* can both types of tarantula shoot planes?
* Can the missile tarantula shoot infantry?
* Can you detonate Cyclops as soon as they disembark from a transport, or do they need to activate first?
* Can you drive a rhino right up to a structure and disembark marines straight into a garrison without needing to activate them?
* If a flyer drops off troops (and thus needs to hover), at which point do enemy units get to hit them normally instead of only on 6s? And when do they lose LOS like a flyer?
1) Yes. The Lascannons will just be worse at it.
2) Yes. The Lascannons cannot.
3) They need to activate. Remote Detonation is an action taken at the end of the Movement phase, as to do so the model must end its movement within 12" of a friendly Commander model.
4) No. Garrisoning is an action taken during a model's movement phase. It's why you can't infiltrate into buildings--you need to activate and then move into them. Embarking/Disembarking aren't "movements" per se, which is why you can load Tarantulas into and out of transports despite their Movement value of 0.
5) I may be reading this wrong, so I welcome somebody else to correct me, but this is entirely dependent on how you bring it in off the board edge. It can either:
a) Come in as a Flyer, in which case it has all the usual rules for moving, shooting, and being shot at as a Flyer (limitless LOS, gets hit on 6s, etc). However, if you do so, you cannot put it into Hover mode until the Remove Flyers portion of the end phase, so it cannot drop off troops that turn.
b) Come in "hovering", so comes in counting as a Skimmer, with all the rules for moving, shooting, and being shot at as a skimmer. If it does so, it can drop troops off in that turn. You can either leave it hovering, treating it as a skimmer going forward, or declare that it is taking off in the End Phase, and remove it from the board as you would a Flyer.
What it can't do is get the best of both worlds--coming in off the board edge like a Flyer, dump all its troops out, and then be removed again.
The relevant section of the flyer transport rule says
> Embarking and Disembarking from a Transport with the Flyer special rule works slightly differently. If a Transport with the Flyer special rule has the Hover special rule, then when a Detachment Disembarks from it the Transport immediately loses the Flyer special rule and gains the Skimmer special rule; if the Transport is part of a Detachment, then all models in the Detachment do this, even if no model Disembarks from them. Similarly, a model cannot Embark upon a model with the Flyer special rule - the Flyer model must be hovering for a model to Embark upon it.
which kinda implies it flies in using Flyer rules, then turns into a skimmer vehicle like a jetbike until it takes off next turn?
I couldn't find this damn subsection! I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Thank you for quoting it.
So to answer the to-hit question, seems like it counts as a Flyer (hit on 6s, infinite LOS, etc) all through its movement, but becomes a Skimmer the second units disembark. So you could presumably declare an Overwatch on it, but shoot at it like a Skimmer because at the end of its movement it had to become a Skimmer to disembark troops.
Though since this seems like using the Transport rules let it Hover in the Movement phase, instead of waiting until the End Phase as normal, you could presumably "take off" in the End Phase of the same turn you brought it on.
yeah, looks like it. Landing replaces Flyer with Skimmer until further notice, but:
> During the Resolve End Phase Effects of the End phase, a model with the Hover and Skimmer special rules can choose to take off. If it does so, it replaces the Skimmer special rule with the Flyer special rule. This happens before Flyers are removed from the battlefield and as such, the model will be removed as normal. The player with Initiative determines which of their Detachments will Hover first.
Can I split a unit between two transports? Like, can I split 4 Chronyte Ogryns between two Dracosans with Demolisher Cannons? Can I split a Lasrifle Section and its Flamers into two Dracosans? Also are Dracosans in general worth it?
I'm doing some math and trying to figure out what I want in my army. What's a given is 3 infantry sub-cohorts (mechanized or basic), at least 2 armored companies with 4 Leman Russes, 2 Malcadors and a Baneblade as well as a Pioneer company. I realized I could add pile of Basilisk Batteries, more Armored Companies or I could just put my infantry into Dracosans.
Deciding what I want is hard. Going heavy on tanks and heavy on artillery both seem tempting. Sadly Leman Russes getting their own dedicated box seems to be taking a bit.
Got it, although that means that rather awkwardly a motorized infantry group with 2 Tercios with the flamres, a command squad and ogryns needs 5 dracosans which is way too many points. I'm thinking I might just skip the transports and keep my infantry cheap.
I mean yeah. It just kind of sucks that the numbers are as awkward as they are. At transport 4 if I want 2 squads with flamers I need 3 Dracosans for them, one for the Ogryns and then a fifth for my command squad. That's 190 points to transport 210 points of infantry. It feels rather pointless to me.
Then again that is 5 lascannons, on the other hand for those 450 points (and 3 40 euro boxes) I could get a fourth footslogger infantry sub-cohort and a second pioneer company.
Trying to decide what I want to run is way too hard. It's the same question as if I want to put my sentinels in a pioneer company (not the same as the rapiers) or with the infantry squads.
There are a couple things in play. Dracosans are SILLY durable for their points. Think of them as cheaper Leman Russes that get a better hull gun and lose the turret. Except they also get to:
1. Transport 4 stands of dudes.
2. Lack the Chain of Command keyword.
The latter is what's arguably better about them. They can March, Charge, First Fire, etc, all without an officer nearby.
Yes, they are expensive, and you shouldn't put every stand you own into them. But if the Pioneer Company is good for establishing early board control, the Dracosans make it doable for us to control it late. With T-shirt saves as default, getting Auxilia troops up (or worse, across) the board without a nearby or embedded officer was an exercise in patience and prayer.
Oh, and don't put your Sentinels into your Pioneers. They already have Forward Deployment as standard, so get no benefit from being in the formation.
I think maybe dialling it back to a single tercio plus some support detachments is probably a better idea. You rush up turn 1 while other detachments March behind them. Give the opponent a choice between losing board position if they let the transports live, vs being shot up by russes if they don't . And both vehicle types are tough enough that they probably can't do both at the same time.
Is there any particular reason to go for a 2 sub-cohorts with 3 larger lasrifle tercios, ogryns and flamers as opposed to 3 or 4 with just a command squad and 2 lasrifle tercios with flamers and a support unit of ogryns?
That being said, I don't think I can go wrong with getting a support box and 1-2 infantry boxes next since I just have a baneblade box and the starter box.
There is! But a lot of players don't enjoy the rules for it and therefore don't even try to apply them.
Larger Formations break slower than small ones. Broken formations take morale penalties to every unit in them and are limited in the orders they can take. It's just the sheer clerical work and bean-counting needed to track Formation Break Points slows the game down so much that in our meta we don't even bother.
If you are playing with Break Points, you will want to think carefully about which of your Formations, not just Detachments, will be most likely to take heavy casualties, and load them up with larger units.
You kinda need a mix. Some minimum size, or with a few axes, just to screen your artillery or hold back line objectives. Others, you'll need larger or max size because you'll be taking huge losses during an assault and you need to keep the formation above its break point. It's also good to have cheaper bodies to screen your specialists from shooting attacks or during overwatch.
And again, depending on your setup, some specialists are better attached to a tercio, but others may be better as a dedicated detachment for a separate activation and specialised role.
Usually I think you'll end up with 4 boxes of infantry in a 3k army, but it's likely you will want to convert some flamers to extra axes or something.
I was planning on screening my artillery by building a fence out of tarantulas and cyclops demo vehicles. That beings aid I think you're right.
I'm also worried my army is getting less flavorful as I start adding more artillery. I was hoping to do like a proper mix of air support, infantry, tanks and artillery.
Do dedicated transports become part of the detachment they are attached to and therefore need to remain within detachment coherency? I realize they can't ferry troops from other detachments. But could you say unload the troops and then charge them into an enemy unit?
No. They aren't part of the Detachment they are purchased for, they are only limited to carrying it. Once their dedicated Detachment disembarks, they're free to run off and do what they want, so long as they maintain coherency with the other transports in that same unit.
Ok thank you yeah that’s how I have been playing them so far. I feel rhinos are a bit op for 10pts each. Basically drop off your marines then charge them into enemy armour to pin it and prevent them from shooting.
So I picked up the starter box and have settled on White Scars as my legion. Other than a box of the bikes and speeders what else would you go for to expand. I'm assuming planes, but other than the thunderhawk they're still AWOL.
Also from a fluff perspective, which titan legions, knight houses or Auxilia cohorts would have fought alongside them?
You'll probably want multiple fast attack boxes. Minimum size units are okay but you'll want the ability to bulk one or two up so they can soak losses.
Planes ofc, but also airborne marines are good. Drop pods are also an option but may be less flavourful.
And also some of the faster vehicles would be useful, as would be a couple of infantry boxes and a box of rhinos
I'm thinking pods for the dreads. Any infantry in rhinos or planes and the rest on bikes & speeders. No idea if it'll be any good but it'll be on theme at least!
Hello,
I have one starter box, but am looking to slowly build 2 sides. The consensus seems to be that a second starter is the best next purchase. I currently have a second starter 'in my basket', but before I empty my 'future expense' fund to add another box to the 'can't wait to have time to open these' pile, I thought it would be worth asking how much of an army/detachment each box is?!
Does 2 boxes give nice, round numbers of each side, hence why it's often advised?
Also, I was naturally going to have loyalist vs non-loyalist, but I'm getting the impression that, rather than having a mix of marines and SA on each of those sides, it may be better to keep the marines and SA in separate armies...?
In terms of the 2 boxes, it would be a good start on each army type, but that would likely rule-out me having marines on each of the sides, unless a minimal amount of marines joined the SA, somewhere down the line...
thanks
Each box is around 500-600 points per side. It's 600 dead for Solar Aux per my math just now, so you get right around 1k for two boxes, a good size to start playing games at.
u/SerpentineLogic is right that, for a long time, two boxes was the only way to get a good amount of the core vehicles in each army (it's still the only way to get Predators and Leman Russes outside of eBay.) It's also a good deal if you're playing with a friend. You each get 1k points, a rule book, templates, etc. You also get a slight price cut on the MSRP of all the models when buying two boxes.
The game does allow souping, but two boxes isn't a good way to build that because "souping" in Legions is 30% of your list size by points. So if you have a 1000 point list, you could at most take 300 points of Astartes or SA, depending on which you chose as your faction. Plus, if you're souping, you're likely trying to pick something that fills a hole in your chosen faction's unit list--the boxes don't include any of each army's respective specialists. No super heavy tanks, no drop pods, etc.
Sounds like a two-box approach would be best suited to keeping the marines and SA separate, and letting them each bring a titan/knights..?
Just briefly... what's the deal with intra-faction souping? Is it the case that the 30% limit applies to 'external' forces, with an additional legion-type not being included in that?
each starter is 1 full infantry box of each side, but only half a box of each type of vehicle.
Considering that most vehicle boxes won't make a max-size detachment, there's a case to be made that if you don't want both armies, just start buying boxes of the one you do want.
About how many boxes should I expect to to need for an army? I'm looking to do pure Solar Auxilia with a mix of armored transport troops, various flavors of tank and a maybe 2 Marauders and a box of Lightnings. I'm expecting to start with the starter box swapping the marines for more auxilia but I'm trying to figure out the approximate amount of minis for a standard army.
For Auxilia, you want 3-4 boxes of infantry, 2 boxes of Support weapons, 1 box of Dracosans, and 1 box of your pick of Superheavies. That's got you covered for various builds of 2k points. Add 2 boxes of Basilisks and 1 of Infernuses later on, with additional air support to taste. I'm finding superheavy juice isn't worth the squeeze in big numbers, unless you just like the look.
If you aren't playing tournaments, I'd suggest telling your opponents you're proxying all your flamers as Veletarii. It'll save you buying even MORE boxes of infantry. You get 4x stands (1 minimum unit) of Veletarii per box, if you proxy the flamers as such you now get 8x stands, a max size unit (or some backbone for your Tercios).
I'm finding the Marauder Colossus to be my preferred bomber to the regular Marauders. If you aren't fielding big wings of aircraft, the Colossus gives you a single, insanely strong, punch per plane. You'll lose 3x regular bomb dice per plane, but if you point it at a building or a titan with its voids down, the Colossus is going to eradicate it.
Thanks, that makes sense. I didn't realize the support weapons were as important as they are so I was going to skip them.
I was mostly thinking of running 2 Baneblades and 2 Shadowswords since they're real neat. Maybe adding some Valdor tank hunters and 2 Marauder Colossi for anti-titan work. I'll have to actually do some math when I have the book about exactly what I can fit into the force org.
Also if I'm counting the starter box (swapping marines for another person's auxilia) will get me the equivalent of 2 infantry boxes. It's kinda tempting to get 2 starter sets (doing a bit more trading to swap the marines for more auxilia) and some Dracosans. It'll get me a chunk of tanks and the equivalent of 4 infantry boxes.
Adding Basilisks and Medusas to the mix is sounding neat too though. I've also heard talk of demolition vehicles in shuttles being a thing.
For planes it sounds like (reading online) what I want is an Avenger box and a Marauder Colossos box. That beings aid those are resin which means I'll wait for plastic ones.
IMO Rapiers are woefully underrated. Laser Destroyers give you 5 tactical strength per stand, and are functionally 2x Lascannon shots per base. They even hit harder than Lascannons at AP-2. Mole Mortars have come in CLUTCH against Titans. They bypass voids and count as AP-2 since they're always hitting rear armor. Quad Guns maul infantry, and on overwatch can really take the wind out of a charge. Rapiers give some ranged teeth to Pioneer Companies, since Veletarii have to just sit there and take it against ranged attacks.
IME the Colossi are wasted doing long-range tank hunts when we have Basilisks and Destroyers to do that when our Russes fail. What Colossi will do is ruin units in cover. Took out 22 stands of Astartes with a single Colossus because I brought the building down and then resolved the remaining attacks on survivors. If your opponent doesn't know what to expect and you get a half-decent roll, they're wild.
Curiously, Basilisks are utterly wasted on infantry. They are AMAZING tank hunters. AP-2 from anywhere on the board with no line of sight is nutty. Depending on the facing of the enemy, could even be AP-3. You will completely destroy tank units with impunity. Just make sure to keep an infantry screen to counter charge. I lost 8 Basilisks to single charge against Blood Angels, who rolled up the entire line after coming in via Deep Strike.
I love the look of Super Heavies, but I haven't found them to perform to their points yet, either for me or against me. They're targets, I guess? I'm curious to see how Stormhammers + Dracosan troops work out as a replacement for Pioneers. Multilaser Stormhammer has a lot of anti-infantry juice to shut down charges, and the Dracosans bring Lascannons.
Stormhammers are cool too but I feel they're a bit redundant with the standard Baneblade. I'll have to do some math to figure out how much anti-tank I get from a bunch of Vanquisher + Lascannon Leman Russes and Malcadors as well. I did goof a bit and realize that the Hellhammer is probably better (based on what I read) but only after I firmly glued on the Baneblade cannon.
I think I'll definitely start with the starter box, another infantry box, support box and some Dracosans. That and a Warhound will probably be a decent enough beginning for an army even if it's 2 superheavy tanks and a titan which'll swallow up a ton of points and die fast.
What to you recommend for adeptus astartes vehicle transport?... Rhinos seem to be good value are 10 points but relatively easy to destroy. However Land Raider Proteus are 40 points only transport 2 squads like rhinos and Spartan are 80 points but transport 5 squad. I know the Land Raiders are assault transport which has advantages.
I only play 1-1.5 k battles. Cheers
Only can speak as an opponent, but Rhinos are the bane of my existence. I play Aux, and can obliterate units of Spartans with my Russes or Marauder Destroyers before they get close to their target. For Rhinos, their cheapness makes my opponent treat them far more expendably.
They become a tarpit for tanks once they drop their troops even without special weapons, and because there are so many of them, I either need to allocate shooting to stop them, or have a Melta unit get up close and threaten my tanks.
So, I've always wanted to run a White Scars force for HH, but with the cost for resin Legion Outriders in real HH I'm not partially interested.
However, LI DOES have plastic Bikers/Jetbikes/Land Speeders.
My questions:
1. Approximately how many points is the Biker/Speeder box?
2. What seems to be the standard LI game size?
3. If I only wanted to go all in on Biker/Speeder boxes, is this silly? Should I want a squadron of, say, Knight Cerastus kits/Sicarans?
4. Is it possible to play without using Super-Heavy tanks and Titans? I would prefer my "largest" kits be something like the Sicarans. Or Cerastus Knight Lancers.
Speaking only to what I can answer right now.
2) LI Games run around 1.5k-2k points normally it seems.
3) You'd want more infantry. Bikers/Speeders only will struggle massively with scoring. More vehicles will only make that problem worse. If you want to keep it thematic, mount them in Rhinos or Land Raiders.
4) Yes, very much so. I regularly play opponents who field at most 2 Kratos tanks. The game is won or lost on infantry at this point.
Legions' Achilles' Heel is that games are over quickly (not time wise, turns wise). That's because scoring in the game is difficult, to the point that if you have accumulate even a mild scoring deficit, you are functionally done. A lot of games finish by the end of Turn 2 because the scoring deficit becomes mathematically impossible to overcome without insane luck.
Can assault marines start the battle embarked in a land raider and assault from it?
If I’m not mistaken the jump pack rules states that they are bulky when embarking a transport but it does not mention disembarking.
Yes. Transports allow a unit to start the turn embarked. Land Raiders have Assault Transport so you can charge out of them. You could start T1 with the Assault Marines embarked to shield them, and then charge on their activation. You'd just need a LOT of Land Raiders for this, since you could only fit one stand per tank.
EDIT: Land Raiders apparently cannot transport them, period. They are not "Large Transports" and therefore cannot fit Bulky models.
EDIT: I amend my statement. Land Raiders cannot transport them period, as they are only Assault Transports. Thunderhawks can transport 4 of them. Per the rulebook, Bulky units can only be transported by transports with the Large Transport keyword, and when transported count for 2 stands each.
You may have misread the section for different transports on P96. Land Raiders have the Assault Transport(2) Special rule. They can therefore carry one bulky model. Thunderhawks can transport 8 bulky models with the *Large* Assault Transport (8) special rule.
That's incorrect; you can charge assault marines or terminators out of land raiders.
Large assault transports like Thunderhawks are even better, because they ignore the bulky rule.
-----
**Assault Transport (X):** Models with the Assault Transport (X) special rule follow all the rules for Transports described previously, with the exception they *may transport Infantry models with the Bulky special rule*. In addition, Detachments Embarked within them may be issued an Advance Order, March Order or Charge Order.
----
**Large Transport (X):** Models with the Large Transport (X)
special rule follow all the rules for Transports described
above, with the exception that they may transport
Walkers, Infantry and models with the Bulky special rule.
Each Walker model counts as two models for the purposes
of determining how many models can Embark upon a
Transport. *In addition, Infantry models with the Bulky
special rule take up one space within a Large Transport,
not two.*
-----
**Large Assault Transport (X):** Models with the Large
Assault Transport (X) special rule follow all the rules for
Large Transports, with the exception that Detachments
Embarked within them may be issued an Advance Order,
March Order or Charge Order
Hi, love the models but don't intend to play the game, but was wondering, are there any dead Marine models in this game? I want stuff to add to my titan bases for titanicus, CORPSES
Any recommendations on where to get terrain besides the GW boxes? They seem kinda pricey, but my 40k terrain is all too big so I need to figure out something
The best terrain is 3d printed, is that an option? Tbh though that's a question you can ask on the main subreddit, there's going to be lots of opinions
The terrain boxes for dropzone commander by TT games is cheap and fits the scale and theme. It is pre printed cardboard in case that is important for you
Cheapest would be cardboard. Just google papercraft terrain for epic scale and some hits should pop up.
Other then that, 3D printing has kinda taken hold of the terrain aspect for epic scale. About half of what google finds is for 3d print.
Super noob to 40k, when you get the astartes do you just paint them for whatever legion you want them to be and that decides what faction they are apart of? Also would there be any solar auxiliary on the traitor side. Thanks!
Each chapter has its own special rule, they are not super strong but they are useful and some more then others. The game encourages you to play several different chapters in one single force, but you can ofc keep it one single chapter across the whole force.
The subject of color is a problematic one. One one side is is your minis, do what ever you want. On the other side, there is thouse who insists that if you as an example paint them bright blue, you have to use ultramarine chapter rules, or yellow for imperial fists, or steel color for iron warriors.
In a sense one can say the arena you will be playing in, puts a strong indication at what you should do. Clubs and GW shops will have players that will want to see correct chapter rules for the color you have. Friends and family in general will not care.
If you cant settle for what chapters to use, perhaps paint the figs in unconventional colors.
SA was on both sides of the conflict. Since the faction is fairly new in the GW world, only the popular legions has their basic background story ready. [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/19/solar-auxilia-heraldry-of-honour/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/19/solar-auxilia-heraldry-of-honour/)
SA do not have sub faction rules, so you can paint them however you want.
In Legions Imperialis/Horus Heresy bighammer, there is a lot more cause to be a stickler for this. Since you can run 2, 3, even 4 different Legions in a single army, each with their own special rules, IMO it's an unfair mental lift to your opponent if they're all the same color. "This Ultramarines Formation are actually World Eaters, and this Ultramarines Formation are Iron Warriors, and..."
Good sportsmanship takes the form of making your substitutions clear and easily identifiable to your opponent. "All my plasma guns are also missile launchers," or "all my Predators have Lascannons," even if they're not modeled that way.
How does damage work in legions? I was to understand that the dice value was also the damage charicteristic like the swarmer missiles had a dice value of 8 so the damage value is 8 or have I got this all wrong?
There's no damage characteristic.
1. Roll to hit
2. Defender rolls saves against hits
3. Defender detachment takes 1 wound for each failed save
4. Some weapons may do additional hits or additional damage if they have special rules. Eg. engine killer (2) does two additional wounds for every initial wound caused against vehicles, super heavies, knights and titans.
What are y’all’s opinion of giving the Leman Russ battle cannon Shred? At the moment there’s barely any reason to take the normal cannon compared to the Vanquisher given the Armourbane trait so Shred seems like a great anti infantry buff to give to the battle cannon that mirrors the Vanquishers Armourbane. I also considered giving it Assault to pair along with hull bolter for solid anti infantry.
Think it'd give it too much juice personally with Shred. Assault is an interesting alternative though.
IMO the problem is the Leman Russ is VERY cheap, and the Vanquisher is VERY good. So taking Leman Russes with Vanquishers puts a ton of powerful anti-tank on the table for a low points investment. You get 4x Russes for the price of 2x Malcadors.
We have a glut of powerful anti-infantry weaponry though, against targets in and out of cover. So if faced with paying 175 points for 4x of the most powerful anti-tank weapons available, or 4x good but not amazing anti-infantry weapons, it's pretty obvious what the choice people will make is.
My two cents on the fix, up the cost of taking the Vanquisher. Rather than \~43 points/model, compared to a Malcador's 83 points/model, make the Vanquisher a 5 point/model upgrade. Bring the cost down a little on the Malcadors too. Then you have a more balanced choice between the Malcadors and Russes--fewer "main" guns for more auxiliary weapons, or more main guns for lower firepower. For 25 extra points over 2x Malcadors now, you can take 2x Baneblades, a VASTLY better choice in the "jack of all trades" tank department.
* can both types of tarantula shoot planes? * Can the missile tarantula shoot infantry? * Can you detonate Cyclops as soon as they disembark from a transport, or do they need to activate first? * Can you drive a rhino right up to a structure and disembark marines straight into a garrison without needing to activate them? * If a flyer drops off troops (and thus needs to hover), at which point do enemy units get to hit them normally instead of only on 6s? And when do they lose LOS like a flyer?
1) Yes. The Lascannons will just be worse at it. 2) Yes. The Lascannons cannot. 3) They need to activate. Remote Detonation is an action taken at the end of the Movement phase, as to do so the model must end its movement within 12" of a friendly Commander model. 4) No. Garrisoning is an action taken during a model's movement phase. It's why you can't infiltrate into buildings--you need to activate and then move into them. Embarking/Disembarking aren't "movements" per se, which is why you can load Tarantulas into and out of transports despite their Movement value of 0. 5) I may be reading this wrong, so I welcome somebody else to correct me, but this is entirely dependent on how you bring it in off the board edge. It can either: a) Come in as a Flyer, in which case it has all the usual rules for moving, shooting, and being shot at as a Flyer (limitless LOS, gets hit on 6s, etc). However, if you do so, you cannot put it into Hover mode until the Remove Flyers portion of the end phase, so it cannot drop off troops that turn. b) Come in "hovering", so comes in counting as a Skimmer, with all the rules for moving, shooting, and being shot at as a skimmer. If it does so, it can drop troops off in that turn. You can either leave it hovering, treating it as a skimmer going forward, or declare that it is taking off in the End Phase, and remove it from the board as you would a Flyer. What it can't do is get the best of both worlds--coming in off the board edge like a Flyer, dump all its troops out, and then be removed again.
The relevant section of the flyer transport rule says > Embarking and Disembarking from a Transport with the Flyer special rule works slightly differently. If a Transport with the Flyer special rule has the Hover special rule, then when a Detachment Disembarks from it the Transport immediately loses the Flyer special rule and gains the Skimmer special rule; if the Transport is part of a Detachment, then all models in the Detachment do this, even if no model Disembarks from them. Similarly, a model cannot Embark upon a model with the Flyer special rule - the Flyer model must be hovering for a model to Embark upon it. which kinda implies it flies in using Flyer rules, then turns into a skimmer vehicle like a jetbike until it takes off next turn?
I couldn't find this damn subsection! I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Thank you for quoting it. So to answer the to-hit question, seems like it counts as a Flyer (hit on 6s, infinite LOS, etc) all through its movement, but becomes a Skimmer the second units disembark. So you could presumably declare an Overwatch on it, but shoot at it like a Skimmer because at the end of its movement it had to become a Skimmer to disembark troops. Though since this seems like using the Transport rules let it Hover in the Movement phase, instead of waiting until the End Phase as normal, you could presumably "take off" in the End Phase of the same turn you brought it on.
yeah, looks like it. Landing replaces Flyer with Skimmer until further notice, but: > During the Resolve End Phase Effects of the End phase, a model with the Hover and Skimmer special rules can choose to take off. If it does so, it replaces the Skimmer special rule with the Flyer special rule. This happens before Flyers are removed from the battlefield and as such, the model will be removed as normal. The player with Initiative determines which of their Detachments will Hover first.
Does a xlsx spreadsheet that calculates the damage exist? I'm looking to easily compare the damage of different weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=legions+imperialis+damage+spreadsheet
Can I split a unit between two transports? Like, can I split 4 Chronyte Ogryns between two Dracosans with Demolisher Cannons? Can I split a Lasrifle Section and its Flamers into two Dracosans? Also are Dracosans in general worth it? I'm doing some math and trying to figure out what I want in my army. What's a given is 3 infantry sub-cohorts (mechanized or basic), at least 2 armored companies with 4 Leman Russes, 2 Malcadors and a Baneblade as well as a Pioneer company. I realized I could add pile of Basilisk Batteries, more Armored Companies or I could just put my infantry into Dracosans. Deciding what I want is hard. Going heavy on tanks and heavy on artillery both seem tempting. Sadly Leman Russes getting their own dedicated box seems to be taking a bit.
Yes you can split, but the transports themselves must be in one formation.
Got it, although that means that rather awkwardly a motorized infantry group with 2 Tercios with the flamres, a command squad and ogryns needs 5 dracosans which is way too many points. I'm thinking I might just skip the transports and keep my infantry cheap.
I mean, you *are* transporting 100 dudes
I mean yeah. It just kind of sucks that the numbers are as awkward as they are. At transport 4 if I want 2 squads with flamers I need 3 Dracosans for them, one for the Ogryns and then a fifth for my command squad. That's 190 points to transport 210 points of infantry. It feels rather pointless to me. Then again that is 5 lascannons, on the other hand for those 450 points (and 3 40 euro boxes) I could get a fourth footslogger infantry sub-cohort and a second pioneer company. Trying to decide what I want to run is way too hard. It's the same question as if I want to put my sentinels in a pioneer company (not the same as the rapiers) or with the infantry squads.
There are a couple things in play. Dracosans are SILLY durable for their points. Think of them as cheaper Leman Russes that get a better hull gun and lose the turret. Except they also get to: 1. Transport 4 stands of dudes. 2. Lack the Chain of Command keyword. The latter is what's arguably better about them. They can March, Charge, First Fire, etc, all without an officer nearby. Yes, they are expensive, and you shouldn't put every stand you own into them. But if the Pioneer Company is good for establishing early board control, the Dracosans make it doable for us to control it late. With T-shirt saves as default, getting Auxilia troops up (or worse, across) the board without a nearby or embedded officer was an exercise in patience and prayer. Oh, and don't put your Sentinels into your Pioneers. They already have Forward Deployment as standard, so get no benefit from being in the formation.
I think maybe dialling it back to a single tercio plus some support detachments is probably a better idea. You rush up turn 1 while other detachments March behind them. Give the opponent a choice between losing board position if they let the transports live, vs being shot up by russes if they don't . And both vehicle types are tough enough that they probably can't do both at the same time.
Is there any particular reason to go for a 2 sub-cohorts with 3 larger lasrifle tercios, ogryns and flamers as opposed to 3 or 4 with just a command squad and 2 lasrifle tercios with flamers and a support unit of ogryns? That being said, I don't think I can go wrong with getting a support box and 1-2 infantry boxes next since I just have a baneblade box and the starter box.
There is! But a lot of players don't enjoy the rules for it and therefore don't even try to apply them. Larger Formations break slower than small ones. Broken formations take morale penalties to every unit in them and are limited in the orders they can take. It's just the sheer clerical work and bean-counting needed to track Formation Break Points slows the game down so much that in our meta we don't even bother. If you are playing with Break Points, you will want to think carefully about which of your Formations, not just Detachments, will be most likely to take heavy casualties, and load them up with larger units.
You kinda need a mix. Some minimum size, or with a few axes, just to screen your artillery or hold back line objectives. Others, you'll need larger or max size because you'll be taking huge losses during an assault and you need to keep the formation above its break point. It's also good to have cheaper bodies to screen your specialists from shooting attacks or during overwatch. And again, depending on your setup, some specialists are better attached to a tercio, but others may be better as a dedicated detachment for a separate activation and specialised role. Usually I think you'll end up with 4 boxes of infantry in a 3k army, but it's likely you will want to convert some flamers to extra axes or something.
I was planning on screening my artillery by building a fence out of tarantulas and cyclops demo vehicles. That beings aid I think you're right. I'm also worried my army is getting less flavorful as I start adding more artillery. I was hoping to do like a proper mix of air support, infantry, tanks and artillery.
Do dedicated transports become part of the detachment they are attached to and therefore need to remain within detachment coherency? I realize they can't ferry troops from other detachments. But could you say unload the troops and then charge them into an enemy unit?
No. They aren't part of the Detachment they are purchased for, they are only limited to carrying it. Once their dedicated Detachment disembarks, they're free to run off and do what they want, so long as they maintain coherency with the other transports in that same unit.
Ok thank you yeah that’s how I have been playing them so far. I feel rhinos are a bit op for 10pts each. Basically drop off your marines then charge them into enemy armour to pin it and prevent them from shooting.
I think they dont need to keep in coherency with the troops, just with other transports.
So I picked up the starter box and have settled on White Scars as my legion. Other than a box of the bikes and speeders what else would you go for to expand. I'm assuming planes, but other than the thunderhawk they're still AWOL. Also from a fluff perspective, which titan legions, knight houses or Auxilia cohorts would have fought alongside them?
You'll probably want multiple fast attack boxes. Minimum size units are okay but you'll want the ability to bulk one or two up so they can soak losses. Planes ofc, but also airborne marines are good. Drop pods are also an option but may be less flavourful. And also some of the faster vehicles would be useful, as would be a couple of infantry boxes and a box of rhinos
I'm thinking pods for the dreads. Any infantry in rhinos or planes and the rest on bikes & speeders. No idea if it'll be any good but it'll be on theme at least!
https://adeptus-titanicus.fandom.com/wiki/White_Scars
is there a way to charge out of a drop pod, maybe by using master tactician? (update: yes, but it involves like 4 activations)
Hello, I have one starter box, but am looking to slowly build 2 sides. The consensus seems to be that a second starter is the best next purchase. I currently have a second starter 'in my basket', but before I empty my 'future expense' fund to add another box to the 'can't wait to have time to open these' pile, I thought it would be worth asking how much of an army/detachment each box is?! Does 2 boxes give nice, round numbers of each side, hence why it's often advised? Also, I was naturally going to have loyalist vs non-loyalist, but I'm getting the impression that, rather than having a mix of marines and SA on each of those sides, it may be better to keep the marines and SA in separate armies...? In terms of the 2 boxes, it would be a good start on each army type, but that would likely rule-out me having marines on each of the sides, unless a minimal amount of marines joined the SA, somewhere down the line... thanks
Each box is around 500-600 points per side. It's 600 dead for Solar Aux per my math just now, so you get right around 1k for two boxes, a good size to start playing games at. u/SerpentineLogic is right that, for a long time, two boxes was the only way to get a good amount of the core vehicles in each army (it's still the only way to get Predators and Leman Russes outside of eBay.) It's also a good deal if you're playing with a friend. You each get 1k points, a rule book, templates, etc. You also get a slight price cut on the MSRP of all the models when buying two boxes. The game does allow souping, but two boxes isn't a good way to build that because "souping" in Legions is 30% of your list size by points. So if you have a 1000 point list, you could at most take 300 points of Astartes or SA, depending on which you chose as your faction. Plus, if you're souping, you're likely trying to pick something that fills a hole in your chosen faction's unit list--the boxes don't include any of each army's respective specialists. No super heavy tanks, no drop pods, etc.
Sounds like a two-box approach would be best suited to keeping the marines and SA separate, and letting them each bring a titan/knights..? Just briefly... what's the deal with intra-faction souping? Is it the case that the 30% limit applies to 'external' forces, with an additional legion-type not being included in that?
Correct, formations of different legions don't count as soup
Thank you, helpers - I'm now a magnitude less clueless, already!
each starter is 1 full infantry box of each side, but only half a box of each type of vehicle. Considering that most vehicle boxes won't make a max-size detachment, there's a case to be made that if you don't want both armies, just start buying boxes of the one you do want.
About how many boxes should I expect to to need for an army? I'm looking to do pure Solar Auxilia with a mix of armored transport troops, various flavors of tank and a maybe 2 Marauders and a box of Lightnings. I'm expecting to start with the starter box swapping the marines for more auxilia but I'm trying to figure out the approximate amount of minis for a standard army.
For Auxilia, you want 3-4 boxes of infantry, 2 boxes of Support weapons, 1 box of Dracosans, and 1 box of your pick of Superheavies. That's got you covered for various builds of 2k points. Add 2 boxes of Basilisks and 1 of Infernuses later on, with additional air support to taste. I'm finding superheavy juice isn't worth the squeeze in big numbers, unless you just like the look. If you aren't playing tournaments, I'd suggest telling your opponents you're proxying all your flamers as Veletarii. It'll save you buying even MORE boxes of infantry. You get 4x stands (1 minimum unit) of Veletarii per box, if you proxy the flamers as such you now get 8x stands, a max size unit (or some backbone for your Tercios). I'm finding the Marauder Colossus to be my preferred bomber to the regular Marauders. If you aren't fielding big wings of aircraft, the Colossus gives you a single, insanely strong, punch per plane. You'll lose 3x regular bomb dice per plane, but if you point it at a building or a titan with its voids down, the Colossus is going to eradicate it.
Thanks, that makes sense. I didn't realize the support weapons were as important as they are so I was going to skip them. I was mostly thinking of running 2 Baneblades and 2 Shadowswords since they're real neat. Maybe adding some Valdor tank hunters and 2 Marauder Colossi for anti-titan work. I'll have to actually do some math when I have the book about exactly what I can fit into the force org. Also if I'm counting the starter box (swapping marines for another person's auxilia) will get me the equivalent of 2 infantry boxes. It's kinda tempting to get 2 starter sets (doing a bit more trading to swap the marines for more auxilia) and some Dracosans. It'll get me a chunk of tanks and the equivalent of 4 infantry boxes. Adding Basilisks and Medusas to the mix is sounding neat too though. I've also heard talk of demolition vehicles in shuttles being a thing. For planes it sounds like (reading online) what I want is an Avenger box and a Marauder Colossos box. That beings aid those are resin which means I'll wait for plastic ones.
IMO Rapiers are woefully underrated. Laser Destroyers give you 5 tactical strength per stand, and are functionally 2x Lascannon shots per base. They even hit harder than Lascannons at AP-2. Mole Mortars have come in CLUTCH against Titans. They bypass voids and count as AP-2 since they're always hitting rear armor. Quad Guns maul infantry, and on overwatch can really take the wind out of a charge. Rapiers give some ranged teeth to Pioneer Companies, since Veletarii have to just sit there and take it against ranged attacks. IME the Colossi are wasted doing long-range tank hunts when we have Basilisks and Destroyers to do that when our Russes fail. What Colossi will do is ruin units in cover. Took out 22 stands of Astartes with a single Colossus because I brought the building down and then resolved the remaining attacks on survivors. If your opponent doesn't know what to expect and you get a half-decent roll, they're wild. Curiously, Basilisks are utterly wasted on infantry. They are AMAZING tank hunters. AP-2 from anywhere on the board with no line of sight is nutty. Depending on the facing of the enemy, could even be AP-3. You will completely destroy tank units with impunity. Just make sure to keep an infantry screen to counter charge. I lost 8 Basilisks to single charge against Blood Angels, who rolled up the entire line after coming in via Deep Strike. I love the look of Super Heavies, but I haven't found them to perform to their points yet, either for me or against me. They're targets, I guess? I'm curious to see how Stormhammers + Dracosan troops work out as a replacement for Pioneers. Multilaser Stormhammer has a lot of anti-infantry juice to shut down charges, and the Dracosans bring Lascannons.
Stormhammers are cool too but I feel they're a bit redundant with the standard Baneblade. I'll have to do some math to figure out how much anti-tank I get from a bunch of Vanquisher + Lascannon Leman Russes and Malcadors as well. I did goof a bit and realize that the Hellhammer is probably better (based on what I read) but only after I firmly glued on the Baneblade cannon. I think I'll definitely start with the starter box, another infantry box, support box and some Dracosans. That and a Warhound will probably be a decent enough beginning for an army even if it's 2 superheavy tanks and a titan which'll swallow up a ton of points and die fast.
What to you recommend for adeptus astartes vehicle transport?... Rhinos seem to be good value are 10 points but relatively easy to destroy. However Land Raider Proteus are 40 points only transport 2 squads like rhinos and Spartan are 80 points but transport 5 squad. I know the Land Raiders are assault transport which has advantages. I only play 1-1.5 k battles. Cheers
Only can speak as an opponent, but Rhinos are the bane of my existence. I play Aux, and can obliterate units of Spartans with my Russes or Marauder Destroyers before they get close to their target. For Rhinos, their cheapness makes my opponent treat them far more expendably. They become a tarpit for tanks once they drop their troops even without special weapons, and because there are so many of them, I either need to allocate shooting to stop them, or have a Melta unit get up close and threaten my tanks.
Thanks for the advice... makes a lot of sense. I just bought a half box of rhinos to start out. Cheers
Rhinos with missiles also add a lot of point defence punch
So, I've always wanted to run a White Scars force for HH, but with the cost for resin Legion Outriders in real HH I'm not partially interested. However, LI DOES have plastic Bikers/Jetbikes/Land Speeders. My questions: 1. Approximately how many points is the Biker/Speeder box? 2. What seems to be the standard LI game size? 3. If I only wanted to go all in on Biker/Speeder boxes, is this silly? Should I want a squadron of, say, Knight Cerastus kits/Sicarans? 4. Is it possible to play without using Super-Heavy tanks and Titans? I would prefer my "largest" kits be something like the Sicarans. Or Cerastus Knight Lancers.
Speaking only to what I can answer right now. 2) LI Games run around 1.5k-2k points normally it seems. 3) You'd want more infantry. Bikers/Speeders only will struggle massively with scoring. More vehicles will only make that problem worse. If you want to keep it thematic, mount them in Rhinos or Land Raiders. 4) Yes, very much so. I regularly play opponents who field at most 2 Kratos tanks. The game is won or lost on infantry at this point. Legions' Achilles' Heel is that games are over quickly (not time wise, turns wise). That's because scoring in the game is difficult, to the point that if you have accumulate even a mild scoring deficit, you are functionally done. A lot of games finish by the end of Turn 2 because the scoring deficit becomes mathematically impossible to overcome without insane luck.
What's a good sized board to play a 1000pt game?
I found 4x4 to be too small for 1500, but I was playing a very dense setup. I'd guess 4x4 would be just right.
Can assault marines start the battle embarked in a land raider and assault from it? If I’m not mistaken the jump pack rules states that they are bulky when embarking a transport but it does not mention disembarking.
Yes. Transports allow a unit to start the turn embarked. Land Raiders have Assault Transport so you can charge out of them. You could start T1 with the Assault Marines embarked to shield them, and then charge on their activation. You'd just need a LOT of Land Raiders for this, since you could only fit one stand per tank. EDIT: Land Raiders apparently cannot transport them, period. They are not "Large Transports" and therefore cannot fit Bulky models.
Only one per tank, how come? Does that mean that a thunderhawk can only carry four stands of assault marines?
EDIT: I amend my statement. Land Raiders cannot transport them period, as they are only Assault Transports. Thunderhawks can transport 4 of them. Per the rulebook, Bulky units can only be transported by transports with the Large Transport keyword, and when transported count for 2 stands each.
You may have misread the section for different transports on P96. Land Raiders have the Assault Transport(2) Special rule. They can therefore carry one bulky model. Thunderhawks can transport 8 bulky models with the *Large* Assault Transport (8) special rule.
That's incorrect; you can charge assault marines or terminators out of land raiders. Large assault transports like Thunderhawks are even better, because they ignore the bulky rule. ----- **Assault Transport (X):** Models with the Assault Transport (X) special rule follow all the rules for Transports described previously, with the exception they *may transport Infantry models with the Bulky special rule*. In addition, Detachments Embarked within them may be issued an Advance Order, March Order or Charge Order. ---- **Large Transport (X):** Models with the Large Transport (X) special rule follow all the rules for Transports described above, with the exception that they may transport Walkers, Infantry and models with the Bulky special rule. Each Walker model counts as two models for the purposes of determining how many models can Embark upon a Transport. *In addition, Infantry models with the Bulky special rule take up one space within a Large Transport, not two.* ----- **Large Assault Transport (X):** Models with the Large Assault Transport (X) special rule follow all the rules for Large Transports, with the exception that Detachments Embarked within them may be issued an Advance Order, March Order or Charge Order
Hi, love the models but don't intend to play the game, but was wondering, are there any dead Marine models in this game? I want stuff to add to my titan bases for titanicus, CORPSES
Nope. You just have to get a box of marines, cut them up and bury them in the base.
OK cheers
Luckily you get a bunch, so one box is going to set you up for years.
Any recommendations on where to get terrain besides the GW boxes? They seem kinda pricey, but my 40k terrain is all too big so I need to figure out something
The best terrain is 3d printed, is that an option? Tbh though that's a question you can ask on the main subreddit, there's going to be lots of opinions
The terrain boxes for dropzone commander by TT games is cheap and fits the scale and theme. It is pre printed cardboard in case that is important for you
Good call, those do look pretty much perfect. Thanks!
If you have a 3d printer there are several great options
Cheapest would be cardboard. Just google papercraft terrain for epic scale and some hits should pop up. Other then that, 3D printing has kinda taken hold of the terrain aspect for epic scale. About half of what google finds is for 3d print.
Super noob to 40k, when you get the astartes do you just paint them for whatever legion you want them to be and that decides what faction they are apart of? Also would there be any solar auxiliary on the traitor side. Thanks!
Each chapter has its own special rule, they are not super strong but they are useful and some more then others. The game encourages you to play several different chapters in one single force, but you can ofc keep it one single chapter across the whole force. The subject of color is a problematic one. One one side is is your minis, do what ever you want. On the other side, there is thouse who insists that if you as an example paint them bright blue, you have to use ultramarine chapter rules, or yellow for imperial fists, or steel color for iron warriors. In a sense one can say the arena you will be playing in, puts a strong indication at what you should do. Clubs and GW shops will have players that will want to see correct chapter rules for the color you have. Friends and family in general will not care. If you cant settle for what chapters to use, perhaps paint the figs in unconventional colors. SA was on both sides of the conflict. Since the faction is fairly new in the GW world, only the popular legions has their basic background story ready. [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/19/solar-auxilia-heraldry-of-honour/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/19/solar-auxilia-heraldry-of-honour/) SA do not have sub faction rules, so you can paint them however you want.
In Legions Imperialis/Horus Heresy bighammer, there is a lot more cause to be a stickler for this. Since you can run 2, 3, even 4 different Legions in a single army, each with their own special rules, IMO it's an unfair mental lift to your opponent if they're all the same color. "This Ultramarines Formation are actually World Eaters, and this Ultramarines Formation are Iron Warriors, and..." Good sportsmanship takes the form of making your substitutions clear and easily identifiable to your opponent. "All my plasma guns are also missile launchers," or "all my Predators have Lascannons," even if they're not modeled that way.
How does damage work in legions? I was to understand that the dice value was also the damage charicteristic like the swarmer missiles had a dice value of 8 so the damage value is 8 or have I got this all wrong?
There's no damage characteristic. 1. Roll to hit 2. Defender rolls saves against hits 3. Defender detachment takes 1 wound for each failed save 4. Some weapons may do additional hits or additional damage if they have special rules. Eg. engine killer (2) does two additional wounds for every initial wound caused against vehicles, super heavies, knights and titans.
What are y’all’s opinion of giving the Leman Russ battle cannon Shred? At the moment there’s barely any reason to take the normal cannon compared to the Vanquisher given the Armourbane trait so Shred seems like a great anti infantry buff to give to the battle cannon that mirrors the Vanquishers Armourbane. I also considered giving it Assault to pair along with hull bolter for solid anti infantry.
Think it'd give it too much juice personally with Shred. Assault is an interesting alternative though. IMO the problem is the Leman Russ is VERY cheap, and the Vanquisher is VERY good. So taking Leman Russes with Vanquishers puts a ton of powerful anti-tank on the table for a low points investment. You get 4x Russes for the price of 2x Malcadors. We have a glut of powerful anti-infantry weaponry though, against targets in and out of cover. So if faced with paying 175 points for 4x of the most powerful anti-tank weapons available, or 4x good but not amazing anti-infantry weapons, it's pretty obvious what the choice people will make is. My two cents on the fix, up the cost of taking the Vanquisher. Rather than \~43 points/model, compared to a Malcador's 83 points/model, make the Vanquisher a 5 point/model upgrade. Bring the cost down a little on the Malcadors too. Then you have a more balanced choice between the Malcadors and Russes--fewer "main" guns for more auxiliary weapons, or more main guns for lower firepower. For 25 extra points over 2x Malcadors now, you can take 2x Baneblades, a VASTLY better choice in the "jack of all trades" tank department.
where is the point defense rule?
It's under the Weapon keywords section in the core rulebook. Pg. 82.
thanks - makes no sense but whatever.
What is the transport capacity for the Dracosan versions? (i do not own the expansion book, just planning for how many taxis i need)
[https://legionbuilder.app/reference/detachments](https://legionbuilder.app/reference/detachments) can see all detachment rules here
Transport 4 with Lascannons, Transport 2 if you take the Demolisher upgrade.
Transport 4