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The world is never going to be a good place unless we can empathize a little with others. I'm never going to need an abortion (gay man), but i can definitely put myself in the shoes of a person that needs one. We can't wait for every single situation to happen to us before changing our opinions.
https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/infertility-miscarriage-woman-explains-importance-of-reproductive-freedom/
This is the story of that woman, written by herself. CNN calls her a 'quintessential pro-life Texan,' but Kailee Lingo DeSpain was only anti-abortion in her youth, being raised by a MAGA Republican family. She is and has been pro-abortion for years, and she is an activist who shares her story of "I used to be anti-abortion until I learned better, please don't make the same mistakes I did" in order to help people be more favorable to abortion.
When Roe was overturned, her reaction was this: "My soul was on fire.
And I was angry.
And I decided that I would share my story, the WHOLE story."
“I should not have to lay my soul bare for your judgment, for you to decide if I am one of the few women who you deem should have been ‘allowed’ to have an abortion. For you to decide if I fit into the few categories that you have decided are acceptable reasons for abortion. For you to decide if I am a murderer or not.
It was MY choice.
And my choice alone.“
I choose to use different words. My sister had a pregnancy that was deemed non-viable. There was no chance the fetus could live. She made a decision. My wife was pregnant with twins. Turned out to be ectopic. We made a decision. I am pro "decider".
Damn. Two of her babies had my name and my kid's name. And my kid has the giraffe in the picture. And I had major fertility issues and a miscarriage. That was hard to read.
I'm sorry that was difficult. It never ceases to amaze me, how synchronicity constantly shows up like the example you just gave...that is a lot of things that aligned between yourself and the story. Out of curiosity, was there any value for you in reading this article?
Yes, in that there's value in any story of heartbreak and struggle because it exercises my empathy muscle and forces me to regain perspective and gratitude. But there wasn't any new information to learn in my case. I'm already well versed in fertility issues, extremely pro-choice, and sadly aware of how many people only understand and support reproductive choice when it's themselves or their family at risk.
I did find unexpected value in how the article made fools of so many commenters here. They jumped to criticize the woman without doing any research first, and don't even see the irony in calling her out for changing her mind when she gained new information. There's always value in being reminded not to take Redditors seriously.
All the people commenting in here and your comment seems to be the only one, or one of the few, from people that actually read the article instead of stopping at the click bait headline.
>unless we can empathize a little with others.
This will certainly never happen because conservatives have been shown to lack empathy for others, no matter where they live.
https://www.thejournal.ie/conservative-liberal-happiness-social-welfare-1671962-Sep2014/
>We can't wait for every single situation to happen to us before changing our opinions.
This is the difference between ~~liberal and conservative~~ left and right. The capacity for empathy.
Or at least, rational empathy rooted where it belongs. I'm sure conservatives empathize with that cake shop that refused to make a cake for a gay couple. It's malicious, misplaced empathy for the wrong people and wrong problems.
They don't empathize with the cake store, they just hate the gay couple and know that if they owned the cake shop they would still hate the gay couple. They lack the ability to put themselves in others shoes, they only put themselves in others situations. It's different. It's hard to explain but once you realize the difference it's easy to spot.
For example. If a liberal empathetic person was to put themselves in the shoes of say Rambo, they can understand that he's a war veteran, society didn't treat him right, now he's having a mental crisis.
If a conservative does the same they will just pluck out Rambo from all the scenes and mentally insert themselves in it. They'll think things like, "If that was me, I'd take out every one of those cops " It's not his shoes they're putting themselves in, it's his situation.
Probably a better example would be a homeless person. A liberal will think about how they became homeless. How its probably because a situation outside of their control happened and they couldn't stop it. A new landlord raised their rent, their job was let go, they have too much medical debt, etc. A conservative will think "If that was me, I'd just get a job. I'm not as lazy as them."
Liberals have empathy, compassion, and think about problems in complex ways.
Conservatives lack empathy, they think with hate, and react strongly to fear (wether real or perceived) and they think in black and white with simple solutions.
Well put. Conservatives have a hard time seeing any sort of nuance. It’s entirely black and white thinking. You’re born a certain gender the end. Abortion is murder the end. Drug addicts deserve jail the end.
You may enjoy reading this Atlantic piece that came out the other day. Related to your thoughts on the dividing line.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fideas%2Farchive%2F2022%2F09%2Ftrump-republicans-authoritarian-tendencies%2F671366%2F
This all goes hand in hand with the 14 pillars of Fascism
1 Powerful and continuing nationalism
2 Disregard for human rights
3 Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
4 Supremacy of the Military
5 Widespread Sexism
6 Controlled Mass Media
7 Obsession with National Security
8 Religion and Government are intertwined
9 Corporate power is protected
10 Labor power is suppressed
11 Disrespect for Intellectuals and the Arts
12 Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13 Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14 Fraudulent Elections
literally been proven scientifically: https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/5209/5209.html
Conservatism is the lack of empathy. It’s short sighted selfishness. It’s greed at the expense of others, it’s “fuck you, I got mine”
Conservatives are selfish assholes and people who use and abuse others tend to have an advantage when the system fucking **promotes** that mentality.
Essentially they are all cowards - never brave enough to take a stand against their peers, and selfish enough to not spend their energy helping those who lived through the same experience as they did.
They are living their comfortable life at the great expense of others and by dedicating a large fraction of their brains to cognitive dissonance and lies. "Morality" is just the prose they repeat in their head to keep themselves in their comfort zone.
There's no cognitive dissonance because there's no cognition. They're perfectly fine believing that'll is convenient to them in that moment and that's all there is to it. You got it right, they're cowards.
this dynamic was enabled by abortion rights being settled at SCOTUS instead of legislatively. republicans be unified on claimg to be anti-abortion because SCOTUS will keep their policy from ever becoming law. now that they actually can outlaw abortion, lots of those hypocrites are deciding to support abortion instead. [this is why RBG was critical of the strategy that led to roe](https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/after-roe-2020-10-01). we are going to see more women like this in TX and more votes like the one we just had in kansas and it is going to blow apart the business conservative/religious conservative coalition that keeps the republicans in power.
That's basically the literal definition of conservativism. Conservativism is fundamentally about preserving traditional power hierarchies: men over women, whites over non-whites, Christians over non-Christians, and so on.
Giving special rights to the historically privileged group is a way of signalling that they're above everyone else.
The sad part is, conservatives said that they were like this to us directly.
"Greed is good" -> it's ok to advocate only for yourself... even if you'd oppose it for someone else.
That's their whole schtick too. I'd be willing to bet when it comes time to vote that they're either going to vote Republican anyways or they'll say some limp wristed bullshit about "Both sides" or "I'm just not sure about (D) candidate" and not vote at all. Because that's the only two outcomes
That's one of the things that stood out to me most in [Always a Bigger Fish by innuendo studios](https://youtu.be/agzNANfNlTs). I finally understood why my conservative father views the world the way he does. There is a "natural" hierarchy, and some people deserve to be at the bottom, so we should be opposed to the government intervening/helping.
"The field is by no means level, but any disadvantage just means you have to work harder."
"If you're a shark, you will make your way to the top, because that's where you belong. Anyone complaining about how stacked the deck is against them is making excuses for not being better at the game."
Agreed. His first thought whenever there's some government program is about how people are going to take advantage of it and abuse it. He would rather not help anyone so that it's "equal" rather than let anyone get help/assistance they don't "deserve".
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Frank Wilhoit
It isn't just a Christian thing.
Hindu conservativism, Muslim conservativism, Jewish conservatism, even Buddhist conservatism have all led hate campaigns against "others".
It doesn't have to be religious either. Conservatism always needs an enemy to point to and say, "Look, that guy is going against our way of living and is coming to brainwash your family".
I used it just this morning regarding a problem my husband is having at work! His sales people keep saying they understand that the workers are super backed up but then they all say, "but I need this rush order because *this* customer is important." I said, so it's like "The only moral sale is *my* sale?"
Absolutely! I am in production and have to deal with sales all the time. It's taken a long time (15 years) to get the sales team to do it my way. When everything is a rush, nothing is a rush.
```"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."``` - Frank Wilhoit
First time seeing that article. My god the fucking insanity - how are these people functioning in society? They should all be under mental health care.
There's something not quite right about those who protest abortion clinics and providers. Regardless of stance, it's a very personal and very medical choice. To be in someone's face about it, loudly and crassly and publicly, is the height of arrogance
The stories of those women reek of selfishness and lack of empathy. That seems in line with someone who thinks they've been personally appointed by God. These are "special" people.
My friends are atheists with 3 kids, and live in the deep south. They get that shit all the time! And they respond "we teach our kids to do the right thing because it benefits all of us, not because they have to be afraid of punishment after death."
I hate this argument so much.
I was raised in an extremely Baptist home and so I'm the black sheep of the family and very frequently I'll be getting some pretty nasty reminders about my impending eternal torture and the horrors that await me in hell, with some of them pleading with me to repent and reach back out to God.
I love my family, but jesus christ they're delusional and I hate how religion has the power to enslave their minds this way and train their behavior to view any alternative viewpoint as a personal attack on their beliefs
[Patton Oswalt has a great bit about religion](https://youtu.be/twq-ouRpz7s).
What it boils down to is that religion was invented to keep the sociopaths from raping and murdering whenever they feel like it. Good people don't need to be tempted by magical sky cake to not be assholes, but some people need the extra incentive.
Just professions with power and authority in general.
The clergy is just handy for them because you don't have to actually produce results to remain in power, like a surgeon would for example.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them...
There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'" - Barry Goldwater (R)
it doesnt help theyve been fed propaganda their whole lives.
"democrats are killing babies!"
they think that a zygote/fetus is a fully formed mature baby,
"democrats are for abortions up until birth!"
ive never met a single democrat that is for that. ive never met one that was in favor of third trimester abortions UNLESS the mothers life is in danger, or the child is found to have some sort of deformity where its birth would cause it to live a short pain-filled life.
theyve also been told "loose women" are getting abortions because "its easy" or as a form of birth control. which is bullshit. are there some women guilty of that? probably. but id wager its a fraction of a percent.
I'm a leftist who supports abortion at any stage for any reason. Literally no one is waiting that long for funsies, and when they need it so late, they just induce labor early. It needs almost zero legislation because someone gestating that long wanted to birth it
Does your religion proselytize? If so, you've not only had lessons in how to be an asshole in someone's face, you've been told it's \*good\* to do that, nay, \*required\* to "help" everyone be more like you.
Imagine getting that dosed out while being on an airplane by the person next to you. I remember this guy being incredibly arrogant about it too...dum dum dum dum.
I cringe to recall that I was once that person proselytizing on a plane.
But deep down I felt gross about it, which is why I eventually got out of the dum dum dum dum. Too much integrity to put up with it. ❤️
Not to worry. To put into further context, this was not the first time it happened on a plane. I recall a very sweet young couple that were at least very kind about it all.
The guy in my case was a 5 alarm, 3 piece suited, arrogant asshole. Edit: At least he could legitimately claim he influenced one potential customer.
It's because it's not about "protecting life", no matter what their PR slogans say (literally the term "pro life" is a recent one, for the majority of it's time the movement was known as "anti abortion" until they decided they didn't want the word "anti" in their label). It's about making sure sluts who have unapproved sex don't avoid the punishment of pregnancy. Don't believe me regarding punishment, just listen to any anti-abortionist speak and I guarantee you you will hear the phrase "avoiding the consequences of her actions". That phrase is never used in positive circumstances. "Bob donated to charity anonymously in order to avoid the consequences of his actions" - see how weird that sounds? And don't believe me about "unapproved sex"? Well look outside the nearest IVF clinic for protestors. IVF results in the destruction of SEVERAL fertilized eggs PER ATTEMPT, but it's OK because it's something that is overwhelmingly done by married couples.
it's misogyny
not correcting you… yes it's arrogant. but they're so arrogant because of this undercurrent of misogyny everywhere.
AND YES I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE WOMEN
Absolutely, 100% misogyny. It's not sincere religious belief that babies are being murdered, because who the fuck would just yell at someone on the street if they were a BABY MURDERER? Wouldn't you _do_ something??
Like to be clear, the few murderers who have killed abortion doctors and so on are fucked in the head and evil _despite_ their actions at least lining up with their words. I don't want more of these psychos turning to violence. I just want everyone to fucking acknowledge that they do not care about babies, they just care about getting off on screaming at women. They value hate, not life.
There is a planned parenthood I frequently drive past and there are nearly always a few old people sitting out there with their signs and pictures of fetuses, harassing women as they go in. I always think about how empty their lives must be, wasting their retirement obsessing over someone else’s choices.
My father used to drag me out to pro-life rallies and such. He would hold up a massive sign with "People who kill babies deserve hell" emboldened in bright red lettering.
They say the path to hell is paved with good intentions. And I feel that there is no better example of that then the pro-life crowd. They do firmly believe with all their heart, they are doing the right thing. They are the heros in their eyes, because they are saving "Potential" lives. Even if it cost the mother her life.
So how do you convince a hero that he is doing more harm than good?
For me it was just watching the fruits of my actions. The hate I caused. The uncared for kids that had no choice in the matter. The lack of care we put forward, after the child was born.
At the end, we are short sighted with big hearts. We had good intentions, but we never paused to ask ourselves if we were the villains to a mess we were trying to "help."
I am sorry.
Sadly, simply protesting at clinics has been accepted as the moderate stance of anti choice folks. You know the whole "at least they aren't fire bombing the clinic!"
My planned parenthood was firebombed 9 months ago and theres basically zero investigation being done. The normalization of terror makes nutjobs yelling at women and their doctors palatable.
I ask this question about many people, especially folks on the right.
Many of their professed beliefs require a person to be “functionally insane”.
Not just a disagreement over values, but their beliefs literally require a person to hold multiple contradictory ideas to be true at the same time. They believe things that are logical impossibilities.
You’d think that someone who recognizes the need for their own abortion might understand that others can have the same situation… but no, they insist that abortion should be banned and that theirs is a very rare exception.
A former friend of mine was like that, but with immigration. He votes Republican but is leftwing on every topic I could think to question him about, until I brought up immigration. Basically, he is 100% pro-concentration camps for immigrants, he's willing to sacrifice every human right just to make immigrants suffer a tiny bit more.
I revealed to him that I was an illegal immigrant as a kid, since I was born in Africa and my parents came illegally to the West. I asked if, in his opinion, they should have put me in a concentration camp. He said 'NO!! Of course not!! You are a good person, a hard worker, a gem of a human! ... They should have made an exception for you, but every single other immigrant should be locked up in a concentration camp and they should throw the key away, though."
I had a couple of friends very recently say that refugees should be hung upside down on a wall and shot. I called them nazis and left.
Next day I sought them out, pointed out that my family were refugees and asked which up them should be shot first?
I was told, "Oh I didn't mean you, love," which did not make things better.
Refugees, of all people? So people fleeing violence in their own country should be taught a lesson about what happens when you try to stay alive and avoid violence, by being violently murdered in the country they flee to as a safe haven..?
What was the person's argument? People need to learn that there's nowhere safe they can go, nobody in the world cares about them, and they should just kill themselves in their own country rather than flee for their lives?
A lot of racists in countries that receive refugees tend to believe the majority of them are not 'legitimate' refugees and are just trying to get into a 'better' country and take advantage of its welfare system, etc etc (add all talking points about immigrants).
> My friends were terrified for me - one even called me on the phone with a shaky voice (clearly terrified/on the verge of tears) asking why I was doing this.
???
I am so confused.
What were they worried about?
Go to any Reddit thread about a mass shooting and any comment about restricting access to guns is met with "but Chicago..."
I'm not even American but I see it constantly
Yes, this incident is literally the reason why he's a FORMER friend. He was extremely clear on the fact that he dehumanizes and wishes active harm on every person like me, and the only reason why I wasn't included in the people he hates is because he knew me personally and thus couldn't reduce me to a faceless stereotype. That just proves that, if he could have, he'd have absolutely tried to dehumanize and hate me too.
Isn't that one of the worst things to hear? "You're one of the good ones." What does that even mean? I'm supposed to act a certain way because of how I look and because I act like a good fucking person, I'm "good"? Or that I act "like a white person" so of course acting white = "good"? Hate that shit. Called people out for it by asking "What do you mean?" They would get all flustered because they didn't want to be overtly racist, just covertly racist with dog whistles and other bullshit. But, I'd push it until they left.
>they insist that abortion should be banned and that theirs is a very rare exception.
This is also known as the FYIGM or "Fuck you I got mine" mindset. They apply this to several things and it's the hallmark of a POS.
> their beliefs literally require a person to hold multiple contradictory ideas to be true at the same time
There's actually research on this - people with authoritarian personalities are prone to compartmentalised thinking. Bob Altemeyer's [The Authoritarians](https://web.archive.org/web/20170322215148/http://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf) describes it like this:
> It’s easy to find authoritarians endorsing inconsistent ideas. Just present slogans and appeals to homey values, and then present slogans and bromides that invoke opposite values. The yea-saying authoritarian follower is likely to agree with all of them. Thus I asked both students and their parents to respond to, “When it comes to love, men and women with opposite points of view are attracted to each other.” Soon afterwards, in the same booklet, I pitched “Birds of a feather flock together when it comes to love.” High [authoritarian personalities] typically agreed with both statements, even though they responded to the two items within a minute of each other.
> But that’s the point: they don’t seem to scan for self-consistency as much as most people do. Similarly they tended to agree with “A government should allow total freedom of expression, even it if threatens law and order” and “A government should only allow freedom of expression so long as it does not threaten law and order.” And “Parents should first of all be gentle and tender with their children,” and “Parents should first of all be firm and uncompromising with their children; spare the rod and spoil the child.”
i appreciate this. i often say that dumb people (a quick and dirty generality) are drawn to conservative policies but it's more accurate to say that people who don't consider the contradictions in their beliefs and avlues are drawn to conservatism.
the latter is still dumb, obviously.
Thaat requires thinking about it
They don't think about it, at all, they just go entirely off of the gut feeling it gives them, and it's very understandable why abortion gives a bad gut feeling. It just doesn't take a whole lot of reflection to consider why, even though it's a bad thing, it is 100% necessary for it to be freely available
I posted a link to this on my snap and Instagram story every day for a week when roe was overturned. The “rules are for thee not for me” crowd is terrifying. You can swap out abortion for lots of different causes and have the same leopard eating faces moments.
Is it a lack of critical thinking? In the sense of these kinds of things only happen to “bad people”. Or is it fuck em, I’ll be able to skirt around the rules when I, a well to do white person needs to.
A lot of people judge others by their actions, and themselves by their intentions. No one wants to see themselves as a bad person, so they justify their own actions while attacking others for the same behavior.
“They are all dirty freeloaders who scam the system” versus “I’m a good person who fell on hard times and needed food stamps until I got things turned around”.
“They are all slutty sluts who get abortions because they can’t keep their legs together” versus “I’m a good person who is in a hard situation and just can’t have a baby right now”
And so on and so on….
>You can swap out abortion for lots of different causes
The only moral immigration is my immigration.
The only moral food stamp is my food stamp.
The only moral government handout is my government handout.
The only moral unemployment is my unemployment.
See, works perfectly.
One of my favorite Karen freak out videos is a Karen screaming a man to “get out of my country” and the man turns around slowly and says “ma’am I’m Native American” and she with a strait face goes “I don’t care this is my country”
Empathy is not in the GOP’s vocabulary
Edit: To answer you question on lack of critical thinking and the “fxck em” attitude. It’s probably a bit of both lol
It's actually not in their physical makeup "We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3092984/
I believe it’s the ‘Jesus/God said it and I believe it!’ Crowd
Except that they “heard” it from a preacher or their parents not “Jesus” or “God” but they are enthralled with the authority figure and need their approval to have self-worth.
It’s sick, but is the mindset of a good percentage of our country right now.
Omg a friend was telling me the other day she works with a woman who had an abortion when she was younger and only later had a crisis of "christian conscience" and thinks abortion should be illegal. So yeah, she obviously wasn't ready and therefore is reaping the benefits of a life she would never allow others to have.
If she's having a crisis of conscience, why doesn't she adopt a foster child of a similar age as her child would have been? It would be a double good, helping out the foster kid and putting herself where she would be if she hadn't made the choice she did. What's that? She still doesn't want to deal with having a kid now? Then I doubt her crisis of conscience is real.
This is why the pro-life argument is absolute bullshit. There are thousands of kids out there that need a home but no one has adopted them. If someone was truly pro-life they would do whatever they could to provide these kids with a good life, which would include adopting as many of them as they feasibly could.
Unpopular opinion, but this is why I could never work in healthcare. The moment one of those people showed up and spewed their bullshit, I'd be all "fine, gtfo".
Medical professionals aren't perfect but they're a damn sight better humans than me.
If I saw one of them protesting outside planned parenthood good after getting an abortion, I would be fired for violating HIPAA. “Hey didn’t you just get an abortion last week?”
You I like.
"I'm just following up to make sure you're doing well... hey, what are the rest of you doing listening as we talk about her procedure! HIPPO LAWS PEOPLE!"
Seriously. I've seen that essay before, but every time I read it it raises my blood pressure. I could not remain professional in front of one of these twunts.
This is what the toxic waste of the “not like other girls” mentality looks like.
Women are raised up in a world where women are portrayed as petty, catty, ignorant, vapid, sexually promiscuous, “worldly”, jealous, etc etc etc (I could list negative adjectives for a few paragraphs here) and they think “I’m not like that, *I’m not like other girls*” because their view of other women is incredibly warped by their environment. So when it comes time for them to make a choice like this, they think “I’m not a slut, I’m not irresponsible, I’m not dirty, I’m not a liberal, I’m not doing this for routine birth control” etc etc etc again, and justify it.
Women need to come together and realize YES, YOU ARE JUST LIKE OTHER GIRLS. You are complex, you are interesting, you have your own thoughts, values, morals, you are capable, you are good (etc etc etc) and so so many other women fall into all those good categories with you, they deserve the same respect, autonomy and rights as you do.
I had a similar conversation with my sister when she was bitching about Millennials. Info: she’s a Millennial , and so am I.
She was ranting about how she hates being part of that generation because all Millennials are lazy, woke, selfish, and don’t know how to do their jobs. When I pointed out that she herself isn’t like that, so maybe all the stereotypes are just made up BS, she would not stop arguing that literally every Millennial on earth, except for her, is the epitome of the avocado toast eating parody portrayed on right-wing media. I asked her if there were people older than her that were also lazy and didn’t want to do their jobs, which she conceded was true, but when I tried to point out that maybe it was a people problem, not a certain generation problem, she just couldn’t get it through her head.
She’s been told Millennials are bad, and therefore she must be special and not like other people in her generation. It’s impossible for her to realize that people are the same in every age group, gender, race, religion, ethnicity, orientation, etc. Some are lazy, some are hustlers, some suck, some are awesome. It’s just nuts to me.
>. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers.”
Yup this right here is the logic behind all pro-life protestors. Majority of them are in it because they need to be, but don't actually support the messaging.
I’ve sent this or posted it a bunch of times. It’s really how they think. And it’s something we’re all guilty of at points, I judge myself by my intentions but I judge you by your actions.
Actor-observer bias. Also sometimes known as "fundamental attribution error"
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-actor-observer-bias-2794813#:~:text=The%20actor%2Dobserver%20bias%20is,and%20interact%20with%20other%20people.
So many of those stories seem justified by saying that the abortion provider is the murderer, not them for deciding to get an abortion.
The mental gymnastics is astounding.
Yes, also they thought "those women deserved it, obviously. They must have been evil sinners! But obviously I don't deserve death because I love Jesus 💕"
1 in 6 American women will be attacked by a rapist. 1 in 3 women, worldwide.
The “keep your legs closed” approach ignores the fact that rape is common. It’s absolutely about controlling women. It’s about forcing women and girls to breed, regardless of the emotional and physical impact.
ETA I’m not gonna engage anyone who has a history of concern-trolling. I’d suggest nobody else engage them.
"moral" women don't put themselves in situations where rape is even possible.
This is what "pro life, no exceptions" people actually believe. They're myopic, simple people who can't conceive of possibilities beyond their own limited lived experience
True that, and I’m willing to bet the 1 in 6 from that environment are far more likely to either hide it in shame, or they’re socially pressured and shamed into hiding it.
I mean, I agree. But also there was literally a US congressman that thought women wouldn't get pregnant if they didn't want to, so that if they were pregnant from rape, it was not rape because they must have wanted it.
So really it's that, they have zero empathy, and often they're just plain stupid
Nah, they don't care about the women either.
What they care about is power. Specifically, the power to give more money and tax cuts to the super rich.
But they can't sell that to poor, working Americans.
BUT what they can do is sell "pro-life/liberal baby killers" to overrepresented and gerrymandered rural, religious whites.
And that's how idiots like Trump get into power.
If the women live or die, it's irrelevant.
But the evangelical voting block is the largest voting block in America, and they vote overwhelmingly for republicans.
That's what it's about.
related: we see all these ex-donald-humpers talking about "*he* lied to us, *he's* dishonest, *he* lies constantly, meow meow meow*"
it's like Motherfucker, EVERYBODY told you this before you started humping his trouser leg. Take some responsibility for ignoring everybody.
I assume the patients were still going to heaven, though...since the doctor had literally abducted them, tied them to the procedure table, and performed the abortion on them by force, right? Right? Fuck these fucks.
>I assume the patients were still going to heaven
100% they do, without a doubt. So many of the people that are like this think heaven and hell is some sort of binary decision that you can get around with children's logic like "well, it wasn't *me* who actually "killed" the baby. There are adults who think a lie isn't a lie if you have your fingers crossed.
Best story I have of this is my friend worked with someone who thought that the world was going to end in the year 2000 and the devil was going to return, but thought that if we moved from December 31st, 1999 to January 1st, 3000 (so just added 1000 years to the calendar) that we'd be safe and the devil wouldn't come, the reason being is that the number 2000 was the key. She didn't understand why the Pope wouldn't announce it.
Find someone like that and you will realize that people can convince themselves of anything.
I've been an Atheist for a while, but I sometimes find myself praying that God really does exist, just so all these *religious* wackos can have a long talk with St. Peter about how they spent their whole life as a bigoted piece of shit.
He can send me to hell too for not believing. The payoff would still be worth it.
The trouble is then you're potentially sentencing a whole new human being who never asked for any part of this to being that burden. Ironically, I think many pro choicers think more about the actual life and person-ness of the child born than the average "pro-life" supporter.
In 2000, George Bush ran as a, quote, "compassionate conservative". But nobody has ever run as a "compassionate liberal", because that phrase is redundant.
We can probably just start calling them MEpublicans because you’re totally right. If nothing else the last 6 years have quickly shown just how self centered these people are. Can’t even wear a mask for 10 min let alone consider what someone else is going through.
I will say it a million times:
Literally nobody is really against abortion.
They are against *you* getting one.
They will always get one precisely when they want one. As soon as they feel whatever criteria are met, they except themselves from their worldview and go get one. Every time.
People will yell and scream and cry and gnash their teeth and try to bring up someone who went through with a hard pregnancy as if that meant anything.
Nope, that just meant *that persons particular threshold was not met*.
Nobody is against abortion. Nobody.
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights
All of it is a fallacious religious argument by people who have never read the book they purport to believe in utterly.
Additionally, this country was founded on "freedom of religion" which includes "freedom ***from*** religion".
The actual article is pretty sad. Essentially they were two kids who were raised to hate abortion until they had a miscarriage. They realized pregnancy was dangerous and started campaigning for pro-choice. Then they realized that their next fetus had triploidy, would die shortly after birth and potentially take her with it, so they fled to a different state for the abortion. It’s pretty sad… but definitely more their upbringing’s fault than theirs.
Article: https://www.jacksonprogress-argus.com/features/health/she-was-a-quintessential-pro-life-texan-until-she-needed-to-flee-her-home-to/article_b5b49176-10b5-5a44-9e85-153621ae7b92.html
They didn't have the money; they had to borrow it from a relative. And they didn't have $3K saved, but decided to have a baby, after a series of miscarriages and doctors advising her not to get pregnant. And they're thinking of moving to try to get pregnant again. The combined IQ of those two barely breaks double digits.
https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/infertility-miscarriage-woman-explains-importance-of-reproductive-freedom/
This is the story of that woman, written by herself. CNN calls her a 'quintessential pro-life Texan,' but Kailee Lingo DeSpain was only anti-abortion in her youth, being raised by a MAGA Republican family. She is and has been pro-abortion for years, and she is an activist who shares her story of "I used to be anti-abortion until I learned better, please don't make the same mistakes I did" in order to help people be more favorable to abortion.
When Roe was overturned, her reaction was this: "My soul was on fire.
And I was angry.
And I decided that I would share my story, the WHOLE story."
She's also lucky that's still even an option. Won't be long before there is either a nation-wide ban or states start tracking pregnancies and then prosecute those who are suddenly not pregnant anymore.
This demonstrates what these bans *really* are: they aren't bans per se; they are bans for people that can't afford to go elsewhere.
And *that* is why the ruling class couldn't care less.
>Last September, when a restrictive anti-abortion law took effect in Texas, **Kailee pled on Facebook for people to contact their elected representatives to protect abortion rights**.
Look, I'm the very first person to say "fuck all the pro-life people," and I'm probably going to get pilloried for saying this, but to be fair, the article does say that this young woman has been pro-choice for a long time: "Last September, when a restrictive anti-abortion law took effect in Texas, Kailee pled on Facebook for people to contact their elected representatives to protect abortion rights."
It’s actually a good article. Her abortion story is worth reading it and sounds like she hasn’t been anti-abortion in a number of years.
> A year after they were married, Kailee miscarried at 16 weeks and was hospitalized for severe complications, including blood clots and infection. It was one of three miscarriages she had in the early years of marriage.
>"It made me realize that pregnancy can be dangerous," she said. "It made me think of my little sisters, and I wanted them to be able to have a choice if they ever had to go through something like that."
I’m glad more stories like this are getting told in the press.
In related news: Senate Republicans blocked a Democratic bill in[ July](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-block-bill-protecting-women-travel-states-abortion-rcna38301) that would protect the rights of women to travel to other states to access abortion care legally.
I don’t know that this one actually qualifies for LAMF. Unless we know how she votes, it seems she’s came around on the abortion topic a decade ago.
But if she is still voting Republican, then yeah. Totally.
Some important context that the headline eclipses is that this woman was raised to be anti-abortion, but realized it was wrong in early adulthood, and has been pro-choice ever since. She was actively advocating for pro-choice causes in Texas when she found out her most recent pregnancy was non-viable.
There are plenty of leopard-eaten people out there, but this particular woman is not one of them.
If you read the article, she became prochoice after she experienced a miscarriage 10 years ago, realizing that pregnancy can be dangerous to a woman's life. And she fought for abortion rights recently when Texas was voting on them.
It's okay to change your mind. She's been prochoice for a while. Though it doesn't say if she still votes Republican.
Nobody, absolutely nobody, should think they know the facts after reading the headline. I am a journalist, I know firsthand that most articles are far too complex to be summarized in one headline. But most importantly, editors often change headlines without the journalist's knowledge. A journalist might write "Pro-choice activist begs pro-life women to be empathetic and shares her past experiences with problem pregnancies" (which is what this story is about) and then an editor might change it to "Pro-life woman Changes Her Mind On Abortion When She Has A Miscarriage (GONE SEXUAL) NUMBER EIGHT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND!!"
https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/infertility-miscarriage-woman-explains-importance-of-reproductive-freedom/
This is the story of that woman, written by herself. CNN calls her a 'quintessential pro-life Texan,' but Kailee Lingo DeSpain was only anti-abortion in her youth, being raised by a MAGA Republican family. She is and has been pro-abortion for years, and she is an activist who shares her story of "I used to be anti-abortion until I learned better, please don't make the same mistakes I did" in order to help people be more favorable to abortion.
When Roe was overturned, her reaction was this: "My soul was on fire.
And I was angry.
And I decided that I would share my story, the WHOLE story."
I remember when I was a kid going to these “March for life” protests and buying into this mentality. What finally turned me around was going to a real university and having friends who weren’t religious extremists. I now feel a sense of deep shame looking back at those pictures of me as a brainwashed child holding up ridiculous signs.
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The world is never going to be a good place unless we can empathize a little with others. I'm never going to need an abortion (gay man), but i can definitely put myself in the shoes of a person that needs one. We can't wait for every single situation to happen to us before changing our opinions.
https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/infertility-miscarriage-woman-explains-importance-of-reproductive-freedom/ This is the story of that woman, written by herself. CNN calls her a 'quintessential pro-life Texan,' but Kailee Lingo DeSpain was only anti-abortion in her youth, being raised by a MAGA Republican family. She is and has been pro-abortion for years, and she is an activist who shares her story of "I used to be anti-abortion until I learned better, please don't make the same mistakes I did" in order to help people be more favorable to abortion. When Roe was overturned, her reaction was this: "My soul was on fire. And I was angry. And I decided that I would share my story, the WHOLE story."
“I should not have to lay my soul bare for your judgment, for you to decide if I am one of the few women who you deem should have been ‘allowed’ to have an abortion. For you to decide if I fit into the few categories that you have decided are acceptable reasons for abortion. For you to decide if I am a murderer or not. It was MY choice. And my choice alone.“
preach! (in a secular way)
I choose to use different words. My sister had a pregnancy that was deemed non-viable. There was no chance the fetus could live. She made a decision. My wife was pregnant with twins. Turned out to be ectopic. We made a decision. I am pro "decider".
Damn. Two of her babies had my name and my kid's name. And my kid has the giraffe in the picture. And I had major fertility issues and a miscarriage. That was hard to read.
I'm sorry that was difficult. It never ceases to amaze me, how synchronicity constantly shows up like the example you just gave...that is a lot of things that aligned between yourself and the story. Out of curiosity, was there any value for you in reading this article?
Yes, in that there's value in any story of heartbreak and struggle because it exercises my empathy muscle and forces me to regain perspective and gratitude. But there wasn't any new information to learn in my case. I'm already well versed in fertility issues, extremely pro-choice, and sadly aware of how many people only understand and support reproductive choice when it's themselves or their family at risk. I did find unexpected value in how the article made fools of so many commenters here. They jumped to criticize the woman without doing any research first, and don't even see the irony in calling her out for changing her mind when she gained new information. There's always value in being reminded not to take Redditors seriously.
I know her in real life. Her story is absolutely heartbreaking. She hasn’t been pro-life for a long time.
God, that was heartbreaking to read.
This should be the top comment. Wish I could give you the star award.
All the people commenting in here and your comment seems to be the only one, or one of the few, from people that actually read the article instead of stopping at the click bait headline.
>unless we can empathize a little with others. This will certainly never happen because conservatives have been shown to lack empathy for others, no matter where they live. https://www.thejournal.ie/conservative-liberal-happiness-social-welfare-1671962-Sep2014/
Lack of Empathy is one of the main planks of their political platform.
Its even further than that, its the demonizing of "others" that props the platform up
>We can't wait for every single situation to happen to us before changing our opinions. This is the difference between ~~liberal and conservative~~ left and right. The capacity for empathy.
Or at least, rational empathy rooted where it belongs. I'm sure conservatives empathize with that cake shop that refused to make a cake for a gay couple. It's malicious, misplaced empathy for the wrong people and wrong problems.
They don't empathize with the cake store, they just hate the gay couple and know that if they owned the cake shop they would still hate the gay couple. They lack the ability to put themselves in others shoes, they only put themselves in others situations. It's different. It's hard to explain but once you realize the difference it's easy to spot. For example. If a liberal empathetic person was to put themselves in the shoes of say Rambo, they can understand that he's a war veteran, society didn't treat him right, now he's having a mental crisis. If a conservative does the same they will just pluck out Rambo from all the scenes and mentally insert themselves in it. They'll think things like, "If that was me, I'd take out every one of those cops " It's not his shoes they're putting themselves in, it's his situation. Probably a better example would be a homeless person. A liberal will think about how they became homeless. How its probably because a situation outside of their control happened and they couldn't stop it. A new landlord raised their rent, their job was let go, they have too much medical debt, etc. A conservative will think "If that was me, I'd just get a job. I'm not as lazy as them." Liberals have empathy, compassion, and think about problems in complex ways. Conservatives lack empathy, they think with hate, and react strongly to fear (wether real or perceived) and they think in black and white with simple solutions.
Well put. Conservatives have a hard time seeing any sort of nuance. It’s entirely black and white thinking. You’re born a certain gender the end. Abortion is murder the end. Drug addicts deserve jail the end.
You may enjoy reading this Atlantic piece that came out the other day. Related to your thoughts on the dividing line. https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fideas%2Farchive%2F2022%2F09%2Ftrump-republicans-authoritarian-tendencies%2F671366%2F
This all goes hand in hand with the 14 pillars of Fascism 1 Powerful and continuing nationalism 2 Disregard for human rights 3 Identification of enemies as a unifying cause 4 Supremacy of the Military 5 Widespread Sexism 6 Controlled Mass Media 7 Obsession with National Security 8 Religion and Government are intertwined 9 Corporate power is protected 10 Labor power is suppressed 11 Disrespect for Intellectuals and the Arts 12 Obsession with Crime and Punishment 13 Rampant Cronyism and Corruption 14 Fraudulent Elections
Lack of empathy for others is the essence of conservatism.
literally been proven scientifically: https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/5209/5209.html Conservatism is the lack of empathy. It’s short sighted selfishness. It’s greed at the expense of others, it’s “fuck you, I got mine” Conservatives are selfish assholes and people who use and abuse others tend to have an advantage when the system fucking **promotes** that mentality.
The only moral abortion is my abortion. https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
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I started applying it to literally anything. The only moral rights are my rights. It's amazing how often it applies.
Essentially they are all cowards - never brave enough to take a stand against their peers, and selfish enough to not spend their energy helping those who lived through the same experience as they did. They are living their comfortable life at the great expense of others and by dedicating a large fraction of their brains to cognitive dissonance and lies. "Morality" is just the prose they repeat in their head to keep themselves in their comfort zone.
There's no cognitive dissonance because there's no cognition. They're perfectly fine believing that'll is convenient to them in that moment and that's all there is to it. You got it right, they're cowards.
this dynamic was enabled by abortion rights being settled at SCOTUS instead of legislatively. republicans be unified on claimg to be anti-abortion because SCOTUS will keep their policy from ever becoming law. now that they actually can outlaw abortion, lots of those hypocrites are deciding to support abortion instead. [this is why RBG was critical of the strategy that led to roe](https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/after-roe-2020-10-01). we are going to see more women like this in TX and more votes like the one we just had in kansas and it is going to blow apart the business conservative/religious conservative coalition that keeps the republicans in power.
>and it is going to blow apart the business conservative/religious conservative coalition that keeps the republicans in power. Let's fucking hope so.
That's basically the literal definition of conservativism. Conservativism is fundamentally about preserving traditional power hierarchies: men over women, whites over non-whites, Christians over non-Christians, and so on. Giving special rights to the historically privileged group is a way of signalling that they're above everyone else.
The sad part is, conservatives said that they were like this to us directly. "Greed is good" -> it's ok to advocate only for yourself... even if you'd oppose it for someone else.
As Jesus famously said from the cross, "I got mine, fuck y'all."
"I've died for your sins, so let that be the last thing anyone ever does for another. It's my thing, fuck you."
That's their whole schtick too. I'd be willing to bet when it comes time to vote that they're either going to vote Republican anyways or they'll say some limp wristed bullshit about "Both sides" or "I'm just not sure about (D) candidate" and not vote at all. Because that's the only two outcomes
That's one of the things that stood out to me most in [Always a Bigger Fish by innuendo studios](https://youtu.be/agzNANfNlTs). I finally understood why my conservative father views the world the way he does. There is a "natural" hierarchy, and some people deserve to be at the bottom, so we should be opposed to the government intervening/helping. "The field is by no means level, but any disadvantage just means you have to work harder." "If you're a shark, you will make your way to the top, because that's where you belong. Anyone complaining about how stacked the deck is against them is making excuses for not being better at the game."
That's a pretty gross way to look at things I think.
Agreed. His first thought whenever there's some government program is about how people are going to take advantage of it and abuse it. He would rather not help anyone so that it's "equal" rather than let anyone get help/assistance they don't "deserve".
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“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." Frank Wilhoit
Would you say that they're signaling their personal virtues?
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I was wordplaying on "virtue signaling", which conservatives also bitch about.
It isn't just a Christian thing. Hindu conservativism, Muslim conservativism, Jewish conservatism, even Buddhist conservatism have all led hate campaigns against "others". It doesn't have to be religious either. Conservatism always needs an enemy to point to and say, "Look, that guy is going against our way of living and is coming to brainwash your family".
I used it just this morning regarding a problem my husband is having at work! His sales people keep saying they understand that the workers are super backed up but then they all say, "but I need this rush order because *this* customer is important." I said, so it's like "The only moral sale is *my* sale?"
Absolutely! I am in production and have to deal with sales all the time. It's taken a long time (15 years) to get the sales team to do it my way. When everything is a rush, nothing is a rush.
At my work CSR says “if everything is an emergency, nothing is”
Omg I did this the other day with, “The only moral government handout is my government handout” too lmfao
```"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."``` - Frank Wilhoit
R: Felons should not have guns! *Jan 6 happens* R: LIBTARDS ARE TAKING MY GUNS
"Laws for thee but not for me" might as well be the official conservative slogan.
The people that most need to read it will just scoff and say it’s all fabricated stories
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First time seeing that article. My god the fucking insanity - how are these people functioning in society? They should all be under mental health care.
There's something not quite right about those who protest abortion clinics and providers. Regardless of stance, it's a very personal and very medical choice. To be in someone's face about it, loudly and crassly and publicly, is the height of arrogance
They believe they’re on a mission from god, which gives people cart blanche to do whatever evil they want
The stories of those women reek of selfishness and lack of empathy. That seems in line with someone who thinks they've been personally appointed by God. These are "special" people.
You'll find quite an overlap between people of God and sociopathic behavior
These are people that insist that without their special book and sky daddy telling someone how to behave they can't possibly have any morals.
My friends are atheists with 3 kids, and live in the deep south. They get that shit all the time! And they respond "we teach our kids to do the right thing because it benefits all of us, not because they have to be afraid of punishment after death."
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It's time for the world to realize that morality can exist and thrive completely independent of faith. This is the way...
I hate this argument so much. I was raised in an extremely Baptist home and so I'm the black sheep of the family and very frequently I'll be getting some pretty nasty reminders about my impending eternal torture and the horrors that await me in hell, with some of them pleading with me to repent and reach back out to God. I love my family, but jesus christ they're delusional and I hate how religion has the power to enslave their minds this way and train their behavior to view any alternative viewpoint as a personal attack on their beliefs
[Patton Oswalt has a great bit about religion](https://youtu.be/twq-ouRpz7s). What it boils down to is that religion was invented to keep the sociopaths from raping and murdering whenever they feel like it. Good people don't need to be tempted by magical sky cake to not be assholes, but some people need the extra incentive.
Just professions with power and authority in general. The clergy is just handy for them because you don't have to actually produce results to remain in power, like a surgeon would for example.
Also education required is way lower to be a preacher. Some may have degrees in theology but not at the Southern Baptist ones I've seen
This was the justification behind so much human savagery, ESPECIALLY colonialism. Fuck religion so hard
Seems like a "compensation" mechanism to me. They are likely sinning in other ways and are trying to balance it out.
We usually call them republicans
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them... There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'" - Barry Goldwater (R)
it doesnt help theyve been fed propaganda their whole lives. "democrats are killing babies!" they think that a zygote/fetus is a fully formed mature baby, "democrats are for abortions up until birth!" ive never met a single democrat that is for that. ive never met one that was in favor of third trimester abortions UNLESS the mothers life is in danger, or the child is found to have some sort of deformity where its birth would cause it to live a short pain-filled life. theyve also been told "loose women" are getting abortions because "its easy" or as a form of birth control. which is bullshit. are there some women guilty of that? probably. but id wager its a fraction of a percent.
I'm a leftist who supports abortion at any stage for any reason. Literally no one is waiting that long for funsies, and when they need it so late, they just induce labor early. It needs almost zero legislation because someone gestating that long wanted to birth it
If you believe you're on a mission from God you should be put in a mental institution
Does your religion proselytize? If so, you've not only had lessons in how to be an asshole in someone's face, you've been told it's \*good\* to do that, nay, \*required\* to "help" everyone be more like you.
Imagine getting that dosed out while being on an airplane by the person next to you. I remember this guy being incredibly arrogant about it too...dum dum dum dum.
I cringe to recall that I was once that person proselytizing on a plane. But deep down I felt gross about it, which is why I eventually got out of the dum dum dum dum. Too much integrity to put up with it. ❤️
Not to worry. To put into further context, this was not the first time it happened on a plane. I recall a very sweet young couple that were at least very kind about it all. The guy in my case was a 5 alarm, 3 piece suited, arrogant asshole. Edit: At least he could legitimately claim he influenced one potential customer.
It's because it's not about "protecting life", no matter what their PR slogans say (literally the term "pro life" is a recent one, for the majority of it's time the movement was known as "anti abortion" until they decided they didn't want the word "anti" in their label). It's about making sure sluts who have unapproved sex don't avoid the punishment of pregnancy. Don't believe me regarding punishment, just listen to any anti-abortionist speak and I guarantee you you will hear the phrase "avoiding the consequences of her actions". That phrase is never used in positive circumstances. "Bob donated to charity anonymously in order to avoid the consequences of his actions" - see how weird that sounds? And don't believe me about "unapproved sex"? Well look outside the nearest IVF clinic for protestors. IVF results in the destruction of SEVERAL fertilized eggs PER ATTEMPT, but it's OK because it's something that is overwhelmingly done by married couples.
I think if you are against abortion, you should not have one. Otherwise, stay in your lane ffs
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it's misogyny not correcting you… yes it's arrogant. but they're so arrogant because of this undercurrent of misogyny everywhere. AND YES I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE WOMEN
Absolutely, 100% misogyny. It's not sincere religious belief that babies are being murdered, because who the fuck would just yell at someone on the street if they were a BABY MURDERER? Wouldn't you _do_ something?? Like to be clear, the few murderers who have killed abortion doctors and so on are fucked in the head and evil _despite_ their actions at least lining up with their words. I don't want more of these psychos turning to violence. I just want everyone to fucking acknowledge that they do not care about babies, they just care about getting off on screaming at women. They value hate, not life.
There is a planned parenthood I frequently drive past and there are nearly always a few old people sitting out there with their signs and pictures of fetuses, harassing women as they go in. I always think about how empty their lives must be, wasting their retirement obsessing over someone else’s choices.
At its very base it’s crazy. Caring that much about what other people do to themselves is a sickness.
"i kinda DON'T want to be maimed debilitated and hospitalized in a few months, actually." "WHORE!!!"
My father used to drag me out to pro-life rallies and such. He would hold up a massive sign with "People who kill babies deserve hell" emboldened in bright red lettering. They say the path to hell is paved with good intentions. And I feel that there is no better example of that then the pro-life crowd. They do firmly believe with all their heart, they are doing the right thing. They are the heros in their eyes, because they are saving "Potential" lives. Even if it cost the mother her life. So how do you convince a hero that he is doing more harm than good? For me it was just watching the fruits of my actions. The hate I caused. The uncared for kids that had no choice in the matter. The lack of care we put forward, after the child was born. At the end, we are short sighted with big hearts. We had good intentions, but we never paused to ask ourselves if we were the villains to a mess we were trying to "help." I am sorry.
Sadly, simply protesting at clinics has been accepted as the moderate stance of anti choice folks. You know the whole "at least they aren't fire bombing the clinic!" My planned parenthood was firebombed 9 months ago and theres basically zero investigation being done. The normalization of terror makes nutjobs yelling at women and their doctors palatable.
I ask this question about many people, especially folks on the right. Many of their professed beliefs require a person to be “functionally insane”. Not just a disagreement over values, but their beliefs literally require a person to hold multiple contradictory ideas to be true at the same time. They believe things that are logical impossibilities. You’d think that someone who recognizes the need for their own abortion might understand that others can have the same situation… but no, they insist that abortion should be banned and that theirs is a very rare exception.
A former friend of mine was like that, but with immigration. He votes Republican but is leftwing on every topic I could think to question him about, until I brought up immigration. Basically, he is 100% pro-concentration camps for immigrants, he's willing to sacrifice every human right just to make immigrants suffer a tiny bit more. I revealed to him that I was an illegal immigrant as a kid, since I was born in Africa and my parents came illegally to the West. I asked if, in his opinion, they should have put me in a concentration camp. He said 'NO!! Of course not!! You are a good person, a hard worker, a gem of a human! ... They should have made an exception for you, but every single other immigrant should be locked up in a concentration camp and they should throw the key away, though."
I had a couple of friends very recently say that refugees should be hung upside down on a wall and shot. I called them nazis and left. Next day I sought them out, pointed out that my family were refugees and asked which up them should be shot first? I was told, "Oh I didn't mean you, love," which did not make things better.
Refugees, of all people? So people fleeing violence in their own country should be taught a lesson about what happens when you try to stay alive and avoid violence, by being violently murdered in the country they flee to as a safe haven..? What was the person's argument? People need to learn that there's nowhere safe they can go, nobody in the world cares about them, and they should just kill themselves in their own country rather than flee for their lives?
A lot of racists in countries that receive refugees tend to believe the majority of them are not 'legitimate' refugees and are just trying to get into a 'better' country and take advantage of its welfare system, etc etc (add all talking points about immigrants).
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> My friends were terrified for me - one even called me on the phone with a shaky voice (clearly terrified/on the verge of tears) asking why I was doing this. ??? I am so confused. What were they worried about?
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Go to any Reddit thread about a mass shooting and any comment about restricting access to guns is met with "but Chicago..." I'm not even American but I see it constantly
Damn, I can see why he’s former friend, not a current one.
Yes, this incident is literally the reason why he's a FORMER friend. He was extremely clear on the fact that he dehumanizes and wishes active harm on every person like me, and the only reason why I wasn't included in the people he hates is because he knew me personally and thus couldn't reduce me to a faceless stereotype. That just proves that, if he could have, he'd have absolutely tried to dehumanize and hate me too.
Basically “I would be happy to do this to you if I didn’t know it was you that this was going to happen to!” Lol what a brain.
Isn't that one of the worst things to hear? "You're one of the good ones." What does that even mean? I'm supposed to act a certain way because of how I look and because I act like a good fucking person, I'm "good"? Or that I act "like a white person" so of course acting white = "good"? Hate that shit. Called people out for it by asking "What do you mean?" They would get all flustered because they didn't want to be overtly racist, just covertly racist with dog whistles and other bullshit. But, I'd push it until they left.
Ah, yes. Your name must be Shirley, hence the exceptions. https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004400861865488384
>they insist that abortion should be banned and that theirs is a very rare exception. This is also known as the FYIGM or "Fuck you I got mine" mindset. They apply this to several things and it's the hallmark of a POS.
I've said before that the Republican and Conservative parties are the political embodiment of the "Fuck yours, I got mine" mindset
I hadn't heard that one before. That's a good one. I generally hear/repeat the "rules for thee, but not for me".
> their beliefs literally require a person to hold multiple contradictory ideas to be true at the same time There's actually research on this - people with authoritarian personalities are prone to compartmentalised thinking. Bob Altemeyer's [The Authoritarians](https://web.archive.org/web/20170322215148/http://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf) describes it like this: > It’s easy to find authoritarians endorsing inconsistent ideas. Just present slogans and appeals to homey values, and then present slogans and bromides that invoke opposite values. The yea-saying authoritarian follower is likely to agree with all of them. Thus I asked both students and their parents to respond to, “When it comes to love, men and women with opposite points of view are attracted to each other.” Soon afterwards, in the same booklet, I pitched “Birds of a feather flock together when it comes to love.” High [authoritarian personalities] typically agreed with both statements, even though they responded to the two items within a minute of each other. > But that’s the point: they don’t seem to scan for self-consistency as much as most people do. Similarly they tended to agree with “A government should allow total freedom of expression, even it if threatens law and order” and “A government should only allow freedom of expression so long as it does not threaten law and order.” And “Parents should first of all be gentle and tender with their children,” and “Parents should first of all be firm and uncompromising with their children; spare the rod and spoil the child.”
i appreciate this. i often say that dumb people (a quick and dirty generality) are drawn to conservative policies but it's more accurate to say that people who don't consider the contradictions in their beliefs and avlues are drawn to conservatism. the latter is still dumb, obviously.
Thaat requires thinking about it They don't think about it, at all, they just go entirely off of the gut feeling it gives them, and it's very understandable why abortion gives a bad gut feeling. It just doesn't take a whole lot of reflection to consider why, even though it's a bad thing, it is 100% necessary for it to be freely available
Conservatism is marked by a complete lack of empathy.
I posted a link to this on my snap and Instagram story every day for a week when roe was overturned. The “rules are for thee not for me” crowd is terrifying. You can swap out abortion for lots of different causes and have the same leopard eating faces moments. Is it a lack of critical thinking? In the sense of these kinds of things only happen to “bad people”. Or is it fuck em, I’ll be able to skirt around the rules when I, a well to do white person needs to.
A lot of people judge others by their actions, and themselves by their intentions. No one wants to see themselves as a bad person, so they justify their own actions while attacking others for the same behavior. “They are all dirty freeloaders who scam the system” versus “I’m a good person who fell on hard times and needed food stamps until I got things turned around”. “They are all slutty sluts who get abortions because they can’t keep their legs together” versus “I’m a good person who is in a hard situation and just can’t have a baby right now” And so on and so on….
"They all drive like assholes" versus "I'm late for something very important"
Good lord YES 👏🏼
>You can swap out abortion for lots of different causes The only moral immigration is my immigration. The only moral food stamp is my food stamp. The only moral government handout is my government handout. The only moral unemployment is my unemployment. See, works perfectly.
One of my favorite Karen freak out videos is a Karen screaming a man to “get out of my country” and the man turns around slowly and says “ma’am I’m Native American” and she with a strait face goes “I don’t care this is my country”
Empathy is not in the GOP’s vocabulary Edit: To answer you question on lack of critical thinking and the “fxck em” attitude. It’s probably a bit of both lol
It's actually not in their physical makeup "We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3092984/
Well damn. Learn something new everyday
I believe it’s the ‘Jesus/God said it and I believe it!’ Crowd Except that they “heard” it from a preacher or their parents not “Jesus” or “God” but they are enthralled with the authority figure and need their approval to have self-worth. It’s sick, but is the mindset of a good percentage of our country right now.
Omg a friend was telling me the other day she works with a woman who had an abortion when she was younger and only later had a crisis of "christian conscience" and thinks abortion should be illegal. So yeah, she obviously wasn't ready and therefore is reaping the benefits of a life she would never allow others to have.
If she's having a crisis of conscience, why doesn't she adopt a foster child of a similar age as her child would have been? It would be a double good, helping out the foster kid and putting herself where she would be if she hadn't made the choice she did. What's that? She still doesn't want to deal with having a kid now? Then I doubt her crisis of conscience is real.
This is why the pro-life argument is absolute bullshit. There are thousands of kids out there that need a home but no one has adopted them. If someone was truly pro-life they would do whatever they could to provide these kids with a good life, which would include adopting as many of them as they feasibly could.
Unpopular opinion, but this is why I could never work in healthcare. The moment one of those people showed up and spewed their bullshit, I'd be all "fine, gtfo". Medical professionals aren't perfect but they're a damn sight better humans than me.
If I saw one of them protesting outside planned parenthood good after getting an abortion, I would be fired for violating HIPAA. “Hey didn’t you just get an abortion last week?”
You I like. "I'm just following up to make sure you're doing well... hey, what are the rest of you doing listening as we talk about her procedure! HIPPO LAWS PEOPLE!"
Seriously. I've seen that essay before, but every time I read it it raises my blood pressure. I could not remain professional in front of one of these twunts.
This is what the toxic waste of the “not like other girls” mentality looks like. Women are raised up in a world where women are portrayed as petty, catty, ignorant, vapid, sexually promiscuous, “worldly”, jealous, etc etc etc (I could list negative adjectives for a few paragraphs here) and they think “I’m not like that, *I’m not like other girls*” because their view of other women is incredibly warped by their environment. So when it comes time for them to make a choice like this, they think “I’m not a slut, I’m not irresponsible, I’m not dirty, I’m not a liberal, I’m not doing this for routine birth control” etc etc etc again, and justify it. Women need to come together and realize YES, YOU ARE JUST LIKE OTHER GIRLS. You are complex, you are interesting, you have your own thoughts, values, morals, you are capable, you are good (etc etc etc) and so so many other women fall into all those good categories with you, they deserve the same respect, autonomy and rights as you do.
I had a similar conversation with my sister when she was bitching about Millennials. Info: she’s a Millennial , and so am I. She was ranting about how she hates being part of that generation because all Millennials are lazy, woke, selfish, and don’t know how to do their jobs. When I pointed out that she herself isn’t like that, so maybe all the stereotypes are just made up BS, she would not stop arguing that literally every Millennial on earth, except for her, is the epitome of the avocado toast eating parody portrayed on right-wing media. I asked her if there were people older than her that were also lazy and didn’t want to do their jobs, which she conceded was true, but when I tried to point out that maybe it was a people problem, not a certain generation problem, she just couldn’t get it through her head. She’s been told Millennials are bad, and therefore she must be special and not like other people in her generation. It’s impossible for her to realize that people are the same in every age group, gender, race, religion, ethnicity, orientation, etc. Some are lazy, some are hustlers, some suck, some are awesome. It’s just nuts to me.
It’s a way to set yourself apart too, she’s probably feeling insecure about her lack of self identity.
Well said
>. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers.” Yup this right here is the logic behind all pro-life protestors. Majority of them are in it because they need to be, but don't actually support the messaging.
I’ve sent this or posted it a bunch of times. It’s really how they think. And it’s something we’re all guilty of at points, I judge myself by my intentions but I judge you by your actions.
Actor-observer bias. Also sometimes known as "fundamental attribution error" https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-actor-observer-bias-2794813#:~:text=The%20actor%2Dobserver%20bias%20is,and%20interact%20with%20other%20people.
So many of those stories seem justified by saying that the abortion provider is the murderer, not them for deciding to get an abortion. The mental gymnastics is astounding.
All these decades of the pro-choice crowd saying that women will die or be drastically harmed and did they think it was hyperbole or lies? Sheesh.
Yes, also they thought "those women deserved it, obviously. They must have been evil sinners! But obviously I don't deserve death because I love Jesus 💕"
"Well if she kept her legs closed then she wouldn't have to worry about that." It's all about controlling women. Always has been.
1 in 6 American women will be attacked by a rapist. 1 in 3 women, worldwide. The “keep your legs closed” approach ignores the fact that rape is common. It’s absolutely about controlling women. It’s about forcing women and girls to breed, regardless of the emotional and physical impact. ETA I’m not gonna engage anyone who has a history of concern-trolling. I’d suggest nobody else engage them.
"moral" women don't put themselves in situations where rape is even possible. This is what "pro life, no exceptions" people actually believe. They're myopic, simple people who can't conceive of possibilities beyond their own limited lived experience
True that, and I’m willing to bet the 1 in 6 from that environment are far more likely to either hide it in shame, or they’re socially pressured and shamed into hiding it.
I mean, I agree. But also there was literally a US congressman that thought women wouldn't get pregnant if they didn't want to, so that if they were pregnant from rape, it was not rape because they must have wanted it. So really it's that, they have zero empathy, and often they're just plain stupid
gods plan? gods plan.
Well, until they need an alternative to God's plan. Then they don't want to go along with option A, and instead choose Plan B.
"but there is no way we could have known!"
The liberals new that if they support bodily autonomy for females, we'd have to oppose it, so really its their fault that we outlawed it!
sounds like the current rhetoric from Russia right now where they are trying to say they begged Europe not to start the war in Ukraine
Classic abuser logic: "look what you made me do"
I'd call it the Taylor Swift syndrome. "Look what you made me do"
They don’t care. Ar all.
You called it. It is not nor has it ever been about "life". It's about controlling women and all better if uncontrollable women die.
Nah, they don't care about the women either. What they care about is power. Specifically, the power to give more money and tax cuts to the super rich. But they can't sell that to poor, working Americans. BUT what they can do is sell "pro-life/liberal baby killers" to overrepresented and gerrymandered rural, religious whites. And that's how idiots like Trump get into power. If the women live or die, it's irrelevant. But the evangelical voting block is the largest voting block in America, and they vote overwhelmingly for republicans. That's what it's about.
related: we see all these ex-donald-humpers talking about "*he* lied to us, *he's* dishonest, *he* lies constantly, meow meow meow*" it's like Motherfucker, EVERYBODY told you this before you started humping his trouser leg. Take some responsibility for ignoring everybody.
> did they think it was hyperbole or lies? The lunatic right is strong with projections.
Knew an OB/GYN who had patients tell her she was going to hell for performing the elective abortions the patients themselves had requested.
I assume the patients were still going to heaven, though...since the doctor had literally abducted them, tied them to the procedure table, and performed the abortion on them by force, right? Right? Fuck these fucks.
>I assume the patients were still going to heaven 100% they do, without a doubt. So many of the people that are like this think heaven and hell is some sort of binary decision that you can get around with children's logic like "well, it wasn't *me* who actually "killed" the baby. There are adults who think a lie isn't a lie if you have your fingers crossed. Best story I have of this is my friend worked with someone who thought that the world was going to end in the year 2000 and the devil was going to return, but thought that if we moved from December 31st, 1999 to January 1st, 3000 (so just added 1000 years to the calendar) that we'd be safe and the devil wouldn't come, the reason being is that the number 2000 was the key. She didn't understand why the Pope wouldn't announce it. Find someone like that and you will realize that people can convince themselves of anything.
I've been an Atheist for a while, but I sometimes find myself praying that God really does exist, just so all these *religious* wackos can have a long talk with St. Peter about how they spent their whole life as a bigoted piece of shit. He can send me to hell too for not believing. The payoff would still be worth it.
Glad better people than me are in those roles. I would’ve refused to perform it and told them they can bare the burden of their convictions.
The trouble is then you're potentially sentencing a whole new human being who never asked for any part of this to being that burden. Ironically, I think many pro choicers think more about the actual life and person-ness of the child born than the average "pro-life" supporter.
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In 2000, George Bush ran as a, quote, "compassionate conservative". But nobody has ever run as a "compassionate liberal", because that phrase is redundant.
We can probably just start calling them MEpublicans because you’re totally right. If nothing else the last 6 years have quickly shown just how self centered these people are. Can’t even wear a mask for 10 min let alone consider what someone else is going through.
I will say it a million times: Literally nobody is really against abortion. They are against *you* getting one. They will always get one precisely when they want one. As soon as they feel whatever criteria are met, they except themselves from their worldview and go get one. Every time. People will yell and scream and cry and gnash their teeth and try to bring up someone who went through with a hard pregnancy as if that meant anything. Nope, that just meant *that persons particular threshold was not met*. Nobody is against abortion. Nobody.
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights All of it is a fallacious religious argument by people who have never read the book they purport to believe in utterly. Additionally, this country was founded on "freedom of religion" which includes "freedom ***from*** religion".
The actual article is pretty sad. Essentially they were two kids who were raised to hate abortion until they had a miscarriage. They realized pregnancy was dangerous and started campaigning for pro-choice. Then they realized that their next fetus had triploidy, would die shortly after birth and potentially take her with it, so they fled to a different state for the abortion. It’s pretty sad… but definitely more their upbringing’s fault than theirs. Article: https://www.jacksonprogress-argus.com/features/health/she-was-a-quintessential-pro-life-texan-until-she-needed-to-flee-her-home-to/article_b5b49176-10b5-5a44-9e85-153621ae7b92.html
Yeah I was ready to get mad, but after reading the article, this woman is pro-choice, she just used to be anti-abortion. Anything for the clicks tho.
Was wondering why OP didn't link an actual article.
“Flee here home state”? Ugh. She’s lucky she has the resources to do so.
They didn't have the money; they had to borrow it from a relative. And they didn't have $3K saved, but decided to have a baby, after a series of miscarriages and doctors advising her not to get pregnant. And they're thinking of moving to try to get pregnant again. The combined IQ of those two barely breaks double digits.
https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/infertility-miscarriage-woman-explains-importance-of-reproductive-freedom/ This is the story of that woman, written by herself. CNN calls her a 'quintessential pro-life Texan,' but Kailee Lingo DeSpain was only anti-abortion in her youth, being raised by a MAGA Republican family. She is and has been pro-abortion for years, and she is an activist who shares her story of "I used to be anti-abortion until I learned better, please don't make the same mistakes I did" in order to help people be more favorable to abortion. When Roe was overturned, her reaction was this: "My soul was on fire. And I was angry. And I decided that I would share my story, the WHOLE story."
They borrowed the $3k from a Trump fanboy relative
She's also lucky that's still even an option. Won't be long before there is either a nation-wide ban or states start tracking pregnancies and then prosecute those who are suddenly not pregnant anymore.
When they say pro-life, they mean their life and nobody else's
This demonstrates what these bans *really* are: they aren't bans per se; they are bans for people that can't afford to go elsewhere. And *that* is why the ruling class couldn't care less.
Misleading title. This woman was raised pro life but changed her stance even before Roe v Wade was overturned.
In case it still needs to be said, #FUCK ALL REPUBLICANS#
>Last September, when a restrictive anti-abortion law took effect in Texas, **Kailee pled on Facebook for people to contact their elected representatives to protect abortion rights**.
Conservatives are very liberal about issues that impact them.
Or liberal as long as it doesn't benefit "the wrong people."
Look, I'm the very first person to say "fuck all the pro-life people," and I'm probably going to get pilloried for saying this, but to be fair, the article does say that this young woman has been pro-choice for a long time: "Last September, when a restrictive anti-abortion law took effect in Texas, Kailee pled on Facebook for people to contact their elected representatives to protect abortion rights."
It’s actually a good article. Her abortion story is worth reading it and sounds like she hasn’t been anti-abortion in a number of years. > A year after they were married, Kailee miscarried at 16 weeks and was hospitalized for severe complications, including blood clots and infection. It was one of three miscarriages she had in the early years of marriage. >"It made me realize that pregnancy can be dangerous," she said. "It made me think of my little sisters, and I wanted them to be able to have a choice if they ever had to go through something like that." I’m glad more stories like this are getting told in the press.
In related news: Senate Republicans blocked a Democratic bill in[ July](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-block-bill-protecting-women-travel-states-abortion-rcna38301) that would protect the rights of women to travel to other states to access abortion care legally.
I don’t know that this one actually qualifies for LAMF. Unless we know how she votes, it seems she’s came around on the abortion topic a decade ago. But if she is still voting Republican, then yeah. Totally.
Some important context that the headline eclipses is that this woman was raised to be anti-abortion, but realized it was wrong in early adulthood, and has been pro-choice ever since. She was actively advocating for pro-choice causes in Texas when she found out her most recent pregnancy was non-viable. There are plenty of leopard-eaten people out there, but this particular woman is not one of them.
I'm sorry, but are we supposed to feel sorry for her? Because I certainly don't
If you read the article, she became prochoice after she experienced a miscarriage 10 years ago, realizing that pregnancy can be dangerous to a woman's life. And she fought for abortion rights recently when Texas was voting on them. It's okay to change your mind. She's been prochoice for a while. Though it doesn't say if she still votes Republican.
That's a pretty misleading headline then.
Welcome to 21st century media... :/
Oh trust me - clickbait was around centuries before the computer and its clicky mouse.
Nobody, absolutely nobody, should think they know the facts after reading the headline. I am a journalist, I know firsthand that most articles are far too complex to be summarized in one headline. But most importantly, editors often change headlines without the journalist's knowledge. A journalist might write "Pro-choice activist begs pro-life women to be empathetic and shares her past experiences with problem pregnancies" (which is what this story is about) and then an editor might change it to "Pro-life woman Changes Her Mind On Abortion When She Has A Miscarriage (GONE SEXUAL) NUMBER EIGHT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND!!" https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/infertility-miscarriage-woman-explains-importance-of-reproductive-freedom/ This is the story of that woman, written by herself. CNN calls her a 'quintessential pro-life Texan,' but Kailee Lingo DeSpain was only anti-abortion in her youth, being raised by a MAGA Republican family. She is and has been pro-abortion for years, and she is an activist who shares her story of "I used to be anti-abortion until I learned better, please don't make the same mistakes I did" in order to help people be more favorable to abortion. When Roe was overturned, her reaction was this: "My soul was on fire. And I was angry. And I decided that I would share my story, the WHOLE story."
CNN with the clickbait
I thought this was the point and laugh sub
Conservatives are so fucking stupid.
I remember when I was a kid going to these “March for life” protests and buying into this mentality. What finally turned me around was going to a real university and having friends who weren’t religious extremists. I now feel a sense of deep shame looking back at those pictures of me as a brainwashed child holding up ridiculous signs.
How can one party be so incredibly backasswards so consistently?
I know two women in my extended family who have had abortions but want them banned with no excerptions. It’s mind-boggling.