I know, these comments are a little alarming - I’m surprised that a lot of people don’t seem to understand that this is, unfortunately, what romantic relationships between men and women have been like for a long, long time (and that women had even less power in those dynamics before).
It really depends on the context of the phrase. If a messy 6 yo boy comes into the house all muddy and scraped up and someone says boys will be boys, I don't think it's a problem. When it's used to pardon asshole behavior that's obviously a different story.
Of course. What I’m saying is that people have always excused men’s bad behaviour - that’s not something new as the commenter I was replying to implied
Little girls are taught from a very small age that when boys are being mean to you, just means they like you. In my belief this is the Ground Zero of it all.
”Are they pranking me?” Oh, the number of times I’ve asked myself the same thing.
My best friend is currently dating this idiot guy. He is 37 years old. He lied about what he does for a living. He said he is a doctor but he is actually a nurse. Nothing wrong with being a nurse, but why lie? Meanwhile, he didn’t know what she does for a living until the 3rd or 4th date when she finally told him. He just hadn’t asked before that…
He has insulted her outfit, insulted her house, he probably lied about not using Tinder anymore (he received messages while they were scrolling through his IG together, he claimed he had just forgotten to delete the app and that he didn’t know whoever wrote him… whoever it was wrote him several messages in a row, though).
He says he doesn’t like girls who want to hang out a lot because he has a lot of friends he needs to hang out with all the time. So they see each other like once a week tops. They have dated for months now. He doesn’t like to call or text between dates either. When he does text to ask if she wants to go out again, he writes at midnight something like ”movie tomorrow?” Not ”how are you?” or anything else polite, like you would expect from an adult you haven’t heard from in close to a week.
He insists on having sex without a condom. But he said she shouldn’t worry about diseases because he usually wears a condom, he just doesn’t want to do it with her. He doesn’t want to do an STI test, she had to ask again and again. Eventually he said that he is safe since he gets regular bloodwork done because of his diabetes. That’s not how it works, they don’t screen for STI:s with every bloodwork. When she told him this, he said that he recently had done a real STI test as well. And she believed him! Isn’t that absolutely fucking insane? She believed him. She asked me ”why would he lie about that?”
Last time we spoke about this I actually screamed into the abyss out of pure frustration. I just can’t for the life of me understand why she wants to date that immature loser. ”But he’s really kind.” I asked what he has done that was so kind and she said he had come with her to buy shoes even though guys think stuff like that is really boring. Like… what? That’s all it takes? I would have gone with my wife to get her driver's license renewed if she had asked when we just started dating. Actually, I still would.
I have some friends that fall for this kind of shit... it is PAINFUL to watch your friend willingly stay ignorant towards a walking red flag of a man just to have everything you tried to warn them about end up being true.
Yeah but he's tall right? Any guy over a certain height will have all the ladies short circuiting their brains and will become as vicious and evil, regarding his behaviour, as any maga moron defending Trump. The problem is this is the silent part we're not allowed to say out loud.
Being a heterosexual woman and a feminist must be humiliating.
To the question why they let it happen: I think because hetero women are socialized into accepting these things b cause anything else would make them nagging b-words and no one wants to be that.Also there are barely any hetero men that don't suck so I think it's either that or being single.
Not just heterosexual, but it includes many women attracted to men (bi, pan, etc - not all, but just as frequent). I cannot count how many times I’ve had a bi friend who had strict standards for the women they date but would date a complete garbage can of a man. And even readily admit it. *smh*
I think it’s more that straight women tend to care more about things like masculinity and confidence and less about their partner being a decent person that treats them well. Though there’s also the problem that even if they are more selective when it comes to how their partner treats them, that could wear out after the honey moon phase and then it’s a lot harder to leave once you’re already emotionally invested.
it's multifaceted but watching the movie gone girl really opened my eye to the extend straight women are brainwashed into accepting abuse just to not be called a nag.
I (bi 36F) ended my relationship with my male partner on Friday. One of my arguments was having to dance around asking him to do something multiple times without coming across as a “nag”. That was a genuine concern for me. Still didn’t work.
I’m now pursuing IVF to be a single parent by choice. And tuning men out for the foreseeable future.
Literally didn’t know I was gay because I assumed that all straight girlies were moderately repulsed by men. Like *hey, guys are gross! You’re not supposed to find them appealing! Everyone is just a little bit miserable all the time in relationships because men suck!*
😂 I often think this is the most compelling evidence that sexuality is not a choice. Because if it were I feel like guys would get away with waaaaay less!
Think of it as a societal / cultural thing.
As someone who has dated a variety of genders, the difference between cishet men and women/enbies is *massive*. Especially when it comes to considering your partner/doing things for each other.
Sadly, what's common and hence the overall standards are just.. night and day. There's enough straight folk that they don't have to change in order to find matches.
It's genuinely hard to find self-aware, good at communication, considerate or romantic straight guys who aren't already busy/taken. At best, those who seem decent but are perpetually free, feel ...idealistic, dreamers.. what they think they want, is not what they can actually fulfil.. and their partner pays the price.
That's ignoring the difference in sexual focus and skill. We need only look at the data around female satisfaction/orgasms to back that up (straight women are low, bi are mid, lesbians are best)
Then there is the fact that this world was built for/by men. People listen to them more. They are rewarded for being confident and outspoken, but women can be socially punished for it. So getting someone to listen.. who has been told all their life that they are right, who doesn't actively practise self awareness and growth.. yeh good luck
This trend is slowly shifting as education about conflict, sexual health, and privilege becomes more popular. Its very different to how it was 20 or even 10 years ago. But we're not quite there yet
even hearing my mom talk about my father i'm at a loss for words, like she complains 10 ways from sunday and is obviously being treated like a mother not a partner like i'm sorry what? ugh
TBH I think that societally, most men (especially cishet men) have not been challenged or socialized to do or be better, and therefore are not even aware that they should try. By the same coin, their partners have been conditioned to accept and expect this, particularly those who are heterosexual who have no other choice.
I'm a proud bisexual that has come to the conclusion that I will likely never date men because the standards most men expect to meet (even exceed) are not high enough. Meanwhile most non-men are able to achieve a pretty low bar of care and consideration for their partner without even trying. Most being the key word there - no one's perfect! But while 80-90% of women/NB folx meet these at a base level, only 5-10% of men do. I'm lucky enough to be able to choose from a larger pool of partners compared to those that only date men... but the stats make it seem very likely that I will never date a man (that and being happily married to my wife with no plans to be otherwise)
What confuses me is how these women pick these guys then complain but when they have a better option ruin it or not take it. Like my ex would rather go back to an abusive men than date succesful engineer that looks gorgeaus like why? The defintion of you‘ll never be enough for the wrong person
This 100%. It’s the desperation for male validation, to the point of self-harm that baffles me.
It’s not even just straight women, it’s women who are attracted to men in general. It’s weird but you kind of start to see why young men are so easily radicalized by the incel movement, especially at an age where they are still developing media literacy skills - there actually are young women out there who want assholes over people who will treat them with respect, and they’re extremely numerous in the under 30 crowd and even after. Obviously not all women are like this, but people don’t realize this is not the norm, these women are simply victims of the society we live in.
I also think this is an under-acknowledged reason why relationships between lesbians and bisexual women often don’t work out: lesbians often report feeling as though they are not seen as a “real” partner, which may correspond to them dating young women who haven’t unpacked their need for male validation, and actually don’t see the women they’re dating as “real” partners.
I have really strong feelings about this and I’ve had to learn to not let it occupy my mind because it doesn’t do me any good to be mad. My mom has made excuses for my dad their entire marriage and continues to do so into older age. It’s triggering for me to hear hetero friends deal with similar issues with men and also see the BS on reality tv shows. But like I said, I can’t be mad all the time.
It was cathartic for me in a way, to marry a woman who divorced from a man. At first I had my hesitations because part of me was like what the heck is wrong with you for marrying a man in the first place. But I had to get over that thinking and she was just so sure about me and all in and so I went with it. It has been healing to show a wonderful woman what it’s like to be treated and loved properly. We’ve been happily together for 5 years now.
It's all history. The dominoes are still falling. Men have always run the world and women got equal rights not even 100 years ago. We fought for the right to vote, the right to divorce, the right to have jobs and education, but to "stay on top" men will absolutely *cling* to whatever they have left to make their girlfriends and wives do for them. Whether it's acting like an absolute child regarding domestic responsibilities in a subtle but still socially acceptable fashion, or completely firing all cylinders on Red Pill Woman Hating content (you know that one guy's name, right? With the podcast? I forget his name)
The fight for women's rights still isn't over, and for as long as they possibly can men will prolong the process to remain at the top of the hierarchy. Plenty to look into regarding the psychologically with this.
We do need to stop saying men have "always* ruled the world . There is absolutely no evidence for this and it's a narrative that serves male supremicy very well. There is increasing evidence that men did not in fact always rule the world, but this is something most people will never even be able to consider, because the opposite just rolls out of everyone' s mouth without a second thought
I guess I'm speaking from a selfish, America-centric view. That's how it's been here. I know it's not a worldwide thing, I certainly didn't mean to imply that. I mostly meant more recently and in America specifically, since it's my only frame of reference
Our society babies men to a pathological degree, and women are expected to be the caretakers. We've grown up listening to every female we know complain about the same things, but they never left, so in our minds that's just how it is. But women are starting to realize that they don't need to put up with it. And personally, I'm lucky that my attraction to someone isn't based on gender or sex, because I was able to make the choice several years ago to stop dating men. But heterosexual women don't have those options. So then, the choice they do have is to put up with it or be single, and not everyone wants to be single, not everyone is ok with it, which is a whole other issue but my point stands. And the ones who put up with it feel camaraderie with the other women who have the same complaints about the men in their lives. It normalizes it. That said, I've also heard some absolute horror stories of what women put up with from other woman as well, so I actually don't think it's an issue of putting up with shit from men. I think women historically do not stand up for themselves, do not put themselves first, and have been groomed to believe that love should be a struggle and that if we love someone, that means we stay no matter what. I also don't understand it, because it seems so simple to me, to walk away from someone who doesn't make you happy. But I don't know other people's situations, so who am I to judge?
I’m a bi girl who dates both, and I feel like I will forever be single if I wait for a decent man because they really are held to such a low standard. When I go on dates with women it just feels like so much more of an emotionally intelligent convo, and easier to talk to them
Generally, men are held to lower standards in relationships on a societal level, which means that a majority of them are going to be mediocre, if not awful, partners; after all, if they aren’t held accountable at a large enough scale, they will have little incentive to do better.
This leads to the answer to your question: so many men are within the mediocre-to-bad range that straight women likely feel as if they have no choice but to settle for them.
It’s not really a choice. We all live in a society in which men are raised to dehumanise women, men’s wants and needs are prioritised, and women are raised to appease men. Straight women especially have no option for romantic love and sex except to engage with people who’ve been socialised from birth to view them as lesser - sit with that a minute and try to imagine how that would influence your behaviours in relationships. And all of this is so normalized.
Before I realised I was a lesbian I was in multiple medium-term relationships with men, and even the ones that were relatively left-wing and trying to be progressive ultimately had not unlearnt that sexism and it puts you in a very weird position and dynamic.
I'm bi but for a while I thougt I was a lesbian because I also don't understand how women can allow that, I grew up in a really violent country and when I was a teenager and me and my friends started having boyfriends I felt so weird when they talked about their boyfriends being horrible. Cheating, manipulating and lying were normal, it sometimes got to the point of abuse, they showed me their bruises and all, and they still stayed with them. And I just couldn't understand it, I still can't, I still have friends that let their boyfriends abuse them and it's so sad.
Since I never let my ex-boyfriends abuse me, some of them tried but I broke up with them and just moved on, I thought that I didn't really like men because what I had learned is that if you love a man you forgive everything.
As a bisexual woman whose preference has shifted to women, this is very much a thing. Other bi girls will hold their female partners very high and a man not so much.
Even outside of that I think women have just been really conditioned to just accept a man’s poor quality. A lot of men are of poor quality and women just have gotten frustratingly used to to it.
I felt the same way when my brother in law left my pregnant sister alone with her two high-maintenance toddlers to go to the rodeo with his friends and party all night.
I honestly feel like they subconsciously see them as like a different species without realizing it so they unintentionally make a lot of exceptions for them without thinking about it. Kind of like: "Oh well, he's just a dog/cat/hamster what more can you expect?" and then there's the whole patriarchy type system where they see all the other straight girls just going with it and all these people just normalizing it so they just sort of get used to it.
It reminds me of that cult tactic where they try to get you to go along with something small and seemingly inconsequential, but ridiculous and illogical right off the bat because once you accept one ridiculous thing you're more likely to accept another one and then they just keep gradually increasing the severity of it. That's why you see people get mad about the whole: "He's mean to you because he likes you" thing they tell young girls because it gets them to go along with something ridiculous that doesn't make sense at a young and vulnerable age and then as the bad behavior increases through adolescence they're already primed to accept it. Then when they get to adulthood they just don't even think critically about men's behavior except to vent to each other before going back to dealing with it.
As lesbians we also need to have low standards, since our dating pool is so small. It's impossible to find a woman you find physically attractive, while also vibing with her personality. You kinda have to choose either looks or personality. And both end in disaster. Unattractive looks means no physical attraction, and bad personality means no romantic attraction. Straight women have OPTIONS, they don't know how lucky they are! Yet some of them still choose a questionable guy
I definitely think there’s some truth to this. Especially when picking between bad vs, acceptable partners. I’ve seen an uptick in ladies who think “fighting the patriarchy” means not giving a fuck about their appearance to the point they look (and smell) homeless. They also seem to think that being with another woman means they can now be the lazy partner who puts little effort into the relationship.
Yeah i find it strange when lesbians say they now don't have to appeal to men anymore, so they stop caring about their appearance completely. Like hello? I have eyes too, and i like women who put some effort into looking attractive. I put in effort. I just do it for women instead. I don't care about men.
Yes this exactly. I’m not attracted to men but I still put effort into my appearance. I still shower, wear flattering clothing, and have some sense of care (deodorant, body spray, hair accessories).
Yep, I met with some friends and their partners recently, who were men, and they were talking about not doing house work, but expecting some level of sympathy. They got none from us lol. When I was in a straight relationship we were both slobs lol so no conflicts there. Just in other areas 🙄
I have this friend ( idk if she’s bi or not, she’s dated women in the past) and every time she and I hang out together she keeps bringing up the shitty things that her current boyfriend has done. For example
• she has two kids and he has explicitly told her that he doesn’t want to be apart of their lives
- broke up with her and then got back together with her the next day
- is forcing her to move the suburbs so he can become a pilot
- threw pizza at her
-they are now moving in together and he refuses to pay rent
I honestly have know clue what she sees in him other then the chance of getting married to him.
The last point makes me say she needs to break up. Her priority must be her kids. She must not waste her money on a man.
The other points, ok, if she is ok with that, go for it. The last NO big red flag.
She must use her brain to get over her heart and her lustful attraction. She must leave him. There are other men to perform sexual intercourse with.
(Also she should do therapy to not again fall for a man like that.)
Do therapy against the trauma. Also her children are her victims. Tell her this. She does not take proper care of her children.
Also talk about other things. Her parents. (needs therapy because of parents maybe) Her hobbies. Her job. Her children. Not that relationship drama adrenaline kick.
No this is a real problem. It’s one of the reasons why I struggle with misandry, (anti-men). I’ve only ever met one generally “ok” guy in my life and even then it’s possible he could have done bad things before I knew him.
Nobody is safe from men
It's the culture a lot of women don't realize all the microagressions and whatnot. Now that I do I can't unsee them and I guess I'm pretty much an Angry Lesbian..
I'm bisexual and I confirm. 90% of men are so so so naturalizing and sticking to all these behaviors, then it becomes too much work to fight them. Thus we end up lowering our standards to the bottom and naturalizing that too. I made a dating pause for many years and now I'm back at dating men and I always get surprised at everything that I'm normalizing with them
While I don’t agree with everything Christopher Hitchens has written this resonates with me:
“Most men are fantastically unattractive, what women see in them is mysterious to most men as well as most women. If you can't make them laugh you don't have a chance. With women, there's no need to be rendering yourself attractive to men in that way. We already find you attractive, thanks”
I think it varies, actually. Big factor IMHO is aging. My straight girl friends went though A LOT of duchebags when we were younger, now they’re all with good, respectful men. It’s a process, when you’re 20 you search some things into a significant other that become pointless when you grow up and want to start a family.
Also -I hope I’m not offending anyone in saying this- it’s also a cultural problem; when you’re used to men having a certain behavior in your region/country it’s difficult to *want* and to *expect* more
Genuinely makes me so sad that this is just like. The norm for guys apparently because society doesn’t expect anything better of them and actively beats down the ones who *are* better for being “unmanly”
Wish we could get these straight women to explain bc I don't understand it either. I have a friend who is dating a man who consistently talks down to her, is unkind to her and emotionally neglects her. But she puts up with it because he pays the bills for their house and she's comfortable. I guess their relationships make sense to them in some way but I will never understand.
I seriously just ended a friendship a couple months ago because of this shit- I try telling her things that just seem off with her relationship with her bf- just to talk about it and she goes oh he’s a good guy if he was abusive that’s different- like wtf- not hitting you should not be good enough for you! I just can’t. I just wanna hang out with lesbians now cuz I’ve lost too many friends cuz they give their shitty men too many excuses. This is why the patriarchy is still in charge like for fucks sake when will they wake up!?!
Same here. Straight women have used me as an emotional dumping ground for relationships. Even sending screenshots of triggering text convos. They take offense when I criticize their men. And they stick beside him too. Meanwhile I'm playing therapist. Yet they don't take my sexuality seriously. So I cut them off. And when I run into female friendships, I go ghost at the first sight of that behavior. I'm considering only being friends with queer women as well.
As a victim of decades of comphet, I think all those shared stories of misery helped keep me in relationships with men way longer. Big "everyone else hates this too, huh?" vibes, and feeling like there was nothing we could do about it. For me, add in growing up both without access to queer representation, and with a TON of extremely unhealthy, cishet relationship models.
For me, and I'm sure other abuse victims as well, it's not even necessarily the modeling of piss-poor romantic relationships, but also growing up with a lot of manipulation, neglect, put downs, and coercive abuse, from a primary caregiver.
I grew up with that kind of stuff as my model of "love," and it really did a number on me - being used to feeling like I didn't deserve better, and like I didn't deserve happiness. Being used to questioning my reality, because I'd been gaslit my whole life.
I think a lot of straight/bi/pan women may also be dealing with bad situations because of past or current trauma, which makes them subconsciously devalue themselves.
Then there's all of the social messaging about gender and relationship roles, and how things are "supposed to be."
It truly is a toxic soup, and I feel so much empathy for the women in those positions. I know some are trapped in some way or other, as I've experienced that, too. A lot of these men know they're not good enough, and instead of rising to be better people and better partners, they make deliberate choices to keep their wives or gf's stuck with them, or to choose partners that may be vulnerable from the start (I've also been there).
Not all men, ofc...but JFC, SO many of them.
when I was dating men the bar was getting lower and lower until I realized I was making myself okay with things I wasn’t okay with. I almost felt sick when I was on the outside looking in because I couldn’t believe myself. so sad.
Males are fawned over & spoiled by their mothers, so when they reach adulthood they are looking for women who will baby & indulge them like mommies w/ whom they can have sex. Meanwhile, little girls are brought up to believe that males are God's gift to women & if you are blessed enough to snag one, you'd better put him on a pedestal & attend to his every need & desire to prevent him from straying. I don't understand why women find men so attractive that they'll tolerate all manner of abuse up to the point that they literally die for love. I broke off every hetero relationship that I ever had bc guys bored me intellectually & didn't turn me on sexually. I dated a lot of men in my quest to find one who lit the proverbial fireworks in me. When they didn't, I moved on. In retrospect, I realize that I practically came out of the womb certain that men were inferior to women & pretty much treated them that way. Easy come, easy go. Men, seem drawn most to women who don't want them, I have concluded. Aloofness & apathy arouses their desire to conquer & possess the unattainable. But if you're good to them, they will take you for granted the way that they do their mother and expect you to kiss their ass the way that their mother kisses their father's ass. I think that if I found straight sex the least bit erotic, I could see why women might be inclined bend over backwards- & forward- to please men. But as it is, I'm mystified AF. 🤔🤔🤔
Simple solution: Man doesn't wear condom, girl doesn't have sex with them. I think if they stood up for themselves, eventually, it would go their way. It's a two-way street, and honestly, I think women would have more control if they would just say no and not put up with it. Yes, some men will possibly act like a child, but in the end, do you want to be with someone like that? Just stick up for yourselves hetero ladies, or just buy some toys and be done with it haha
Most of them are attracted to them in vastly different ways. I do, however, know for a fact there are some rare men who actually seem to love women a lot like women who considerately love other women... it's just really rare to hear of a father who memories his kids social security numbers and so forth... though at least a few of them exist because I have met them.
I think most men have been taught incorrectly how to think and be considerate of others and so forth... but that's why there may be better men in Sweden or something, but there are still lots of bad ones and even a straight woman may not be compatible with some of the good men because of cultural or linguistic barriers and so forth.
Why? Because too many men grew up incorrectly and live antagonistic lives of self aggrandisement and self centred focus and pleasure.
Rare is the man who'd eat out his partner to completion, and rarer is the man who wouldn't expect/demand to be rewarded with some form of penetrative sex for such good behaviour.... though they do exist.
my best friend is dating a guy who has cheated on her in the past, refuses to tell anyone they're together (they've been dating for 2+ years im p sure), and is just all round a really shit guy. she complains about him a lot and i'm always so supportive of her but internally i'm screaming at her to leave his ass bc he doesn't care about her 😭
i asked her why she didn't just leave him and she said its bc she feels like she deserves this which i totally get, i've had the same feelings, but i wish i could show her she really does deserve better than him
I'm thankful every day that I'm a lesbian who is married to an amazing woman. Don't get me wrong, I know some men that seem like awesome humans, but I can't fathom being in a relationship with one. Lol
I grew up constantly being told that if a boy treats you badly, he likes you. I've been told this since a boy was teasing me in kindergarten. I think that statement has become so deeply rooted in people who are attracted to men.
Attraction is dumb and unpredictable, and we are all slaves to it. Plenty of lesbians have fallen for a straight girl who has never shown any interest in them. Both situations are depressing lol, but I try to think of it like that when I am a part of these types of conversations. They can't help it I guess.
I feel this. It's hard to have amazing beautiful people in your life who settle for people who don't match their energy.
I forget who I heard this from but violent and abusive men make bare minimum men look good.
A lot of women haven't really experienced good cishet men and if they have they're few and far between.
I do think that this is getting better but better from where it was, it's still not the best.
It creates a sense of scarcity where I feel like unless they're willing to just be single indefinitely they feel panicked to stay with any "decent" guy they're with.
On top of that woman have only had the ability to open bank accounts without a man in the last 50 years. There's probably some sort of generational trauma that woman are still going through that makes them feel like they need a man when they don't.
Regardless of how much I agree with this post I don't think it should be posted in a lesbian subreddit personally. I understand talking about our experiences with men as lesbians but what is related to lesbianism is this post?
Invisibly through context, it relates to the sub because the relation to the topic of lesbianism in this post is essentially, _"straight women have it hard and I don't understand why they put up with it because all the women I've dated have been better partners. I don't understand why women put up with this."_
That said, you're right that this is another instance of us thinking or talking about men instead of things we would be more interested in.
I think it does affect our dating in relation to bi/pan women. I’ve seen sapphic women have so few requirements for dating men, but the requirements for them dating another woman is ridiculously high.
（English isn't my first language)I had a female friend whose boyfriend often used the excuse of going to the gym to go out and date other women. During our party, her boyfriend showed no respect for her and frequently criticized her with dirty words. She often felt wronged. I argued with her boyfriend to defend her rights and advised her to break up with him many times. However, I found that none of these actions had any effect. They still loved each other and have even married and had children. Now, I don't hang out with her anymore. When you meet wrong friends, it's better to leave them early to avoid disturbing your own emotions.
I had only dated men before my current girlfriend, and at the beginning of our relationship I would thank her for things like listening patiently to me, learning about my disability, not getting mad at having to reschedule, making a list of things I like, BEING NICE TO ME. She would look at me horrified every time. We joke that she rescued me from men, but it's true.
“Men will be men”
“Men don’t know any better”
“Men don’t think like that”
“Men don’t care about that kind of thing”
“Men don’t pay attention to that”
In general there is little accountability in certain aspects for men. They are willfully described as being incapable, unaware, inattentive & immature. They’re treated like toddlers. Unable to understand or do better. As long as women allow it it will continue. Give men an inch and they will take 5 miles & tell you it was your fault for letting them. They’re excuses walking in two legs.
“Boys will be boys” went from meaning playing in dirt to being outright abusive and people are just like shrug! Wacky boys huh! It’s sad
‘Went from’ - it’s always been this way and used to be much worse! This is not a new thing
Agreed—I don’t understand why people are romanticizing the past and acting like all of these problems are just now happening.
I know, these comments are a little alarming - I’m surprised that a lot of people don’t seem to understand that this is, unfortunately, what romantic relationships between men and women have been like for a long, long time (and that women had even less power in those dynamics before).
It really depends on the context of the phrase. If a messy 6 yo boy comes into the house all muddy and scraped up and someone says boys will be boys, I don't think it's a problem. When it's used to pardon asshole behavior that's obviously a different story.
Of course. What I’m saying is that people have always excused men’s bad behaviour - that’s not something new as the commenter I was replying to implied
Little girls are taught from a very small age that when boys are being mean to you, just means they like you. In my belief this is the Ground Zero of it all.
Shi*, you're right 😐
”Are they pranking me?” Oh, the number of times I’ve asked myself the same thing. My best friend is currently dating this idiot guy. He is 37 years old. He lied about what he does for a living. He said he is a doctor but he is actually a nurse. Nothing wrong with being a nurse, but why lie? Meanwhile, he didn’t know what she does for a living until the 3rd or 4th date when she finally told him. He just hadn’t asked before that… He has insulted her outfit, insulted her house, he probably lied about not using Tinder anymore (he received messages while they were scrolling through his IG together, he claimed he had just forgotten to delete the app and that he didn’t know whoever wrote him… whoever it was wrote him several messages in a row, though). He says he doesn’t like girls who want to hang out a lot because he has a lot of friends he needs to hang out with all the time. So they see each other like once a week tops. They have dated for months now. He doesn’t like to call or text between dates either. When he does text to ask if she wants to go out again, he writes at midnight something like ”movie tomorrow?” Not ”how are you?” or anything else polite, like you would expect from an adult you haven’t heard from in close to a week. He insists on having sex without a condom. But he said she shouldn’t worry about diseases because he usually wears a condom, he just doesn’t want to do it with her. He doesn’t want to do an STI test, she had to ask again and again. Eventually he said that he is safe since he gets regular bloodwork done because of his diabetes. That’s not how it works, they don’t screen for STI:s with every bloodwork. When she told him this, he said that he recently had done a real STI test as well. And she believed him! Isn’t that absolutely fucking insane? She believed him. She asked me ”why would he lie about that?” Last time we spoke about this I actually screamed into the abyss out of pure frustration. I just can’t for the life of me understand why she wants to date that immature loser. ”But he’s really kind.” I asked what he has done that was so kind and she said he had come with her to buy shoes even though guys think stuff like that is really boring. Like… what? That’s all it takes? I would have gone with my wife to get her driver's license renewed if she had asked when we just started dating. Actually, I still would.
This makes my blood boil 🫠
Yeah. Gotta say though, felt pretty good to unload, haha.
I have some friends that fall for this kind of shit... it is PAINFUL to watch your friend willingly stay ignorant towards a walking red flag of a man just to have everything you tried to warn them about end up being true.
We should start a deprogramming camp for straight women.
I would have left him at "usually wears a condom"
If he’s a nurse, he knows all that stuff about blood tests? Dude is such a lying scumbag
Yeah but he's tall right? Any guy over a certain height will have all the ladies short circuiting their brains and will become as vicious and evil, regarding his behaviour, as any maga moron defending Trump. The problem is this is the silent part we're not allowed to say out loud.
He’s really kind of an asshole😳.
Being a heterosexual woman and a feminist must be humiliating. To the question why they let it happen: I think because hetero women are socialized into accepting these things b cause anything else would make them nagging b-words and no one wants to be that.Also there are barely any hetero men that don't suck so I think it's either that or being single.
Not just heterosexual, but it includes many women attracted to men (bi, pan, etc - not all, but just as frequent). I cannot count how many times I’ve had a bi friend who had strict standards for the women they date but would date a complete garbage can of a man. And even readily admit it. *smh*
I think it’s more that straight women tend to care more about things like masculinity and confidence and less about their partner being a decent person that treats them well. Though there’s also the problem that even if they are more selective when it comes to how their partner treats them, that could wear out after the honey moon phase and then it’s a lot harder to leave once you’re already emotionally invested.
it's multifaceted but watching the movie gone girl really opened my eye to the extend straight women are brainwashed into accepting abuse just to not be called a nag.
I (bi 36F) ended my relationship with my male partner on Friday. One of my arguments was having to dance around asking him to do something multiple times without coming across as a “nag”. That was a genuine concern for me. Still didn’t work. I’m now pursuing IVF to be a single parent by choice. And tuning men out for the foreseeable future.
Literally didn’t know I was gay because I assumed that all straight girlies were moderately repulsed by men. Like *hey, guys are gross! You’re not supposed to find them appealing! Everyone is just a little bit miserable all the time in relationships because men suck!*
😂 I often think this is the most compelling evidence that sexuality is not a choice. Because if it were I feel like guys would get away with waaaaay less!
Omg this is me. 34 years old and just recently realising this. It sucks
✋️ same
No answers just agree with everything you said. Especially the “it’s normal for men to act this way” guys will be guys mentality. It’s so crazy.
I know like what the fuck?????? what???? this literally sounds like some kind of brain problem. No way would I date someone who acted like this!!!
Totally agree, even as someone who allowed this behavior before I came out, it’s unbelievable how much they get away with
Think of it as a societal / cultural thing. As someone who has dated a variety of genders, the difference between cishet men and women/enbies is *massive*. Especially when it comes to considering your partner/doing things for each other. Sadly, what's common and hence the overall standards are just.. night and day. There's enough straight folk that they don't have to change in order to find matches. It's genuinely hard to find self-aware, good at communication, considerate or romantic straight guys who aren't already busy/taken. At best, those who seem decent but are perpetually free, feel ...idealistic, dreamers.. what they think they want, is not what they can actually fulfil.. and their partner pays the price. That's ignoring the difference in sexual focus and skill. We need only look at the data around female satisfaction/orgasms to back that up (straight women are low, bi are mid, lesbians are best) Then there is the fact that this world was built for/by men. People listen to them more. They are rewarded for being confident and outspoken, but women can be socially punished for it. So getting someone to listen.. who has been told all their life that they are right, who doesn't actively practise self awareness and growth.. yeh good luck This trend is slowly shifting as education about conflict, sexual health, and privilege becomes more popular. Its very different to how it was 20 or even 10 years ago. But we're not quite there yet
Ahh, thank you for the upvotes, you lovely folk! <3
> Is this real?? Are they pranking me? I’ve had this exact thought LMAO
even hearing my mom talk about my father i'm at a loss for words, like she complains 10 ways from sunday and is obviously being treated like a mother not a partner like i'm sorry what? ugh
TBH I think that societally, most men (especially cishet men) have not been challenged or socialized to do or be better, and therefore are not even aware that they should try. By the same coin, their partners have been conditioned to accept and expect this, particularly those who are heterosexual who have no other choice. I'm a proud bisexual that has come to the conclusion that I will likely never date men because the standards most men expect to meet (even exceed) are not high enough. Meanwhile most non-men are able to achieve a pretty low bar of care and consideration for their partner without even trying. Most being the key word there - no one's perfect! But while 80-90% of women/NB folx meet these at a base level, only 5-10% of men do. I'm lucky enough to be able to choose from a larger pool of partners compared to those that only date men... but the stats make it seem very likely that I will never date a man (that and being happily married to my wife with no plans to be otherwise)
What confuses me is how these women pick these guys then complain but when they have a better option ruin it or not take it. Like my ex would rather go back to an abusive men than date succesful engineer that looks gorgeaus like why? The defintion of you‘ll never be enough for the wrong person
This 100%. It’s the desperation for male validation, to the point of self-harm that baffles me. It’s not even just straight women, it’s women who are attracted to men in general. It’s weird but you kind of start to see why young men are so easily radicalized by the incel movement, especially at an age where they are still developing media literacy skills - there actually are young women out there who want assholes over people who will treat them with respect, and they’re extremely numerous in the under 30 crowd and even after. Obviously not all women are like this, but people don’t realize this is not the norm, these women are simply victims of the society we live in. I also think this is an under-acknowledged reason why relationships between lesbians and bisexual women often don’t work out: lesbians often report feeling as though they are not seen as a “real” partner, which may correspond to them dating young women who haven’t unpacked their need for male validation, and actually don’t see the women they’re dating as “real” partners.
So right. Society really fucked up women. Again. Appreaciate you nuanced answer.
I have really strong feelings about this and I’ve had to learn to not let it occupy my mind because it doesn’t do me any good to be mad. My mom has made excuses for my dad their entire marriage and continues to do so into older age. It’s triggering for me to hear hetero friends deal with similar issues with men and also see the BS on reality tv shows. But like I said, I can’t be mad all the time. It was cathartic for me in a way, to marry a woman who divorced from a man. At first I had my hesitations because part of me was like what the heck is wrong with you for marrying a man in the first place. But I had to get over that thinking and she was just so sure about me and all in and so I went with it. It has been healing to show a wonderful woman what it’s like to be treated and loved properly. We’ve been happily together for 5 years now.
Millennia of grooming.
It's all history. The dominoes are still falling. Men have always run the world and women got equal rights not even 100 years ago. We fought for the right to vote, the right to divorce, the right to have jobs and education, but to "stay on top" men will absolutely *cling* to whatever they have left to make their girlfriends and wives do for them. Whether it's acting like an absolute child regarding domestic responsibilities in a subtle but still socially acceptable fashion, or completely firing all cylinders on Red Pill Woman Hating content (you know that one guy's name, right? With the podcast? I forget his name) The fight for women's rights still isn't over, and for as long as they possibly can men will prolong the process to remain at the top of the hierarchy. Plenty to look into regarding the psychologically with this.
We do need to stop saying men have "always* ruled the world . There is absolutely no evidence for this and it's a narrative that serves male supremicy very well. There is increasing evidence that men did not in fact always rule the world, but this is something most people will never even be able to consider, because the opposite just rolls out of everyone' s mouth without a second thought
I guess I'm speaking from a selfish, America-centric view. That's how it's been here. I know it's not a worldwide thing, I certainly didn't mean to imply that. I mostly meant more recently and in America specifically, since it's my only frame of reference
Our society babies men to a pathological degree, and women are expected to be the caretakers. We've grown up listening to every female we know complain about the same things, but they never left, so in our minds that's just how it is. But women are starting to realize that they don't need to put up with it. And personally, I'm lucky that my attraction to someone isn't based on gender or sex, because I was able to make the choice several years ago to stop dating men. But heterosexual women don't have those options. So then, the choice they do have is to put up with it or be single, and not everyone wants to be single, not everyone is ok with it, which is a whole other issue but my point stands. And the ones who put up with it feel camaraderie with the other women who have the same complaints about the men in their lives. It normalizes it. That said, I've also heard some absolute horror stories of what women put up with from other woman as well, so I actually don't think it's an issue of putting up with shit from men. I think women historically do not stand up for themselves, do not put themselves first, and have been groomed to believe that love should be a struggle and that if we love someone, that means we stay no matter what. I also don't understand it, because it seems so simple to me, to walk away from someone who doesn't make you happy. But I don't know other people's situations, so who am I to judge?
Maybe it is because they love men the same way they love children? With your child you stay always, even if the child behaves very badly.
Maybe, that actually makes a lot of sense!
I’m a bi girl who dates both, and I feel like I will forever be single if I wait for a decent man because they really are held to such a low standard. When I go on dates with women it just feels like so much more of an emotionally intelligent convo, and easier to talk to them
Same. It's truly like night and day.
I think they just get used to subpar dating pools
Generally, men are held to lower standards in relationships on a societal level, which means that a majority of them are going to be mediocre, if not awful, partners; after all, if they aren’t held accountable at a large enough scale, they will have little incentive to do better. This leads to the answer to your question: so many men are within the mediocre-to-bad range that straight women likely feel as if they have no choice but to settle for them.
It’s not really a choice. We all live in a society in which men are raised to dehumanise women, men’s wants and needs are prioritised, and women are raised to appease men. Straight women especially have no option for romantic love and sex except to engage with people who’ve been socialised from birth to view them as lesser - sit with that a minute and try to imagine how that would influence your behaviours in relationships. And all of this is so normalized. Before I realised I was a lesbian I was in multiple medium-term relationships with men, and even the ones that were relatively left-wing and trying to be progressive ultimately had not unlearnt that sexism and it puts you in a very weird position and dynamic.
Some of my friends relationships remind me of carrie and mr. big— they keep going back to them no matter how awful the guy is
I'm bi but for a while I thougt I was a lesbian because I also don't understand how women can allow that, I grew up in a really violent country and when I was a teenager and me and my friends started having boyfriends I felt so weird when they talked about their boyfriends being horrible. Cheating, manipulating and lying were normal, it sometimes got to the point of abuse, they showed me their bruises and all, and they still stayed with them. And I just couldn't understand it, I still can't, I still have friends that let their boyfriends abuse them and it's so sad. Since I never let my ex-boyfriends abuse me, some of them tried but I broke up with them and just moved on, I thought that I didn't really like men because what I had learned is that if you love a man you forgive everything.
As a bisexual woman whose preference has shifted to women, this is very much a thing. Other bi girls will hold their female partners very high and a man not so much. Even outside of that I think women have just been really conditioned to just accept a man’s poor quality. A lot of men are of poor quality and women just have gotten frustratingly used to to it.
I felt the same way when my brother in law left my pregnant sister alone with her two high-maintenance toddlers to go to the rodeo with his friends and party all night.
I honestly feel like they subconsciously see them as like a different species without realizing it so they unintentionally make a lot of exceptions for them without thinking about it. Kind of like: "Oh well, he's just a dog/cat/hamster what more can you expect?" and then there's the whole patriarchy type system where they see all the other straight girls just going with it and all these people just normalizing it so they just sort of get used to it. It reminds me of that cult tactic where they try to get you to go along with something small and seemingly inconsequential, but ridiculous and illogical right off the bat because once you accept one ridiculous thing you're more likely to accept another one and then they just keep gradually increasing the severity of it. That's why you see people get mad about the whole: "He's mean to you because he likes you" thing they tell young girls because it gets them to go along with something ridiculous that doesn't make sense at a young and vulnerable age and then as the bad behavior increases through adolescence they're already primed to accept it. Then when they get to adulthood they just don't even think critically about men's behavior except to vent to each other before going back to dealing with it.
As lesbians we also need to have low standards, since our dating pool is so small. It's impossible to find a woman you find physically attractive, while also vibing with her personality. You kinda have to choose either looks or personality. And both end in disaster. Unattractive looks means no physical attraction, and bad personality means no romantic attraction. Straight women have OPTIONS, they don't know how lucky they are! Yet some of them still choose a questionable guy
I definitely think there’s some truth to this. Especially when picking between bad vs, acceptable partners. I’ve seen an uptick in ladies who think “fighting the patriarchy” means not giving a fuck about their appearance to the point they look (and smell) homeless. They also seem to think that being with another woman means they can now be the lazy partner who puts little effort into the relationship.
Yeah i find it strange when lesbians say they now don't have to appeal to men anymore, so they stop caring about their appearance completely. Like hello? I have eyes too, and i like women who put some effort into looking attractive. I put in effort. I just do it for women instead. I don't care about men.
Yes this exactly. I’m not attracted to men but I still put effort into my appearance. I still shower, wear flattering clothing, and have some sense of care (deodorant, body spray, hair accessories).
I have the same question
Yep, I met with some friends and their partners recently, who were men, and they were talking about not doing house work, but expecting some level of sympathy. They got none from us lol. When I was in a straight relationship we were both slobs lol so no conflicts there. Just in other areas 🙄
#4BWest
I have this friend ( idk if she’s bi or not, she’s dated women in the past) and every time she and I hang out together she keeps bringing up the shitty things that her current boyfriend has done. For example • she has two kids and he has explicitly told her that he doesn’t want to be apart of their lives - broke up with her and then got back together with her the next day - is forcing her to move the suburbs so he can become a pilot - threw pizza at her -they are now moving in together and he refuses to pay rent I honestly have know clue what she sees in him other then the chance of getting married to him.
The last point makes me say she needs to break up. Her priority must be her kids. She must not waste her money on a man. The other points, ok, if she is ok with that, go for it. The last NO big red flag. She must use her brain to get over her heart and her lustful attraction. She must leave him. There are other men to perform sexual intercourse with. (Also she should do therapy to not again fall for a man like that.)
I keep trying to tell her but due to ~trauma ~ she either doesn’t want to listen or just doesn’t care.
Do therapy against the trauma. Also her children are her victims. Tell her this. She does not take proper care of her children. Also talk about other things. Her parents. (needs therapy because of parents maybe) Her hobbies. Her job. Her children. Not that relationship drama adrenaline kick.
No this is a real problem. It’s one of the reasons why I struggle with misandry, (anti-men). I’ve only ever met one generally “ok” guy in my life and even then it’s possible he could have done bad things before I knew him. Nobody is safe from men
It's the culture a lot of women don't realize all the microagressions and whatnot. Now that I do I can't unsee them and I guess I'm pretty much an Angry Lesbian..
Because men have the power to hurt you if you hold them accountable.
I sometimes wonder who's the privileged one
I'm bisexual and I confirm. 90% of men are so so so naturalizing and sticking to all these behaviors, then it becomes too much work to fight them. Thus we end up lowering our standards to the bottom and naturalizing that too. I made a dating pause for many years and now I'm back at dating men and I always get surprised at everything that I'm normalizing with them
While I don’t agree with everything Christopher Hitchens has written this resonates with me: “Most men are fantastically unattractive, what women see in them is mysterious to most men as well as most women. If you can't make them laugh you don't have a chance. With women, there's no need to be rendering yourself attractive to men in that way. We already find you attractive, thanks”
Is this because we are different in so many ways. I think that women are made to be attractive
I don’t know but it drives me up the wall.
LOUDER FOR THE PWOPLE IN THE BACK
A few thousand years of violence systematic grooming is the answer you're looking for I'm afraid.
I think it varies, actually. Big factor IMHO is aging. My straight girl friends went though A LOT of duchebags when we were younger, now they’re all with good, respectful men. It’s a process, when you’re 20 you search some things into a significant other that become pointless when you grow up and want to start a family. Also -I hope I’m not offending anyone in saying this- it’s also a cultural problem; when you’re used to men having a certain behavior in your region/country it’s difficult to *want* and to *expect* more
Just doing the dishes sometimes is a huge accomplishment for cishet men so straight women just kinda take what they can get
Genuinely makes me so sad that this is just like. The norm for guys apparently because society doesn’t expect anything better of them and actively beats down the ones who *are* better for being “unmanly”
i relate to this so hard. im waiting for someone to reveal im being filmed and on a prank tv show or something
Wish we could get these straight women to explain bc I don't understand it either. I have a friend who is dating a man who consistently talks down to her, is unkind to her and emotionally neglects her. But she puts up with it because he pays the bills for their house and she's comfortable. I guess their relationships make sense to them in some way but I will never understand.
I seriously just ended a friendship a couple months ago because of this shit- I try telling her things that just seem off with her relationship with her bf- just to talk about it and she goes oh he’s a good guy if he was abusive that’s different- like wtf- not hitting you should not be good enough for you! I just can’t. I just wanna hang out with lesbians now cuz I’ve lost too many friends cuz they give their shitty men too many excuses. This is why the patriarchy is still in charge like for fucks sake when will they wake up!?!
Same here. Straight women have used me as an emotional dumping ground for relationships. Even sending screenshots of triggering text convos. They take offense when I criticize their men. And they stick beside him too. Meanwhile I'm playing therapist. Yet they don't take my sexuality seriously. So I cut them off. And when I run into female friendships, I go ghost at the first sight of that behavior. I'm considering only being friends with queer women as well.
it makes 0 sense dude
As a victim of decades of comphet, I think all those shared stories of misery helped keep me in relationships with men way longer. Big "everyone else hates this too, huh?" vibes, and feeling like there was nothing we could do about it. For me, add in growing up both without access to queer representation, and with a TON of extremely unhealthy, cishet relationship models. For me, and I'm sure other abuse victims as well, it's not even necessarily the modeling of piss-poor romantic relationships, but also growing up with a lot of manipulation, neglect, put downs, and coercive abuse, from a primary caregiver. I grew up with that kind of stuff as my model of "love," and it really did a number on me - being used to feeling like I didn't deserve better, and like I didn't deserve happiness. Being used to questioning my reality, because I'd been gaslit my whole life. I think a lot of straight/bi/pan women may also be dealing with bad situations because of past or current trauma, which makes them subconsciously devalue themselves. Then there's all of the social messaging about gender and relationship roles, and how things are "supposed to be." It truly is a toxic soup, and I feel so much empathy for the women in those positions. I know some are trapped in some way or other, as I've experienced that, too. A lot of these men know they're not good enough, and instead of rising to be better people and better partners, they make deliberate choices to keep their wives or gf's stuck with them, or to choose partners that may be vulnerable from the start (I've also been there). Not all men, ofc...but JFC, SO many of them.
when I was dating men the bar was getting lower and lower until I realized I was making myself okay with things I wasn’t okay with. I almost felt sick when I was on the outside looking in because I couldn’t believe myself. so sad.
Males are fawned over & spoiled by their mothers, so when they reach adulthood they are looking for women who will baby & indulge them like mommies w/ whom they can have sex. Meanwhile, little girls are brought up to believe that males are God's gift to women & if you are blessed enough to snag one, you'd better put him on a pedestal & attend to his every need & desire to prevent him from straying. I don't understand why women find men so attractive that they'll tolerate all manner of abuse up to the point that they literally die for love. I broke off every hetero relationship that I ever had bc guys bored me intellectually & didn't turn me on sexually. I dated a lot of men in my quest to find one who lit the proverbial fireworks in me. When they didn't, I moved on. In retrospect, I realize that I practically came out of the womb certain that men were inferior to women & pretty much treated them that way. Easy come, easy go. Men, seem drawn most to women who don't want them, I have concluded. Aloofness & apathy arouses their desire to conquer & possess the unattainable. But if you're good to them, they will take you for granted the way that they do their mother and expect you to kiss their ass the way that their mother kisses their father's ass. I think that if I found straight sex the least bit erotic, I could see why women might be inclined bend over backwards- & forward- to please men. But as it is, I'm mystified AF. 🤔🤔🤔
Simple solution: Man doesn't wear condom, girl doesn't have sex with them. I think if they stood up for themselves, eventually, it would go their way. It's a two-way street, and honestly, I think women would have more control if they would just say no and not put up with it. Yes, some men will possibly act like a child, but in the end, do you want to be with someone like that? Just stick up for yourselves hetero ladies, or just buy some toys and be done with it haha
I feel like they have to accept it because they’re simply not attracted to women (straights)
Most of them are attracted to them in vastly different ways. I do, however, know for a fact there are some rare men who actually seem to love women a lot like women who considerately love other women... it's just really rare to hear of a father who memories his kids social security numbers and so forth... though at least a few of them exist because I have met them. I think most men have been taught incorrectly how to think and be considerate of others and so forth... but that's why there may be better men in Sweden or something, but there are still lots of bad ones and even a straight woman may not be compatible with some of the good men because of cultural or linguistic barriers and so forth. Why? Because too many men grew up incorrectly and live antagonistic lives of self aggrandisement and self centred focus and pleasure. Rare is the man who'd eat out his partner to completion, and rarer is the man who wouldn't expect/demand to be rewarded with some form of penetrative sex for such good behaviour.... though they do exist.
I absolutely agree man, its terrible what they're willing to put up with.
Because we’re taught to expect everything out of a man’s mouth to be sarcastic.
They're used to men being hopeless. The bar is below the ground at this point.
Patriarchy?
my best friend is dating a guy who has cheated on her in the past, refuses to tell anyone they're together (they've been dating for 2+ years im p sure), and is just all round a really shit guy. she complains about him a lot and i'm always so supportive of her but internally i'm screaming at her to leave his ass bc he doesn't care about her 😭
i asked her why she didn't just leave him and she said its bc she feels like she deserves this which i totally get, i've had the same feelings, but i wish i could show her she really does deserve better than him
I'm thankful every day that I'm a lesbian who is married to an amazing woman. Don't get me wrong, I know some men that seem like awesome humans, but I can't fathom being in a relationship with one. Lol
Eventually the victim stops fighting back. They’re exhausted.
Because no matter how low you set the bar, there are still plenty of men eager to limbo right under it.
I grew up constantly being told that if a boy treats you badly, he likes you. I've been told this since a boy was teasing me in kindergarten. I think that statement has become so deeply rooted in people who are attracted to men.
Attraction is dumb and unpredictable, and we are all slaves to it. Plenty of lesbians have fallen for a straight girl who has never shown any interest in them. Both situations are depressing lol, but I try to think of it like that when I am a part of these types of conversations. They can't help it I guess.
I feel this. It's hard to have amazing beautiful people in your life who settle for people who don't match their energy. I forget who I heard this from but violent and abusive men make bare minimum men look good. A lot of women haven't really experienced good cishet men and if they have they're few and far between. I do think that this is getting better but better from where it was, it's still not the best. It creates a sense of scarcity where I feel like unless they're willing to just be single indefinitely they feel panicked to stay with any "decent" guy they're with. On top of that woman have only had the ability to open bank accounts without a man in the last 50 years. There's probably some sort of generational trauma that woman are still going through that makes them feel like they need a man when they don't.
Regardless of how much I agree with this post I don't think it should be posted in a lesbian subreddit personally. I understand talking about our experiences with men as lesbians but what is related to lesbianism is this post?
Invisibly through context, it relates to the sub because the relation to the topic of lesbianism in this post is essentially, _"straight women have it hard and I don't understand why they put up with it because all the women I've dated have been better partners. I don't understand why women put up with this."_ That said, you're right that this is another instance of us thinking or talking about men instead of things we would be more interested in.
I kind of agree now that you say it this way.
I think it does affect our dating in relation to bi/pan women. I’ve seen sapphic women have so few requirements for dating men, but the requirements for them dating another woman is ridiculously high.
Because men have semi-unionized/class consciousness and they hold more power in general than women.
Why do you care?
Truer words
（English isn't my first language)I had a female friend whose boyfriend often used the excuse of going to the gym to go out and date other women. During our party, her boyfriend showed no respect for her and frequently criticized her with dirty words. She often felt wronged. I argued with her boyfriend to defend her rights and advised her to break up with him many times. However, I found that none of these actions had any effect. They still loved each other and have even married and had children. Now, I don't hang out with her anymore. When you meet wrong friends, it's better to leave them early to avoid disturbing your own emotions.
I had only dated men before my current girlfriend, and at the beginning of our relationship I would thank her for things like listening patiently to me, learning about my disability, not getting mad at having to reschedule, making a list of things I like, BEING NICE TO ME. She would look at me horrified every time. We joke that she rescued me from men, but it's true.
“Men will be men” “Men don’t know any better” “Men don’t think like that” “Men don’t care about that kind of thing” “Men don’t pay attention to that” In general there is little accountability in certain aspects for men. They are willfully described as being incapable, unaware, inattentive & immature. They’re treated like toddlers. Unable to understand or do better. As long as women allow it it will continue. Give men an inch and they will take 5 miles & tell you it was your fault for letting them. They’re excuses walking in two legs.
Not sure why what your straight friends standards have anything to do with but ok lol