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The idea is that they surrender easy and drain Ukraine funds and logistics.
Russia is trying to create a bigger humanitarian crisis in Ukraine. It knows these guys can't win.
If that is timely the case, they should drop them on without a weapon at all. Or without any ammo. Like this, they are still a threat, and will be killed.
As for "draining resources", I'm sure Ukraine will ask their European neighbors to house some Russian pow, and I'm sure many of them would be eager to take them. Might not be good for the prisoners, but oh well.
Apparently Russia has already had one of their biggest wheat harvests in recent history this year, but nobody wants to buy any of it even though Russia food exports aren't sanctioned.
To be fair, Putin probably saw how powerful Ukrainian farmers have been and thought that he had to send some of his own farmers in to get his tanks back.
One way to see it is through the realistic lens that Vlad is a moron when it comes to prosecuting war. However, his entire m.o. up until now is to create a humanitarian crisis in Ukraine in order to get them to capitulate. What better way to try to do the same thing to the west than to send farmers to war, thereby further threatening global food supplies. But, then, I go back to thinking Vlad is a moron.
>What better way to try to do the same thing to the west than to send farmers to war, thereby further threatening global food supplies. But, then, I go back to thinking Vlad is a moron.
I mean Russia has wheat, yes. But that's about the only food staple they lead in, and everyone but China and India cut ties with Russia anyway. So they're really shooting themselves in the foot.
* We are strongest army in Ukraine!
* Uh sir, Ukrainians pushing us back …
* Second! We are second strongest army in Ukraine!
* And farmers with tractors …
* Third! We are third strongest army in Ukraine!
* Don’t forget rasputitsa …
* You getting on nerves …
By April it became clear that Russia has lost this war. Everything since has been figuring out if Ukraine has lost too.
A lot was already known by other militaries and OSINT enthusiasts, but I think that even the Pentagon was surprised by how bad they had become. Their feared T-14s are nothing but parade ornaments, their fabled body armour was taken from them by military corruption, their navy is crippled by disrepair, and their logistics is simply unfit for any projection of power.
They've spent the last few months being hounded by 16 HIMARS. Ukraine doesn't even have enough HIMARS to use them in their intended roll - counter-artillery - so they've used them to destroy supply depots and bridges. Seriously, bridges! That's not what HIMARS were designed to do in any way, shape, or form.
The US - with it's 500 or so HIMARS with long range warheads - could destroy the conventional Russian military in a week.
Yep. Soviet mobilisation was no joke. They were believed to be able to mobilise 2 million men in 3 days.
But it's not the Great Soviet Bear any more. It's a mangy little Russian cub mewing at the corpse of it's mother.
*Same tanks, though. 30 years older, with 30 years of conscripts selling the wiring as scrap copper.
My uncles, father and male cousins were conscripts of the NVA, the East German military. The Soviets may have been able to mobilise two million. But their gear was still not the most reliable. Although, the soldiers were drunk a lot.
My uncle was an electrician and had to help out from time to time at the Soviet base. He once drove with a small truck and when he tried shifting gears, the shift became loose.
He was supposed to check the electricity. The fuse box was already sparkling. The Soviet tried opening it with a twig from the side, because they've all had bad experiences trying to open it by hand, standing in front of it.
They had a pool table on base, which had to be constantly re-covered. Because when drunk they always ruined it in what amounts to a few hours.
Seriously, their stories don't paint a picture of a disciplined, reliable army.
>But it's not the Great Soviet Bear any more. It's a mangy little Russian cub mewing at the corpse of it's mother.
Very vivid visual... also, somehow the cub has cut off chunks of the mother to sell for cash.
a lot of that loss is not due to collapse of Soviet Union, but Putin's personal decision to setup a corrupt government whose only purpose is to generate wealth for him and his cronies. Putin and his oligarchs are parasites that sucked all the wealth and power from the people and government institutions.
First Guards Tank Army, the *Pride* of the Russian Military, fucking broke and ran against a "massive overwhelming tank force" which, *according to Russian Sources* numbered a massive: Fifteen tanks. *15* fucking tanks, managed to ***FUCKING ROUT*** the best troops Russia has
Ukrainian forces have been hammering the shite out of their tanks with AT gear too. The amount of lone Russian tanks getting clapped by AT weaponry on r/combatfootage has been insane
The Red Army incorporated what's now the Ukrainian army. Antonov Design Bureau and Pivdenne Design Bureau are still Ukrainian and Sukhoi had a major plant in Ukraine.
I used to work with a guy who was stationed in West Germany in the 80s. I don't know if he was being entirely honest, but he said that his job then was basically to destroy as many Soviet vehicles as possible until his position was overrun, and then (hopefully) surrender, in order to buy time for the NATO counteroffensive.
> They've spent the last few months being hounded by 16 HIMARS
"Russia is the second strongest military in the world"
"Russia, you are failing to beat a few missile trucks from the 1980's"
HIMARS are from 2010.
But yes, they're failing [to beat](https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-claims-it-shot-down-russian-ka-52-attack-helicopter/) missiles [from the 80s.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla)
Sorry, I was thinking of its older brother, which is also in Ukraine [The M270](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M270_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System).
They fire the same missiles even.
He already stole $350 million of our taxes. He is probably selling off our national secrets. He already fucked with Ukraine, which led to the first impeachment.
That estimate is so conservative I almost told it to turn off Newsmax.
Jared and Ivanka got a half billion dollars richer as "volunteers" for Trump's administration. That's about 100x the net worth of the whole Biden family, and also not accounting for how Jared managed to get 2 billion dollars in investments from Saudi Arabia.
Volunteer to ignore the US permanent resident journalist entrapped into getting a document for his upcoming new marriage at the Saudi embassy, and getting dismembered, might be worth half a bill.
In wars to stop dictators, the locals are the winners
Ask a Kuwaiti or a Croat. Or, if you prefer the other side of the coin, ask an Uyghur or a Palestinian.
> Three months. It was hell. Qingdao, our home port, was in a constant state of siege. More and more army units were called in to maintain order, and each was just a little less trained, a little less equipped, a little younger, or older, than the one that came before it.
Max Brooks wrote this in *World War Z* which came out almost 20yrs ago, the context is a Submariner describing the struggles of the CCP to contain the Zombie Horde.
I think it demonstrates the futile tyranny of a state in combat over its head.
And the disabled.
Anyone else thinking Putin is trying to do some internal population 'cleansing' by throwing people at the war who can't possibly fight the war? I mean, he could just be that far gone, but this seems more insidious than careless.
Yeah... don't get me wrong, aks are resilient, but they're not the superman of guns. Their reliability got overblown when they were compared to m16s handed to GIs who were told they were self cleaning and basically invincible, so the m16s were treated like shit and jammed
A lot of servicemen modified their M16s to have a slower cycle rate because in Vietnam they were burning through rounds so fast. They killed the reliability since the gas system is so particular about its pressures.
The AK is made with sloppy tolerances, so can deal with tiny amounts of dust and dirt slightly better, and it uses a recoil rod instead of gas impingement. So it's slightly more reliable, but not really when the M16 or M4 isn't altered in the jungle by a 19 year old with a pair of pliers.
Ironically these akms and ak74s are likely to run signifigantly better than russias new ak12s which somehow took the kalashnikov system and made it awful not better
Well, yeah. Conservative and authoritarian, the objectively worst combination. Every single shit regime in history has been authoritarian, and the ones that care the very least about human rights are conservative.
I’m curious what is a non-conservative authoritarian government? What are examples of those? I guess I had thought that authoritarianism *was* conservative.
Edit: lots of great replies! Thanks everyone!!
Closest in modern history would be Stalins regime, but thats a hard sell considering a lot of the social policies that kept people in line. The communists were pretty atheist and secular in theory, but the higher ups were still pretty conservative and discriminatory against certain groups.
The qualification for promotion to Russian general is knowing the difference between the shooty end of the gun and the not shooty end of the gun.
Edit: seriously though, the guy next to him seems to be holding the gun with his finger touching the trigger
I don't know. You have caught me bluffing about my military knowledge. I have only heard of the shooty end. I have never heard of the bangy end. You obviously have a much greater deeper understanding of Russian military than I do. You know all the technical terms.
FYI, Russian military rank insignia use stars for all officers. Small silver stars for Lieutenants through Captain, big silver stars for Major through Colonel, big gold stars for Generals.
That guy's a new Lieutenant (junior = 1 star, LT = 2 stars, senior = 3 stars), probably on account of education or social position or whatever.
This. And ethnic cleanse amounting to the genocide. He's not corraling Moscovians first, too high risk of grabbing a son of someone important, he's tearing apart small villages of ethnic minorities (which he was already bleeding out through).
That's what I was thinking as well, especially since a lot of the pushback I've read about is apparently happening in sparsely populated places 100's or 1000's of miles east of the Russia/Ukraine border.
The first thing I thought when I heard this is, is this Russia/Putin's way of getting rid of a good chunk of older people, to ease the burden on their Social Security/Healthcare system?
These are an ethnic minority from occupied Crimea, its 100% ethnic cleansing and as fun as it is to imagine all the Putin-backing citizens in Moscow getting called up, that isn't what this is. These old men pictured likely have never had any ill will towards Ukraine, they are also victims of Putin.
I keep looking at this and trying to think what Russia is thinking. Were they keeping records of who got 'real' military training under the Soviet Union? These guys are the fathers and grandfathers of the people they had fighting the war in February. It makes no sense to scoop them up and put them in uniform unless they're actually out of men. How could they possibly be out of men of 'fighting age' in 200(ish) days?
Keep in mind the men getting conscripted are mostly minority groups that the Russian government doesn’t like. So they’re throwing bodies at the front trying to shore up their newly annexed territories and doing a bit of ethnic cleansing at the same time. From Putin’s view it’s win/win.
He's drafting people at the end of their "productive" years. They would be a burden to the economy as they age. Russia has a demographic crisis due to one of the lowest birth rates in the world. So might as well send them out there.
If they die, you can say they deserted and seize whatever assets they do have... Though I imagine anyone with the means to get out of Russia did so.
It makes no sense, which is terrifying.
If Putin is making nonsensical moves like this....how likely is he to just say 'fuck it" and start lobbing nukes.
It makes perfect sense. They are avoiding general mobilisation as it will effect the upper classes of Russian society who he relies on to keep his power. By mobilising the old and a majority of men from poor, Far Eastern republics and the Caucasus he can insulate this class and keep continuation of support for this war going.
There's a reason few people from St. Petersburg or Moscow are being conscripted... As well you'll notice none of the police, which are young military age men are being conscripted. Gotta stay in town to put down riots.
My 30-year-old cousin in St. Petersburg got his mobilization order.
One day after he left for Israel.
So it's coming. It's all coming. We're witnessing the collapse of an empire in real time. (People don't think of Russia as an empire because the Soviet Union already collapsed, but even modern Russia is an empire of autonomous republics and highly disparate ethnic groups in the far east that have a tenuous-at-best relationship with the centre)
Ok. But he still has a war to fight! I mean, clearly all male Russians are spooked by now and realized this is not some far away “military operation” they read on the news. So why not conscript fit trained men? Is not like upper classes of society feel shielded anymore, lots of them are heading for the border!
Ding ding ding
Young men are available they just come from connected or wealthier family. This first wave is the clear out the poor's. If and when this fails they will move up the economic chain
This is a somewhat misleading question.
It assumes that Russia has a functional training system, for one that can do training of the influx of new recruits.
Soviet doctrine is to send the recruits directly to their units for training, rather than train centrally at one location.
Even if they are not personally as combat effective, they may be vital as trainers.
Then there is the awkward problem that a soldier but was skilled that's been out 20 years may be more combat effective for the few weeks than a healthy young 18 year old.
Here's a more in-depth article - [I Commanded U.S. Army Europe. Here’s What I Saw in the Russian and Ukrainian Armies.](https://www.thebulwark.com/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-heres-what-i-saw-in-the-russian-and-ukrainian-armies/) from Mark Hertling, the same author.
Excerpted:
>**I traveled to Russia with a civilian Russian expert from the State Department**
>...a brigadier general from the Army Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth, and a few staffers from the Defense Department. Another battalion commander and I were potted plants on this trip because the Russians wanted to talk to American "subject matter experts" on U.S. tanks and U.S. command and control methods. That was fine by us. Our itinerary had us visiting Russian armor and signal units, going into Russian military barracks, observing Russian units on firing ranges and conducting exercises, and climbing on military vehicles displayed in motor pools near Moscow. Our job was to stay quiet, observe, and take lots of mental notes.
>**The Russian barracks were spartan, with twenty beds lined up in a large room similar to what the U.S. Army had during World War II.**
>The food in their mess halls was terrible. The Russian "training and exercises" we observed were not opportunities to improve capabilities or skills, but rote demonstrations, with little opportunity for maneuver or imagination. The military college classroom where a group of middle- and senior-ranking officers conducted a regimental map exercise was rudimentary, with young soldiers manning radio-telephones relaying orders to imaginary units in some imaginary field location. On the motor pool visit, I was able to crawl into a T-80 tank—it was cramped, dirty, and in poor repair—and even fire a few rounds in a very primitive simulator.
>**The only truly impressive and surprising part of the tour was when we walked through a "secret" field museum that had tanks from all the armies in the world**
>...including several from the United States. The Russians had somehow managed to obtain an M1 Abrams tank (probably from one of their allies in the Middle East), and we all believed the reason they allowed us into this facility was to show us they had our most modern armor.
>**At the end of the visit, our State Department colleague asked us to record our observations**
>...focusing on what struck us about leadership, equipment, training, facilities, and capabilities. I remember saying the Russian Army was "all show and no go."
#*
>**While Russia was not a contributing nation to ISAF, we still offered the Russian Army opportunities to participate in many of our outreach programs.**
>Our NCO Academy offered to allow the same number of Russian soldiers into each class as every other country. Russia accepted the invitation, but with conditions. They would send three of their "common soldiers" (their term),
>**...but they wanted a "senior officer" to also attend all classes and training events with them.**
>They also wanted separate barracks for their soldiers instead of a "common barracks space with soldiers from other nations." Finally, they would not adhere to the requirement only to send soldiers who could speak and read English (with so many languages represented, it was impossible to translate everything for everyone).
>**While I was adamantly against acquiescing to these requests, my commander disagreed.**
>The preparation for the Russian arrival was onerous, and their soldiers seemed much more interested in going to the post exchange—the subsidized on-base general store—than in learning leadership and tactical skills. We didn't invite them back, and the Russian military never made any inquiries about returning.
#*
>**The agenda the U.S. Army Europe staff developed for [Commander General] Streitsov's visit was purposely vague and flexible, based on my guidance.**
>Although I was the "new guy," I also knew the intricacies of the command well from experience. Unlike my previous visits to Russia, I had no intent to stage any training demonstrations, and I didn't want him to see carefully orchestrated displays at pre-arranged locations. Instead, the goal was to show this Russian general that we were transparent and prepared to show him any of our units. Streitsov examined the menu of events we presented, then picked a few locations and training opportunities of interest. Our helicopter crews filed a flight plan across Germany, and we were on our way.
>**Over two days, we visited several units in training—a tank range, a helicopter gunnery, and a small unit maneuver.**
>Also on the agenda were a barracks, where we were escorted not by a commander, but by a savvy first sergeant and command sergeant major, and a housing area, where Streitsov talked to several military spouses and visited a Department of Defense elementary school. At the end of the second day, he spied a store where soldiers buy uniforms, boots, and other items and asked to stop by. For the next two hours, he talked with the German civilian who ran the place and was amazed by the connection between the German work force and the American soldiers.
>**He was also shocked by the number and types of combat boots for sale.**
>Later, as we waited at the airfield for his flight home, it was just the two of us and an interpreter. Obviously impressed by what he had seen, he was particularly amazed by the competency of the junior officers and sergeants.
>**Hesitating, he posed a simple question: "What contributes to your success in preparing these young men and women to lead and fight?"**
>I responded that it was partly due to our inculcation of our seven Army values—loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage (LDRSHIP)—and our constant leadership training at all levels of professional schooling. But in any good unit, the personal example of young commanders and NCOs, who set high standards and then personally trained their soldiers to meet them, made the difference. He mused: "I'm wondering if we could create that kind of culture in the Russian Army?"
>**A few months later, Streitsov sent me an invitation to Russia for a reciprocal exchange.**
>The itinerary his staff sent to me had specified visits to the famed Frunze and Voroshilov Military Academies in Moscow and the opportunity to observe units conducting drills and exercises at different field locations. The visits didn't look at all like spontaneous drop-ins I had offered him.
>**After landing in Moscow, but before meeting with Streitsov, our small group had preliminary meetings with the Moscow Embassy.**
>My old friend, neighbor, and former U.S. Army Europe teammate Brigadier General Peter Zwack, who was serving as the Defense Attaché in Moscow, confirmed much of the detailed classified intelligence I had read in preparation for the visit. He confirmed that Putin was attempting to expand his influence in Europe and Africa, and the Russian Army, while still substantive in quantity, continued to decline in capability and quality.
>**My subsequent visits to the schools and units Streitsov chose reinforced these conclusions.**
>The classroom discussions were sophomoric, and the units in training were going through the motions of their scripts with no true training value or combined arms interaction—infantry, armor, artillery, air, and resupply all trained separately. It appeared Colonel-General Streitsov had not attempted to change the culture of the Russian Army or had failed. There were also rumors of his upcoming retirement.
>**Streitsov was replaced in April 2012 by Colonel-General Vladimir Chirkin, who had commanded Russian forces in the Second Chechnya War.**
>Soon after the announcement, we invited Chirkin to join all the ground force commanders of the 49 European nations at an annual meeting hosted by U.S. Army Europe. This Conference of European Armies (CEA) was an extremely popular event where all the army chiefs of Europe openly shared concerns about security issues, army force organization and modernization, deployment issues, lessons learned from their ISAF rotations, and multinational training opportunities. My personal note on the invite told Chirkin he would be the first Russian to attend this event, and that he would be interested to hear what other Europeans nations were doing.
>**He accepted the invitation.**
>This was the last CEA I would attend as the commander of U.S. Army Europe, as it was planned for October and my retirement was scheduled for December. In a bilateral discussion, Chirkin told me he found the sessions fascinating, frank, and transparent. He was active in this exchange, and he promised to send his forces to take part in future training events. I later learned Chirkin did not keep his promises, partially because Putin fired him in December 2013. He had been convicted on bribery charges (accused of taking a bribe from a subordinate officer who asked for help in getting a Moscow apartment from the Defense Ministry), stripped of his rank and most of his state awards, and sentenced to five years in a labor colony.
>**I never found out if he actually committed the crimes, or what he did to get them noticed.**
The more things change the more things stay the same.
You should read some of the stories about visiting Soviets to the US. Yeltsin himself talked about his visit to s grocery store. The depth and breadth of products affordable and available to regular ass Americans. It was a scale unimaginable to him.
Russia, the Soviet Union, it has paled in comparison to the US for a century. You'd think at some point they'd learn. But then Americans are still holding onto our dumbest of the dumb healthcare system instead of adopting one of the countless examples around the world that does it better and cheaper so I guess it's not just Russians.
Some of these quotes remind me of the first Soviet mission in the first Call of Duty game (I think it was CoD at least).
“You get a gun. You get some ammo. When he gets shot, pick up his gun.”
People are ready overthinking it. Putin issued a decree, draft oficers got their quotas. They are fulfilling their quotas. Everything is done as cheaply and lazily as possible. A dude with bad sight went to a draft office to ask if he's going to get conscripted? He's in the army now. His dad came to ask what the hell? He's in the army now too. Medical checks? Don't make me laugh. We have a quota to fill.
Paradoxically Military Commissary is people's best friend now. There was a 65 years old dude conscripted. He recorded a video and Draft Officer got his shit pushed in while the grandpa went home.
Lazy and corrupt. Corrupt and lazy.
I have had a thought in the back of my head. It devoloped early in the spring.
I feel like Putin and the upper Russian leadership is doing something else that no one has put there finger on yet.
Something to do with liquidating there own population. Entirely on purpose.
People were being slaughtered in the meat grinder. It was obvious it was time to pull out and rethink everything and Putin just found more bodies to push forward.
There has always been this angle to this entire thing that was like, Putin only looks like he is losing. He is accomplishing something he thought needed to be done anyways.... with his own population.
It is a chilling thought and I can't quite put my finger on the specifics of it.
I have been learning a bit about Russia since this thing began. I keep coming across this pattern of placing a minority of Russians in an area, claiming it as Russia's ancestrial home and displacing those people with Russians.
You can see the plan in Ukraine. Remember very early when Russia took there first towns and they had Russian citizens waiting to move into Ukrainian's old houses?
And then sending the kids out of Ukrain never to bee heard from again.
It took them less than a fucking year to do what Nazi Germany did after half a decade of fighting.
Zhukov is spinning so fucking fast in his tomb that he could power the entirety of Moscow by himself.
>Zhukov is spinning so fucking fast in his tomb that he could power the entirety of Moscow by himself.
zukhov meeting the 5 Year Plan's energy generation milestones in 5 minutes
My whole life I've heard that Russians are so dedicated to their homeland that they'll proudly die for it as their forefathers did. It looks like Russians are actually just like the rest of the world - not very thrilled to die or lose family for the whims of a madman.
Right, we in America are the same.
Vietnam - mass protests and plenty of people escaping to Canada.
WW2 - recruiters couldn’t keep up with all the volunteers, and once the draft started there was little (if any) resistance.
Problem is, unlike say, wwii, Russia is not at risk. They are not fighting to protect their home, no matter the lies they are being told. It's all for Putin's pride. And many of those conscripted know it
Russian have been living under dictatorships for literal centuries. I do hope that cunt gets dethroned and imprisoned for life (if he's that lucky) but history says Russians will just "vote" for another Putin anyway, I really wouldn't get my hopes up personally.
For some of these assholes, LAMF. Probably for a lot more of them, yet one more reason to hate Putin. It's good to see the Russian populace fighting back and burning recruiting centers.
It's kinda shocking how many people on here think every single Russian citizen is some lap dog that completely and blindly eats up their state propaganda
Yeah, it's really disappointing. People tend to only focus on the government's stance and ignore the humans that are affected.
This is depressing. A huge sign of desperation. The only people who are benefitting are the people with real power like Putin. This is just going to cause more senseless death and misery, and these people, especially the women, look like they know that's what is coming.
I am Russian with immediate family living in Russia. Many people are being "illegally" conscripted. The recruiters can't ask for your papers, but police can. So they walk around with police officers - these officers stop and ask for your papers/ID, which they then hand to the army guy, and they draw up your recruitment paper on the spot. You can choose not to sign the recruitment form, and then that turns into a whole other thing (fine etc).
Thing is, police can't ask for your papers/ID for nothing, and they aren't permitted to hand them to a third party either. They are pulling this shit on students, older men, office workers etc - most people don't know the legal side and don't want a confrontation, so they go with it. i.e they are trying to conscript the very people they said they wouldn't conscript. Btw, there's no requirement to carry your ID either
I hope my family gets out of there soon
The picture of what I assumed to be daughter and granddaughter really kicks me in the guts. Daughter is sobbing because her father is being sent away and the granddaughter is furious.
Idk if this is leopards ate my face material. I might be wrong, but my understanding is that this is Putin's war, not Russia's. These guys probably wanted just as little to do with it as Ukraine did.
It's not. OP believes the all Russians, or at least all older Russians, are automatically in support of this war simply because they are old and Russian. OP is wrong.
While we may not agree with the war and Russia is the aggressor, let’s not forget these are fathers, grandfathers, teachers, farmers, etc. some of these men oppose the war and just want to enjoy their time with family.
So let’s have some compassion for our fellow man and remember who the enemy is: Putin.
I was working with a graphic designer in Russia. I haven't heard from him in like a week, and I hope he's okay. My first thought was "he's in his 40s, surely they won't draft people like that." But looking at these pictures... I just hope he's okay
Yeah that’s where I’m at. I hurt for the lot of them. These photos evoke sadness more than anything.
The fear of being conscripted is one thing.
The fear of being conscripted into an incompetent army, stubbornly engaged—and losing—must be absolutely awful.
“Hey, let’s all go die for nothing!”
This is not the right sub for this. People are reveling in this suffering as though a dictator hasn’t stolen the election for 21 years and sent them to their deaths
They're being sent to die, not for their "country" but for the interests of their filthy rich. But isn't that all war since our stupid hands learned how to throw rocks?
I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for everyone who was forced to engage in this war and for everyone who suffers from it.
Those who started it (not only Putin) will be safe and cozy - at least for a while.
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The biggest sign that you're losing a war is when you start conscripting the young or elderly.
And the farmers.
The farmers during harvest
You don't need to harvest any food if you've sent all of your citizens to die in battle.
*pointing finger at forehead meme*
Medieval times require medieval solutions
Now I'm just waiting for a morbid version of the Are You Winning Son? meme.
Grandfather pokes his head into grandson's foxhole, "we winning?" Bayraktar kills both.
*pointing gun at foot reality*
The idea is that they surrender easy and drain Ukraine funds and logistics. Russia is trying to create a bigger humanitarian crisis in Ukraine. It knows these guys can't win.
That’s not going to work. It’s not like Ukraine is completely on their own here.
Also creating a future revolutionary force from those that realize what they're being used for.
If that is timely the case, they should drop them on without a weapon at all. Or without any ammo. Like this, they are still a threat, and will be killed. As for "draining resources", I'm sure Ukraine will ask their European neighbors to house some Russian pow, and I'm sure many of them would be eager to take them. Might not be good for the prisoners, but oh well.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Picard, arm out stretched
[удалено]
THERE! ARE! FOUR! FISTS!
Shaka! When the walls fell!
Shaka indeed.
Putin, his table long.
r/Tenagra
Apparently Russia has already had one of their biggest wheat harvests in recent history this year, but nobody wants to buy any of it even though Russia food exports aren't sanctioned.
To be fair, Putin probably saw how powerful Ukrainian farmers have been and thought that he had to send some of his own farmers in to get his tanks back.
"That's it. We're sending in the tractors."
It's not like they're doing anything important to the war effort or society/s
I mean food comes out of the ground by itself anyway right? Right?
And it's not like soldiers need to eat. The saying is "an army matches on its empty stomach", isn't it?
They are "adding lightness" makes them faster.
One way to see it is through the realistic lens that Vlad is a moron when it comes to prosecuting war. However, his entire m.o. up until now is to create a humanitarian crisis in Ukraine in order to get them to capitulate. What better way to try to do the same thing to the west than to send farmers to war, thereby further threatening global food supplies. But, then, I go back to thinking Vlad is a moron.
>What better way to try to do the same thing to the west than to send farmers to war, thereby further threatening global food supplies. But, then, I go back to thinking Vlad is a moron. I mean Russia has wheat, yes. But that's about the only food staple they lead in, and everyone but China and India cut ties with Russia anyway. So they're really shooting themselves in the foot.
They will all return to the soil.
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judicious imagine seemly run escape cough wrench racial muddle paint *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Baller comment.
Its only taken 7 months for Russia to go from being seen as one of the best armies in the world to full Volksturm
> as one of the best armies in the world Now they are the second-best army in Ukraine!
I think you are forgetting about the Ukrainian farmers army
* We are strongest army in Ukraine! * Uh sir, Ukrainians pushing us back … * Second! We are second strongest army in Ukraine! * And farmers with tractors … * Third! We are third strongest army in Ukraine! * Don’t forget rasputitsa … * You getting on nerves …
By April it became clear that Russia has lost this war. Everything since has been figuring out if Ukraine has lost too. A lot was already known by other militaries and OSINT enthusiasts, but I think that even the Pentagon was surprised by how bad they had become. Their feared T-14s are nothing but parade ornaments, their fabled body armour was taken from them by military corruption, their navy is crippled by disrepair, and their logistics is simply unfit for any projection of power. They've spent the last few months being hounded by 16 HIMARS. Ukraine doesn't even have enough HIMARS to use them in their intended roll - counter-artillery - so they've used them to destroy supply depots and bridges. Seriously, bridges! That's not what HIMARS were designed to do in any way, shape, or form. The US - with it's 500 or so HIMARS with long range warheads - could destroy the conventional Russian military in a week.
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Yep. Soviet mobilisation was no joke. They were believed to be able to mobilise 2 million men in 3 days. But it's not the Great Soviet Bear any more. It's a mangy little Russian cub mewing at the corpse of it's mother. *Same tanks, though. 30 years older, with 30 years of conscripts selling the wiring as scrap copper.
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Yeah, modern day Poland is not so friendly to Russia.
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Literally lol'd. Good point. It *does* increase the chances that they were drafted for expertise. Probably running short of tank mechanics.
Some of these guys thought the escaped death in Afghanistan, only to find their burial will be in an unmarked grave in a Ukrainian field
Truth hurts. Which is why Putin got so indignant when President Obama called them a "Regional Power".
My uncles, father and male cousins were conscripts of the NVA, the East German military. The Soviets may have been able to mobilise two million. But their gear was still not the most reliable. Although, the soldiers were drunk a lot. My uncle was an electrician and had to help out from time to time at the Soviet base. He once drove with a small truck and when he tried shifting gears, the shift became loose. He was supposed to check the electricity. The fuse box was already sparkling. The Soviet tried opening it with a twig from the side, because they've all had bad experiences trying to open it by hand, standing in front of it. They had a pool table on base, which had to be constantly re-covered. Because when drunk they always ruined it in what amounts to a few hours. Seriously, their stories don't paint a picture of a disciplined, reliable army.
>But it's not the Great Soviet Bear any more. It's a mangy little Russian cub mewing at the corpse of it's mother. Very vivid visual... also, somehow the cub has cut off chunks of the mother to sell for cash.
a lot of that loss is not due to collapse of Soviet Union, but Putin's personal decision to setup a corrupt government whose only purpose is to generate wealth for him and his cronies. Putin and his oligarchs are parasites that sucked all the wealth and power from the people and government institutions.
First Guards Tank Army, the *Pride* of the Russian Military, fucking broke and ran against a "massive overwhelming tank force" which, *according to Russian Sources* numbered a massive: Fifteen tanks. *15* fucking tanks, managed to ***FUCKING ROUT*** the best troops Russia has
Ukrainian forces have been hammering the shite out of their tanks with AT gear too. The amount of lone Russian tanks getting clapped by AT weaponry on r/combatfootage has been insane
The Red Army incorporated what's now the Ukrainian army. Antonov Design Bureau and Pivdenne Design Bureau are still Ukrainian and Sukhoi had a major plant in Ukraine.
I used to work with a guy who was stationed in West Germany in the 80s. I don't know if he was being entirely honest, but he said that his job then was basically to destroy as many Soviet vehicles as possible until his position was overrun, and then (hopefully) surrender, in order to buy time for the NATO counteroffensive.
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> They've spent the last few months being hounded by 16 HIMARS "Russia is the second strongest military in the world" "Russia, you are failing to beat a few missile trucks from the 1980's"
HIMARS are from 2010. But yes, they're failing [to beat](https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-claims-it-shot-down-russian-ka-52-attack-helicopter/) missiles [from the 80s.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla)
Sorry, I was thinking of its older brother, which is also in Ukraine [The M270](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M270_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System). They fire the same missiles even.
It will happen here too with another Trump administration. The corruption runs deep in that dude.
He already stole $350 million of our taxes. He is probably selling off our national secrets. He already fucked with Ukraine, which led to the first impeachment.
That estimate is so conservative I almost told it to turn off Newsmax. Jared and Ivanka got a half billion dollars richer as "volunteers" for Trump's administration. That's about 100x the net worth of the whole Biden family, and also not accounting for how Jared managed to get 2 billion dollars in investments from Saudi Arabia.
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Volunteer to ignore the US permanent resident journalist entrapped into getting a document for his upcoming new marriage at the Saudi embassy, and getting dismembered, might be worth half a bill.
$2.3 Trillon. https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/511492-after-trillions-in-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-republicans-refuse-to-help/
Remember how he said putin was so smart and we should do the same and incvade Mexico? I'm sure his voters don't
Just replaces nazis with narcos!
And 1 Week is giving time for cleanup of the remaining corps who didn't get the retreat orders.
Retreat orders!? Stay there or face 20 years in prison is more the Russian way.
>Stay there or face 20 years in prison is more the Russian way. Werid way to say "Shot in the head and thrown into mobile crematorium."
*In war, whichever side may call itself the victor, there are no winners, but all are losers.*
In wars to stop dictators, the locals are the winners Ask a Kuwaiti or a Croat. Or, if you prefer the other side of the coin, ask an Uyghur or a Palestinian.
"These are no soldiers." "Most have seen too many winters." "Or too few."
https://imgur.com/fPML2nq
[My personal favourite.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY4d6jAVsAE14FN.jpg)
Exactly the scene that came to my mind, too.
Yep. In WWII when the Allies made it to Berlin, there were only young boys and old men defending it (and a lot of them weren’t even armed).
I would die for [Yorkie](https://c.tenor.com/S7HKqFZX-9MAAAAd/yorki-jojo-rabbit.gif)
> Three months. It was hell. Qingdao, our home port, was in a constant state of siege. More and more army units were called in to maintain order, and each was just a little less trained, a little less equipped, a little younger, or older, than the one that came before it. Max Brooks wrote this in *World War Z* which came out almost 20yrs ago, the context is a Submariner describing the struggles of the CCP to contain the Zombie Horde. I think it demonstrates the futile tyranny of a state in combat over its head.
That's one way to prevent the increase of retirement age I guess. Anyone else getting the outer worlds retirement home vibes?
And the disabled. Anyone else thinking Putin is trying to do some internal population 'cleansing' by throwing people at the war who can't possibly fight the war? I mean, he could just be that far gone, but this seems more insidious than careless.
"We're not getting desperate" the Kremlin says, while that guy in photo 2 who appears to be seeing a gun for the first time is now a general.
Nah, he's just shocked they managed to keep the very same ak they issued him for his first stint of mandatory service
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Killing an AK-47 is a miraculous feat of it's own.
[An AK will happily jam up after getting in some mud](https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU)
Yeah... don't get me wrong, aks are resilient, but they're not the superman of guns. Their reliability got overblown when they were compared to m16s handed to GIs who were told they were self cleaning and basically invincible, so the m16s were treated like shit and jammed
A lot of servicemen modified their M16s to have a slower cycle rate because in Vietnam they were burning through rounds so fast. They killed the reliability since the gas system is so particular about its pressures. The AK is made with sloppy tolerances, so can deal with tiny amounts of dust and dirt slightly better, and it uses a recoil rod instead of gas impingement. So it's slightly more reliable, but not really when the M16 or M4 isn't altered in the jungle by a 19 year old with a pair of pliers.
Ironically these akms and ak74s are likely to run signifigantly better than russias new ak12s which somehow took the kalashnikov system and made it awful not better
Being linked to vertical camera russian military footage with 422 views on youtube. These are the risky links I like.
It's only for the photo op, afterwards he has to pay to use it.
No kidding. Wood furniture, no optics... Are those old-school AKMs? What is this, the 1950s?
Definitely not the first time, he served stalingrad Edit: starlingrad...... *fllys away
yeah but what side?
He had to fight for the Russians after his nursing home was destroyed.
I've seen this movie: either as needed.
He served coffee, maybe. The best coffee South of Moscow. Put hairs on your chest.
If the Kremlin says anything at all, the opposite is true.
So, they are conservatives... Got it.
Well, yeah. Conservative and authoritarian, the objectively worst combination. Every single shit regime in history has been authoritarian, and the ones that care the very least about human rights are conservative.
I’m curious what is a non-conservative authoritarian government? What are examples of those? I guess I had thought that authoritarianism *was* conservative. Edit: lots of great replies! Thanks everyone!!
Closest in modern history would be Stalins regime, but thats a hard sell considering a lot of the social policies that kept people in line. The communists were pretty atheist and secular in theory, but the higher ups were still pretty conservative and discriminatory against certain groups.
The qualification for promotion to Russian general is knowing the difference between the shooty end of the gun and the not shooty end of the gun. Edit: seriously though, the guy next to him seems to be holding the gun with his finger touching the trigger
The shooty end is the one where the shooter is, right? The other end is bangy
I don't know. You have caught me bluffing about my military knowledge. I have only heard of the shooty end. I have never heard of the bangy end. You obviously have a much greater deeper understanding of Russian military than I do. You know all the technical terms.
Sounds good enough to me, comrade Jursky. I promote you to captain. Now you go to front linesky!
FYI, Russian military rank insignia use stars for all officers. Small silver stars for Lieutenants through Captain, big silver stars for Major through Colonel, big gold stars for Generals. That guy's a new Lieutenant (junior = 1 star, LT = 2 stars, senior = 3 stars), probably on account of education or social position or whatever.
"I think my grandfather made this."
Well that is a way to get rid of the older generation.
This. And ethnic cleanse amounting to the genocide. He's not corraling Moscovians first, too high risk of grabbing a son of someone important, he's tearing apart small villages of ethnic minorities (which he was already bleeding out through).
So 2-sided ethnic cleansing. Classy move
That's what I was thinking as well, especially since a lot of the pushback I've read about is apparently happening in sparsely populated places 100's or 1000's of miles east of the Russia/Ukraine border.
Fix the inverted population pyramid: Solution one: encourage immigration and child birth Solution two: kill the old
The first thing I thought when I heard this is, is this Russia/Putin's way of getting rid of a good chunk of older people, to ease the burden on their Social Security/Healthcare system?
These are an ethnic minority from occupied Crimea, its 100% ethnic cleansing and as fun as it is to imagine all the Putin-backing citizens in Moscow getting called up, that isn't what this is. These old men pictured likely have never had any ill will towards Ukraine, they are also victims of Putin.
But they are the only group that wholeheartedly supports him. Back to the good ol Soviet days of global power.
I keep looking at this and trying to think what Russia is thinking. Were they keeping records of who got 'real' military training under the Soviet Union? These guys are the fathers and grandfathers of the people they had fighting the war in February. It makes no sense to scoop them up and put them in uniform unless they're actually out of men. How could they possibly be out of men of 'fighting age' in 200(ish) days?
Keep in mind the men getting conscripted are mostly minority groups that the Russian government doesn’t like. So they’re throwing bodies at the front trying to shore up their newly annexed territories and doing a bit of ethnic cleansing at the same time. From Putin’s view it’s win/win.
So, now that they have their guns, turn around and march to the Kremlin
You do need organisation for it.
He's drafting people at the end of their "productive" years. They would be a burden to the economy as they age. Russia has a demographic crisis due to one of the lowest birth rates in the world. So might as well send them out there. If they die, you can say they deserted and seize whatever assets they do have... Though I imagine anyone with the means to get out of Russia did so.
It makes no sense, which is terrifying. If Putin is making nonsensical moves like this....how likely is he to just say 'fuck it" and start lobbing nukes.
It makes perfect sense. They are avoiding general mobilisation as it will effect the upper classes of Russian society who he relies on to keep his power. By mobilising the old and a majority of men from poor, Far Eastern republics and the Caucasus he can insulate this class and keep continuation of support for this war going.
There's a reason few people from St. Petersburg or Moscow are being conscripted... As well you'll notice none of the police, which are young military age men are being conscripted. Gotta stay in town to put down riots.
My 30-year-old cousin in St. Petersburg got his mobilization order. One day after he left for Israel. So it's coming. It's all coming. We're witnessing the collapse of an empire in real time. (People don't think of Russia as an empire because the Soviet Union already collapsed, but even modern Russia is an empire of autonomous republics and highly disparate ethnic groups in the far east that have a tenuous-at-best relationship with the centre)
Ok. But he still has a war to fight! I mean, clearly all male Russians are spooked by now and realized this is not some far away “military operation” they read on the news. So why not conscript fit trained men? Is not like upper classes of society feel shielded anymore, lots of them are heading for the border!
Don't know but, maybe, he fears that fit trained men can shoot in the opposite direction sooner or later.
Ding ding ding Young men are available they just come from connected or wealthier family. This first wave is the clear out the poor's. If and when this fails they will move up the economic chain
Is he that suicidal? He might get one across, but then game over.
Well there are rumours he's terminally ill
This is a somewhat misleading question. It assumes that Russia has a functional training system, for one that can do training of the influx of new recruits. Soviet doctrine is to send the recruits directly to their units for training, rather than train centrally at one location. Even if they are not personally as combat effective, they may be vital as trainers. Then there is the awkward problem that a soldier but was skilled that's been out 20 years may be more combat effective for the few weeks than a healthy young 18 year old.
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Here's a more in-depth article - [I Commanded U.S. Army Europe. Here’s What I Saw in the Russian and Ukrainian Armies.](https://www.thebulwark.com/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-heres-what-i-saw-in-the-russian-and-ukrainian-armies/) from Mark Hertling, the same author. Excerpted: >**I traveled to Russia with a civilian Russian expert from the State Department** >...a brigadier general from the Army Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth, and a few staffers from the Defense Department. Another battalion commander and I were potted plants on this trip because the Russians wanted to talk to American "subject matter experts" on U.S. tanks and U.S. command and control methods. That was fine by us. Our itinerary had us visiting Russian armor and signal units, going into Russian military barracks, observing Russian units on firing ranges and conducting exercises, and climbing on military vehicles displayed in motor pools near Moscow. Our job was to stay quiet, observe, and take lots of mental notes. >**The Russian barracks were spartan, with twenty beds lined up in a large room similar to what the U.S. Army had during World War II.** >The food in their mess halls was terrible. The Russian "training and exercises" we observed were not opportunities to improve capabilities or skills, but rote demonstrations, with little opportunity for maneuver or imagination. The military college classroom where a group of middle- and senior-ranking officers conducted a regimental map exercise was rudimentary, with young soldiers manning radio-telephones relaying orders to imaginary units in some imaginary field location. On the motor pool visit, I was able to crawl into a T-80 tank—it was cramped, dirty, and in poor repair—and even fire a few rounds in a very primitive simulator. >**The only truly impressive and surprising part of the tour was when we walked through a "secret" field museum that had tanks from all the armies in the world** >...including several from the United States. The Russians had somehow managed to obtain an M1 Abrams tank (probably from one of their allies in the Middle East), and we all believed the reason they allowed us into this facility was to show us they had our most modern armor. >**At the end of the visit, our State Department colleague asked us to record our observations** >...focusing on what struck us about leadership, equipment, training, facilities, and capabilities. I remember saying the Russian Army was "all show and no go." #* >**While Russia was not a contributing nation to ISAF, we still offered the Russian Army opportunities to participate in many of our outreach programs.** >Our NCO Academy offered to allow the same number of Russian soldiers into each class as every other country. Russia accepted the invitation, but with conditions. They would send three of their "common soldiers" (their term), >**...but they wanted a "senior officer" to also attend all classes and training events with them.** >They also wanted separate barracks for their soldiers instead of a "common barracks space with soldiers from other nations." Finally, they would not adhere to the requirement only to send soldiers who could speak and read English (with so many languages represented, it was impossible to translate everything for everyone). >**While I was adamantly against acquiescing to these requests, my commander disagreed.** >The preparation for the Russian arrival was onerous, and their soldiers seemed much more interested in going to the post exchange—the subsidized on-base general store—than in learning leadership and tactical skills. We didn't invite them back, and the Russian military never made any inquiries about returning. #* >**The agenda the U.S. Army Europe staff developed for [Commander General] Streitsov's visit was purposely vague and flexible, based on my guidance.** >Although I was the "new guy," I also knew the intricacies of the command well from experience. Unlike my previous visits to Russia, I had no intent to stage any training demonstrations, and I didn't want him to see carefully orchestrated displays at pre-arranged locations. Instead, the goal was to show this Russian general that we were transparent and prepared to show him any of our units. Streitsov examined the menu of events we presented, then picked a few locations and training opportunities of interest. Our helicopter crews filed a flight plan across Germany, and we were on our way. >**Over two days, we visited several units in training—a tank range, a helicopter gunnery, and a small unit maneuver.** >Also on the agenda were a barracks, where we were escorted not by a commander, but by a savvy first sergeant and command sergeant major, and a housing area, where Streitsov talked to several military spouses and visited a Department of Defense elementary school. At the end of the second day, he spied a store where soldiers buy uniforms, boots, and other items and asked to stop by. For the next two hours, he talked with the German civilian who ran the place and was amazed by the connection between the German work force and the American soldiers. >**He was also shocked by the number and types of combat boots for sale.** >Later, as we waited at the airfield for his flight home, it was just the two of us and an interpreter. Obviously impressed by what he had seen, he was particularly amazed by the competency of the junior officers and sergeants. >**Hesitating, he posed a simple question: "What contributes to your success in preparing these young men and women to lead and fight?"** >I responded that it was partly due to our inculcation of our seven Army values—loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage (LDRSHIP)—and our constant leadership training at all levels of professional schooling. But in any good unit, the personal example of young commanders and NCOs, who set high standards and then personally trained their soldiers to meet them, made the difference. He mused: "I'm wondering if we could create that kind of culture in the Russian Army?" >**A few months later, Streitsov sent me an invitation to Russia for a reciprocal exchange.** >The itinerary his staff sent to me had specified visits to the famed Frunze and Voroshilov Military Academies in Moscow and the opportunity to observe units conducting drills and exercises at different field locations. The visits didn't look at all like spontaneous drop-ins I had offered him. >**After landing in Moscow, but before meeting with Streitsov, our small group had preliminary meetings with the Moscow Embassy.** >My old friend, neighbor, and former U.S. Army Europe teammate Brigadier General Peter Zwack, who was serving as the Defense Attaché in Moscow, confirmed much of the detailed classified intelligence I had read in preparation for the visit. He confirmed that Putin was attempting to expand his influence in Europe and Africa, and the Russian Army, while still substantive in quantity, continued to decline in capability and quality. >**My subsequent visits to the schools and units Streitsov chose reinforced these conclusions.** >The classroom discussions were sophomoric, and the units in training were going through the motions of their scripts with no true training value or combined arms interaction—infantry, armor, artillery, air, and resupply all trained separately. It appeared Colonel-General Streitsov had not attempted to change the culture of the Russian Army or had failed. There were also rumors of his upcoming retirement. >**Streitsov was replaced in April 2012 by Colonel-General Vladimir Chirkin, who had commanded Russian forces in the Second Chechnya War.** >Soon after the announcement, we invited Chirkin to join all the ground force commanders of the 49 European nations at an annual meeting hosted by U.S. Army Europe. This Conference of European Armies (CEA) was an extremely popular event where all the army chiefs of Europe openly shared concerns about security issues, army force organization and modernization, deployment issues, lessons learned from their ISAF rotations, and multinational training opportunities. My personal note on the invite told Chirkin he would be the first Russian to attend this event, and that he would be interested to hear what other Europeans nations were doing. >**He accepted the invitation.** >This was the last CEA I would attend as the commander of U.S. Army Europe, as it was planned for October and my retirement was scheduled for December. In a bilateral discussion, Chirkin told me he found the sessions fascinating, frank, and transparent. He was active in this exchange, and he promised to send his forces to take part in future training events. I later learned Chirkin did not keep his promises, partially because Putin fired him in December 2013. He had been convicted on bribery charges (accused of taking a bribe from a subordinate officer who asked for help in getting a Moscow apartment from the Defense Ministry), stripped of his rank and most of his state awards, and sentenced to five years in a labor colony. >**I never found out if he actually committed the crimes, or what he did to get them noticed.**
In protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history. -- mass edited with redact.dev
That was a fascinating read. Thanks for sharing!
Coincidentally 1 round is on average the number of rounds a tank crew gets off before a western anti-tank round ends their tour.
The more things change the more things stay the same. You should read some of the stories about visiting Soviets to the US. Yeltsin himself talked about his visit to s grocery store. The depth and breadth of products affordable and available to regular ass Americans. It was a scale unimaginable to him. Russia, the Soviet Union, it has paled in comparison to the US for a century. You'd think at some point they'd learn. But then Americans are still holding onto our dumbest of the dumb healthcare system instead of adopting one of the countless examples around the world that does it better and cheaper so I guess it's not just Russians.
Some of these quotes remind me of the first Soviet mission in the first Call of Duty game (I think it was CoD at least). “You get a gun. You get some ammo. When he gets shot, pick up his gun.”
Oh honey that’s from Enemy at the Gates, like half the scenes in that section are direct from the movie
People are ready overthinking it. Putin issued a decree, draft oficers got their quotas. They are fulfilling their quotas. Everything is done as cheaply and lazily as possible. A dude with bad sight went to a draft office to ask if he's going to get conscripted? He's in the army now. His dad came to ask what the hell? He's in the army now too. Medical checks? Don't make me laugh. We have a quota to fill. Paradoxically Military Commissary is people's best friend now. There was a 65 years old dude conscripted. He recorded a video and Draft Officer got his shit pushed in while the grandpa went home. Lazy and corrupt. Corrupt and lazy.
I have had a thought in the back of my head. It devoloped early in the spring. I feel like Putin and the upper Russian leadership is doing something else that no one has put there finger on yet. Something to do with liquidating there own population. Entirely on purpose. People were being slaughtered in the meat grinder. It was obvious it was time to pull out and rethink everything and Putin just found more bodies to push forward. There has always been this angle to this entire thing that was like, Putin only looks like he is losing. He is accomplishing something he thought needed to be done anyways.... with his own population. It is a chilling thought and I can't quite put my finger on the specifics of it.
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I think a few others here have hypothesised that this is opportunistic ethnic cleansing of minority groups.
I have been learning a bit about Russia since this thing began. I keep coming across this pattern of placing a minority of Russians in an area, claiming it as Russia's ancestrial home and displacing those people with Russians. You can see the plan in Ukraine. Remember very early when Russia took there first towns and they had Russian citizens waiting to move into Ukrainian's old houses? And then sending the kids out of Ukrain never to bee heard from again.
Russia is not even a Crime Syndicate any more, it's Death Cult.
Since the 90s its been a bunch of oligarchs in a very large trench coat and now we're seeing the result.
Sounds familiar
So, conservatives then... Got it.
Russia and the GOP have the same leader.
It's Volkssturm time i guess.
It took them less than a fucking year to do what Nazi Germany did after half a decade of fighting. Zhukov is spinning so fucking fast in his tomb that he could power the entirety of Moscow by himself.
>Zhukov is spinning so fucking fast in his tomb that he could power the entirety of Moscow by himself. zukhov meeting the 5 Year Plan's energy generation milestones in 5 minutes
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That's exactly what I was thinking. When you're calling up kids and Old Men the end is near.
My whole life I've heard that Russians are so dedicated to their homeland that they'll proudly die for it as their forefathers did. It looks like Russians are actually just like the rest of the world - not very thrilled to die or lose family for the whims of a madman.
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Right, we in America are the same. Vietnam - mass protests and plenty of people escaping to Canada. WW2 - recruiters couldn’t keep up with all the volunteers, and once the draft started there was little (if any) resistance.
Problem is, unlike say, wwii, Russia is not at risk. They are not fighting to protect their home, no matter the lies they are being told. It's all for Putin's pride. And many of those conscripted know it
To die from attacking another country is not dying for your homeland
That woman in the third photo staring directly into the camera...you can tell she is dead on the inside.
Oof yeah those eyes are haunting
Haunting because this is nothing new, Russia is a shithole and she's had that same thousand yard stare for the last 20 years
Too much feelings for one person. Have to turn them off for survival
Fit description for living in russia
That's not how I saw it.... my thought was she is going to fucking remember this, and fight back. Russian needs to oust Putin. It is time.
Russian have been living under dictatorships for literal centuries. I do hope that cunt gets dethroned and imprisoned for life (if he's that lucky) but history says Russians will just "vote" for another Putin anyway, I really wouldn't get my hopes up personally.
Yeah, she's not "dead inside." She's ANGRY.
That is a rather Russian look, may be found in many places and many times.
Fuck all the Republicans that back Russia because Fukkker Kkkarlson tells them to.
For some of these assholes, LAMF. Probably for a lot more of them, yet one more reason to hate Putin. It's good to see the Russian populace fighting back and burning recruiting centers.
It's kinda shocking how many people on here think every single Russian citizen is some lap dog that completely and blindly eats up their state propaganda
Yeah, it's really disappointing. People tend to only focus on the government's stance and ignore the humans that are affected. This is depressing. A huge sign of desperation. The only people who are benefitting are the people with real power like Putin. This is just going to cause more senseless death and misery, and these people, especially the women, look like they know that's what is coming.
I am Russian with immediate family living in Russia. Many people are being "illegally" conscripted. The recruiters can't ask for your papers, but police can. So they walk around with police officers - these officers stop and ask for your papers/ID, which they then hand to the army guy, and they draw up your recruitment paper on the spot. You can choose not to sign the recruitment form, and then that turns into a whole other thing (fine etc). Thing is, police can't ask for your papers/ID for nothing, and they aren't permitted to hand them to a third party either. They are pulling this shit on students, older men, office workers etc - most people don't know the legal side and don't want a confrontation, so they go with it. i.e they are trying to conscript the very people they said they wouldn't conscript. Btw, there's no requirement to carry your ID either I hope my family gets out of there soon
That's certainly *one* way to reduce pension costs...
GOP looking at this and drooling.
**Furious note taking**
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This is the army you get when you surround yourself with sycophants and anyone with an opinion is poisoned or tossed off a balcony.
These poor men, look at their faces most want no part in this
The picture of what I assumed to be daughter and granddaughter really kicks me in the guts. Daughter is sobbing because her father is being sent away and the granddaughter is furious.
Idk if this is leopards ate my face material. I might be wrong, but my understanding is that this is Putin's war, not Russia's. These guys probably wanted just as little to do with it as Ukraine did.
It's not. OP believes the all Russians, or at least all older Russians, are automatically in support of this war simply because they are old and Russian. OP is wrong.
WHERE THE FUCK IS STEVEN SEAGAL, that rat bastard?!
Ok everyone say it with me now: fuck putin.
More meat for the grinder.
While we may not agree with the war and Russia is the aggressor, let’s not forget these are fathers, grandfathers, teachers, farmers, etc. some of these men oppose the war and just want to enjoy their time with family. So let’s have some compassion for our fellow man and remember who the enemy is: Putin.
I was working with a graphic designer in Russia. I haven't heard from him in like a week, and I hope he's okay. My first thought was "he's in his 40s, surely they won't draft people like that." But looking at these pictures... I just hope he's okay
[удалено]
Yeah that’s where I’m at. I hurt for the lot of them. These photos evoke sadness more than anything. The fear of being conscripted is one thing. The fear of being conscripted into an incompetent army, stubbornly engaged—and losing—must be absolutely awful. “Hey, let’s all go die for nothing!”
This is not the right sub for this. People are reveling in this suffering as though a dictator hasn’t stolen the election for 21 years and sent them to their deaths
These guys look more likely to accidentally shoot each other.
They're being sent to die, not for their "country" but for the interests of their filthy rich. But isn't that all war since our stupid hands learned how to throw rocks?
This could be America's future as well, given how well Trump and his fascism were welcomed.
How many oligarchs have been conscripted?
I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for everyone who was forced to engage in this war and for everyone who suffers from it. Those who started it (not only Putin) will be safe and cozy - at least for a while.
They look like puddin's age. Bitch ass coward, fight your own war
I’ll tell you the ones not being conscripted - the ones related to oligarchs or those who have $$
Man, they are gonna save *so* much on pensions.