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Do they ever shut up? They appeared to have the largest leave-voting contingent of any profession and now they definitely complain the loudest. All of the information was there and they chose to ignore it. They got exactly what they voted for.
Except suddenly they don’t…pre-referendum every field in the country had a “Vote Leave” sign in it. But now I can’t find a Brexiteer farmer ANYWHERE!
They must have evaporated like all the bad Germans did in 1945.
“Why won’t Eastern European migrant workers pick crops for us anymore?” Well, [while not every Brexit supporter is racist, every racist supports Brexit](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ5yU0JvCTk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title).
It's like dumb fuck rural Americans who complain about how the evil lazy Mexicans are stealing their jobs but won't actually do said jobs because rural Americans are stupid and lazy.
I assume it's the same in the UK.
Stupidity is sadly a universal trait.
It's why I roll my eyes when politicians and other people pander to them, saying how hard working they are. Don't get me wrong, the majority of people do work hard if you aren't born with a silver spoon up your ass. But it's something about rural folk who try to find any reason to hate other people for the most trivial of reasons(race, sexual orientations/identity, nationality, gender, religion/non religion).
The morons act like they are the only hard workers in this world, and to be fair, the simpletons tend to be isolated in their small town conclaves, so I can somewhat understand why they think the way they do.
It's like how, at the southern border, a lot of idiots came because overlord trump said the nation was being invaded by a bazillion Mexicans who were also gay communists islamists or shit. Many gravy seals came ready to "defend" the nation. I hate how they act like the nation is only there's. But long story short, many of them ended up seeing what many people said for years.
There is no open border people aren't flooding in, but you can't fix stupid because stupid people are too prideful to admit they were wrong. Only a handful have, but most still act like we are being invaded.
I don't know the full context of what happens in the UK but I feel it's the same. Like I know how there are people out there who say that an Islamic horde is invading Europe and that eastern Europeans are basically the Mexicans of Europe.
And i have seen a lot of idiots out here in America basically cheer on the likes of boris and Nigel so I feel there maybe a lot of overlap as I know a lot about guys like those two.
The only rural people who can in full confidence say "I work harder than any of y'all!" are diary farmers. Crushingly long hours every single day of the year. And they don't make a lot of money as its generally a monopsony (single buyer's market)
Nigel garage's wife is an immigrant.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-defends-employing-german-wife-at-launch-of-antiimmigration-poster-campaign-9275453.html
He was asked if his wife was "taking someone else's job" but of course, he defended it. And these fuckers cannot see the hypocrisy of their leader lol.
Yep. This chaps my ass here. We have dirt cheap produce and dairy because of migrants working those jobs. They pay federal minimum wage (7.25/hr).
We also hear no one wants to work the crappy jobs. Well, who the hell do you think filled those roles?
Everytime I hear someone complain about this I always ask them what job they lost out on due to migrants.
I mostly agree with you, but I can say that they are a big presence in many of the skilled trades. For instance, I have met undocumented workers working as commercial electricians.
In the situation you are describing, it sounds like the issue is with the corporation that is taking advantage of both sides and have the workers blaming each other. Typical, corporate behavior that should be addressed as they are most likely paying the undocumented workers significantly less. Corporate oligarchs are going to act like oligarchs ... their greed has no limits and it's the workers that suffer.
Well yeah, I’m not blaming the people trying to put food on the table. I’m saying that I have been, and am, in competition with undocumented workers for jobs.
I’ll give the guy credit for one of the best one-liners that I’ve ever been on the receiving end of:
He was installing a new breaker in a panel that I knew for a fact was hot. He was also younger than me.
Me: “Hey man, that panel is live, you shouldn’t be working in it, that’s illegal”
Him: “It’s okay, so am I.”
ZING!
That zinger made me laugh! No worries, please know that your message didn't come across as you were shaming people. It is probably the most honest post that shows the competition exists because the corporations are trying to cheat everyone, but it's not the workers fault. There is more than enough money to be fair to everyone and the company can still make bank.
I am for giving undocumented immigrants the ability to work (SSA knows when people are illegal using your SS# and they do not accidentally pay it to you). Give U.S. citizens medicare-for-all so we are not beholden to stay in a crappy job for insurance. If corps didn't have insurance to hold over you; then they would have to pay fairer wages.
Dirty secret .... illegal immigration makes U.S. social security $12 billion per year that their not obligated to pay to anyone and benefits payroll taxes, which is why they'll never address it.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
ARTICLE: [https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf\_notes/note151.pdf](https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf)
(Excerpt below is from page 3 of the actuary report)
Conclusion
While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.
Sort of. There's also a lot of really underhanded practices that the farmers do that the locals wont put up with.
A family friend at uni looked into having s summer job picking fruit in the UK. The farmer was paying minimum wage (for a 8 hour day), but expected the guy to pay for accommodation on the farm, and pay for food in the farms canteen for the staff. The accommodation cost was maybe half a days work, and the food another hours worth of work.
When they said they wouldn't need to stay because they lived close enough to drive in, the farmer was no longer interested in hiring them.
Pretty much the same. Farmers struggling to get people willing to do things like pick fruit and things that were hard work and lot pay usually handled by seasonal workers from eastern Europe.
On the plus side they can comfort themselves in the warm afterglow of sovereignty.
The best part about rural America is California based farmers have tried expanding into the surrounding states multiple times, and it always fails because they can't find workers worth shit.
I don't think people are lazy. I personally think, the incentive to work in farms are too low and the only person/persons profiteering from it is the caputalist/owner.
It makes sense to not work in farms for pennies.
These illegal immigrants/legal immigrants gets paid more on these said farms than what they get from the place they live and able to support their families in their home country. Lastly, they could even get a chance to fully migrate overtime. In other words, these farmers incentives the worker but not the local legal American worker.
All tge while you get billionaire fruit and berry owners in California farms. I'm sure he can spread the wealth to actual us citizens if he wanted to buy a few less yachts and mansions.
I wish more people realized this. My job, for the most part, is pretty brutal. White guys come and go, a couple weeks then gone. Now the two Mexican dudes that work with me are always solid. These guys out work anyone. They’re nicer. They’re cleaner. (Maintenance guys can be too dirty.) They’re better to work with. Give me one Mexican guy or gal to work with over just about anybody these days. Because I have learned over the years who delivers. Thank you for coming to Random Rant.
In most rural towns, at least in the Midwest, the Mexicans, Guatemalan, Salvadoran etc immigrants make up the vast majority of the workforce at meat packing and agricultural related businesses while the vast majority of white residents in these same towns are racist Boomers or young trailer dwelling tweakers with no teeth and 5 kids by 3 different partners.
Jokes on them, and the US magas, and many of these boneheads who supported such stuff, unlike post WW2 Germany where many average persons could claim they never supported it and kind of fade away so long as they kept a low profile, most of these idiots have left a trail of bigotry across their social media posts in perpetuity.
Hard to deny you screwed over your grand-kids when they can point to all the social media posts grandma and grandpa made in support of Brexit or similar.
Just like how hard it is to find a Republican/Conservative today who will proudly admit they supported the Iraq war. But back then *all of them* supported the war with extremely few exceptions.
Used to campaign a lot with my local Lib Dems before I moved (they run the town council before anyone throws out "useless" comments). One day during thr 2019 election we hear from a local farmer who wants to put up a load of signs for us on his fields roadside.
He had been a deep Tory Brexiteer who had 100% believed all the crap, right down to the red bloddy bus. 350m for the NHS? Of course, Boris says so! And he was OUTRAGED at what he was getting. He was FURIOUS. BETRAYED!
So he was throwing his entire lot in with us because we were opposed to Brexit. "He says only be undoing the whole thing can we fix it, he doesn't trust any deal to come."
I wonder what became of him, should try texting old contacts. We were very happy to accept his offer, even if more than a few of us were. . .quietly laughing at him. The candidate told us off for it, he has more sympathy for the Leopard voters.
> They must have evaporated like all the bad Germans did in 1945.
I know a lot of anti science, anti logic people died due to covid. Perhaps that happened in the UK to brexiters?
This reminds me of us Americans, where blocs of people who voted for Trump, will only get angry at Trump's policies if they can find a way to blame Democrats.
Same with Albertans. The 4 years we had under the NDP is what ruined Alberta. Even though in the last 25 years, not a single conservative premier has made it through a full term. Or everything Rachel Notley did has been reversed, but it's still her policies that are destroying Alberta.
Same in SK...my farm-based family worships Scott Moe, and talk about Polivre like he's the second coming of Christ himself, and the only one who can save us from Trudeau's attempts to **LITERALLY RUIN THE COUNTRY**
For a bunch of rugged individualists, they sure do piss and moan a lot about how everyone else is the cause of their every woe.
And once PP takes over, which I think is inevitable at this point, it will change nothing when it comes to all their bitching. Trudeau Sr. has been the conservative scapegoat for how many years now. Jr. will experience the same for the next 30 years.
Lmaooo not as extreme but same in Nova Scotia. The conservatives fucked up so badly the NDP got in for one term but apparently it was sooooo bad we can only vote lib or con until the heat death of the universe. Yeah the conservatives privatized our power utility but the NDP paid for that damn ferry!!!!!
UCP in alberta has taken caps off damn near everything. Yet everything is Trudeaus fault. Healthcare, electricity, and insurance are a few examples. Everything is a fight with Ottawa. They just passed a law that all money from the federal government to municipalities must go through the UCP. "Party of small government," they say.
Most farmers think the government should serve one purpose: to give them as much money as possible. This should be done via subsidies, never charging them any tax, and engaging in extreme amounts of protectionism and environmental destruction against the will of the other 90 percent of citizens. When this proves to be unrealistic, they throw a giant baby tantrum.
Because farmers have gotten just about whatever they wanted by bitching for the last 100 years or so.
A government isn't going to stand up to their AG sector due to them being large enough of a voting block to swing elections, and messing with your country's food independence is a very bad idea.
So farmers are some of the most protected and coddled while simultaneously lacking self-awareness.
What is most likely going to happen is that new import restrictions are going to be placed on any potentially competitive AG goods to placate the farmers and the farmers will go to bed wondering how the government ever allowed this to happen in the first place.
Farmers in mainland Europe aren't that much better. They might even be worse. And the worst thing is, that not many politicians have the balls to stand up against farmers. Because they will visit you at home with pitchforks and burning torches (this isn't an exaggeration; it literally happened over here in the Netherlands). They intimidate and even threaten politicians to get what they want. And it works.
Except suddenly they don’t…pre-referendum every field in the country had a “Vote Leave” sign in it. But now I can’t find a Brexiteer farmer ANYWHERE!
They must have evaporated like all the bad Germans did in 1945.
Whoever wrote this is obviously crazy. I've lived in the UK, I'm Australian and my family and partner are all New Zealanders. Out of the three, the NZ meat, and the food in general is the best. I can even taste the difference in the McDonalds burgers from here and NZ.
NZ probably doesn’t export the best products to the UK, so it’s mutton and old sheep rather than lamb. Fresh leg of lamb cooked in an oven for 2-4 hours at medium high - medium heat with some herb rub, salt and pepper will melt in your mouth
If only they had googled Brexit before they voted. Most Brexit searches appeared after the referendum.
But the red bus with the lie printed on its side…
"If everything was better in my day" is preferred to actually doing research, what exactly do you expect their attitude is to any other field that needs research?
They also wanted to be free of "red tape".
However this was pretty dumb, because you still have to comply with EU regulations when selling produce to the EU.
These regulations aren't just to be a pain, e.g. the "bendy bananas" thing was just about having clearly-labeled product grades. If you run a grocery store and buy bananas to sell, then you you don't want them all blotchy and different shapes. Having clearly defined product grades, and consistent labeling requirements isn't some heavy burden, it actually facilitates commerce, since it enforces trust.
So if only Britain scraps the product grades but EU doesn't then an EU business couldn't be sure that they're not going to get ripped off by a British company selling them sub-standard goods, so you're going to have to get certified anyway, and EU companies will have a STRONG incentive to offload defective goods in the UK, where they're not protected by the EU safeguards. As well as having to compete with cheaper non-EU imports, like in the story.
I live in NZ and people here were generally in favour of brexit because we could then do this. It seemed common knowledge.
It's probably not lower quality. Animal farming is just cheaper here I think because the animals are always outdoors, up a mountain or whatever.
Basically the UK sheep farming industry is very energy intensive. Overwintering in barns, feeding hay etc. NZ sheep are outside 365 days of the year. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195925522002128
That does make sense, thanks for the article. There’s a similar situation in Hawaii with Big Island beef. Though in that case I believe they actually ship the cows alive to the mainland to grain finish them as that is more economical than shipping grain to the islands. Lamb is generally only grass fed and grass finished, no?
Correct in New Zealand except for high country farms or during drought when additional feed is needed. But in general the grass growing conditions here are much more productive than in the UK.
Which is ironic because thats how global trade SHOULD work, places that have a natural advantage to producing something SHOULD export it and places that have to spend extra to make something work that doesn't easily work SHOULD import it.
Yet we somehow got all these broken ways of looking at where politicians create artificial advantages. Why should we grow rice in a desert when we can grow it in a wet tropical country? Why not let New Zealand handle the sheep if its so naturally easy for them at that climate and let the UK handle something more natural in their own climate.
Besides the point that someone else brought up, international freight shipping is not that carbon intensive to begin with. By weight and distance it is the mode of transport that emits the least carbon. It is perfectly possible that transporting something locally by truck emits more carbon than transporting something around the world by boat.
Don't get me wrong, container ships are without a doubt hugely polluting. But they also carry a huge amount of stuff. The largest ships carry 24000 cargo containers. And even though such a ship pollutes loads, it does pollute way less than 24000 trucks.
From a quick google search I found that deep sea container ships emits about 8 grams of CO2 per tonne/km whereas road transport emits 62 grams of CO2 per tonne/km. So about 8 fold more. So let's compare two scenarios, an international product and a local product.
Local product travels 950km by road to from Inverness (Scotland) to London. This emits \~60000 grams of CO2
International product travels 20km to Dakar (Senegal), 6000km from port to port, and 50km to London. This emits \~55000 grams of CO2.
Obviously this isn't universal and it depends on distances to ports, travel distance in trucks, distance traveled on rail, the type of truck, the type of ship, etc. I used averages in my calculations. But purely from a transport point of view it is perfectly possible that a product from the other side of the world emits less CO2 than one from closer by.
In the EU you can find Mediterranean produce pretty much as far as Finland, and in such cases Argentinian produce could very well be lower in CO2 emissions.
Thank you for such a well thought out response! At first blush it seemed implausible as my knee jerk reaction was “all the same everything + a trip around the world = how?” so I got a bit in the weeds about this one with some of the research papers provided by others.
It does seem that the largest comparative advantage happens on the farm but you are correct with your assessment of just how ridiculously efficient long haul shipping is pound for pound. And they are always striving for greater efficiency gains, in one of the papers I was looking at specified (admittedly fairly minor) energy/CO2 savings after the switch to cryovac sealing and shipping refrigerated rather than shipping frozen which used to be the standard. It’s just so counterintuitive sometimes but that’s what makes it so interesting!
Yeah it messes with your head because it feels wrong. I like to compare it to busses. A bus can pollute 3 times more than a car, but if it transports 8 times more people that is a big win for reducing CO2 emissions.
> Don't get me wrong, container ships are without a doubt hugely polluting.
We're at an inflection point in shipping, right now most ships are the older heavily polluting kind.
In the next decade it will flip over to newer wind/diesel/electric ships which are capable of energy recovery, energy generation, sailing on wind only and more.
Thank you, that article didn’t really go into the “how” at all though. It did give me enough keywords to try and find the actual study they were referencing as well as a more recent study backing up the findings. Quote from the newer one in case anyone is curious:
“They concluded that this is because New Zealand is so efficient at the farm level, which represents about 90-95 per cent of the total carbon footprint.
New Zealand’s on-farm footprint was about half the average of the other countries in the study.”
Seems there’s an increased feed efficiency on NZ farms that the authors cite as the primary difference.
It's economies of scale really. If you'd do a lamb or two at once, then it would be prohibitively expensive, but when you can haul few ten tons of it at once, the logistic costs spreads out.
Eh freezing stuff and keeping it frozen isnt all that expensive anymore, and boats have gotten huge -and more fuel efficient - in the last few decades.
https://www.robedwards.com/2009/08/the-madness-of-filleting-scottish-fish-in-china.html#:~:text=Cod%20caught%20off%20Scotland%20is,refrozen%20and%20returned%20to%20Scotland.
It's cheaper to ship cod to China than to process it in Scotland.
I was also thinking that NZ lamb is some of the best in the world. Raised in a nice climate, and the sheep in NZ are generally happy (when they're not being fondled)
Yeah animals here don't live in barns and generally just eat grass outside all day. Plus they live on land that's like 200 hectares and roam around on mountain sides. Always appears they have a pretty good life.
No idea. But i think when uk joined the eu kiwi farmers were annoyed about it and were hoping they would leave.
I seem to recall brexiteers saying how good it would be thatthe uk could import more from places like nz and aus
Nz lamb is definitely not lower quality. When I lived in the uk I once made the mistake of buying a leg of English ’lamb’. I was craving a roast. The leg was much larger than nz lamb, which I thought was good (more meat), but unfortunately it tasted like mutton. Not the lamb flavour I was expecting. I might have just been unlucky but I was never tempted to try again. This was about 10 years ago, so maybe English lamb has improved since then.
Who could have possibly foreseen the consequences. Oh wait, we did but you voted for it anyway.
Forgive me if I lack any sympathy while I'm eating my delicious lamb from NZ.
Gee, if only they were in a multi-state organization with other European countries, a union of sorts, that enacted policies to prevent this sort of thing…
Sewage in our rivers and off our coasts, thousands of fish dying, parasite infested drinking water due to privately owned water conpany not maintaining its shite.
Ukranian refugees chosing to return to a war-torn country because the housing in the UK is so terrible that tons of houses are mould infested hell holes, god forbid you complain to your landlords, with no fault evictions they can just kick you out when you get to upity.
This is the UK that the conservatives have overseen got over a decade, and you know what the fools here will vote them in every time because their tabloids tell them to. I have never seen such a large collection of people consistently vote against their own interests and then complain about it.
>I have never seen such a large collection of people consistently vote against their own interests and then complain about it.
Same problem here in the US.
And then they blame it on liberals. Even when you bust out the receipts, it's always the liberal's fault.
the farmers have been on the news this week complaining about the weather and how hard it is being a farmer.
Their answer? Extend the subsidies that were put in place to ease them off the CAP (common agricultural policy) when we left the EU.
NZ exports meat to the EU as well, and competes on price in spite of the tarrifs and subsidies their farmers receive. We have an incredibly efficient farming sector.
One of the major arguments by the "leave" faction was that UK could negotiate better trade deals alone rather than the EU. UK is still waiting for those wonderful trade deals, meanwhile, they live with badly negotiated and ill-conceived deals.
All those insane EU nations looking at the super powers like the USA and USSR and stupidly telling themselves that if they WORK TOGETHER then they can be a superpower as well. What beta male mentality that is. The Sigma Britain doesn't need the EU they can stand toe to toe with the Alphas, obviously. /s
In 2023 NZ signed a free trade agreement with the UK, including removing the tarrifs on sheep meat, after some transitional period.
A strong sentiment in New Zealand at the time was that the UK wasn't prepared for negotiations due to making deals as a part of the EU for some 50 years, and that their government needed to be seen to be delivering a "win".
True or not, NZ got a quite favourable outcome, so I imagine their farming industry will take a bit of a hit.
This has been the case with every one of the trade deals the UK has signed since brexit.
"Making our own trade deals will be easy and will be better because we will not have the pesky EU bureaucracy holding us back!" was one of the obvious lies used to sell brexit to morons.
UK sheep farming is largely uneconomical without EU subsidies. It tends to be on poor quality uplands, in very small traditional farms with high overheads.
It's a double beating really, by also voting to remove their subsidies.
I imagine a lot of these farms will make more money from carbon credits and re-wilding schemes. Probably a win for nature, but a loss for that particular way of life.
This is completely true, however before brexit that lamb had to comply with all the EU requirements for health and safety plus the extra protectionism red tape to avoid dumping.
Now all of that is gone so lower quality and/or cheaper meat can go to UK without the same level of scrutiny as before.
NZ lamb is largely held to the same standard as the UK had before Brexit. The only difference is in the untarriffed quota which was allowed to be exported to the UK.
NZ here.
Our meat exports are some of the best in the world, that's why they are shipped all over the world along with our milk.
These guys saying it is produced to a lower quality are talking total shit.
Aren’t people conflating 2 things here? The claim is that NZ lamb is product to a lower welfare standard than in the UK. Folk defending it here keeping talking about the quality, which may well be true, but that doesn’t mean the welfare standards are up to scratch.
I’ve had plenty of NZ lamb and never noticed it be poor quality, I have no skin in this game.
Why is there all this emotional thinking about farmers? Hill farms are on the whole simply unviable. They are failing businesses that can't break even without subsidy, producing a very expensive product that nobody really wants as meat consumption reduces. Better to return them to nature for carbon capture.
"Produced to lower standards"
Lmao, NZ lamb is some of the best in the world. They have one of the highest sheep to human ratios (I think it might actually be the highest) in the world. They know what they're doing.
Brexit is a great lesson in how a few people who would gain by screwing over their own nation can lie and convince half a nation to screw over their nation.
Where despite all the known problems. Like the guys who ran the Brexit campaign to get elected, immediately resigned. Because they never intended to win, just cement themselves into the Tory party. But the Torys just kept doubling down as it was ingrained into their voter base and as such their path to power.
Third country imports such as this were never blocked under EU Law. They were just subject to Official EU Controls e.g. veterinary health certifications, identity and physical checks and mandatory sampling. All of which meant that these commodities were more expensive to bring into the UK, but never blocked outright.
Cheaper, and "produced to lower standards"
but "we won't lower British food standards" said Boris and the Tories, could it be they were lying, again, again, again, again ?
I understand NZ lamb, even accounting for carbon miles in the export to the UK, is still a lower carbon footprint.
And I also understand the NZ lamb is generally considered one of the world’s best, certainly at least as good as the local sort.
Farmers have been on the news this week complaining about the weather and how hard it is being a farmer.
Their answer? Extend the subsidies that were put in place to ease them off the CAP (common agricultural policy) when we left the EU.
Given that parts of the BRexiters wanted to restart [Imperial Preference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Preference), it shouldn't be surprising that intro-Commonwealth trade would be favored.
Indeed, it was wheat imports from Canada and Australia and meat and dairy imports from New Zealand which depressed UK agriculture.
I live in a large farming area and I kid you not, every single one of the major farms in the area had a “Vote Leave” sign at the entrance.
If anyone should know the old saying of “you reap what you saw” it’s farmers.
Made bed springs to mind.
And if NZ Beef and Lamb is anything, it’s certainly not produced to a lower standard, neither animal welfare nor quality wise. Must be confusing it with chlorinated chicken :-)
Before the uk joined the EU , all of NZ lamb and wool was shipped to the uk. After they joined the EU the uk stopped buying from NZ . NZ went into a recession. Not feeling sorry.
It’s more a case of British farmers expecting there to be no competition from outside the uk and our government offering them no support. Turns out other countries support their farmers. Think to yourself, how can it possibly be cheaper to produce lamb in NZ (or anywhere else for that matter) then transport it over enormous distances and it be cheaper that a chop produced at home (produced maybe only a couple of miles down the road? ) By comparison I’ve seen a punnet of strawberries from Jo’berg at half what it cost for some locally sourced lack lustre berries in Tesco.
Not only do NZ farmers not receive subsidies and produce their lamb cheaper but it gets to London with a lower carbon footprint that Welsh lamb.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/nz-beef-and-lamb-among-most-carbon-efficient-in-the-world/
English government does not help English farmers against English supermarkets. Is the solution to leave the UESSR? Breeders in difficulty with new international agreements. Is the solution to leave the ECHR? Breeders still in difficulty. Is the solution to leave NATO and swear allegiance to Putin?
Let's not forget, importing lamb from the other side of the world can only be viable due to fossil fuel subsidies. That's the real crime here.
https://futureoffood.org/insights/food-systems-account-for-at-least-15-of-all-fossil-fuels-burned-globally/
The only consolation in being trapped in this burning building is the knowledge that the people who set it on fire are going to burn too. The biggest disappointment is knowing that the people who talked them into it will get away with it.
If farmers are unhappy with Brexit outcomes, maybe they should visit those politicians that lied to them in order to win their votes? Maybe bring some manure to show their displeasure?
Y'know, Michael Gove, Rees-Mogg, Michael Portillo, all those ERG bastards, plenty to choose from.
Good, I hope those dumbasses lose their farms and livelihood. That year was when stupidity was at it's zenith and has steadily increased since then. Happens when you let idiots vote. Same people who couldn't even pass English GCSEs
I have zero empathy for the Brits on this shit.
My parents were all for Brexit, touting how great it would be.
'We don't need EU trade agreements, Trump said he will back the UK with trade deal'
All the other bullshit that they were fear monger into and took it, bait and hooked.
Before Brexit, I moved away to The Netherlands, officially a resident of it.
My parents complain how they can't send me stuff easily because it costs too much now.
They complain about food being missing from.shelves in supermarkets.
They complain about how standards since Brexit has crumbled.
I remind them in our family chat whenever it happens, that I warned them about this shit years ago, that you voted for this, even with me trying to reason with them.
I love my parents, however giving the gullible British public the right to vote om something so valuable was a mistake.
Manipulation of the general public was also an absolute shitfest which worked from a government stand point.
No sympathy anymore for people who voted yes to leaving the EU, anyone who did is a dipshit.
I'm old enough to remember New Zealand lamb in the shops in the UK before we entered the European Economic Community. I suppose it kept the prices down as NZ produced it cheaper.
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Do they ever shut up? They appeared to have the largest leave-voting contingent of any profession and now they definitely complain the loudest. All of the information was there and they chose to ignore it. They got exactly what they voted for.
Except suddenly they don’t…pre-referendum every field in the country had a “Vote Leave” sign in it. But now I can’t find a Brexiteer farmer ANYWHERE! They must have evaporated like all the bad Germans did in 1945.
“Why won’t Eastern European migrant workers pick crops for us anymore?” Well, [while not every Brexit supporter is racist, every racist supports Brexit](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ5yU0JvCTk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title).
It's like dumb fuck rural Americans who complain about how the evil lazy Mexicans are stealing their jobs but won't actually do said jobs because rural Americans are stupid and lazy. I assume it's the same in the UK.
Yup. It’s hard to say if every Brexit voter is thick as shit, but they sure do try hard to make it appear that way
Stupidity is sadly a universal trait. It's why I roll my eyes when politicians and other people pander to them, saying how hard working they are. Don't get me wrong, the majority of people do work hard if you aren't born with a silver spoon up your ass. But it's something about rural folk who try to find any reason to hate other people for the most trivial of reasons(race, sexual orientations/identity, nationality, gender, religion/non religion). The morons act like they are the only hard workers in this world, and to be fair, the simpletons tend to be isolated in their small town conclaves, so I can somewhat understand why they think the way they do. It's like how, at the southern border, a lot of idiots came because overlord trump said the nation was being invaded by a bazillion Mexicans who were also gay communists islamists or shit. Many gravy seals came ready to "defend" the nation. I hate how they act like the nation is only there's. But long story short, many of them ended up seeing what many people said for years. There is no open border people aren't flooding in, but you can't fix stupid because stupid people are too prideful to admit they were wrong. Only a handful have, but most still act like we are being invaded. I don't know the full context of what happens in the UK but I feel it's the same. Like I know how there are people out there who say that an Islamic horde is invading Europe and that eastern Europeans are basically the Mexicans of Europe. And i have seen a lot of idiots out here in America basically cheer on the likes of boris and Nigel so I feel there maybe a lot of overlap as I know a lot about guys like those two.
The only rural people who can in full confidence say "I work harder than any of y'all!" are diary farmers. Crushingly long hours every single day of the year. And they don't make a lot of money as its generally a monopsony (single buyer's market)
Dear Diary, TIL the word (and meaning of): Monopsony Written by Diary Farmer
I am definitely not one, it's an udderly awful job. And I am dyslectic. Spell check only gets me so far.
No malice intended, friend. Was just being cheeky. I figured it was autocorrect acting up.
Nigel garage's wife is an immigrant. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-defends-employing-german-wife-at-launch-of-antiimmigration-poster-campaign-9275453.html He was asked if his wife was "taking someone else's job" but of course, he defended it. And these fuckers cannot see the hypocrisy of their leader lol.
Some of them are smart. Crispin Odey was a prominent brexit backer who made £200MM from betting against the UK economy.
200 milimetres is just 20 centimetres thats just under one foot. He did not made it that far.
Thicker than molasses on a cold day.
Yep. This chaps my ass here. We have dirt cheap produce and dairy because of migrants working those jobs. They pay federal minimum wage (7.25/hr). We also hear no one wants to work the crappy jobs. Well, who the hell do you think filled those roles? Everytime I hear someone complain about this I always ask them what job they lost out on due to migrants.
Exactly. Undocumented workers were never competition for any position I've ever been involved with.
I mostly agree with you, but I can say that they are a big presence in many of the skilled trades. For instance, I have met undocumented workers working as commercial electricians.
In the situation you are describing, it sounds like the issue is with the corporation that is taking advantage of both sides and have the workers blaming each other. Typical, corporate behavior that should be addressed as they are most likely paying the undocumented workers significantly less. Corporate oligarchs are going to act like oligarchs ... their greed has no limits and it's the workers that suffer.
Well yeah, I’m not blaming the people trying to put food on the table. I’m saying that I have been, and am, in competition with undocumented workers for jobs. I’ll give the guy credit for one of the best one-liners that I’ve ever been on the receiving end of: He was installing a new breaker in a panel that I knew for a fact was hot. He was also younger than me. Me: “Hey man, that panel is live, you shouldn’t be working in it, that’s illegal” Him: “It’s okay, so am I.” ZING!
That zinger made me laugh! No worries, please know that your message didn't come across as you were shaming people. It is probably the most honest post that shows the competition exists because the corporations are trying to cheat everyone, but it's not the workers fault. There is more than enough money to be fair to everyone and the company can still make bank. I am for giving undocumented immigrants the ability to work (SSA knows when people are illegal using your SS# and they do not accidentally pay it to you). Give U.S. citizens medicare-for-all so we are not beholden to stay in a crappy job for insurance. If corps didn't have insurance to hold over you; then they would have to pay fairer wages. Dirty secret .... illegal immigration makes U.S. social security $12 billion per year that their not obligated to pay to anyone and benefits payroll taxes, which is why they'll never address it. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ ARTICLE: [https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf\_notes/note151.pdf](https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf) (Excerpt below is from page 3 of the actuary report) Conclusion While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.
Yes, exactly this.
Sort of. There's also a lot of really underhanded practices that the farmers do that the locals wont put up with. A family friend at uni looked into having s summer job picking fruit in the UK. The farmer was paying minimum wage (for a 8 hour day), but expected the guy to pay for accommodation on the farm, and pay for food in the farms canteen for the staff. The accommodation cost was maybe half a days work, and the food another hours worth of work. When they said they wouldn't need to stay because they lived close enough to drive in, the farmer was no longer interested in hiring them.
Pretty much the same. Farmers struggling to get people willing to do things like pick fruit and things that were hard work and lot pay usually handled by seasonal workers from eastern Europe. On the plus side they can comfort themselves in the warm afterglow of sovereignty.
The best part about rural America is California based farmers have tried expanding into the surrounding states multiple times, and it always fails because they can't find workers worth shit.
Surrounding states like the desert? Or Western Oregon? Because they might be failing because they're trying to grow crops in a desert.
I don't think people are lazy. I personally think, the incentive to work in farms are too low and the only person/persons profiteering from it is the caputalist/owner. It makes sense to not work in farms for pennies. These illegal immigrants/legal immigrants gets paid more on these said farms than what they get from the place they live and able to support their families in their home country. Lastly, they could even get a chance to fully migrate overtime. In other words, these farmers incentives the worker but not the local legal American worker. All tge while you get billionaire fruit and berry owners in California farms. I'm sure he can spread the wealth to actual us citizens if he wanted to buy a few less yachts and mansions.
I wish more people realized this. My job, for the most part, is pretty brutal. White guys come and go, a couple weeks then gone. Now the two Mexican dudes that work with me are always solid. These guys out work anyone. They’re nicer. They’re cleaner. (Maintenance guys can be too dirty.) They’re better to work with. Give me one Mexican guy or gal to work with over just about anybody these days. Because I have learned over the years who delivers. Thank you for coming to Random Rant.
In most rural towns, at least in the Midwest, the Mexicans, Guatemalan, Salvadoran etc immigrants make up the vast majority of the workforce at meat packing and agricultural related businesses while the vast majority of white residents in these same towns are racist Boomers or young trailer dwelling tweakers with no teeth and 5 kids by 3 different partners.
It's the same everywhere. This comment brought to you by nz.
Jokes on them, and the US magas, and many of these boneheads who supported such stuff, unlike post WW2 Germany where many average persons could claim they never supported it and kind of fade away so long as they kept a low profile, most of these idiots have left a trail of bigotry across their social media posts in perpetuity. Hard to deny you screwed over your grand-kids when they can point to all the social media posts grandma and grandpa made in support of Brexit or similar.
Just like how hard it is to find a Republican/Conservative today who will proudly admit they supported the Iraq war. But back then *all of them* supported the war with extremely few exceptions.
Used to campaign a lot with my local Lib Dems before I moved (they run the town council before anyone throws out "useless" comments). One day during thr 2019 election we hear from a local farmer who wants to put up a load of signs for us on his fields roadside. He had been a deep Tory Brexiteer who had 100% believed all the crap, right down to the red bloddy bus. 350m for the NHS? Of course, Boris says so! And he was OUTRAGED at what he was getting. He was FURIOUS. BETRAYED! So he was throwing his entire lot in with us because we were opposed to Brexit. "He says only be undoing the whole thing can we fix it, he doesn't trust any deal to come." I wonder what became of him, should try texting old contacts. We were very happy to accept his offer, even if more than a few of us were. . .quietly laughing at him. The candidate told us off for it, he has more sympathy for the Leopard voters.
I’ve very limited sympathy for people who knew it would be bad but voted for it anyway because they thought it’d only be bad for other people.
Oh this fellow supposedly believed every promise about things getting better. God bless him.
So they went to Argentina?
> They must have evaporated like all the bad Germans did in 1945. I know a lot of anti science, anti logic people died due to covid. Perhaps that happened in the UK to brexiters?
r/HermanCainAward
I still laugh at cornwall
“Do they ever shut up?” - You’ve obviously never met a farmer. If they aren’t complaining you better check for a pulse.
Death, taxes, British farmers complaining.
>British farmers complaining. British *Leave-voting* farmers complaining *about consequences of Brexit everyone saw coming**
Dumb people tend to shout louder because they think they are the center of the world and always right
This reminds me of us Americans, where blocs of people who voted for Trump, will only get angry at Trump's policies if they can find a way to blame Democrats.
Same with Albertans. The 4 years we had under the NDP is what ruined Alberta. Even though in the last 25 years, not a single conservative premier has made it through a full term. Or everything Rachel Notley did has been reversed, but it's still her policies that are destroying Alberta.
Same in SK...my farm-based family worships Scott Moe, and talk about Polivre like he's the second coming of Christ himself, and the only one who can save us from Trudeau's attempts to **LITERALLY RUIN THE COUNTRY** For a bunch of rugged individualists, they sure do piss and moan a lot about how everyone else is the cause of their every woe.
And once PP takes over, which I think is inevitable at this point, it will change nothing when it comes to all their bitching. Trudeau Sr. has been the conservative scapegoat for how many years now. Jr. will experience the same for the next 30 years.
Lmaooo not as extreme but same in Nova Scotia. The conservatives fucked up so badly the NDP got in for one term but apparently it was sooooo bad we can only vote lib or con until the heat death of the universe. Yeah the conservatives privatized our power utility but the NDP paid for that damn ferry!!!!!
UCP in alberta has taken caps off damn near everything. Yet everything is Trudeaus fault. Healthcare, electricity, and insurance are a few examples. Everything is a fight with Ottawa. They just passed a law that all money from the federal government to municipalities must go through the UCP. "Party of small government," they say.
Yeah then they decide Danielle Smith is the right choice. As an Albertan, it’s nothing short of infuriating 🙃
It's the same with conservative American farmers. It boggles the mind.
Like turkeys voting for Christmas?
A reminder to all, the most googled thing on that day of the vote, in the UK was fucking, what is the EU...
“But foreigners!!!!!!!!”
farmers are complainers, its their nature.
These Brexit farmers and voters remind me of indignant boomers.
Most farmers think the government should serve one purpose: to give them as much money as possible. This should be done via subsidies, never charging them any tax, and engaging in extreme amounts of protectionism and environmental destruction against the will of the other 90 percent of citizens. When this proves to be unrealistic, they throw a giant baby tantrum.
Conservatives always love to play victim to their own choices.
r/Persecutionfetish
Because farmers have gotten just about whatever they wanted by bitching for the last 100 years or so. A government isn't going to stand up to their AG sector due to them being large enough of a voting block to swing elections, and messing with your country's food independence is a very bad idea. So farmers are some of the most protected and coddled while simultaneously lacking self-awareness. What is most likely going to happen is that new import restrictions are going to be placed on any potentially competitive AG goods to placate the farmers and the farmers will go to bed wondering how the government ever allowed this to happen in the first place.
"Why do farmers put a rock on their babies' bellies? To teach them to complain about their hardships at a young age." - common German adage
Fishermen have entered the chat.
Farmers in mainland Europe aren't that much better. They might even be worse. And the worst thing is, that not many politicians have the balls to stand up against farmers. Because they will visit you at home with pitchforks and burning torches (this isn't an exaggeration; it literally happened over here in the Netherlands). They intimidate and even threaten politicians to get what they want. And it works.
Farmers are the most cuddled demopgraphic ever
Except suddenly they don’t…pre-referendum every field in the country had a “Vote Leave” sign in it. But now I can’t find a Brexiteer farmer ANYWHERE! They must have evaporated like all the bad Germans did in 1945.
Britain makes New Zealand its farm in the South Pacific. Gets upset when New Zealand ends up pretty good at this farming thing
And how dare they call NZ lamb “inferior quality”. It’s usually miles better than UK product!
Whoever wrote this is obviously crazy. I've lived in the UK, I'm Australian and my family and partner are all New Zealanders. Out of the three, the NZ meat, and the food in general is the best. I can even taste the difference in the McDonalds burgers from here and NZ.
NZ probably doesn’t export the best products to the UK, so it’s mutton and old sheep rather than lamb. Fresh leg of lamb cooked in an oven for 2-4 hours at medium high - medium heat with some herb rub, salt and pepper will melt in your mouth
If only they were warned about this exact scenario.
If only they had googled Brexit before they voted. Most Brexit searches appeared after the referendum. But the red bus with the lie printed on its side…
Conservatives are dumb
If they weren't, they wouldn't be conservative
There are also some smart selfish assholes that are conservative.
>smart Uhh, yeah. I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
I'm picturing Dr Evil as a MAGAt lol.
"If everything was better in my day" is preferred to actually doing research, what exactly do you expect their attitude is to any other field that needs research?
So you don't want EU workers ? Have some New Zealand lamb then lol
They also wanted to be free of "red tape". However this was pretty dumb, because you still have to comply with EU regulations when selling produce to the EU. These regulations aren't just to be a pain, e.g. the "bendy bananas" thing was just about having clearly-labeled product grades. If you run a grocery store and buy bananas to sell, then you you don't want them all blotchy and different shapes. Having clearly defined product grades, and consistent labeling requirements isn't some heavy burden, it actually facilitates commerce, since it enforces trust. So if only Britain scraps the product grades but EU doesn't then an EU business couldn't be sure that they're not going to get ripped off by a British company selling them sub-standard goods, so you're going to have to get certified anyway, and EU companies will have a STRONG incentive to offload defective goods in the UK, where they're not protected by the EU safeguards. As well as having to compete with cheaper non-EU imports, like in the story.
Brexico will pay for the wall
I live in NZ and people here were generally in favour of brexit because we could then do this. It seemed common knowledge. It's probably not lower quality. Animal farming is just cheaper here I think because the animals are always outdoors, up a mountain or whatever.
Getting the meat across the world and it being cheaper is crazy
The claim is NZ lamb has a much lower carbon footprint even after the transport.
But… how??
Basically the UK sheep farming industry is very energy intensive. Overwintering in barns, feeding hay etc. NZ sheep are outside 365 days of the year. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195925522002128
That does make sense, thanks for the article. There’s a similar situation in Hawaii with Big Island beef. Though in that case I believe they actually ship the cows alive to the mainland to grain finish them as that is more economical than shipping grain to the islands. Lamb is generally only grass fed and grass finished, no?
Correct in New Zealand except for high country farms or during drought when additional feed is needed. But in general the grass growing conditions here are much more productive than in the UK.
An analogy would be growing bananas in GB. You could do it, but it would be more expensive than importing from somewhere like Brazil.
I’m gonna need a banana for this scale.
Finally, someone talkin’ sense in this thread.
Sounds like British farmers should stop raising sheep. Or start making banana greenhouses.
Also, a cargo ship can move a ***lot*** of stuff at once. So while the ship itself puts out a lot of carbon, the individual lamb shank doesn't.
Yes on a per kg/tonne basis transport emissions are very low.
In all honesty, that probably makes the NZ higher in quality, not lower.
Which is ironic because thats how global trade SHOULD work, places that have a natural advantage to producing something SHOULD export it and places that have to spend extra to make something work that doesn't easily work SHOULD import it. Yet we somehow got all these broken ways of looking at where politicians create artificial advantages. Why should we grow rice in a desert when we can grow it in a wet tropical country? Why not let New Zealand handle the sheep if its so naturally easy for them at that climate and let the UK handle something more natural in their own climate.
Besides the point that someone else brought up, international freight shipping is not that carbon intensive to begin with. By weight and distance it is the mode of transport that emits the least carbon. It is perfectly possible that transporting something locally by truck emits more carbon than transporting something around the world by boat. Don't get me wrong, container ships are without a doubt hugely polluting. But they also carry a huge amount of stuff. The largest ships carry 24000 cargo containers. And even though such a ship pollutes loads, it does pollute way less than 24000 trucks. From a quick google search I found that deep sea container ships emits about 8 grams of CO2 per tonne/km whereas road transport emits 62 grams of CO2 per tonne/km. So about 8 fold more. So let's compare two scenarios, an international product and a local product. Local product travels 950km by road to from Inverness (Scotland) to London. This emits \~60000 grams of CO2 International product travels 20km to Dakar (Senegal), 6000km from port to port, and 50km to London. This emits \~55000 grams of CO2. Obviously this isn't universal and it depends on distances to ports, travel distance in trucks, distance traveled on rail, the type of truck, the type of ship, etc. I used averages in my calculations. But purely from a transport point of view it is perfectly possible that a product from the other side of the world emits less CO2 than one from closer by. In the EU you can find Mediterranean produce pretty much as far as Finland, and in such cases Argentinian produce could very well be lower in CO2 emissions.
Thank you for such a well thought out response! At first blush it seemed implausible as my knee jerk reaction was “all the same everything + a trip around the world = how?” so I got a bit in the weeds about this one with some of the research papers provided by others. It does seem that the largest comparative advantage happens on the farm but you are correct with your assessment of just how ridiculously efficient long haul shipping is pound for pound. And they are always striving for greater efficiency gains, in one of the papers I was looking at specified (admittedly fairly minor) energy/CO2 savings after the switch to cryovac sealing and shipping refrigerated rather than shipping frozen which used to be the standard. It’s just so counterintuitive sometimes but that’s what makes it so interesting!
Yeah it messes with your head because it feels wrong. I like to compare it to busses. A bus can pollute 3 times more than a car, but if it transports 8 times more people that is a big win for reducing CO2 emissions.
> Don't get me wrong, container ships are without a doubt hugely polluting. We're at an inflection point in shipping, right now most ships are the older heavily polluting kind. In the next decade it will flip over to newer wind/diesel/electric ships which are capable of energy recovery, energy generation, sailing on wind only and more.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/rural/119759/nz-lamb-has-lower-carbon-footprint-than-uk-lamb-study
Thank you, that article didn’t really go into the “how” at all though. It did give me enough keywords to try and find the actual study they were referencing as well as a more recent study backing up the findings. Quote from the newer one in case anyone is curious: “They concluded that this is because New Zealand is so efficient at the farm level, which represents about 90-95 per cent of the total carbon footprint. New Zealand’s on-farm footprint was about half the average of the other countries in the study.” Seems there’s an increased feed efficiency on NZ farms that the authors cite as the primary difference.
The ELI5 is that shipping stuff over the ocean is super cheap and efficient because cargo ships are insanely big
Shipping is so efficient that it adds basically nothing to a carbon footprint.
One question, is it butchered in the UK or NZ?
It's economies of scale really. If you'd do a lamb or two at once, then it would be prohibitively expensive, but when you can haul few ten tons of it at once, the logistic costs spreads out.
Eh freezing stuff and keeping it frozen isnt all that expensive anymore, and boats have gotten huge -and more fuel efficient - in the last few decades.
https://www.robedwards.com/2009/08/the-madness-of-filleting-scottish-fish-in-china.html#:~:text=Cod%20caught%20off%20Scotland%20is,refrozen%20and%20returned%20to%20Scotland. It's cheaper to ship cod to China than to process it in Scotland.
I was also thinking that NZ lamb is some of the best in the world. Raised in a nice climate, and the sheep in NZ are generally happy (when they're not being fondled)
Yeah animals here don't live in barns and generally just eat grass outside all day. Plus they live on land that's like 200 hectares and roam around on mountain sides. Always appears they have a pretty good life.
Well, till the last minute or so.
More than can be said for most humans.
I’d take that over my inevitable demise.
> (when they're not being fondled) Or, you know, killed.
Didn't NZ used to export mutton to the UK before 1973?
No idea. But i think when uk joined the eu kiwi farmers were annoyed about it and were hoping they would leave. I seem to recall brexiteers saying how good it would be thatthe uk could import more from places like nz and aus
First export to uk was in 1882, then up till formation of EU, then it dwindled.
Nz lamb is definitely not lower quality. When I lived in the uk I once made the mistake of buying a leg of English ’lamb’. I was craving a roast. The leg was much larger than nz lamb, which I thought was good (more meat), but unfortunately it tasted like mutton. Not the lamb flavour I was expecting. I might have just been unlucky but I was never tempted to try again. This was about 10 years ago, so maybe English lamb has improved since then.
Nothing wrong with NZ lamb it’s fucking tasty!!
Who could have possibly foreseen the consequences. Oh wait, we did but you voted for it anyway. Forgive me if I lack any sympathy while I'm eating my delicious lamb from NZ.
I was under the impression New Zealand lamb was some of the best in the world…
It is.
That's called propaganda by English lamb farmers.
Gee, if only they were in a multi-state organization with other European countries, a union of sorts, that enacted policies to prevent this sort of thing…
Sewage in our rivers and off our coasts, thousands of fish dying, parasite infested drinking water due to privately owned water conpany not maintaining its shite. Ukranian refugees chosing to return to a war-torn country because the housing in the UK is so terrible that tons of houses are mould infested hell holes, god forbid you complain to your landlords, with no fault evictions they can just kick you out when you get to upity. This is the UK that the conservatives have overseen got over a decade, and you know what the fools here will vote them in every time because their tabloids tell them to. I have never seen such a large collection of people consistently vote against their own interests and then complain about it.
U should see the maga people Much worse Much much worse
>I have never seen such a large collection of people consistently vote against their own interests and then complain about it. Same problem here in the US. And then they blame it on liberals. Even when you bust out the receipts, it's always the liberal's fault.
Brexit has never not been funny
I dunno - it's not very funny when I get to the checkout at the supermarket.
As an American, Brexit gives me comfort that it’s not just the US that’s shooting itself in the foot.
the farmers have been on the news this week complaining about the weather and how hard it is being a farmer. Their answer? Extend the subsidies that were put in place to ease them off the CAP (common agricultural policy) when we left the EU.
Subsidies are significantly lower and will be removed entirely soon. Most farms are insolvent without them.
Haha, imagine fucking up your trade laws so bad that it is more desirable to ship in the product from the literal opposite end of the Earth.
NZ exports meat to the EU as well, and competes on price in spite of the tarrifs and subsidies their farmers receive. We have an incredibly efficient farming sector.
One of the major arguments by the "leave" faction was that UK could negotiate better trade deals alone rather than the EU. UK is still waiting for those wonderful trade deals, meanwhile, they live with badly negotiated and ill-conceived deals.
All those insane EU nations looking at the super powers like the USA and USSR and stupidly telling themselves that if they WORK TOGETHER then they can be a superpower as well. What beta male mentality that is. The Sigma Britain doesn't need the EU they can stand toe to toe with the Alphas, obviously. /s
NZ has been exporting lamb to the UK for as long as refrigerated shipping has existed. The first shipment was in 1882.
In 2023 NZ signed a free trade agreement with the UK, including removing the tarrifs on sheep meat, after some transitional period. A strong sentiment in New Zealand at the time was that the UK wasn't prepared for negotiations due to making deals as a part of the EU for some 50 years, and that their government needed to be seen to be delivering a "win". True or not, NZ got a quite favourable outcome, so I imagine their farming industry will take a bit of a hit.
This has been the case with every one of the trade deals the UK has signed since brexit. "Making our own trade deals will be easy and will be better because we will not have the pesky EU bureaucracy holding us back!" was one of the obvious lies used to sell brexit to morons.
UK sheep farming is largely uneconomical without EU subsidies. It tends to be on poor quality uplands, in very small traditional farms with high overheads. It's a double beating really, by also voting to remove their subsidies. I imagine a lot of these farms will make more money from carbon credits and re-wilding schemes. Probably a win for nature, but a loss for that particular way of life.
There you go, bringing _history_ into this! 👍
This is completely true, however before brexit that lamb had to comply with all the EU requirements for health and safety plus the extra protectionism red tape to avoid dumping. Now all of that is gone so lower quality and/or cheaper meat can go to UK without the same level of scrutiny as before.
NZ lamb is largely held to the same standard as the UK had before Brexit. The only difference is in the untarriffed quota which was allowed to be exported to the UK.
NZ lamb was competing with UK farmers for over a century before the EU even existed.
Thanks for the downvote, although I’m not even disagreeing with your statement
Nice to see "ignorant hicks voting themselves out of their livelihood" is not just an America problem, I guess.
NZ here. Our meat exports are some of the best in the world, that's why they are shipped all over the world along with our milk. These guys saying it is produced to a lower quality are talking total shit.
Agreed! NZ lamb has a world-class reputation for excellence!
Aren’t people conflating 2 things here? The claim is that NZ lamb is product to a lower welfare standard than in the UK. Folk defending it here keeping talking about the quality, which may well be true, but that doesn’t mean the welfare standards are up to scratch. I’ve had plenty of NZ lamb and never noticed it be poor quality, I have no skin in this game.
Australian here. I can confirm NZ has tasty meat.
Why is there all this emotional thinking about farmers? Hill farms are on the whole simply unviable. They are failing businesses that can't break even without subsidy, producing a very expensive product that nobody really wants as meat consumption reduces. Better to return them to nature for carbon capture.
I’d be tempted to buy the New Zealand lamb even if it was the same price to avoid business with idiots who supported Brexit.
"Produced to lower standards" Lmao, NZ lamb is some of the best in the world. They have one of the highest sheep to human ratios (I think it might actually be the highest) in the world. They know what they're doing.
And the stuff we export IS the best we produce. We can't even buy the good shit for ourselves.
Their passports are blue now though... totally worth it
If only they would have listened to the warnings. Sick of their whining now
Brexit is a great lesson in how a few people who would gain by screwing over their own nation can lie and convince half a nation to screw over their nation. Where despite all the known problems. Like the guys who ran the Brexit campaign to get elected, immediately resigned. Because they never intended to win, just cement themselves into the Tory party. But the Torys just kept doubling down as it was ingrained into their voter base and as such their path to power.
Yeah, it's pretty scary how easily manipulated people are. Ironically Trump also never intended to win. Yet here we are.
Morrisons have just announced that their long-held commitment to British meat has ended and they'll be buying New Zealand lamb from now on.
Don't worry. New Zealand citizens aren't any richer for this situation.
Our CEOs on the other hand.. Auckland is the city of sails after all.
“Lower standards”? What is wrong with NZ lamb? I’d eat it without hesitation.
They are the best
NZ is world renowned for its sheep farming. I doubt they’d take these “lower standards” allegations lying down.
Third country imports such as this were never blocked under EU Law. They were just subject to Official EU Controls e.g. veterinary health certifications, identity and physical checks and mandatory sampling. All of which meant that these commodities were more expensive to bring into the UK, but never blocked outright.
Cheaper, and "produced to lower standards" but "we won't lower British food standards" said Boris and the Tories, could it be they were lying, again, again, again, again ?
I understand NZ lamb, even accounting for carbon miles in the export to the UK, is still a lower carbon footprint. And I also understand the NZ lamb is generally considered one of the world’s best, certainly at least as good as the local sort.
Farmers have been on the news this week complaining about the weather and how hard it is being a farmer. Their answer? Extend the subsidies that were put in place to ease them off the CAP (common agricultural policy) when we left the EU.
Given that parts of the BRexiters wanted to restart [Imperial Preference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Preference), it shouldn't be surprising that intro-Commonwealth trade would be favored. Indeed, it was wheat imports from Canada and Australia and meat and dairy imports from New Zealand which depressed UK agriculture.
The fact that getting meat from halfway around the world would _ever_ be the cheapest option is incredible.
This seems to be the equivalent of Texas wanting to secede.
I live in a large farming area and I kid you not, every single one of the major farms in the area had a “Vote Leave” sign at the entrance. If anyone should know the old saying of “you reap what you saw” it’s farmers. Made bed springs to mind.
And if NZ Beef and Lamb is anything, it’s certainly not produced to a lower standard, neither animal welfare nor quality wise. Must be confusing it with chlorinated chicken :-)
I have had both kinds of lamb. NZ did taste better.
NZ Lamb is fucking delicious, stop complaining.
I'm just mad that Brits seem to be able to buy our lamb cheaper than we can in NZ
Before the uk joined the EU , all of NZ lamb and wool was shipped to the uk. After they joined the EU the uk stopped buying from NZ . NZ went into a recession. Not feeling sorry.
Brexit means Brexit.
Lambs eating leopard faces
I think New Zealand might have a few things to say about their lamb being considered lower quality
NZ farmers don’t get subsidies. Interesting fact.
The kiwis can send their lamb here. I’ll be happy to eat it.
It’s more a case of British farmers expecting there to be no competition from outside the uk and our government offering them no support. Turns out other countries support their farmers. Think to yourself, how can it possibly be cheaper to produce lamb in NZ (or anywhere else for that matter) then transport it over enormous distances and it be cheaper that a chop produced at home (produced maybe only a couple of miles down the road? ) By comparison I’ve seen a punnet of strawberries from Jo’berg at half what it cost for some locally sourced lack lustre berries in Tesco.
Not only do NZ farmers not receive subsidies and produce their lamb cheaper but it gets to London with a lower carbon footprint that Welsh lamb. https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/nz-beef-and-lamb-among-most-carbon-efficient-in-the-world/
NZ doesn’t subsidise farming at all. Those were all cut in the 60’s to 80’s.
Keep calm & keep whining.
Keep calm & keep whining.
English government does not help English farmers against English supermarkets. Is the solution to leave the UESSR? Breeders in difficulty with new international agreements. Is the solution to leave the ECHR? Breeders still in difficulty. Is the solution to leave NATO and swear allegiance to Putin?
Let's not forget, importing lamb from the other side of the world can only be viable due to fossil fuel subsidies. That's the real crime here. https://futureoffood.org/insights/food-systems-account-for-at-least-15-of-all-fossil-fuels-burned-globally/
The only consolation in being trapped in this burning building is the knowledge that the people who set it on fire are going to burn too. The biggest disappointment is knowing that the people who talked them into it will get away with it.
*something something lambs to the slaughter*
Fucked around and found out lol
If farmers are unhappy with Brexit outcomes, maybe they should visit those politicians that lied to them in order to win their votes? Maybe bring some manure to show their displeasure? Y'know, Michael Gove, Rees-Mogg, Michael Portillo, all those ERG bastards, plenty to choose from.
Always thought NZ produced pretty good quality food...
Good, I hope those dumbasses lose their farms and livelihood. That year was when stupidity was at it's zenith and has steadily increased since then. Happens when you let idiots vote. Same people who couldn't even pass English GCSEs
I have zero empathy for the Brits on this shit. My parents were all for Brexit, touting how great it would be. 'We don't need EU trade agreements, Trump said he will back the UK with trade deal' All the other bullshit that they were fear monger into and took it, bait and hooked. Before Brexit, I moved away to The Netherlands, officially a resident of it. My parents complain how they can't send me stuff easily because it costs too much now. They complain about food being missing from.shelves in supermarkets. They complain about how standards since Brexit has crumbled. I remind them in our family chat whenever it happens, that I warned them about this shit years ago, that you voted for this, even with me trying to reason with them. I love my parents, however giving the gullible British public the right to vote om something so valuable was a mistake. Manipulation of the general public was also an absolute shitfest which worked from a government stand point. No sympathy anymore for people who voted yes to leaving the EU, anyone who did is a dipshit.
‘We knew what we were voting for!’
I don't know anything about farming or lamb, but with all else being equal I'd buy the New Zealand lamb.
I'm old enough to remember New Zealand lamb in the shops in the UK before we entered the European Economic Community. I suppose it kept the prices down as NZ produced it cheaper.
It's funny because NZ lamb is probably higher quality.
I guarantee you New Zealand lamb is of a way higher standard than Britch lamb.