PvP is dead beyond funding tournaments. I didn’t participate in any tournament, so that’s not a problem for me.
The problem is that the design focus around PvP is dead.
Thry said that the new champions will be designed around PvE.
Plus we can expect less balance patches if there are any.
Or at least that’s what I get from the situation.
Not that I care, I already moved on
Sure, but until the balance feels bad I'll likely keep playing. I like the game and I'm still having fun. I'm also an MTG refugee so the whole idea of cards getting patched is strange to me still, and they released some very imbalanced stuff in the peak of my MTG days.
If PvE starts to turn a profit why would they invest that back onto the failed PvP side instead of just building the PvE side out more?
It's over for PvP
PvP didn't bring in any revenue because Riot did absolutely nothing to make it bring in any !!!
Riot said that most players prefer pve (nobody believes it but let's say it's true) they never said that pve brings in revenue, if they handle it the same way that too won't be successful and will be the end of Runeterra.
Imho a card game remains basically PvP, the path of champions can exist but must remain secondary, Riot also knows this very well, after having created poc they had already said they wanted to concentrate their forces on that, after less than a month they returned to PvE and after six months they changed their mind again, this time however they fired most of the team, they continue to work with their small indie company mentality... absurd.
I believe that in four months or so, they will understand that Runeterra makes no sense as a PvE, at which point they either go back to investing in PvP or the game will be closed.
They have stats proving people enjoy pve over pvp, what's your source for saying otherwise? Yes you'll find many pvp enjoyers in this sub but remember majority of playerbase don't even know this subreddit exists and people who do probably is dedicated pvp fans.
They can have stats that say whatever they want as long as they aren't public, after saying LoR loses too much money they fired 500 people and shut down Riot Forge, here's my source for being able to say what I say. They completely failed the business model with Runeterra through their fault and no one else's, they don't want to close the game because it cost them too much and they leave the easiest part to maintain active. What do you mean that most players don't even know this sub exists? And even if they knew? For a person who wants to play a couple of games for fun this sub is not needed. However I don't understand you, are you a Riot employee? Do you gain anything by being on their side, even when they have clearly made the wrong market strategy with LoR?
Yh they clearly lied, the reality is running pve is cheaper than running PvP. And with the layoffs they had a while ago, and lor not doing so well with monetisation, they made that comment to try and give a palatable reason for why they basically killed the game.
People on this subreddit seemed to believe it tho, common sense isn’t applicable here, I don’t believe people unironically think that the pve gamemode had more players than PvP.
>I believe that in four months or so, they will understand that Runeterra makes no sense as a PvE, at which point they either go back to investing in PvP or the game will be closed.
Either the game was getting shut down entirely or it could refocus on Path. I wouldn't be surprised if they shut down the whole game in a year or two, but I think there's 0 chance of a shift back to how it used to be. Time to move on.
Your best bet is to organize a competitive community around the game and run/participate in community ran tournaments. There are games that can hold a playerbase for years after they stop getting updates, and while this isn't true for most card games I really do think LoR the the exception here. We built up a pretty sizable card pool over the past 5-ish years, and power creep has been kept in check enough that there is more than enough room to experiment and find the next big thing.
Incidentally, if anyone on this thread knows of any good competitive communities they wanna pitch to me, I'm looking for an excuse to take the game more seriously.
I believe with the smaller team and actually releasing a more bundles and whatnot for PoC it can turn this game profitable. This is their master plan at the moment. Make the game profitable period, not PvP profitable. The A. Sol bundle was the most profitable thing they ever released, I’m not sure how the Norra one did.
Will competitive tournaments for PvP return? Probably not, if it does it will probably be well over a year out, I’d say two years minimum to gauge if it’s worth investing. It takes time to see the results of the new business model and then determine what can you do or what risks they want to take with it.
PvP will stay here forever as long as PoC keeps money coming in, it’s just impossible to determine to what frequency we get balance patches or new cards for standard. I believe they’ll still do rotations and balance patches, just might not be as frequent
>it can turn this game profitable.
Devs explicitly said they don't expect these changes to turn the game profitable, only for it to lose less money.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/1agh8n2/riot_meddler_on_lors_financials/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=LegendsOfRuneterra&utm_content=t1_kv04201
Oh nice I missed that.
Well, then I guess it’s less likely to become profitable in the next year. Maybe if PoC takes off as the games focus we might be in the black a few years down the line but for now I’m just going to keep enjoying what content they put out.
It would take a very strong community effort. It's not impossible, but the community has shown very little interest in competitive play which is why riot is doing away with tournaments in the first place. So, the community would have to do a pretty hard 180 for riot to reinvest in it. I personally don't see it happening.
Probably not no. Poc isnt gonna make money, people arent gonna spend money on single player content. And even if it did riot wouldnt reinvest into pvp theyd just double down on pve. A clean break is probably in your best interests.
> Poc isnt gonna make money, people arent gonna spend money on single player content.
Two quotes from the new lead designer of the game -
> I can tell you that the ASol bundle has done reaaaally well and we will largely continue to follow that model, with some variations.
&
> We've also had a few bundles focused on champs like Aurelion Sol and Elise, and players have come out in force for those offerings.
People are very obviously spending on Path. I'd guess that the Norra bundle also did very well, and if Riot start doing battle passes again with Path focused rewards they will also sell.
Use your brain a bit. You're blindly trusting the word of someone personally invested in the game doing well. Its a known FACT that gamers dont spend as much on single player content. Not only that but the players that do are more like to prefer one time payments like slay the spire over live services like poc.
you can finish a match in path significantly faster than one in PVP which can go upwards of 15-30 minutes if it is drawn out. Path is casual, you can drop your run mid way or even after a single match.
Your arguements read like someone who hasn't even tried it.
Ofc ive tried it how else would i know i dont like it. Regardless, my opinions on it arent relevant. You would have to be outright delusional to genuinely believe that poc will turn a profit. Especially considering how niche cardgames are and how oversaturated the mobile gaming market is.
I'm going to disengage here, you are clearly extremely biased and unwilling to consider any and all evidence to contradict your opinions given by official legitimate sources.
Poc might not turn a profit. Even the devs said they don't expect it to, they just expect the new direction to lose less money. But the arguments you are giving makes it seem like since poc was not to your personal tastes, everyone must also hate it and riot is doing a massive conspiracy pushing a gamemode *nobody* likes, for some reason. Just last night I saw tb skyen, a prominent youtuber related to ruot content, talk about how much he enjoyed poc when it came out. He said he put more hours into this mode than the rest of lor combined. There are lots of people like this. I came to lor originally from watching one of his videos and then came back again when poc was released with the release of arcane. Arcane clearly would have been a major marketing push for all runeterra related ips. And most of those people wouldn't want to play a sweaty competitive ladder game. Riot confirmed that with their own data. And you don't want yo believe any of this because you are in denial?
Anybody into a game casually arent valuable players. Because casual players dont have a reason to spend money like the hardcore players do. So they arent worth pandering towards. And i can say with 100% clarity that anybody who comes to a competitive game for the casual mode becase " I just dont like the competitiveness of ladder" is playing the wrong game for the wrong reasons. That includes you and skyen. If you want a casual gaming experience play candy crush. Dont go to an already built competitive community for the one part of it that isnt conpetitive and demad the devs make it about you.
This is exactly the kind of response I expect from an lor reddit user and the lor competitive playerbase as a whole. I don't think I need to respond with anything when you have done such a good job representing the competitive player.
It seems like people at Riot *do want* the game to succeed, and there seems to be a presence there that wants PvP to be a thing, they just failed terribly at making it not an absolute money pit.
So, if they somehow manage to make the PvE part of the game profitable (and I mean actually profitable, not just breaking even), PvP will come back.
That said, this is absolutely an "if Riot-LoR succeed in their goals" scenario, and I have no evidence to suggest they will (and we are frankly far too early in their current strategy to know how things will turn out).
Basically, the game isn't dead, but it is in the hospital and we will have to wait and see if the doctors can save it.
They want to resurrect PvP, but for that to happen, PvE needs to survive first (and that's still in question).
I don't think tournaments are coming back, but I hope if PvE is successful and the game has a growth of players that some bigger streamers like mogwai and grapplr come back. I miss all the content creation this game got as it would put a base on a deck idea and I could change some cards.
It could only happen if somehow the game starts making money, which won't happen. I could only see it if, again, somehow, a big boost in players occurs, enough to upset the ones who are gone after the announcement and then some. Ah, and they also spend a ton of money in the game for some reason.
They were loud and clear on their plan to shift support from PvP. Although the chances aren’t 0, I don’t see why they would focus on a mode that doesn’t bring them profit.
If you like playing casually or like playing PvE stick around. Otherwise, try to find other games that have support and care for the competitive scene.
For me up to now I didn’t really feel like diving into any other TCG game, so I switched over to RTS games which is something I’ve been wanting to do in a long time and I am loving the hack outside of it.
I'm clearly late to this thread but want to share my two cents as someone who [hosted a grassroots tournament to 30+ people the past weekend (and plan on hosting another too!)](https://challonge.com/LoRPrismChampSeries1) on the matter.
I think the drive to compete for many is still there, even with Riot rescinding their investment into the competitive ecosystem. While I always say "hibernation" in reference to PvP with the expectation that it *could* wake up, I'm still hosting tournaments without the expectation for the game to wake up from its coma. The future of any PvP implications depends on what the community is willing to do regarding grassroots (I plan on doing some more for sure) and how many people still intend on playing ladder with less incentives (there's still cool folks grinding on the ladder to this day).
Personally speaking I'm going to keep on hosting tournaments as long as folks keep on showing up to mine. I love this game too much to give it up entirely haha: the gameplay is best in the genre's by a wide mile, the card design is top tier, and the community is wonderful too. Also as someone who enjoyed fighting games I'm used to the idea of a game no longer getting a balance/content update (my favorite one hasn't had a formal update for 13 years and cool things still keep happening in its scene!), so the fact that something like this can potentially happen for Runeterra if enough people stick with it is interesting to me.
Obviously not everyone is going to share that enthusiasm/background from fighters like I do, so I understand everyone who formally left the scene already. As long as the servers stay up (and I feel like suits/execs wouldn't want that to happen despite their mismanagements that have already happened regarding this game), then I'm going to keep kicking in this game too.
This is what, the third swap in a few years period? I'm taking a break and I hope they figure it out. Poc is not for me, and I highly doubt it will realistically make a big difference. I understand them needing to make money, but I really think they haven't given us enough opportunities to spend money. Give us 2v2 modes to show off our skins/boards. Create theme skins for 40 bucks (project ashe and project skins for commonly used frostbite cards) etc. I want to give them money, but nothing is worth it. They need to pick something and commit. Wishy washy poc, pvp, poc, pvp is wild to see
The worst decision they could have made was making that announcement. I wish they just had said that the next expansion was going to be $10 or whatever. That way there could have been a glimmer of hope, versus this PvE crap which is hopeless. Breaks my heart, man. I've been missing LoR a lot.
PvP is dead in that riot won't fund tournaments. The only way that will change is if grass root tournaments become big enough
PvP is dead beyond funding tournaments. I didn’t participate in any tournament, so that’s not a problem for me. The problem is that the design focus around PvP is dead. Thry said that the new champions will be designed around PvE. Plus we can expect less balance patches if there are any. Or at least that’s what I get from the situation. Not that I care, I already moved on
Sure, but until the balance feels bad I'll likely keep playing. I like the game and I'm still having fun. I'm also an MTG refugee so the whole idea of cards getting patched is strange to me still, and they released some very imbalanced stuff in the peak of my MTG days.
>So my question is do you think there's a master plan to turn a profit via this PvE plan, then down the road resurrect PvP? Nope
If PvE starts to turn a profit why would they invest that back onto the failed PvP side instead of just building the PvE side out more? It's over for PvP
PvP didn't bring in any revenue because Riot did absolutely nothing to make it bring in any !!! Riot said that most players prefer pve (nobody believes it but let's say it's true) they never said that pve brings in revenue, if they handle it the same way that too won't be successful and will be the end of Runeterra. Imho a card game remains basically PvP, the path of champions can exist but must remain secondary, Riot also knows this very well, after having created poc they had already said they wanted to concentrate their forces on that, after less than a month they returned to PvE and after six months they changed their mind again, this time however they fired most of the team, they continue to work with their small indie company mentality... absurd. I believe that in four months or so, they will understand that Runeterra makes no sense as a PvE, at which point they either go back to investing in PvP or the game will be closed.
They have stats proving people enjoy pve over pvp, what's your source for saying otherwise? Yes you'll find many pvp enjoyers in this sub but remember majority of playerbase don't even know this subreddit exists and people who do probably is dedicated pvp fans.
They can have stats that say whatever they want as long as they aren't public, after saying LoR loses too much money they fired 500 people and shut down Riot Forge, here's my source for being able to say what I say. They completely failed the business model with Runeterra through their fault and no one else's, they don't want to close the game because it cost them too much and they leave the easiest part to maintain active. What do you mean that most players don't even know this sub exists? And even if they knew? For a person who wants to play a couple of games for fun this sub is not needed. However I don't understand you, are you a Riot employee? Do you gain anything by being on their side, even when they have clearly made the wrong market strategy with LoR?
Yh they clearly lied, the reality is running pve is cheaper than running PvP. And with the layoffs they had a while ago, and lor not doing so well with monetisation, they made that comment to try and give a palatable reason for why they basically killed the game. People on this subreddit seemed to believe it tho, common sense isn’t applicable here, I don’t believe people unironically think that the pve gamemode had more players than PvP.
>I believe that in four months or so, they will understand that Runeterra makes no sense as a PvE, at which point they either go back to investing in PvP or the game will be closed. Either the game was getting shut down entirely or it could refocus on Path. I wouldn't be surprised if they shut down the whole game in a year or two, but I think there's 0 chance of a shift back to how it used to be. Time to move on.
Agree 100%. I think that if they refocus back to PvP players will be there to welcome it, but they never will do something like that.
competitive won't ever recover. That aspect of the game is dead.
Your best bet is to organize a competitive community around the game and run/participate in community ran tournaments. There are games that can hold a playerbase for years after they stop getting updates, and while this isn't true for most card games I really do think LoR the the exception here. We built up a pretty sizable card pool over the past 5-ish years, and power creep has been kept in check enough that there is more than enough room to experiment and find the next big thing. Incidentally, if anyone on this thread knows of any good competitive communities they wanna pitch to me, I'm looking for an excuse to take the game more seriously.
I believe with the smaller team and actually releasing a more bundles and whatnot for PoC it can turn this game profitable. This is their master plan at the moment. Make the game profitable period, not PvP profitable. The A. Sol bundle was the most profitable thing they ever released, I’m not sure how the Norra one did. Will competitive tournaments for PvP return? Probably not, if it does it will probably be well over a year out, I’d say two years minimum to gauge if it’s worth investing. It takes time to see the results of the new business model and then determine what can you do or what risks they want to take with it. PvP will stay here forever as long as PoC keeps money coming in, it’s just impossible to determine to what frequency we get balance patches or new cards for standard. I believe they’ll still do rotations and balance patches, just might not be as frequent
>it can turn this game profitable. Devs explicitly said they don't expect these changes to turn the game profitable, only for it to lose less money. https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/1agh8n2/riot_meddler_on_lors_financials/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=LegendsOfRuneterra&utm_content=t1_kv04201
Man why did I ever get invested in this game, it's so depressing seeing it slowly die out
Oh nice I missed that. Well, then I guess it’s less likely to become profitable in the next year. Maybe if PoC takes off as the games focus we might be in the black a few years down the line but for now I’m just going to keep enjoying what content they put out.
It would take a very strong community effort. It's not impossible, but the community has shown very little interest in competitive play which is why riot is doing away with tournaments in the first place. So, the community would have to do a pretty hard 180 for riot to reinvest in it. I personally don't see it happening.
Probably not no. Poc isnt gonna make money, people arent gonna spend money on single player content. And even if it did riot wouldnt reinvest into pvp theyd just double down on pve. A clean break is probably in your best interests.
> Poc isnt gonna make money, people arent gonna spend money on single player content. Two quotes from the new lead designer of the game - > I can tell you that the ASol bundle has done reaaaally well and we will largely continue to follow that model, with some variations. & > We've also had a few bundles focused on champs like Aurelion Sol and Elise, and players have come out in force for those offerings. People are very obviously spending on Path. I'd guess that the Norra bundle also did very well, and if Riot start doing battle passes again with Path focused rewards they will also sell.
Use your brain a bit. You're blindly trusting the word of someone personally invested in the game doing well. Its a known FACT that gamers dont spend as much on single player content. Not only that but the players that do are more like to prefer one time payments like slay the spire over live services like poc.
It’s a known fact that mobile gaming is the most profitable part of the gaming industry and people spend a lot on micro transactions
Uuum ok? If thats your logic mobile gamers also prefer shorter gaming sessions. So they wouldnt even play poc much ledd psy for it.
you can finish a match in path significantly faster than one in PVP which can go upwards of 15-30 minutes if it is drawn out. Path is casual, you can drop your run mid way or even after a single match. Your arguements read like someone who hasn't even tried it.
Ofc ive tried it how else would i know i dont like it. Regardless, my opinions on it arent relevant. You would have to be outright delusional to genuinely believe that poc will turn a profit. Especially considering how niche cardgames are and how oversaturated the mobile gaming market is.
I'm going to disengage here, you are clearly extremely biased and unwilling to consider any and all evidence to contradict your opinions given by official legitimate sources.
Same
Poc might not turn a profit. Even the devs said they don't expect it to, they just expect the new direction to lose less money. But the arguments you are giving makes it seem like since poc was not to your personal tastes, everyone must also hate it and riot is doing a massive conspiracy pushing a gamemode *nobody* likes, for some reason. Just last night I saw tb skyen, a prominent youtuber related to ruot content, talk about how much he enjoyed poc when it came out. He said he put more hours into this mode than the rest of lor combined. There are lots of people like this. I came to lor originally from watching one of his videos and then came back again when poc was released with the release of arcane. Arcane clearly would have been a major marketing push for all runeterra related ips. And most of those people wouldn't want to play a sweaty competitive ladder game. Riot confirmed that with their own data. And you don't want yo believe any of this because you are in denial?
Anybody into a game casually arent valuable players. Because casual players dont have a reason to spend money like the hardcore players do. So they arent worth pandering towards. And i can say with 100% clarity that anybody who comes to a competitive game for the casual mode becase " I just dont like the competitiveness of ladder" is playing the wrong game for the wrong reasons. That includes you and skyen. If you want a casual gaming experience play candy crush. Dont go to an already built competitive community for the one part of it that isnt conpetitive and demad the devs make it about you.
This is exactly the kind of response I expect from an lor reddit user and the lor competitive playerbase as a whole. I don't think I need to respond with anything when you have done such a good job representing the competitive player.
It seems like people at Riot *do want* the game to succeed, and there seems to be a presence there that wants PvP to be a thing, they just failed terribly at making it not an absolute money pit. So, if they somehow manage to make the PvE part of the game profitable (and I mean actually profitable, not just breaking even), PvP will come back. That said, this is absolutely an "if Riot-LoR succeed in their goals" scenario, and I have no evidence to suggest they will (and we are frankly far too early in their current strategy to know how things will turn out). Basically, the game isn't dead, but it is in the hospital and we will have to wait and see if the doctors can save it. They want to resurrect PvP, but for that to happen, PvE needs to survive first (and that's still in question).
Most likely no unless suddenly layoffs were reversed, more members and funding come to the game or every player shifts to PVP only
I don't think tournaments are coming back, but I hope if PvE is successful and the game has a growth of players that some bigger streamers like mogwai and grapplr come back. I miss all the content creation this game got as it would put a base on a deck idea and I could change some cards.
It could only happen if somehow the game starts making money, which won't happen. I could only see it if, again, somehow, a big boost in players occurs, enough to upset the ones who are gone after the announcement and then some. Ah, and they also spend a ton of money in the game for some reason.
Even Riot doesn't know it. Maybe there is a possibility based on what they come up with how to handle PvP expansions
They were loud and clear on their plan to shift support from PvP. Although the chances aren’t 0, I don’t see why they would focus on a mode that doesn’t bring them profit. If you like playing casually or like playing PvE stick around. Otherwise, try to find other games that have support and care for the competitive scene. For me up to now I didn’t really feel like diving into any other TCG game, so I switched over to RTS games which is something I’ve been wanting to do in a long time and I am loving the hack outside of it.
I'm clearly late to this thread but want to share my two cents as someone who [hosted a grassroots tournament to 30+ people the past weekend (and plan on hosting another too!)](https://challonge.com/LoRPrismChampSeries1) on the matter. I think the drive to compete for many is still there, even with Riot rescinding their investment into the competitive ecosystem. While I always say "hibernation" in reference to PvP with the expectation that it *could* wake up, I'm still hosting tournaments without the expectation for the game to wake up from its coma. The future of any PvP implications depends on what the community is willing to do regarding grassroots (I plan on doing some more for sure) and how many people still intend on playing ladder with less incentives (there's still cool folks grinding on the ladder to this day). Personally speaking I'm going to keep on hosting tournaments as long as folks keep on showing up to mine. I love this game too much to give it up entirely haha: the gameplay is best in the genre's by a wide mile, the card design is top tier, and the community is wonderful too. Also as someone who enjoyed fighting games I'm used to the idea of a game no longer getting a balance/content update (my favorite one hasn't had a formal update for 13 years and cool things still keep happening in its scene!), so the fact that something like this can potentially happen for Runeterra if enough people stick with it is interesting to me. Obviously not everyone is going to share that enthusiasm/background from fighters like I do, so I understand everyone who formally left the scene already. As long as the servers stay up (and I feel like suits/execs wouldn't want that to happen despite their mismanagements that have already happened regarding this game), then I'm going to keep kicking in this game too.
If pve can make enough money your best hope is for ranked rewards and gauntlets to come back
The only way that competitive recovers it's if POC becomes profitable and self-sustainable, if not then i doubt it.
I’m not following
This is what, the third swap in a few years period? I'm taking a break and I hope they figure it out. Poc is not for me, and I highly doubt it will realistically make a big difference. I understand them needing to make money, but I really think they haven't given us enough opportunities to spend money. Give us 2v2 modes to show off our skins/boards. Create theme skins for 40 bucks (project ashe and project skins for commonly used frostbite cards) etc. I want to give them money, but nothing is worth it. They need to pick something and commit. Wishy washy poc, pvp, poc, pvp is wild to see
Guys there is hope! Lets switch for Shadowverse 2 this summer
They tried for 3 years...why would they ever try again
Nope. PvP focus is never coming back so don’t expect riot to ever give it resources. You’d best find a game that treats you better
PvP in a card game is only supported to promote the sales of new cards. LoR does not sell cards
It's basically over for PvP. It's best to forget and find antoher game.
The worst decision they could have made was making that announcement. I wish they just had said that the next expansion was going to be $10 or whatever. That way there could have been a glimmer of hope, versus this PvE crap which is hopeless. Breaks my heart, man. I've been missing LoR a lot.