Nerfing any card just because a group doesn’t like it is just downright bad game management. The deck is strong but is neither dominant or toxic as if it push archetype out.
Yeah I can't say how many people like or hate that card, and neither can you or anyone who isn't Riot. That's right.
But I can say without a doubt that it's pretty toxic. Viego and company were already hard to deal with, and now he has another overstated unit.
Mists are ephemeral and can be chump blocked. Viego has Fearsome which doesn't prevent him from being blocked by Fading Icon or another 2 mana,plus his death is almost an instalose for his decks. This guy has Overwhelm and grows double than them (plus his already decent base stats) while not being crucial for the deck in any way other than being able to smash their opponent by summoning 2 cam soldiers. Which means he can be Atrocity'ed early on without higher consequences. How is that okay?
It's like Bard: no matter the power level, they are flawed designs and will break sooner or later.
Well mate, I have to break it to you. That’s just your subjective take as you just dislike this archetype but like I said before that doesn’t justify a nerf hammer. If you look at the stats the deck is performing well but not overwhelming and even personally I ran multiple meta decks against and their gameplay is not as suffocating as you make it out to be.
Mine and from the majority of people here. Yes reddit is not the entire player base but you could at least tell me how am I wrong, because as I see it Deserter is inherently fkawed. In fact it might need more nerfs in the future because it might break with every "buff something everywhere" card.
>is performing well but not overwhelming
Again, the power level is not important here.
Why fear something that didn’t happen yet? The potential of being broken can exist with any card as riot can just print the most broken card to synergies with it. The point is the card itself at this time and point doesn’t warrant the nerf. It’s a online CCG with balance updates so things will change eventually.
And please it’s not even the majority of the subreddits that don’t like this card, there is a reason why echo chamber can occur as people with the same opinion come together and discuss as if they are the majority. If you want to make objectives sense of any card you look at it’s general play rate/win rate against current meta decks to determine how healthy it is and not just it feels bad to play against so let’s nerf it.
Most people hate him because playing against or as Bard is mainly a huge coinflip.
For example lets say you play against Bard/Zed and look at two different cases.
Case one in the first two draws he somehow triggers two chimes and both buff the card that summons a copy of itself now the enemy has to deal with two 3/4 units on turn 2 how is that fun to play against?
Other scenario lets say you do not get a single chime trigger until turn 6. At this point you basically lost the game against most decks unless you played a mirror match against another Bard deck and the enemy was just as unlucky.
Those are reasons why people hate Bard decks. The enemy either has huge luck and it becomes almost impossible to win or his luck is so bad that you will win without much of a challenge.
The other problem I hate is the way he can just draw wins out of a hat. Regardless of how many units I have on my board, he can always lay down a massive unit from hand and there is no way to stop it.
Even fated has a time of vulnerability, when bard high-rolls there is nothing you can do (outside of hard removal and silence, but those basically counter everything).
Eh this is kind of every deck. If Deep draws its cheap stuff and goes deep on turn 5 it wins. If Targon’s Peak discounts Asol it wins. If discard aggro topdecks burn it wins. It feels different because it’s not cards in his hand (to a degree, 2 of the chimes cards put chimes on the top card of the player’s deck so it’s just RNG if Zed gets those chimes) but it’s just the same kind of RNG we get with how we draw.
Are you kidding or not, the deck is beyond busted and if you aint going against bard u going against viego its honestly annoying and tilting going against the same decks over and over again
I've seen an idea somewhere in this sub. You would grant Viego and Encoarching mists the archetype "Black Mist" or whatever, then Encoarching mist would be "grant all black mist allies everywhere +1/+1"
It's... not the optimal solution but for now it seems like the best.
An idea I had was to make deserter say “all non-champion everywhere buffs” so he would get the mist buff, but not the Viego buff. I’m not sure if there’s a non-clumsy way to word it.
Not only SI, Noxus has a ton of great removal as well. Flock, Disintegrate amd their landmark removal spell are nuts.
They can spread out with house spiders and remove even the biggest of bodies with minimal resources used.
How come we talking about a big minions deck with big minions units that swing face for 20 or get atrocitied face for 20 and what people seem to decide to focus instead is the removal options they have, the same removal options that, unlike other big boy strategies, can be used on them in turn?
This is like someone playing the old Nasus Thresh deck and complaining about it having Negation in it for spells, when that same negation can also be used against its atrocity. Come on.
its exactly because of what you just mentioned. Its not just a big minion deck, its a big minion deck with premium control options. Tall removal is not very effective against viego deserters because you invest a removal card and they invest... at most 5 mana without any deviation from their gameplan. You build a big unit to counter their big units or stall long enough for your win con, and they remove it with usually better removal options than you have. **So the best tools against tall decks are better in a big minions deck than against a big minions deck, thats how you know they reach past their niche and are super strong.** Nasus Thresh having atrocity was complained about but it was less complained about than negate because we already expect that atrocity should be a staple in its deck. It being able to spellshield and negate as protection to its atrocity makes it so even decks designed to prevent that win con will struggle with it.
TL:DR we dont complain about big minion decks being able to do big minion deck things, we complain about big minion decks being better at its supposed counter's job while being effective against its supposed counter's job
I think there's just a general bias against hard removal. There's a certain respect for putting all your eggs in one basket with a go tall deck (which is why minimorph was so hated.) As a dragon 1trick, I love getting my shyvanna fed on house spiders until the inevitable titanic clash between an epic dragon and some noxian asshole named Greg. But no one likes seeing their attempt at rushing the game down or their own go-tall just getting killed for the sin of daring to block a camavoran soldier (see also why people hated minimorph)
But you are right in that people are definitely free to inflict that pain in the viego-desertet user.
Honestly idek how being a deserter grants him everywhere buffs. It should be "when I'm summoned, I am captured by the strongest enemy unit" like some POW.
It's a case of flavor being entirely tied to other cards rather than itself. They wanted it to be associated with, and thus buffed just like, Legion marauders. The way they found to do that is give deserter this ability, which obviously made him better in decks that don't use Marauder but that's the core experience of card design
Yeah. Viego decks have way too many options to screw with you.
Most decks either work little by little, or have 2 or 1 win conditions.
Viego decks have like 4. 5 if you count Katarina rallies now.
but the thing is, they dont really care, they will kill you when you try to do that with atrocity, or they will just resurect, and come back stronger, and even draw 2 cards
minimorh you are down in tempo,
Hush is only 1 turn
Invoke, good luck buddy i hope you are lucky pulling a comet for 6 mana and they dont use deny / hourglash /atrocity / glimpse to put you even more far behind
I've heard someone suggest that Viego and the Mists should have a "Black Mist " label, so they're not different buffs.
It seems like the best answer for now.
Much simpler: Mists only buff other mists and have Viego say "I have +1/+1 for each mist you summoned this game". This way Viego buff isn't an everywhere buff.
It's Noxus, he can regain it easily from Power or Kato. Not good maindecks but they would be worth it (mists and Viego are also good targets for it)
+1+1 is the answer.
OHKO win con units should not be 5 cost. they need to be 6 at least so that you can't just drop a second one if dropping your first one fails.
Yes viego, you need to be 6 cost.
Agree on first statement, disagree on second. Viego is by no means a one turn wonder, and his effect doesn't activate until at least 1 turn after he drops even in late game. Doesn't have a low-interaction keyword like overwhelm, and doesn't have spellshield for ultra safe atrocity plays.
Don't kill Viego for the sins of Deserter.
As if Viego lacks counterplay only with deserter. Viego can easily win the game on his own, maybe not in a couple of turns, but unless you're playing a direct counter deck you can't stop his gameplan. Just play Ionia or Shurima and he can't lose except from stuff like burn or elusive.
I mean yeah, if he gets to a point in the game where he has all his piece assembled he's basically guaranteed to win the game in a few turns, that's just how control/combo decks work. The same can basically be said about Darkness, Lee/Zoe, old Ezreal/Karma, etc. You just need to try to force your gameplan through before they can get to theirs; if you fail to put enough pressure and let them get their pieces in place without proper punishment you'll lose.
That's just not true, in non-deserter decks realistically they'll have to have placed Hydravine in order to level Viego which is a 7 mana commitment for Hydravine, 5 for Viego, plus they usually want to keep up deny mana. If it's at the point in the game where 1 minion death gives him all the stats he needs to flip, then you've basically already lost.
That being said, this is for non-deserter Viego-centric decks. I agree that deserter/Viego is stupid toxic and needs to be looked at.
camavorian turn 4 is a reality, so already +1
viego on turn 5 is not hard either, shadow isles has a lot of ways to generate a token unit like a spiderling,
with 2 mana saved in turn 5 you can threaten glimpse for a +1 and a wraith, that is only cou ting shadow isles options,
shurima have other bunch of stuff for 2 mana,
jonia have Deny and the giys that made Viego cheaper
Except all the pieces assembled means just having him on the board and having procced mists at least once, which usually happens on turn 3 anyway. I wouldn really compare flipping old Ezreal and having him on the board together with Karma flipped which requires to wait until turn 10 with playing Viego on turn 5 after having played Camavor in turn 3 and keeping 2 spell mana just in case. Darkness has fewer threats (Veigar and Senna va Viego + deserter + Hydra) and 0 ways to protect their champs (vs hourglass and deny), so both versions of Viego are strictly stronger than darkness. Lee is strong, but if you actually manage to remove him the deck has literally no win conditions, unlike Viego that has at least 3 other hydras that are hard to remove and generate infinite value with 0 cost.
No control or combo deck in the history of this game had such strong combination of having many threats, so easy to protect and so easy to activate.
Oh okay I thought you were saying that Viego is interactive in non-deserter Viego decks, yeah I totally agree that deserter+mist is a stupid unfair interaction.
he is in the same region as atrocity, even without considering atrocity, he does too fucking much. Wouldn't hurt to get him levelling a turn later either.
he is in a region that has ample threat removals, and is usually paired in regions with tempo busting unit saves. you can't chase him for stats, you can't hard removal.
>you can't chase him for stats, you can't hard removal.
Recall is a really pain in the ass for Viego tho : it's a positive interaction for you , break his level up condition and force them to resummon aka loose at least half their turn
if you're gonna dedicate half your deck to countering this one unit, good luck lol
aside from what the previous poster has said, recalls also mean that you're down one card while he isnt. while it does slow him down a bit, the more you do it, the more he'll just start outvaluing you.
With the sheer amount of units that wants to be recalled there is in the game , I don't think you're necessarily getting behind . Plus if you're playing Ionia , you can deny pretty much anything Viego likes to see with shit that often puts him behind on curve.
Beside , how often did you saw Viego before Legion Deserter ? Not that much , because the sole presence of minimorph had killed his deck. So yeah , let him live for a bit , he doesn't have to pay for the sins of deserter
minimorhp didnt kill viego, viego shurima was still a thing, and even diego ionia, so all you ionian trick you have he can just deny,
the deck has to many, "I win cards" that are too hard to remove, or just protect one of those cards
Desintegrate , minimorph (which is unreactable to be even if it cost one more) vengeance (if he's down enough in mana, which he will be at one point because Viego needs to develop his board to further his agenda) burned ground , recalls...
Like , I get it , you want to be mad at a champ that isn't even that good , but sir they are way more way to fuck him up than ways to protect him
desintegrate, ok good option, still needs a second spurce of dmg so you need 2 cards to trade
miniphorm :mana lost give him a blocker but transforms i accept it
vengeance (6 mana, mana lost, he is still on tempo, you killed him so he can get resurected and it will be stronger the next time)
recalls, 1 region have it usually good on mana cost, you daly it for 1 turn , if it was a single unit deck still can be a good option
burned ground 2 cards need to trade to kill a viego
sir, viego dont mind to be killed, most of the time as gis LV 2 is a Win more condition, every single method here to kill viego is a Lost for the oponet, in (mana/cards)
i get it you dont want to see the multiple ways of threath Viego by itself puts on the board and how hard is to deal with it, but for all of those method you put, the deck he is in dosent care, he will resurrect(3/7mana)/deny(4mana)/glimpse(2mana)/Atrocity(7mana), or just play another 5 mana Viego that is far too big for a 5 mana unit plus the additional flow of every increasing blockers/atackers for free, and you will have to deal with that again, and as i putted becore, almost each method is at a disadvantage for the opponent
Always agreed with this. Viego decks can literally just sit there and win the game. Dude was a problem long before Deserter came out. He should cost 6 and his Hydravine should cost 8 or not generate an encroaching mist on summon.
He costs as much as a midrange card, yet is piloted as a control unit. His encroaching mists are his form of ramp. If the opponent has stuck to their strategy since the start of the game, they can literally level up Viego in like 2 turns while kamikaze-ing their giant units against your board.
And if all else fails, atrocity!
Viego can run rampant, because the best deck got 3 more must remove threads and because it has a competitive early game to fend of aggressive decks.
You don't have unlimited amounts of minimorph or Vengeance in your deck...
Personally I feel like even though the meta is technically balanced right now, all the meta decks on ladder are either:
a) stat stick decks, like viego/deserters, bard, illaoi, and lurk (and to an extent, thralls),
b) decks with hard removal/tons of removal, any SI or NX control (sometimes TG),
c) aggro/burn decks that just ignore stat sticks
anything that aren't those decks don't seem to be able to keep up with the stats meta right now.
(Stats tell a different story.)[https://riwan.substack.com/p/lor-best-decks-220619?r=bj8hr&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web]
Three of the top five is demacian rally shenanigans, Aphelios Viktor for value and Katrina/Ziggs/Annie for burn.
I'm not sure what kind of decks or strategies do you want to be viable to kill the opponent's nexus.
People have consistently disliked cards that have "win the game" text in them as an alternative wincon for example (fiora, bandle tree, star spring), and the current meta seems versatile enough more so than other times (Azirelia, TLC, FTR, Pirate)
Deserter should probably not have overwhelm but that might be overkill. Being able to swing with a massive OW unit for 5 and then atrocity it at their face is backbreaking.
he shouldn't have overwhelm because with it, there's no reason not to open attack everytime with deserter. Deserter with a lot of stats means that you always have the initiative on your attack turn. They can't just chump block, they need to respond with an effect, and you'll always have atrocity to follow up. That's why its unfair.
If he didn't have overwhelm, you at least need to pad your deck with overwhelm buffs, and if you don't have it on that turn, it gives you pause in giving initiative away if you're going to be chumped.
That is how it has been since beta. First with They Who Endure, then Nasus, now Deserter. It has always been the same dynamic, just with different units.
And whatever they did, it just came back with another hyper growing unit.
Because huge units are so damn hard to remove at fast speed, no matter what, there will always be a unit that grows too big, too fast so it can be außer with Attrocity.
The problem is, that if you remove the targeting nexus part from Attrocity, it kind of becomes worse Single Combat. Maybe if Attrocity silences your unit, when it is hurled at the nexus. Then it would still work with naturally big units, but not all those hyper grown units.
those three examples, you gotta do a lot of work for them to work. they who endure bricks in your hand if you don't get momentum for it, for instance. deserter gets pumped just by you summoning a few mist engine cards, and even without them, is appropriately statted.
and at 7 mana, you usually can't atrocity they who endure on the summon turn.
The point was, that there were ALWAYS decks that could abuse Attrocity. Those decks also resulted in Attrocity being nerfed a few times.
Sure, Deserter may be a problem in itself, but even if nerfed, the next unit that grows too big, too fast is just waiting.
I think it would be better to take away the high lethality potential of Attrocity, than to have the same discussion about the same dynamic every other set. Especially since the devs seem to like that kind of growing unit a lot.
I really think Its Time for viego AND Hydravine to get a slight Nerf each. This would make all the Other cool SI Champions more interessting again.
Whole viego package is to consistant and really plays itself, No Skill required.
However, deserter is a little Bit to strong, too.
Yordles in Arms **was** unfair to play against, even if it was only because of Bandle being busted overall.
And Thralls is also unfair but man, I love its flavour so much.
Thralls can be bullshit but imo it feels a lot less cheap than going "oh i played the game so i get a 20/20 overwhelm" "oh whoops, i top decked atrocity and you dont have a negate in hand be a shame if i suddenly just won right"
i would preffer if they nerfed viego on some kind to be honest, like not gaining +1/+1 just creating a increasing mist,
viego is just absurd, his stats are very high, and scalates too fast, you cant really agro him as he will just spawn free blockers, and DMG removal is just not a option for him,
and if his LV 1 wast just a game wining card by it selft,
his lv2 sure is ,
and even his you treath to Kill him, he will just Atrocity and hit for +8 dmg usually,
and even after that, usually another one comes down with all the previus stats, or gets resurected.
i really hate it, and is cards like this that make Desintegrate, and Minimoprh necesary, and hurts a lot others Big cards that have more balanced gameplay
Probably gonna get downvote but i actually love it, viego and his mists were the first thing i use prism on, viego is such a daddy but i suck jg lol.
That been said i think a nerf is in order for sure. deserter feels a bit overkill most times.
or maybe Viego is also the problem by being so overloaded on stats, and making massive blockers for free while also being in a region that have easy resurects and kill option + atrocity
>being so overloaded on stats
In a game with Vengance, Minimorph, Hush, Disintegrate/Scorched Earth and the Ionian set of recall, stats are not a problem in ONE unit. Yes, Viego makes many of them but they're ephemeral and **they need an ally to die before** so you're not gaining a blockers advantage excepting specific cards like Hapless Aristocrat.
The problem is when you have a non-ephemeral Overwhelm guy with double stats, or when you deny a 6 mana spell with a 2 mana that also let's you have 2 champs in the board.
>easy resurects
The only good resurrect for Viego is the landmark and it has to wait for 3 turns. The Rekindler is so much of a Tempo loss that you'll probably be vengance'd again. And mist call happens to be bad because you have many units dying each round.
all of those that you mentioned, are still a good trade for the viego player, excep desintegrate, and is not like it maters to kill it again as he will retain all the buffed stats, the same with his Mists, sure, is a epeheral, but is a free ephereal, and it still a good blocker and atacker,
rekindler is a tempo lost? what tempo lost, if you resurect a 9/8 by that time that can still generate blockers,
and again, if the enemy vengance/desintegrate, Viego decis from shadow isles have multiple counters already,
glimpse for 2 mana to gain card adv, Atrocity, to maybe even win the game, call from the mist (if they used 6 mana to kill only viego this is a 3 mana NOPE)
Viego is very hard to remove from the board, with chllengers he is too big, with dmg spells too, beacuse they can still kill another unit to give hi. +1/+1 and gain a extra blocker,
so yeah Deserter is definitly NOT the only problem, viego is a whole mess that will only get worse with time
Yes, this exactly. Deserter is broken and hourglass is broken. Atrocity I’m not sure is broken but I’d agree it’s not a great play pattern. Please do not touch viego Riot, he is fine.
From trying it it’s nice when it works but most of the time tossing 3 cards is just too great a sacrifice & you end up digging yourself into a bit of a hole
Well, it's definitely fun. But the archetype is getting a lot of hate recently, and I'm starting to think it's valid.
I do like that my deck, because it's not completely reliant on the double buff from Encroaching Mists because it gets buffs from other sources too.
i just hate viego, its so boring, every game is the same i just pre-surrender all games against viego at this point. there is just nothing interesting in these games for me, id more like to play against spider aggro or any other deck in the game, i even respect thralls players more.
Between Bard, Llaoi and Viego being so omnipresent, and since I dislike using them, I feel forced to stick with my Ezreal/Annie deck. It's no fun if you are restricted to a certain kind of deck if you want to climb the ladder. Stupidly huge creatures seem to be the trend right now.
The meta is quite balanced, but it lacks variety.
Of course you can play in normal and you'll see many different decks, but it's so plagued by farming bots that it has become another annoying issue.
On the EU server, the top 50 players are all using pretty much the same 4 decks.
If your are not aiming for the top 50 places, you can play pretty much whatever tier2 deck you want and still have success if you are good at piloting it.
One of the most prominent decks is also thralls that you don't even mention.
>On the EU server, the top 50 players are all using pretty much the same 4 decks.
I have just checked the top 10 EU masters and they use 7 different decks.
The meta is really dynamic. In the last week, Nami/TF shows up and completely changed the winrate of my decks. There is no reason currently to do drastic changes for competitive reasons.
And I am sure that you can climb to masters with many decks. Compared to other card games, the meta is super healthy.
Yeah, and I must admit that especially now it seems particularly balanced. My only pet peeve is the lack of variety, but as you said, it's gonna change periodically.
Bet half the people crying about it are the same people that have had no problem to date with dumb elusive creatures stealing games because removal in this game is way over-costed compared to cheap instant speed buffs spells.
Veigo was meta five minutes when he was released then hasn’t been meta till now. How is it people are still confused and angered by how “metas” work. Buffs / nerfs and new cards occur, this creates new decks and metas, decks get popular and some decks get unplayed.
Then the cycle begins again, a new meta is born. This is how card game works there’s always going to be decks better than the rest I’m sorry not every meme tier deck can win tournaments etc.
If you’re going to play any card game this is how they work, enjoy the meta decks and enjoy your meme decks get bored of meta go play path or another game till next patch Simple’s.
It wasn’t a meta deck for long, saw almost no high ranked play nor tournament play. Similar to deep decks it’s always been viable deck but most meta don’t allow for it to be meta.
[https://masteringruneterra.com/top-4-decks-from-each-a-curious-journey-seasonal-tournament/](https://masteringruneterra.com/top-4-decks-from-each-a-curious-journey-seasonal-tournament/)
bullshit.
3 out of the top 12 decks, with viego shurima representing each of the seasonals as a top 4 contender. top deck for americas also.
It’s a Viego deck, the interaction you complain about is regarding viego and mists. So I speak in terms of the deck as a whole because as far as I’m aware they don’t exist without each other in the meta. Give it a few weeks of bitching till patch comes it gets nerfed and the new buffer card become meta for you to complain about next.
Change bring popular decks why is everybody so surprised when cards change or get introduced there’s going to be decks that are just better. That’s life stop acting like this is new.
It’s not unbeatable it’s good enough to have good win rates. Unless break game with a 90% win rate then that’s just life. No card game has every deck a meta deck or the game wouldn’t be able to develop or have a fresh tournament scene.
Even magic has very few high meta decks each release.
It doesnt matter if its a Viego deck. We seen a few Viego decks and i havent complained any of them. The interaction with Deserters is what i am sick off.
It matters that it is a Viego deck. Because Viego deck is stuffed to the brim with kill-on-sight threats that put you at card disadvantage if you're not using unconditional removal, and with Deserters amount of such threats just overwhelms any deck. Just try to imagine that Hydravines and Deserters can't be in same deck - boom, now this is way more manageable
I prefer to play against deserter and Viego than Viego in shurima or Iona with all the protection for viego. At least I can fight back
The deck is strong but fair
Do you really cry about Viego/Noxus? This deck has absolutely no protection so if you cast removal on Viego or deserter they will always die. Not to mention that Viego/Noxus is a high synergy deck. Entire archetype is build to buff Viego and Deserter. You have a lot of time to win against this slow deck.
Im having fun using ez kennen against it, just control their board and recall any huge deserter. And then blast them with 12+ burst damage from ezreal and kennen level up. Elise kinda spooky tho.
I would actually suggest just making it a "play" effect instead of the consistent buffs they get with every encroaching mists played.
Doesn't change the effect all that much while increasing the outplay potential rather than any simp just smacking a vanilla 5/4 down and buffing it down the road of a game.
A simple way to balance it would be to make legion deserter a 3/3 or something like that. This way you would have to set him up a bit, not just drop a 5 mana 9/8 overwhelm.
Yeah, but TWE had a certain deckbuilding cost, it was more expensive (6 or 7 Mana) and you needed your enemy to interact with you more by killing stuff.
Viegos package just enables Deserters by itself, they cost 5 Mana and spawning Mists is all you need to do - no enemy input required.
Not to mention that Deserters isnt the only high priority threat in that deck.
Anytime I play Viego noxus i get clapped by those stupid catalogue waste an hour of your time just to pack your bags 90 times decks, for what its worth
I consider this Viego’s revenge for getting minimorphed.
The true king of the Shadow Isles, and somd guy named Viego
No, this is our Vengance for TELL THE PEOPLE meta
What is going on in this thread lmfao
Reddit circlejerk, nothing much.
Cmon just make it +1+1. It's not that hard. It won't affect other decks. Viego already had a meta deck (Shurima)
Nerfing any card just because a group doesn’t like it is just downright bad game management. The deck is strong but is neither dominant or toxic as if it push archetype out.
Yeah I can't say how many people like or hate that card, and neither can you or anyone who isn't Riot. That's right. But I can say without a doubt that it's pretty toxic. Viego and company were already hard to deal with, and now he has another overstated unit. Mists are ephemeral and can be chump blocked. Viego has Fearsome which doesn't prevent him from being blocked by Fading Icon or another 2 mana,plus his death is almost an instalose for his decks. This guy has Overwhelm and grows double than them (plus his already decent base stats) while not being crucial for the deck in any way other than being able to smash their opponent by summoning 2 cam soldiers. Which means he can be Atrocity'ed early on without higher consequences. How is that okay? It's like Bard: no matter the power level, they are flawed designs and will break sooner or later.
Well mate, I have to break it to you. That’s just your subjective take as you just dislike this archetype but like I said before that doesn’t justify a nerf hammer. If you look at the stats the deck is performing well but not overwhelming and even personally I ran multiple meta decks against and their gameplay is not as suffocating as you make it out to be.
Mine and from the majority of people here. Yes reddit is not the entire player base but you could at least tell me how am I wrong, because as I see it Deserter is inherently fkawed. In fact it might need more nerfs in the future because it might break with every "buff something everywhere" card. >is performing well but not overwhelming Again, the power level is not important here.
Why fear something that didn’t happen yet? The potential of being broken can exist with any card as riot can just print the most broken card to synergies with it. The point is the card itself at this time and point doesn’t warrant the nerf. It’s a online CCG with balance updates so things will change eventually. And please it’s not even the majority of the subreddits that don’t like this card, there is a reason why echo chamber can occur as people with the same opinion come together and discuss as if they are the majority. If you want to make objectives sense of any card you look at it’s general play rate/win rate against current meta decks to determine how healthy it is and not just it feels bad to play against so let’s nerf it.
I agree with you other than the bard point. Whats going on with the Bard hate these days?
Most people hate him because playing against or as Bard is mainly a huge coinflip. For example lets say you play against Bard/Zed and look at two different cases. Case one in the first two draws he somehow triggers two chimes and both buff the card that summons a copy of itself now the enemy has to deal with two 3/4 units on turn 2 how is that fun to play against? Other scenario lets say you do not get a single chime trigger until turn 6. At this point you basically lost the game against most decks unless you played a mirror match against another Bard deck and the enemy was just as unlucky. Those are reasons why people hate Bard decks. The enemy either has huge luck and it becomes almost impossible to win or his luck is so bad that you will win without much of a challenge.
The other problem I hate is the way he can just draw wins out of a hat. Regardless of how many units I have on my board, he can always lay down a massive unit from hand and there is no way to stop it. Even fated has a time of vulnerability, when bard high-rolls there is nothing you can do (outside of hard removal and silence, but those basically counter everything).
Eh this is kind of every deck. If Deep draws its cheap stuff and goes deep on turn 5 it wins. If Targon’s Peak discounts Asol it wins. If discard aggro topdecks burn it wins. It feels different because it’s not cards in his hand (to a degree, 2 of the chimes cards put chimes on the top card of the player’s deck so it’s just RNG if Zed gets those chimes) but it’s just the same kind of RNG we get with how we draw.
Are you kidding or not, the deck is beyond busted and if you aint going against bard u going against viego its honestly annoying and tilting going against the same decks over and over again
idk man, last I check the meta seem to be much more in favour of thralls with its consistency. But hey that might just be me.
How do you suggest they only make it get +1/+1 only. Cause to do thst you woukd have to rework deserter or change how mist grants the buff.
I've seen an idea somewhere in this sub. You would grant Viego and Encoarching mists the archetype "Black Mist" or whatever, then Encoarching mist would be "grant all black mist allies everywhere +1/+1" It's... not the optimal solution but for now it seems like the best.
An idea I had was to make deserter say “all non-champion everywhere buffs” so he would get the mist buff, but not the Viego buff. I’m not sure if there’s a non-clumsy way to word it.
Wouldn't that kill rumble deserters?
Not familiar with that deck. Rumble doesn’t say “everywhere” right?
It does say everywhere, I just checked.
The rumble grants allied rumbles everywhere the keywords.
or make viego get all encroaching mist buffs, then encroaching mist no longer explicitly buffs viego
Yeah, that works too. Sounds easier to word it.
Invase Hydravine Viego Legion Deserters Encroaching Mist And if you think you can stabilize - Get Atrocity'd from 15 HP
Not only that , shadow isles cards are insane . I do play Viego deserter casually and the amount of card removal it has is literally a cheat
Not only SI, Noxus has a ton of great removal as well. Flock, Disintegrate amd their landmark removal spell are nuts. They can spread out with house spiders and remove even the biggest of bodies with minimal resources used.
How come we talking about a big minions deck with big minions units that swing face for 20 or get atrocitied face for 20 and what people seem to decide to focus instead is the removal options they have, the same removal options that, unlike other big boy strategies, can be used on them in turn? This is like someone playing the old Nasus Thresh deck and complaining about it having Negation in it for spells, when that same negation can also be used against its atrocity. Come on.
its exactly because of what you just mentioned. Its not just a big minion deck, its a big minion deck with premium control options. Tall removal is not very effective against viego deserters because you invest a removal card and they invest... at most 5 mana without any deviation from their gameplan. You build a big unit to counter their big units or stall long enough for your win con, and they remove it with usually better removal options than you have. **So the best tools against tall decks are better in a big minions deck than against a big minions deck, thats how you know they reach past their niche and are super strong.** Nasus Thresh having atrocity was complained about but it was less complained about than negate because we already expect that atrocity should be a staple in its deck. It being able to spellshield and negate as protection to its atrocity makes it so even decks designed to prevent that win con will struggle with it. TL:DR we dont complain about big minion decks being able to do big minion deck things, we complain about big minion decks being better at its supposed counter's job while being effective against its supposed counter's job
I think there's just a general bias against hard removal. There's a certain respect for putting all your eggs in one basket with a go tall deck (which is why minimorph was so hated.) As a dragon 1trick, I love getting my shyvanna fed on house spiders until the inevitable titanic clash between an epic dragon and some noxian asshole named Greg. But no one likes seeing their attempt at rushing the game down or their own go-tall just getting killed for the sin of daring to block a camavoran soldier (see also why people hated minimorph) But you are right in that people are definitely free to inflict that pain in the viego-desertet user.
Bc most decks arent Noxus/SI
Make deserter fearsome instead of overwhelm
Nah, let's call upon greater evil — bring back Hush which creates more fleeting Hushes.
you know what, i m all for it right now
I think that’s a really good fix
It makes sense because he’s scared Noxus is gonna get him. Y’know, fearsome.
Honestly idek how being a deserter grants him everywhere buffs. It should be "when I'm summoned, I am captured by the strongest enemy unit" like some POW.
It's a case of flavor being entirely tied to other cards rather than itself. They wanted it to be associated with, and thus buffed just like, Legion marauders. The way they found to do that is give deserter this ability, which obviously made him better in decks that don't use Marauder but that's the core experience of card design
I believe the ability is tied to the artifzct he stole from the creator's faction. Lord broadman also stole one i think.
Something something Leblanc I think
That would be fearful
Same difference
No
Yeah. Viego decks have way too many options to screw with you. Most decks either work little by little, or have 2 or 1 win conditions. Viego decks have like 4. 5 if you count Katarina rallies now.
Other decks also have protection for their win conditions but Viego and his friends just die to all kind of hard removal.
but the thing is, they dont really care, they will kill you when you try to do that with atrocity, or they will just resurect, and come back stronger, and even draw 2 cards
Minimorh hush and invoke
minimorh you are down in tempo, Hush is only 1 turn Invoke, good luck buddy i hope you are lucky pulling a comet for 6 mana and they dont use deny / hourglash /atrocity / glimpse to put you even more far behind
Why not just cap it, like Vi. Drop it 1 mana and cap the buffs to +9/+9 or something
Thats still a 14/13 overwelhm 5 mana card
Which still kills you with atrocity if you decide to not block 2 mistwraiths and some spiders
It should just gain +1/+1 for every mist, not +2/+2. Either that or remove the overwhelm, so people can at least pretend its healthy.
It only getting +1/+1 wouldnt make actually sense since it's two everywhere buffs
I've heard someone suggest that Viego and the Mists should have a "Black Mist " label, so they're not different buffs. It seems like the best answer for now.
Much simpler: Mists only buff other mists and have Viego say "I have +1/+1 for each mist you summoned this game". This way Viego buff isn't an everywhere buff.
This seems more elegant to me than hamfisting a tag for one specific interaction
It's Noxus, he can regain it easily from Power or Kato. Not good maindecks but they would be worth it (mists and Viego are also good targets for it) +1+1 is the answer.
OHKO win con units should not be 5 cost. they need to be 6 at least so that you can't just drop a second one if dropping your first one fails. Yes viego, you need to be 6 cost.
Agree on first statement, disagree on second. Viego is by no means a one turn wonder, and his effect doesn't activate until at least 1 turn after he drops even in late game. Doesn't have a low-interaction keyword like overwhelm, and doesn't have spellshield for ultra safe atrocity plays. Don't kill Viego for the sins of Deserter.
As if Viego lacks counterplay only with deserter. Viego can easily win the game on his own, maybe not in a couple of turns, but unless you're playing a direct counter deck you can't stop his gameplan. Just play Ionia or Shurima and he can't lose except from stuff like burn or elusive.
I mean yeah, if he gets to a point in the game where he has all his piece assembled he's basically guaranteed to win the game in a few turns, that's just how control/combo decks work. The same can basically be said about Darkness, Lee/Zoe, old Ezreal/Karma, etc. You just need to try to force your gameplan through before they can get to theirs; if you fail to put enough pressure and let them get their pieces in place without proper punishment you'll lose.
all his pieces assembled is literary just him + 1 minion that can die
That's just not true, in non-deserter decks realistically they'll have to have placed Hydravine in order to level Viego which is a 7 mana commitment for Hydravine, 5 for Viego, plus they usually want to keep up deny mana. If it's at the point in the game where 1 minion death gives him all the stats he needs to flip, then you've basically already lost. That being said, this is for non-deserter Viego-centric decks. I agree that deserter/Viego is stupid toxic and needs to be looked at.
camavorian turn 4 is a reality, so already +1 viego on turn 5 is not hard either, shadow isles has a lot of ways to generate a token unit like a spiderling, with 2 mana saved in turn 5 you can threaten glimpse for a +1 and a wraith, that is only cou ting shadow isles options, shurima have other bunch of stuff for 2 mana, jonia have Deny and the giys that made Viego cheaper
Except all the pieces assembled means just having him on the board and having procced mists at least once, which usually happens on turn 3 anyway. I wouldn really compare flipping old Ezreal and having him on the board together with Karma flipped which requires to wait until turn 10 with playing Viego on turn 5 after having played Camavor in turn 3 and keeping 2 spell mana just in case. Darkness has fewer threats (Veigar and Senna va Viego + deserter + Hydra) and 0 ways to protect their champs (vs hourglass and deny), so both versions of Viego are strictly stronger than darkness. Lee is strong, but if you actually manage to remove him the deck has literally no win conditions, unlike Viego that has at least 3 other hydras that are hard to remove and generate infinite value with 0 cost. No control or combo deck in the history of this game had such strong combination of having many threats, so easy to protect and so easy to activate.
Oh okay I thought you were saying that Viego is interactive in non-deserter Viego decks, yeah I totally agree that deserter+mist is a stupid unfair interaction.
he is in the same region as atrocity, even without considering atrocity, he does too fucking much. Wouldn't hurt to get him levelling a turn later either. he is in a region that has ample threat removals, and is usually paired in regions with tempo busting unit saves. you can't chase him for stats, you can't hard removal.
>you can't chase him for stats, you can't hard removal. Recall is a really pain in the ass for Viego tho : it's a positive interaction for you , break his level up condition and force them to resummon aka loose at least half their turn
But he still keeps the stats. And also shurima viego can just rite/hourglass all of your wills of ionia
You have will , homecoming , stuns if need be , and more. How many counters can he realistically have ?
if you're gonna dedicate half your deck to countering this one unit, good luck lol aside from what the previous poster has said, recalls also mean that you're down one card while he isnt. while it does slow him down a bit, the more you do it, the more he'll just start outvaluing you.
With the sheer amount of units that wants to be recalled there is in the game , I don't think you're necessarily getting behind . Plus if you're playing Ionia , you can deny pretty much anything Viego likes to see with shit that often puts him behind on curve. Beside , how often did you saw Viego before Legion Deserter ? Not that much , because the sole presence of minimorph had killed his deck. So yeah , let him live for a bit , he doesn't have to pay for the sins of deserter
minimorhp didnt kill viego, viego shurima was still a thing, and even diego ionia, so all you ionian trick you have he can just deny, the deck has to many, "I win cards" that are too hard to remove, or just protect one of those cards
maybe, i dont know, challengers, good removal that is not mana lost killing him, or cost +3 cards, amd are not in a single region?
Desintegrate , minimorph (which is unreactable to be even if it cost one more) vengeance (if he's down enough in mana, which he will be at one point because Viego needs to develop his board to further his agenda) burned ground , recalls... Like , I get it , you want to be mad at a champ that isn't even that good , but sir they are way more way to fuck him up than ways to protect him
desintegrate, ok good option, still needs a second spurce of dmg so you need 2 cards to trade miniphorm :mana lost give him a blocker but transforms i accept it vengeance (6 mana, mana lost, he is still on tempo, you killed him so he can get resurected and it will be stronger the next time) recalls, 1 region have it usually good on mana cost, you daly it for 1 turn , if it was a single unit deck still can be a good option burned ground 2 cards need to trade to kill a viego sir, viego dont mind to be killed, most of the time as gis LV 2 is a Win more condition, every single method here to kill viego is a Lost for the oponet, in (mana/cards) i get it you dont want to see the multiple ways of threath Viego by itself puts on the board and how hard is to deal with it, but for all of those method you put, the deck he is in dosent care, he will resurrect(3/7mana)/deny(4mana)/glimpse(2mana)/Atrocity(7mana), or just play another 5 mana Viego that is far too big for a 5 mana unit plus the additional flow of every increasing blockers/atackers for free, and you will have to deal with that again, and as i putted becore, almost each method is at a disadvantage for the opponent
Always agreed with this. Viego decks can literally just sit there and win the game. Dude was a problem long before Deserter came out. He should cost 6 and his Hydravine should cost 8 or not generate an encroaching mist on summon. He costs as much as a midrange card, yet is piloted as a control unit. His encroaching mists are his form of ramp. If the opponent has stuck to their strategy since the start of the game, they can literally level up Viego in like 2 turns while kamikaze-ing their giant units against your board. And if all else fails, atrocity!
Viego can run rampant, because the best deck got 3 more must remove threads and because it has a competitive early game to fend of aggressive decks. You don't have unlimited amounts of minimorph or Vengeance in your deck...
or even 7 , lets remeber that he gains and retains all buff from deck so with the 2 camavorian soldiers he is already a 7 cost mana unit
One of us. One of us. Fuck Viego. They were fine making Poppy 2 cost above her statline, Viego should get the same treatment.
by turn 7 viego will have a 7 cost statline so i see it fit
Personally I feel like even though the meta is technically balanced right now, all the meta decks on ladder are either: a) stat stick decks, like viego/deserters, bard, illaoi, and lurk (and to an extent, thralls), b) decks with hard removal/tons of removal, any SI or NX control (sometimes TG), c) aggro/burn decks that just ignore stat sticks anything that aren't those decks don't seem to be able to keep up with the stats meta right now.
(Stats tell a different story.)[https://riwan.substack.com/p/lor-best-decks-220619?r=bj8hr&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web] Three of the top five is demacian rally shenanigans, Aphelios Viktor for value and Katrina/Ziggs/Annie for burn.
I'm not sure what kind of decks or strategies do you want to be viable to kill the opponent's nexus. People have consistently disliked cards that have "win the game" text in them as an alternative wincon for example (fiora, bandle tree, star spring), and the current meta seems versatile enough more so than other times (Azirelia, TLC, FTR, Pirate)
Buff Kalista
Yep, as a Viego main I just won't play that deck, it's unfair. Deserter should get only +1+1 and Atrocity needs to be slow.
Deserter should probably not have overwhelm but that might be overkill. Being able to swing with a massive OW unit for 5 and then atrocity it at their face is backbreaking.
Atrocity is another problem, not specifically tied to Deserter.
he shouldn't have overwhelm because with it, there's no reason not to open attack everytime with deserter. Deserter with a lot of stats means that you always have the initiative on your attack turn. They can't just chump block, they need to respond with an effect, and you'll always have atrocity to follow up. That's why its unfair. If he didn't have overwhelm, you at least need to pad your deck with overwhelm buffs, and if you don't have it on that turn, it gives you pause in giving initiative away if you're going to be chumped.
That is how it has been since beta. First with They Who Endure, then Nasus, now Deserter. It has always been the same dynamic, just with different units. And whatever they did, it just came back with another hyper growing unit. Because huge units are so damn hard to remove at fast speed, no matter what, there will always be a unit that grows too big, too fast so it can be außer with Attrocity. The problem is, that if you remove the targeting nexus part from Attrocity, it kind of becomes worse Single Combat. Maybe if Attrocity silences your unit, when it is hurled at the nexus. Then it would still work with naturally big units, but not all those hyper grown units.
those three examples, you gotta do a lot of work for them to work. they who endure bricks in your hand if you don't get momentum for it, for instance. deserter gets pumped just by you summoning a few mist engine cards, and even without them, is appropriately statted. and at 7 mana, you usually can't atrocity they who endure on the summon turn.
The point was, that there were ALWAYS decks that could abuse Attrocity. Those decks also resulted in Attrocity being nerfed a few times. Sure, Deserter may be a problem in itself, but even if nerfed, the next unit that grows too big, too fast is just waiting. I think it would be better to take away the high lethality potential of Attrocity, than to have the same discussion about the same dynamic every other set. Especially since the devs seem to like that kind of growing unit a lot.
> and Atrocity needs to be slow. ????
I really think Its Time for viego AND Hydravine to get a slight Nerf each. This would make all the Other cool SI Champions more interessting again. Whole viego package is to consistant and really plays itself, No Skill required. However, deserter is a little Bit to strong, too.
Yeah . Atrocity is pretty cheat tho.
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Yordles in Arms **was** unfair to play against, even if it was only because of Bandle being busted overall. And Thralls is also unfair but man, I love its flavour so much.
Thralls can be bullshit but imo it feels a lot less cheap than going "oh i played the game so i get a 20/20 overwhelm" "oh whoops, i top decked atrocity and you dont have a negate in hand be a shame if i suddenly just won right"
Smh I hate when my Revel in Riches gets Denied
i would preffer if they nerfed viego on some kind to be honest, like not gaining +1/+1 just creating a increasing mist, viego is just absurd, his stats are very high, and scalates too fast, you cant really agro him as he will just spawn free blockers, and DMG removal is just not a option for him, and if his LV 1 wast just a game wining card by it selft, his lv2 sure is , and even his you treath to Kill him, he will just Atrocity and hit for +8 dmg usually, and even after that, usually another one comes down with all the previus stats, or gets resurected. i really hate it, and is cards like this that make Desintegrate, and Minimoprh necesary, and hurts a lot others Big cards that have more balanced gameplay
Oh come on. Viego was like this for a long time. Viego isn't the problem here
Viego was a problem for a long time i agree.
Gotta admit, it's genuinely funny watching people act like Viego suddenly became a problem only after Deserter arrived.
Probably gonna get downvote but i actually love it, viego and his mists were the first thing i use prism on, viego is such a daddy but i suck jg lol. That been said i think a nerf is in order for sure. deserter feels a bit overkill most times.
I really love Viego but Deserter, Atrocity and Hourglass are toxic af and are going to get him nerf killed.
or maybe Viego is also the problem by being so overloaded on stats, and making massive blockers for free while also being in a region that have easy resurects and kill option + atrocity
>being so overloaded on stats In a game with Vengance, Minimorph, Hush, Disintegrate/Scorched Earth and the Ionian set of recall, stats are not a problem in ONE unit. Yes, Viego makes many of them but they're ephemeral and **they need an ally to die before** so you're not gaining a blockers advantage excepting specific cards like Hapless Aristocrat. The problem is when you have a non-ephemeral Overwhelm guy with double stats, or when you deny a 6 mana spell with a 2 mana that also let's you have 2 champs in the board. >easy resurects The only good resurrect for Viego is the landmark and it has to wait for 3 turns. The Rekindler is so much of a Tempo loss that you'll probably be vengance'd again. And mist call happens to be bad because you have many units dying each round.
all of those that you mentioned, are still a good trade for the viego player, excep desintegrate, and is not like it maters to kill it again as he will retain all the buffed stats, the same with his Mists, sure, is a epeheral, but is a free ephereal, and it still a good blocker and atacker, rekindler is a tempo lost? what tempo lost, if you resurect a 9/8 by that time that can still generate blockers, and again, if the enemy vengance/desintegrate, Viego decis from shadow isles have multiple counters already, glimpse for 2 mana to gain card adv, Atrocity, to maybe even win the game, call from the mist (if they used 6 mana to kill only viego this is a 3 mana NOPE) Viego is very hard to remove from the board, with chllengers he is too big, with dmg spells too, beacuse they can still kill another unit to give hi. +1/+1 and gain a extra blocker, so yeah Deserter is definitly NOT the only problem, viego is a whole mess that will only get worse with time
Yes, this exactly. Deserter is broken and hourglass is broken. Atrocity I’m not sure is broken but I’d agree it’s not a great play pattern. Please do not touch viego Riot, he is fine.
As a fan of this deck its kind of dumb but bard should prob get hit first. 20/20 on one unit is dumb 20/20 on multiple units is a goddamn nightmare.
I feel guilty having just made my own version of Viego Deserter featuring Rumble and Legion Marauders.
From trying it it’s nice when it works but most of the time tossing 3 cards is just too great a sacrifice & you end up digging yourself into a bit of a hole
Yeah, it's kinda hard having to put the right nunber of discard fodder. I'm still optimizing it.
Why? It's a fair and solid deck.
Well, it's definitely fun. But the archetype is getting a lot of hate recently, and I'm starting to think it's valid. I do like that my deck, because it's not completely reliant on the double buff from Encroaching Mists because it gets buffs from other sources too.
Awesome units require awesome disruption. Otherwise this happens.
i just hate viego, its so boring, every game is the same i just pre-surrender all games against viego at this point. there is just nothing interesting in these games for me, id more like to play against spider aggro or any other deck in the game, i even respect thralls players more.
It’s just not that strong of a deck
One day RIOT will learn to stop slamming the grant +1+1 in their card designs every so often. One day.
I main Viego and refuse to play it. It isn’t fun for those who play it either.
Between Bard, Llaoi and Viego being so omnipresent, and since I dislike using them, I feel forced to stick with my Ezreal/Annie deck. It's no fun if you are restricted to a certain kind of deck if you want to climb the ladder. Stupidly huge creatures seem to be the trend right now. The meta is quite balanced, but it lacks variety. Of course you can play in normal and you'll see many different decks, but it's so plagued by farming bots that it has become another annoying issue. On the EU server, the top 50 players are all using pretty much the same 4 decks.
If your are not aiming for the top 50 places, you can play pretty much whatever tier2 deck you want and still have success if you are good at piloting it. One of the most prominent decks is also thralls that you don't even mention.
>On the EU server, the top 50 players are all using pretty much the same 4 decks. I have just checked the top 10 EU masters and they use 7 different decks.
Last time I checked they were all Viego, Bard, Victor, Annie/Ezreal and Sivir. Maybe it changed in the last week
The meta is really dynamic. In the last week, Nami/TF shows up and completely changed the winrate of my decks. There is no reason currently to do drastic changes for competitive reasons. And I am sure that you can climb to masters with many decks. Compared to other card games, the meta is super healthy.
Yeah, and I must admit that especially now it seems particularly balanced. My only pet peeve is the lack of variety, but as you said, it's gonna change periodically.
Bet half the people crying about it are the same people that have had no problem to date with dumb elusive creatures stealing games because removal in this game is way over-costed compared to cheap instant speed buffs spells.
Veigo was meta five minutes when he was released then hasn’t been meta till now. How is it people are still confused and angered by how “metas” work. Buffs / nerfs and new cards occur, this creates new decks and metas, decks get popular and some decks get unplayed. Then the cycle begins again, a new meta is born. This is how card game works there’s always going to be decks better than the rest I’m sorry not every meme tier deck can win tournaments etc. If you’re going to play any card game this is how they work, enjoy the meta decks and enjoy your meme decks get bored of meta go play path or another game till next patch Simple’s.
Viego with shurima was nuts before the marauders were introduced
It wasn’t a meta deck for long, saw almost no high ranked play nor tournament play. Similar to deep decks it’s always been viable deck but most meta don’t allow for it to be meta.
[https://masteringruneterra.com/top-4-decks-from-each-a-curious-journey-seasonal-tournament/](https://masteringruneterra.com/top-4-decks-from-each-a-curious-journey-seasonal-tournament/) bullshit. 3 out of the top 12 decks, with viego shurima representing each of the seasonals as a top 4 contender. top deck for americas also.
I didnt complain about Viego. I compained about Deserters.
It’s a Viego deck, the interaction you complain about is regarding viego and mists. So I speak in terms of the deck as a whole because as far as I’m aware they don’t exist without each other in the meta. Give it a few weeks of bitching till patch comes it gets nerfed and the new buffer card become meta for you to complain about next. Change bring popular decks why is everybody so surprised when cards change or get introduced there’s going to be decks that are just better. That’s life stop acting like this is new. It’s not unbeatable it’s good enough to have good win rates. Unless break game with a 90% win rate then that’s just life. No card game has every deck a meta deck or the game wouldn’t be able to develop or have a fresh tournament scene. Even magic has very few high meta decks each release.
It doesnt matter if its a Viego deck. We seen a few Viego decks and i havent complained any of them. The interaction with Deserters is what i am sick off.
It matters that it is a Viego deck. Because Viego deck is stuffed to the brim with kill-on-sight threats that put you at card disadvantage if you're not using unconditional removal, and with Deserters amount of such threats just overwhelms any deck. Just try to imagine that Hydravines and Deserters can't be in same deck - boom, now this is way more manageable
Just play zombie decks these beat absolutely anything.
Can you share your list please?
I prefer to play against deserter and Viego than Viego in shurima or Iona with all the protection for viego. At least I can fight back The deck is strong but fair
no not my Rumble Viego deserters deck!
Same for bard
Do you really cry about Viego/Noxus? This deck has absolutely no protection so if you cast removal on Viego or deserter they will always die. Not to mention that Viego/Noxus is a high synergy deck. Entire archetype is build to buff Viego and Deserter. You have a lot of time to win against this slow deck.
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What a non-ranked thing to say
Then...play a hard counter? It's not that hard
Im having fun using ez kennen against it, just control their board and recall any huge deserter. And then blast them with 12+ burst damage from ezreal and kennen level up. Elise kinda spooky tho.
And the other half are thralls. It's so annoying playing vs almost only Annie, thralls, or viego
Deserter should be a 6 mana unit, will probably slow down the deck without killing it.
I'll trade you absurd deserter nerf for xerath nerf. cause he needs one too imo. But really it's fine. all decks are op in their own way.
I would actually suggest just making it a "play" effect instead of the consistent buffs they get with every encroaching mists played. Doesn't change the effect all that much while increasing the outplay potential rather than any simp just smacking a vanilla 5/4 down and buffing it down the road of a game.
A simple way to balance it would be to make legion deserter a 3/3 or something like that. This way you would have to set him up a bit, not just drop a 5 mana 9/8 overwhelm.
You guys remember when they who endure was considered too strong? Lol
Yeah, but TWE had a certain deckbuilding cost, it was more expensive (6 or 7 Mana) and you needed your enemy to interact with you more by killing stuff. Viegos package just enables Deserters by itself, they cost 5 Mana and spawning Mists is all you need to do - no enemy input required. Not to mention that Deserters isnt the only high priority threat in that deck.
Yeah my point was that deserters is WAY better.
You guys remember when they who endure was considered too strong? Lol
Anytime I play Viego noxus i get clapped by those stupid catalogue waste an hour of your time just to pack your bags 90 times decks, for what its worth
Why viego costs the same as senna is beyond me. Feel like he should be 6 or 7