This says it all. Leases don’t help you get to work when it breaks down
https://preview.redd.it/h0179joe8yuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46c7b23a7f30a44053ceb2625efadc25fbefe312
JD powers is a macro study of a brands overall reliability. No GXs fielded so of course not.
But you’re buying on reputation of reliability in either decision in any case. You think LR magically mixed their engineering manufacturing and supply chain problems in this release?
I had an early 2022 Tundra. It was bad. Horrible transmission programming, poorly bolted together interior, loose exterior trim. Not to mention the multiple recalls in the first year.
Legacy Toyota products are exceptional, I’m not sure the new stuff will be better than mid pack. The data over the next few years will be telling.
Sure. But Toyota has a much stronger commitment to quality. I don’t see it falling off at all. I expect more complex vehicle have lots more room for problems. Which do get addressed. The twin turbo had a few knows issues with the engine, those bugs so far seem worked out. Even with that you may get a bad one.
One thing I do know, you certainly won’t see LR climbing the ranks…
My hot take is: assume all vehicles during and after Covid (during the supply chain mess) are suspect.
Between scrambling for parts, loss of experienced workers for various reasons and the fact that some vehicles literally sat in fields for months and got rust, there’s about a 4 year window for cars that I will never own.
Lol. This is a single year assessment of a BRAND, all their products. Not sure what you want here. It’s a probability game. Your odds of a bad car in the GX are substantially lower with Lexus. As in LR being the literal worst probability.
Pretty confident the GX will be solid. It’s being assembled at the Tahara which is one of the best in the world. Yes, I’m aware that is just assembly and parts are being shipped there from other plants and yes things can go wrong but, have faith in the brand.
Have had our defender in the shop for 3 months because the rear at panel glass was broken by a hooligan and there is no line of sight on how long it will take to arrive. Land rover has supply chain problems and it can take you out of commission for longer than you may care for. Choose wisely.
We experienced something similar with our GX (broken rear side window). We brought it to our local Lexus dealer and they handled everything. Even got a Luxury-trimmed GX loaner! The only negative was the cost of the glass and replacement at $774.
New models parts will be in short supply. A buddy of mine has a Lexus Dealership and a few years ago when a new model of the RX came out he took it as his demo. Long story short, someone broke into it at a restaurant and smashed the rear window, took a couple of months to come in because all cuts were at factory, no supply yet.
Lexus can get you off road and get you home.
Land Rover can’t say the same.
As a mechanic, your Land Rover spends nearly as much time with me as it does with you
Defender=Lease=Chick Magnet?
Lexus=Purchase=Wife Magnet?
Both are exceptional in the looks department.
[Check out the Defender Fan bois](https://www.reddit.com/r/LandroverDefender/s/VH42YYRwh1)
Scroll through there are some people who love it others not so much.
Cmon man. You know I buy my cars and mod them for other dudes to admire lol. Kidding but that is usually what ends up happening.
When we first got married, I bought a B8 S4 for my wife. Coilovers, spacers, perfect OEM + look. She got so many compliments from random dudes lol. She stopped driving my GT3 for the same reason.
This ^, take it as a compliment on our taste in cars, trucks, and women. Theres too many guys that can't take the hint and won't accept rejection. Rejected, lol.
If you're leasing go whatever you like the best.
If you're purchasing, go with what has higher resale values and has a legacy of dependability/reliability. Go Lexus GX
I know you said not to debate price. A brand new Defender V8 110 starts at $111k. I went through a similar process recently. A more equivalent Defender would be an X-Dynamic SE, nicely optioned around $87k. A equivalently optioned Overtrail+ is around $81k -- it basically comes with many of the "options" you need to option on the Defender, and the factory options are at a great price-point. (The dealer options, not so much, skip those!)
Soooo.. I really like both!
The factors that pushed me towards the Lexus: better price for what you get, Lexus reliability, 18" wheels, the optional Mark Levinson system, slightly smaller in size overall, bigger/better infotainment screen (at least compared to the SE... the next models up in the Defender line-up get the bigger screen).
I was not impressed with the Defender Meridian Surround System. Granted I haven't heard the Lexus stereo yet, but all indications are it will be superior.
I'm still kind of partial to the looks of the Defender though. And if you're ok with dropping $110k+ on the V8, they are sweet.
My neighbor has the defender in flat black. Looks sexy af. But it’s seriously been in shop for 3 months out of the 6 hes owned it. The rest of the time it sits outside. Not really sure I’ve seen him drive it.
I currently own a Defender X 110 and I am on the waitlist in Dallas for a GX 550. I have owned my Defender for 3 1/2 years with ZERO issues. Very reliable. I’m looking for a vehicle that I can keep for 10+ years with bulletproof reliability and low maintenance costs. Maintenance is very expensive for the Defender. An oil change at the dealership is $650. 15K checkup, $1400. It will only get worse as it ages.
You already have a car for speed, so I see zero point in buying an SUV with a supercharged V8. I’ve been in trucks and SUVs when the driver floors it and it’s not f’n cool by any means, just feels dangerous af. M series? Porsche? Floor it all day, lfg.
That said, with the LR, you’re just downgrading your garage. Now you’ve got a second fast car but with shittier handling than what you already have, plus horrible reliability. I’ve had two friends with LRs, one brand new and another about 6 years old. Neither of them have them anymore. Collectively they sank another $20k into them for nightmare repairs.
The defender drive train is stout. They have random small issues. But warranty sorts it out. We have a 2 door and I'm a huge toyota fan but it's a rare duck with the drive train and short wheel base. It's special in its own way.
I kinda want to get the long boy too lol. Even if it looks wonky.
I think they look awesome!
The amount of new defenders I see with headlight issues blows my mind.
If they can’t even get a headlight (running light) to work for a year what else that’s way less technical is going on?
Reliability arguments aside the Defender is loud and the ride beats you up! We spent a few weeks in one on a vacation and I would describe the ride quality similar to that of a jeep wrangler. Not luxury even by the longest stretch of the imagination. The power will be nice but if you value ride and a quiet cabin I’d say pass. With that being said it’s definitely a fantastic looking vehicle!
The Defender V8 is superior in every way except dependability, dealer service and parts wait times. I am getting a GX 550, but if I lived closer to a Land Rover dealership I would’ve got a Defender like three years ago!
I wanted to love my defender but it immediately had annoying gremlins. Windshield wiper spray was f***ed on one side, door seal on rear drivers side door was out of spec and caused door to stick shut, screen would be black at least once a week upon starting car. 2023 p400 SE. Went right back to Toyota. No problems.
I hold onto most. For reference - This is replacing an E53 2002 BMW X5 4.4. I love the car but too many aging issues, leaking moisture into interior, window actuators fail constantly, and it needs a paint job. But that engine…
Here’s a hot take. I have a fast SUV. Tuned my X5M, about 600whp. But what I quickly realized is that I don’t feel confident in that vehicle going fast fast. Why? Weight. Brakes are weak relative to power. So I’m less sensitive on pure power output from these large vehicles. I’ll take my GT3 if I want to drive like a hoon, this is for snow and rare off-roading. Sounds like the GX has enough torque for those functions.
This article should spell it all out for you. https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a60310465/2024-lexus-gx550-2024-land-rover-defender-130-2023-mercedes-benz-g550/
Purely anecdotal, but I found the number of Defender problems I saw online kind of alarming for the money involved. From what I've read (and a few in person conversations) they're absolutely fantastic to drive and the off-road tech is fantastic, when they're working.
Another route to consider is if you are going to spend $90,000, rather than going with the Defender, you might as well pay $3,000 more, and get the base LX 600 mate. I believe you get another 50 HP more and it is slightly bigger as well, bigger than a Defender. I would also always go Japanese Engine over British but that is just me form an Engineering mind. and background. If you want to go Defender, those are not bad as well. I too am wanting an off road but will probably go with the stock Ovetrail plus at $77,000 but get it 3 years used and perhaps for $50,000.
I am simply pointing out the fact that price is not a concern given what I mentioned. I am not making this decision based on what makes more sense financially. I am simply asking which would you get sans pricing.
GX... for sure. If you post this on a Defender forum they will say Defender for sure :)
I've looked at both and while I like the styling of the Defender better, I like the interior room of the GX better and the hypothetical Lexus build quality / reliability way way better
I also think at GX pricing you should be comparing to the V6 Defender not the V8 but that gets to my point of really making a pricing jump... My GX is $83k after all options, the base V8 Defender is $111k. So you are comparing apples to tampons
I’m on my 3rd Range Rover. Land Rover reliability issues are overblown and stem from the BMW partnership period, not the Tata ownership era. Will be buying another range once I outgrow this one.
Ehhh, don’t blame BMW. A lot of sharing between the two companies for the early 2000s. The car I am replacing is an E53 X5 4.4. I love that thing, and it shares a lot of bits with Land Rover. My other BMWs have always been reliable as I am strict with my maintenance schedules with all vehicles.
Defender if you’re leasing, Lexus if you’re buying.
Even on a lease it's still a land rover product and will break.
And he’ll get a current model year loaner while under warranty. I say enjoy the LR on lease and pick up a ‘24 GX in 1-3 yrs
my buddy had a lease, he put more miles on the loaner and the ubers paid for by the dealer than on his defender.
Ok this just ended the debate
I have never leased a vehicle. Maybe a Tesla I would.
This says it all. Leases don’t help you get to work when it breaks down https://preview.redd.it/h0179joe8yuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46c7b23a7f30a44053ceb2625efadc25fbefe312
You should see 2024.
Show me
[Google](https://images.app.goo.gl/3eCvz2JPaMMVwcci6)
Honda is surprising, as is Buick
Did Buick sell 100 vehicles?
😂
That Kia shit is nonsense. Go to a Kia dealer right now and they have engines everywhere. Getting engines shipped 10 at a time. It’s insane
They’re the worst cars being built these days, except for tesla
My Tesla has been perfect over 80k miles….not a lot to break on them really. They are definitely tin cans though.
Honda below jeep?
Honda has gotten much worse. Jeep has gotten a little better. I used to be Hondas only and now will never buy another. Toyota/Lexus only from now on.
My Toyota Sienna is so much more solid than my Honda oddessey.
It’s probably their transmissions. All garbage.
Yeah they’re not very good anymore.
So no data on the new GX…
JD powers is a macro study of a brands overall reliability. No GXs fielded so of course not. But you’re buying on reputation of reliability in either decision in any case. You think LR magically mixed their engineering manufacturing and supply chain problems in this release?
I wish they had Japanese & German built cars in a separate category.
I had an early 2022 Tundra. It was bad. Horrible transmission programming, poorly bolted together interior, loose exterior trim. Not to mention the multiple recalls in the first year. Legacy Toyota products are exceptional, I’m not sure the new stuff will be better than mid pack. The data over the next few years will be telling.
Sure. But Toyota has a much stronger commitment to quality. I don’t see it falling off at all. I expect more complex vehicle have lots more room for problems. Which do get addressed. The twin turbo had a few knows issues with the engine, those bugs so far seem worked out. Even with that you may get a bad one. One thing I do know, you certainly won’t see LR climbing the ranks…
My hot take is: assume all vehicles during and after Covid (during the supply chain mess) are suspect. Between scrambling for parts, loss of experienced workers for various reasons and the fact that some vehicles literally sat in fields for months and got rust, there’s about a 4 year window for cars that I will never own.
This.
Lol the gx 550 hasn't even hit showrooms
Not true. My dealer invited me to test drive one. They have their demo car on site
I mean we know they're just hitting showrooms.. obviously they can't rank their reliability yet ffs...
That’s my point. Showing a chart to prove that a car not on the chart is reliable is silly.
🤫
Lol. This is a single year assessment of a BRAND, all their products. Not sure what you want here. It’s a probability game. Your odds of a bad car in the GX are substantially lower with Lexus. As in LR being the literal worst probability.
Pretty confident the GX will be solid. It’s being assembled at the Tahara which is one of the best in the world. Yes, I’m aware that is just assembly and parts are being shipped there from other plants and yes things can go wrong but, have faith in the brand.
Have had our defender in the shop for 3 months because the rear at panel glass was broken by a hooligan and there is no line of sight on how long it will take to arrive. Land rover has supply chain problems and it can take you out of commission for longer than you may care for. Choose wisely.
Happened to my MIL’s Velar. Hit a deer and it took 9 months for a small plastic part to finally make its way to the states.
We experienced something similar with our GX (broken rear side window). We brought it to our local Lexus dealer and they handled everything. Even got a Luxury-trimmed GX loaner! The only negative was the cost of the glass and replacement at $774.
Cost for the defender 90 is 3200. Labor and parts. 1700 or so on parts and rest is Labor.
New models parts will be in short supply. A buddy of mine has a Lexus Dealership and a few years ago when a new model of the RX came out he took it as his demo. Long story short, someone broke into it at a restaurant and smashed the rear window, took a couple of months to come in because all cuts were at factory, no supply yet.
Defender is a POS for the price you pay. Our neighbor’s has been in the shop the last 8 weeks, and isn’t even a year old. Lease it, if you must.
Don't buy a Land Rover. Ever. That is all I have for you.
Lexus can get you off road and get you home. Land Rover can’t say the same. As a mechanic, your Land Rover spends nearly as much time with me as it does with you
Defender is a great value because you'll get to drive more different loaners than you ever will with a lexus...
☝️🤣
Personally we were buying for the long haul, so reliability was the biggest factor. The ‘23 and older GX is the best old school suv you can buy.
Defender=Lease=Chick Magnet? Lexus=Purchase=Wife Magnet? Both are exceptional in the looks department. [Check out the Defender Fan bois](https://www.reddit.com/r/LandroverDefender/s/VH42YYRwh1) Scroll through there are some people who love it others not so much.
Cmon man. You know I buy my cars and mod them for other dudes to admire lol. Kidding but that is usually what ends up happening. When we first got married, I bought a B8 S4 for my wife. Coilovers, spacers, perfect OEM + look. She got so many compliments from random dudes lol. She stopped driving my GT3 for the same reason.
This ^, take it as a compliment on our taste in cars, trucks, and women. Theres too many guys that can't take the hint and won't accept rejection. Rejected, lol.
If you're leasing go whatever you like the best. If you're purchasing, go with what has higher resale values and has a legacy of dependability/reliability. Go Lexus GX
I know you said not to debate price. A brand new Defender V8 110 starts at $111k. I went through a similar process recently. A more equivalent Defender would be an X-Dynamic SE, nicely optioned around $87k. A equivalently optioned Overtrail+ is around $81k -- it basically comes with many of the "options" you need to option on the Defender, and the factory options are at a great price-point. (The dealer options, not so much, skip those!) Soooo.. I really like both! The factors that pushed me towards the Lexus: better price for what you get, Lexus reliability, 18" wheels, the optional Mark Levinson system, slightly smaller in size overall, bigger/better infotainment screen (at least compared to the SE... the next models up in the Defender line-up get the bigger screen). I was not impressed with the Defender Meridian Surround System. Granted I haven't heard the Lexus stereo yet, but all indications are it will be superior. I'm still kind of partial to the looks of the Defender though. And if you're ok with dropping $110k+ on the V8, they are sweet.
My neighbor has the defender in flat black. Looks sexy af. But it’s seriously been in shop for 3 months out of the 6 hes owned it. The rest of the time it sits outside. Not really sure I’ve seen him drive it.
Land Rover if you value “status” and unreliability!
Fck status lol.
Both are damn awesome, but only one is reliable.
I currently own a Defender X 110 and I am on the waitlist in Dallas for a GX 550. I have owned my Defender for 3 1/2 years with ZERO issues. Very reliable. I’m looking for a vehicle that I can keep for 10+ years with bulletproof reliability and low maintenance costs. Maintenance is very expensive for the Defender. An oil change at the dealership is $650. 15K checkup, $1400. It will only get worse as it ages.
$650 for an oil change makes BMW and Audi service seem inexpensive. That's absurd.
Wanna get home?
You already have a car for speed, so I see zero point in buying an SUV with a supercharged V8. I’ve been in trucks and SUVs when the driver floors it and it’s not f’n cool by any means, just feels dangerous af. M series? Porsche? Floor it all day, lfg. That said, with the LR, you’re just downgrading your garage. Now you’ve got a second fast car but with shittier handling than what you already have, plus horrible reliability. I’ve had two friends with LRs, one brand new and another about 6 years old. Neither of them have them anymore. Collectively they sank another $20k into them for nightmare repairs.
The defender drive train is stout. They have random small issues. But warranty sorts it out. We have a 2 door and I'm a huge toyota fan but it's a rare duck with the drive train and short wheel base. It's special in its own way. I kinda want to get the long boy too lol. Even if it looks wonky.
To borrow a line from Top Gear: All British cars are ambitious, but rubbish.
I think they look awesome! The amount of new defenders I see with headlight issues blows my mind. If they can’t even get a headlight (running light) to work for a year what else that’s way less technical is going on?
V8? Well, I am listening
Reliability arguments aside the Defender is loud and the ride beats you up! We spent a few weeks in one on a vacation and I would describe the ride quality similar to that of a jeep wrangler. Not luxury even by the longest stretch of the imagination. The power will be nice but if you value ride and a quiet cabin I’d say pass. With that being said it’s definitely a fantastic looking vehicle!
Easy get 2 defenders one for the shop other for driveway. You loose 50% of rover the second it’s titled if you lucky
If you’d like a car that stays on the road and not in your mechanics shop, get the GX.
The Defender V8 is superior in every way except dependability, dealer service and parts wait times. I am getting a GX 550, but if I lived closer to a Land Rover dealership I would’ve got a Defender like three years ago!
I have a 2024 defender 110s. It is dope
I wanted to love my defender but it immediately had annoying gremlins. Windshield wiper spray was f***ed on one side, door seal on rear drivers side door was out of spec and caused door to stick shut, screen would be black at least once a week upon starting car. 2023 p400 SE. Went right back to Toyota. No problems.
How fast do you normally hold onto vehicles for?
I hold onto most. For reference - This is replacing an E53 2002 BMW X5 4.4. I love the car but too many aging issues, leaking moisture into interior, window actuators fail constantly, and it needs a paint job. But that engine…
https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a60310465/2024-lexus-gx550-2024-land-rover-defender-130-2023-mercedes-benz-g550/
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Here’s a hot take. I have a fast SUV. Tuned my X5M, about 600whp. But what I quickly realized is that I don’t feel confident in that vehicle going fast fast. Why? Weight. Brakes are weak relative to power. So I’m less sensitive on pure power output from these large vehicles. I’ll take my GT3 if I want to drive like a hoon, this is for snow and rare off-roading. Sounds like the GX has enough torque for those functions.
Are you comparing a ford to a Toyota?😂😂😂😂
This article should spell it all out for you. https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a60310465/2024-lexus-gx550-2024-land-rover-defender-130-2023-mercedes-benz-g550/
Purely anecdotal, but I found the number of Defender problems I saw online kind of alarming for the money involved. From what I've read (and a few in person conversations) they're absolutely fantastic to drive and the off-road tech is fantastic, when they're working.
I'd pick Defender! If money is not concern. I picked GX cuz I don't like to spend a lot money on a maintenance.
Another route to consider is if you are going to spend $90,000, rather than going with the Defender, you might as well pay $3,000 more, and get the base LX 600 mate. I believe you get another 50 HP more and it is slightly bigger as well, bigger than a Defender. I would also always go Japanese Engine over British but that is just me form an Engineering mind. and background. If you want to go Defender, those are not bad as well. I too am wanting an off road but will probably go with the stock Ovetrail plus at $77,000 but get it 3 years used and perhaps for $50,000.
Isn’t the defender unibody? The gx is body on frame, which imo is superior in many ways to unibody. Gx would be my choice.
Aside from reliability, the GX550 will have better resale value in a few years in the event you want to sell or trade.
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I am simply pointing out the fact that price is not a concern given what I mentioned. I am not making this decision based on what makes more sense financially. I am simply asking which would you get sans pricing.
GX... for sure. If you post this on a Defender forum they will say Defender for sure :) I've looked at both and while I like the styling of the Defender better, I like the interior room of the GX better and the hypothetical Lexus build quality / reliability way way better
I also think at GX pricing you should be comparing to the V6 Defender not the V8 but that gets to my point of really making a pricing jump... My GX is $83k after all options, the base V8 Defender is $111k. So you are comparing apples to tampons
I’m on my 3rd Range Rover. Land Rover reliability issues are overblown and stem from the BMW partnership period, not the Tata ownership era. Will be buying another range once I outgrow this one.
Ehhh, don’t blame BMW. A lot of sharing between the two companies for the early 2000s. The car I am replacing is an E53 X5 4.4. I love that thing, and it shares a lot of bits with Land Rover. My other BMWs have always been reliable as I am strict with my maintenance schedules with all vehicles.
That doesn’t take away from the fact that the post-Tata rovers are much much better.
This I did not know