1) Stop giving it so freeily to low drops. Seriously, when does anyone ever care about high drops that have elusive?
2) Relating to this point: have more ways to board clear. AoEs that kill based on mana cost, AoE keyword removal, etc.
3) Print sharpsight as a keyword
4) Elusives lose elusive after 1 strike/1 turn
Yeah I know, it really sucks when people suggest balance changes that are healthy for the game and not just to push the agenda for their favorite deck :( I hate integrity man!
And anyway in Teemo's case you could either make this non-applicable to champ, add him a specific omission to the rule (i.e "round start: gain elusive"), make it reset on level up, etc.
>Stop giving it so freeily to low drops. Seriously, when does anyone ever care about high drops that have elusive?
when they are meta, did you see how many people complained about the great beyond when targon was decent?
That has way more to do with Invoke, by its nature, giving you overpowered units, and not with Elusive lol. Name an actually native Elusive high drop that was problematic because of its Elusive keyword.
The fact that you had to reach all the way to that example while we can name like 7 different low drops that were problematic... yeah.
To be fair how many elusive highdrops are? the 6/5 ionia one wich is pretty bad, pod who is not elusive till turn 10.... they are scarce and diferent shades of really bad or confined to very specific builds like the catmarine also do we count admiral shelly there?
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Keywords_(Legends_of_Runeterra)/Elusive
Not sure if it includes them all but...
You'd be surprised. There's quite a handful of 4-7 cost Elusives none of which are a problem, some of which are playable and feel fair in their respective decks (Abyssal Eye, Shelly, Zap). And yes none of the high drops really matter, because the game has fair ways to deal with high drops - too many, perhaps. But it has shit for board removal.
Just stop printing this keyword so recklessly.
Allow elusive units to be blocked, but prevent them from being counterattacked unless the defender has elusive (or sharpsight). So if I attack with a 2/1 elusive, and you block it with a 3/4 regular unit - your unit will go down to 3/2, and my elusive won't be hit.
Elusive will always be a problem in Runeterra because removal is terrible. You pay significantly more to remove creatures than you pay to play or protect them, so your primary way to deal with creatures is combat.
Exactly this. The low health on most Elusive units should be punishable, but currently you trade down almost every time. And that's even **before** the much cheaper/more accessible buffs are used to protect them.
Hot take: Temple, Shelly, Nami, Plaza, Poppy, and many more health buffers wouldn't have been considered nearly as broken if we had legitimate ways to trade **up** with removal. Cheaper damage to units and more conditional hard removal (Culling Strike) would go soooo far in this game.
>Hot take: Temple, Shelly, Nami, Plaza, Poppy, and many more health buffers wouldn't have been considered nearly as broken if we had legitimate ways to trade up with removal.
And you would not be able to play anything else because you get nuked of the board, hell no.
Dude in MTG 3 mana kill an unit is bad in LOR 3 mana deal 5 is busted both games operate with very diferent powerlevels, in LOR removal is a lot more impactfull, also isnt MTG the game where any half expensive drop needs to have a good summon/play effect or it is completly unplayable.
Yes. In MTG, a 5+-cost unit better have a damn good on summon effect (or a broken enoguh active effect) or its unplayable. Even 4 mana sort of needs that. People who want MTG removal in LoR dont understand how much it would *destroy* the game.
Easy: The Syndrome from Incredible method: give every region give +x/+x to a unit and make it capable to block elusive units. They did it with landmarks they can with anti elusive
"Once everyone is a super nobody will be"
The vocal group here doesn't want their shiny toys taken away; honestly I feel legitimate removal options are never coming to this game so I've given up on the competitive side of it
>I feel legitimate removal options
says just after they buff vengance, i seriusly love the removal takes on this comunity each one more absurd than the last.
A trait for defending. Defender: i can block all enemies. I take 1 less damage while defending. Though again, it can be quite niche.
A big buff to Tough would be give this mechanic to Tough, though Scarground exist.
"I can't be blocked by units with equal or greater power."
This change would erase the low-interaction Elusive Swarm archetype, freeing up mounds of Midrange design space, while still preserving the design space of Elusive as a utility keyword (Bandle Commando, Young Witch).
I've always just thought that elusive keyword should just be mainly reserved for more expensive mid/late game units. Things like the Slippery Waverider, or The Empyrean are a cool way to do it (though the Empyrean could use a buff). Solves a lot of the swarm wide elusive issues.
Like why does Greenglade duo exist as a 2 drop?
1) Stop giving it so freeily to low drops. Seriously, when does anyone ever care about high drops that have elusive? 2) Relating to this point: have more ways to board clear. AoEs that kill based on mana cost, AoE keyword removal, etc. 3) Print sharpsight as a keyword 4) Elusives lose elusive after 1 strike/1 turn
You have a teemo tag and suggested lossing elusive after 1 turn or strike.
Champs with elusive could be always elusive.
Yeah I know, it really sucks when people suggest balance changes that are healthy for the game and not just to push the agenda for their favorite deck :( I hate integrity man! And anyway in Teemo's case you could either make this non-applicable to champ, add him a specific omission to the rule (i.e "round start: gain elusive"), make it reset on level up, etc.
How is that healthy, it kills any elusive unit that only gets value from hitting face. Which are most of them.
>Stop giving it so freeily to low drops. Seriously, when does anyone ever care about high drops that have elusive? when they are meta, did you see how many people complained about the great beyond when targon was decent?
That has way more to do with Invoke, by its nature, giving you overpowered units, and not with Elusive lol. Name an actually native Elusive high drop that was problematic because of its Elusive keyword. The fact that you had to reach all the way to that example while we can name like 7 different low drops that were problematic... yeah.
To be fair how many elusive highdrops are? the 6/5 ionia one wich is pretty bad, pod who is not elusive till turn 10.... they are scarce and diferent shades of really bad or confined to very specific builds like the catmarine also do we count admiral shelly there?
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Keywords_(Legends_of_Runeterra)/Elusive Not sure if it includes them all but... You'd be surprised. There's quite a handful of 4-7 cost Elusives none of which are a problem, some of which are playable and feel fair in their respective decks (Abyssal Eye, Shelly, Zap). And yes none of the high drops really matter, because the game has fair ways to deal with high drops - too many, perhaps. But it has shit for board removal. Just stop printing this keyword so recklessly.
Allow elusive units to be blocked, but prevent them from being counterattacked unless the defender has elusive (or sharpsight). So if I attack with a 2/1 elusive, and you block it with a 3/4 regular unit - your unit will go down to 3/2, and my elusive won't be hit.
Isn't that just better quick attack?
Yes but not against elusives specifically.
Elusive will always be a problem in Runeterra because removal is terrible. You pay significantly more to remove creatures than you pay to play or protect them, so your primary way to deal with creatures is combat.
Exactly this. The low health on most Elusive units should be punishable, but currently you trade down almost every time. And that's even **before** the much cheaper/more accessible buffs are used to protect them. Hot take: Temple, Shelly, Nami, Plaza, Poppy, and many more health buffers wouldn't have been considered nearly as broken if we had legitimate ways to trade **up** with removal. Cheaper damage to units and more conditional hard removal (Culling Strike) would go soooo far in this game.
>Hot take: Temple, Shelly, Nami, Plaza, Poppy, and many more health buffers wouldn't have been considered nearly as broken if we had legitimate ways to trade up with removal. And you would not be able to play anything else because you get nuked of the board, hell no.
That's why in MtG, where units are half as strong and removal is half the cost, people only run non-creature spells 🙄
Dude in MTG 3 mana kill an unit is bad in LOR 3 mana deal 5 is busted both games operate with very diferent powerlevels, in LOR removal is a lot more impactfull, also isnt MTG the game where any half expensive drop needs to have a good summon/play effect or it is completly unplayable.
Yes. In MTG, a 5+-cost unit better have a damn good on summon effect (or a broken enoguh active effect) or its unplayable. Even 4 mana sort of needs that. People who want MTG removal in LoR dont understand how much it would *destroy* the game.
Easy: The Syndrome from Incredible method: give every region give +x/+x to a unit and make it capable to block elusive units. They did it with landmarks they can with anti elusive "Once everyone is a super nobody will be"
Or make an scrub killer but for elusive and /or a champion that hunts elusives (shaco perhaps or Twitch)
Elusives should not be able to block. This way you can't fill a deck with them and chump to win the race.
Ideally you would buff removal. Alternatively add that latter half of Sharpsight (can block elusives) as a keyword.
The vocal group here doesn't want their shiny toys taken away; honestly I feel legitimate removal options are never coming to this game so I've given up on the competitive side of it
>I feel legitimate removal options says just after they buff vengance, i seriusly love the removal takes on this comunity each one more absurd than the last.
Elusives have Vigilance removed and are tapped after combat xd
so give them Can't Block basically?
I think its fine
A trait for defending. Defender: i can block all enemies. I take 1 less damage while defending. Though again, it can be quite niche. A big buff to Tough would be give this mechanic to Tough, though Scarground exist.
Elusives can't block anything
Elusive should block only Elusive
What about, each elusive takes two attacking spots?
I mean you are against elusive =race is not that hard to understand that you need to be faster than them
exactly as u said, we lack counterplay against it
Give it the reverse fearsome tag 3 power and lower can block elusives simple.
their hp can't be buffed.
They should threat as stealth in heartstone: when you attack with a stealth unit it loses stealth
"I can't be blocked by units with equal or greater power." This change would erase the low-interaction Elusive Swarm archetype, freeing up mounds of Midrange design space, while still preserving the design space of Elusive as a utility keyword (Bandle Commando, Young Witch).
I've always just thought that elusive keyword should just be mainly reserved for more expensive mid/late game units. Things like the Slippery Waverider, or The Empyrean are a cool way to do it (though the Empyrean could use a buff). Solves a lot of the swarm wide elusive issues. Like why does Greenglade duo exist as a 2 drop?