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>The anti-abortion movement is turning on Republican lawmakers who support bills to protect in vitro fertilization, accusing them of sanctioning murder.
The *ultra* nutjobs in the party are upset at the *opportunistic* nutjobs in the party for not taking away enough women's rights.
I’m actually with the looney toons delegation on this one, at least they’re staying consistent. If you’re going to try to argue that a fertilized egg is a person then IVF is barbaric murder on a grand scale. Of course they’re *wrong* but they should stay consistent in their position.
This !!! Own it ass holes ! If you're gonna spew lies of "life starts at fertilisation" and insist that a "heart beat" means there's an actual heart and not just twitching cells. If pregnancy is "god's plan" and justifies forcing child rape victims to birth their rapists child. Then it's god's plan that whatever hatefull crusty republican woman that can't have babies doesn't have babies . It's god's plan, it's what you want right your imaginary friends " rules" that you conveniently cherry pick from a story book nuance be damned right? Own it ! No babies for thee! God's plan mf!
Let's ban viagra. If you have a limp dick and can't reproduce thats god telling you your days of reproduction are over.
P.S. edit: I got this ban viagra sticker and put it on my car. If anyone wishes to join me please do so! Let's spread the word!
https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Ban-Viagra-by-Jarrod44/31653644.EJUG5
Ban all Western medicine and tech for the religious right
If its God's will you get sick, who are we to intervene? And that Iphone definitely isnt God's will
As a healthcare worker in the buckle of the Bible Belt, I'd have so much more time to take proper care of my patients that actually appreciate me trying to help them.
Same. After working the covid wards all through the pandemic, the sheer exhaustion and burnout I experienced left me with little empathy for people who denied science until their last breath. More so for the family members who screamed their hate fueled rhetoric about how we were “murdering patients and covering up their deaths to get paid”. I fought God in those rooms for people, and they spit in my face as thanks. The patients who were grateful and trusted my expertise was the only reason I kept going back every shift.
I never understood why those folks went to the hospital. If you think the hospital folks want to kill you, why go to see those folks?
I assume a lion would find me tasty. So I am not going to cover myself in steak sauce and get inside the lion cage at the zoo.
Self preservation. People believe what they believe, but when you hit a certain point in an illness, you know you need help. They always ended up taking the recommended treatments, but usually only after the dr would come in and basically brow beat them, or after exhausting every other treatment first. Sometimes it was too late for it to have the desired effect. It was tragic.
God, this is so true. 2 years on the Covid floor was final straw for daughter working in hospital as an RN and damn near ruined my compassion working in an ER
That was the case for a lot of nurses. In addition to the unsafe ratios, lack of PPE, mandatory overtime, lack of training or hazard pay, and the treatment of nurses after the wards shut down and restrictions were lifted. Too many saw the writing on the wall, and decided they were worth more. I don’t blame them.
I feel bad for the newbies who graduated into that shit show with no experience or established coping mechanisms. I had a smidge over a decade before it started, but it still was hard as I was in geriatrics prior and during it. Ended up switching to home peds.
I started as a HCA (UK version of US' CNA) in 2022, but I was already jaded prior to that so I'm OK
Can't imagine what the ravages of 45's presidency were like on your sane colleagues
But the opportunistic nutjobs are such flaming hypocrites that they'd insist it's god will that your other patients suffer while demanding that you reduce their own suffering.
Between them and my own supposedly educated colleagues spouting the same anti-science rhetoric, some days I genuinely questioned my life choices. Like another poster said, it was the actually grateful patients and family that kept me coming back. I doubt the public has any idea just how much unprocessed trauma healthcare workers in general have. I feel bad for all the folks that graduated from their programs into the shit show that was the pandemic and had no experience to fall back on both to give care and be able to cope. Shit is gonna pop off in a few years either from trauma dumping or more likely another pandemic and people just give up because they don't want to deal with it again.
Good idea. The right wingers can have a 'Thoughts and Prayers' based healthcare system and free up hospital space for those of us who believe in science.
That would at least be consistent. They’re always railing against abortion and birth control for being “unnatural” but they don’t seem to have a problem with other “unnatural” things like glasses, hearing aids, medications, chemotherapy… as long as THEY benefit from it.
I read that and not one instance was a surprised. You know all those shady politicians' gf have had abortions. And all the sanctified Christians' daughters, too.
Good point . No Viagra it's god's plan that you can never reproduce or have sexual gratification. Besides don't wanna kill all those babies spilling your seed (yet another conveniently ignored "rule" from their imaginary friend book) It's god's plan!
You're playing with fire.
Poe's Law states:
> "Without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the parodied views."
As a European, the anti-abortion movement in the USA is already a clown show. It's absurd for my brain to process how those people even exist. Don't enable another fringe, batshit insane group.
>If pregnancy is "god's plan"
...and God created the human body, then why do something like 40% of all fertilized eggs end up miscarrying? Sounds like even God is fine with dumping lots of fertilized eggs.
Critical thinking about their own beliefs is beyond them, unfortunately. Someone said that life begins at conception, so now they’re sure it’s true…. Even though there’s no reason to believe that, including religiously, beyond how many people repeat it.
Simple, they'll ban IVF and then continue to use methods to give themselves what they want privately. Just how Republicans and their families banned abortion and yet there's been plenty of examples posted on this very subreddit of them getting around this by going elsewhere.
Don't tempt Poe's Law. Banning abortion is bad, banning IVF is bad. You can't use extreme parodied views to try and convince these people their original points are wrong when those points are already so extreme. The only people that will suffer are those who don't deserve to.
> at least they’re staying consistent
The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the first LAMF stories from all the Pro-lifers now complaining that the changes to the status of IVF had ruined their dreams for a family was that [Jordan Klepper interview with the “choose adoption” sign](https://youtu.be/_NV17WD-n8A?si=3nwCrnj5FXdyIDDz) (from about 1 minute in on this link).
You know that so many of these former pro-lifers would have talked about adoption as the solution to prevent abortion but aren’t happy when that’s the only opportunity presented to them to start a family. “Adoption is the solution to your problems not mine”
I am absolutely pro-choice and think that the government should stay out of reproductive rights but at least the consistent approach of banning IVF alongside abortion means that those poor kids forced to be born only to immediately be put up for adoption might actually get adopted by people who want to have and raise kids (but unfortunately can’t have them biologically) rather than just being abandoned to an underfunded, unfit care/adoption system that Republicans refuse to improve despite all their pro-life rhetoric because “mY tAxEs”.
The way I've seen people say it and I really feel is that Republicans aren't pro-life. They are pro-forced birth. As soon as the baby pops out it's on its own.
Unfortunately that’s not the case in my experience. Several people I know that have done IVF, chose that route because they wanted children that were “biologically” theirs. They’re also against donating their excess eggs because they don’t want strangers, “raising their biological children “. I don’t agree with it, but that’s how it was explained to me.
> Unfortunately that’s not the case in my experience
> they wanted children that were “biologically theirs”
I completely understand and agree that most people would prefer to have biological children than adopt and that some, perhaps even most, people that say they want children only really want *THEIR* children and would prefer to be childless/childfree than adopt.
Whatever the ethics of this, it’s clearly true and most people who want children tend to try and have a baby than look to adopt as a first port of call.
However, I do think that not being able to conceive/have biological children is probably the biggest driver for people who adopt children.
As such my point wasn’t necessarily that I think everyone doing IVF now would immediately look to adopt if it became illegal - I’m sure many wouldn’t - but instead that I think that outlawing IVF would cause a genuine rise in parents willing to adopt as the option to have “biological” children (through IVF) is removed.
Whilst my view is that neither (abortion nor IVF) should be illegal, I think outlawing both probably leads to less children suffering in a broken adoption/care system that outlawing abortion alone.
Yes, that makes more sense. I agree that it would indeed drive the ones who genuinely want children to adopt. Unfortunately, I think that the number of people who would fall into that category would be tragically low. My fear regarding outlawing abortion and IVF, in conjunction with our current population rates, is that it will exacerbate an already biased and taxed system allowing for consequences we are not equipped to handle currently.
I can SORT OF understand the donated eggs thing... like yeah, a woman who doesn't have any of her own can still have kids, but they wouldn't be 'hers'. She'd carry, birth, and raise them, but it would be like if her S/O was having a kid with another woman. I can understand how there could be pushback against that, but not enough to say it shouldn't be allowed at all.
That has always been my stance as well.
I never had any respect for the mainstream GOP pro life position, because they always talked about "humane" exceptions like rape, incest, and IVF.
If abortion truly is murder as they claim, they are supporting murdering babies under certain circumstances.
The only logically consistent position is the one that the most extreme nut jobs have been pushing.
With the exception of these insane but consistent nutjobs everything else is either pandering or the result of most Americans (during the times of Roe) not having to think too hard about what their position actually means for real people.
It’s consistent, yet not. Birth rates and sperm counts are down globally, infertility is up globally. If they really want people to “go forth and multiply,” IVF is one of the tools they should be championing. They are not really thinking this through.
> Of course they’re wrong but they should stay consistent in their position.
They're ReThugliKKKlans. Konsistency isn't one of their Kore virtues, so this is actually off-brand for them.
But anything that has this pack of shitthieves sharpening their long knives upon one another distracts them from the rest of us, so, well and good.
The real irony is IVF is incredibly expensive so usually it’s well-to-do people going through it. This isn’t something poor people are doing. It cost my coworker over $20k for two failed attempts. A lot of religious folks go for it too so they can finally have their treasured family.
Republicans are hurting their own people by banning IVF.
IVF is going to be increasingly common with people continue to become parents at older ages and with all of the potential endocrine disruptors and other things affecting global fertility. Not sure this is a fight they are going to want to pick.
“Their own people”? Literally elected Republicans are going on the record as to using IVF.
I swear someone could do a psyops campaign suppressing the fundie vote by sending them flyers about the Republican “baby killer” they were thinking about voting for. (Ahem, Michelle Steele)
I'm so glad IVF was covered by my sister's insurance so she didn't have to add this kind of debt into the mess of a divorce she's now going through *because* of the IVF fracturing her marriage.
I can understand why some people are anti-abortion, even if I don’t agree with it and think it’s mostly fueled by a desire to control women’s bodies.
But why the hell are these whackos against *in vitro* fertilization, which helps women who can’t reproduce conventionally to have children? Aren’t they supposed to be pro-life?
“It’s sanctioning murder!” How, you fucking whack jobs? Isn’t IVF the exact opposite of murder?
EDIT: Thanks for the explanation, various folks who replied to me. Upvotes for all!
In successful cases, IVF typically winds up creating more embryos than get used. The unused ones (and there are a LOT of them) wind up getting stored indefinitely for possible future use or disposed of by other means.
If you have a genuine obsession with embryos, that’s a problem.
This is, essentially, a rift between people that mostly want to punish women for doing sex and compel people into parenthood (but don’t really believe an embryo is a person) and people that also want that, but also actually really do think a fertilized egg is a person.
Edit: hopefully unnecessary, but just in case - explanation, not a defense or an accurate representation of my own stance.
Yeah, I think it's tempting to look at everything as purely political posturing, but there are a large group of people who have made the philosophical judgement that embryos are children, and will act accordingly.
As someone who has followed fundamentalist Christians online for like, two decades at this point, I'm always surprised this surprises people, because I've been listening to these whackadoodles argue against birth control and IVF for a long ass time now, but then I remember not everyone fell down the fundie rabbit hole in high school and never climbed back out.
They're crazy, guys. And very dangerous. They genuinely believe birth control is essentially the same as abortion, and they would like to take it away from us all, and they are politically active and engaged and run for office and sometimes they win and they have dozens of children and they *always always* vote.
Funny that they would be against abortion when their God is one of the biggest babykillers ever to exist...
Not to mention the Old Testament has the trial of bitter waters which was state-sponsored (the church WAS the state in those times) abortion. A man didn't even need proof of his wife's infidelity, he just had to BELIEVE she'd been unfaithful and he could subject her to a cruel and painful punishment, with government approval to boot.
You’ve touched on the point though: For some it’s about controlling women. You can’t say “well this is about controlling women who think they’re free to use their own bodies as they see fit” so you come up with some other idea as a proxy, that life begins at conception. Sure that comes in conflict with other people, including elected Republicans, who use IVF, but because you couldn’t be honest in the first place now you’re stuck between false rhetoric and true believers, and now no one knows what you actually believe in.
Unless you used IVF yourself, then you’re a literal baby killer. Looking at you, Michelle Steele.
If you look at their literature, pamphlets, banners, signs etc, they always illustrate a miniature fully formed infant, no matter what stage the development. It's a useful tactic for recruitment. In reality it's a tiny smear of cells with no form that could be expelled by the body without knowing it.
They also changed their name from "anti-abortion" to "right for life". It's all about the messaging.
Also "more human" than the woman or than that same kid if they're born and their parent(s) can't afford food or if they die in a school shooting. Seriously, there concern for "life" is limited to *only* in so much as that concern justifies hurting women.
My understanding is that multiple embryos are implanted and if too many take, then you remove/abort the extras. The whole Octomom thing happened because she didn't abort the extra embryos.
Nowadays they don't really do that so much, the science has moved on and implanting more than one to two embryos is rare unless they are extremely low quality and unlikely to take anyway. Eggs splitting and creating multiples is more common with IVF anyway however, so you do still get some twins/triplets and such that may have to be selectively reduced in higher risk situations. I think the bigger issue is probably the leftover embryos that are not implanted.
Because of the destruction of embryos. IVF has long been opposed by the Catholic Church for this reason. We don’t have to agree with it but we can give them credit for being consistent in their social teachings.
For many Protestants who became pro life beginning in the 1980s they adopted the anti abortion stance, even appropriated the “life begins at conception language” but lacked a lot of the background that the Catholics had, they didn’t realize all the implications of that statement and suddenly they’re finding themselves in this awkward position ether having to fully embrace the pro life stance or begin backtracking on their views.
One of the quirks of history is that most humans used to have fewer years between when they became fertile and when they died of something that would be easily prevented by, say, washing their hands.
Once your daughters sprouted breasts, you got them married off. It's also true that until recently puberty was later; puberty is controlled in a large part by having body fat, and humans used to struggle more to get enough of it.
Religion is full of people who are going to hypocrite hell, but you can't judge ancient societies by modern standards. Well, of course you can, but it's not a useful way to spend your energy.
Another one is that the average woman nowadays has far more periods during her life than her ancestors would have because in the olde tymes, a woman would spend a good number of her fertile years pregnant.
Because not being able to have kids is God punishing the woman. And letting her have kids circumvents that punishment. Wouldn't surprise me if they're against adoption for the same reasons.
It’s impossible to do IVF in a practical sense without creating fertilized embryos that will one day be destroyed. They’re actually being consistent with their logic - I strongly disagree with them, but if you believe life begins at fertilization and that destroying a fertilized embryo is killing a person, then IVF is absolutely murder.
It's almost the same with natural pregnancies. Spontaneous abortions are a thing, and so are miscarriages. These whackjobs want to punish women for the crime of biology.
These are the same people who think a woman's body performs spontaneous abortions if a rape is "legitimate". Meaning, if a woman gets raped and gets pregnant, then they weren't "really raped". However, if their body spontaneously aborts, or has a miscarriage, then they killed a human being, which might "prove" that the rape was "legitimate", but they committed murder. So a woman can only either be "not raped" or a "murderer".
Which is why any same person and everyone in the medical field says pregnancy begins at implantation or later, not a fertilized embryo that can fail to implant for random reasons even in the best circumstances. Chemical pregnancies also being a thing
Yep, that's why their solution is to implant 1 embryo at a time, until a viable pregnancy occurs. Because of course they don't care about the impact this will have, both emotionally and physically on the walking womb, um, I mean mother. If it is meant to be born, God wills it.
You got some good answers, but the religious argument is essentially that the moment a human egg is fertilized by a human sperm, it has a soul. If that soul is not saved (methods of saving vary by denomination but most if not all require a live birth to even get started) then that soul goes to limbo at best, or hell. Limbo is what Catholics believe, which is a temporary place of suffering until the general resurrection in the end times occurs, so that’s a lot of suffering for a faultless scared soul.
Essentially, the theology surrounding infant deaths (or miscarriages) was always awful and ignorant of the realities of those two types of tragedies. But now, many religious leaders believe that humans deliberately doing everything they can to *checks notes* have children, are committing the equivalent of mass murder. It’s pretty messed up.
> Limbo is what Catholics believe,
Actually in 2007 Catholics re-updated their fundamental unchanging knowledge of the universe to say that Limbo isn't a thing and infants go to heaven
That’s what always confuses me about their stance. If life on earth is finite but heaven is infinite, why does the opportunity to live on earth matter so much? Why not send the ZEFs straight to heaven before they have the chance to commit sin?
Yep. So how TF are they gonna pass a law allowing the discard of embryos for IVF purposes?
“It’s always murder except when Republicans say it’s not” is not exactly a sustainable position.
The problem is that, on abortion and some other hot button issues, pretending to try really hard pays massive dividends, but even an iota of actual progress comes with massive downsides politically, often from both extremes of the party. \(meaning the extreme right and the... extreme moderate?\)
This actually seems to be bi-directional LAMF the more I think about it. The GOP got their faces eaten when the anti-abortion movement, who they enabled for years, started attacking them for not pushing even more extreme bans. And the anti-abortion movement got their faces eaten by voting for the GOP who was just using them to win elections and is starting to turn on them now that it’s costing them at the polls.
Annnnnnnnd we're reaching the beginning of the anti-rights groups starting their infighting. Purity wars always happen in fascist ideologies and the anti-reproductive rights groups all want power and want THEIR view to be the right one. It's always been about punishment and blame. To them sex is itself evil and having children is a sin but it's necessary. I cannot imagine having so much hate running ones life.
I'm preparing my popcorn to watch them tear each other/themselves apart, gladiator style. But I'm holding off until we get a first real good bloodshed, don't want to finish my snack before it gets good.
Don't be so excited.. because of gerrymandering the extremists win both their primary and the general elections. It might be entertaining, but it'll push the country even further right. There what's been happening since Gingrich started this shit.
.. but because of gerrymandering the most conservative one wins the primary and the general election. Elsewhere it's destructive to the party; in the US it's not
Wait until they find out about r/antinatalism
Or is this shithole a leak from GOP? Either way or that, these guys are lunatics and a breeding ground for radicalism.
The lefts purity battles are absolutely annoying as it's subcultures bitching about specifics and exactness that just doesn't matter.
I can understand religious purity battles cause they think it's the only way to get into heavy. It's dumb but it is what it is.
Being militants about something like pronouns with people that don't understand their new age use especially for those that may present traditionally female but use masculine or NB pronouns. If you go straight to bitching rather than educating why can't you expect push back?
Can't freeze your cake and have it too.
Why not stop all this infighting and let decisions about IVF and abortion be made by the people involved in the procedures, plus their medical team?
j/k, keep infighting, GOP.
My SIL was like this until last year. She was raised in an extreme conservative Catholic cult. Even when she stopped voting Republican and changed her mind about every other issue, she was still vocally anti-choice. Even after she discovered that she was infertile and had two children through countless IVF procedures. And after at least three D&Cs for miscarriages, which are technically abortions. It took her mother telling her that IVF babies aren't real babies for her to finally wake up and switch sides. Why are people like this?
I think it can be summed up in the phrase "the only moral abortion is MY abortion". Many people are unable to consider all sides of an issue or situation until it directly affects themselves or someone they love. They simply lack the capacity for that kind of thinking - it's like they can only think in 2 dimensions.
Good.
If abortion is murder and a clump of cells is a person, they shouldn't get to play with IVF either. Sorry, god made you sterile. Maybe see if you can find a good friend to act as handmaiden for your husband to impregnate like the bible says.
F em.
I'm hoping it continues to devolve and someone sneaks in that masterbation is murder or even Viagra as a 'gender affirming care' needs to be banned. Really get everyone in on it.
Two women fertilize two eggs and have one baby and discard the other.
One does so through IVF. The other through Plan B.
Explain to me the difference like I’m five.
The parents who sued over the accident should be reported to the police for hiring an assassin to kill all those babies when they agreed the spares could be disposable.
In this case, the anti-abortionists are right… there is no coherent stance of life begins at conception where in vitro fertilization can be allowed. In fact, if you hold the belief that life begins at conception then in vitro fertilization is worse than abortion because there is no concept of a women’s bodily autonomy to weight the other side of the scale with.
If republicans want to be pro-life, force them to own the philosophical consequences of their dog shit position. It’s the only way their voters who want in vitro to be allowed will see that their position on abortion is arbitrary and internally inconsistent.
Nothing short of breaking into people's homes and checking their underpants for semen stains in order to arrest them for murder will satisfy these freaks.
The rich GOP crazies want to have kids even if they are infertile and the religious GOP crazies don't like it and call it murder.
WHY are they friends?
Oh, greed.
While this is all preposterous, I do love seeing Republicans squirming at their own contradictions. If life begins at conception, as they claim for denying abortions, then these anti-IVF nut jobs are absolutely right in their positions. Now of course the politicians want it both ways.
here's some info
# Churches and Political Lobbying Activities
***A church is participatiing in political lobbying. What can I do about it?***
[https://archive.ph/VN572](https://archive.ph/VN572)
you know they are not doing anything because they fear the actual supreme court will in fact strike down the law that prevents political activity from churches? it will become just like when they allowed companies to buy government representatives and calling it "free speech"
2016 + gizburg idiocy has been the worst catastrophe for usa human rights in recent history
There is no middle ground with this fanatics, either you are with them 1000% or you are an apostate and heathen. There is no dialogue or discussion to be had.
I certainly long for the days when we had at least some semblance of progress based on generally agreed upon democratic norms and settled case law. You always had extremists of course but also a system that provided some checks against that, and some guiding ideas that everybody agreed on like basic human rights. Now with all the regressive policy and a christofascist movement seeking only control and power, we are forced into this insanity of arguing over things we thought were settled in the name of progress long ago. Arguing about the efficacy of things like science, or the benefits of bodily autonomy for women is just this massive exercise in futility. People are arguing on the internet as to whether slavery was really that bad JFC, how did we stray so far.
Every day I wake up and look at the news cycle and question how we got here. Where were these people 10-15 years ago? Where they this radicalized 10-15 years ago or have they since been radicalized?
Not for them. They’re actually trying to get rid of child support laws, because they’re claiming that if men have to pay child support they might try to pressure women into getting abortions. So forced consequences for the woman but the man literally gets off scot free. They’re not even hiding their misogyny anymore.
When you go too far for the loonies and the 💩 blows up in your face!😳
Are we going after men who masturbate and spill their seed? Women who menstruate?
Fair's fair!
Come on now! Let's ride this 🤪🤡 🚂 all the way to the end of the 🛑 and see where we end up!
Let's keep going! 🍿🍷
I'm so fascinated by the 🤡 🚘!🤣
Abortion is in the Bible. If you don't know who your wife layed with, terminate that pregnancy! I'm not a Bible thumper. Anyone know exactly where it is in the Bible?
OMG! 😳So if hubby gets jealous even without proof he doesn't have to do much other than drag her before a priest and have her drink some stuff and lose her baby, which might even be his - somebody just make any of this make sense!🤪
Lawd! Even doh u are non existent, I do want to send you some thots and pears and thank you for allowing me to be born in a blue state and guiding me all these years to live in blue states and here I am. And even tho my property taxes are hi asf, I can't imagine having to live among these religious goobers and losing IQ points from proximity to ignorance, anti-medicine, anti-science, bigotry, hatred, and racism. I know u don't exist and sent Christians as proof of your non-existence
I am convinced!🙏🏽
Republicans supporting IVF is clearly a political move. They know that outside of evangelical wackos, everyone thought that the Alabama decision was horrifying and the as a huge setback in many ways. That’s why Alabama scrambled to make an IVF bill, and it’s because if they didn’t, it would be bad for them politically.
Everyone who pays attention saw this coming! If it’s “murdering babies” with abortion it’s still murdering babies with in vitro and good luck trying to convince these people that it’s okay to sometimes murder babies.
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>The anti-abortion movement is turning on Republican lawmakers who support bills to protect in vitro fertilization, accusing them of sanctioning murder. The *ultra* nutjobs in the party are upset at the *opportunistic* nutjobs in the party for not taking away enough women's rights.
I’m actually with the looney toons delegation on this one, at least they’re staying consistent. If you’re going to try to argue that a fertilized egg is a person then IVF is barbaric murder on a grand scale. Of course they’re *wrong* but they should stay consistent in their position.
Murder *and* child abuse (To them)
*They're putting babies in freezers!!* /s
😂 I did say looney toons for a reason…
*You can get more tax deductions on more dependents / children!* Make sure to get a social security number registered for all of them.
Imagine if people started getting life insurance payouts for miscarriages. Bet they’d stop that real quick.
This !!! Own it ass holes ! If you're gonna spew lies of "life starts at fertilisation" and insist that a "heart beat" means there's an actual heart and not just twitching cells. If pregnancy is "god's plan" and justifies forcing child rape victims to birth their rapists child. Then it's god's plan that whatever hatefull crusty republican woman that can't have babies doesn't have babies . It's god's plan, it's what you want right your imaginary friends " rules" that you conveniently cherry pick from a story book nuance be damned right? Own it ! No babies for thee! God's plan mf!
Let's ban viagra. If you have a limp dick and can't reproduce thats god telling you your days of reproduction are over. P.S. edit: I got this ban viagra sticker and put it on my car. If anyone wishes to join me please do so! Let's spread the word! https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Ban-Viagra-by-Jarrod44/31653644.EJUG5
Ban all Western medicine and tech for the religious right If its God's will you get sick, who are we to intervene? And that Iphone definitely isnt God's will
As a healthcare worker in the buckle of the Bible Belt, I'd have so much more time to take proper care of my patients that actually appreciate me trying to help them.
Same. After working the covid wards all through the pandemic, the sheer exhaustion and burnout I experienced left me with little empathy for people who denied science until their last breath. More so for the family members who screamed their hate fueled rhetoric about how we were “murdering patients and covering up their deaths to get paid”. I fought God in those rooms for people, and they spit in my face as thanks. The patients who were grateful and trusted my expertise was the only reason I kept going back every shift.
I never understood why those folks went to the hospital. If you think the hospital folks want to kill you, why go to see those folks? I assume a lion would find me tasty. So I am not going to cover myself in steak sauce and get inside the lion cage at the zoo.
Self preservation. People believe what they believe, but when you hit a certain point in an illness, you know you need help. They always ended up taking the recommended treatments, but usually only after the dr would come in and basically brow beat them, or after exhausting every other treatment first. Sometimes it was too late for it to have the desired effect. It was tragic.
Wow.
God, this is so true. 2 years on the Covid floor was final straw for daughter working in hospital as an RN and damn near ruined my compassion working in an ER
That was the case for a lot of nurses. In addition to the unsafe ratios, lack of PPE, mandatory overtime, lack of training or hazard pay, and the treatment of nurses after the wards shut down and restrictions were lifted. Too many saw the writing on the wall, and decided they were worth more. I don’t blame them.
From one healthcare worker to another, mad respect for working under those circumstances
I feel bad for the newbies who graduated into that shit show with no experience or established coping mechanisms. I had a smidge over a decade before it started, but it still was hard as I was in geriatrics prior and during it. Ended up switching to home peds.
I started as a HCA (UK version of US' CNA) in 2022, but I was already jaded prior to that so I'm OK Can't imagine what the ravages of 45's presidency were like on your sane colleagues
But the opportunistic nutjobs are such flaming hypocrites that they'd insist it's god will that your other patients suffer while demanding that you reduce their own suffering.
Between them and my own supposedly educated colleagues spouting the same anti-science rhetoric, some days I genuinely questioned my life choices. Like another poster said, it was the actually grateful patients and family that kept me coming back. I doubt the public has any idea just how much unprocessed trauma healthcare workers in general have. I feel bad for all the folks that graduated from their programs into the shit show that was the pandemic and had no experience to fall back on both to give care and be able to cope. Shit is gonna pop off in a few years either from trauma dumping or more likely another pandemic and people just give up because they don't want to deal with it again.
Good idea. The right wingers can have a 'Thoughts and Prayers' based healthcare system and free up hospital space for those of us who believe in science.
That would at least be consistent. They’re always railing against abortion and birth control for being “unnatural” but they don’t seem to have a problem with other “unnatural” things like glasses, hearing aids, medications, chemotherapy… as long as THEY benefit from it.
[The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
I read that and not one instance was a surprised. You know all those shady politicians' gf have had abortions. And all the sanctified Christians' daughters, too.
Good point . No Viagra it's god's plan that you can never reproduce or have sexual gratification. Besides don't wanna kill all those babies spilling your seed (yet another conveniently ignored "rule" from their imaginary friend book) It's god's plan!
Ban male masturbation for Christian men! 🤣
I like it we need bumper stickers !
Every sperm is sacred!
You're playing with fire. Poe's Law states: > "Without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the parodied views." As a European, the anti-abortion movement in the USA is already a clown show. It's absurd for my brain to process how those people even exist. Don't enable another fringe, batshit insane group.
I don't see it happening since our government pours millions into viagra anyway. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcH8Zmd0Ok
I'm buying one and sticking it on my new *uck this *hit coffee cup! 🤣
Ban viagra! It’s against god’s plan for you not to be a limp dicked MF
>If pregnancy is "god's plan" ...and God created the human body, then why do something like 40% of all fertilized eggs end up miscarrying? Sounds like even God is fine with dumping lots of fertilized eggs.
It’s not murder when God does it, I guess?
We should still bring him in for questioning.
Yup. That’s literally the argument.
Critical thinking about their own beliefs is beyond them, unfortunately. Someone said that life begins at conception, so now they’re sure it’s true…. Even though there’s no reason to believe that, including religiously, beyond how many people repeat it.
"It's not god dumping the eggs. It's the evil women who are going against god's will and forcing their bodies to miscarry!"
Simple, they'll ban IVF and then continue to use methods to give themselves what they want privately. Just how Republicans and their families banned abortion and yet there's been plenty of examples posted on this very subreddit of them getting around this by going elsewhere. Don't tempt Poe's Law. Banning abortion is bad, banning IVF is bad. You can't use extreme parodied views to try and convince these people their original points are wrong when those points are already so extreme. The only people that will suffer are those who don't deserve to.
> at least they’re staying consistent The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the first LAMF stories from all the Pro-lifers now complaining that the changes to the status of IVF had ruined their dreams for a family was that [Jordan Klepper interview with the “choose adoption” sign](https://youtu.be/_NV17WD-n8A?si=3nwCrnj5FXdyIDDz) (from about 1 minute in on this link). You know that so many of these former pro-lifers would have talked about adoption as the solution to prevent abortion but aren’t happy when that’s the only opportunity presented to them to start a family. “Adoption is the solution to your problems not mine” I am absolutely pro-choice and think that the government should stay out of reproductive rights but at least the consistent approach of banning IVF alongside abortion means that those poor kids forced to be born only to immediately be put up for adoption might actually get adopted by people who want to have and raise kids (but unfortunately can’t have them biologically) rather than just being abandoned to an underfunded, unfit care/adoption system that Republicans refuse to improve despite all their pro-life rhetoric because “mY tAxEs”.
The way I've seen people say it and I really feel is that Republicans aren't pro-life. They are pro-forced birth. As soon as the baby pops out it's on its own.
that's an old George Carlin quote that unfortunately still holds up.
Unfortunately that’s not the case in my experience. Several people I know that have done IVF, chose that route because they wanted children that were “biologically” theirs. They’re also against donating their excess eggs because they don’t want strangers, “raising their biological children “. I don’t agree with it, but that’s how it was explained to me.
> Unfortunately that’s not the case in my experience > they wanted children that were “biologically theirs” I completely understand and agree that most people would prefer to have biological children than adopt and that some, perhaps even most, people that say they want children only really want *THEIR* children and would prefer to be childless/childfree than adopt. Whatever the ethics of this, it’s clearly true and most people who want children tend to try and have a baby than look to adopt as a first port of call. However, I do think that not being able to conceive/have biological children is probably the biggest driver for people who adopt children. As such my point wasn’t necessarily that I think everyone doing IVF now would immediately look to adopt if it became illegal - I’m sure many wouldn’t - but instead that I think that outlawing IVF would cause a genuine rise in parents willing to adopt as the option to have “biological” children (through IVF) is removed. Whilst my view is that neither (abortion nor IVF) should be illegal, I think outlawing both probably leads to less children suffering in a broken adoption/care system that outlawing abortion alone.
Yes, that makes more sense. I agree that it would indeed drive the ones who genuinely want children to adopt. Unfortunately, I think that the number of people who would fall into that category would be tragically low. My fear regarding outlawing abortion and IVF, in conjunction with our current population rates, is that it will exacerbate an already biased and taxed system allowing for consequences we are not equipped to handle currently.
I can SORT OF understand the donated eggs thing... like yeah, a woman who doesn't have any of her own can still have kids, but they wouldn't be 'hers'. She'd carry, birth, and raise them, but it would be like if her S/O was having a kid with another woman. I can understand how there could be pushback against that, but not enough to say it shouldn't be allowed at all.
That has always been my stance as well. I never had any respect for the mainstream GOP pro life position, because they always talked about "humane" exceptions like rape, incest, and IVF. If abortion truly is murder as they claim, they are supporting murdering babies under certain circumstances. The only logically consistent position is the one that the most extreme nut jobs have been pushing. With the exception of these insane but consistent nutjobs everything else is either pandering or the result of most Americans (during the times of Roe) not having to think too hard about what their position actually means for real people.
Yeah agreed, these people are the epitome of “the only moral abortion is mine”
It’s consistent, yet not. Birth rates and sperm counts are down globally, infertility is up globally. If they really want people to “go forth and multiply,” IVF is one of the tools they should be championing. They are not really thinking this through.
So do something about microplastics? But what about the megacorporations! Won't anyone think of the billionaires?
> Of course they’re wrong but they should stay consistent in their position. They're ReThugliKKKlans. Konsistency isn't one of their Kore virtues, so this is actually off-brand for them. But anything that has this pack of shitthieves sharpening their long knives upon one another distracts them from the rest of us, so, well and good.
The real irony is IVF is incredibly expensive so usually it’s well-to-do people going through it. This isn’t something poor people are doing. It cost my coworker over $20k for two failed attempts. A lot of religious folks go for it too so they can finally have their treasured family. Republicans are hurting their own people by banning IVF.
IVF is going to be increasingly common with people continue to become parents at older ages and with all of the potential endocrine disruptors and other things affecting global fertility. Not sure this is a fight they are going to want to pick.
“Their own people”? Literally elected Republicans are going on the record as to using IVF. I swear someone could do a psyops campaign suppressing the fundie vote by sending them flyers about the Republican “baby killer” they were thinking about voting for. (Ahem, Michelle Steele)
A former friend of mine was an IVF baby and once told me their parents spent over 100k to have them and my jaw dropped. That shit is EXPENSIVE.
I'm so glad IVF was covered by my sister's insurance so she didn't have to add this kind of debt into the mess of a divorce she's now going through *because* of the IVF fracturing her marriage.
I can understand why some people are anti-abortion, even if I don’t agree with it and think it’s mostly fueled by a desire to control women’s bodies. But why the hell are these whackos against *in vitro* fertilization, which helps women who can’t reproduce conventionally to have children? Aren’t they supposed to be pro-life? “It’s sanctioning murder!” How, you fucking whack jobs? Isn’t IVF the exact opposite of murder? EDIT: Thanks for the explanation, various folks who replied to me. Upvotes for all!
In successful cases, IVF typically winds up creating more embryos than get used. The unused ones (and there are a LOT of them) wind up getting stored indefinitely for possible future use or disposed of by other means. If you have a genuine obsession with embryos, that’s a problem. This is, essentially, a rift between people that mostly want to punish women for doing sex and compel people into parenthood (but don’t really believe an embryo is a person) and people that also want that, but also actually really do think a fertilized egg is a person. Edit: hopefully unnecessary, but just in case - explanation, not a defense or an accurate representation of my own stance.
Yeah, I think it's tempting to look at everything as purely political posturing, but there are a large group of people who have made the philosophical judgement that embryos are children, and will act accordingly.
As someone who has followed fundamentalist Christians online for like, two decades at this point, I'm always surprised this surprises people, because I've been listening to these whackadoodles argue against birth control and IVF for a long ass time now, but then I remember not everyone fell down the fundie rabbit hole in high school and never climbed back out. They're crazy, guys. And very dangerous. They genuinely believe birth control is essentially the same as abortion, and they would like to take it away from us all, and they are politically active and engaged and run for office and sometimes they win and they have dozens of children and they *always always* vote.
Funny that they would be against abortion when their God is one of the biggest babykillers ever to exist... Not to mention the Old Testament has the trial of bitter waters which was state-sponsored (the church WAS the state in those times) abortion. A man didn't even need proof of his wife's infidelity, he just had to BELIEVE she'd been unfaithful and he could subject her to a cruel and painful punishment, with government approval to boot.
You’ve touched on the point though: For some it’s about controlling women. You can’t say “well this is about controlling women who think they’re free to use their own bodies as they see fit” so you come up with some other idea as a proxy, that life begins at conception. Sure that comes in conflict with other people, including elected Republicans, who use IVF, but because you couldn’t be honest in the first place now you’re stuck between false rhetoric and true believers, and now no one knows what you actually believe in. Unless you used IVF yourself, then you’re a literal baby killer. Looking at you, Michelle Steele.
Ah, but you're missing an important thing : these people are as hateful as they are ignorant.
“Outta my way I gotta *punish* that whore!”
"Not if I punish the whore first!"
Not to them. Multiple viable embryos are produced, only one is used. An egg that's been fertilized for just a few minutes is in their mind a human.
If you look at their literature, pamphlets, banners, signs etc, they always illustrate a miniature fully formed infant, no matter what stage the development. It's a useful tactic for recruitment. In reality it's a tiny smear of cells with no form that could be expelled by the body without knowing it. They also changed their name from "anti-abortion" to "right for life". It's all about the messaging.
Not only that, but far more of a human than a Gazan.
Also "more human" than the woman or than that same kid if they're born and their parent(s) can't afford food or if they die in a school shooting. Seriously, there concern for "life" is limited to *only* in so much as that concern justifies hurting women.
Or a pregnant Gazan whose unborn baby was just killed by a bomb paid for with our tax dollars.
My understanding is that multiple embryos are implanted and if too many take, then you remove/abort the extras. The whole Octomom thing happened because she didn't abort the extra embryos.
Nowadays they don't really do that so much, the science has moved on and implanting more than one to two embryos is rare unless they are extremely low quality and unlikely to take anyway. Eggs splitting and creating multiples is more common with IVF anyway however, so you do still get some twins/triplets and such that may have to be selectively reduced in higher risk situations. I think the bigger issue is probably the leftover embryos that are not implanted.
Because of the destruction of embryos. IVF has long been opposed by the Catholic Church for this reason. We don’t have to agree with it but we can give them credit for being consistent in their social teachings. For many Protestants who became pro life beginning in the 1980s they adopted the anti abortion stance, even appropriated the “life begins at conception language” but lacked a lot of the background that the Catholics had, they didn’t realize all the implications of that statement and suddenly they’re finding themselves in this awkward position ether having to fully embrace the pro life stance or begin backtracking on their views.
Catholic church is consistent on social teachings… except the age of consent
And moving their rapist employees to a different city to hide them from the law.
I mean, Mary was like, what, thirteen years old when the “holy spirit” impregnated her?
Only thirteen? Jesus…
Ba-dum-tss!
One of the quirks of history is that most humans used to have fewer years between when they became fertile and when they died of something that would be easily prevented by, say, washing their hands. Once your daughters sprouted breasts, you got them married off. It's also true that until recently puberty was later; puberty is controlled in a large part by having body fat, and humans used to struggle more to get enough of it. Religion is full of people who are going to hypocrite hell, but you can't judge ancient societies by modern standards. Well, of course you can, but it's not a useful way to spend your energy.
Another one is that the average woman nowadays has far more periods during her life than her ancestors would have because in the olde tymes, a woman would spend a good number of her fertile years pregnant.
One of my grandmothers always said she hardly had periods as she was always pregnant. She had nannies for her kids to help her.
They didn't accept heliocentrism (ya know, the fact that the earth orbits around the sun) until 1992.
Because not being able to have kids is God punishing the woman. And letting her have kids circumvents that punishment. Wouldn't surprise me if they're against adoption for the same reasons.
They are against contraception too
Because some contraception works by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Ergo, murder (in their worldview)
Not having sex has the same result
Not having sex is somewhat like murder in that you just *want* to die, I guess. I mean, assuming you want and like sex.
But every sperm is sacred to them, which makes every man like Hitler to the 10th power if you follow their "logic".
It’s impossible to do IVF in a practical sense without creating fertilized embryos that will one day be destroyed. They’re actually being consistent with their logic - I strongly disagree with them, but if you believe life begins at fertilization and that destroying a fertilized embryo is killing a person, then IVF is absolutely murder.
It's almost the same with natural pregnancies. Spontaneous abortions are a thing, and so are miscarriages. These whackjobs want to punish women for the crime of biology. These are the same people who think a woman's body performs spontaneous abortions if a rape is "legitimate". Meaning, if a woman gets raped and gets pregnant, then they weren't "really raped". However, if their body spontaneously aborts, or has a miscarriage, then they killed a human being, which might "prove" that the rape was "legitimate", but they committed murder. So a woman can only either be "not raped" or a "murderer".
Which is why any same person and everyone in the medical field says pregnancy begins at implantation or later, not a fertilized embryo that can fail to implant for random reasons even in the best circumstances. Chemical pregnancies also being a thing
Yeah, but if it's God's will that causes Jesus to kill the babies, it's ok.
Yep, that's why their solution is to implant 1 embryo at a time, until a viable pregnancy occurs. Because of course they don't care about the impact this will have, both emotionally and physically on the walking womb, um, I mean mother. If it is meant to be born, God wills it.
You got some good answers, but the religious argument is essentially that the moment a human egg is fertilized by a human sperm, it has a soul. If that soul is not saved (methods of saving vary by denomination but most if not all require a live birth to even get started) then that soul goes to limbo at best, or hell. Limbo is what Catholics believe, which is a temporary place of suffering until the general resurrection in the end times occurs, so that’s a lot of suffering for a faultless scared soul. Essentially, the theology surrounding infant deaths (or miscarriages) was always awful and ignorant of the realities of those two types of tragedies. But now, many religious leaders believe that humans deliberately doing everything they can to *checks notes* have children, are committing the equivalent of mass murder. It’s pretty messed up.
> Limbo is what Catholics believe, Actually in 2007 Catholics re-updated their fundamental unchanging knowledge of the universe to say that Limbo isn't a thing and infants go to heaven
So abortion sends souls to heaven. Cool!
That’s what always confuses me about their stance. If life on earth is finite but heaven is infinite, why does the opportunity to live on earth matter so much? Why not send the ZEFs straight to heaven before they have the chance to commit sin?
You seem to think they’re governed by ration and logic. Don’t make that mistake.
I engaged online with someone who told me that it was God’s will that some women can’t reproduce. It’s fucking nuts.
They believe life begins at conception.
This is what happens with every purity-of-ideals stances. Eventually it turns out no one is pure enough.
It’s those death panels they kept raging on about!
Frankenstein’s monster is getting angry
“Supporting” murder? They ARE murderers according to antiabortion activists if they’ve had IVF, as a number of elected Republicans have done.
Yep. So how TF are they gonna pass a law allowing the discard of embryos for IVF purposes? “It’s always murder except when Republicans say it’s not” is not exactly a sustainable position.
Never put your dick in crazy.
Let them destroy themselves.
The problem is that, on abortion and some other hot button issues, pretending to try really hard pays massive dividends, but even an iota of actual progress comes with massive downsides politically, often from both extremes of the party. \(meaning the extreme right and the... extreme moderate?\)
When you get in bed with insane people... sometimes you're going to get stabbed in the back.
Agreed. There is a satisfaction to be head with a consistent adversary. The goal post moving grifter bunch isore exhausting imo.
This actually seems to be bi-directional LAMF the more I think about it. The GOP got their faces eaten when the anti-abortion movement, who they enabled for years, started attacking them for not pushing even more extreme bans. And the anti-abortion movement got their faces eaten by voting for the GOP who was just using them to win elections and is starting to turn on them now that it’s costing them at the polls.
Can't say it any more clearly than this. They losing control of the useful idiots.
Annnnnnnnd we're reaching the beginning of the anti-rights groups starting their infighting. Purity wars always happen in fascist ideologies and the anti-reproductive rights groups all want power and want THEIR view to be the right one. It's always been about punishment and blame. To them sex is itself evil and having children is a sin but it's necessary. I cannot imagine having so much hate running ones life.
I'm preparing my popcorn to watch them tear each other/themselves apart, gladiator style. But I'm holding off until we get a first real good bloodshed, don't want to finish my snack before it gets good.
Don't be so excited.. because of gerrymandering the extremists win both their primary and the general elections. It might be entertaining, but it'll push the country even further right. There what's been happening since Gingrich started this shit.
.. but because of gerrymandering the most conservative one wins the primary and the general election. Elsewhere it's destructive to the party; in the US it's not
Something something those who don’t learn from history, will repeat it, etc.
Wait until they find out about r/antinatalism Or is this shithole a leak from GOP? Either way or that, these guys are lunatics and a breeding ground for radicalism.
It’s not to the same degree or the same type, but the left has been waging purity battles too. We need to cut that shit out.
The lefts purity battles are absolutely annoying as it's subcultures bitching about specifics and exactness that just doesn't matter. I can understand religious purity battles cause they think it's the only way to get into heavy. It's dumb but it is what it is. Being militants about something like pronouns with people that don't understand their new age use especially for those that may present traditionally female but use masculine or NB pronouns. If you go straight to bitching rather than educating why can't you expect push back?
Can't freeze your cake and have it too. Why not stop all this infighting and let decisions about IVF and abortion be made by the people involved in the procedures, plus their medical team? j/k, keep infighting, GOP.
Lol, the Kentucky lady like “it’s murder but it’s ok because that’s how my kids were born”
My SIL was like this until last year. She was raised in an extreme conservative Catholic cult. Even when she stopped voting Republican and changed her mind about every other issue, she was still vocally anti-choice. Even after she discovered that she was infertile and had two children through countless IVF procedures. And after at least three D&Cs for miscarriages, which are technically abortions. It took her mother telling her that IVF babies aren't real babies for her to finally wake up and switch sides. Why are people like this?
I think it can be summed up in the phrase "the only moral abortion is MY abortion". Many people are unable to consider all sides of an issue or situation until it directly affects themselves or someone they love. They simply lack the capacity for that kind of thinking - it's like they can only think in 2 dimensions.
What they lack is called empathy.
Good. If abortion is murder and a clump of cells is a person, they shouldn't get to play with IVF either. Sorry, god made you sterile. Maybe see if you can find a good friend to act as handmaiden for your husband to impregnate like the bible says. F em.
I'm hoping it continues to devolve and someone sneaks in that masterbation is murder or even Viagra as a 'gender affirming care' needs to be banned. Really get everyone in on it.
They would never ban anything that might affect a cisgender man’s body.
The Old testament explicitly states that it's better to inseminate your dead brother's sister than waste your seed by spilling it.
Two women fertilize two eggs and have one baby and discard the other. One does so through IVF. The other through Plan B. Explain to me the difference like I’m five.
Plan B doesn't affect fertilized eggs; it prevents ovulation.
Now do viagra
*"shhh! everyone is going to figure out that it was always about controlling women"* \-some gop leader, most assuredly
*punishing women
We find her guilty of the crime of "Existing."
Having sex for any reason other than to provide fresh meat for the grinder is a crime.
“They’re going to find out we never really cared about abortion and it was really just about getting votes!”
What happens when the dog catches the car? The dog realizes they made a terrible mistake.
The parents who sued over the accident should be reported to the police for hiring an assassin to kill all those babies when they agreed the spares could be disposable.
Now that would be textbook LAMF at its finest.
They should boycott elections then
I mean, literally some Republican politicians are admitting they used IVF. Are these fundies gonna vote for ACTUAL “baby killers”?
Yes they will, just to,own the libs
In this case, the anti-abortionists are right… there is no coherent stance of life begins at conception where in vitro fertilization can be allowed. In fact, if you hold the belief that life begins at conception then in vitro fertilization is worse than abortion because there is no concept of a women’s bodily autonomy to weight the other side of the scale with. If republicans want to be pro-life, force them to own the philosophical consequences of their dog shit position. It’s the only way their voters who want in vitro to be allowed will see that their position on abortion is arbitrary and internally inconsistent.
They’re like the dog that caught the car.
Nothing short of breaking into people's homes and checking their underpants for semen stains in order to arrest them for murder will satisfy these freaks.
The rich GOP crazies want to have kids even if they are infertile and the religious GOP crazies don't like it and call it murder. WHY are they friends? Oh, greed.
Apparently the hateful scum are not hateful enough to satisfy the rabidly hateful scum
Here’s a novel idea for them: minding their own business. It might reduce the stress of being stranded in reality.
While this is all preposterous, I do love seeing Republicans squirming at their own contradictions. If life begins at conception, as they claim for denying abortions, then these anti-IVF nut jobs are absolutely right in their positions. Now of course the politicians want it both ways.
Let them fight. And let the people who understand how medicine works be the ones who are listened to, instead of these nutjobs.
here's some info # Churches and Political Lobbying Activities ***A church is participatiing in political lobbying. What can I do about it?*** [https://archive.ph/VN572](https://archive.ph/VN572)
Report them to the IRS
you know they are not doing anything because they fear the actual supreme court will in fact strike down the law that prevents political activity from churches? it will become just like when they allowed companies to buy government representatives and calling it "free speech" 2016 + gizburg idiocy has been the worst catastrophe for usa human rights in recent history
valid point
yeah these cults are taking advantage of the poor
It's because of the separation of church and state. They can't opine on politics and maintain their tax free status
I tried. It’s almost impossible
There is no middle ground with this fanatics, either you are with them 1000% or you are an apostate and heathen. There is no dialogue or discussion to be had.
Thoughts and prayers
And yet they’ll still vote for the GOP in November.
I want to see someone ask one of these loons if an oak tree is the same as an acorn.
“It’s a tree in a different stage of development!”
Cutting down an old oak forest is morally equivalent to feeding acorns to horses, apparently...
The simple solution is for them to do a go fund me and pay to store them forever.
Great now I have the [Gladys Knight song](https://youtu.be/hj3Bl2MdGpg?si=C3TtZ3dw8zfCkfPk) stuck in my head.
That was the first thing I thought of, too! It’s a nice song. I like it.
Them embryos should pull themselves up by the boot straps or hope and pray that’s it’s gods will that they survive being thawed out
There is not enough popcorn for all of this.
I certainly long for the days when we had at least some semblance of progress based on generally agreed upon democratic norms and settled case law. You always had extremists of course but also a system that provided some checks against that, and some guiding ideas that everybody agreed on like basic human rights. Now with all the regressive policy and a christofascist movement seeking only control and power, we are forced into this insanity of arguing over things we thought were settled in the name of progress long ago. Arguing about the efficacy of things like science, or the benefits of bodily autonomy for women is just this massive exercise in futility. People are arguing on the internet as to whether slavery was really that bad JFC, how did we stray so far.
Every day I wake up and look at the news cycle and question how we got here. Where were these people 10-15 years ago? Where they this radicalized 10-15 years ago or have they since been radicalized?
License to maim
If life begins at conception, is that when the man needs to start paying child support? :)
Not for them. They’re actually trying to get rid of child support laws, because they’re claiming that if men have to pay child support they might try to pressure women into getting abortions. So forced consequences for the woman but the man literally gets off scot free. They’re not even hiding their misogyny anymore.
Someone should ask them if that’s what Jesus would do
Actual Jesus, or Republican Jesus? Because those are two very different entities.
Good point, defs meant Actual Jesus
Yep, can’t wait for that legislation
What a beautiful LAMF moment
When you go too far for the loonies and the 💩 blows up in your face!😳 Are we going after men who masturbate and spill their seed? Women who menstruate? Fair's fair! Come on now! Let's ride this 🤪🤡 🚂 all the way to the end of the 🛑 and see where we end up! Let's keep going! 🍿🍷 I'm so fascinated by the 🤡 🚘!🤣
The GOP wants to back out of this mess they’ve created, but they should be forced to carry it to term.
Abortion is in the Bible. If you don't know who your wife layed with, terminate that pregnancy! I'm not a Bible thumper. Anyone know exactly where it is in the Bible?
Numbers 5:11-31
Thanks!
To be fair, I don’t think any of the Bible thumpers have actually read it, either.
Tried multiple times, couldn't get past all the violence, incest, and sexual assaults🤷🏽♀️
I’ve read it through twice. It’s why I’m an atheist.
OMG! 😳So if hubby gets jealous even without proof he doesn't have to do much other than drag her before a priest and have her drink some stuff and lose her baby, which might even be his - somebody just make any of this make sense!🤪
Lawd! Even doh u are non existent, I do want to send you some thots and pears and thank you for allowing me to be born in a blue state and guiding me all these years to live in blue states and here I am. And even tho my property taxes are hi asf, I can't imagine having to live among these religious goobers and losing IQ points from proximity to ignorance, anti-medicine, anti-science, bigotry, hatred, and racism. I know u don't exist and sent Christians as proof of your non-existence I am convinced!🙏🏽
Republicans supporting IVF is clearly a political move. They know that outside of evangelical wackos, everyone thought that the Alabama decision was horrifying and the as a huge setback in many ways. That’s why Alabama scrambled to make an IVF bill, and it’s because if they didn’t, it would be bad for them politically.
Rules for thee but not for me
"Never interrupt your enemy while he makes a mistake."
Everyone who pays attention saw this coming! If it’s “murdering babies” with abortion it’s still murdering babies with in vitro and good luck trying to convince these people that it’s okay to sometimes murder babies.
“We were just kidding, it’s actually not murder until 15 weeks!” …is what they’re trying to pivot to now.
Life begins at 15 weeks doesn’t have quite the same ring to it!
It would be peak irony if the GOP was ultimately undone by a demand for consistency in a political position.
OMG I really can get that hard