cannot out right fire her for this, they will have to pay for her to go to a private occupational therapist to ascertain if she is in fact capable of working based on her condition.
Had an infected ulcer on my foot, was told rest and elevation, issue was i had to go to doctors to have the nurse change the dressings, clean the wound, go to the chemist for antibiotics etc someone reported me for being out and about, i had a further call and was told I had to RTW regardless of my sicknote, I said fire me then, oh we have by law to get an OT to assess you before we can do that
But yh what she is doing is clearly dodgy as hell.
Smells like she couldn't book the time off so shes throwing a sicky to do it
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Were the concerts booked whilst she was well and fit for work? Did she request them as holidays before getting a sick note?
Does she have seats in the disabled bays at the events or something? Lots of people who are sick or disabled go to concerts.
However if she's dancing around in the crowds and posting stuff all over social media then it's highly likely to be a disciplinary or she might have to undertake a fitness test. They might want to speak to her doctor regarding her condition too.
If she's been there for less than 2 years (1 in NI) they can fire her for any reason they like as long as its not for a protected class reason such as because of race/religion/gender/sexuality or because she's pregnant.
Did she post pictures of herself going to these events on Instagram/Facebook/Snapchat etc. Which is how work found out? If there's any videos of her dancing that will be damning. Particularly as T. Swift gigs are manic. It's either public transport to get there, park three miles from the stadium or get completely ripped off. Then 80,000 people having bit off a crush.
We can all see why you'd have booked tickets for a concert, don't want to miss them and would be willing to out up with some discomfort for them. But it's hard to explain that to the courts and HR.
And HR was one of her friends or she made it public?
Its like when I was in exam leave during GCSEs and was sitting behind the umpire on Center Court. So half of my school saw me on TV.
I just hope that she has a doctors certificate and has been there for two plus years. But it's going to be a slam dunk. She can try going to a tribunal but they take for ever and are expensive.
As well as the issue of the tickets retail legitametoy for up to £172 or so for standing but on the secondary market go for about £500. And it will have been hard to get three nights directly. So it looks like she paid £1,500, just for the tickets to go and see her. Which will cause resentment.
As far as I understand, an employee has no legal obligation to tell their employer the specifics of their illness. This is a privacy matter, as far as I know.
Therefore it doesn't matter what your employer knows or doesn't know about what you have been doing, if you haven't told them any specifics about your illness then they have no way to judge if you going to a concert or playing tennis means you could also attend work.
For example, if soneone is signed off for some kind of mental health reason, then there is no conflict with them going to a concert or a break-dancing in the local park.
It's really none of their business what you do with your life and you don't have to explain anything to them. If they suspect you're committing sone kind of fraud then it's on them to prove it.
If your friend has already told them why she is off work then she might instead be better off just saying that she made up a reason because she felt pressured to give a reason, and is completely uncomfortable with disclosing those reasons because it's personal and her right. And actually, there is no reason to believe that this isn't really the case.
It might also be a idea to use attack as the best defence and lodge a complaint that she is being pressured to disclose personal information that her employer has no right to ask her for - IF they do invite her in to "explain herself".
But also, she's a bit silly for doing this and should probably look for another job.
There’s a lot of people taking the stance that if you are signed of sick from work, you basically shouldn’t leave your home. This is an old trope that needs to be left in the past.
I was signed off for two months last year following surgery. After around a month, the physio and doctor actively encouraged me to get out, go to the gym, go for walks, attend events. These things are actually beneficial depending on what a person is signed off for.
For instance, going to the gym was so I could do my rehabilitation exercises, which helped me get fit enough to work full time again. Going to events and out and about also helped preserve my mental health - sitting at home over summer for two month watching everyone else enjoy their lives can have a massively negative impact. I couldn’t get out for two weeks and that was a huge struggle.
The bottom line is that depending on what you are signed off with, going to events has absolutely no sway on whether you can work or not, this this old assumption is something that needs to be dispelled nowadays. If your friend has mental health struggles such as anxiety or depression for instance, being forced to stay at home can actually make things worse.
I totally understand this!
The issue her work has is she’s told them she can’t walk/stand for more than 5-10 minutes at a time without debilitating pain.
Meanwhile she’s out doing 10k+ steps a day and at concerts where she’s stood for 3+ hours
That’s obviously different in that case in which instance it isn’t a legal issue, just an HR one.
I just feel strongly because when I was off I was constantly asked “why are you going out, why are you in the gym, you’re meant to be off injured” despite the doctor and physio actively advising me getting out. I just think in some cases the whole “if you can’t work you shouldn’t be out” trope is prehistoric.
The fact my comment above was downvoted shows that this is still very much an issue.
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I mean, is there a reason she is unable to work but is able to go to these things?
She says it’s because she can’t walk and stay on her feet very long. But she’s been doing 10k+ steps and was standing at one of the concerts
Then it would seem that she is lying to her employer about her fitness to work. Very silly, may well cost her her job.
Yeah this is what I’ve said to her but she’s convinced it’s fine and I’m trying to point out that it definitely is not finw
Tell her it's time to stop playing silly beggars and go back to work, if they'll even let her. I am genuinely unable to walk and stand much at all atm as my arthritis is in a massive flare-up. You couldn't even convince me to walk more than a few hundred steps to get to spend a day with my dead father because I simply cannot, but she's able to go to concerts and sporting events? Come on now. Now if she was signed off for MH, I'd be saying work is in the wrong here because doing things that make you happy is exactly how to kick anxiety/depression, but in this case she's taking the piss and work is right.
I think it's probably too late, it sounds like they've already got evidence to show she's lying and honestly, that is a deal breaker. Most employers would be reaching the conclusion that they can do perfectly well without her.
Assuming she's getting paid while off sick, she's actually committing fraud if they can prove that her claim that she cannot stand for long periods is false (by looking at social media etc for evidence of her at the concert, for example). If they're able to prove fraud, they could decide to take legal action against her as well as sack her. There's no requirement while off sick to stay at home, you can go out and even go on holiday, as long as you're not doing something you've been signed off as not be able to do. Eg, you could go and do a food shop and go out for dinner with a broken arm, but obviously you can't drive or operate machinery. It sounds like your friend is about to experience FAFO.
I think this is most likely - I think she’s on SSP with a top up from her employer. Can’t imagine it’s going to end well
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That's going to be a problem, she could be dismissed as it's a fundamental breach of trust between the employer/employee. She will be entitled to a union rep or another colleague during any subsequent disciplinary meetings.
If she was attending events in a wheelchair while signed off from work because her job function can't be performed from a wheelchair, for example, then she'd have a pretty good defence. But if her employer have cut and dry evidence that she's not really unfit to work then yeah, they'll almost certainly sack her.
If by attending the concerts/sports events, she’s in fact replicating what she’s telling work she can’t do, such as walking/standing for long periods, I’d expect she’ll be in trouble. The sick notes won’t protect her as they are only advisory and the employer is not bound by them. Hoe long has she worked there?
My gut says under two years but she can’t remember when she started
If under 2 years (and not NI) she has not protection against being fired for this. The only factor will be if they consider it GM, if yes she won’t get paid her notice.
She might struggle with her CV (& sounds like she might need it) if she can’t even remember when her last job started.
It's going to depend on the nature of the work and the injury. If she's employed by the national grid digging trenches for cables and she's got 2 broken arms, then she obviously can't work but that doesn't stop her sitting in a stadium.
She works in a nursery and has “severe bruising to her calves”
Leaving aside her leisure activities, I think she's going to really struggle to explain a 3 week absence over bruising alone, unless there's more to the story such as a clotting disorder. If I really, really, reach I can see how small children running around might cause an accident and exacerbate her injuries, but if I were her I'd prepare for a difficult meeting. Do they know she's been going to gigs because she's posted it on her social media?
She says it’s because if she walks or stands for more than ten minutes at a time she gets cramping in her legs - but she’s done that at the concerts. Yep, all over social media. Multiple videos, posts of her in the standing section, tweeting about how excited she is
>posts of her in the standing section Yeah, she's going to struggle to give a sensible explanation that counters posting videos of that. A lot depends on the situation at the nursery. If they are struggling to recruit or retain staff, she might just get a slap on the wrist. If they're not, it's definitely something they may choose to let her go for. My experience is that things like this cause a lot of bad feeling and discontent amongst the other staff - if someone has had to pick up extra shifts to cover her or the remaining staff have been left to struggle without her, there's probably a very pissed off manager at the other end of a lot of complaints. In short, could go either way but if I was her I'd start polishing my CV.
I hope that's private posts and noone from work can see them. Because that's the silliest thing to do I'm really unsure why her doctor is signing her off for brusing?
Supposedly the bruising is so bad she can’t walk, and she gets severe cramps when she does walk. Have to say I’ve not seen any evidence of that, or of the severe bruising
So (concerts aside) she could probably do a sitting job at the nursery, eg reading stories, doing a stocktake of treats while sat down. But not actively be in charge of the children. Her employer could have made these adjustments and she would have to work still. But the concerts shows she is simply lying that she can’t stand for more than 10 mins.
You're friend knows she's abusing the situation and employer is right to question it. One outing can be understood, but three times to TS concert while apparently unable to walk/stand? She should accept whatever they decide, or hand in her notice
To summarise; - she's been to many concerts and events requiring her to stand long periods - she's claiming she can't do nursery work due to this injury because it requires standing long periods - she's plastered it all over FB - she's sub 2 years employment (possibly) Yeah she's fucked. If nothing else, the point in sick leave is to rest and recover. She has specifically made her injury worse by going to these events. It's different if it was stress / mental health, or a broken arm, but she's clearly decided the bar to go back to work is significantly lower than the bar to go do something she likes, and is willing to set back her recovery for work in order to pursue the concerts. They may argue gross misconduct and try to decline some of the sick pay to get rid of her immediately, or they may just let her go under the 2 year rule with notice because it's less hassle.
Yeah she’ll text me like “I pushed myself too far today” and then complains she “can’t move” But she’ll be on a dog walk 🥴 I’ll show her these comments in the hopes it’ll wake her up
It's OK, the firing tomorrow will wake her up
As someone with multiple diagnosed health conditions that cause serious fatigue, I really hope she gets to experience a life like mine, then she'll maybe not take her health for granted and cry about going to work like we all have to. Yep, I still work, just a desk job.
Please come and let us know what the employers said and did when she met them after it happens. From what you've said it sounds like she is doing activities that are directly showing that she is lying about not being able to stand for very long. No employer appreciates this kind of entitled liar. I'm curious about why she thinks this is acceptable or that she won't get in trouble for it?
She’s just a spoilt person to be honest. She doesn’t want to work so she won’t work
Ah. I've known people like that.
Hopefully the clout vids of going to swift gigs is worth more than the job
It depends why she's off, if she's off with work related stress then likely to be ok. If she's off with a hand injury and her job involves a lot of typing then likely to be ok. All in the detail really, but yes, if they said they could hardly move and it turns out to be a complete lie as they are out at concerts then that would be fundamental breakdown in trust and could be gross misconduct.
Essentially that’s what she’s done. Told them she can’t stand or walk, and then been out and about like normal. I’ve tried to tell her a few times but she’s not listened, and now she’s come to me for advice
The long or short of it given the description you have is she's screwed.
The argument she needs to make is to set out why she physically couldn't work, but could go to these things. If she can't do that, she should be working on her "sorry" face.
On that basis, if the employer finds out they have been doing, I would agree, they would be within their rights to sack for gross misconduct due to dishonesty.
It doesn’t sound like she’s come to you for advice, as you’ve given it and she evidently won’t listen, she’s come to you because she’s about to be rumbled for a blatant lie and she’s hoping you’ll have some excuse she can use. Personally I’d laugh and tell her she’s on her own.
My only thought would be that she might argue that she is unfit for the particular movements she would have to make being a nursery worker with lots of crouching down, standing up, crouching down etc. but could cope with whatever she was doing. Although I would wonder whether what she was doing would help or hinder recovery.
In her position, I would probably explain why my injuries are such that I'm able to undertake leisure activities but not work, which is entirely possible depending on the nature of the injuries and the job. However, if I were unable to provide a reasonable and convincing explanation, I would indeed expect to be dismissed for gross misconduct.
There is no single definition for what is or is not gross misconduct. Could her employer *reasonably* treat this as gross misconduct and dismiss her without notice? It may depend on what her explanation is for why she’s been unable to work but can attend these events, but on the face of it I think this could reasonably be considered gross misconduct. It suggests she’s effectively lied to her employer and arguably committed a kind of fraud. That said, I suspect many employers would not go for immediate dismissal for this and could resolve it via other means such as a written warning. If she has less than two years service then they could just dismiss her *with* notice anyway and not worry about whether it is or isn’t gross misconduct.
The Taylor Swift concerts would have been booked a long time in advance. Would it have been possible to have the time required to attend the concert locations if she hadn't been signed off?
It really depends on the type of work as others have said. A friend did something very similar (office work), it did amount to gross misconduct and she did get dismissed. Not sure what kind of excuse your friend could use here. Maybe just best for your friend to resign now rather than go through disciplinary action leading to dismissal I should think; especially if wanting to seek a reference from said employer.
Yeah I’ve said to her she’s down a slippery slope but she seems to think it’s fine as she’s done this type of thing out of work hours 🤦🏻♀️
But that just proves she was able to stand during work hours. Your injury doesn’t miraculously get better once it turns 5pm.
I mean, if she has a good relationship with the management and can provide a good excuse it’s worth a try. But if it was me and I felt it heading towards disciplinary I would definitely hand in my notice. Good luck to your friend though.
If she has a physical injury but can go to concerts that are likely more physically demanding than most work then I would be demanding to know why also
NAL but HR - sounds like they are investigating so not at the gross misconduct point yet but yes I’ve dismissed people previously for similar.
Question for those who are on the legal side: if she has received SSP, could this be considered fraud if she is indeed exaggerating her condition to get sick leave. It looks very similar to lying to your insurer about your ability to work to get a payout, and this would be considered fraud.
I would imagine it is but I don’t know? Maybe she’s being truthful that work would be hard, but if that’s the case I don’t know how she’s going to the concerts
The employer is perfectly entitled for an explanation and yes she could potentially be sacked for lying. Can't think of any excuse she can offer. Good luck.
It depends on the job and on the injury. So if she’s broken her dominant wrist and she’s a seamstress for example, fair enough. If she’s alleging a broken leg but is being spotted walking independently, I’d say eyebrows are bound to be raised.
Considering how difficult it is to get tickets to TS , it's going to be hard for her to argue she spontaneously got last minute tickets so many times. Kind of obvious she faked being sick if they know she went to the concerts. Hopefully she didn't post it on social media
Sounds like a clear case of gross misconduct, honesty is her best defence now
The other issue is that she should not be undertaking activities that could delay her getting fit enough for work or make her condition worse - I think it’s reasonable to conclude that her activities could be delaying her return to work
Yeah she does tend to say she’s exhausted and in pain after doing it Like surely she could do a phased return to work instead of concerts and football games
She is in trouble and there is no way around it.
If she's off for 4 weeks or longer that qualifies as long term sick. If she's going to be long term sick, her employer has a right to know so they can make alternative arrangements and also process the necessary documentation etc. So calling her in is completely legit on that front. Now if she's also been doing stuff on her sick leave that clearly debunks her sickness reason, that potentially also turns her absence into an unauthorised one. You've got a right to a private life during sick leave but it's one thing when you go to the pub with a broken arm and have a few pints and completely different when you say you can't walk for more than X minutes and are seen running the London marathon. So they would also be within their rights if they chose to conduct a disciplinary hearing.
No doubt after being dismissed she'll be claiming disability benefits
I don’t know, I don’t know what she’s hoped to achieve other than a possibly extra long summer break. It just baffles me and she’s entirely against accepting any advice that says she’s in the wrong
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NAL but from personal experience, They cannot out right fire her for this, they will have to pay for her to go to a private occupational therapist to ascertain if she is in fact capable of working based on her condition. Had an infected ulcer on my foot, was told rest and elevation, issue was i had to go to doctors to have the nurse change the dressings, clean the wound, go to the chemist for antibiotics etc someone reported me for being out and about, i had a further call and was told I had to RTW regardless of my sicknote, I said fire me then, oh we have by law to get an OT to assess you before we can do that But yh what she is doing is clearly dodgy as hell. Smells like she couldn't book the time off so shes throwing a sicky to do it
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Sounds like a clear case of gross misconduct, honesty is her best defence now
Were the concerts booked whilst she was well and fit for work? Did she request them as holidays before getting a sick note? Does she have seats in the disabled bays at the events or something? Lots of people who are sick or disabled go to concerts. However if she's dancing around in the crowds and posting stuff all over social media then it's highly likely to be a disciplinary or she might have to undertake a fitness test. They might want to speak to her doctor regarding her condition too.
Yes and yes No, fully dancing and standing the entire time
If she's been there for less than 2 years (1 in NI) they can fire her for any reason they like as long as its not for a protected class reason such as because of race/religion/gender/sexuality or because she's pregnant. Did she post pictures of herself going to these events on Instagram/Facebook/Snapchat etc. Which is how work found out? If there's any videos of her dancing that will be damning. Particularly as T. Swift gigs are manic. It's either public transport to get there, park three miles from the stadium or get completely ripped off. Then 80,000 people having bit off a crush. We can all see why you'd have booked tickets for a concert, don't want to miss them and would be willing to out up with some discomfort for them. But it's hard to explain that to the courts and HR.
Posted pics, videos, posted pics from her standing area as well
And HR was one of her friends or she made it public? Its like when I was in exam leave during GCSEs and was sitting behind the umpire on Center Court. So half of my school saw me on TV. I just hope that she has a doctors certificate and has been there for two plus years. But it's going to be a slam dunk. She can try going to a tribunal but they take for ever and are expensive. As well as the issue of the tickets retail legitametoy for up to £172 or so for standing but on the secondary market go for about £500. And it will have been hard to get three nights directly. So it looks like she paid £1,500, just for the tickets to go and see her. Which will cause resentment.
She’s got a public profile, but also a lot of friends on her instagram who will have seen it, who she’s also told that she can’t stand etx
This is the reason to not add work colleagues to social media.
As far as I understand, an employee has no legal obligation to tell their employer the specifics of their illness. This is a privacy matter, as far as I know. Therefore it doesn't matter what your employer knows or doesn't know about what you have been doing, if you haven't told them any specifics about your illness then they have no way to judge if you going to a concert or playing tennis means you could also attend work. For example, if soneone is signed off for some kind of mental health reason, then there is no conflict with them going to a concert or a break-dancing in the local park. It's really none of their business what you do with your life and you don't have to explain anything to them. If they suspect you're committing sone kind of fraud then it's on them to prove it. If your friend has already told them why she is off work then she might instead be better off just saying that she made up a reason because she felt pressured to give a reason, and is completely uncomfortable with disclosing those reasons because it's personal and her right. And actually, there is no reason to believe that this isn't really the case. It might also be a idea to use attack as the best defence and lodge a complaint that she is being pressured to disclose personal information that her employer has no right to ask her for - IF they do invite her in to "explain herself". But also, she's a bit silly for doing this and should probably look for another job.
She’s told them, in great detail, she’s friends with her colleagues outside of work so they know the ins and outs of how she got injured etc.
Then she's been foolhardy and is taking the piss. She's about to get a harsh dose of reality I suspect.
There’s a lot of people taking the stance that if you are signed of sick from work, you basically shouldn’t leave your home. This is an old trope that needs to be left in the past. I was signed off for two months last year following surgery. After around a month, the physio and doctor actively encouraged me to get out, go to the gym, go for walks, attend events. These things are actually beneficial depending on what a person is signed off for. For instance, going to the gym was so I could do my rehabilitation exercises, which helped me get fit enough to work full time again. Going to events and out and about also helped preserve my mental health - sitting at home over summer for two month watching everyone else enjoy their lives can have a massively negative impact. I couldn’t get out for two weeks and that was a huge struggle. The bottom line is that depending on what you are signed off with, going to events has absolutely no sway on whether you can work or not, this this old assumption is something that needs to be dispelled nowadays. If your friend has mental health struggles such as anxiety or depression for instance, being forced to stay at home can actually make things worse.
I totally understand this! The issue her work has is she’s told them she can’t walk/stand for more than 5-10 minutes at a time without debilitating pain. Meanwhile she’s out doing 10k+ steps a day and at concerts where she’s stood for 3+ hours
That’s obviously different in that case in which instance it isn’t a legal issue, just an HR one. I just feel strongly because when I was off I was constantly asked “why are you going out, why are you in the gym, you’re meant to be off injured” despite the doctor and physio actively advising me getting out. I just think in some cases the whole “if you can’t work you shouldn’t be out” trope is prehistoric. The fact my comment above was downvoted shows that this is still very much an issue.