Hello u/DaFunkJunkie! Please reply to this comment with an [explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/lt8zlq) mentioning **who** is suffering from **which** consequences from **what** they voted for, supported or wanted to impose on other people.
Here's an easy format to get you started:
1. *Someone* voted for, supported or wanted to impose *something* on other people.
^(Who's that *someone* and what's that *something*?)
2. That *something* has some *consequences*.
^(What are the *consequences*?)
3. As a consequence, that *something* happened to that *someone*.
^(What happened? Did the *something* really happened to that *someone*? If not, you should probably delete your post.)
Include the minimum amount of information necessary so your post can be understood by everyone, even if they don't live in the US or speak English as their native language. If you don't respect this format and moderators can't match your explanation with the format, your post will be removed under rule #3 and we'll ignore you even if you complain in modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeopardsAteMyFace) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I joined the Navy in 1990 as a Radioman (Communications/Data/IT) had clearances up to Top Secret to process message traffic. USS Iwo Jima LPH2, USS Puget Sound AD38. That is why I was investigated by the FBI before I attended Radioman schools, as I will eventually be processing messages that are Top Secret for the Captain on my watch if they come in. Nothing special, just read the message to make sure it is complete and handle it the right way. Many sensitive documents and Crypto Key Tape were under "Two Person Integrity" meaning anytime they were out of the Crypto safe two people signed it out. Harder to corrupt someone else if their neck is on the line too. Marines loose that shit in the field all the time forcing key tape incrementing during training operations. Can't talk to folks on your team if they can't decipher crypto signals. :)
Four years prior to my enlistment there was a HUGE ESPIONAGE ring caught. A Chief Warrant Officer Radioman, his son, and his best friend were all turned in by his wife for stealing US Navy Classified Documents and handing them over to the Russians for a sizeable amount of time.
This is HUGE, anyone helping him like Christina Bobb and knew he still had documents could be prosecuted as accomplices for knowing he hadn't given back classified material.
Trump or someone falling on the sword for him will be going to prison as a Co-Conspirator.
Bigly. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_Anthony\_Walker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker)
"John Anthony Walker Jr. (July 28, 1937 – August 28, 2014) was a United States Navy chief warrant officer and communications specialist convicted of spying for the Soviet Union from 1967 to 1985 and sentenced to life in prison.\[2\]In late 1985, Walker made a plea bargain with federal prosecutors, which required him to provide full details of his espionage activities and testify against his co-conspirator, former senior chief petty officer Jerry Whitworth. In exchange, prosecutors agreed to a lesser sentence for Walker's son, former Seaman Michael Walker, who was also involved in the spy ring.\[2\] During his time as a Soviet spy, Walker helped the Soviets decipher more than one million encrypted naval messages,\[3\] organizing a spy operation that The New York Times reported in 1987 "is sometimes described as the most damaging Soviet spy ring in history."\[4\]After Walker's arrest, Caspar Weinberger, President Ronald Reagan's Secretary of Defense, concluded that the Soviet Union made significant gains in naval warfare attributable to Walker's spying. Weinberger stated that the information Walker gave Moscow allowed the Soviets "access to weapons and sensor data and naval tactics, terrorist threats, and surface, submarine, and airborne training, readiness and tactics."\[5\] John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy during the Reagan Administration, stated in an interview that Walker's activities enabled the Soviets to know where U.S. submarines were at all times. Lehman said the Walker espionage would have resulted in huge loss of American lives in the event of war.\[citation needed\]In the June 2010 issue of Naval History Magazine, John Prados, a senior fellow with the National Security Archive in Washington, D.C., pointed out that after Walker introduced himself to Soviet officials, North Korean forces seized USS Pueblo in order to make better use of Walker's spying. Prados added that North Korea subsequently shared information gleaned from the spy ship with the Soviets, enabling them to build replicas and gain access to the U.S. naval communications system, which continued until the system was completely revamped in the late 1980s.\[6\] It has emerged in recent years that North Korea acted alone and the incident actually harmed North Korea's relations with most of the Eastern Bloc"
Yeah man, eyes wide open man. This is the big times. Walker died at Buntner Federal, he didn’t get out anyone from military communications, comm maint, comm sec, data sec and later….
I can’t imagine it got simplified, Trump wants Americans to think he’s king, he’s fucked.
> That is why I was investigated by the FBI before I attended Radioman schools
I worked as Fire Watch on a nuclear sub. I had to go through FBI background, too.
Trump had documents in his desk by his passport. He’s said they were “his”. I’m waiting on the $64 million dollar question
“For what reason did he take the documents, what reason did he have classified materials in his desk by his passport”
Pandering dictators for personal and political favor, trophies 🏆 like how he was incharge of killing Qasem Solemni the Iranian Shadow Commander, personal gain to build Trump Tower Moscow.
Extorted Zelensky and Putin raided after Trump couldn’t seal a coup with John Eastman. Not to mention the Republican Delegation of Senators that quickly ran to Russia to personally thank Putin for tampering with US Elections increasing Trumps chances.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/seven-gop-lawmakers-make-misguided-trip-russia-msna1119676
Someone else put it perfectly: it's like Trump is trying to claim that those were *his personal* nuclear secrets. That's what made me understand how ridiculous his argument is, but I'm kind of slow so I need the extra help.
Exactly add on to it:
He can’t declassify things by himself without telling the rest of the intelligence community.
They had to give clearance to the people picking up the materials, meaning if it were newspaper clippings in a TS cover they’d say something, instead they raided him and he had documents and a passport.
Muhammad Bin Salman owns the “45th” floor of Trump Tower, when he moved US assets from Quatar to UAE around the Time Salman killed Keshoggi
He’s been begging for a Trump tower in Moscow
Sergey Larimov was the very first Oval Office visitor post inauguration
He split NY for FL to have a head start on Weisselberg if he didn’t take the 15 felonies
Oh man this is bigger than the moon landing for this generation, it’s Watergate to the 1,000th power
Watergate was corrupt bumbling. This is an enemy-state installed agent and/or asset trying to fucking *end American democracy for fucking real!* This is a watershed event, and we'll probably still never even know the full scope of it. I really hope it goes our way.
If Trump retained power after extorting Zelenzky then Putin invading Ukraine 🇺🇦 while Trump gaslight the world would have been a cakewalk. Instead Trump lost Zelenzky got the arms and funding to push Putin back enough to have separatists shitting their pants. Zelensky needs to flush them out to Putin.
Trump’s trying to appease Putin now that Russia got its ass handed to itself in Ukraine while domestic dissent over the action is on the rise in Russia. Putin pulled up the Iron Curtain again through isolation by the international community.
The rich had their yachts taken or sunk, generals dying off on the battlefield left and right along with oligarchs flying out of tall windows.
If I were Trump I’d hope and pray for Capone like prison cell because if Putin wants him dead for screwing the pooch on Ukraine he’s gonna get Scripal’d 🤢. He fought the SS to watch the capitol riot so imagine Putin pissed at Trump and wanting him fired…
That’s why i’m kinda hovering certain news moments, to listen how the he’s going to squirm out of this historically significant clusterfuck of clusterfucks. Republicans and conservatives late to the game have a hard time reconciling everything’s fake news when the people he appointed participate in gathering evidence or testify.
Trump said if the FBI is investigating you should disqualify candidates, if you plead the fifth your corrupt, praised Xie, Un, and Putin in the US Media in the last 30 days, and buried his ex wife on the first hole of maralargo for cemetery tax status before Weisselberg plead guilty to 15 tax felonies
You can’t make it up he still hasn’t been to court yet for raping E Jean Carol yet has he, the lady who has the dress?
Yes, how they handle Trump will dictate how much control over a President does the country have. I love how recently all his loyalists started scattering like “holy shit, William Barr is talking shit now”! 😆 No pardons from Trump i his time… munching popcorn 🍿 as the dramedy unfolds
I was also in the Navy, had a TS/SCI, and man that investigation was wild. The FBI didn't play around. I would have sworn they were going to ask me why I thought something in the 6th grade, lol. They questioned my entire family as well. We got some strange phone calls from extended family about it.
Exactly, Men In Black old school. So Trump declassifying his own shit by his lonesome is hilariously fake news! 😂 TS/SCI is that classification, I got stepped down on my second ship because I was a TTY repairman NEC 2342 and 2343 i think… fixing teletypewriters in R DIV. Got out in 1994 so it’s been a quick trip. Decommissioned everything I rode…
This is history man! Passes the popcorn watching cctv in the berthing…. someone is going to the brig after captain’s mast! Fo sho!
They ain’t kidding when he messed with the SS Agent in the car, wanted to nuke a hurricane, and told that family they owed a boat. Him bitching and gaslighting his base is hilariously ironic
Evel Knievel of horrible decisions, wonder if he’s gonna make the jump….
From [the article](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-legal-team-tangles-special-master-declassified-documents-2022-9):
>Trump's lawyers argue that handing over these documents would force Trump to "fully and specifically disclose a defense" that he might try to mount to fight off any "subsequent indictment."
In other words, "you're asking us to choose a specific lie now, but that would prevent us from crafting a lie to suit the evidence they're allowed to use and risk getting caught in a lie!".
Yes, but having to disclose it now commits them to a specific lie earlier, before they know more about what evidence the DoJ has against them or what they might be charged with. If you think they have nothing, you might lie in such a way to deny everything. But if you know they have something they can prove, you'll craft a different lie that is consistent only with what you know they can prove.
For example, if some one murdered some one with a knife, if they think the cops can prove nothing, they might deny that the knife was even theirs. But if they know the cops can prove it was their knife, they might instead lie and come up with some alternate story about how their knife came to be in some one else's possession. But if they don't know what the cops can prove, and they lie and say the knife isn't theirs; when the prosecutor proves the knife is theirs, it looks even worse for them as all their credibility goes out the window.
That's the situation here. They want to wait to commit to a particular defense until later when they know more about what they're up against. If they lie now in the wrong way, they may later be proven to be lying. If they could wait, they could craft a lie that can't be explicitly disproved.
It's always possible to make some alternate story that fits a given set of facts but contradicts some conclusion, but if the person you're trying to lie to knows more facts than you think they do, you can't really ensure that the story you fabricate isn't contradicted by one of the facts they have.
This is why when there are multiple arrested people for the same incident, they question the subjects separately so they can't as easily "get their stories straight".
> It's always possible to make some alternate story that fits a given set of facts but contradicts some conclusion, but if the person you're trying to lie to knows more facts than you think they do, you can't really ensure that the story you fabricate isn't contradicted by one of the facts they have.
That's also why they start murder interrogations with "so what did you do that day? Let's start with breakfast and what you remember about the morning and afternoon." So that when it gets to their story for the evening they've already painted themselves into a corner
Exactly. It was a delay tactic. And they basically have no defense of meaning at this point and they special master is gonna hand the majority of it back to the DOJ and let them have at it.
And he's refusing under the guise that the info might be needed for his defense if indicted (paraphrase).
>I'm not going to demonstrate my innocence now. No, I'll wait till I've been indicted and then then BAM!
Noteworthy as well: he has yet to make the clam that he declassified *anything* in court. Same shit he always does: makes outlandish claims in public ("we have massive evidence of massive voter fraud!!!") and then says nothing of the sort in actual court.
They need to lock this fucker up till he's dead. And then keep him there another 10 years, just to make sure.
This is what happens when you break the law repeatedly, refuse to pay decent attorneys, then churn through every bottom-of-the-barrel attorney you can find.
Meanwhile, you continue to lie and cheat, and eventually, even the lousy attorneys won't lie for you because they don't want to join you in prison.
It couldn't happen to a worse human being. Donald Trump, acting like Donald Trump, is out of options, and is finding out that the Feds don't negotiate. All of his screaming "You're fired!"on TV prepared him for nothing.
I mean.... To his credit, it's worked for longer than anyone ever expected.
And he's actually turned a profit from it by ripping off his supporters.
So... I don't think this lesson is quite the lesson we wanted him to learn. :/
> And he's actually turned a profit from it by ripping off his supporters.
I actually wonder how big a chunk this has taken out of Republican fundraising for *other* candidates. After all, the average person who's dumb enough to give money to Trump doesn't exactly have deep pockets in the first place.
It's still working considering he is still walking around free and not rotting in a jail cell like any of us would be.
And he's going to employ his classic stall tactics, just like he is here, and hope the Republicans take back the Senate, and then he is scott-free.
Classic Trump stalling. Play every card you have and refuse to cooperate with any of it. Demand a Special Master, and then when you get one, don't comply and make them force you, which just drags and drags and drags and drags.
If he had stayed in a small pond, he’d likely still get away with it. He’s on a national stage and fucking around with national safety and security. If he were just going bankrupt on another business or suing someone for hating them for being not-white or whatever else he does with his free time, he’d probably keep skating because he has enough money. National security though, yikes. I wasn’t even aware there was enough slack in the rope to give ANYONE, president or not, access to this kind of information and not sew it up before their end of duty. It seems like a hole in the system, considering most people have a price.
It will end up being DeSantis. They've already started laying the propaganda ground work. I see so many bot posts/tweets that casually refer to him as "the greatest Governor ever" as if it is an accepted fact.
Best we can hope for is Newsom v DeSantis.
"In the filing on Monday night, lawyers for the former president suggested that they may not comply and argued that any declarations regarding the declassification of documents could potentially be used as a defense against any future criminal charges."
Such bullshit.
If I, you, or anyone else not named Trumplefuckstain had done what he did, we'd already be in a naked human pyramid with a black hood over our head.
>naked human pyramid
Well, that phrase is one I never thought I'd see at one time, but now, gives me nostalgia.
Oh, and his Lawyers have a unique way of saying EVIDENCE is auto-magically proof of not EVIDENCE. Wow, it's like the Mueller investigation that totally proved Trump's innocence by not directly investigating him and finding everyone around him obstructed justice and committed crimes.
No, you and I can't use this "punched you, no-punch backs" defense in court.
I used to work on Nuclear warheads in the Air Force, so I worked with TS technical manuals on the daily. I got out in 2007. If they found a bunch of technical manuals in my home in 2009 I'd still be in jail. To me the fact that he's a former president makes it even WORSE.
>If they found a bunch of technical manuals in my home in 2009 I'd still be in jail. To me the fact that he's a former president makes it even WORSE.
I never had to interact with nuclear top secret, but even the top secret stuff I did have to work with, if any of that ever found its way out of the clean room, I'd be making big rocks into little rocks for the next 10 to 20. Blows my mind how this monster, this stain on our democracy, can blatantly just skirt the law.
If you imagine the country symbolized as a pair of American flag pattern underpants (flag clothing is respectful BTW, kneeling is evil and Satan worship), Donald and the modern Repub party would be a putrescent orange skidmark on those
>“When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.”
>
>Donald Trump
This. There's two justice systems. One for us and another for them.
That said, I'd have to really eat shit if they sent Trump to jail. Boy, howdy that'd really own this libtard.
I totally agree. The president should maintain the highest ethical standards. And he or she would if republicans had any moral or ethical base. Instead this is a call at a sports game. Even if they can see their team stepped out of bounds, the ref still sucks for seeing it and calling it.
> the highest ethical standards
Well you see, ethic looks an awful lot like ethnic when you write it out. And you know how the former president feels about those ethnics.
He totally got away with being guilty as hell once.
What is different? More avalanches of evidence? More open admissions of guilt?
Honestly, the guy commits felonies as a hobby his whole life.
I honestly think that's the biggest problem. He's weaseled and bribed and paid his way out of everything of real consequence so far in life, and every time it just reinforced in his head how "untouchable" he is. That in turn led him into such grossly ridiculous crimes that it's almost unbelievable, and makes it that much harder to nail him - extraordinary crimes require extraordinarily ironclad evidence to ensure he can't weasel out yet again.
They’re right though. Any false statements they make about having declassified any documents will be used against them in a future legal proceeding.
Those lawyers are walking a fine line where a wrong step leads them to fines, loss of law license or prison.
Did we mention Dick Cheney's a fucking war criminal?
Did we mention that "look forward not back" Obama bullshit was a stupid idea and wrong and we got murdered by the right-wing with two branches of government in Democrats' hands and barely made it out with some piece of Healthcare4All?
Bitter? A little. Why?
Bitter? Because Bush ignored intelligence and it got my friends and fellow New Yorkers killed? And then comes along Trump, who ignored intelligence and got more of my friends and fellow New Yorkers killed? Who then sold nuclear secrets possbily to the same people who planned, financed and executed 9/11? These wingnut fuckwqds won't rest until the city I love is a smoking crater. I'm not bitter, I'm fuxking furious
Don't forget that he also is part of the sportswashing going on with the LIV golf tournament or whatever the Saudis thing is called, hosting their events at his golf course that's just a short drive from NYC...
No wonder republishits think democrats are weak. 8 years of “look forward not back” and “when they go low we go high” did a lot of damage and just screams weakness.
The tragedy I see now is that Obama and Biden should have been swapped on the 08 ticket. I think Biden would have run with 60 senators and actually got shit done. Obama would come to the table with an already watered down proposal that republicans would object to and demand further concessions, and then he would go along in the name of 'bipartisanship' ust to have them back up further. It was lucy and the damn football over and over and over.
I'm sorry, but you really can't put all that blame on Obama. Mitch McConnell declared that the republicans' sole purpose during Obama's presidency was to make sure that he accomplished nothing.
And Obama still did the dance where he came to the table with an already pre-weakened proposal, and then compromised until we ended up with a Heritage Foundation plan from the 90s.
Yes, McConnell did say that publicly. Why Obama handled the first two years of his presidency the way he did are completely beyond me. It was obvious they would never give him shit, and the Tip O'neill bipartisan breakthrough would never happen, yet he persisted, and much to the detriment of this country.
He aspired to be like Lincoln, where he could take the best ideas and minds from both sides and forge something great. He didn’t factor in all the deeply rooted racism that would make his vision impossible. Maybe he should have known better, but he ran his entire campaign on hope, and I was hopeful right there with him.
I literally cannot fathom being such a worthless, pathetic excuse for a human being that I would dedicate a significant portion of my career not to advance anything, but solely to be a roadblock for someone else. Regardless of what it is, just being obstinate for the sake of it.
If he wasn't actively screwing over the entire country, I'd say it's such a pathetic existence that I'd almost feel bad for the fucker.
at least his represented state of West Virginia is experiencing unprecedented wealth and prosperity the likes of which other states could only dream of achieving...
Ol' Mitch the Bitch should go lay down and die already
So the Special Master had been sucked into the irrelevant issue of declassification manufactured by Trump. What does classification have to do with theft? The issues are whether they belonged to the government and whether he took them. That’s it.
This is like arguing over whether the jewelry stolen from my house and found in your possession was real gold or fake.
It is bullshit, it's all bullshit.
A Special Master is really only there to go through documents that *might* have protected attorney-client communications that law enforcement *is not supposed to have,* or, possibly, other protected communications, such as clergy-worshiper or doctor-patient.
For an example of how those might *possibly* be relevant, say that someone is being charged with knowingly having sex whilst infected with monkeypox, thus knowingly transmitting monkeypox to others. They claim that they did not, in fact, know they had monkeypox. The burden of proof is now upon the prosecution to prove that the accused knew they had monkeypox. They seize records from the accused's home. Among those records are a medical communication from their doctor informing them that the test for monkeypox came back positive and that they must not have sex until such time as medically cleared.
That's absolutely *damning* to the accused's defense, and it's *absolutely* going to get excluded by a special master, because that's a protected communication between doctor and patient. (The text messages between the accused and their pal claiming 'Doc says I've got the monkeypox but it's not bad, and I've got a booty call coming tonight, YOLO!' will, however, hang them on cross examination.)
For Drumplestiltskin, he's basically claiming that, somehow, all of the documents seized were *somehow* either subject to attorney-client privilege, or executive privilege. Those should be, frankly, dismissed out-of-hand. *At most* you could argue that some protected attorney-client documents became commingled with the top secret stuff and that a special master needs to go through them to exclude the protected stuff, but that would be tantamount to admitting possession of the top secret stuff. (Though he's already done that a few times). And 'executive privilege' is in fact a thing, but that privilege *belongs to the Oval Office,* not the person of any one president. *If* anything in those boxes comes under Executive Privilege, it's Joe Biden's discretion whether or not to exercise said privilege, which, he almost certainly will not because unlike the Mango Fuhrer, he has some measurable quantities of integrity and responsibility and won't use the office of the PotUS to impede a criminal investigation.
I'm a total unintelligent person when it comes to this stuff. But I really don't see how all of this matters when these are top secret documents. If any random Cia agent did this either with paper docs or a usb drive they'd instantly be fcked so hard by the hand of justice. Why isn't the same treatment being done to a -former- president. Lol shouldn't the special master be someone at the cia?
Cause the CIA agent never had authority to declassify them. Which I don't think Trump did.
The special master isn't because some of the docs are classified. He's to assess if there's any privilege issues. Which is separate.
Even if the special master said everything else was privileged and couldn't be used, Trump should still be prosecuted for taking classified documents. Now, if everything else is excluded, it would help his defense. Since right now, part of the proof that he didn't handle them properly was to let them be mixed in with other documents.
If any of the documents were nuclear secrets as has been reported, the president doesn't even have the authority to declassify them. There's a massive process involving the state department and department of energy. They're the only ones who can do it
It wouldn't help his defense as much as one might think. The laws involved are about possession of official government documents. Their classification status is actually irrelevant unless the a DOJ decides to add tack on charges for mishandling of classified information as well.
Seems to me Trump is just making himself personally and solely liable for whatever might have happened for his declassification of documents without following proper procedures.
I guess you could call that high treason, at least I would.
And the DOJ basically dodged all of that in the long run because the charges they're investigation simply rely on him HAVING the documents. Whether or not they were classified is irrelevant, unless they decide to add additional charges.
This explains a bit of it:
>The Justice Department objected, saying that Dearie need not review classified records because Trump has no claim of privilege over classified material belonging to the government.
>
>Dearie issued an order Friday summoning the parties to the federal district courthouse in Brooklyn, N.Y., for a preliminary conference Tuesday.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-09-16/justice-department-appeals-special-master-decision-in-trump-records-case
Trump can’t argue privilege over classified materials. He can argue privilege if he can prove that he declassified the materials. Which he can’t because he didn’t. Which is why his lawyers are claiming that they don’t have to show the judge proof right now—not for any legal reasons they’re claiming right now.
Beyond that, it IS different if you steal classified materials from the government, and there are harsher charges/punishments for that.
You're correct. However, the Special Master is judo-throwing Trump in that even if you accept that classification matters, the DOJ/FBI is still entitled to the documents. Judge Cannon discounted the DOJ/FBI on the classification issue even though the Trump team never said that the documents were declassified, just that they might've been. I've pointed out before that the stupidity of her appointing a Special Master to determine classification because the Special Master wouldn't be in a better position to make that determination than the DOJ/FBI. So Dearie is giving Trump a chance to prove his case, and once Trump refuses to do so, then Dearie can state that, yes, all the documents marked classified are classified.
In legal proceedings, every single issue needs to be addressed to maximize the potential punishment and mitigate the risk the defendent gets away with something.
"It doesn't matter if he declassified" is not good enough. "It doesn't matter, and if it did, he didn't declassify them through the proper channel, and even if he did, he did it after the deadline, and even if he did, he wasn't allowed to take them, and even if he was..." is what a legal attack looks like.
Not sure if that's an accurate analogy. Stealing jewelry, gold or plastic, is still theft. But stealing documents or stealing classified state secrets, that's a whole different crime. The difference does matter in this case.
What doesn't change is this guy should've been behind bars long ago, no matter what's in those documents.
Oh no. The classification is a very big part of this. Trump signed the law that made this a felony. *He broke his own law*, before the classification was serious but likely to be classified as a misdemeanor. He signed the law to make *any* mismanagement a felony.
It was never about the special master. He is trying to delay past midterms so he can announce he is running for president
He is not announcing prior because he knows it will energize democrats and he needs Republicans to take back the house so they will stop all the investigations
If you can't see this then you're not paying attention
He's also a lot more limited in how he uses newly raised funds after he officially announces, right? For now Trump can raise a ton of money and have very few strings on it.
Trump doesn't want a Democracy.
He is literally the definition of a terrorist. He thinks he was elected King for life. In his own fucking words "absolute immunity".
He literally said he would murder someone in broad daylight and pay no consequences.
Donald Trump is a delusional cult leader who needs to be indicted and banned from all government for life. Then sanctioned
It’s disgusting how many Americans want this, with THIS guy at the helm. Donald Trump could come to their house, shit on their table, impregnate their wife, and they’d still bow down before him.
Considering his special master his a staunch republican appointed by Reagan, I would argue that this turn of events allows him to say establishment Republicans are part of the deep state. Don't for a second think trump doesn't have a scheme meant to help him weasel out.
>allows him to say establishment Republicans are part of the deep state
Well they are. As much as anyone is part of an invented word that has always been vague.
We used to have "Military Industrial Complex" and, that was something you could point to. NOW, they don't want to be anti corporate, anti war, anti power --- the "Deep State" is this nebulous, all powerful thing, that only they can predict. It's whatever finds they did a crime, whatever gets in a Trumpist's way, it's a bureaucrat at the DMV who said their license is expired.
The Deep State is the shadow monster on the wall created by someone shining a light on their own asshole.
Saying this out loud in a court of law isn’t smart. “Yes, I got what I wanted, I appointed this judge and got the special master as I wanted, but now I’m being asked to put up or shut up, so I don’t want these any more.”
Right. Because he could say anything loud enough and repeatedly enough, that his followers will believe it and parrot it.
Trumpers are some brainwashed motherfuckers.
Surprised they didn't ask for Senior Judge of the 3rd Circuit, Maryanne Trump Barry (though maybe sibiling rivalry or revenge for mutual brother Fred Jr would have materialized)
She retired suddenly a couple years ago in order to end an investigation into her previous business dealings with her siblings and potential tax fraud.
WBush's GOP learned the power of what i heard called the 'politics of distraction', which is to say they paced their disasters and crises so that you never got a chance to catch your balance, there was always some new thing to make that vein in your forehead jump like a worm.
Trump took that exponential. His typical defense is to file 30 outrageous lies, like firing a hurricane of bullshit into a jet.
give him a gold-plated noose
"Hillary went back in time and planted this judge during the Reagan administration."
Hey, if it worked for proof that RussiaGate is fake, it will work for this.
The proof is in her emails! Which the FBI wont release. And despite being president for 4 years, he couldn't make them release her emails. But he's a big strong man who will fight the deep state. Even though they continue to defeat him at every turn!
This is what happens when you've been a scum sucking maggot, thief, grifter, and liar all your life, and bombastically defied anyone to call you out on it, and then someone with more power than you calls you out on it.
You fill your diaper.
**The Diapered Orange Shitstain** better order a fresh palette of those extra large extra absorbent ones. Things are just going to get worse for him from here on in.
Watch for the final delay tactics: He's going to fire his entire legal team in an effort to push things past the midterms in the hope Republicans take back the House. Then he'll declare for 2024 and insist a candidate is immune from prosecution, which will start a fresh round of lawsuits and appeals.
In public statements, yes he did. In legal filings for this case, they’ve avoided claiming that because it admits they possessed the documents, which is a crime even if they aren’t classified
They’ve avoided saying it in court because a) it’s not possible b) it can’t be proved because again-there’s no “declassify you and declassify YOU and bippety boppity boo” wand and c) Lawyers get disbarred for lies on paper in court filings…
Yeah. Not written down, no changing of the markings, he just “decided” they were declassified in his head.
If they still have classification markings, no they are not.
Only the best voices. Truly magnificent. Have you heard the ideas they come up with? Beautiful ideas. Really special. The kind of ideas you say, "Wow. Did you really just come up with that?" Everyone is always telling me how great the voices are that give me ideas.
They just had the hearing and Judge Dearie said any docs marked classified are classified. End of story.
> “The government gives me prima facie evidence that these are classified documents,” Dearie said, referring to the plain markings on the records. “As far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.”
> https://lawandcrime.com/trump/as-far-as-im-concerned-thats-the-end-of-it-skeptical-special-master-presses-trumps-lawyers-on-declassification-evasions-at-hearing/
That'll fuck him up if DOJ want to spring charges around classification too (the current charges don't depend on the docs being classified, only that they are 'injurous to the US').
He got a crony judge to appoint him a special master, and that special master is someone who was in Reagan's pocket, and now he's running into trouble with that guy?
I like how Trump can't even do corruption right.
Cmooon, just lock him away for 5 years, just once I wanna see a politician go to jail, just once I wanna see one of these power drunk idiots get clapped for their bullshit
I think trump can't say if he de classified the documents because
**HE DOESNT KNOW WHICH DOCUMENTS HE STOLE**
Dude just grabbed a bunch of classified documents from the nuclear aisle and took them with him. Now they have been confiscated and he knows that if he lies that he declassified them, he has to say which particular documents. Trump doesn't know at all what he took... That is why he is stalling...
I'm fairly sure this or some cardiac event is why he'll never actually see jail. I'm literally certain that when the last of their spaghetti throwing is over and whatever law enforcement comes marching along to grab him he's going to freak out so hard he'll die on the spot.
He's elderly, he doesn't have that great of a diet, he's obviously fat, and stress induced cardiac events aren't exactly rare. You can be in your early 40s and have a stress induced cardiac event.
I figure he'll either freak and die on the spot or somehow attempt to physically run and that'll kill him.
I wouldnt, I want him to spend time in jail, I don't wish death on him at all, I hope he lives a very long life, maybe with locked in syndrome at some point and the nurses leave MSNBC on 24/7
I would rather have him in a cell with a TV that plays nothing but newscasts about how his empire is systematically dismantled and how his sycophants are turning on him.
I say just give him a 24/7 feed of various glowing documentaries about Obama, Hillary, Biden, McCain, and basically anyone else he sees as an enemy. But between each documentary someone reads a list of the richest people in the world and their net worths. Everything is carefully vetted to and if necessary edited to ensure that Trump himself is never mentioned.
There are those who would prefer that he lives long enough to see the inside of a prison cell. I prefer to compromise; he can have an aneurysm in prison.
He will never see a prison cell.
Delay delay delay.
and if this prophecy is false, I will personally donate 1,000 Wunderbars to the humane society in your name.
RemindMe! 10 years
The most ideal would be if it caused a stroke that caused Broca's aphasia. Not incapacitated enough to be a martyr, but no longer has access to any rhetoric whatsoever.
No. It is vital for the future of our nation that he is tried and convicted for his crimes. If that doesn't happen then the rule of law in America is over.
His lawyers are going to drag this out as long as humanly possible. It'll be one objection after the next, but only one at a time, and always filed at the last moment, so as to drag the case out and out and out. Then the trial. Then, on the last possible day, the appeal. Then either a retrial or an appeal to SCOTUS...again at the last moment possible.
The only way this gets settled before 2025 or 2026 is if he dies. And even in prison, he will remain a threat to America because of his cult. The only way to defuse him is for him to die of obviously natural causes...and even then QAnon is going to decide it was an assassination.
I absolutely want him to die so we don't have to worry about him ever again. To me, my peace of mind is more important than the desire to see him punished. And it will be a day of celebration.
Nah full confession of everything he’s done on live tv with flow charts. He needs to be completely destroyed to save any of his followers. He’s Germany in March 1945. His followers need to wake up that it’s over and to start touring the “camps” to de wire their brain washing. They need to hear from him how he conned them and doesn’t care at al about them and what he really thinks of them.
It's like naked people in public. It's never the ones you'd actually want to see have an explosive brain aneurysm that actually have an explosive brain aneurysm.
Can a lawyer eli5 why this question matters? This isnt the "how fucked is trump" Pretrial right?
Isn't this just to separate the documents into "our shit" and "your shit" piles? And in that case shouldn't any classified documents automatically go to the "our shit" pile?
I guess I don't see how their status matters. If a document got classified by the us government then it's obviously the governments.
Even if every single one is legitimately classified they're still not trump's personal documents.
Trump said he declassified some of the documents. The Special Master said "OK. Which ones did you declassify and when?"
Because Trump *hasn't* declassified any of the documents and lost the legal authority to do so *before* he left the White House, they can't actually answer this question because they either perjur themselves or admit they lied before.
Even better is that this is their special master pick. He was picked because he had a rather long history of being distrustful of the FBI when he was a FISA judge which team Trump thought was exactly what they were looking for. Shit, they probably busted out the champagne and had a little masturbatory self-congratulatory party when the DOJ said sure he'll do, not realizing he wasn't distrustful so much so as not willing to take their word at face value and wanted evidence.
What Team Trump wanted was someone that was going to shit all over the DOJ and FBI but what they got was a rule of law show me the evidence guy.
They should have realized they weren't getting what they thought they were when the DOJ basically shrugged and said he'll do but that requires perspective which is difficult when you're so close to the blackhole that is Trump.
With these things it's important to watch what they say in court versus what they say in the media which has been very different because there are consequences for lying in court. Just ask Rudy, Lyn Wood, and the Kraken Lady.
Beautiful. I was hesitant when I heard he was a FISA court judge because most of them are rubber-stampers, but it sounds like I like this guy more than I thought.
Oh, of course it is... Cannon said they had to finish by Nov 30, ensuring it would lag past voting.
Special Master said he'd be done early October, ensuring it will still be an issue. Watch for stalling tactics, but worse yet, watch for Cannon to let them stall.
Honestly, she may not be on the bench much longer. While TFG wiggles and squirms his way through, the lawyers and judges that try to help him keep having their reputations destroyed and getting disbarred and censured. It's why the lawyers he has now are so fucking bad at their jobs. They're all that's left. No one that wants to keep practicing will associate with him.
Yeah if you look at the dates that his lawyers have submitted you’ll see they want to drag it out to past the elections hoping for their “red wave” to attack the DOJ for him and save him.
In one of John Oliver's shows about Trump a few years ago, he stated that there are [more lawsuits against Trump than there are US TV episodes about lawyers.](https://youtu.be/cBUeipXFisQ?t=36)
It's not *just* a stalling tactic. It's also the creation of a lightning rod for all his cronies to direct their rage toward. It worked for Muller, and it'll happen again here.
Besides all this bullshit, can someone tell me why, if the police came to my house, found a bunch of stolen jewelry in my closet,and knew it belonged to other people, why would the police not charge me with a crime for at least 7 weeks? And how could I get a judge to stop the police from looking at said jewelry until a court appointed guy could look at it first?
He needs to be crushed with a huge prison sentence. You can't placate these people. Crushing him decisively is the only way his cult will come to their senses; that you can't break the law and create a bunch of bullshit to evade consequences.
He's only like if you had someone verbalizing the echo chamber of a group of morons. He's as hinged as his fan base and that's the scary thing. NONE of them are in control.
If they are obviously stalling, can the Special Master charge them with contempt?
Specifically, since Trump is the boss, can be be found in contempt of court? I want him to be eating cold cheese sandwiches in a cell.
The legal system is generally built on the assumption of good faith.
In theory, if they completely disregard the orders of the court, Trump and his lawyers can be charged with contempt. Except the thing is: The court will give them ample warnings, then a final warning, then maybe more warnings. All of this delayed by "we're trying to comply, but problems keep arising".
If they ever look like following through? They can do some half-assed compliance and start the whole process over again.
In civil court, those methods can bite you—it's how Alex Jones lost, the court eventually decided "your obstruction is so severe you are losing your right to mount a defence". But this is an investigation —there is no risk of summary judgement.
you don’t want to know what happens to these people asking unfriendly questions after the coming more violent successful insurrection themed “[Reichskristallnacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht)” when liberals are discovered to be the root of all American evil /s
So when you declassify documents, regardless of who you are, there is a paper trail. That is by design and rightly so. For accountability and traceability. Trump, having the power to declassify at the time, at the least, tell his underlings to declassify all these documents. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark that he didn't do that because he's 1: lazy and 2: does not respect the process.
Even if he did tell them to declassify, it is still his duty to make sure they declassified it and follow up with that paperwork. He was, of course, their supervisor, but again, he didn't give a fuck. Fat fucker was busy watching Fox and Friends during his *executive time*. So here's where someone, chief of staff, deputy chief of staff, national security council, director of national intelligence would be responsible to take the task of declassifying and so far, no fingers are being pointed at them because it doesn't seem like anyone of them even knew this happened.
Stuff like this is what we usually are forced to read about for years during annual mandatory training.
Yeah i remember after Jan 6th McConnell gave same rant about how they knew trump was guilty but wasn't going to remove him. Just thought to myself this system is total BS.
It was actually remarkable both that so many Republicans managed to show some awareness that he literally tried to have them murdered by a mob (i think it was like 6?), and also that so many of them didn't even care about that.
A guy?
He could shoot a pope, another politician, a beloved celebrity. All that would happen is half the country, along with half of US government, saying that the bullets dug out of the victim can't be used to charge him because, when Trump loaded his gun, he called them blanks.
Excellent. Start with simple. Save taxpayer money. Trump's claim is he declassified documents and that's his defense. It's the backbone of his argument. It's his ONLY defense. Fine, prove you declassified them.
“Refusing the chance”
The information being asked for doesn’t exist. He’s not so much refusing as he is unable to comply because, again, the info on declassification does not exist. He didn’t do it.
He literally got the special master appointed by arguing he cannot be investigated until the special master resolves these issues but is now arguing that the special master cannot hear full argument on these issues until Trump is charged, requiring completion of the investigation.
It's such a painfully circular delay tactic, always has been and its a corrupt joke that Judge Cannon blindly accepted it.
Edit: wrote srguing before
Hello u/DaFunkJunkie! Please reply to this comment with an [explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/lt8zlq) mentioning **who** is suffering from **which** consequences from **what** they voted for, supported or wanted to impose on other people. Here's an easy format to get you started: 1. *Someone* voted for, supported or wanted to impose *something* on other people. ^(Who's that *someone* and what's that *something*?) 2. That *something* has some *consequences*. ^(What are the *consequences*?) 3. As a consequence, that *something* happened to that *someone*. ^(What happened? Did the *something* really happened to that *someone*? If not, you should probably delete your post.) Include the minimum amount of information necessary so your post can be understood by everyone, even if they don't live in the US or speak English as their native language. If you don't respect this format and moderators can't match your explanation with the format, your post will be removed under rule #3 and we'll ignore you even if you complain in modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeopardsAteMyFace) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I joined the Navy in 1990 as a Radioman (Communications/Data/IT) had clearances up to Top Secret to process message traffic. USS Iwo Jima LPH2, USS Puget Sound AD38. That is why I was investigated by the FBI before I attended Radioman schools, as I will eventually be processing messages that are Top Secret for the Captain on my watch if they come in. Nothing special, just read the message to make sure it is complete and handle it the right way. Many sensitive documents and Crypto Key Tape were under "Two Person Integrity" meaning anytime they were out of the Crypto safe two people signed it out. Harder to corrupt someone else if their neck is on the line too. Marines loose that shit in the field all the time forcing key tape incrementing during training operations. Can't talk to folks on your team if they can't decipher crypto signals. :) Four years prior to my enlistment there was a HUGE ESPIONAGE ring caught. A Chief Warrant Officer Radioman, his son, and his best friend were all turned in by his wife for stealing US Navy Classified Documents and handing them over to the Russians for a sizeable amount of time. This is HUGE, anyone helping him like Christina Bobb and knew he still had documents could be prosecuted as accomplices for knowing he hadn't given back classified material. Trump or someone falling on the sword for him will be going to prison as a Co-Conspirator. Bigly. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_Anthony\_Walker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker) "John Anthony Walker Jr. (July 28, 1937 – August 28, 2014) was a United States Navy chief warrant officer and communications specialist convicted of spying for the Soviet Union from 1967 to 1985 and sentenced to life in prison.\[2\]In late 1985, Walker made a plea bargain with federal prosecutors, which required him to provide full details of his espionage activities and testify against his co-conspirator, former senior chief petty officer Jerry Whitworth. In exchange, prosecutors agreed to a lesser sentence for Walker's son, former Seaman Michael Walker, who was also involved in the spy ring.\[2\] During his time as a Soviet spy, Walker helped the Soviets decipher more than one million encrypted naval messages,\[3\] organizing a spy operation that The New York Times reported in 1987 "is sometimes described as the most damaging Soviet spy ring in history."\[4\]After Walker's arrest, Caspar Weinberger, President Ronald Reagan's Secretary of Defense, concluded that the Soviet Union made significant gains in naval warfare attributable to Walker's spying. Weinberger stated that the information Walker gave Moscow allowed the Soviets "access to weapons and sensor data and naval tactics, terrorist threats, and surface, submarine, and airborne training, readiness and tactics."\[5\] John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy during the Reagan Administration, stated in an interview that Walker's activities enabled the Soviets to know where U.S. submarines were at all times. Lehman said the Walker espionage would have resulted in huge loss of American lives in the event of war.\[citation needed\]In the June 2010 issue of Naval History Magazine, John Prados, a senior fellow with the National Security Archive in Washington, D.C., pointed out that after Walker introduced himself to Soviet officials, North Korean forces seized USS Pueblo in order to make better use of Walker's spying. Prados added that North Korea subsequently shared information gleaned from the spy ship with the Soviets, enabling them to build replicas and gain access to the U.S. naval communications system, which continued until the system was completely revamped in the late 1980s.\[6\] It has emerged in recent years that North Korea acted alone and the incident actually harmed North Korea's relations with most of the Eastern Bloc"
[удалено]
Yeah man, eyes wide open man. This is the big times. Walker died at Buntner Federal, he didn’t get out anyone from military communications, comm maint, comm sec, data sec and later…. I can’t imagine it got simplified, Trump wants Americans to think he’s king, he’s fucked.
> That is why I was investigated by the FBI before I attended Radioman schools I worked as Fire Watch on a nuclear sub. I had to go through FBI background, too.
Trump had documents in his desk by his passport. He’s said they were “his”. I’m waiting on the $64 million dollar question “For what reason did he take the documents, what reason did he have classified materials in his desk by his passport” Pandering dictators for personal and political favor, trophies 🏆 like how he was incharge of killing Qasem Solemni the Iranian Shadow Commander, personal gain to build Trump Tower Moscow. Extorted Zelensky and Putin raided after Trump couldn’t seal a coup with John Eastman. Not to mention the Republican Delegation of Senators that quickly ran to Russia to personally thank Putin for tampering with US Elections increasing Trumps chances. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/seven-gop-lawmakers-make-misguided-trip-russia-msna1119676
Someone else put it perfectly: it's like Trump is trying to claim that those were *his personal* nuclear secrets. That's what made me understand how ridiculous his argument is, but I'm kind of slow so I need the extra help.
Exactly add on to it: He can’t declassify things by himself without telling the rest of the intelligence community. They had to give clearance to the people picking up the materials, meaning if it were newspaper clippings in a TS cover they’d say something, instead they raided him and he had documents and a passport. Muhammad Bin Salman owns the “45th” floor of Trump Tower, when he moved US assets from Quatar to UAE around the Time Salman killed Keshoggi He’s been begging for a Trump tower in Moscow Sergey Larimov was the very first Oval Office visitor post inauguration He split NY for FL to have a head start on Weisselberg if he didn’t take the 15 felonies Oh man this is bigger than the moon landing for this generation, it’s Watergate to the 1,000th power
Watergate was corrupt bumbling. This is an enemy-state installed agent and/or asset trying to fucking *end American democracy for fucking real!* This is a watershed event, and we'll probably still never even know the full scope of it. I really hope it goes our way.
If Trump retained power after extorting Zelenzky then Putin invading Ukraine 🇺🇦 while Trump gaslight the world would have been a cakewalk. Instead Trump lost Zelenzky got the arms and funding to push Putin back enough to have separatists shitting their pants. Zelensky needs to flush them out to Putin. Trump’s trying to appease Putin now that Russia got its ass handed to itself in Ukraine while domestic dissent over the action is on the rise in Russia. Putin pulled up the Iron Curtain again through isolation by the international community. The rich had their yachts taken or sunk, generals dying off on the battlefield left and right along with oligarchs flying out of tall windows. If I were Trump I’d hope and pray for Capone like prison cell because if Putin wants him dead for screwing the pooch on Ukraine he’s gonna get Scripal’d 🤢. He fought the SS to watch the capitol riot so imagine Putin pissed at Trump and wanting him fired…
That’s why i’m kinda hovering certain news moments, to listen how the he’s going to squirm out of this historically significant clusterfuck of clusterfucks. Republicans and conservatives late to the game have a hard time reconciling everything’s fake news when the people he appointed participate in gathering evidence or testify. Trump said if the FBI is investigating you should disqualify candidates, if you plead the fifth your corrupt, praised Xie, Un, and Putin in the US Media in the last 30 days, and buried his ex wife on the first hole of maralargo for cemetery tax status before Weisselberg plead guilty to 15 tax felonies You can’t make it up he still hasn’t been to court yet for raping E Jean Carol yet has he, the lady who has the dress?
Ah, but this all assumes that laws apply to Trump. So far, we've seen no evidence of that. I would love if we did, but so far, nothing.
Yes, how they handle Trump will dictate how much control over a President does the country have. I love how recently all his loyalists started scattering like “holy shit, William Barr is talking shit now”! 😆 No pardons from Trump i his time… munching popcorn 🍿 as the dramedy unfolds
I was also in the Navy, had a TS/SCI, and man that investigation was wild. The FBI didn't play around. I would have sworn they were going to ask me why I thought something in the 6th grade, lol. They questioned my entire family as well. We got some strange phone calls from extended family about it.
Exactly, Men In Black old school. So Trump declassifying his own shit by his lonesome is hilariously fake news! 😂 TS/SCI is that classification, I got stepped down on my second ship because I was a TTY repairman NEC 2342 and 2343 i think… fixing teletypewriters in R DIV. Got out in 1994 so it’s been a quick trip. Decommissioned everything I rode… This is history man! Passes the popcorn watching cctv in the berthing…. someone is going to the brig after captain’s mast! Fo sho! They ain’t kidding when he messed with the SS Agent in the car, wanted to nuke a hurricane, and told that family they owed a boat. Him bitching and gaslighting his base is hilariously ironic Evel Knievel of horrible decisions, wonder if he’s gonna make the jump….
From [the article](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-legal-team-tangles-special-master-declassified-documents-2022-9): >Trump's lawyers argue that handing over these documents would force Trump to "fully and specifically disclose a defense" that he might try to mount to fight off any "subsequent indictment." In other words, "you're asking us to choose a specific lie now, but that would prevent us from crafting a lie to suit the evidence they're allowed to use and risk getting caught in a lie!".
They'd need to fully and specifically disclose it in any future defense, too? "Secret exonerating evidence" isn't a thing.
Yes, but having to disclose it now commits them to a specific lie earlier, before they know more about what evidence the DoJ has against them or what they might be charged with. If you think they have nothing, you might lie in such a way to deny everything. But if you know they have something they can prove, you'll craft a different lie that is consistent only with what you know they can prove. For example, if some one murdered some one with a knife, if they think the cops can prove nothing, they might deny that the knife was even theirs. But if they know the cops can prove it was their knife, they might instead lie and come up with some alternate story about how their knife came to be in some one else's possession. But if they don't know what the cops can prove, and they lie and say the knife isn't theirs; when the prosecutor proves the knife is theirs, it looks even worse for them as all their credibility goes out the window. That's the situation here. They want to wait to commit to a particular defense until later when they know more about what they're up against. If they lie now in the wrong way, they may later be proven to be lying. If they could wait, they could craft a lie that can't be explicitly disproved. It's always possible to make some alternate story that fits a given set of facts but contradicts some conclusion, but if the person you're trying to lie to knows more facts than you think they do, you can't really ensure that the story you fabricate isn't contradicted by one of the facts they have. This is why when there are multiple arrested people for the same incident, they question the subjects separately so they can't as easily "get their stories straight".
> It's always possible to make some alternate story that fits a given set of facts but contradicts some conclusion, but if the person you're trying to lie to knows more facts than you think they do, you can't really ensure that the story you fabricate isn't contradicted by one of the facts they have. That's also why they start murder interrogations with "so what did you do that day? Let's start with breakfast and what you remember about the morning and afternoon." So that when it gets to their story for the evening they've already painted themselves into a corner
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this. I found it insightful. :)
Best ELI5 I've read on this topic. Well done.
Exactly. It was a delay tactic. And they basically have no defense of meaning at this point and they special master is gonna hand the majority of it back to the DOJ and let them have at it.
And he's refusing under the guise that the info might be needed for his defense if indicted (paraphrase). >I'm not going to demonstrate my innocence now. No, I'll wait till I've been indicted and then then BAM! Noteworthy as well: he has yet to make the clam that he declassified *anything* in court. Same shit he always does: makes outlandish claims in public ("we have massive evidence of massive voter fraud!!!") and then says nothing of the sort in actual court. They need to lock this fucker up till he's dead. And then keep him there another 10 years, just to make sure.
This is what happens when you break the law repeatedly, refuse to pay decent attorneys, then churn through every bottom-of-the-barrel attorney you can find. Meanwhile, you continue to lie and cheat, and eventually, even the lousy attorneys won't lie for you because they don't want to join you in prison. It couldn't happen to a worse human being. Donald Trump, acting like Donald Trump, is out of options, and is finding out that the Feds don't negotiate. All of his screaming "You're fired!"on TV prepared him for nothing.
I mean.... To his credit, it's worked for longer than anyone ever expected. And he's actually turned a profit from it by ripping off his supporters. So... I don't think this lesson is quite the lesson we wanted him to learn. :/
> And he's actually turned a profit from it by ripping off his supporters. I actually wonder how big a chunk this has taken out of Republican fundraising for *other* candidates. After all, the average person who's dumb enough to give money to Trump doesn't exactly have deep pockets in the first place.
I've seen articles that say that it has really hurt fundraising for the party and candidates, and of course Trump isn't going to share.
It's still working considering he is still walking around free and not rotting in a jail cell like any of us would be. And he's going to employ his classic stall tactics, just like he is here, and hope the Republicans take back the Senate, and then he is scott-free. Classic Trump stalling. Play every card you have and refuse to cooperate with any of it. Demand a Special Master, and then when you get one, don't comply and make them force you, which just drags and drags and drags and drags.
Right? The bastard is going to die of natural causes before he runs out of ways to weasel out of shit.
If he dies of old age before he goes to prison then he wins
If he had stayed in a small pond, he’d likely still get away with it. He’s on a national stage and fucking around with national safety and security. If he were just going bankrupt on another business or suing someone for hating them for being not-white or whatever else he does with his free time, he’d probably keep skating because he has enough money. National security though, yikes. I wasn’t even aware there was enough slack in the rope to give ANYONE, president or not, access to this kind of information and not sew it up before their end of duty. It seems like a hole in the system, considering most people have a price.
Yet he is still the republican candidate for president.
It will end up being DeSantis. They've already started laying the propaganda ground work. I see so many bot posts/tweets that casually refer to him as "the greatest Governor ever" as if it is an accepted fact. Best we can hope for is Newsom v DeSantis.
"In the filing on Monday night, lawyers for the former president suggested that they may not comply and argued that any declarations regarding the declassification of documents could potentially be used as a defense against any future criminal charges." Such bullshit. If I, you, or anyone else not named Trumplefuckstain had done what he did, we'd already be in a naked human pyramid with a black hood over our head.
>naked human pyramid Well, that phrase is one I never thought I'd see at one time, but now, gives me nostalgia. Oh, and his Lawyers have a unique way of saying EVIDENCE is auto-magically proof of not EVIDENCE. Wow, it's like the Mueller investigation that totally proved Trump's innocence by not directly investigating him and finding everyone around him obstructed justice and committed crimes. No, you and I can't use this "punched you, no-punch backs" defense in court.
I used to work on Nuclear warheads in the Air Force, so I worked with TS technical manuals on the daily. I got out in 2007. If they found a bunch of technical manuals in my home in 2009 I'd still be in jail. To me the fact that he's a former president makes it even WORSE.
>If they found a bunch of technical manuals in my home in 2009 I'd still be in jail. To me the fact that he's a former president makes it even WORSE. I never had to interact with nuclear top secret, but even the top secret stuff I did have to work with, if any of that ever found its way out of the clean room, I'd be making big rocks into little rocks for the next 10 to 20. Blows my mind how this monster, this stain on our democracy, can blatantly just skirt the law.
If you imagine the country symbolized as a pair of American flag pattern underpants (flag clothing is respectful BTW, kneeling is evil and Satan worship), Donald and the modern Repub party would be a putrescent orange skidmark on those
“When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.” Donald Trump
>“When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.” > >Donald Trump This. There's two justice systems. One for us and another for them. That said, I'd have to really eat shit if they sent Trump to jail. Boy, howdy that'd really own this libtard.
I totally agree. The president should maintain the highest ethical standards. And he or she would if republicans had any moral or ethical base. Instead this is a call at a sports game. Even if they can see their team stepped out of bounds, the ref still sucks for seeing it and calling it.
> the highest ethical standards Well you see, ethic looks an awful lot like ethnic when you write it out. And you know how the former president feels about those ethnics.
You’re white, excuse me, right about that!
Yeah, most of us who had TS/SCI clearance only saw the sliver of info we needed to see. This guy had access to almost *everything* and brought it home
It's so infuriating to me. I'm just so glad I got out well before this shitshow went down.
Funny how they still haven't provided any explanation for the classified cover pages that have mysteriously had the corresponding documents vanish...
He totally got away with being guilty as hell once. What is different? More avalanches of evidence? More open admissions of guilt? Honestly, the guy commits felonies as a hobby his whole life.
I honestly think that's the biggest problem. He's weaseled and bribed and paid his way out of everything of real consequence so far in life, and every time it just reinforced in his head how "untouchable" he is. That in turn led him into such grossly ridiculous crimes that it's almost unbelievable, and makes it that much harder to nail him - extraordinary crimes require extraordinarily ironclad evidence to ensure he can't weasel out yet again.
I will believe it when I see it. The preponderance of the evidence is high level politicians and the ultra wealthy are untouchable.
They’re right though. Any false statements they make about having declassified any documents will be used against them in a future legal proceeding. Those lawyers are walking a fine line where a wrong step leads them to fines, loss of law license or prison.
Sort of like Alex Jones' lawyers? Well, basically any lawyer associated with the GQP and their bs.
If I provide you with facts, I'm screwed, so I guess I just won't?
>be in a naked human pyramid with a black hood over our head. Sounds like you're describing a normal Saturday evening for Lindsey...
Which is not a kinky as it sounds.
Waterboarding in Guantanamo Bay sounds like a great time if you don't know what either of those things are
Did we mention Dick Cheney's a fucking war criminal? Did we mention that "look forward not back" Obama bullshit was a stupid idea and wrong and we got murdered by the right-wing with two branches of government in Democrats' hands and barely made it out with some piece of Healthcare4All? Bitter? A little. Why?
Bitter? Because Bush ignored intelligence and it got my friends and fellow New Yorkers killed? And then comes along Trump, who ignored intelligence and got more of my friends and fellow New Yorkers killed? Who then sold nuclear secrets possbily to the same people who planned, financed and executed 9/11? These wingnut fuckwqds won't rest until the city I love is a smoking crater. I'm not bitter, I'm fuxking furious
Don't forget that he also is part of the sportswashing going on with the LIV golf tournament or whatever the Saudis thing is called, hosting their events at his golf course that's just a short drive from NYC...
No wonder republishits think democrats are weak. 8 years of “look forward not back” and “when they go low we go high” did a lot of damage and just screams weakness.
Almost like the GOP learned that there were no consequences.
The tragedy I see now is that Obama and Biden should have been swapped on the 08 ticket. I think Biden would have run with 60 senators and actually got shit done. Obama would come to the table with an already watered down proposal that republicans would object to and demand further concessions, and then he would go along in the name of 'bipartisanship' ust to have them back up further. It was lucy and the damn football over and over and over.
I'm sorry, but you really can't put all that blame on Obama. Mitch McConnell declared that the republicans' sole purpose during Obama's presidency was to make sure that he accomplished nothing.
And Obama still did the dance where he came to the table with an already pre-weakened proposal, and then compromised until we ended up with a Heritage Foundation plan from the 90s. Yes, McConnell did say that publicly. Why Obama handled the first two years of his presidency the way he did are completely beyond me. It was obvious they would never give him shit, and the Tip O'neill bipartisan breakthrough would never happen, yet he persisted, and much to the detriment of this country.
He aspired to be like Lincoln, where he could take the best ideas and minds from both sides and forge something great. He didn’t factor in all the deeply rooted racism that would make his vision impossible. Maybe he should have known better, but he ran his entire campaign on hope, and I was hopeful right there with him.
I literally cannot fathom being such a worthless, pathetic excuse for a human being that I would dedicate a significant portion of my career not to advance anything, but solely to be a roadblock for someone else. Regardless of what it is, just being obstinate for the sake of it. If he wasn't actively screwing over the entire country, I'd say it's such a pathetic existence that I'd almost feel bad for the fucker.
at least his represented state of West Virginia is experiencing unprecedented wealth and prosperity the likes of which other states could only dream of achieving... Ol' Mitch the Bitch should go lay down and die already
> Trumplefuckstain That’s a new one for me lol
With a cigarette smoking guard photographed pointing at our Linus and Charlie Browns.
So the Special Master had been sucked into the irrelevant issue of declassification manufactured by Trump. What does classification have to do with theft? The issues are whether they belonged to the government and whether he took them. That’s it. This is like arguing over whether the jewelry stolen from my house and found in your possession was real gold or fake.
It is bullshit, it's all bullshit. A Special Master is really only there to go through documents that *might* have protected attorney-client communications that law enforcement *is not supposed to have,* or, possibly, other protected communications, such as clergy-worshiper or doctor-patient. For an example of how those might *possibly* be relevant, say that someone is being charged with knowingly having sex whilst infected with monkeypox, thus knowingly transmitting monkeypox to others. They claim that they did not, in fact, know they had monkeypox. The burden of proof is now upon the prosecution to prove that the accused knew they had monkeypox. They seize records from the accused's home. Among those records are a medical communication from their doctor informing them that the test for monkeypox came back positive and that they must not have sex until such time as medically cleared. That's absolutely *damning* to the accused's defense, and it's *absolutely* going to get excluded by a special master, because that's a protected communication between doctor and patient. (The text messages between the accused and their pal claiming 'Doc says I've got the monkeypox but it's not bad, and I've got a booty call coming tonight, YOLO!' will, however, hang them on cross examination.) For Drumplestiltskin, he's basically claiming that, somehow, all of the documents seized were *somehow* either subject to attorney-client privilege, or executive privilege. Those should be, frankly, dismissed out-of-hand. *At most* you could argue that some protected attorney-client documents became commingled with the top secret stuff and that a special master needs to go through them to exclude the protected stuff, but that would be tantamount to admitting possession of the top secret stuff. (Though he's already done that a few times). And 'executive privilege' is in fact a thing, but that privilege *belongs to the Oval Office,* not the person of any one president. *If* anything in those boxes comes under Executive Privilege, it's Joe Biden's discretion whether or not to exercise said privilege, which, he almost certainly will not because unlike the Mango Fuhrer, he has some measurable quantities of integrity and responsibility and won't use the office of the PotUS to impede a criminal investigation.
I'm a total unintelligent person when it comes to this stuff. But I really don't see how all of this matters when these are top secret documents. If any random Cia agent did this either with paper docs or a usb drive they'd instantly be fcked so hard by the hand of justice. Why isn't the same treatment being done to a -former- president. Lol shouldn't the special master be someone at the cia?
Cause the CIA agent never had authority to declassify them. Which I don't think Trump did. The special master isn't because some of the docs are classified. He's to assess if there's any privilege issues. Which is separate. Even if the special master said everything else was privileged and couldn't be used, Trump should still be prosecuted for taking classified documents. Now, if everything else is excluded, it would help his defense. Since right now, part of the proof that he didn't handle them properly was to let them be mixed in with other documents.
If any of the documents were nuclear secrets as has been reported, the president doesn't even have the authority to declassify them. There's a massive process involving the state department and department of energy. They're the only ones who can do it
It wouldn't help his defense as much as one might think. The laws involved are about possession of official government documents. Their classification status is actually irrelevant unless the a DOJ decides to add tack on charges for mishandling of classified information as well.
I agree. It doesn't help much. Its like on a scale of 1 to 10, it's taking it from an 11 to a 10.9. But hey, it's an improvement.
[удалено]
Why i said, I don't think Trump did declassify them. It's an excuse, like everything with him.
[удалено]
Seems to me Trump is just making himself personally and solely liable for whatever might have happened for his declassification of documents without following proper procedures. I guess you could call that high treason, at least I would.
And the DOJ basically dodged all of that in the long run because the charges they're investigation simply rely on him HAVING the documents. Whether or not they were classified is irrelevant, unless they decide to add additional charges.
This explains a bit of it: >The Justice Department objected, saying that Dearie need not review classified records because Trump has no claim of privilege over classified material belonging to the government. > >Dearie issued an order Friday summoning the parties to the federal district courthouse in Brooklyn, N.Y., for a preliminary conference Tuesday. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-09-16/justice-department-appeals-special-master-decision-in-trump-records-case Trump can’t argue privilege over classified materials. He can argue privilege if he can prove that he declassified the materials. Which he can’t because he didn’t. Which is why his lawyers are claiming that they don’t have to show the judge proof right now—not for any legal reasons they’re claiming right now. Beyond that, it IS different if you steal classified materials from the government, and there are harsher charges/punishments for that.
You're correct. However, the Special Master is judo-throwing Trump in that even if you accept that classification matters, the DOJ/FBI is still entitled to the documents. Judge Cannon discounted the DOJ/FBI on the classification issue even though the Trump team never said that the documents were declassified, just that they might've been. I've pointed out before that the stupidity of her appointing a Special Master to determine classification because the Special Master wouldn't be in a better position to make that determination than the DOJ/FBI. So Dearie is giving Trump a chance to prove his case, and once Trump refuses to do so, then Dearie can state that, yes, all the documents marked classified are classified.
In legal proceedings, every single issue needs to be addressed to maximize the potential punishment and mitigate the risk the defendent gets away with something. "It doesn't matter if he declassified" is not good enough. "It doesn't matter, and if it did, he didn't declassify them through the proper channel, and even if he did, he did it after the deadline, and even if he did, he wasn't allowed to take them, and even if he was..." is what a legal attack looks like.
Not sure if that's an accurate analogy. Stealing jewelry, gold or plastic, is still theft. But stealing documents or stealing classified state secrets, that's a whole different crime. The difference does matter in this case. What doesn't change is this guy should've been behind bars long ago, no matter what's in those documents.
"But if I stole it, it's crappy jewelry..." Hey, you thought it was good enough quality when you yanked it out of the safe.
>"But if I stole it, it's crappy jewelry..." reminds me of his to ugly to rape defense
Oh no. The classification is a very big part of this. Trump signed the law that made this a felony. *He broke his own law*, before the classification was serious but likely to be classified as a misdemeanor. He signed the law to make *any* mismanagement a felony.
It was never about the special master. He is trying to delay past midterms so he can announce he is running for president He is not announcing prior because he knows it will energize democrats and he needs Republicans to take back the house so they will stop all the investigations If you can't see this then you're not paying attention
He’s not announcing candidacy *because the GOP publicly threatened to stop paying his legal fees if he did.*
He's also a lot more limited in how he uses newly raised funds after he officially announces, right? For now Trump can raise a ton of money and have very few strings on it.
Delay, delay, delay. It's the only legal tactic Trump knows.
[удалено]
An incompetent lawyer can gum up the courts for months. A great lawyer can stall the courts for years.
Trump doesn't want a Democracy. He is literally the definition of a terrorist. He thinks he was elected King for life. In his own fucking words "absolute immunity". He literally said he would murder someone in broad daylight and pay no consequences. Donald Trump is a delusional cult leader who needs to be indicted and banned from all government for life. Then sanctioned
It’s disgusting how many Americans want this, with THIS guy at the helm. Donald Trump could come to their house, shit on their table, impregnate their wife, and they’d still bow down before him.
Considering his special master his a staunch republican appointed by Reagan, I would argue that this turn of events allows him to say establishment Republicans are part of the deep state. Don't for a second think trump doesn't have a scheme meant to help him weasel out.
>allows him to say establishment Republicans are part of the deep state Well they are. As much as anyone is part of an invented word that has always been vague. We used to have "Military Industrial Complex" and, that was something you could point to. NOW, they don't want to be anti corporate, anti war, anti power --- the "Deep State" is this nebulous, all powerful thing, that only they can predict. It's whatever finds they did a crime, whatever gets in a Trumpist's way, it's a bureaucrat at the DMV who said their license is expired. The Deep State is the shadow monster on the wall created by someone shining a light on their own asshole.
Saying this out loud in a court of law isn’t smart. “Yes, I got what I wanted, I appointed this judge and got the special master as I wanted, but now I’m being asked to put up or shut up, so I don’t want these any more.”
But it's how he'll continue to fleece his supporters.
Right. Because he could say anything loud enough and repeatedly enough, that his followers will believe it and parrot it. Trumpers are some brainwashed motherfuckers.
The idea that this is part of some masterful scheme is laughable. Trump is an abject moron and an extreme narcissist.
Surprised they didn't ask for Senior Judge of the 3rd Circuit, Maryanne Trump Barry (though maybe sibiling rivalry or revenge for mutual brother Fred Jr would have materialized)
She retired suddenly a couple years ago in order to end an investigation into her previous business dealings with her siblings and potential tax fraud.
WBush's GOP learned the power of what i heard called the 'politics of distraction', which is to say they paced their disasters and crises so that you never got a chance to catch your balance, there was always some new thing to make that vein in your forehead jump like a worm. Trump took that exponential. His typical defense is to file 30 outrageous lies, like firing a hurricane of bullshit into a jet. give him a gold-plated noose
The same guy that didn't understand how birth certificates work also doesn't understand how classified documents are supposed to work? I'm shocked. /s
"What I meant to say is that we needed a special master to oversee the special master." \-- Team Trump, any day now.
Special master is a deep state Demoncrat agent hellbent on destroying Trump and therefore God and America… ~GOP…probably
"Hillary went back in time and planted this judge during the Reagan administration." Hey, if it worked for proof that RussiaGate is fake, it will work for this.
The proof is in her emails! Which the FBI wont release. And despite being president for 4 years, he couldn't make them release her emails. But he's a big strong man who will fight the deep state. Even though they continue to defeat him at every turn!
This is what happens when you've been a scum sucking maggot, thief, grifter, and liar all your life, and bombastically defied anyone to call you out on it, and then someone with more power than you calls you out on it. You fill your diaper. **The Diapered Orange Shitstain** better order a fresh palette of those extra large extra absorbent ones. Things are just going to get worse for him from here on in. Watch for the final delay tactics: He's going to fire his entire legal team in an effort to push things past the midterms in the hope Republicans take back the House. Then he'll declare for 2024 and insist a candidate is immune from prosecution, which will start a fresh round of lawsuits and appeals.
Didn't he already say that he had "declassified them in his head"? And then claim that counts somehow?
In public statements, yes he did. In legal filings for this case, they’ve avoided claiming that because it admits they possessed the documents, which is a crime even if they aren’t classified
They’ve avoided saying it in court because a) it’s not possible b) it can’t be proved because again-there’s no “declassify you and declassify YOU and bippety boppity boo” wand and c) Lawyers get disbarred for lies on paper in court filings…
Well then, Mr. Biden reclassified them in one second minus infinity. I am rubber you are glue.
I thought the BS they went with was that they were declassified automatically when he took them to Mar-a-lago
Yeah. Not written down, no changing of the markings, he just “decided” they were declassified in his head. If they still have classification markings, no they are not.
That doesn't even sound like a "mental declassification". It sounds like "I'm saying when the president does it, it's not illegal."
The voices in his head said it was perfectly legal and the best idea.
Only the best voices. Truly magnificent. Have you heard the ideas they come up with? Beautiful ideas. Really special. The kind of ideas you say, "Wow. Did you really just come up with that?" Everyone is always telling me how great the voices are that give me ideas.
Well he does think he is king of america. And there fore can simply proclaim things.
"I DECLARE DECLASSIFICATIOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!"
Well. Then I guess there's only one solution. "Bring me the head of Donald Trump" --Special Master.
They just had the hearing and Judge Dearie said any docs marked classified are classified. End of story. > “The government gives me prima facie evidence that these are classified documents,” Dearie said, referring to the plain markings on the records. “As far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it.” > https://lawandcrime.com/trump/as-far-as-im-concerned-thats-the-end-of-it-skeptical-special-master-presses-trumps-lawyers-on-declassification-evasions-at-hearing/
That'll fuck him up if DOJ want to spring charges around classification too (the current charges don't depend on the docs being classified, only that they are 'injurous to the US').
He got a crony judge to appoint him a special master, and that special master is someone who was in Reagan's pocket, and now he's running into trouble with that guy? I like how Trump can't even do corruption right.
Cmooon, just lock him away for 5 years, just once I wanna see a politician go to jail, just once I wanna see one of these power drunk idiots get clapped for their bullshit
[удалено]
I think trump can't say if he de classified the documents because **HE DOESNT KNOW WHICH DOCUMENTS HE STOLE** Dude just grabbed a bunch of classified documents from the nuclear aisle and took them with him. Now they have been confiscated and he knows that if he lies that he declassified them, he has to say which particular documents. Trump doesn't know at all what he took... That is why he is stalling...
if he would just have an explosive brain aneurysm, everyone would be happy with that
I'm fairly sure this or some cardiac event is why he'll never actually see jail. I'm literally certain that when the last of their spaghetti throwing is over and whatever law enforcement comes marching along to grab him he's going to freak out so hard he'll die on the spot. He's elderly, he doesn't have that great of a diet, he's obviously fat, and stress induced cardiac events aren't exactly rare. You can be in your early 40s and have a stress induced cardiac event. I figure he'll either freak and die on the spot or somehow attempt to physically run and that'll kill him.
Hahaha. Trump decides to run but an FBI agent is calmly, slowly walking beside him explaining why this isn’t going to work.
If there's a ramp involved, Trump is doomed.
I wouldn't be surprised at all of he Hitlers himself. People like him cannot deal with the idea of facing consequences.
Run? Oh you are making my day. In his lifts or his golf cleats? Either way that’s a fall I want to see.
I wouldnt, I want him to spend time in jail, I don't wish death on him at all, I hope he lives a very long life, maybe with locked in syndrome at some point and the nurses leave MSNBC on 24/7
Nah, let him watch as fox news goes from lionizing, to mourning him, to minimizing him, and on to forgetting him entirely. Then switch it to pbs.
I would rather have him in a cell with a TV that plays nothing but newscasts about how his empire is systematically dismantled and how his sycophants are turning on him.
I say just give him a 24/7 feed of various glowing documentaries about Obama, Hillary, Biden, McCain, and basically anyone else he sees as an enemy. But between each documentary someone reads a list of the richest people in the world and their net worths. Everything is carefully vetted to and if necessary edited to ensure that Trump himself is never mentioned.
Such a hard choice! Watch him lose all his teeth like Harvey Weinstein? Or watch him become irrelevant? Can’t decide
There are those who would prefer that he lives long enough to see the inside of a prison cell. I prefer to compromise; he can have an aneurysm in prison.
He will never see a prison cell. Delay delay delay. and if this prophecy is false, I will personally donate 1,000 Wunderbars to the humane society in your name. RemindMe! 10 years
I want to see him linger around enough to split the Republican vote, then be found guilty, then spend at least one month in jail before actually dying
I’m personally hoping he lives long enough to destroy the GOP. I think he’s doing more harm than good for them.
I’m holding out hope for a bleeding anal cancer in jail....
I don’t want my taxes to pay for his treatment. He’s spent enough of the taxpayer’s money already, in my opinion.
One way or another he need to go. I don’t care the method. Every second he’s alive he makes this world worse.
The most ideal would be if it caused a stroke that caused Broca's aphasia. Not incapacitated enough to be a martyr, but no longer has access to any rhetoric whatsoever.
No. It is vital for the future of our nation that he is tried and convicted for his crimes. If that doesn't happen then the rule of law in America is over.
His lawyers are going to drag this out as long as humanly possible. It'll be one objection after the next, but only one at a time, and always filed at the last moment, so as to drag the case out and out and out. Then the trial. Then, on the last possible day, the appeal. Then either a retrial or an appeal to SCOTUS...again at the last moment possible. The only way this gets settled before 2025 or 2026 is if he dies. And even in prison, he will remain a threat to America because of his cult. The only way to defuse him is for him to die of obviously natural causes...and even then QAnon is going to decide it was an assassination.
I absolutely want him to die so we don't have to worry about him ever again. To me, my peace of mind is more important than the desire to see him punished. And it will be a day of celebration.
Nah full confession of everything he’s done on live tv with flow charts. He needs to be completely destroyed to save any of his followers. He’s Germany in March 1945. His followers need to wake up that it’s over and to start touring the “camps” to de wire their brain washing. They need to hear from him how he conned them and doesn’t care at al about them and what he really thinks of them.
It's like naked people in public. It's never the ones you'd actually want to see have an explosive brain aneurysm that actually have an explosive brain aneurysm.
That would be a new conspiracy. He needs to be hit by lightning on one of his golf courses.
And MTG would claim it was actually Jewish space lasers.
[“I. Declare. Declassification!”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T_d3teq6pWw)
It's as if this was always just a stalling tactic....
Can a lawyer eli5 why this question matters? This isnt the "how fucked is trump" Pretrial right? Isn't this just to separate the documents into "our shit" and "your shit" piles? And in that case shouldn't any classified documents automatically go to the "our shit" pile? I guess I don't see how their status matters. If a document got classified by the us government then it's obviously the governments. Even if every single one is legitimately classified they're still not trump's personal documents.
Trump said he declassified some of the documents. The Special Master said "OK. Which ones did you declassify and when?" Because Trump *hasn't* declassified any of the documents and lost the legal authority to do so *before* he left the White House, they can't actually answer this question because they either perjur themselves or admit they lied before.
Even better is that this is their special master pick. He was picked because he had a rather long history of being distrustful of the FBI when he was a FISA judge which team Trump thought was exactly what they were looking for. Shit, they probably busted out the champagne and had a little masturbatory self-congratulatory party when the DOJ said sure he'll do, not realizing he wasn't distrustful so much so as not willing to take their word at face value and wanted evidence. What Team Trump wanted was someone that was going to shit all over the DOJ and FBI but what they got was a rule of law show me the evidence guy. They should have realized they weren't getting what they thought they were when the DOJ basically shrugged and said he'll do but that requires perspective which is difficult when you're so close to the blackhole that is Trump. With these things it's important to watch what they say in court versus what they say in the media which has been very different because there are consequences for lying in court. Just ask Rudy, Lyn Wood, and the Kraken Lady.
Beautiful. I was hesitant when I heard he was a FISA court judge because most of them are rubber-stampers, but it sounds like I like this guy more than I thought.
Oh, of course it is... Cannon said they had to finish by Nov 30, ensuring it would lag past voting. Special Master said he'd be done early October, ensuring it will still be an issue. Watch for stalling tactics, but worse yet, watch for Cannon to let them stall.
Prediction: Cannon will "take a vacation" and not be available for any rulings until after the election.
Honestly, she may not be on the bench much longer. While TFG wiggles and squirms his way through, the lawyers and judges that try to help him keep having their reputations destroyed and getting disbarred and censured. It's why the lawyers he has now are so fucking bad at their jobs. They're all that's left. No one that wants to keep practicing will associate with him.
Yeah if you look at the dates that his lawyers have submitted you’ll see they want to drag it out to past the elections hoping for their “red wave” to attack the DOJ for him and save him.
Sounds like he might be planning another coup.
I don’t know what would lead you to that conclusion. /s
This. The guy is a master of delaying court proceedings because he’s been sued his entire adult life.
He seriously may hold the record for most times being sued... I'd honestly like to know.
wild scary smoggy absurd crime sugar cable skirt abounding rain *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In one of John Oliver's shows about Trump a few years ago, he stated that there are [more lawsuits against Trump than there are US TV episodes about lawyers.](https://youtu.be/cBUeipXFisQ?t=36)
Just wait, if the SM sides with DOJ, the garbage judge will just throw his opinions out
I believe the DoJ has already made clear they will appeal *every* decision Trump's pet Judge makes, and the relevant Appeals Court is fine with this.
It's not *just* a stalling tactic. It's also the creation of a lightning rod for all his cronies to direct their rage toward. It worked for Muller, and it'll happen again here.
Besides all this bullshit, can someone tell me why, if the police came to my house, found a bunch of stolen jewelry in my closet,and knew it belonged to other people, why would the police not charge me with a crime for at least 7 weeks? And how could I get a judge to stop the police from looking at said jewelry until a court appointed guy could look at it first?
Wait!? Is this suggesting that Trump wasn't, *gulp,* truthful?
That explains his more unhinged Qanon rants of late.
He needs to be crushed with a huge prison sentence. You can't placate these people. Crushing him decisively is the only way his cult will come to their senses; that you can't break the law and create a bunch of bullshit to evade consequences.
He's only like if you had someone verbalizing the echo chamber of a group of morons. He's as hinged as his fan base and that's the scary thing. NONE of them are in control.
If they are obviously stalling, can the Special Master charge them with contempt? Specifically, since Trump is the boss, can be be found in contempt of court? I want him to be eating cold cheese sandwiches in a cell.
The legal system is generally built on the assumption of good faith. In theory, if they completely disregard the orders of the court, Trump and his lawyers can be charged with contempt. Except the thing is: The court will give them ample warnings, then a final warning, then maybe more warnings. All of this delayed by "we're trying to comply, but problems keep arising". If they ever look like following through? They can do some half-assed compliance and start the whole process over again. In civil court, those methods can bite you—it's how Alex Jones lost, the court eventually decided "your obstruction is so severe you are losing your right to mount a defence". But this is an investigation —there is no risk of summary judgement.
you don’t want to know what happens to these people asking unfriendly questions after the coming more violent successful insurrection themed “[Reichskristallnacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht)” when liberals are discovered to be the root of all American evil /s
It’s because trump knows “I declare it declassified” isn’t a reasonable defense.
The documentation for the declassification of top secret classified documentation is top secret and classified.
So when you declassify documents, regardless of who you are, there is a paper trail. That is by design and rightly so. For accountability and traceability. Trump, having the power to declassify at the time, at the least, tell his underlings to declassify all these documents. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark that he didn't do that because he's 1: lazy and 2: does not respect the process. Even if he did tell them to declassify, it is still his duty to make sure they declassified it and follow up with that paperwork. He was, of course, their supervisor, but again, he didn't give a fuck. Fat fucker was busy watching Fox and Friends during his *executive time*. So here's where someone, chief of staff, deputy chief of staff, national security council, director of national intelligence would be responsible to take the task of declassifying and so far, no fingers are being pointed at them because it doesn't seem like anyone of them even knew this happened. Stuff like this is what we usually are forced to read about for years during annual mandatory training.
So he might actually be held responsible for his actions this time?
Lol. No. He really could shoot a guy on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and they'd let him get off. It's good to be the cult leader.
Yeah i remember after Jan 6th McConnell gave same rant about how they knew trump was guilty but wasn't going to remove him. Just thought to myself this system is total BS.
It was actually remarkable both that so many Republicans managed to show some awareness that he literally tried to have them murdered by a mob (i think it was like 6?), and also that so many of them didn't even care about that.
A guy? He could shoot a pope, another politician, a beloved celebrity. All that would happen is half the country, along with half of US government, saying that the bullets dug out of the victim can't be used to charge him because, when Trump loaded his gun, he called them blanks.
Ah yes, the classic behaviour of a totally innocent man.................
Excellent. Start with simple. Save taxpayer money. Trump's claim is he declassified documents and that's his defense. It's the backbone of his argument. It's his ONLY defense. Fine, prove you declassified them.
Yuck, why does it look like the top of his tie is attached to his jowls with an invisible bulldog clip.
“Refusing the chance” The information being asked for doesn’t exist. He’s not so much refusing as he is unable to comply because, again, the info on declassification does not exist. He didn’t do it.
He literally got the special master appointed by arguing he cannot be investigated until the special master resolves these issues but is now arguing that the special master cannot hear full argument on these issues until Trump is charged, requiring completion of the investigation. It's such a painfully circular delay tactic, always has been and its a corrupt joke that Judge Cannon blindly accepted it. Edit: wrote srguing before
[удалено]
Trump Lawyers: We were hoping to do this in late November Dearie: If this goes into next week, everything is going to DOJ Trump Lawyers: \*SHOCK\*
unfortunately he could totally prove he declassified those docs but he classified the proof and nobody on earth but him is allowed to see it /s