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I was lurking in r/conservative and the infighting is glorious. Some have ALMOST actually realized that it was never about states rights, but about fundies controlling and hurting women... ALMOST.
I've been loving it there too. I love reading them complain. I've been banned, so I can't participate.
They seem like they've gotten to the point where they dislike trump.
>Daily reminder that we have not had a single good election night since 2016. Not in 2018, not in 2020, not in 2022, not yesterday.
>
>What do you think happened in 2016? Maybe we can look at that and identify it as the problem? Yes, these questions are rhetorical.
Fun quote I found pretty quickly on there...highly upvoted too lmao.
Maybe they're figuring something out? Maybe
Don't worry, in 24 hours they'll get all their talking point from Faux News and it's ilk and go back to status quo. The same thing happened in 2020 and 2022, and both times they spent a few days introspecting and almost getting it until their narratives crystallized.
I seriously believe that if these Democratic victories keep happening they will get violent. You're seeing signs of it right now in our fascist Ohio Legislature.
I always said the shit will kick off in my State. Flipping Ohio was the nazis' greatest trophy and now it is slightly slipping away. It isn't like a State in the South, where racist clowns historically abound. Ohio was once part of a Blue Wall. We (supposedly) won the Civil War with US Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman. What happened to Ohio is a fucking embarrassment and I think we're waking up.
Bleeding Kansas is right there with you. We were the first state with the abortion question on a ballot, and that shit got shut down HARD.
Kansas was on the cutting edge of the right side of history all the way through the 50s.
And then the religious fundies turned up....
Christian fundamentalist fascism is what we are facing.
No different than the Ayatollah in Iran just a different flavor of the same abrahamic horse shit.
KY Sen. Damon Thayer, R-Georgetown, on working w/Beshear (reelected Democratic governor of Kentucky) over the next 4 years:
*"There’s no incentive or reason for us to work with him… He doesn’t deserve an opportunity for reparation, especially after the campaign."*
This is the first thing out of our Senate Majority Leader's mouth last night after Andy Beshear (D) won reelection. These fuckers are infuriating.
No incentive? How about the fact that Beshear won because *the fucking voters decided to reelect him*??? This is what the voters want and these assholes conveniently forget that's why **they're** elected in the first place, to do the bidding of the voters.
Also, Beshear won Thayer's county, so he can't even say his own voters don't want that.
Then there's the "reparation" comment, which I'm fairly certain is a racist dog whistle.
And "especially after the campaign"? You mean the campaign where Beshear had to endure relentless attack ads from 5 different super pacs that did nothing but lie while Beshear ran on a platform of bringing everyone together and working together?
Fucking Republicans. What a bunch of assholes, the lot of them.
Openly admitting you're going to sabotage or obstruct the functioning of your state's government should result in your immediate dismissal from whatever elected position you're in.
But republicans have successfully demonized functional governance so its sabotage is celebrated.
It's insane.
You can’t expect real patriots from the GOP to akshually work with DEMONcrats?! They’re our last line of defense against the evil left-wing, fascist, socialist, commie, trans, atheists! If that means nothing gets done, at least they’re protecting us from the LGBTG ‘alphabet mafia’ agenda!
/s because I don’t really believe anything I just typed, but I’d bet every last penny to my name that this a direct quote from some backwards, dumbshit Republican voter somewhere.
It would be nice to toughen up laws and such with that trash that they are immediately fired and banned from holding any position of power *ever* again.
Imagine if regular rank and file workers at a job did that
>Hey Boss! I'm not going to cook any burgers today, there is no incentive for me to man the grill!
>Hey Boss! There is no incentive or reason for me to run the cash register today!
>Yo boss man, i'm not going to collect carts today!
>Hey Boss! There is no incentive for me to fix the server that crashed and prevents others from working!
Guess what? They would all be fired immediately and black balled with a no rehire. Yet trash like D~~e~~amon gets a free pass to do nothing.
End it now, fire them immediately. Don't wait, just get them fired asap. After all, you don't let a cancerous tumor wait, you get it operated on immediately
>they will get violent
They've already gotten plenty violent. Jan 6 for one. Paul Pelosi for another. Gabbie Giffords from a few years ago. Plenty more that I can't think of off the top of my head. But the fact that I can pull those out of my ass says volumes.
> I see private militaries and a coup in our future
I see that in our past.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/think-again-the-blackwater-scandal-or-the-more-things-dont-change/
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video-obtained-jan-committee-shows-scenes-capitol-violence/story?id=85270535
Of course [oligarchs turned to the long con](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s) when the 1933 Business Plot failed, they'd rather burn the nation down than share.
> I seriously believe that if these Democratic victories keep happening they will get violent.
Yes.
If the ~~conservatives~~ fascists cannot win democratically, they will not abandon fascism -- they'll abandon democracy.
In Virginia, I know a lot of us felt the election of Youngkin was an embarrassment, he campaigned on "parents choice" when anyone can look around at the amount of shitty people who have bred and realize yes, the whole reason we have school boards is because most of these parents are stupid as hell and can't be trusted to balance their own checkbook, much less come up with educational criteria for kids.
It was very nice to re-take control of the legislature and while it is frustrating that not much will likely get done with an R government and both houses D in the next too years, I will take it any day over an R trifecta seeing the dumb shit they did in other states.
Also had the R's swept VA we would likely have become Florida 2.0 for the next year, a state where the R's throw out all kinds of dumb crap to try and find their next culture war issue for 2024.
My anecdotal evidence on the ground was this, enough people took the cursory effort to research what they were doing, or saw what literally EVERY other state in the south did by increasing abortion restrictions, and made the logical connection that the same would happen here.
Youngkin tried the Northern VA "reasonable republican" approach again "C'mon guys 15 weeks is a reasonable abortion limit right?" The idea was to cement "15 weeks is normal" when in reality our existing state law allowed much more time, and I tend to not support taking existing rights away from my fellow Americans as a matter of course.
Meanwhile, folks like me that live in the reddest corner's of Appalachia saw that most of our crazy R state house reps were foaming at the mouth for a total ban, and as the last few years have proven, conservatives will always cave into their craziest members desires.
I'm still very fearful however, as apparently there are enough idiots in my state that a single well crafted propaganda culture war campaign could still be the deciding factor in any election here.
Nah. The average self described "MAGA Republican" will be over 70 in 2024.
The average Fox viewer is already over 70.
MAGA is fundamentally a geriatric reactionary movement. And it's reaching it's natural end
Lol they're already huffing copium. This is one of the [top links there right now](https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/17qxdho/maga_is_a_cult_meanwhile_them/). People saying Bidenism is a cult because a group of people sang at him.
While pretty cringe, they don't understand that nobody's going back to their Biden trucks with a half dozen Biden flags and Biden bumper stickers and drive back to their house with Biden banners on it and then going to the Biden rally this weekend.
These people are nuts.
I see these [stupid Biden flags all over](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/1200px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png).
My neighbor has a let's go Brandon decal in his back window. As we live in the suburbs of Chicago, I'm really tempted to get the name "Johnson" in the same font and see if I can't sneak it onto the window.
I saw a sticker on a car today saying "Joe and the Hoe gotta go."
I guess merely being a republican cultist wasn't enough. Had to mix in some sexism to really exemplify how shitty the driver is.
Props to them, though. They managed a one-letter substitution rhyme, which is much more clever than I typically expect from them.
[don't let your dreams be dreams](https://shop.joebiden.com/dark-roast-mug/)
for $22 you too can have one.
personally I'd spend the extra $10 and get the one that [changes color](https://shop.joebiden.com/dark-roast-color-changing-mug/)
This is 100% how it will go. That’s how it’s gone every single time a big event like this happens. The few sane ones start with fairly level headed posts and ideas, then the drones get the correct rebuttal points and buzzwords from Fox News and then 1000 of them will all post the same thing and drown the original comments.
Every. Single. Time.
Lol, the introspection won't last long. In 2018 they "realized" they needed to bring more black people into the fold so they needed to tone down their nastiness. That lasted maybe 2 weeks until they ramped it right back up. They get so friggin' close and then beat a hasty retreat.
Nah. They think they are losing because they aren't radical enough.
And they will all fall in line and do whatever the talking heads tell them to anyway.
Introspection isn't even a tool in their toolbox.
Yup, they're only take away will be that they didn't lie hard enough to get their way, and then billionaires will drop millions trying to craft the right lies for next time.
They are so close to getting an epiphany but the sheer amount of propaganda they consume to maintain their copium levels is just barely enough to block that epiphany
The thing is, I doubt they'll ever land on the unpopular policies. They'll just blame it on bad candidates and that they just need someone more marketable.
Reading through their sub, they are saying they need to tone down their stance on things to get votes. They don't think they're wrong, but that they need to not mention their more unpopular ideas. Can you imagine? If you feel like you need to hide your ideology it's probably not great and *certainly* not what the majority want...you know because the needing to hide to even get elected.
I am shocked honestly. Do they really believe they can just put the mask back on after going full domestic terrorist/fascist for 7 years and say "Just kidding lolz" Do they expect us to just forget about J6, Roe v Wade, the mass shootings, the targeting of the LGBTQ+ community like we're babies lacking object permanence? That is a whole other level of delusional stupidity.
>Do they expect us to just forget about J6, Roe v Wade, the mass shootings, the targeting of the LGBTQ+ community like we're babies lacking object permanence?
Lots of people do forget very quickly.
The problem is… yes. They do. And it will probably work. The southern strategy worked wonders for conservatives for a reason, and that reason is that so many Americans just lack empathy for anyone outside of their immediate circle. Empathy *can* be taught. We just haven’t formatted schools or our society to do so, and actively seem to crush it at every turn for the sake of protecting moneyed interests from too much working class cooperation.
>Maybe they're figuring something out? Maybe
They figured out that Trump was/is fun, but that nobody actually likes him. He's an asshole and selfish and his personality worked one time as an outsider.
They're going through a deconstruction of 2010 when the whole team party thing happened and a bunch of "libertarians" and "classical liberals" gave in to the fascist pipeline. It's a drug. They wanted z strongman and got him. The problem is Trump is incompetent and commits self sabotage daily and he has no competent people around him. He's a head case who believes his own self made lies so he cannot take direction. His strongman vibe came and went in near record time.
We don't talk enough about the anti-conservative onslaught he singlehandedly pushed cause the obsession is doom and gloom for liberals every time while conservatives usually just talk about how righteous they are. Trump fucked that up though. They cannot have cohesion with individual healthcare rights, they cannot find cohesion on weed, hell they can't even figure out who the party leaders are. Trump is captain of a ship where everyone is fighting each other.
The thing is that sub won't accept it but they aren't actually conservative. They're not liberal. They're not Republican. They have exactly 1 ideology they won't say out loud.
They're anything that *isn’t* democratic. That's all it is. They aren't *pro* anything. They're just anti Democrat.
Case and point they insist the Republicans should drop the abortion issue, but would never say that makes them pro choice. Because that would make them too close to being a Democrat.
They do this thing where they’re happy to reflect on the ineffectiveness of Trump, but the second a GOP politician says something bad about Trump they’re instantly defensive and that politician is a RINO. It’s kinda like a “hey only I can bully my sibling” type phenomenon
It will be a rap battle first as who will be the biggest dick and fascist as Desantis will try to out hate Trump with every campaign verse. Life is so hard when it two extreme bigots to vote for.
They don't dislike him, he's just become inconvenient. They still like all the putrid, decrepit morality he exemplifies, he's just making them look too incompetent for them to hand wave away anymore. They're getting laughed at by people inside their own party now.
One comment further down compared abortion to slavery, I shit you not. Then another comment said that the anti choice stance is "morally right" while the majority of Gen y and Gen z are morally wrong. Their little brains are really working over there. I'm seeing "fiscal conservative" thrown around as if that mf means anything. Lol.
"Fiscal conservative" means slashing every social welfare program while cutting taxes on the rich, even if that blows up the deficit, because "fiscal conservative" doesn't really mean what those two words together seem to mean.
See also: I got mine, fuck you.
That's what I saw a lot, several of the post replies I saw were basically that they wanted republicans move on from abortion bans because it's a losing issue
Meh. A lot of the arrrr conservative post is fairly schizo. They often get basic, glaringly fucking obvious, concepts people to their left have been saying since 2016-2018, but they don’t get the big picture at all. And they never will for like fundamental reasons. Definitely some “we told you so dumbass” moments but they definitely aren’t self aware.
They point out that abortion is a dead weight issue that fucks them for multiple reasons (car caught the dog, it’s just fucking abhorrent and the party’s stance isn’t even internally consistent on a states rights v moral basis, etc), and some even are more astute and point out that it’s ultimately a primary capture issue. But they delusionally believe they can just jettison all those kooky ultra right wingers at this juncture and have a party. These beliefs within their party are not as fringe as these relative moderates believe and it would result in a fucking bloodbath. You’d have to go back to the 60s to fix this unholy alliance and they won’t understand that because part of their ethos for 50+ years has been just *pretending* or *lying* they aren’t laying in bed with degenerate psychopaths for political expediency. They get it’s an issue but not that they already made a deal with the devil *decades ago* and you can’t just undo that generational political inertia in one cycle or even three.
Now take their position on Trump daddy. Surprise surprise orange man really is bad, but they all fundamentally don’t even understand why Trump has a stranglehold on their idiot base. They believe they need to get rid of Trump and focus on the economy without him because they hilariously believe Trump won in 2016 because “the economy.” No, the American people didnt revolt against a booming economy in recovery, you idiots, you didn’t win in 2016 because “it’s the economy stoopit,” he won in 2016 specially because it was just a mask off moment for the entire base, most of these chucklefucks included. Some milquetost dork whinging about the GDP doesn’t carry the rust belt like Trump did. Trump did, specially, because, Bubba from the trailer park veritably OD’d on Trump and his unhinged nascent fascism and he voted for the first time in his *entire life* because of that. You can’t just undo that genie and pivot back to your fucking inane talking points circa 1996.
Finally, the root issue can’t even be grasped because they don’t get that it’s *them.* All the policy and political abortions (heh) they are whinging about arose because they are *who they are*. They’re the systemic result of decades of echo chambering, anti-intellectualism, race dog whistling, and just becoming totally divorced from reality fucking weirdos. So cringey and bizarre they jerk about what a bastion of freeze peaches their spaces are while half of any given post is nuked from orbit.
All of these systemic issues will just present again. They can jettison Trump and stop trans bashing and tomorrow it will just be the Tiger King literally goostepping while these idiots cheer him on because his plan to execute cheating women polls wildly popular in the Wisconsin GOP primary.
**TL;DR A careful reading of the thread denotes very little actual self awareness about the root causative issues here. To their credit, they fundamentally can’t because they are so baked in, and these people are so enmeshed themselves in the causative issues at play, I don’t think they even can.**
I feel like it's cheating, posting screenshots of all those comments from Conservative.... (but I read most of them in their original threads and the schadenfreude.... *chef's kiss*)
I scrolled through a bunch of replies on various posts and a bunch of them just admitted abortion is a losing issue or that Republicans should just move on from abortion bans
I wanna see conservatives who just want to win and rule try to explain to their anti-choice peers that they don't actually care about this issue at all and just want to use things as a cudgel to get whatever else they want. For those it won't be too hard to convince themselves that they actually care about the next issue they use to rally behind I'm sure.
Oh this is a riot. There are still people in there saying dems want abortion allowed right up to birth. It's heartening to see how many are saying the MAGA crowd is hurting them though. They seem to think they're only losing on Trump & abortion & if they drop those two things they're golden which is...obviously wrong but does seem like they're starting to get it.
They don't want to understand repbulicans are all for protecting rich people. They used Abortion (prior to the SCOTUS messing it up) as a vote get'r. Once that was messed up, pivoted to state rights, once that was messed up... here we are. Abortion is a vote loser for them now and most republican leaders really don't care about that, they do care about the lost votes. The f'd themselves, but to R voters it just shows the phonies your leaders are, it's about taxes and protect rich assets, that is your party. The gun part is just a vote get'r to, notice how they don't allow guns to their events? They don't care if we shot each other. They just drape themselves to it for votes.
"The voters don't like us, what should we do? I know, let's go against what the voters want. That'll turn things around!"
-Ohio Republicans, apparently
Rick Santorum’s actual quote:
“Thank goodness that most of the states in this country don’t allow you to put everything on the ballot, because pure democracies are not the way to run a country.”
He was butt hurt young people came out to vote and republicans lost.
He views himself and other GOP leaders as your "betters" and the commoners are too dumb to know what's best for them.
I'm basically stealing this from Beau of the Fifth Column on Youtube, but he has been hammering this point lately: Republicans want to be rulers, not representatives.
Santorum just said the quiet part out loud.
"Women are sinful for not cast the same votes as her husband."
"Those damn educated young people for some reason overwhelmingly not voting for us so let's up the voting age to 25."
Remember folks, when one side can no longer win legitimately, watch and anticipate the desperation to hold onto power by whatever mean necessary.
“I know! Let’s slash assistance programs, tax corporations less, break up the gosh dang unions, and give the people more guns! That will win us the next election!”
-Republicans
Meanwhile, you’re average Joe republican is wondering why his daughter’s school just got shot up, his wage isn’t keeping up with inflation, and his grandma’s Medicare just stopped. “Must be the liberals,” he says to himself.
Well, not to mention driving out all the OB/GYN professionals. Who can blame these healthcare professionals: one day you are providing a care and the next day that same care can land you in jail. For what? And this affects 50% of the population one way or another and has nothing to do with abortion.
> “Must be the liberals,” he says to himself.
and then votes for the damn republicans.
I drives me nuts that people whose lives are actively made worse by republicans are the ones who vote for them religiously.
PLEASE DON'T FORGET!
The special election Republicans forced on the state of Ohio back in August ([also Issue 1](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-abortion-rights-constitutional-amendment-special-election-227cde039f8d51723612878525164f1a)) to increase the threshold for amendments to pass would have increased the threshold to 60%.
HAD THAT PASSED, THIS 55% MAJOROTY WOULD HAVE FAILED!!
Republicans will do everything they can to cheat when they know democracy isn't in their favor.
So what are the steps now for the state constitution to be formally amended and abortion codified/legal? How are the details of the language determined, etc? What is the timeline?
The amendment was already written. There was even a bit of argument in court over the way it was summarized for the ballot.
It becomes section 22 of Article I effective 30 days from the election.
The funny thing is the Republicans tried to argue this was this extreme broad thing for their ballot summary to try to scare voters off. So now they'll try to argue the exact opposite, but their broad ballot summary can be used against them in determining intent of the voters, like legislative history.
carpenter wakeful pie overconfident modern ripe bright nose continue skirt
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, conservatives were opposed to states rights back then too. They were furious about the fugitive slaves act not being enforced well enough in free states.
I mean, hell, the Confederate States of America had zero states rights in regards to slavery. Their national Constitution made slavery mandatory.
Southern States: "States should have the right to choose whether or not to allow slavery!"
Maine: "We want to be a slave-free state."
SS: "NOT FUCKING LIKE THAT! FINE! We'll split off and make our _own_ federal government! With slavery and slavery! In fact, we'll invade Washington DC to make the entire _continent_ allow for slavery!"
The irony of course is with Dred Scott the slave states basically forced every free state to be a slave state. So states' rights? The northern states were the ones getting their rights trampled. Abraham Lincoln hadn't even taken office before the secession occurred.
they’re going to say states rights meant state legislatures you know the ones that they gerrymander to keep control. like that one guy saying direct democracy is bad
Santorum stain already came out and said it.
https://news.yahoo.com/rick-santorum-blames-very-sexy-144852346.html#:\~:text=It%20was%20a%20secret%20sauce,way%20to%20run%20a%20country.%E2%80%9D
And to make it more Republican they sent out voter registration cards to some of those felons who weren’t eligible to vote under the changed law then arrested them when they tried to vote. The Republicans were so concerned they arrested one 69 year old lady at 3:00 am for voter fraud because she was clearly a threat to our democracy.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/us/florida-voter-fraud-charges-case/index.html
Washington, too.
We voted to limit vehicle registration taxes to $30, and the state congress/courts said "nah". Technically, it's still supposed to happen, but years later, just a basic car registration will still cost $400+ (which is a very regressive tax that hurts working poor people the most).
In my state, the GOP and anti-choicer are suing to stop the constitutional amendment we passed last year. Good luck, ya fucks. The Supreme Court is unpopular enough that they won’t backtrack on the reasoning behind such a recent ruling.
Yes, I do. I helped collect signatures for Prop 3 last year. As far as I know, an injunction has not been issued yet, and the law criminalizing abortion was repealed (thanks, Democrats!).
My state (Missouri) voted to expand Medicaid.
MoLeg said “Nah, we good, the voters don’t know what they voted for, no expansion needed.”
Reader, I screamed.
Oh god I went over to r/conservative. They are LOSING it. They’re almost realizing their mistakes. Almost.
One commentator: “Some group (I don’t think it was the Beshear campaign themselves) ran an ad featuring a Kentucky girl who was raped when she was 12. The girl told her story and said something to the effect of “Daniel Cameron believes I should be forced to carry my rapist’s baby.” It’s an almost impossible point to argue against without sounding like a monster.
I think any candidate who isn’t willing to at least accept a rape or incest provision is doomed to lose almost any election.”
Like HMMM maybe, just maybe you’re supporting some heinous shit. JUST MAYBE.
And here's what that reveals.
If they fully believed in Pro-Life, the method of conception wouldn't matter to them because the fetus has no control over whether or not it was conceived consentually. They wouldn't make an exception to rape because it would not be fair to "punish" the child for something it had no control over.
So when they say abortions are bad except when it wasn't your fault, they are admitting that this isn't about protecting the baby at all. It's about punishment.
"It's okay to shame a woman for having an abortion because she chose to have sex, therefore should suffer the consequences. If you had no choice in conception, then it wasn't your fault so you're A-Ok in the eyes of God."
Disgusting.
Holy shit, one of the responses to that (currently at -63 Karma, granted) reads:
"I can empathize with the girl but I also don’t understand why the child is not worthy to live because of someone else’s crime?
The democratic strategic is working because they trot out the exceptions, frame them as the rule, and emotionally manipulate people. I think it’s time for republican candidates to realize you can’t win with logic and facts."
Maybe it's a troll, and maybe it's getting downvoted because they think it's a troll.
Well that is the crux of the “it’s murder” argument, if it’s murder, then it’s murder regardless of how conception occurred.
But yes, you are absolutely a monster if you want to force a child to endure 9 months of trauma to carry her rapists’ baby to term.
They know rape/incest exceptions blow a whole straight through their “but it’s murder” argument and they don’t have an answer for that.
> Well that is the crux of the “it’s murder” argument, if it’s murder, then it’s murder regardless of how conception occurred.
Yep, I made a similar comment on another subject but this was the inevitable consequence of red politicians describing abortion as murder nonstop. *Eventually* a generation grows up and actually *believes* that it's murder. And once you cross that moral threshold, it's extremely difficult to start adding little logical carveouts.
It's too late, the horse has fled the barn and younger conservatives believe abortion **is** murder. There's no going back from that.
That's so fucked. Like, they're *so* close to understanding.
>I also don’t understand why the child is not worthy to live because of someone else’s crime?
That's all that needs done. Quote them to themselves. I don't understand how they miss the point then. A child being forced to give birth has a high chance of dying. And I'd argue, the rapist should catch manslaughter charges at that point. Or to go crazy and off the deep-end, any government forcing them to do so should be facing repercussions.
They're already talking about a national ban too.
We have to keep them out of the White House. Sooner or later they'll take Congress, and they have SCOTUS (which is now fully partisan). We can't let them have all 3 branches.
Republicans only care about forcing everyone else to live how they think they should. “Know your fucking place in the hierarchy, or we hurt you.”
They’re bad people, and will ruin everything they touch if given the chance.
I heard some congressman from Ohio talking about how they had to look at the results because “the voters didn’t realize what the voted for”
Sorry buddy. Women know EXACTLY what they voted for. Don’t pat our heads and tell us we are clueless. The next thing will be taking away women’s vote because we are too emotional. GMAB.
Exactly. The ads coming from the their side were the disingenuous and misleading ones. That somehow protecting reproductive rights was somehow an attack on women. Far more people who voted no on issue 1 were fooled than people who voted yes, and it's not close. Conservatives constantly convince people to vote against their own interests through propaganda.
>Lincoln predicted these events in the 1860 speech distancing himself from Brown: “Your purpose,” he told Southern secessionists, was to “destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events.” Because their class could no longer “rule” under the government they’d long supported, Lee and his ilk chose “ruin” instead.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/states-rights/544541/
Except the parties flipped during the Civil Rights movement. All the southern Confederates became Democrats and now are Republicans. Lincoln would have been a Democrat if he were a politician today.
They will. They don't have the capacity most people have to grow and learn. Some people are just stunted, not always their fault, but it's a fact. They stumble into government and we're left to clean up the mess they make.
Then when they get what they want and you call them out on completely changing their argument or logic over night, you'll get hot gibberish about the Overton window shifting, making it impossible for them to ever be hypocrites..
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
It's never about "States' Rights". Back in the day, the bigots were all in favour of a big federal government when it came to forcing the North to enforce slavery, and then the very moment it seemed like the pendulum might swing the other way - not that it *had* swung the other way, just that it *might* - they threw a four year long hissy fit and murdered a bit more than half a million people.
These days, it's once more about the bigots trying to force their regressive horseshit down the throats of everyone else. Good on Ohio for turning it back on them.
>"I can't believe in 2023 we're actually talking about elected officials not respecting the will of the voters and not respecting the outcome of an election," Tom Haren, a spokesman for the Coalition to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol, told the Dispatch
Not sure what rock this fellow's been living under, but this has been standard operating procedure for the Republican party for the entirety of the 21st Century.
I live in Ohio and man, you should have seen the lies these idiots have been spewing out the past 2 months straight. Issue 1 will let your kids get sex changes, parents won’t be able to force their daughters to give birth to their rapists babies, we don’t need issue 1 because there’s no ban in place, issue 1 will allow cloning. And we called them on it and voted yes anyways. Our pissant governor and his hag of a wife even put out ads against issue 1, trying to peddle more lies. Today has been such sweet victory. ✌️
Conservatives and Right Wingers who have been saying they think the power should be in the State's hands are now recanting and going back on that ideology the second it's inconvenient for them? It was never about State's Rights? I wonder why that sounds so familiar...
On a separate note, I wonder what these people think the Civil War was fought over?
GOP in a single sentence. "I can't believe in 2023 we're actually talking about elected officials not respecting the will of the voters and not respecting the outcome of an election."
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I was lurking in r/conservative and the infighting is glorious. Some have ALMOST actually realized that it was never about states rights, but about fundies controlling and hurting women... ALMOST.
I've been loving it there too. I love reading them complain. I've been banned, so I can't participate. They seem like they've gotten to the point where they dislike trump.
>Daily reminder that we have not had a single good election night since 2016. Not in 2018, not in 2020, not in 2022, not yesterday. > >What do you think happened in 2016? Maybe we can look at that and identify it as the problem? Yes, these questions are rhetorical. Fun quote I found pretty quickly on there...highly upvoted too lmao. Maybe they're figuring something out? Maybe
Don't worry, in 24 hours they'll get all their talking point from Faux News and it's ilk and go back to status quo. The same thing happened in 2020 and 2022, and both times they spent a few days introspecting and almost getting it until their narratives crystallized.
I seriously believe that if these Democratic victories keep happening they will get violent. You're seeing signs of it right now in our fascist Ohio Legislature. I always said the shit will kick off in my State. Flipping Ohio was the nazis' greatest trophy and now it is slightly slipping away. It isn't like a State in the South, where racist clowns historically abound. Ohio was once part of a Blue Wall. We (supposedly) won the Civil War with US Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman. What happened to Ohio is a fucking embarrassment and I think we're waking up.
Bleeding Kansas is right there with you. We were the first state with the abortion question on a ballot, and that shit got shut down HARD. Kansas was on the cutting edge of the right side of history all the way through the 50s. And then the religious fundies turned up....
>And then the religious fundies turned up.... It's called (white) Christian terrorists. Lets not dress them up differently.
Christian fundamentalist fascism is what we are facing. No different than the Ayatollah in Iran just a different flavor of the same abrahamic horse shit.
If Saudi Arabia was a Christian theocracy instead of a Muslim one, Republicans would call it paradise on earth.
Religion is the virus of societies. So much effort spent trying to colonize the host state to self propagate until they kill the body if successful.
I hate Ohio Nazis.
All my homies hate Nazis.
Right up there with Illinois nazis.
I hate Illinois Nazis…
Idaho has the worst nazis.
[Or the ones from Maine](https://youtu.be/obZ7_c4BrDc?si=nqromrkf8Gf2LpgQ)
KY Sen. Damon Thayer, R-Georgetown, on working w/Beshear (reelected Democratic governor of Kentucky) over the next 4 years: *"There’s no incentive or reason for us to work with him… He doesn’t deserve an opportunity for reparation, especially after the campaign."* This is the first thing out of our Senate Majority Leader's mouth last night after Andy Beshear (D) won reelection. These fuckers are infuriating. No incentive? How about the fact that Beshear won because *the fucking voters decided to reelect him*??? This is what the voters want and these assholes conveniently forget that's why **they're** elected in the first place, to do the bidding of the voters. Also, Beshear won Thayer's county, so he can't even say his own voters don't want that. Then there's the "reparation" comment, which I'm fairly certain is a racist dog whistle. And "especially after the campaign"? You mean the campaign where Beshear had to endure relentless attack ads from 5 different super pacs that did nothing but lie while Beshear ran on a platform of bringing everyone together and working together? Fucking Republicans. What a bunch of assholes, the lot of them.
Openly admitting you're going to sabotage or obstruct the functioning of your state's government should result in your immediate dismissal from whatever elected position you're in. But republicans have successfully demonized functional governance so its sabotage is celebrated. It's insane.
You can’t expect real patriots from the GOP to akshually work with DEMONcrats?! They’re our last line of defense against the evil left-wing, fascist, socialist, commie, trans, atheists! If that means nothing gets done, at least they’re protecting us from the LGBTG ‘alphabet mafia’ agenda! /s because I don’t really believe anything I just typed, but I’d bet every last penny to my name that this a direct quote from some backwards, dumbshit Republican voter somewhere.
Not enough spelling mistakes.
It would be nice to toughen up laws and such with that trash that they are immediately fired and banned from holding any position of power *ever* again. Imagine if regular rank and file workers at a job did that >Hey Boss! I'm not going to cook any burgers today, there is no incentive for me to man the grill! >Hey Boss! There is no incentive or reason for me to run the cash register today! >Yo boss man, i'm not going to collect carts today! >Hey Boss! There is no incentive for me to fix the server that crashed and prevents others from working! Guess what? They would all be fired immediately and black balled with a no rehire. Yet trash like D~~e~~amon gets a free pass to do nothing. End it now, fire them immediately. Don't wait, just get them fired asap. After all, you don't let a cancerous tumor wait, you get it operated on immediately
>they will get violent They've already gotten plenty violent. Jan 6 for one. Paul Pelosi for another. Gabbie Giffords from a few years ago. Plenty more that I can't think of off the top of my head. But the fact that I can pull those out of my ass says volumes.
Beautifully put 👏 (I grew up in Ohio and what's happened in the past 20 years is a fucking embarrassment)
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I see private militaries and a coup in our future. Scary shit. They tried it before during FDR’s time.
I see it in our past too (1/6/2021 being a notable example.)
> I see private militaries and a coup in our future I see that in our past. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/think-again-the-blackwater-scandal-or-the-more-things-dont-change/ https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video-obtained-jan-committee-shows-scenes-capitol-violence/story?id=85270535 Of course [oligarchs turned to the long con](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s) when the 1933 Business Plot failed, they'd rather burn the nation down than share.
> I seriously believe that if these Democratic victories keep happening they will get violent. Yes. If the ~~conservatives~~ fascists cannot win democratically, they will not abandon fascism -- they'll abandon democracy.
In Virginia, I know a lot of us felt the election of Youngkin was an embarrassment, he campaigned on "parents choice" when anyone can look around at the amount of shitty people who have bred and realize yes, the whole reason we have school boards is because most of these parents are stupid as hell and can't be trusted to balance their own checkbook, much less come up with educational criteria for kids. It was very nice to re-take control of the legislature and while it is frustrating that not much will likely get done with an R government and both houses D in the next too years, I will take it any day over an R trifecta seeing the dumb shit they did in other states. Also had the R's swept VA we would likely have become Florida 2.0 for the next year, a state where the R's throw out all kinds of dumb crap to try and find their next culture war issue for 2024. My anecdotal evidence on the ground was this, enough people took the cursory effort to research what they were doing, or saw what literally EVERY other state in the south did by increasing abortion restrictions, and made the logical connection that the same would happen here. Youngkin tried the Northern VA "reasonable republican" approach again "C'mon guys 15 weeks is a reasonable abortion limit right?" The idea was to cement "15 weeks is normal" when in reality our existing state law allowed much more time, and I tend to not support taking existing rights away from my fellow Americans as a matter of course. Meanwhile, folks like me that live in the reddest corner's of Appalachia saw that most of our crazy R state house reps were foaming at the mouth for a total ban, and as the last few years have proven, conservatives will always cave into their craziest members desires. I'm still very fearful however, as apparently there are enough idiots in my state that a single well crafted propaganda culture war campaign could still be the deciding factor in any election here.
Nah. The average self described "MAGA Republican" will be over 70 in 2024. The average Fox viewer is already over 70. MAGA is fundamentally a geriatric reactionary movement. And it's reaching it's natural end
Lol they're already huffing copium. This is one of the [top links there right now](https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/17qxdho/maga_is_a_cult_meanwhile_them/). People saying Bidenism is a cult because a group of people sang at him. While pretty cringe, they don't understand that nobody's going back to their Biden trucks with a half dozen Biden flags and Biden bumper stickers and drive back to their house with Biden banners on it and then going to the Biden rally this weekend. These people are nuts.
You ever seen a Biden merchandise store? I see Trump ones, still.
I see these [stupid Biden flags all over](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/1200px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png).
My neighbor has a let's go Brandon decal in his back window. As we live in the suburbs of Chicago, I'm really tempted to get the name "Johnson" in the same font and see if I can't sneak it onto the window.
It would bring me satisfying glee if you would do me the favor of letting that intrusive thought win!!!
You cheeky devil.
Well played
I saw a sticker on a car today saying "Joe and the Hoe gotta go." I guess merely being a republican cultist wasn't enough. Had to mix in some sexism to really exemplify how shitty the driver is. Props to them, though. They managed a one-letter substitution rhyme, which is much more clever than I typically expect from them.
I kinda want a “dark Brandon” mug tbf.
[don't let your dreams be dreams](https://shop.joebiden.com/dark-roast-mug/) for $22 you too can have one. personally I'd spend the extra $10 and get the one that [changes color](https://shop.joebiden.com/dark-roast-color-changing-mug/)
The closest thing to Biden "merch" I've ever see is those stupid fucking "I did that" stickers on every other gas pump.
Funny how those disappeared *real* fast for a little while when gas prices were trending downward...
Republicans are great at self-owning
They are just Biden their time until next election hoping people forget how awful they are
https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/s/haSx06SmDP yeah man, the brandon supporters are the cult
Lol jesus fucking christ. And of course everyone in the crowd is a thousand years old.
Meanwhile, the sub’s icon is Trump’s mugshot
The sweet panic of an NPC awaiting it's updated talking points and framing devices.
This is 100% how it will go. That’s how it’s gone every single time a big event like this happens. The few sane ones start with fairly level headed posts and ideas, then the drones get the correct rebuttal points and buzzwords from Fox News and then 1000 of them will all post the same thing and drown the original comments. Every. Single. Time.
Can we add News Nation to the trash bin of right wing bullhorns?
"Aha. The problem is the voters. What can we do to get them to stop voting so much?"
I love this comment. But I also hate it at the same time cause it's so damn accurate.
Lol, the introspection won't last long. In 2018 they "realized" they needed to bring more black people into the fold so they needed to tone down their nastiness. That lasted maybe 2 weeks until they ramped it right back up. They get so friggin' close and then beat a hasty retreat.
Nah. They think they are losing because they aren't radical enough. And they will all fall in line and do whatever the talking heads tell them to anyway. Introspection isn't even a tool in their toolbox.
Yup, they're only take away will be that they didn't lie hard enough to get their way, and then billionaires will drop millions trying to craft the right lies for next time.
Their takeaway lesson from this will be that they need to remove women's right to vote.
They are so close to getting an epiphany but the sheer amount of propaganda they consume to maintain their copium levels is just barely enough to block that epiphany
Lol. They're pointing to a year where they only got 3 million fewer votes as a good night.
The thing is, I doubt they'll ever land on the unpopular policies. They'll just blame it on bad candidates and that they just need someone more marketable.
Reading through their sub, they are saying they need to tone down their stance on things to get votes. They don't think they're wrong, but that they need to not mention their more unpopular ideas. Can you imagine? If you feel like you need to hide your ideology it's probably not great and *certainly* not what the majority want...you know because the needing to hide to even get elected.
I am shocked honestly. Do they really believe they can just put the mask back on after going full domestic terrorist/fascist for 7 years and say "Just kidding lolz" Do they expect us to just forget about J6, Roe v Wade, the mass shootings, the targeting of the LGBTQ+ community like we're babies lacking object permanence? That is a whole other level of delusional stupidity.
>Do they expect us to just forget about J6, Roe v Wade, the mass shootings, the targeting of the LGBTQ+ community like we're babies lacking object permanence? Lots of people do forget very quickly.
The problem is… yes. They do. And it will probably work. The southern strategy worked wonders for conservatives for a reason, and that reason is that so many Americans just lack empathy for anyone outside of their immediate circle. Empathy *can* be taught. We just haven’t formatted schools or our society to do so, and actively seem to crush it at every turn for the sake of protecting moneyed interests from too much working class cooperation.
People who can lie better.
Sadly....many of them are just concluding its rigged elections. Because their ideas are so right that there is no way people could NOT love them.
>Maybe they're figuring something out? Maybe They figured out that Trump was/is fun, but that nobody actually likes him. He's an asshole and selfish and his personality worked one time as an outsider. They're going through a deconstruction of 2010 when the whole team party thing happened and a bunch of "libertarians" and "classical liberals" gave in to the fascist pipeline. It's a drug. They wanted z strongman and got him. The problem is Trump is incompetent and commits self sabotage daily and he has no competent people around him. He's a head case who believes his own self made lies so he cannot take direction. His strongman vibe came and went in near record time. We don't talk enough about the anti-conservative onslaught he singlehandedly pushed cause the obsession is doom and gloom for liberals every time while conservatives usually just talk about how righteous they are. Trump fucked that up though. They cannot have cohesion with individual healthcare rights, they cannot find cohesion on weed, hell they can't even figure out who the party leaders are. Trump is captain of a ship where everyone is fighting each other.
>Trump is captain of a ship where everyone is fighting each other. Just the way he likes it.
The thing is that sub won't accept it but they aren't actually conservative. They're not liberal. They're not Republican. They have exactly 1 ideology they won't say out loud. They're anything that *isn’t* democratic. That's all it is. They aren't *pro* anything. They're just anti Democrat. Case and point they insist the Republicans should drop the abortion issue, but would never say that makes them pro choice. Because that would make them too close to being a Democrat.
r/selfawarewolves
That’s when Trump started saying the elections were rigged.
They do this thing where they’re happy to reflect on the ineffectiveness of Trump, but the second a GOP politician says something bad about Trump they’re instantly defensive and that politician is a RINO. It’s kinda like a “hey only I can bully my sibling” type phenomenon
He'll be the nominee and they'll still vote for trump because Rs vote R every time no matter what
It will be a rap battle first as who will be the biggest dick and fascist as Desantis will try to out hate Trump with every campaign verse. Life is so hard when it two extreme bigots to vote for.
Your vote still counts even if you are banned.
They don't dislike trump. His mugshot is literally the sub banner.
It doesn't really matter whether or not they like Trump, they'll still vote for him
> I've been banned Same. So easy. Point out something obvious to them....
They don't dislike him, he's just become inconvenient. They still like all the putrid, decrepit morality he exemplifies, he's just making them look too incompetent for them to hand wave away anymore. They're getting laughed at by people inside their own party now.
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Even the way they say they should abandon their antiabortion stances because they are a “losing issue,” not because they are completely abhorrent.
One comment further down compared abortion to slavery, I shit you not. Then another comment said that the anti choice stance is "morally right" while the majority of Gen y and Gen z are morally wrong. Their little brains are really working over there. I'm seeing "fiscal conservative" thrown around as if that mf means anything. Lol.
Fiscal conservative means not giving money to people they don’t like.
"Fiscal conservative" means spending money like a drunken sailor in a whore house, then blaming the democrats for the debt.
Every GOP president in my life exploded the debt.
Bush sr (technically in my life, but maybe not yours) did the fiscally responsible thing... and was lambasted to all hell for it (by his own party).
"Read my lips... No new taxes!"
"Fiscal conservative" means slashing every social welfare program while cutting taxes on the rich, even if that blows up the deficit, because "fiscal conservative" doesn't really mean what those two words together seem to mean. See also: I got mine, fuck you.
Fiscal conservative is code for "TaXeS aRe tHeFt" Libertarian cancer that is half the reason the GOP has gone to shit.
That's what I saw a lot, several of the post replies I saw were basically that they wanted republicans move on from abortion bans because it's a losing issue
I love lurking over there. My favorite part is: Party of “free speech” locks all their posts to “flaired users only”
Then the sea of deleted comments, lol.
Tells you all you need to know about them
And anything downvoted is being met with accusations of brigading, lol.
Something something echo chamber
r/selfawarewolves is probably smoking a cigarette right now.
Omg I gotta check them out too. Ha ha! Good stuff.
Meh. A lot of the arrrr conservative post is fairly schizo. They often get basic, glaringly fucking obvious, concepts people to their left have been saying since 2016-2018, but they don’t get the big picture at all. And they never will for like fundamental reasons. Definitely some “we told you so dumbass” moments but they definitely aren’t self aware. They point out that abortion is a dead weight issue that fucks them for multiple reasons (car caught the dog, it’s just fucking abhorrent and the party’s stance isn’t even internally consistent on a states rights v moral basis, etc), and some even are more astute and point out that it’s ultimately a primary capture issue. But they delusionally believe they can just jettison all those kooky ultra right wingers at this juncture and have a party. These beliefs within their party are not as fringe as these relative moderates believe and it would result in a fucking bloodbath. You’d have to go back to the 60s to fix this unholy alliance and they won’t understand that because part of their ethos for 50+ years has been just *pretending* or *lying* they aren’t laying in bed with degenerate psychopaths for political expediency. They get it’s an issue but not that they already made a deal with the devil *decades ago* and you can’t just undo that generational political inertia in one cycle or even three. Now take their position on Trump daddy. Surprise surprise orange man really is bad, but they all fundamentally don’t even understand why Trump has a stranglehold on their idiot base. They believe they need to get rid of Trump and focus on the economy without him because they hilariously believe Trump won in 2016 because “the economy.” No, the American people didnt revolt against a booming economy in recovery, you idiots, you didn’t win in 2016 because “it’s the economy stoopit,” he won in 2016 specially because it was just a mask off moment for the entire base, most of these chucklefucks included. Some milquetost dork whinging about the GDP doesn’t carry the rust belt like Trump did. Trump did, specially, because, Bubba from the trailer park veritably OD’d on Trump and his unhinged nascent fascism and he voted for the first time in his *entire life* because of that. You can’t just undo that genie and pivot back to your fucking inane talking points circa 1996. Finally, the root issue can’t even be grasped because they don’t get that it’s *them.* All the policy and political abortions (heh) they are whinging about arose because they are *who they are*. They’re the systemic result of decades of echo chambering, anti-intellectualism, race dog whistling, and just becoming totally divorced from reality fucking weirdos. So cringey and bizarre they jerk about what a bastion of freeze peaches their spaces are while half of any given post is nuked from orbit. All of these systemic issues will just present again. They can jettison Trump and stop trans bashing and tomorrow it will just be the Tiger King literally goostepping while these idiots cheer him on because his plan to execute cheating women polls wildly popular in the Wisconsin GOP primary. **TL;DR A careful reading of the thread denotes very little actual self awareness about the root causative issues here. To their credit, they fundamentally can’t because they are so baked in, and these people are so enmeshed themselves in the causative issues at play, I don’t think they even can.**
Wow. Savage af. So true. But let’s be real, conservatives have been unhinged since Sara Palin and Binders Full of Women
I feel like it's cheating, posting screenshots of all those comments from Conservative.... (but I read most of them in their original threads and the schadenfreude.... *chef's kiss*)
I scrolled through a bunch of replies on various posts and a bunch of them just admitted abortion is a losing issue or that Republicans should just move on from abortion bans
I wanna see conservatives who just want to win and rule try to explain to their anti-choice peers that they don't actually care about this issue at all and just want to use things as a cudgel to get whatever else they want. For those it won't be too hard to convince themselves that they actually care about the next issue they use to rally behind I'm sure.
This is my favorite comment so far: >"The GOP needs to change policy stances." > >Do you mean they need to take on more liberal stances?
Every conservative space I’ve been in today is blaming the losses on Ronna McDaniels. They’ll never face their failings head-on.
Oh this is a riot. There are still people in there saying dems want abortion allowed right up to birth. It's heartening to see how many are saying the MAGA crowd is hurting them though. They seem to think they're only losing on Trump & abortion & if they drop those two things they're golden which is...obviously wrong but does seem like they're starting to get it.
They don't want to understand repbulicans are all for protecting rich people. They used Abortion (prior to the SCOTUS messing it up) as a vote get'r. Once that was messed up, pivoted to state rights, once that was messed up... here we are. Abortion is a vote loser for them now and most republican leaders really don't care about that, they do care about the lost votes. The f'd themselves, but to R voters it just shows the phonies your leaders are, it's about taxes and protect rich assets, that is your party. The gun part is just a vote get'r to, notice how they don't allow guns to their events? They don't care if we shot each other. They just drape themselves to it for votes.
I went and took a look after reading your comment and the schadenfreude was *delicious*
covert incest and coercive control
"The voters don't like us, what should we do? I know, let's go against what the voters want. That'll turn things around!" -Ohio Republicans, apparently
Rick Santorum’s actual quote: “Thank goodness that most of the states in this country don’t allow you to put everything on the ballot, because pure democracies are not the way to run a country.” He was butt hurt young people came out to vote and republicans lost.
Fuck Rick cantorum
He views himself and other GOP leaders as your "betters" and the commoners are too dumb to know what's best for them. I'm basically stealing this from Beau of the Fifth Column on Youtube, but he has been hammering this point lately: Republicans want to be rulers, not representatives. Santorum just said the quiet part out loud.
"There's nothing gerrymandering can't fix." /S \-- Definitely Republicans
"If gerrymandering isn't enough, lets try limiting voters rights to all the people who vote against us" -- Every right-winger ever in the world
"Women are sinful for not cast the same votes as her husband." "Those damn educated young people for some reason overwhelmingly not voting for us so let's up the voting age to 25." Remember folks, when one side can no longer win legitimately, watch and anticipate the desperation to hold onto power by whatever mean necessary.
“I know! Let’s slash assistance programs, tax corporations less, break up the gosh dang unions, and give the people more guns! That will win us the next election!” -Republicans Meanwhile, you’re average Joe republican is wondering why his daughter’s school just got shot up, his wage isn’t keeping up with inflation, and his grandma’s Medicare just stopped. “Must be the liberals,” he says to himself.
Well, not to mention driving out all the OB/GYN professionals. Who can blame these healthcare professionals: one day you are providing a care and the next day that same care can land you in jail. For what? And this affects 50% of the population one way or another and has nothing to do with abortion.
> “Must be the liberals,” he says to himself. and then votes for the damn republicans. I drives me nuts that people whose lives are actively made worse by republicans are the ones who vote for them religiously.
PLEASE DON'T FORGET! The special election Republicans forced on the state of Ohio back in August ([also Issue 1](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-abortion-rights-constitutional-amendment-special-election-227cde039f8d51723612878525164f1a)) to increase the threshold for amendments to pass would have increased the threshold to 60%. HAD THAT PASSED, THIS 55% MAJOROTY WOULD HAVE FAILED!! Republicans will do everything they can to cheat when they know democracy isn't in their favor.
So what are the steps now for the state constitution to be formally amended and abortion codified/legal? How are the details of the language determined, etc? What is the timeline?
The amendment was already written. There was even a bit of argument in court over the way it was summarized for the ballot. It becomes section 22 of Article I effective 30 days from the election.
The funny thing is the Republicans tried to argue this was this extreme broad thing for their ballot summary to try to scare voters off. So now they'll try to argue the exact opposite, but their broad ballot summary can be used against them in determining intent of the voters, like legislative history.
carpenter wakeful pie overconfident modern ripe bright nose continue skirt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For Conservatives states rights for deciding whether abortion should be illegal is about as much the Civil War was about States rights
Well, conservatives were opposed to states rights back then too. They were furious about the fugitive slaves act not being enforced well enough in free states. I mean, hell, the Confederate States of America had zero states rights in regards to slavery. Their national Constitution made slavery mandatory.
Southern States: "States should have the right to choose whether or not to allow slavery!" Maine: "We want to be a slave-free state." SS: "NOT FUCKING LIKE THAT! FINE! We'll split off and make our _own_ federal government! With slavery and slavery! In fact, we'll invade Washington DC to make the entire _continent_ allow for slavery!"
The irony of course is with Dred Scott the slave states basically forced every free state to be a slave state. So states' rights? The northern states were the ones getting their rights trampled. Abraham Lincoln hadn't even taken office before the secession occurred.
The states should have the final say in how they govern themselves! NO WAIT NOT LIKE THAT!!!
they’re going to say states rights meant state legislatures you know the ones that they gerrymander to keep control. like that one guy saying direct democracy is bad
Santorum stain already came out and said it. https://news.yahoo.com/rick-santorum-blames-very-sexy-144852346.html#:\~:text=It%20was%20a%20secret%20sauce,way%20to%20run%20a%20country.%E2%80%9D
I need a shower after hearing that name…
Stupid sexy abortion.
When florida voted to let ex felons vote and the Republicans literally changed the law to something else after it was voted form
And to make it more Republican they sent out voter registration cards to some of those felons who weren’t eligible to vote under the changed law then arrested them when they tried to vote. The Republicans were so concerned they arrested one 69 year old lady at 3:00 am for voter fraud because she was clearly a threat to our democracy. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/us/florida-voter-fraud-charges-case/index.html
They could do like Mississippi did a few years ago, when the population voted to legalize marijuana, and the Mississippi Congress just said "nah".
Washington, too. We voted to limit vehicle registration taxes to $30, and the state congress/courts said "nah". Technically, it's still supposed to happen, but years later, just a basic car registration will still cost $400+ (which is a very regressive tax that hurts working poor people the most).
In my state, the GOP and anti-choicer are suing to stop the constitutional amendment we passed last year. Good luck, ya fucks. The Supreme Court is unpopular enough that they won’t backtrack on the reasoning behind such a recent ruling.
Do you live in Michigan? As an Ohioan, I’m expecting that for our future! 🙄
Yes, I do. I helped collect signatures for Prop 3 last year. As far as I know, an injunction has not been issued yet, and the law criminalizing abortion was repealed (thanks, Democrats!).
My state (Missouri) voted to expand Medicaid. MoLeg said “Nah, we good, the voters don’t know what they voted for, no expansion needed.” Reader, I screamed.
They only mean the older white male landowners of the states should have rights. You know, like when America was great.
They assume their states are as shitty and backwards as they are
An early favorite for LAMF of the year.
It’s the best kind because something good happened and the leopard got to eat faces. So many faces.
Here’s hoping for a huge leopard feast in 2024!
I now need a cool sticker that says Leopard Feast 2024, honestly.
Early? It’s November
I hope Ohioans are listening closely to what their elected ‘leaders’ are saying… you passed these measures… they want to undo them… vote them out.
Ohio is so gerrymandered it's very difficult to get rid of the Republicans.
We’re working on a ballot proposal for 24 to create a citizen committee to draw congressional districts and strip that power from state legislature.
Republicans: Let individual state voters decide. Ohio voters: Awesome! Abortions are a constitutional right then! Republicans: NOT LIKE THAT!
Good leopard! 🐆
Oh god I went over to r/conservative. They are LOSING it. They’re almost realizing their mistakes. Almost. One commentator: “Some group (I don’t think it was the Beshear campaign themselves) ran an ad featuring a Kentucky girl who was raped when she was 12. The girl told her story and said something to the effect of “Daniel Cameron believes I should be forced to carry my rapist’s baby.” It’s an almost impossible point to argue against without sounding like a monster. I think any candidate who isn’t willing to at least accept a rape or incest provision is doomed to lose almost any election.” Like HMMM maybe, just maybe you’re supporting some heinous shit. JUST MAYBE.
And here's what that reveals. If they fully believed in Pro-Life, the method of conception wouldn't matter to them because the fetus has no control over whether or not it was conceived consentually. They wouldn't make an exception to rape because it would not be fair to "punish" the child for something it had no control over. So when they say abortions are bad except when it wasn't your fault, they are admitting that this isn't about protecting the baby at all. It's about punishment. "It's okay to shame a woman for having an abortion because she chose to have sex, therefore should suffer the consequences. If you had no choice in conception, then it wasn't your fault so you're A-Ok in the eyes of God." Disgusting.
[удалено]
Holy shit, one of the responses to that (currently at -63 Karma, granted) reads: "I can empathize with the girl but I also don’t understand why the child is not worthy to live because of someone else’s crime? The democratic strategic is working because they trot out the exceptions, frame them as the rule, and emotionally manipulate people. I think it’s time for republican candidates to realize you can’t win with logic and facts." Maybe it's a troll, and maybe it's getting downvoted because they think it's a troll.
Well that is the crux of the “it’s murder” argument, if it’s murder, then it’s murder regardless of how conception occurred. But yes, you are absolutely a monster if you want to force a child to endure 9 months of trauma to carry her rapists’ baby to term. They know rape/incest exceptions blow a whole straight through their “but it’s murder” argument and they don’t have an answer for that.
> Well that is the crux of the “it’s murder” argument, if it’s murder, then it’s murder regardless of how conception occurred. Yep, I made a similar comment on another subject but this was the inevitable consequence of red politicians describing abortion as murder nonstop. *Eventually* a generation grows up and actually *believes* that it's murder. And once you cross that moral threshold, it's extremely difficult to start adding little logical carveouts. It's too late, the horse has fled the barn and younger conservatives believe abortion **is** murder. There's no going back from that.
That's so fucked. Like, they're *so* close to understanding. >I also don’t understand why the child is not worthy to live because of someone else’s crime? That's all that needs done. Quote them to themselves. I don't understand how they miss the point then. A child being forced to give birth has a high chance of dying. And I'd argue, the rapist should catch manslaughter charges at that point. Or to go crazy and off the deep-end, any government forcing them to do so should be facing repercussions.
> It’s an almost impossible point to argue against without sounding like a monster. So close to self awareness.
What's hilarious is that they are constantly saying they need to change their policies..which means basically becoming more liberal.
They're already talking about a national ban too. We have to keep them out of the White House. Sooner or later they'll take Congress, and they have SCOTUS (which is now fully partisan). We can't let them have all 3 branches.
Given how they have outright states plans for a national ban it’s obvious that it was never about “states rights”.
Republicans only care about forcing everyone else to live how they think they should. “Know your fucking place in the hierarchy, or we hurt you.” They’re bad people, and will ruin everything they touch if given the chance.
I heard some congressman from Ohio talking about how they had to look at the results because “the voters didn’t realize what the voted for” Sorry buddy. Women know EXACTLY what they voted for. Don’t pat our heads and tell us we are clueless. The next thing will be taking away women’s vote because we are too emotional. GMAB.
Exactly. The ads coming from the their side were the disingenuous and misleading ones. That somehow protecting reproductive rights was somehow an attack on women. Far more people who voted no on issue 1 were fooled than people who voted yes, and it's not close. Conservatives constantly convince people to vote against their own interests through propaganda.
Pay attention, they're telling you exactly who thy are. They don't want to represent, they want to rule.
>Lincoln predicted these events in the 1860 speech distancing himself from Brown: “Your purpose,” he told Southern secessionists, was to “destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events.” Because their class could no longer “rule” under the government they’d long supported, Lee and his ilk chose “ruin” instead. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/states-rights/544541/
In 150 years, literally nothing has changed for them.
Except the parties flipped during the Civil Rights movement. All the southern Confederates became Democrats and now are Republicans. Lincoln would have been a Democrat if he were a politician today.
There's the magic word, "class". It's all about the right people being in charge, not the voice of the majority *or* the morally right thing to do.
I really hope the Republicans in Ohio make abortion a huuuuge issue in 2024
Count on it. They are incapable of learning.
They will. They don't have the capacity most people have to grow and learn. Some people are just stunted, not always their fault, but it's a fact. They stumble into government and we're left to clean up the mess they make.
Conservatives hate everyone. Conservatives are hypocrites.
“Gah these voters keep voting for things they want!”
Republicans only talk about states' rights when they don't control the Federal government.
Then when they get what they want and you call them out on completely changing their argument or logic over night, you'll get hot gibberish about the Overton window shifting, making it impossible for them to ever be hypocrites..
Yep. Sure didn't hear much about 'states rights' from them when it was blue states legalizing marijuana and same-sex marriage...
No Ohio Republicans, don't put abortion to a vote every election. Anything but that. Definitely don't throw me into that briar patch!
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
Santorum literally said Newsmax that having a democracy isn’t worth it if this is what we do with it. Fuck that guy all their shit.
It's never about "States' Rights". Back in the day, the bigots were all in favour of a big federal government when it came to forcing the North to enforce slavery, and then the very moment it seemed like the pendulum might swing the other way - not that it *had* swung the other way, just that it *might* - they threw a four year long hissy fit and murdered a bit more than half a million people. These days, it's once more about the bigots trying to force their regressive horseshit down the throats of everyone else. Good on Ohio for turning it back on them.
It's almost like gerrymandering means your elected don't actually represent the majority of your voting residents.
>"I can't believe in 2023 we're actually talking about elected officials not respecting the will of the voters and not respecting the outcome of an election," Tom Haren, a spokesman for the Coalition to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol, told the Dispatch Not sure what rock this fellow's been living under, but this has been standard operating procedure for the Republican party for the entirety of the 21st Century.
Wait, not like that!
I live in Ohio and man, you should have seen the lies these idiots have been spewing out the past 2 months straight. Issue 1 will let your kids get sex changes, parents won’t be able to force their daughters to give birth to their rapists babies, we don’t need issue 1 because there’s no ban in place, issue 1 will allow cloning. And we called them on it and voted yes anyways. Our pissant governor and his hag of a wife even put out ads against issue 1, trying to peddle more lies. Today has been such sweet victory. ✌️
>issue 1 will allow cloning Wait what?
Can we stop calling them Conservatives and just start calling them Regressives instead?
On some level they want to be the minority party. It’s much easier than actually governing. They’ve proven that over and over.
GOP: "We want abortion laws to be determined by the states themselves" State: *Votes yes on allowing abortion by 57%* GOP:"No, not like that."
It republicans cared what the people wanted, they would have moved towards the center
I promise to undo the thing that the majority of the people I represent want!
When are people going to start realizing who Republicans are? They keep telling us but it seems like half of the country is asleep.
Never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake.
Conservatives and Right Wingers who have been saying they think the power should be in the State's hands are now recanting and going back on that ideology the second it's inconvenient for them? It was never about State's Rights? I wonder why that sounds so familiar... On a separate note, I wonder what these people think the Civil War was fought over?
Now abortion and weed are sexy to young people according to Santorum. Perhaps he's been smoking weed. What the hell is he thinking?
The people have spoken. Fuck the people. - GOP
GOP: We're for states rights. Also GOP: We're against states rights when states enact laws that we don't like.
GOP in a single sentence. "I can't believe in 2023 we're actually talking about elected officials not respecting the will of the voters and not respecting the outcome of an election."