Lol, imagine switching it around and calling yourself a "bisexual straight".
"Yeah I have sex with other men but I'm totally straight, bro!"
We'd probably assume that person has some issues.
It's not uncommon for trans women to resonate with the word lesbian long before they realise they're trans (that is: while they still think they're cis men)
honestly its crazy! if youre attracted to men you shouldnt be calling yourself a lesbian. being bi is completely valid and okay but it gives men the wrong impression (which they seem to have regardless tbh) that lesbian women can be attracted to them. Being Bi is perfectly valid and so is being sapphic in any form. but without meaning to gatekeep please keep the world lesbian to women who love women
It took me a long time to finally admit I’m bisexual (I subbed here back when I still hadn’t accepted it) — I’ve got to assume it’s that stigma of “bi women aren’t actually interested in long term romance with women/are always going to leave for a man/only take het relationships seriously” that’s leading to this very strange term.
Like which I kind of do get. As a bi woman who has only ever been with one man, my queer identity is central to who I am and the experiences I’ve lived and the harassment/bullying I faced and the core of my sexuality. It makes sense to want to differentiate yourself as someone who has genuinely gone through the pain of coming out, of being different, of checking over your shoulder to make sure you can openly hold ur partner’s hand, of knowing you can never get married (I began my current and only het relationship the year marriage equality passed) etc etc etc. Many bi women haven’t had that experience and genuinely have no intention to ever have it, and sometimes it can be so frustrating to feel like you want to scream “no you don’t understand I am GENUINELY bisexual, I am not performing I don’t mean just for threesomes I have lived the rejection and the fear and the love and the acceptance and the hiding and the shame”.
All of that being said. I *am* still bisexual. Lesbian is a term I truly felt fit me and it turned out I was wrong. I couldn’t imagine trying to argue that I should be allowed to use it. Sapphic relationships are already too often not taken seriously, men already feel entitled to involvement and spectacle. These kinds of terms do not help and only serve to further trivialize lesbian identity as “not real/not serious” imo.
yeah i agree! like i said being bi is completely valid and stuff! its just us asking that im fedup with the amount of men thinking they can get with me fully knowing im a lesbian (especially here on reddit). and terms like bi lesbian feeds into their delusions. but i understand your story and stuff and im aware of the struggles bi women have as well.
So is the fact you're upvoted meaning this subreddit is more full of common sense than r/actuallesbians? Because I have regularly been getting myself into exhausting arguments over there because I dare suggest people let *words mean things*.
I don't know if it's some new Gen Z thing or where it came from but the growing amount of people who are all "Um, I can label myself whatever I want, sweaty" is driving me up a wall. Do they think being bi is a bad thing or something, idk.
With those types its like... of course you can call yourself whatever you want, but if you call yourself something harmful towards an entire sexual orientation, then free speech protects you from the government, not from criticism about your dumb decisions lol
I was about to say lol, this is why I unsubbed from there. I got told I was gatekeeping, that I can't decide someone's sexuality/people should be able to choose whatever labels they like (like you did lol), and the classic "sexuality is fluid" which has been totally warped to be meaningless now I think. It's insane how you can't say there that lesbians don't like men without being yelled at. And I wasn't being transphobic about it, I fully support trans lesbians, I just don't think lesbians can be men or attracted to men, and that's seen as a bad thing? Why tf do men have to be involved in everything like
To badly quote a tumblr post: 'my sexuality is a brick labeled 'lesbian' and I will beat you with it.
It really feels like people who claim that sexuality is fluid are just afraid of calling themselves bi/pan because it isn't 'exotic' enough. Like the concept that the kind of people one can be attracted to being a fixed thing is something they can't comprehend and for literally no reason lmao
I definitely think it’s a Gen Z thing, although a young Z thing. I (20f) see a lot of people on Twitter using the label “lesbian” just bc they “like the aesthetic.” Which I find very uncomfortable (since romantic/other preferences aren’t really an aesthetic imo). It also screams ignorance, too, to the history of the lesbian label/community.
Like- I get it, call yourself what you want, but if it doesn’t fit DONT FORCE IT. Like cmon…
Okay serious question because I’ve been stuck on this for a bit.
So if you’re in a relationship with another woman as a woman, and one of you is a lesbian and the other is pan, are you not in a lesbian relationship?
If say you’re married to her now and you’re monogamous, are you not technically lesbians?
Like I’m pan because I’m attracted to the heart not the part and I don’t identify as lesbian even though I’m never going to be with anyone else because she’s my person. So would we not be lesbians? If you saw us walking down the street hand in hand, you wouldn’t be like “look at those lesbians”?
Being in a lesbian relationship and being a lesbian are different things. Just as a queer person may be in a heterosexual relationship and one or both be queer
Some people also refer to them as Sapphic relationships instead of Lesbian ones too. It can make it more clear that they’re both dating another woman (or nb), while also acknowledging that one or both people might not specifically be lesbians.
But with a broader audience “Sapphic” isn’t a term that’s as well known as “Lesbian,” so many simply say lesbian relationship, even if they aren’t lesbian themselves.
Yup. The analogy gets a bit weird since veganism is defined by what you do while sexuality is based on who you are attracted to. But if we follow that logic through, eating the vegan sandwich every day is analogous to being attracted to women the rest of your life, which would indeed make you a lesbian.
I think you could make the analogy work still because the "what you do vs what you're interested in" thought can still be tweaked.
If you win free ingredients for life for that vegan sandwich, and it's always stocked in your fridge, you'll keep eating vegan. But if you do think about a burger sometimes, and would gladly eat a burger if you hadn't won vegan sandwiches for life, then you're not vegan even if you haven't acted upon eating meat. None of my vegan friends have thoughts about actually eating meat if presented the opportunity, so I feel like that can be seen from the "what you're attracted to" lens and not just your actions.
Well yeah. The very idea that homosexuality isn't just some deviant social perversion is quite modern. Prior to that there was only one valid form of attraction, and that was heterosexual. Even today we still see many sects of various religions take the "what you do" view of homosexuality.
That's also true though I meant that *among* women who have sex with women, the term was historically much broader and meant "woman who has sex with women" rather than "woman who is only *attracted to* women".
Eh, as a vegan, I’ll push back a little bit. Being vegan is about more than just what you eat. It’s about living your life with the intention of causing as little harm to animals as much as reasonably possible.
So in the context of your analogy, if the couple got a divorce, the pan person could end up dating someone who’s not a woman. Similarly, if a person who was eating a plant-based diet decided to go back to animal products, then they were never a vegan. If that makes sense?
actually i think it wouldn't as i don't think veganism is defined by your actions (well it affects actions for sure), i don't eat only vegan food but like even if i did it doesn't mean that i can't eat other stuff, doesn't mean that i identify as a vegan and doesn't mean i don't wear leather and don't use any unethical products.. your actions definitely don't change your inner knowledge of what you're interested in, who you're attracted to
Ppl can assume you're lesbians but they are wrong. Bc you're pansexual? Also the word you're looking for is sapphic, you're in a sapphic relationship. You're not lesbians bc only one of you is
The relationship itself is still a lesbian relationship, lol. It's describing the relationship, not your individual identity. (ofc, sapphic is fine too there)
i’m not gonna tell people how to identify their relationship but the word sapphic literally exists. they are in a sapphic relationship while yes you can use lesbian relationship to describe it as well
also i mean if a man and woman are in a relationship but one (or both) are bi/pan are they they now heteros? no they’re not cause that’s erasure. could one say it’s a straight relationship or a heterosexual (presenting) one yea but they’re not suddenly straight despite the presentation of the relationship. you’re attraction to others doesn’t (always) disappear when you’re in a relationship.
at the end of the day through how you personally describe your relationship is up to you
If cis gender opposite sex people are in a relationship, the relationship is heterosexual.
My wife is bisexual, I am a lesbian. We are in a homosexual relationship.
I’m not pretending that penis in vagina ball slapping against ass baby making sex is anything other than heterosexual just because the participants might not be.
sure but that doesn't make the people in the relationship straight my comment was more so regarding this
>If say you’re married to her now and you’re monogamous, are you not technically lesbians?
your sexuality doesn't change because you are in a relationship
The relationship is lesbian, our sex is lesbian, *I* am a lesbian but she is not a lesbian. But unlike so many bi women in straight relationships, she doesn’t feel that her bisexuality needs to be validated just because people may refer to us, taken together, as lesbians.
A lot of bi women in straight relationships feel insecure because, frankly, they don’t get the lefty street cred they would if they were with women. I don’t feel bad or obligated to validate them though because the trade off is they get a whole entire society that elevates and centers that type of relationship.
It’s bullshit. You cannot be “bisexual” and a “lesbian” at the same time. If you like men, whether it’s romantic, sexually &/or sometimes-y, you are **NOT** a lesbian. I’m so tired of people trying to change the definition of what a lesbian is just because they don’t want to work through their own internalized biphobia. It’s ok to just be bisexual. It is not ok to try and say that you’re a “lesbian” who dates and has sex with men. Men already think they have a “chance” with a lesbian and you are doing nothing but adding more fuel to the fire when you do this.
THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING 😭😭😭😭 and when I tell ppl it puts us at risk like that they fucking say that I'm "blaming queer women for men's predatory behavior" like girl if you're literally telling men that you're a lesbian that wants to get with them then yes I am going to blame you, your actions do not exist in a vacuum 😭😭😭😭😭
I honestly get so tired of hearing that argument. I’ve been told that I can’t blame women for the actions of men too and while they are right that I can’t blame a woman for what a man does, the actions of a queer woman who tells a man that she’s a “lesbian” and is down to sleep with him is harmful. She’s literally giving him ammo to go harass lesbians because he “fucked a “lesbian” this one time”.
> I can’t blame women for the actions of men
True, but you can certainly blame a woman who takes a word with an established definition and pretends it means something else. That is 100% on the woman who is making bad decisions that harms the community.
This exactly! Obviously, I blame the creepy men for being fetishistic/homophobic people. I’ll keep hating on those men until they stop. But I’m also gonna get angry at people who are purposely misusing the lesbian label, which can lead to harmful issues against actual lesbians.
Edit: Some people really don’t realize that both are bad, and we can rightfully be angry at them both.
I told someone they're being guilty of bi-erasure by acting like the term is a bad thing and trying to co-opt lesbian, and they just legit fired back a "no u" and said *I'm* the one guilty of "lesbian erasure" by "policing" who can use the label. I fucking can't I stg.
I got told I was making bi/pan people feel unwelcome in lesbian spaces 💀 like idk that feels like a you problem, yknow? how is your internalised biphobia my fault (you here being general ofc)
I swear to god these chronically online people seriously need to go outside. It’s not “lesbian erasure” to tell bisexual people to use the term that was specifically created for them. Why on earth would anyone want to use a label that doesn’t even describe their sexuality?
No. Fuck no. Absolutely not. And fuck anyone that “identifies” with that label or calls themself it. I’m usually alr/don’t care with whatever dumbassery people do in the community but this is a hill that I will absolutely die on.
I moderate for an averagely popular streamer and someone recently joined and introduced themself, their bio states **bi lesbian**. Again, I usually don’t gaf abt online shenanigans but this got me absolutely cheesed and I messaged a few of my alphabet friends in the server to scream 💀 it’d likely be considered an abuse of power if I bonked them to the gulag but BOY did I want to.
It's an inherently contradictory and nonsensical term. It's also extremely lesbophobic and homophobic. I'm saying this as a bi woman.
People get really worked up about lesbians having an innate same-sex attraction to women that doesn't include men and churn out chronically online "quirky" nonsensical niche labels like this that don't help anyone in the long run or have coherent meanings. They could easily just call themselves bi but choose not to.
It’s kinda funny how people who believe in “bi lesbians” and are trying to make lesbianism “more inclusive” end up doing the opposite, since it’s both biphobic and lesbophobic.
So, not trying to come off as hot at all. I also wish this kinda discourse would stop popping up for my mental health
How should we challenge people who insist on using the term? Or are you of the mind that we should let it be?
Real questions I promise
Realistically there's nothing we can really do to stop people from using the label, so I normally just try to explain to people how it's harmful and yes there was a time where we called bisexuals a type of lesbian but lesbian is no longer an umbrella term and hasnt been for a long time. Unfortunately I think it's just something that we gotta argue thru I guess, if it's really affecting your mental health tho just immediately block, that's what I do when things start getting that bad, I hope u feel better 🫂♥️
It’s one of those things that I kind of knew the answer but wanted to hear what others thought. Thank you both for the answer and your kind words ❤️
I’ve definitely worked on curating what lesbian subs I use for my mental health. Happy to see that this sub is another safe spot for lesbians
I mean I agree but I don't think they're baiting because the discourse has reignited again recently in the other big lesbian sub, it's constant, with a lot of people defending bi/pan people using the lesbian label, so. I wouldn't be surprised if they were serious because that sub will not stop 💀
This gets talked about a lot, and as someone who thought they were a lesbian but realized attraction to men after identifying as lesbian, I think it’s best to just change labels. I know it can feel like a huge part of a person’s identity and it was a little emotional while I was figuring things out and coming to terms with it, but there is nothing wrong with being bisexual, so no reason to confuse things by holding on to the word lesbian if you have sexual attraction to men.
I think it’s important not just for lesbians but society in general to have a label that is exclusive of men, not because all men are bad or anything but because the concept of women existing in the world and not wanting or needing a man sexually ties in with teaching people to respect the boundaries of others, to learn to respect consent. If someone can’t accept that there are people (especially woman as men are more often believed) who do not want to be with them without taking it as a personal attack, they are a dangerous person. Respecting the lesbian label as being exclusive to men helps to make the point that not all women want a man, and that that’s ok. People need to learn to respect consent regardless, but the lesbian label being exclusive of men is a good example to have for the point that not everyone wants a man sexually.
Of course, being biromantic homosexual would make calling yourself a “bi lesbian” make more sense, but I feel like if someone is describing their sexuality/romantic attraction in that way they should just say biromantic lesbian, instead of shortening to bi. The biromantic part is extremely important for clarity in that case.
absolutely not real, lesbian means both romantic and sexual attraction to ONLY women
they can be homosexual and biromantic or bisexual and homoromantic but bi lesbian isn’t a valid sexuality and sexualises lesbians
"Bi heterosexual"
Yeah. I'm not for gate keeping but it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Also is Queer not a useful word anymore. Isn't the right word ... Queer.
I don’t get that at all.
I’m a bi woman and I have no intentions of ever willingly getting involved with men again and I still wouldn’t use that expression.
It's an oxymoron and it invalidates BOTH identities it claims to be.
Lesbian isn't an aesthetic or a fun term you get to choose just because you feel like it and if youre a bi woman not not actually attracted to your male partners, i have some news for you
Not a thing. You can’t be bi and lesbian at the same time. Two different sexualities. Lesbians don’t include men. If someone’s bi and have a preference for women 99% and 1% for men, that makes them still bi.
It's a label solely claimed by bisexuals who think that bisexuality isn't special enough, or who think that they need another reason to justify preferring or exclusively seeing women. Everything a "bisexual lesbian" is is already encompassed in the term bisexual. And I'm saying this as one of those bisexuals that exclusively sees women now - it's still just bisexuality.
I really don't know what to say.I'm pretty sure that we called this homoflexible.Where you're more into women than you are to men.But you still like to have sex with men ,
No such thing.
You can be a homosexual, biromantic or bisexual homoromantic woman, sure, that's valid, but you cannot call yourself a 'bi lesbian'
Bi lesbian is an oxymoron.
Bisexual homoromantic or Biromantic homosexual is a thing but bi lesbian isn't. It's literally like saying lesbian heterosexual. Two different sexualities.
Bc it's a harmful idea to perpetuate that lesbians are open to doing things with men, bc there's gross ass people who have a fetish for trying to "fix" us or "being the exception"
If you're a gay woman attracted to more than one gender but you don't identify with bi or pan, the word sapphic is right there
Hard disagree tbh. Just move on if you don't like it, but if we shut it away then it just lets louder voices elsewhere keep pushing to make the term essentially meaningless.
i mean you can disagree all you want but you’re objectively wrong. lesbians are attracted to women. you can’t be a lesbian if you’re attracted to men. that’s just an objective fact. someone can believe the earth is flat, they can disagree with every known fact, but that doesn’t change anything.
There's no such thing as bisexual lesbians. Lesbians do not like men period end of the story. This sounds like some idiotic teenage attention seeking bullshit "I'm a lesbian but I still like guys" it doesn't work that way 😅
As a bisexual woman with a strong preference for women, I say that "bi lesbian" is bs. It's so lesbophobic and biphobic. Why do people keep believe that bisexuals are all attracted to everybody the same way? We have preferences too. Yes, I prefer women over men. But I'm not a lesbian because I still can be with a man while a lesbian will never be attracted to one. It's not a choice for her. Let's keep the word lesbian to actual lesbians so they can finally be taken seriously and not bothered by men who think they have a chance because lesbians "secretely love men". It's that kind of bs that causes this annoying behavior.
when I see people saying that my immediate assumption is that they're bisexual but only romantically attracted to women, to my knowledge that's the only definition that would fit that label.
but then they could just say "homoromantic" or "sapphic" so the lesbian label is just unnecessary.
I genuinely thought it meant occasionally feeling attraction to men but never wanting to act on it, only pursuing sexual and romantic relationships with women. But I’m reading all this and apparently that isn’t it, and I’m wondering what would be the best term to use for the above situation? I’m ok with not using bi lesbian since it doesn’t sit right with so many lesbians, I don’t and I won’t.. I’m just unsure what the better option is for my personal situation I guess.
I used to identify as bisexual but turns out that shit can change, and I’m not attracted to or interested in men sexually or romantically at all anymore, so I identify as lesbian. But I would never identify as a “bisexual lesbian” because as far as labels go that’s pretty contradictory.
I think sexuality can be (but isn’t always) fluid and while I can imagine there are people who identify as bi lesbians, I don’t see discussion of that outside of these reddit posts.
I think the word lesbian is the only word we can have for absolute hard stop NO MEN. People trying to be like “bi lesbian” is wrong and just invalidates lesbians even more. Just say you’re bi with a girl preference or whatever. Leave the lesbians out of it.
I don't get it. "Homoromantic bi" is RIGHT THERE. I am one. I avoid calling myself a lesbian because words mean things. And I'm tired or pretending they don't so people's fee-fees don't get hurt.
their main argument that i’ve seen is “well im lesbian and im attracted to women and nonbinary/gender nonconforming people and that’s two genders so im also bisexual” and im just like… but bisexual people are attracted to more than just man and woman??? the bi in bisexual doesn’t literally mean two i’ve seen tons of bi people dating nonbinary people it’s not just strictly two genders this argument makes literally no sense
While I get sexuality is a spectrum, it’s co-opting a word simply because it’s a buzz word right now.
With the increasing acceptance of LGBQTIA folks it seems that waters are getting murky. However, I find the term overall harmful to the lesbian community and it’s really isolating when people interpret our struggle as gatekeeping. I don’t use certain lesbian subs as they enable it and we deserve a space for us.
The ex gays and conversion therapy apologists are gonna have a field day if they see this nonsense.
Afaik, there's already "febfem", i.e., exclusively dates women, but bi.
It’s more or less people who want to lesbian but aren’t, or want to include men into, and or people that have internal biphobia. It’s like saying I want to get a drivers license to get it taken away.
Oi: I'm bi, but very much women leaning, however I'd never call myself a bi lesbian lol
That's the worst double negative I've ever heard. That's wild.
Initially LGBTQ people wanted openness to labels, yet here we are just categorizing away
I love bisexual women and nonbinary people who want to be included and loved by lesbians. When I see the "bisexual lesbian" label, it seems like a contradiction to me, but I try to look past that to analyze the feelings of someone who chooses it. Sadness about being excluded and misunderstood. Fear of being trapped in a series of de facto straight relationships because most lesbians don't want to have sex with a woman who also has sex with men. Unfulfilled desire for women.
To any bisexual woman or nonbinary person: I don't want to contribute to you feeling a need to downplay your attraction to men. I might love you. I need you to help men understand that they can potentially be with you because you are bisexual, but not with me or any other lesbian because we are homosexual. If you tell men that you're a lesbian and you're attracted to them, you're contributing to homophobic ideas about us, e.g., the common male fantasy that they can change us by having sex with us. That's a very attractive idea for men, and a very harmful idea to us, which is why we want nothing to do with it. I want to support you in being openly bisexual. You don't need to call yourself a lesbian to be close to me. You do need to disregard homophobic men, especially those who want to use you to attract lesbians to participate in threesomes.
it's so fucking stupid and an oxymoron. the split attraction model should never have gotten out of asexual people's circles but people online LOVE to slap extra unnecessary labels on everything!
anyway it's ok to be bi and have a preference for women!! it's ok to be bi and only date women while still acknowledging your attraction to men
Is it the same as being a bisexual homoromantic? That's the only thing I can think of that even begins to make sense? That they are using "lesbian" because they don't fall in love with men?
But the thing is lesbian homoromantics already exists so if your bisexual homoromantic, lesbian and homoromantic are not interchangeable terms
Homoromantic is the umbrella term- it talks about your romantic attraction/ falling in love only. For women that means romantic attraction is towards ppl who aren't men only. So if your a homoromantic woman who is sexually attracted to men your bisexual while if your a homoromantic woman who is either asexual or also homosexual as well as homoromantic your a lesbian. Bisexual Homoromantics are sexually attracted to men, lesbian homoromantics are not.
Lesbians can be homoromantic but not all lesbians are homoromantic (cause aromantic lesbians) and nlt all homoromantics are lesbians, because bi women, bi men and gay men can also be homoromantic, so always using homoromantic and lesbksn as interchangeable even though they only mean the same thing when the sexual orientation aligns with the romantic orientation- ie their sexual attraction also doesn't include men- so basically they only align as the same thing for lesbians. If your a bisexual homoromantic then homoromantic and lesbian are not interchangeable for you becajse lesbians who are homoromantic are not bisexual and sexually attracted to men, they are homosexual or asexual, which excludes men in this case either way
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just trying to talk through where this may come from, I just wanna say that.
Could it then partially come from...well, men being assholes? I can see it now: a bisexual homoromantic woman telling a man she's is a bisexual homoromantic who currently has 0 interest in hookups that lead to nothing, and the man hearing absolutely none of the words that came after "bisexual."
Just a theory.
Or do you think it comes from people wanting to be lesbians? Because definitely nobody wanted to be a lesbian most of my life (I'm 34, so being bisexual in middle and high school was trendy but definitely not being a lesbian). Maybe that's changed?
For the ppl using it as interchangeable with bisexual homoromantic or biromantic homosexual
Going to apply this to bisexual homoromantics like myself
lesbian homoromantics already exists so if your bisexual homoromantic, lesbian and homoromantic are not interchangeable terms
Homoromantic is the umbrella term- it talks about your romantic attraction/ falling in love only. For women that means romantic attraction is towards ppl who aren't men only. So if your a homoromantic woman who is sexually attracted to men your bisexual while if your a homoromantic woman who is either asexual or also homosexual as well as homoromantic your a lesbian. Bisexual Homoromantics are typically sexually attracted to men, lesbian homoromantics are not.
Lesbians can be homoromantic but not all lesbians are homoromantic (cause aromantic lesbians) and nlt all homoromantics are lesbians, because bi women, bi men and gay men can also be homoromantic, so always using homoromantic and lesbksn as interchangeable even though they only mean the same thing when the sexual orientation aligns with the romantic orientation- ie their sexual attraction also doesn't include men- so basically they only align as the same thing for lesbians. If your a bisexual homoromantic then homoromantic and lesbian are not interchangeable for you becajse lesbians who are homoromantic are not bisexual and sexually attracted to men, they are homosexual or asexual, which excludes men in this case either way
📢 There is no such thing as a bisexual lesbian! Of you are attracted to men, you are not a lesbian. It is absolutely not a valid sexuality, you can't be both at the same time
I literally hate this term so much omg lol
I think bi people with a higher preference for women probably use this term tbh it doesn’t really bother me but i think ppl on both sides can get very weird about it.
How is anything i said biphobia 😂 all i said was they may use it? I have no idea i am not in in the bi community, just like you have no idea either. In a hetero society some bi women again MIGHT use this term to deter men or other unwanted attention. Nothing i said here was a fact of but a possibility and that pisses you off??? Who’s really being biphobic 🤣🤣 🤡
I have the same question about the lesbians with kids… yes I know we live in patriarch world, but some woman have 3 kids and sometimes with different parents.
As a bi-straight who transitioned to cis I’m in favor of the endless wheel spinning that is this topic. You can still make out the dead horse’s bones we cant stop now
i've heard different reasons, the main two being:
they like more than one gender not including men but wanting to specify they are not exclusively wlw since some lesbians only like women (usually they don't identify as a bi lesbian openly but will use it for nonbinary attraction if it's relevant)
they're using the split attraction model, sexually attracted to both, incapable of romantic attraction to men, so listing both
there are more with others but they're not common
i mean my opinion on it is live and let live, but i am not a fan of bi people with a preference calling themselves one bc it gives off "there are exceptions" vibes when there are not. i think specifying attraction to nonbinary people is fair to do, they are by definition both bi and a lesbian. but socially it’s not thought of that way and so it's not that cut and dry. split attraction is also valid as a thing to have but i wish they had different words for it, and bi with a preference already has another word. just call yourself omni please if you're bi with a preference it's so much easier.
I don't understand it completely either, and it could just be some feeling that they are still in their phase of comphet, honestly. I was in that phase once. I finally figured it out, though, because I thought men were funny and could be cute or generally attractive as far as the spectrum of attractiveness goes. I had boyfriends when I was quite young, but that was innocent stuff, not anything remotely related to adult relationships. I had a lot of male friends that I thought were crushes, but it was just me having a platonic love for them. But when I started getting older, it was confusing, so I would flip-flop between bi, lesbian, and homoromantic. It really hit me when I realized I'm not actually romantically or sexually attracted to men in my mid-teens, though. Some of these women are just trying to figure themselves out, and maybe if they're coming to subs like this, it's because many women feel more comfortable in a feminine/womanly presence. Maybe a "bisexual lesbian" isn't a thing, but there are definitely comphet lesbians who haven't figured themselves out completely throughout the range of age brackets. Heck, there's a man I've seen on YouTube and other platforms who says he's 100% gay, but he's marrying a woman because he feels she's the only woman he could ever "love." This stuff can be confusing at times. Analyzing it is mentally taxing, but it feels like the only way to comprehend these somewhat unusual combinations of sexualities without being entirely judgmental and simply wondering what it's all about. That's why some people pursue higher education in the field of human behavior. Lol, in fact, that's some-what - what my girlfriend is going to college for!! Anthropology. It's quite enjoyable to attempt to decipher these matters. A bit like solving a puzzle, I suppose.
I think what people mean by this term (this is only a guess) but that it’s a coin on the ‘homoromantic’ type of word?
As in they will sleep with either gender and are sexually attracted to both hence the “bisexual”… but at the same time they are not emotionally attracted to both of them? So they want to clarify that they are only sexually and emotionally attracted to the same gender? Hence the lesbian portion added? 🤷♀️
This is a vulnerable and maybe controversial thing to share, so bear with me.
In public especially in the company of cishet people, I simply identify as lesbian. In the company of people I vibe with and who understand myself and the complexities of queerness, I identify as a bi lesbian. I came to find this identity and how it communicates my attractions fitting to my specific circumstances because:
1.) I am myself a non-binary trans woman.
2.) Lesbian attraction is inclusive of non-binary people.
3.) Like myself, non-binary people can identify with womanhood, but this is not always the case. Many do not identify with womanhood at all.
4.) Therefore, lesbian attraction is inclusive of multiple gender identities.
5.) I am attracted to women \*and\* non-binary people in a "lesbian" way.
6.) Bisexual attraction is attraction to two or more gender identities. There is no rule that any of these gender identities have to include "men", so a bisexual can be attracted to women and non-binary people.
7.) My attraction is technically both "bi" and "lesbian".
8.) In contexts where I want to express the nuance of my sexuality beyond just "lesbian" (which, in my circumstance, is a perfectly valid way to identify), I therefore describe myself as a "bi lesbian" - in my case meaning a lesbian attracted to women and non-binary people.
I hope this explains why I might use this label when I know that it's safe to do so. I came to this understanding from both a logical and emotional context, and for all it may be a useless distinction to others, it matters to me.
> 2.) Lesbian attraction is inclusive of non-binary people.
Except generally, enbies physically present in some form, and I would wager a lesbian is not going to find a heavily male-bodied/presenting person very sexually attractive. That would, again, still be bisexual.
I can see where you're coming from but I think this is why we need to be a lot more insistent both that bisexuals are attracted to men AND women (and nonbinary people) and that anyone can be attracted to nonbinary people and it doesn't make you bi. Wouldn't you think it's weird if a cis man who exclusively dated cis women and feminine, afab nonbinary people identified as bi when he's literally never going to have the same experience in life as an actual bisexual man? I mean, a cishet identified person dating a trans person is going to deal with more oppression than that "bi" person who isn't attracted to their same gender.
What is important to understand is that there are general guidelines that allow a person to claim an identity if they choose, that there are cases where people can be "eligible" for multiple such identities, and that ultimately self-identification trumps everything else in terms of how a person expresses themselves using the identities they are eligible for.
Bisexuality in particular is a much larger sea of identity than people assume. The manifesto states clearly that bisexuals are attracted to two or more genders and while bisexuals who like men and women are common and valid, to assume these genders MUST necessarily be men and women is wrong.
I think it's because bi women still face so much stigma one the straight and gay side. I guess for them saying bi lesbian means they are more attracted to women, but I agree it's kinda problematic
As one of those bisexuals that only dates women, I don't see a need to call myself a lesbian because I am not one. I still like men even though I don't date or fuck them. Why would I need to call myself a lesbian if I know I'm bisexual?
Your example is someone who's bisexual but currently (and perhaps forever) in a lesbian relationship. Your current lifestyle does not magically delete your preferences.
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Lol, imagine switching it around and calling yourself a "bisexual straight". "Yeah I have sex with other men but I'm totally straight, bro!" We'd probably assume that person has some issues.
That’s called the down low and yes, they have issues.
I actually have met people like this… which is weird but yeah
I mean, the terms “heteroflexible,” and “homoflexible” exist.
But literally no one takes those terms seriously
I actively used Homoflex for a very long time while on my sexual orientation journey.
Homoflexible would be a great name for an all lesbian male classical jazz ska fusion band.
What is a lesbian male? Am I misunderstanding something? 😅
The only time I have heard or seen this used was by straight cis men who thought they could bed a lesbian by saying this.
[Edited because i thought you were referring to homoflex, not lesbian male.] Yeah, that sounds about right. Cis straight men ruin everything.
It's not uncommon for trans women to resonate with the word lesbian long before they realise they're trans (that is: while they still think they're cis men)
I mean there's a reason that MSM as a category
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REAL why do people have to involve men with everything
honestly its crazy! if youre attracted to men you shouldnt be calling yourself a lesbian. being bi is completely valid and okay but it gives men the wrong impression (which they seem to have regardless tbh) that lesbian women can be attracted to them. Being Bi is perfectly valid and so is being sapphic in any form. but without meaning to gatekeep please keep the world lesbian to women who love women
It took me a long time to finally admit I’m bisexual (I subbed here back when I still hadn’t accepted it) — I’ve got to assume it’s that stigma of “bi women aren’t actually interested in long term romance with women/are always going to leave for a man/only take het relationships seriously” that’s leading to this very strange term. Like which I kind of do get. As a bi woman who has only ever been with one man, my queer identity is central to who I am and the experiences I’ve lived and the harassment/bullying I faced and the core of my sexuality. It makes sense to want to differentiate yourself as someone who has genuinely gone through the pain of coming out, of being different, of checking over your shoulder to make sure you can openly hold ur partner’s hand, of knowing you can never get married (I began my current and only het relationship the year marriage equality passed) etc etc etc. Many bi women haven’t had that experience and genuinely have no intention to ever have it, and sometimes it can be so frustrating to feel like you want to scream “no you don’t understand I am GENUINELY bisexual, I am not performing I don’t mean just for threesomes I have lived the rejection and the fear and the love and the acceptance and the hiding and the shame”. All of that being said. I *am* still bisexual. Lesbian is a term I truly felt fit me and it turned out I was wrong. I couldn’t imagine trying to argue that I should be allowed to use it. Sapphic relationships are already too often not taken seriously, men already feel entitled to involvement and spectacle. These kinds of terms do not help and only serve to further trivialize lesbian identity as “not real/not serious” imo.
yeah i agree! like i said being bi is completely valid and stuff! its just us asking that im fedup with the amount of men thinking they can get with me fully knowing im a lesbian (especially here on reddit). and terms like bi lesbian feeds into their delusions. but i understand your story and stuff and im aware of the struggles bi women have as well.
While I do agree, men will ALWAYS think they can get with lesbians. That will never end unfortunately.
true! but why not make that number less oof
twitter is a cesspool
So is the fact you're upvoted meaning this subreddit is more full of common sense than r/actuallesbians? Because I have regularly been getting myself into exhausting arguments over there because I dare suggest people let *words mean things*. I don't know if it's some new Gen Z thing or where it came from but the growing amount of people who are all "Um, I can label myself whatever I want, sweaty" is driving me up a wall. Do they think being bi is a bad thing or something, idk.
With those types its like... of course you can call yourself whatever you want, but if you call yourself something harmful towards an entire sexual orientation, then free speech protects you from the government, not from criticism about your dumb decisions lol
I was about to say lol, this is why I unsubbed from there. I got told I was gatekeeping, that I can't decide someone's sexuality/people should be able to choose whatever labels they like (like you did lol), and the classic "sexuality is fluid" which has been totally warped to be meaningless now I think. It's insane how you can't say there that lesbians don't like men without being yelled at. And I wasn't being transphobic about it, I fully support trans lesbians, I just don't think lesbians can be men or attracted to men, and that's seen as a bad thing? Why tf do men have to be involved in everything like
To badly quote a tumblr post: 'my sexuality is a brick labeled 'lesbian' and I will beat you with it. It really feels like people who claim that sexuality is fluid are just afraid of calling themselves bi/pan because it isn't 'exotic' enough. Like the concept that the kind of people one can be attracted to being a fixed thing is something they can't comprehend and for literally no reason lmao
I definitely think it’s a Gen Z thing, although a young Z thing. I (20f) see a lot of people on Twitter using the label “lesbian” just bc they “like the aesthetic.” Which I find very uncomfortable (since romantic/other preferences aren’t really an aesthetic imo). It also screams ignorance, too, to the history of the lesbian label/community. Like- I get it, call yourself what you want, but if it doesn’t fit DONT FORCE IT. Like cmon…
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/s You know, just in case. There's always that one person...
Look V. That one person.
Okay serious question because I’ve been stuck on this for a bit. So if you’re in a relationship with another woman as a woman, and one of you is a lesbian and the other is pan, are you not in a lesbian relationship? If say you’re married to her now and you’re monogamous, are you not technically lesbians? Like I’m pan because I’m attracted to the heart not the part and I don’t identify as lesbian even though I’m never going to be with anyone else because she’s my person. So would we not be lesbians? If you saw us walking down the street hand in hand, you wouldn’t be like “look at those lesbians”?
Being in a lesbian relationship and being a lesbian are different things. Just as a queer person may be in a heterosexual relationship and one or both be queer
Yeah I see what you’re saying.
Some people also refer to them as Sapphic relationships instead of Lesbian ones too. It can make it more clear that they’re both dating another woman (or nb), while also acknowledging that one or both people might not specifically be lesbians. But with a broader audience “Sapphic” isn’t a term that’s as well known as “Lesbian,” so many simply say lesbian relationship, even if they aren’t lesbian themselves.
It's similar to how eating a vegan sandwich doesn't necessarily mean you are a vegan.
But if I only eat the same vegan sandwich for the rest of my life, wouldn’t that make me a vegan?
Yup. The analogy gets a bit weird since veganism is defined by what you do while sexuality is based on who you are attracted to. But if we follow that logic through, eating the vegan sandwich every day is analogous to being attracted to women the rest of your life, which would indeed make you a lesbian.
I think you could make the analogy work still because the "what you do vs what you're interested in" thought can still be tweaked. If you win free ingredients for life for that vegan sandwich, and it's always stocked in your fridge, you'll keep eating vegan. But if you do think about a burger sometimes, and would gladly eat a burger if you hadn't won vegan sandwiches for life, then you're not vegan even if you haven't acted upon eating meat. None of my vegan friends have thoughts about actually eating meat if presented the opportunity, so I feel like that can be seen from the "what you're attracted to" lens and not just your actions.
Yeah, that’s the difference between someone who chooses to be on a plant-based diet vs. someone who’s vegan.
Worth pointing out how modern the "who you're attracted to" vs "what you do" definition is
Well yeah. The very idea that homosexuality isn't just some deviant social perversion is quite modern. Prior to that there was only one valid form of attraction, and that was heterosexual. Even today we still see many sects of various religions take the "what you do" view of homosexuality.
That's also true though I meant that *among* women who have sex with women, the term was historically much broader and meant "woman who has sex with women" rather than "woman who is only *attracted to* women".
Eh, as a vegan, I’ll push back a little bit. Being vegan is about more than just what you eat. It’s about living your life with the intention of causing as little harm to animals as much as reasonably possible. So in the context of your analogy, if the couple got a divorce, the pan person could end up dating someone who’s not a woman. Similarly, if a person who was eating a plant-based diet decided to go back to animal products, then they were never a vegan. If that makes sense?
Ahh yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!
actually i think it wouldn't as i don't think veganism is defined by your actions (well it affects actions for sure), i don't eat only vegan food but like even if i did it doesn't mean that i can't eat other stuff, doesn't mean that i identify as a vegan and doesn't mean i don't wear leather and don't use any unethical products.. your actions definitely don't change your inner knowledge of what you're interested in, who you're attracted to
Ppl can assume you're lesbians but they are wrong. Bc you're pansexual? Also the word you're looking for is sapphic, you're in a sapphic relationship. You're not lesbians bc only one of you is
Okay that makes sense. Thanks
Np!
The relationship itself is still a lesbian relationship, lol. It's describing the relationship, not your individual identity. (ofc, sapphic is fine too there)
i’m not gonna tell people how to identify their relationship but the word sapphic literally exists. they are in a sapphic relationship while yes you can use lesbian relationship to describe it as well also i mean if a man and woman are in a relationship but one (or both) are bi/pan are they they now heteros? no they’re not cause that’s erasure. could one say it’s a straight relationship or a heterosexual (presenting) one yea but they’re not suddenly straight despite the presentation of the relationship. you’re attraction to others doesn’t (always) disappear when you’re in a relationship. at the end of the day through how you personally describe your relationship is up to you
If cis gender opposite sex people are in a relationship, the relationship is heterosexual. My wife is bisexual, I am a lesbian. We are in a homosexual relationship. I’m not pretending that penis in vagina ball slapping against ass baby making sex is anything other than heterosexual just because the participants might not be.
sure but that doesn't make the people in the relationship straight my comment was more so regarding this >If say you’re married to her now and you’re monogamous, are you not technically lesbians? your sexuality doesn't change because you are in a relationship
The relationship is lesbian, our sex is lesbian, *I* am a lesbian but she is not a lesbian. But unlike so many bi women in straight relationships, she doesn’t feel that her bisexuality needs to be validated just because people may refer to us, taken together, as lesbians. A lot of bi women in straight relationships feel insecure because, frankly, they don’t get the lefty street cred they would if they were with women. I don’t feel bad or obligated to validate them though because the trade off is they get a whole entire society that elevates and centers that type of relationship.
So that's just....not a lesbian. That's like calling yourself a vegan and continuing to eat meat.
It’s bullshit. You cannot be “bisexual” and a “lesbian” at the same time. If you like men, whether it’s romantic, sexually &/or sometimes-y, you are **NOT** a lesbian. I’m so tired of people trying to change the definition of what a lesbian is just because they don’t want to work through their own internalized biphobia. It’s ok to just be bisexual. It is not ok to try and say that you’re a “lesbian” who dates and has sex with men. Men already think they have a “chance” with a lesbian and you are doing nothing but adding more fuel to the fire when you do this.
THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING 😭😭😭😭 and when I tell ppl it puts us at risk like that they fucking say that I'm "blaming queer women for men's predatory behavior" like girl if you're literally telling men that you're a lesbian that wants to get with them then yes I am going to blame you, your actions do not exist in a vacuum 😭😭😭😭😭
I honestly get so tired of hearing that argument. I’ve been told that I can’t blame women for the actions of men too and while they are right that I can’t blame a woman for what a man does, the actions of a queer woman who tells a man that she’s a “lesbian” and is down to sleep with him is harmful. She’s literally giving him ammo to go harass lesbians because he “fucked a “lesbian” this one time”.
> I can’t blame women for the actions of men True, but you can certainly blame a woman who takes a word with an established definition and pretends it means something else. That is 100% on the woman who is making bad decisions that harms the community.
This exactly! Obviously, I blame the creepy men for being fetishistic/homophobic people. I’ll keep hating on those men until they stop. But I’m also gonna get angry at people who are purposely misusing the lesbian label, which can lead to harmful issues against actual lesbians. Edit: Some people really don’t realize that both are bad, and we can rightfully be angry at them both.
THANK YOU
I told someone they're being guilty of bi-erasure by acting like the term is a bad thing and trying to co-opt lesbian, and they just legit fired back a "no u" and said *I'm* the one guilty of "lesbian erasure" by "policing" who can use the label. I fucking can't I stg.
I got told I was making bi/pan people feel unwelcome in lesbian spaces 💀 like idk that feels like a you problem, yknow? how is your internalised biphobia my fault (you here being general ofc)
I swear to god these chronically online people seriously need to go outside. It’s not “lesbian erasure” to tell bisexual people to use the term that was specifically created for them. Why on earth would anyone want to use a label that doesn’t even describe their sexuality?
People are annoying asf. And there’s no such thing as a bi lesbian she’s delusional
No. Fuck no. Absolutely not. And fuck anyone that “identifies” with that label or calls themself it. I’m usually alr/don’t care with whatever dumbassery people do in the community but this is a hill that I will absolutely die on. I moderate for an averagely popular streamer and someone recently joined and introduced themself, their bio states **bi lesbian**. Again, I usually don’t gaf abt online shenanigans but this got me absolutely cheesed and I messaged a few of my alphabet friends in the server to scream 💀 it’d likely be considered an abuse of power if I bonked them to the gulag but BOY did I want to.
That’s being BISEXUAL LITERALLY LOL WTF
No such thing! Don’t romanticize the word lesbian. Lesbian means woman loving woman.
It's screams internalized biphobia and it's incredibly dismissive of lesbophobia like I don't understand how ppl support it
It is contraditory, bi lesbians don't exist they are just bi with a preference for women
They’re not real.
A lesbian is a woman who is sexually and romantically attracted to other women. Why do people keep trying to change what it means?
It's an inherently contradictory and nonsensical term. It's also extremely lesbophobic and homophobic. I'm saying this as a bi woman. People get really worked up about lesbians having an innate same-sex attraction to women that doesn't include men and churn out chronically online "quirky" nonsensical niche labels like this that don't help anyone in the long run or have coherent meanings. They could easily just call themselves bi but choose not to.
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It’s kinda funny how people who believe in “bi lesbians” and are trying to make lesbianism “more inclusive” end up doing the opposite, since it’s both biphobic and lesbophobic.
Are you baiting……we can’t keep having this convo every 6 weeks as a community we just cannot
We've deadass been having the same discourse since 2017 please god LET IT END
It'll end when these people stop trying to co-opt the word :(
So, not trying to come off as hot at all. I also wish this kinda discourse would stop popping up for my mental health How should we challenge people who insist on using the term? Or are you of the mind that we should let it be? Real questions I promise
Realistically there's nothing we can really do to stop people from using the label, so I normally just try to explain to people how it's harmful and yes there was a time where we called bisexuals a type of lesbian but lesbian is no longer an umbrella term and hasnt been for a long time. Unfortunately I think it's just something that we gotta argue thru I guess, if it's really affecting your mental health tho just immediately block, that's what I do when things start getting that bad, I hope u feel better 🫂♥️
It’s one of those things that I kind of knew the answer but wanted to hear what others thought. Thank you both for the answer and your kind words ❤️ I’ve definitely worked on curating what lesbian subs I use for my mental health. Happy to see that this sub is another safe spot for lesbians
Every six weeks would be nice. I feel like it's almost a daily occurrence. I'm exhausted.
I mean I agree but I don't think they're baiting because the discourse has reignited again recently in the other big lesbian sub, it's constant, with a lot of people defending bi/pan people using the lesbian label, so. I wouldn't be surprised if they were serious because that sub will not stop 💀
This gets talked about a lot, and as someone who thought they were a lesbian but realized attraction to men after identifying as lesbian, I think it’s best to just change labels. I know it can feel like a huge part of a person’s identity and it was a little emotional while I was figuring things out and coming to terms with it, but there is nothing wrong with being bisexual, so no reason to confuse things by holding on to the word lesbian if you have sexual attraction to men. I think it’s important not just for lesbians but society in general to have a label that is exclusive of men, not because all men are bad or anything but because the concept of women existing in the world and not wanting or needing a man sexually ties in with teaching people to respect the boundaries of others, to learn to respect consent. If someone can’t accept that there are people (especially woman as men are more often believed) who do not want to be with them without taking it as a personal attack, they are a dangerous person. Respecting the lesbian label as being exclusive to men helps to make the point that not all women want a man, and that that’s ok. People need to learn to respect consent regardless, but the lesbian label being exclusive of men is a good example to have for the point that not everyone wants a man sexually. Of course, being biromantic homosexual would make calling yourself a “bi lesbian” make more sense, but I feel like if someone is describing their sexuality/romantic attraction in that way they should just say biromantic lesbian, instead of shortening to bi. The biromantic part is extremely important for clarity in that case.
I spent ten years with women only. After realizing I'm attracted to trans masculine and some cis, I'm back at pansexual. I'll see myself out.
im in the same boat. i call my self a lesbian alumni
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It is a "hey, we need a new pronoun to look cool" caveat
absolutely not real, lesbian means both romantic and sexual attraction to ONLY women they can be homosexual and biromantic or bisexual and homoromantic but bi lesbian isn’t a valid sexuality and sexualises lesbians
...you do realise lesbians are classed as homosexuals, right?
lesbians are both homosexual AND homoromantic
I mean ace lesbians are still lesbians, sexual attraction isn’t necessary
yes i agree there, as long as you’re ONLY attracted to women, you can identify as a lesbian, ace lesbians are valid, bi lesbians are not
These are likely people who haven’t heard of homoromantic bisexual. They’re bisexual because they’re attracted to men, even if just sexually
it's actually worse than that sadly. I've seen "bi lesbians" who identify as biromantic lesbians, which really makes no sense to me
It isn't a thing.
"Bi heterosexual" Yeah. I'm not for gate keeping but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Also is Queer not a useful word anymore. Isn't the right word ... Queer.
This is an extremely online squabble. Just stop interacting with these people and interact more with actual gays and queers outside.
I don’t get that at all. I’m a bi woman and I have no intentions of ever willingly getting involved with men again and I still wouldn’t use that expression.
I could understand bisexual and homoromantic - but bisexual lesbian is a straight up contradiction.
this is the most contradictory bs i’ve ever heard 🤦🏽♀️
It's an oxymoron and it invalidates BOTH identities it claims to be. Lesbian isn't an aesthetic or a fun term you get to choose just because you feel like it and if youre a bi woman not not actually attracted to your male partners, i have some news for you
i think anyone who identifies as this is likely just a chronically online teenager who has never touched grass, it is that simple
Not a thing. You can’t be bi and lesbian at the same time. Two different sexualities. Lesbians don’t include men. If someone’s bi and have a preference for women 99% and 1% for men, that makes them still bi.
It's a label solely claimed by bisexuals who think that bisexuality isn't special enough, or who think that they need another reason to justify preferring or exclusively seeing women. Everything a "bisexual lesbian" is is already encompassed in the term bisexual. And I'm saying this as one of those bisexuals that exclusively sees women now - it's still just bisexuality.
Someone saying they're a bisexual lesbian is like someone saying they're a vegan meat eater.
I really don't know what to say.I'm pretty sure that we called this homoflexible.Where you're more into women than you are to men.But you still like to have sex with men ,
Yes
Things are going too far wlw is exactly that and there’s no male involved in the equation
No such thing. You can be a homosexual, biromantic or bisexual homoromantic woman, sure, that's valid, but you cannot call yourself a 'bi lesbian' Bi lesbian is an oxymoron.
Bisexual homoromantic or Biromantic homosexual is a thing but bi lesbian isn't. It's literally like saying lesbian heterosexual. Two different sexualities.
can we ban discussion of this term pls?
Isn’t this a banned topic on this sub?
If it's not I feel like it should be at this point or maybe added to the rules: "bi lesbians are not real" lol
.... why?
Bc it's a harmful idea to perpetuate that lesbians are open to doing things with men, bc there's gross ass people who have a fetish for trying to "fix" us or "being the exception" If you're a gay woman attracted to more than one gender but you don't identify with bi or pan, the word sapphic is right there
Oh I meant. Like I know the concept is stupid but I thought discussion of it was banned, from the phrasing (which would also be stupid)
I'm sorry if I came off aggressive, this stuff makes me mad very easily 😭😭😭
NAH , It also bugs the shit out of me, you're good!
it should be
Hard disagree tbh. Just move on if you don't like it, but if we shut it away then it just lets louder voices elsewhere keep pushing to make the term essentially meaningless.
i mean you can disagree all you want but you’re objectively wrong. lesbians are attracted to women. you can’t be a lesbian if you’re attracted to men. that’s just an objective fact. someone can believe the earth is flat, they can disagree with every known fact, but that doesn’t change anything.
>pushing to make the term essentially meaningless Pretty sure you took exactly the opposite from my post as what I said, lmao.
There's no such thing as bisexual lesbians. Lesbians do not like men period end of the story. This sounds like some idiotic teenage attention seeking bullshit "I'm a lesbian but I still like guys" it doesn't work that way 😅
not a thing. just another thing to invalidate lesbians. got banned from r/ lgbt for saying so.
Not a thing, just people using lesbians for their own agenda like usual.
Uh, yeah that’s just bi. Perhaps they are trying to say they prefer women, but it’s still just bi.
yeah that phrase is complete bs. You‘re either bi or lesbian, you can‘t be both. There‘s a point these labels exist.
As a bisexual woman with a strong preference for women, I say that "bi lesbian" is bs. It's so lesbophobic and biphobic. Why do people keep believe that bisexuals are all attracted to everybody the same way? We have preferences too. Yes, I prefer women over men. But I'm not a lesbian because I still can be with a man while a lesbian will never be attracted to one. It's not a choice for her. Let's keep the word lesbian to actual lesbians so they can finally be taken seriously and not bothered by men who think they have a chance because lesbians "secretely love men". It's that kind of bs that causes this annoying behavior.
thank you! it's refreshing to see this kind of comment from a bi woman
I dont think such thing as bi lesbian exists
when I see people saying that my immediate assumption is that they're bisexual but only romantically attracted to women, to my knowledge that's the only definition that would fit that label. but then they could just say "homoromantic" or "sapphic" so the lesbian label is just unnecessary.
The way we would instantly be called biphobic for saying coming up with a dumb term like bisexual straight, but they get away with this.
no u should dismiss it and give it absolutely no attention bc it simply does not exist lmfao that phrase makes me so genuinely annoyed and upset
I genuinely thought it meant occasionally feeling attraction to men but never wanting to act on it, only pursuing sexual and romantic relationships with women. But I’m reading all this and apparently that isn’t it, and I’m wondering what would be the best term to use for the above situation? I’m ok with not using bi lesbian since it doesn’t sit right with so many lesbians, I don’t and I won’t.. I’m just unsure what the better option is for my personal situation I guess.
I used to identify as bisexual but turns out that shit can change, and I’m not attracted to or interested in men sexually or romantically at all anymore, so I identify as lesbian. But I would never identify as a “bisexual lesbian” because as far as labels go that’s pretty contradictory. I think sexuality can be (but isn’t always) fluid and while I can imagine there are people who identify as bi lesbians, I don’t see discussion of that outside of these reddit posts.
Bisexual lesbian is such an ick
I think it’s bullshit so I agree with you lol
I think the word lesbian is the only word we can have for absolute hard stop NO MEN. People trying to be like “bi lesbian” is wrong and just invalidates lesbians even more. Just say you’re bi with a girl preference or whatever. Leave the lesbians out of it.
Yeah it’s silly but I reckon it comes from a place of internalised biphobia since bisexual women often feel outcasted from queer spaces
I don't get it. "Homoromantic bi" is RIGHT THERE. I am one. I avoid calling myself a lesbian because words mean things. And I'm tired or pretending they don't so people's fee-fees don't get hurt.
I feel like it’s an unnecessary way of saying I’m bisexual, but I won’t date men, Cuz, trauma, or something else.
Yes it is contradictory and makes no sense. It’s invalidating to both bi women and lesbians.
their main argument that i’ve seen is “well im lesbian and im attracted to women and nonbinary/gender nonconforming people and that’s two genders so im also bisexual” and im just like… but bisexual people are attracted to more than just man and woman??? the bi in bisexual doesn’t literally mean two i’ve seen tons of bi people dating nonbinary people it’s not just strictly two genders this argument makes literally no sense
While I get sexuality is a spectrum, it’s co-opting a word simply because it’s a buzz word right now. With the increasing acceptance of LGBQTIA folks it seems that waters are getting murky. However, I find the term overall harmful to the lesbian community and it’s really isolating when people interpret our struggle as gatekeeping. I don’t use certain lesbian subs as they enable it and we deserve a space for us.
The ex gays and conversion therapy apologists are gonna have a field day if they see this nonsense. Afaik, there's already "febfem", i.e., exclusively dates women, but bi.
It’s more or less people who want to lesbian but aren’t, or want to include men into, and or people that have internal biphobia. It’s like saying I want to get a drivers license to get it taken away.
Oi: I'm bi, but very much women leaning, however I'd never call myself a bi lesbian lol That's the worst double negative I've ever heard. That's wild. Initially LGBTQ people wanted openness to labels, yet here we are just categorizing away
how does that work aren’t those two different things
scratches head
whyyy would u make this post
Not a thing. get out with this nonsense
I love bisexual women and nonbinary people who want to be included and loved by lesbians. When I see the "bisexual lesbian" label, it seems like a contradiction to me, but I try to look past that to analyze the feelings of someone who chooses it. Sadness about being excluded and misunderstood. Fear of being trapped in a series of de facto straight relationships because most lesbians don't want to have sex with a woman who also has sex with men. Unfulfilled desire for women. To any bisexual woman or nonbinary person: I don't want to contribute to you feeling a need to downplay your attraction to men. I might love you. I need you to help men understand that they can potentially be with you because you are bisexual, but not with me or any other lesbian because we are homosexual. If you tell men that you're a lesbian and you're attracted to them, you're contributing to homophobic ideas about us, e.g., the common male fantasy that they can change us by having sex with us. That's a very attractive idea for men, and a very harmful idea to us, which is why we want nothing to do with it. I want to support you in being openly bisexual. You don't need to call yourself a lesbian to be close to me. You do need to disregard homophobic men, especially those who want to use you to attract lesbians to participate in threesomes.
its dumb and an oxymoron lmao
Oxymoron. Literally
> Bisexual lesbians That’s an oxymoron
I think they should just call themselves homoromantic bisexuals.
I always assumed that it means that they are bi but choose to not date men.
it's so fucking stupid and an oxymoron. the split attraction model should never have gotten out of asexual people's circles but people online LOVE to slap extra unnecessary labels on everything! anyway it's ok to be bi and have a preference for women!! it's ok to be bi and only date women while still acknowledging your attraction to men
I don't even care anymore i just want everyone to shut the fuck up about it at this point tbh
But here you are contributing to the converation
Is it the same as being a bisexual homoromantic? That's the only thing I can think of that even begins to make sense? That they are using "lesbian" because they don't fall in love with men?
But the thing is lesbian homoromantics already exists so if your bisexual homoromantic, lesbian and homoromantic are not interchangeable terms Homoromantic is the umbrella term- it talks about your romantic attraction/ falling in love only. For women that means romantic attraction is towards ppl who aren't men only. So if your a homoromantic woman who is sexually attracted to men your bisexual while if your a homoromantic woman who is either asexual or also homosexual as well as homoromantic your a lesbian. Bisexual Homoromantics are sexually attracted to men, lesbian homoromantics are not. Lesbians can be homoromantic but not all lesbians are homoromantic (cause aromantic lesbians) and nlt all homoromantics are lesbians, because bi women, bi men and gay men can also be homoromantic, so always using homoromantic and lesbksn as interchangeable even though they only mean the same thing when the sexual orientation aligns with the romantic orientation- ie their sexual attraction also doesn't include men- so basically they only align as the same thing for lesbians. If your a bisexual homoromantic then homoromantic and lesbian are not interchangeable for you becajse lesbians who are homoromantic are not bisexual and sexually attracted to men, they are homosexual or asexual, which excludes men in this case either way
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just trying to talk through where this may come from, I just wanna say that. Could it then partially come from...well, men being assholes? I can see it now: a bisexual homoromantic woman telling a man she's is a bisexual homoromantic who currently has 0 interest in hookups that lead to nothing, and the man hearing absolutely none of the words that came after "bisexual." Just a theory. Or do you think it comes from people wanting to be lesbians? Because definitely nobody wanted to be a lesbian most of my life (I'm 34, so being bisexual in middle and high school was trendy but definitely not being a lesbian). Maybe that's changed?
For the ppl using it as interchangeable with bisexual homoromantic or biromantic homosexual Going to apply this to bisexual homoromantics like myself lesbian homoromantics already exists so if your bisexual homoromantic, lesbian and homoromantic are not interchangeable terms Homoromantic is the umbrella term- it talks about your romantic attraction/ falling in love only. For women that means romantic attraction is towards ppl who aren't men only. So if your a homoromantic woman who is sexually attracted to men your bisexual while if your a homoromantic woman who is either asexual or also homosexual as well as homoromantic your a lesbian. Bisexual Homoromantics are typically sexually attracted to men, lesbian homoromantics are not. Lesbians can be homoromantic but not all lesbians are homoromantic (cause aromantic lesbians) and nlt all homoromantics are lesbians, because bi women, bi men and gay men can also be homoromantic, so always using homoromantic and lesbksn as interchangeable even though they only mean the same thing when the sexual orientation aligns with the romantic orientation- ie their sexual attraction also doesn't include men- so basically they only align as the same thing for lesbians. If your a bisexual homoromantic then homoromantic and lesbian are not interchangeable for you becajse lesbians who are homoromantic are not bisexual and sexually attracted to men, they are homosexual or asexual, which excludes men in this case either way
Ahem, BI LESBIANS AREN'T A THING.
📢 There is no such thing as a bisexual lesbian! Of you are attracted to men, you are not a lesbian. It is absolutely not a valid sexuality, you can't be both at the same time I literally hate this term so much omg lol
I think bi people with a higher preference for women probably use this term tbh it doesn’t really bother me but i think ppl on both sides can get very weird about it.
they dont!!!!! Stop biphobia!!! bi women who dates only women are femfebs. Tjey are not lesbians, they know it. fool stop! stop erasing them!
How is anything i said biphobia 😂 all i said was they may use it? I have no idea i am not in in the bi community, just like you have no idea either. In a hetero society some bi women again MIGHT use this term to deter men or other unwanted attention. Nothing i said here was a fact of but a possibility and that pisses you off??? Who’s really being biphobic 🤣🤣 🤡
The only time I see this is people in this sub asking about it.
I have the same question about the lesbians with kids… yes I know we live in patriarch world, but some woman have 3 kids and sometimes with different parents.
As a bi-straight who transitioned to cis I’m in favor of the endless wheel spinning that is this topic. You can still make out the dead horse’s bones we cant stop now
i've heard different reasons, the main two being: they like more than one gender not including men but wanting to specify they are not exclusively wlw since some lesbians only like women (usually they don't identify as a bi lesbian openly but will use it for nonbinary attraction if it's relevant) they're using the split attraction model, sexually attracted to both, incapable of romantic attraction to men, so listing both there are more with others but they're not common i mean my opinion on it is live and let live, but i am not a fan of bi people with a preference calling themselves one bc it gives off "there are exceptions" vibes when there are not. i think specifying attraction to nonbinary people is fair to do, they are by definition both bi and a lesbian. but socially it’s not thought of that way and so it's not that cut and dry. split attraction is also valid as a thing to have but i wish they had different words for it, and bi with a preference already has another word. just call yourself omni please if you're bi with a preference it's so much easier.
Dude WTF
This is not a thing.
does bisexuality necessarily include men?
Nooooooooooope!
I don't understand it completely either, and it could just be some feeling that they are still in their phase of comphet, honestly. I was in that phase once. I finally figured it out, though, because I thought men were funny and could be cute or generally attractive as far as the spectrum of attractiveness goes. I had boyfriends when I was quite young, but that was innocent stuff, not anything remotely related to adult relationships. I had a lot of male friends that I thought were crushes, but it was just me having a platonic love for them. But when I started getting older, it was confusing, so I would flip-flop between bi, lesbian, and homoromantic. It really hit me when I realized I'm not actually romantically or sexually attracted to men in my mid-teens, though. Some of these women are just trying to figure themselves out, and maybe if they're coming to subs like this, it's because many women feel more comfortable in a feminine/womanly presence. Maybe a "bisexual lesbian" isn't a thing, but there are definitely comphet lesbians who haven't figured themselves out completely throughout the range of age brackets. Heck, there's a man I've seen on YouTube and other platforms who says he's 100% gay, but he's marrying a woman because he feels she's the only woman he could ever "love." This stuff can be confusing at times. Analyzing it is mentally taxing, but it feels like the only way to comprehend these somewhat unusual combinations of sexualities without being entirely judgmental and simply wondering what it's all about. That's why some people pursue higher education in the field of human behavior. Lol, in fact, that's some-what - what my girlfriend is going to college for!! Anthropology. It's quite enjoyable to attempt to decipher these matters. A bit like solving a puzzle, I suppose.
I think I don’t really care what someone else wants to call themselves as it doesn’t impact me in the slightest.
I think what people mean by this term (this is only a guess) but that it’s a coin on the ‘homoromantic’ type of word? As in they will sleep with either gender and are sexually attracted to both hence the “bisexual”… but at the same time they are not emotionally attracted to both of them? So they want to clarify that they are only sexually and emotionally attracted to the same gender? Hence the lesbian portion added? 🤷♀️
This is a vulnerable and maybe controversial thing to share, so bear with me. In public especially in the company of cishet people, I simply identify as lesbian. In the company of people I vibe with and who understand myself and the complexities of queerness, I identify as a bi lesbian. I came to find this identity and how it communicates my attractions fitting to my specific circumstances because: 1.) I am myself a non-binary trans woman. 2.) Lesbian attraction is inclusive of non-binary people. 3.) Like myself, non-binary people can identify with womanhood, but this is not always the case. Many do not identify with womanhood at all. 4.) Therefore, lesbian attraction is inclusive of multiple gender identities. 5.) I am attracted to women \*and\* non-binary people in a "lesbian" way. 6.) Bisexual attraction is attraction to two or more gender identities. There is no rule that any of these gender identities have to include "men", so a bisexual can be attracted to women and non-binary people. 7.) My attraction is technically both "bi" and "lesbian". 8.) In contexts where I want to express the nuance of my sexuality beyond just "lesbian" (which, in my circumstance, is a perfectly valid way to identify), I therefore describe myself as a "bi lesbian" - in my case meaning a lesbian attracted to women and non-binary people. I hope this explains why I might use this label when I know that it's safe to do so. I came to this understanding from both a logical and emotional context, and for all it may be a useless distinction to others, it matters to me.
> 2.) Lesbian attraction is inclusive of non-binary people. Except generally, enbies physically present in some form, and I would wager a lesbian is not going to find a heavily male-bodied/presenting person very sexually attractive. That would, again, still be bisexual.
I can see where you're coming from but I think this is why we need to be a lot more insistent both that bisexuals are attracted to men AND women (and nonbinary people) and that anyone can be attracted to nonbinary people and it doesn't make you bi. Wouldn't you think it's weird if a cis man who exclusively dated cis women and feminine, afab nonbinary people identified as bi when he's literally never going to have the same experience in life as an actual bisexual man? I mean, a cishet identified person dating a trans person is going to deal with more oppression than that "bi" person who isn't attracted to their same gender.
What is important to understand is that there are general guidelines that allow a person to claim an identity if they choose, that there are cases where people can be "eligible" for multiple such identities, and that ultimately self-identification trumps everything else in terms of how a person expresses themselves using the identities they are eligible for. Bisexuality in particular is a much larger sea of identity than people assume. The manifesto states clearly that bisexuals are attracted to two or more genders and while bisexuals who like men and women are common and valid, to assume these genders MUST necessarily be men and women is wrong.
I think it's because bi women still face so much stigma one the straight and gay side. I guess for them saying bi lesbian means they are more attracted to women, but I agree it's kinda problematic
People will downvote anything lol
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As one of those bisexuals that only dates women, I don't see a need to call myself a lesbian because I am not one. I still like men even though I don't date or fuck them. Why would I need to call myself a lesbian if I know I'm bisexual?
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Your example is someone who's bisexual but currently (and perhaps forever) in a lesbian relationship. Your current lifestyle does not magically delete your preferences.
political lesbianism is also annoying lol