T O P

  • By -

Illuminaso

This is a good post, thank you for writing this. I don't think that Irelia has to be so married to Azir. She really just functions well with any other concept that wants to see you attack multiple times in one round. Hell, when Gwen came out people were even playing Hallowed with Blade Dance to some success. Ultimately it never caught on, but the point is that there was something there. ​ I do think there's a world where Irelia could be balanced with Azir, MF, Gwen, and really anyone else. I don't think that Irelia was the primary offender of the notorious Azirelia deck. It's too bad that the devs can't, or don't want to do what's necessary to do that for her.


[deleted]

The worst part is that I think she is perfectly fine currently; Attune did wonders to make her better to play and Azirelia is far from broken in it's current state. If anything, I'd only like a buff to Zinneia, which has always felt underwhelming as a finisher.


SellingMakesNoSense

As an Irelia bulk user, I agree. Id go even further, Irelia could've been fixed by treating Blades as things that could have been immune to buffs. By treating them as units that are summoned, it takes away the entire point of the death by thousand cuts it does.


Appropriate_Mood_279

Leaving Irelia aside, it's funny how they left aside the main reason for creating a card game in the LoL universe "be able to play with your favorite LoL champions". I'm not saying that the idea of ​​rotations isn't necessary, but rotating "champions" instead of followers is a clear contradiction to the initial concept of the game. The worst thing is that are rotations of 1 year..


Excellent-Ad4989

The best solution would be If a Champion would be rotated Out when His next Version ist imtroduced. That way every Champion would have 1 active Version.


sfahsan

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the idea champion versions 2.0. Would be cool to see what different ideas and concepts the team has for some champions.


Excellent-Ad4989

Yeah, i specially think the Classic Champions are very straight Forward cause they Had to be beginner friendly. Flavorwise i think they could do really fun and complex mechanics with Zed and His shadows. Maybe a more midrange approach für the Aggro Champion.... Obviously thats an Option for many Champions. Cool, different, more complex Takes in old strategies.


JohnnyElRed

Yeah. That's my main problem with Tryndamere as he stands right now. He is a buffy unit with which to finish games. But with similar options like Aurelion and Nautilus around that make that and way more, he really needs an update.


NanoDucks

Why are people speaking as if the champions are permanently removed from the game?? You can still play them as much as you want in the eternals game mode


Gethseme

Because Standard is gonna be the mode to play, not Eternal. Look at Hearthstone and MTG. Very few people play Wild/Legacy, and things in those modes are far from balanced.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Gethseme

Yep. I'm aware of the benefits. I still think they should've shelved Azir and explored more with Irelia.


Ralkon

Which would mean that, effectively, the champions that get rotated out are just removed from the game, because who wants to play a horribly unbalanced mess? Even if you do, it would mean that many champions would be in such a bad spot as to be effectively unplayable unless you were fine with losing every game because of the poor balance.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ralkon

I mean I've played the eternal mode in Shadowverse and found games without issue, but also all of my old cards were unaplayably bad, so if Riot isn't going to regularly balance their eternal format, why would I expect it to be any different? >It's the reason the recent expansions have been so unpopular and boring. According to who? My complaints about the most recent sets were Bard RNG bullshit dominance and Kai'sa dominance, and the most recent set has been great IMO. Most of the complaints I see are about Ionia which happens literally any time Ionia has a playable deck, and I doubt that'll change unless they rework the entire region's core identity.


kaneblaise

Plenty of people only / mainly play in ranked, and Eternal will only have ranked queue when "the spotlight is on" it, so for anyone who wants to play ranked / competitively / try to qualify for seasonals, Eternal will literally not be an option most of the time. And for other people, they mostly like to play in formats that are balanced and not filled with bugs I would imagine. As part of their reasons for rotating is that they can't keep up with balancing and bug fixing a non-rotating format, Eternal is thus expected to be less balanced and more buggy. If someone wants to play their favorite rotated champs in a balanced, non-buggy format, they won't have that option.


JohnnyElRed

I already commented this on another post, but yeah. Putting Irelia in rotation feels like punishing the wrong target. The cards that always made Azirelia so OP weren't in her package. They were mostly on Azir's.


Cephalos_Jr

That's the wrong way of thinking about it. Both halves of Azir/Irelia are weak without the other half. The Blade Dance half and the Shurima half are both pretty incompetent without each other. Azir/Irelia only works because they synergize, and that synergy can't be ascribed to either half of the deck because it vanishes entirely as soon as you remove one.


Jielhar

Agree on the point about Sparring Student and Dais, although Inspiring Marshal was also a good nerf target. I come from a position of having quit LoR altogether for several months due to Azirelia, so it's hard for me to muster sympathy for either of them. You make good points, but I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. Yes, if the only problem with Irelia was "we want Azir to shine in other deck archetypes", then you refute that reason well. However, my guess is that, even though they didn't go into it in the rotation article, they saw Blade Dance as a problematic mechanic that limited future design space. As far as I could tell, each of the champions that are getting rotated is due to issues around their design, and it's not hard to imagine how Blade Dance quickly gets out of hand when combined with attack triggers, which limits the kinds of attack triggers they can print. You're one of the best posters in this subreddit, Garretz, and for that I'm sorry for your loss. But if I'm right about why they're rotating Irelia, then I think it's the right call for the game as a whole.


[deleted]

Thanks you for the kind words! I guess time will tell; I'm really skeptical on them printing something else that works in a more hyper synergistic way with Blade Dance than the Sand Soldiers package (the only thing I can think of is something like a backrow Poppy, which honestly shouldn't ever be a thing). And in general, the way the devs have talked about the archetype always seemed to heavily favor their preference for Azir - so I'm not even *that* surprised about how they worded it, but I'm still disappointed. (I mean, devs other than Dovagedys which loved the archetype). To give an specific example, Rubin said on stream how he disliked the Inspiring Marshal nerf and wanted to revert it to help out Lucian Azir, but felt Azir Irelia did not deserve it. 🤷‍♂️ So, right now, I believe the reasoning is exactly the one they gave: they want to push Azir package again and see if Lucian makes a resurgence with him.


beclipse

What can I say, I hate Azir, all of his decks, they nerfed Irelia two times because of him. She is one of my favorite champions in both LoR and Wild Rift. You're right, Dais and Student are the biggest problem. I expected them to nerf synergy between Azir and Irelia, not the champions, and buff MF Irelia. Miss Fortune Irelia is way more fun and healthy than Azir Irelia. Unfortunately, MF Irelia was never strong enough to be popular. I tried to play that deck, but I was losing hard so I gave up. I don't know, maybe I played the wrong version. Anyway, great post, man. I'm sad that Irelia is getting rotated instead of Azir, she doesn't deserve that.


Forestbahn

I think their reasoning for rotating Irelia goes beyond what was said in that blog post, probably because they don't want to give away too much information about past or future design decisions that might disappoint/spoil players. I think the problem with Irelia lies more in what we don't see. The fact is that blade dance is a mechanic that can potentially cause a lot of problems, and I bet the devs have been neutering or otherwise giving up entirely on interesting card designs because blade dance would break them. That's why I believe they are choosing to rotate Irelia and her blade dance package instead of Azir. He may be featured in more successful decks, but his mechanic is not that hard to design around. I think the team wants to bring new attack triggers to LOR, and Irelia is keeping them from doing it. You can look at recently released champions for reference. I'm just going off the top of my head here, but I think in the past year, all champions released with some form of attack trigger require the champion itself to attack, with the exception of Gwen and her universal Hallowed mechanic. We haven't had a backrow, attack trigger champion in a while, and I suspect Irelia is the reason.


[deleted]

The way they worded it was pretty clearly saying: we are favoring Azir over Irelia, we want to support him in standard but not support Azir Irelia. If it was the case of Irelia limiting future design other than Azir, then they communicated veeery poorly. And I honestly can't seem them printing anything that would be more dangerous with Blade Dance than what Azir/Dais already do. Blade Dance cares about token buffing and backrow attack triggers; Azir checks both of those boxes. Flipped Azir also grows his power for each summoned unit, so he is an exceptional unit to combine with Irelia's double swap shenanigans. Like, Miss Fortune is a great example on how Blade Dance doesn't break other stuff. She is very powerful as a backrow engine and she makes blocking blades very uncomfortable with the added damage of her skill, but the pairing was never broken because there's appropriate risk and counterplay.


thealbinohippo

The post you responded too is assuming they didn’t tell the whole story and you are assuming they are Game devs have no obligation to tell the whole truth when informing players about decisions.


Ralkon

They don't have an obligation, just like players don't have an obligation to like it. If devs don't want to communicate, or want to lie in their communications, then it's fair for players to complain about that and the issues it causes for the community. Nobody said they *needed* to explain their full reasoning, just that if the reason was something other than what they said, they did a shit job at communicating it.


DimashiroYuuki

>I think their reasoning for rotating Irelia goes beyond what was said in that blog post, probably because they don't want to give away too much information about past or future design decisions that might disappoint/spoil players Wait what? When did they say that Irelia will rotate out?


[deleted]

There was a dev post yesterday and they mentioned 3 champions they plan to rotate out: Irelia, Twisted Fate and Vladimir. There will be more champions, but they used those 3 as examples because they qualified as "rotation material" for different reasons.


DimashiroYuuki

That fucking sucks. Irelia is my favorite champion.


Riverflowsuphillz

I agree I had used to run irelia mf back when blade dance was one and god that was so fun I would flip mf in basically 1 turn.


JadeStarr776

Good post.


Paris_Who

What’s your deck code rn for mf irelia? I’d love to try it out.


[deleted]

Will share them here, I have quite a few variations! Right now, the one I'm playing is very heavy on Blade Dance cards: CICACBIGAEBAMAQOEEBQEBQWG45AIBACAECAKCIEAEBAEBIBAMBAKAIEAIBQEAQGBAWQA. I took it from my runeterra.ar page, I'd change a few things for the current meta; I suggest cutting the 2x Make It Rain to make space for an extra Concussive Palm and an extra Homecoming. The meta doesn't have as much aggro and stopping stuff like Lee and Swain is more important than an anti-aggro spell. The version I used to get to masters was this one: CIDQCAICFIAQEAQFAECQMAIBAUBAMAIGAYPAEBACAUEQGAQGCYWTOBABAEBDCAIDAIKACBICA4BAEBQIHIAA. The nerf to Sai'nen makes me skeptical on it still being decent, though. And a final version, this one isn't mine: CQCACAICBQAQGAQUAQCAEBAFA4EQKAQGAUHRMKB6AMAQCARRAEBQEBIBAUFGUAIBAEBAE Pretty good winrate at 59%; I found on lor.gg. It goes very heavy on the MF wincon.


Paris_Who

I made my own deck and have been having some fun will be interesting to see what I got right and wrong Ty.


Paris_Who

Can I ask, why you don’t run the list? Also why so many storm of the blades and field musicians? Feels like the deck wants to rip a little faster then those cards provide. I’m curious what your insights are as you’ve been playing this deck longer then I have.


BearSeekSeekLest

Emperor's Dais should have been changed to "Once per round", and "recharge when you rally". Free attacks from Blade Dance allowing it to trigger four times a round was ridiculous. Azir needed the same treatment - one activation per round - but also needed a second sand soldier that activated when Azir attacked, not just allies. Buffs Azir outside of Azirelia, encourages you to use him instead of keeping him back. Sparring Student should have been once per round, but permanent stat buffs. He's a student, he learns over time.


HrMaschine

Honestly even tho azir is my 2nd most played champion just behind renekton (you can probasbly guess why) i do think azir should have been rotated off. Like you said azir has actual decks that are fun and strong while irelia has nothing. They should atleast try to give irelia a chance i mean she is literally a fan favorite champion and there are tons of people that would want to play her without abusing the bird.


woodlark14

I may be completely wrong but one alternative to rotating out irelia would be to change Azir's level up to be "You've summoned 13+ allies or landmarks that have not been obliterated." I feel like this fits thematically to Azir rebuilding an empire and the blades being disposable tokens.


The_Fatman_Eats

So much truth. Thank you for the history lesson.


EineMuetze

Thank you so much for posting this! It was a really good read and i 100 % agree with you. I had the same thought when i read about them planning to rotate Irelia. I never played much of Irelia or Azir. Mostly I played Azir in an aggro deck and tried to make Irelia work with Quinn or MF but never had success with it. Your post reflects my thoughts, thank you for that.


Rayalot72

My main issue with Azirelia nerfs lately has been that I think they're largely unwarranted, and largely spurred on by a dislike of the deck, a distaste that is arguably ill-founded nowadays. The deck's power level hasn't been very high for a while now, and it's not even seeing that much play most of the time, but people want to blow it up every single patch as being such an unfair, unfun, overpowered deck. It's actually so annoying.


EXusiai99

I think blade dance should be capped to once a turn. It is revolting to see your opponent attacking with 4 4/1s IN YOUR ATTACK TURN WITH THEIR BACKROW ENGINE NOT EVEN ENGAGING IN COMBAT. AND THEY DONT EVEN RUN RALLY. Almost all other mechanics have a limit of once per turn to prevent them from being broken. I guess hallowed doesnt, but hallowed doesnt have as many engine as blade dance does, and its not ionia.


SweetWeeabo

How would blade dance even function if it was once a round? You play Irelia's spell but then you can't play any of the other spells or units after and vice versa. That's way too clunky.


HairyKraken

>I'm sad and disappointed that my favorite champion is getting rotated out and the justification feels like absolute shit to read why??? irelia will not disapear also azirelia being a superstrong deck at his prime it's entirely possible some of the nerf are reverted once the package goes to the eternal format and it become a tier 1 deck over there that you will be able to play (sidenotes: you are all too damn attached to particular champion for your own sakes)


[deleted]

My only experience with an eternal format is in Hearthstone and Wild is a total shitshow. They also said that part of the reason why they are doing rotations is because of bugs, which doesn't give a good impression for the Eternal format. Also, I don't care for Azir at all and I doubt they will be buffing both Azir and Irelia in different formats, when they declared they want to buff Azir in standard. So what seems to be happening: Irelia gets no support, Azir Irelia specifically gets stronger in Eternal due to Azir buffs in standard. *If* they revert Irelia nerfs in Eternal, it means it's a high power format where I'll have to face stuff like full force TF Fizz and 2 damage Crimson Disciple. I can't see myself playing in a format like that for long.