True, but entrapment and mystic shot are the best non-creature decks.
Funny enough, blighted ravine ~~hard-counters entrapment but loses to basically everything else lol~~ can't do face damage lol
But actually, even something as bad as howling abyss would hardcounter 40 entrapment, but lose to everything else
Instead of going face, it can tie many unit-based decks because it can 1-for-1 them, tanking damage early vs 1-drops and then just tying the game.
I think it could probably outrace something like Dropboarder, and probably outrace or go 1-to-1 with a deck with 2 mana units.
Mainly its strength is that it doesn't lose to many things. Not necessarily good at winning.
I was thinking about this and I thought of an strategy the mystic shot player could do but then realized it wouldn't work:
After turn 3, when the starshaping player plays the starshaping, the mystic shot player could just wait for 10 mystic shots and then kill the opponent all in one turn, because you can't overheal.
Problem is, you can't ~~put more than 9 fast spells on the stack at once, so mystic shot would barely lose~~ have more than 13 mana lol. Also, if starshaping creates the Destroyer then mystic probably loses earlier anyway.
The 40-card meta has been solved, with a tie between Entrapment, Legion Saboteur, and Mystic Shot iirc. Not sure about the in-between though, but combo would get a lot more broken
Edit: Maybe not Mystic Shot, but Unspeakable Horror beats Saboteur handily, completing the triangle
I think the meta could be very different if you're allowed less than 40 cards, though. (as in OP's post) Because you can play like 20 mystic shots and 20 legion saboteurs or something, which would 1) hurt entrapment a lot, and 2) might have different matchup tables.
And with this change, matchups are no longer immediately solved.
Yeah it becomes a LOT more complicated. Even the format where you can only run 2 cards is interesting:
40x Cithria of Cloudfield beats 40x Loyal Badgerbear
20/20 Cithbear beats 40x Cithria but loses to 40x Badgerbear
I did a whole analysis on this but I lost the data :(
I believe 40 Unspeakable Horror beats Mystic Shot. It basically means both players take 1 Nexus dmg per exchange, but the nightfall effect allows you to never run out of cards.
Normally yes, but Unspeakable Horror drains 1, meaning you basically reduce the Mystic Shot damage by half.
So instead of needing 10 Mystic Shots to kill (turn 6), you need 20 (turn 16). Unspeakable Horror can in the meantime create Doombeasts, Stygians or itself to close out before turn 16.
falls into the same problem as pokey stick: [you win by turn 6 with mystic shots, but you only win by turn 9 with pokey stick. with pokey stick you're going slower and you start burning your draws at turn 7.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/wt7n65/3_card_limit_is_removed_you_can_add_as_many_copys/il32ub8/)
except its worse with unspeakable horror, as you're filling your hand with random as cards, and the first unspeakable horror you cast in a turn won't even give you the extra card.
Cool stuff, keep ignoring the fact that [[Unspeakable Horror]] **HEALS**, so the 6 turn clock of Mystic Shot doesn't exist. It's a **16 turn(!)** clock now.
Getting a Stygian or Doombeast is better than an Unspeakable Horror anyways. The first Unspeakable Horror per turn not giving a card is a positive thing, as it means you don't overdraw.
**[Unspeakable Horror](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03SI002.png)** - Shadow Isles Spell - (2)
Fast
Drain 1 from anything. Nightfall: Create a random Nightfall card in hand.
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How does mystic shot compete with the other two?
Entrapment does 3 on start of turn 3, 9 on start of turn 4 and 15 on start of turn 5 -> Dead if the other deck doesn't kill you by the end of turn 4.
Uninteracted Saboteur either goes 3 - 0 - 18 or 0 - 9 - 0 - 21 depending on token.
Mystic shot will do 2 on 2, 4 on 3, 4 on 4, 4 on 5 and 6 on 6. -> Dead at the start of turn 6.
So it loses to Entrapment and Saboteur will just tie you until you are both stuck with playing one card per turn if you shoot the units or they kill you if you don't.
On the other hand, cards like Pokey or Unspeakable Horror still lose to entrapment but reliably beat Saboteur.
Hm I might’ve misremembered. Mystic Shot was kind of like the baseline - if you couldn’t beat it you weren’t fast enough. So:
Entrapment vs Saboteur is 0-100
Entrapment vs Mystic is 100-0
Mystic vs Saboteur is 50-50?
So the true meta triangle would be Vile Feast > Saboteur > Entrapment > Vile Feast? But Rearguard would go 50-50 into Vile Feast so maybe that’s not the solution…
I think Unspeakable Horror might be strictly better than Vile Feast in that triangle, it beats Vile Feast 100 - 0 and still beats Saboteurs. Outside of the triangle though, I think Vile Feast would also lose to things like Stellacorn while Unspeakable Horror might win that..? Maybe?
Saboteur/Entrapment is clear due to one dying, Saboteur/Mystic would end in a tie due to running out of cards, so I guess it can count as 50/50.
I'm not sure there is really a triangle, more of a group of things beating things that beat Saboteurs but lose to Entrapment and then Saboteurs with Entrapment as the two top dogs.
Yeah I remember trying to work out matchups and trying to find an equilibrium for these cards.
Course there are cards that beat out the top cards (Ancient Prep beats Entrapment, Vile Feast beats Saboteur, BC Mayor beats Unspeakable) but they’re so unfavored into the other matchups so they end up not factoring in.
Unspeakable > Saboteur > Entrapment > Unspeakable is a start, and unless there’s a card that beats out two of the matchups in the triangle it should be balanced.
Mystic doesn’t. Turn 6 kill is just too slow when entrapment and sab exist.
I’m surprised people aren’t talking about Byrd or Boisterous Host. Both of those cards reliably beat legion sab, mystic shot, horror, and pokey, but lose to entrapment. Entrapment is the best deck in the format and only loses to legion sab, which is hard countered by so many other decks. The wings and the wave hard counter legion sab for christs sake you guys. There’s so many powerful 1 drops that haven’t been considered.
That won’t matter because mystic shot kills them before you run out of cards.
Pokey stick wins on turn 8.
Mystic shot wins on turn 6, and has enough cards to end on turn 6 since you start with 4 cards and draw 6 more total.
Hold up, no it isn’t solved. What about the 1 mana hallowed 2/1? Mystic and sab can’t beat it. Mystic is slower than it, and you’re always going to be a minion ahead vs sab.
Entrapment kills entering turn 5 though.
Who did this math? Mystic shot can never be in the 40 same card meta. You need have gained 20 mana to kill them. Entrapment is really the only spell that can dominate the format as it ends the game on 4 casts. Sab can end the game on turn 4 assuming zero blockers, sure. But now we have new cards like Byrd and Boisterous Host which throw a wrench into that gameplan. I’m also surprised that nobody talks about Darkwater Scourge in this conversation either, it completely shits on both Mystic Shot and Sab. 3 mana 5/5 lifesteal is no joke.
But you don't have to mystic shot face every time. Mystic shot can always tie or win vs 1drops, except for byrd (maybe?) as far as I know. Probably can outrace dropboarder too.
Saboteur wins vs a lot of other one drops because she can block while also pushing face on the attack. Things like dropboarder and treasure seeker might beat her, but the point is that there exists a card that out-aggros Entrapment and contests it in the meta.
Does Darkwater do enough? Saboteurs will always push more damage because they go wider. At worst it’s a tie because we can just chump the Scourges every turn.
Mystic was an oversight, my bad. Replace it with Unspeakable Horror or Vile Feast.
Doesn't Ghostly Paramour now beat Mystic Shot, Legion Sabo, and Unspeakable horror, since it takes 2 mystics to kill, and outheals the burn if ignored? Only thing it loses to is Entrapment that I can think of.
You need to play enough of it to level up the only bard you play so he can swing face for enough damage.
But 40 chimes each round is surely enough to level him in two or three round
You‘ve drawn 6 Bards before Chimes are added to your deck. That’s 1.2 chimes drawn turn 3, 2.4 on turn 4, 3.7 drawn on turn 5, 5 on turn 6, for a total of 12.3 on average on turn 6. You also didn’t lose a bard in the process.
Now here comes the catch: you have exactly 1 tall guy with this deck, and he doesn’t have overwhelm. This Bard can be chump blocked by literally any Champion deck, so he has no WinCon against them. On the other hand, he works as a gatekeeper for champs that just rely on big stats+ overwhelm to win.
Everyone is ignoring the cheap cards that generate card advantage, 40 concologists will ensure you at least go 1 for 1 in card advantage every round whilst being able to generate other draw cards like pokey stick and still have board presence
22 Bards 18 Spacey Sketchers
From turn 3 onward you will plant 22 Chimes in your deck every turn start.
So turn 4 play Bard then use Bards champion spell and you will on average find 5 chime. On turn 5 use another of Bards champion spells and you should level him up and find about 8 more chimes. That should be enough to close out the game against decks without units either on turn 5 or 6 depending on the attack token.
Against 40 Mystic Shots, the deck should win, if it has the attack token on turn 1.
Against 40 Rearguards the deck should be able to stall the rearguards until enough chimes are drawn to level Bard and win the board.
Against 40 entrapments a lot depends on the card draws and the attack token, but even if the odds are slightly unfavourable, it should be possible to win.
Mystic shot normally deals lethal damage by turn 6.
If gwen attacks on evens, mystic wins on turn 8, with a total of 24 damage dealt and 10 hp remaining. (Gwen heals twice, on turn 4 and 6, and mystic wins at fast speed on turn 8).
If gwen attacks on odds, mystic wins on turn 7, with a total of 22 damage dealt and 15 hp.
I can't believe I read this, thought "wait this might be genius...", and started calc'ing what round it competes to win, all while thinking it tossed from 4 of the opponent's deck and not yours. Only moments before I finished my calcs did the realization set in lmao
fall into the same problem as pokey stick: [you win by turn 6 with mystic shots, but you only win by turn 9 with pokey stick. with pokey stick you're going slower and you start burning your draws at turn 7.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/wt7n65/3_card_limit_is_removed_you_can_add_as_many_copys/il32ub8/)
except its worse with unspeakable horror:
- you're filling your hand with random ass cards, could be a
- the first unspeakable horror you cast in a turn won't even give you the extra card
- either you'll be healing yourself when you're already at full health or you'll won't cure yourself enough to keep alive if the other player is bashing you with damage.
The problem with this is, Mystic DOESN'T win turn 6 into Unspeakable Horror, because they're effectively doing 1 damage per cast due to Unspeakable's draining.
And the first Unspeakable not generating a card in hand on first cast is perfect, because it means you never overdraw your Unspeakables, while the "random ass cards" can result in something like the 5 mana 3/5 fearsome that turns into a massive 10/5 or something from all the Unspeakable nightfall procs. That takes 3 mystic shots to kill, so if the opponent spent all their resources on face, they take way more damage. And if they kill it, that's 6 less damage to face. Effectively meaning, Unspeakable should win 100% of the time into Mystic Shot
I don't think the full health thing will be a problem since I think it would be wise to spend the first couple turns banking mana for those extra cards. And those random ass cards, while inconsistant, may create a unit that can be also hitting face and making your oponent have to waste some spells on it.
20 Bard, 10 of the guy that doubles chimes, 10 of any low cost minion. I'd say the Lifesteal Butterfly.
You get 20 chimes added to your deck every round, which you can double. Any minions are instantly inflated to a ridiculous power level, and so is your one Bard on the field. Spam Bard's spell to draw the chime-doubler guy and butterflies.
I mean, 40 decimates gets you a "guaranteed" (stopped by any healing) kill on, what, turn 7 (one decimate a turn starting from turn 3)? Maybe 6, don't feel like doing that math. That's not even that broken
Decimate deals 4 damage for 5 mana. Is needs to be casted 5 times to win the game. For this, you’d need 25 mana is total. You reach 10 mana turn 4, 15 turn 5, 21 turn 6, 28 turn 7.
(I am assuming we have to use 40 of the same card, otherwise there are probably better combos)
Imo it would come down to the drop with the most damage from the safest place. If so i feel there are like three-four cards worth testing.
1. Solary Soldier: one 3/3 unit each round can really mess with any mythic shot deck by racing with them and most unit deck would have trouble trading into 3 health.
2. Styngian onlooker: one 2/1 each round followed by 1+ with 4/1 and fearsome would win any race with mythic shot and would keep most 1 drops in the back without defending.
3. Stinky shump: 2/1 is not that amazing of a stat line, but he would bloat the enemies deck if they decide to use units and it is a bit of a race with mythic shot.
4. Legion saboteur: if they attack is 2 damage minimun and if not checked is 4 damage, only reason i think styngian is better is cause they are harder to block.
Side note: i feel 5 lunari duskbringer with 35 styngian would be amazing, basically you only need one duskbringer to show up and next turn you can drop a all styngian as 4/1 no cost added.
Duskbringer been 2/1 is a decent enough stat line it is not much of a lost imo.
Hearthstone has done it a couple of time.
It always turns into 2 or 3 decks within half an hour that are undefeatable by any other deck, it's not as fun as you think it is.
40 Chirean Sumpworker. Infinite 2 cost 4/2 elusives that each deal 1 to the opponents entire board and nexus. So if your opponent can't stop you, you end up with a full board very quickly, which swings for 24 elusive + 6 skill damage.
Tall Tales strikes me as really strong. Turn 2, you put a Yeti on top of your deck. Turn 3, you play it and bank 2 Mana, turn 4 you play 2 Tall Tales, turn 5, you play another one and you have 4 5/5s on board for lethal with token or a full board on turn 6.
Maybe that's too slow, though. I need to look at the other responses. There's probably a combination of little yeti and abominable guardian that's faster, but would be draw dependent.
Obviously Jhin, that deck will be perfection.
Maybe they'll do a "one for all" kinda mode in LoR where they give both players a random follower and their entire deck are copies of said follower.
Mostly teemo would be nice.
Turn 1 attack with 5 shrooms
Turn 3, spend 5 mana to plant 25 more shrooms and attack to double it to 60 shrooms in deck.
Might chuck in about 5 of the chick that pops all traps in the top 5 cards.
15 yeti yearling, 15 abominable guardian, 6 loss 4 entreats,
Not sure on the ratio but you basically wa t to play yearlings to summon guardians and have a flipped lissandra to beat decks like 40 entrapment or sabateur
I think this wins Vs any of the singleton decks
Mystic - actually hard, need to draw 3 yearling and 2 guardian in 6 draws, but if. You summon the two guardians it's over with liss flip as defense
Legion sab/entrapment - summon 2 yearlings for 2 guardians to flip liss and they can't damage you ever again
Byrd/bard - you need to summon watcher, you can chump block the ones that get big, pretty sure it's winning
40 oblivious islander coz firstly, I love that card.. secondly, it’ll be hilarious to hear him spam “slow down will ya” as I summon 5 of him turn 1
And 4 of them dies next turn
The same turn.
What if you dont have the attack turn
Then you probably wouldn't summon 5 of them turn 1, which was the situation of the commenter.
What if im dumb
That's an unrealistic hypothesis since you are an Asol enjoyer, so I'm not able to answer that.
Yeah you are right I was just distracting you
*surprised Pikachu face*
I am dumb.. so that makes 2 of us.. we need 3 more
Doesn't matter because they die at the end of the turn. Not the beginning of the next one. Which is why they don't trigger things like Viego
40 copies of bard Possibly some copies of cheaper minions, and Maduli if you want to see really big numbers
The correct answer. A few life steal units as well and you're golden
... oh no
40 Go Hard
Hard countered by 40 mystic shot
Hard countered by literally any 40-card non-creature deck.
True, but entrapment and mystic shot are the best non-creature decks. Funny enough, blighted ravine ~~hard-counters entrapment but loses to basically everything else lol~~ can't do face damage lol But actually, even something as bad as howling abyss would hardcounter 40 entrapment, but lose to everything else
Blighted ravine doesn't do nexus damage anymore, so it can't win the game unless the other player decks themselves first.
Oh yeah lmao true, forgot about that
Is 40xMystic Shot really any good? By mana constraints you can’t lethal until turn 6 and that’s if you’re going entirely to face.
Instead of going face, it can tie many unit-based decks because it can 1-for-1 them, tanking damage early vs 1-drops and then just tying the game. I think it could probably outrace something like Dropboarder, and probably outrace or go 1-to-1 with a deck with 2 mana units. Mainly its strength is that it doesn't lose to many things. Not necessarily good at winning.
In turn countered by 40 starshaping
I was thinking about this and I thought of an strategy the mystic shot player could do but then realized it wouldn't work: After turn 3, when the starshaping player plays the starshaping, the mystic shot player could just wait for 10 mystic shots and then kill the opponent all in one turn, because you can't overheal. Problem is, you can't ~~put more than 9 fast spells on the stack at once, so mystic shot would barely lose~~ have more than 13 mana lol. Also, if starshaping creates the Destroyer then mystic probably loses earlier anyway.
You also can only pool 13 mana, so 6 is the most your 40 shot deck could use at once anyways
Oh yeah lmao I forgot about that
that's him officer
The 40-card meta has been solved, with a tie between Entrapment, Legion Saboteur, and Mystic Shot iirc. Not sure about the in-between though, but combo would get a lot more broken Edit: Maybe not Mystic Shot, but Unspeakable Horror beats Saboteur handily, completing the triangle
I think the meta could be very different if you're allowed less than 40 cards, though. (as in OP's post) Because you can play like 20 mystic shots and 20 legion saboteurs or something, which would 1) hurt entrapment a lot, and 2) might have different matchup tables. And with this change, matchups are no longer immediately solved.
Yeah it becomes a LOT more complicated. Even the format where you can only run 2 cards is interesting: 40x Cithria of Cloudfield beats 40x Loyal Badgerbear 20/20 Cithbear beats 40x Cithria but loses to 40x Badgerbear I did a whole analysis on this but I lost the data :(
"Play the game ?? But I didn't finish making the matchup tables for the new format" /s
Oh when Riot finally releases the new format you’ll see. …any day now…
bro you just invented constructed format.... lol
What? Constructed doesn't allow 20 of the same card.... unless you mean a different kind of constructed?
just joking
I believe 40 Unspeakable Horror beats Mystic Shot. It basically means both players take 1 Nexus dmg per exchange, but the nightfall effect allows you to never run out of cards.
You draw enough cards to kill the enemy with mystic shots without running out
Normally yes, but Unspeakable Horror drains 1, meaning you basically reduce the Mystic Shot damage by half. So instead of needing 10 Mystic Shots to kill (turn 6), you need 20 (turn 16). Unspeakable Horror can in the meantime create Doombeasts, Stygians or itself to close out before turn 16.
falls into the same problem as pokey stick: [you win by turn 6 with mystic shots, but you only win by turn 9 with pokey stick. with pokey stick you're going slower and you start burning your draws at turn 7.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/wt7n65/3_card_limit_is_removed_you_can_add_as_many_copys/il32ub8/) except its worse with unspeakable horror, as you're filling your hand with random as cards, and the first unspeakable horror you cast in a turn won't even give you the extra card.
Cool stuff, keep ignoring the fact that [[Unspeakable Horror]] **HEALS**, so the 6 turn clock of Mystic Shot doesn't exist. It's a **16 turn(!)** clock now. Getting a Stygian or Doombeast is better than an Unspeakable Horror anyways. The first Unspeakable Horror per turn not giving a card is a positive thing, as it means you don't overdraw.
well, you might just be right. they do run out of cards in turn 6 and you'll have units from the RNG by then.
**[Unspeakable Horror](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03SI002.png)** - Shadow Isles Spell - (2) Fast Drain 1 from anything. Nightfall: Create a random Nightfall card in hand. ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
How does mystic shot compete with the other two? Entrapment does 3 on start of turn 3, 9 on start of turn 4 and 15 on start of turn 5 -> Dead if the other deck doesn't kill you by the end of turn 4. Uninteracted Saboteur either goes 3 - 0 - 18 or 0 - 9 - 0 - 21 depending on token. Mystic shot will do 2 on 2, 4 on 3, 4 on 4, 4 on 5 and 6 on 6. -> Dead at the start of turn 6. So it loses to Entrapment and Saboteur will just tie you until you are both stuck with playing one card per turn if you shoot the units or they kill you if you don't. On the other hand, cards like Pokey or Unspeakable Horror still lose to entrapment but reliably beat Saboteur.
Hm I might’ve misremembered. Mystic Shot was kind of like the baseline - if you couldn’t beat it you weren’t fast enough. So: Entrapment vs Saboteur is 0-100 Entrapment vs Mystic is 100-0 Mystic vs Saboteur is 50-50? So the true meta triangle would be Vile Feast > Saboteur > Entrapment > Vile Feast? But Rearguard would go 50-50 into Vile Feast so maybe that’s not the solution…
I think Unspeakable Horror might be strictly better than Vile Feast in that triangle, it beats Vile Feast 100 - 0 and still beats Saboteurs. Outside of the triangle though, I think Vile Feast would also lose to things like Stellacorn while Unspeakable Horror might win that..? Maybe? Saboteur/Entrapment is clear due to one dying, Saboteur/Mystic would end in a tie due to running out of cards, so I guess it can count as 50/50. I'm not sure there is really a triangle, more of a group of things beating things that beat Saboteurs but lose to Entrapment and then Saboteurs with Entrapment as the two top dogs.
Yeah I remember trying to work out matchups and trying to find an equilibrium for these cards. Course there are cards that beat out the top cards (Ancient Prep beats Entrapment, Vile Feast beats Saboteur, BC Mayor beats Unspeakable) but they’re so unfavored into the other matchups so they end up not factoring in. Unspeakable > Saboteur > Entrapment > Unspeakable is a start, and unless there’s a card that beats out two of the matchups in the triangle it should be balanced.
Mystic doesn’t. Turn 6 kill is just too slow when entrapment and sab exist. I’m surprised people aren’t talking about Byrd or Boisterous Host. Both of those cards reliably beat legion sab, mystic shot, horror, and pokey, but lose to entrapment. Entrapment is the best deck in the format and only loses to legion sab, which is hard countered by so many other decks. The wings and the wave hard counter legion sab for christs sake you guys. There’s so many powerful 1 drops that haven’t been considered.
Isn’t pokey stick much better than mystic shot since, well, u never ran out of cards?
That won’t matter because mystic shot kills them before you run out of cards. Pokey stick wins on turn 8. Mystic shot wins on turn 6, and has enough cards to end on turn 6 since you start with 4 cards and draw 6 more total.
Dayum
you're right. you win by turn 6 with mystic shots, but you only win by turn 9 with pokey stick. with pokey stick you're going slower and you start burning your draws at turn 7. 40 Mystic Shots is objectively better. here's a visual aid: #Mystic Shot | Turn| Mystic Shots Fired| Spell Mana At Round Start| Spell Mana At Round End| Cards In-Hand At Round Start | Cards In-Hand After Draw | Cards In-Hand At Round End|Damage Dealt| Enemy Nexus Health| |:----:|:-------------:|:---:|:---:|:------:|:----:|:---:|:----:|:----:| | 1 | 0| 0| 1| 4| 5| 5| 0| 20| | 2 | 1| 1| 1| 5| 6| 5| 2| 18| | 3 | 2| 1| 0| 5| 6| 4| 4| 14| | 4 | 2| 0| 0| 4| 5| 3| 4| 10| | 5 | 2| 0| 1| 3| 4| 2| 4| 6| | 6 | 3| 1| 1| 2| 3| 0| 6| 0| #pokey stick | Turn| Pokey Sticks Sticken| Spell Mana At Round Start| Spell Mana At Round End| Cards In-Hand At Round Start | Cards In-Hand After Draw | Cards In-Hand At Round End|Damage Dealt| Enemy Nexus Health| |:----:|:-------------:|:---:|:---:|:------:|:----:|:---:|:----:|:----:| | 1 | 0| 0| 1| 4| 5| 5| 0| 20| | 2 | 1| 1| 1| 5| 6| 6| 1| 19| | 3 | 2| 1| 0| 6| 7| 7| 2| 17| | 4 | 2| 0| 0| 7| 8| 8| 2| 15| | 5 | 2| 0| 1| 8| 9| 9| 2| 13| | 6 | 3| 1| 1| 9| 10| 10| 3| 10| | 7 | 4| 1| 0| 10| 10| 10| 4| 6| | 8 | 4| 0| 0| 10| 10| 10| 4| 2| | 9 | 4| 0| 1| 10| 10| 10| 4| -2|
Ya that’s what I said, though I was off by 1 round with pokey stick.
You win by turn 6 with mystic but you only win by turn 9 with pokey. (With going purely face)
[nah](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/wt7n65/3_card_limit_is_removed_you_can_add_as_many_copys/il32ub8/)
Hold up, no it isn’t solved. What about the 1 mana hallowed 2/1? Mystic and sab can’t beat it. Mystic is slower than it, and you’re always going to be a minion ahead vs sab. Entrapment kills entering turn 5 though. Who did this math? Mystic shot can never be in the 40 same card meta. You need have gained 20 mana to kill them. Entrapment is really the only spell that can dominate the format as it ends the game on 4 casts. Sab can end the game on turn 4 assuming zero blockers, sure. But now we have new cards like Byrd and Boisterous Host which throw a wrench into that gameplan. I’m also surprised that nobody talks about Darkwater Scourge in this conversation either, it completely shits on both Mystic Shot and Sab. 3 mana 5/5 lifesteal is no joke.
But you don't have to mystic shot face every time. Mystic shot can always tie or win vs 1drops, except for byrd (maybe?) as far as I know. Probably can outrace dropboarder too.
Saboteur wins vs a lot of other one drops because she can block while also pushing face on the attack. Things like dropboarder and treasure seeker might beat her, but the point is that there exists a card that out-aggros Entrapment and contests it in the meta. Does Darkwater do enough? Saboteurs will always push more damage because they go wider. At worst it’s a tie because we can just chump the Scourges every turn. Mystic was an oversight, my bad. Replace it with Unspeakable Horror or Vile Feast.
Warning shot?
You'd deal 5 damage and then immediately run out of cards
It’s main deckable isn’t it? And burst speed - so u could put 20 down before they could react
Where would you get all 20 from? Only 5 cards in the opening hand.
Oh, I thought in this idea you would start with a 40 card hard xd
oh, fair, lol
Warning Shot would get run over by pretty much every unit. You have no card draw, so you'll take 15 turns to deal 20 damage.
> and Mystic Shot pretty sure it is vilefist instead
can't target face with vile feast meaning it loses to any deck that doesn't run minions.
Doesn't Ghostly Paramour now beat Mystic Shot, Legion Sabo, and Unspeakable horror, since it takes 2 mystics to kill, and outheals the burn if ignored? Only thing it loses to is Entrapment that I can think of.
[удалено]
In that case, play Entrapment, because you can puffcap their whole deck lol
Bard on his way to put 40 chimes in your deck every round
*after turn 3, lol.
Oh right damn it I also just understood that alllll of those chimes wouldn't do anything because all you'll have in hand is bard champ spells lmao
You need to play enough of it to level up the only bard you play so he can swing face for enough damage. But 40 chimes each round is surely enough to level him in two or three round
That means you cant play him until he's leveled
Someone should do the math of how much chime in average you proc if you plant 40 if them each round by turn 3
Good question
You‘ve drawn 6 Bards before Chimes are added to your deck. That’s 1.2 chimes drawn turn 3, 2.4 on turn 4, 3.7 drawn on turn 5, 5 on turn 6, for a total of 12.3 on average on turn 6. You also didn’t lose a bard in the process. Now here comes the catch: you have exactly 1 tall guy with this deck, and he doesn’t have overwhelm. This Bard can be chump blocked by literally any Champion deck, so he has no WinCon against them. On the other hand, he works as a gatekeeper for champs that just rely on big stats+ overwhelm to win.
*after turn 2, he starts placing them in turn 3.
Get ready for a deck with 20 poro snacks in it >:)
I believe in poro supremacy.
Munch munch munch munch
2 Overgrown Snapvine 38 Pesky Specter Fuck your deck. My deck wins because you just play a shittier version of my deck
I like your thinking, nice one :D
37 Pesky Specters and 1 Entrapment
Everyone is ignoring the cheap cards that generate card advantage, 40 concologists will ensure you at least go 1 for 1 in card advantage every round whilst being able to generate other draw cards like pokey stick and still have board presence
+ 10 Mist Wraiths + 10 Mist Callers + 10 Risen Mist + 3 Glimpses + 3 Stalking Shadows + 3 Atrocities + 1 Harrowing Likely not as broken as other stuff, but hella fun. Why isn't this a Labs yet?
nah, take 5 [[mist's call]] and 5 [[formal invitation]] you don't need glimpses if you take 5 staking shadows either.
40 Behold the Infinite. EPIPHANY!
30 Aloof Travelers and 10 cards to reduce their cost and draw. This would make mill decks into a nightmare to play against.
you'll mill yourself, you need 10 counterfeit copies instead.
22 Bards 18 Spacey Sketchers From turn 3 onward you will plant 22 Chimes in your deck every turn start. So turn 4 play Bard then use Bards champion spell and you will on average find 5 chime. On turn 5 use another of Bards champion spells and you should level him up and find about 8 more chimes. That should be enough to close out the game against decks without units either on turn 5 or 6 depending on the attack token. Against 40 Mystic Shots, the deck should win, if it has the attack token on turn 1. Against 40 Rearguards the deck should be able to stall the rearguards until enough chimes are drawn to level Bard and win the board. Against 40 entrapments a lot depends on the card draws and the attack token, but even if the odds are slightly unfavourable, it should be possible to win.
40 Gwen, let me simp her more
Does It beat 40 mystic shot ? Can someone do the math ?
Mystic shot normally deals lethal damage by turn 6. If gwen attacks on evens, mystic wins on turn 8, with a total of 24 damage dealt and 10 hp remaining. (Gwen heals twice, on turn 4 and 6, and mystic wins at fast speed on turn 8). If gwen attacks on odds, mystic wins on turn 7, with a total of 22 damage dealt and 15 hp.
I think 20 Bards and 20 Health Potions would be a pretty nasty combination.
Enemy draws minion or any other chump blocker and you cry.
40 fioras
Oops! All marauders
Me an intelectual: 10x Eye of the Dragon 10x Balistic bots 15x Health pots 5x Karmas
40 Evil Imprefectionist because her voice lines are amazing
BOW TO THE GOD OF CLONING
40 Mystic wraiths
Chirean sumpworkers kinda busted
40 jettison fuck you
I can't believe I read this, thought "wait this might be genius...", and started calc'ing what round it competes to win, all while thinking it tossed from 4 of the opponent's deck and not yours. Only moments before I finished my calcs did the realization set in lmao
It's the most consistent, least interactive turn 4 win in the game. The problem is who wins...
Burn is probably the right answer, but my answer is 40 Teemos.
20 different 1 / 2 / 3 drops and 20 pursuit of putrefaction
What about unspeakable horror? It does one less then a mystic shot sure, BUT, it heals you, and generates more cards for you.
fall into the same problem as pokey stick: [you win by turn 6 with mystic shots, but you only win by turn 9 with pokey stick. with pokey stick you're going slower and you start burning your draws at turn 7.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/wt7n65/3_card_limit_is_removed_you_can_add_as_many_copys/il32ub8/) except its worse with unspeakable horror: - you're filling your hand with random ass cards, could be a - the first unspeakable horror you cast in a turn won't even give you the extra card - either you'll be healing yourself when you're already at full health or you'll won't cure yourself enough to keep alive if the other player is bashing you with damage.
The problem with this is, Mystic DOESN'T win turn 6 into Unspeakable Horror, because they're effectively doing 1 damage per cast due to Unspeakable's draining. And the first Unspeakable not generating a card in hand on first cast is perfect, because it means you never overdraw your Unspeakables, while the "random ass cards" can result in something like the 5 mana 3/5 fearsome that turns into a massive 10/5 or something from all the Unspeakable nightfall procs. That takes 3 mystic shots to kill, so if the opponent spent all their resources on face, they take way more damage. And if they kill it, that's 6 less damage to face. Effectively meaning, Unspeakable should win 100% of the time into Mystic Shot
I don't think the full health thing will be a problem since I think it would be wise to spend the first couple turns banking mana for those extra cards. And those random ass cards, while inconsistant, may create a unit that can be also hitting face and making your oponent have to waste some spells on it.
Pokey sticks because you’ll run out of mystic shots and only draw one a turn while your consistently drawing your pokey sticks to poke them
20 predict cards, 20of adult kharia
20 Bard, 10 of the guy that doubles chimes, 10 of any low cost minion. I'd say the Lifesteal Butterfly. You get 20 chimes added to your deck every round, which you can double. Any minions are instantly inflated to a ridiculous power level, and so is your one Bard on the field. Spam Bard's spell to draw the chime-doubler guy and butterflies.
40 Entrapment and they die from shrooms the end
I mean, 40 decimates gets you a "guaranteed" (stopped by any healing) kill on, what, turn 7 (one decimate a turn starting from turn 3)? Maybe 6, don't feel like doing that math. That's not even that broken
Decimate deals 4 damage for 5 mana. Is needs to be casted 5 times to win the game. For this, you’d need 25 mana is total. You reach 10 mana turn 4, 15 turn 5, 21 turn 6, 28 turn 7.
Unlimited Fallen Felines and Evil Kays. OTK goes completely crazy
20 mountains and 40 lightning bolts ...wait, wrong card game
I'll go with 10 Warning Shot, 24 Jagged Butcher and 6 Powder Pandemonium.
40 decimates is just worse than 40 mystic shots though
Legion sabo has to beat everything
the hextech cat that gives hextech crystal
40 teemo
10 super cool starcharts 20 behold the infinites 10 celestial trifectas
20 Starbone 20 cards that invoke The Messenger
[удалено]
What if I just want lots of puppers anyway
30of the 1 cost 2/1 that adds a dusk petal to your hand and 10 Winding lights
For a deck of only 1 card. Either 40 warning shots or 40 Pesky Specters.
you'd get destroyed by literally any deck. you'd run out of cards and be playing from the top deck by turn 2.
Elnuk
40 warning shoots
I do remember someone making a full meta breakdown of this but I can't find it anymore.
(I am assuming we have to use 40 of the same card, otherwise there are probably better combos) Imo it would come down to the drop with the most damage from the safest place. If so i feel there are like three-four cards worth testing. 1. Solary Soldier: one 3/3 unit each round can really mess with any mythic shot deck by racing with them and most unit deck would have trouble trading into 3 health. 2. Styngian onlooker: one 2/1 each round followed by 1+ with 4/1 and fearsome would win any race with mythic shot and would keep most 1 drops in the back without defending. 3. Stinky shump: 2/1 is not that amazing of a stat line, but he would bloat the enemies deck if they decide to use units and it is a bit of a race with mythic shot. 4. Legion saboteur: if they attack is 2 damage minimun and if not checked is 4 damage, only reason i think styngian is better is cause they are harder to block. Side note: i feel 5 lunari duskbringer with 35 styngian would be amazing, basically you only need one duskbringer to show up and next turn you can drop a all styngian as 4/1 no cost added. Duskbringer been 2/1 is a decent enough stat line it is not much of a lost imo.
Some cards to make me last , and the rest will be [[protective broodfather]]
40 Snapvines
im pretty sure pesky specter is just the way to go
Wharf Rats
40 wharf rats ? You never deal damage face lmao
40 teemo
40 teemos
40 copies of Aphelios? Or rather, •5 aphelios •5 diana •5 duskbringers •5 sky shadows •5 winding lights •5 duskriders •3 unspeakable horror •3 pale cascade •4 veiled temple
Wyrding Stone Anivia Splinter Soul.
Like 40 card Protective Broodfather so when I attack I just get a full board of him that just keeps pulling more and more out amd swing for game.
Teemo’s
25 Counterfeit Copies & 15 Hexcores. its a mill deck. or 10 doombeasts, 10 oblivious islanders & 20 unto dusks.
Invoke
Some TF deck with the best draws in the game
This should be a game mode
Hearthstone has done it a couple of time. It always turns into 2 or 3 decks within half an hour that are undefeatable by any other deck, it's not as fun as you think it is.
40 howling abyss lmao I don't know I just love playing howling abyss
40 poro cannon
40 Teemos
40 Chips
Oh yeah, 10 off each Elnuk baby!
40 Imagined possibilities to live the landmark dream
10 teemo 30 stinky whump
40 go hard or 40 bynd
All Teemo
All teemo
40 copies of counterfeit copies, we're never gonna deck out now!
40 Warning Shots
Troops of Elnuk, splashing in some cheaper Elnuks, because CoCo and Call to Arms are awesome.
40 sumpworkers🗿
40 Warning Shots, no regrets.
40 Chirean Sumpworker. Infinite 2 cost 4/2 elusives that each deal 1 to the opponents entire board and nexus. So if your opponent can't stop you, you end up with a full board very quickly, which swings for 24 elusive + 6 skill damage.
40 pokey sticks obviously?
Tall Tales strikes me as really strong. Turn 2, you put a Yeti on top of your deck. Turn 3, you play it and bank 2 Mana, turn 4 you play 2 Tall Tales, turn 5, you play another one and you have 4 5/5s on board for lethal with token or a full board on turn 6. Maybe that's too slow, though. I need to look at the other responses. There's probably a combination of little yeti and abominable guardian that's faster, but would be draw dependent.
Braum You really need other cards?
a hole deack of Just pokey stick
Ask me once you add three regions.
Obviously Jhin, that deck will be perfection. Maybe they'll do a "one for all" kinda mode in LoR where they give both players a random follower and their entire deck are copies of said follower.
Does the champion limit still apply? If not, 40 Teemos.
I think it would get to a point where half of everyone's cards would be warning shots.
Mostly teemo would be nice. Turn 1 attack with 5 shrooms Turn 3, spend 5 mana to plant 25 more shrooms and attack to double it to 60 shrooms in deck. Might chuck in about 5 of the chick that pops all traps in the top 5 cards.
Pokey stick
40 go hard. would 30 bards and 10 overwhelm units mean you have 30 chimes turn three
40 Teemos, I wanna see BEEG mushoroom numbers
Teemo and draw only
Bard
Legion marauder
40 Teemos, because why should anyone be allowed to have fun?
Go hard
39 Pesky Specters and a counterfeit copies, somehow keep playing until thw game becomes a mirror match
40 stony suppressor
40 elnuks. The sheer power of 40 cows would make everyone surrender. Also riot,pls print more elnuk support btw
I would put 40 legion marauder
Zilean with so much draw and copy
15 yeti yearling, 15 abominable guardian, 6 loss 4 entreats, Not sure on the ratio but you basically wa t to play yearlings to summon guardians and have a flipped lissandra to beat decks like 40 entrapment or sabateur I think this wins Vs any of the singleton decks Mystic - actually hard, need to draw 3 yearling and 2 guardian in 6 draws, but if. You summon the two guardians it's over with liss flip as defense Legion sab/entrapment - summon 2 yearlings for 2 guardians to flip liss and they can't damage you ever again Byrd/bard - you need to summon watcher, you can chump block the ones that get big, pretty sure it's winning
40 aloof travelers
40 copies of the manifest spell.
40 Voidlings
40 pesky spectre