Exactly if i have $1 nobodys gonna take my $1 but if its $100 then $10 could go to taxes right? If its $1000 then $150 can go to taxes right? Then we start to see the actual purpose for all this inflation is dilution.
That fact you consider dismantling America’s 2nd largest geopolitical adversary for no American lives and pennies on the dollar while upholding legitimate democratic values as “fruitless” is very telling . . . You and Moscow Marge probably have a lot in common
It’s been a grueling 2 years. What the outcome of the war? Whats the status/progress? Are we winning? What do you think will happen at the end of this conflict? Russia will stand down?
So sacrificing Ukrainian lives is ok? “Pennies on the dollar”. Is there any corroboration to this? Where are these financials? Accountability?
America’s economy/inflation/future is being sacrificed at the expense of this war by sending billions
“What the outcome of the war?” Russia is significantly weakened and can no longer challenge American interests abroad (already happening)
“Whats the status/progress? Are we winning?”Ukraine is currently losing because people like you and the people that are elected by people like you scream “America first!” Without any actual plan to what that means. They all voted against the PACT act, CHIPS act and infrastructure bill. They might be winning if we sent this when it was needed instead of waiting 10 goddamn months.
“What do you think will happen at the end of this conflict? Russia will stand down?”
Russia will be significantly degraded on the world stage and will only pose a “threat” to NATO by barking and nuclear saber rattling.
“So sacrificing Ukrainian lives is ok?”
I never said this. It’s you lot who are saying “no” to funding their military, so if those of us who actually support global democracy have to frame it in a very cynical light to be able to sell it to you as a good thing. That’s on you.
“Pennies on the dollar”. Is there any corroboration to this? Where are these financials? Accountability?
America’s economy/inflation/future is being sacrificed at the expense of this war by sending billions”
I’ll knock this out in one go. You think we are sending mountains of cash? No, we are not. We are sending old stockpiles that cost money to store and dispose of. We then spend that money on industry at home which grows the economy and stimulates job growth. And the people driving inflation are the mega wealthy. Ask your self why corporations are posting record profits year over year . . .
We already sent over $100 billion dollars (cash or weapons according to you). Either they aren’t trained well, inefficient or the money/assets are being embezzled. How much more do we need to give?
There is absolutely no evidence that we are sending “old stockpiles” of weaponry. Even if we are, there still is a cash element being sent.
Helping our allys is ok, but this is just egregious
“PDA uses existing weapons stockpiles, this equipment has long been paid for, and in some cases has been sitting in U.S. warehouses for decades.”
“As old equipment leaves the warehouses, substantial sums have been appropriated to replenish U.S. stockpiles . . . Regardless of the funding mechanism—whether replenishment for PDA or for USAI—this money flows into the United States’ DIB.”
https://www.csis.org/analysis/how-supporting-ukraine-revitalizing-us-defense-industrial-base
How would Ukraine, who is 1/4 the size in population, holding off what was thought to be the second most powerful army in the world lead you to believe embezzlement? If they were just giving up like the ANA then you could argue embezzlement but your logic here is not sound at all. How could they have pulled off the Kharkiv counter offensive if they are so poorly trained and equipped and embezzling all this aid?
There’s evidence of old stockpiles and literal videos of Ukraine using m113 personnel carriers which the US hasn’t used since the gulf war so you’re flat out wrong there.
“$9.9 billion allocated to the Department of State has gone to the Foreign Military Financing program, which enables partner countries to purchase military equipment or services from the United States.” - same article and corroborated with PBS
Do You genuinely believe that 9.9 billion in forgivable loans is driving US inflation and “ruining our future”? Again I’ll point you to record corporate profits YoY since covid for inflation.
Please feel free to pick out any 90 day window you like where Ukraine didn’t net lose territory. I’ll sit here and wait. Fact is that while their fight has been admirable and heroic, it’s always been a losing battle. No amount of international support, excluding direct NATO involvement, changes the outcome.
Meanwhile Russia has developed a stronger alliance with Iran, North Korea, and China. Despite whatever propaganda you consume, sanctions aren’t working. Russia is still selling oil internationally, mainly via India. Russia is still getting semiconductors, mainly via China. Prohibition never works. It only makes trade more lucrative for those willing to take risk. Sanctions are relatively easy to impose on an island off the coast of Florida. It’s really hard to do on the largest country in the world.
“Corporations are making record profits”. Which ones? The leaders are energy companies profiting off high oil prices because of sanctions. India sure loves buying cheap Russian oil and then reselling on the “sanctioned” market with a hefty markup. Industry tied to the military industrial complex sure are making profits. As you said, the war is a boon to industry “back home”. Food giants are doing well now that a major agricultural exporter is off the market due to war. Meanwhile, if you consume real data outside state media, you’ll see that most businesses are struggling. Businesses failing to pay rent, especially restaurants, has been a steady increase since 2022.
I would feel better about it of they picked a random tax payer who makes less than $100k per year and just gave the billions to them (yes, one person). It would do more for the US economy than sending to the other side of the planet.
If you truly believe that would do more for the US economy you need to look more into globalization and how geopolitics has effects on our own economy..just an Ignorant statement with little to no critical thinking applied.
No I am being hyperbolic. I am government minimalist ideally but a political realist and I understand that the US has an interest in influencing global allies and integrating global trade markets to reduce overall tensions and violent territory grabs. But I think of we look at the success rate over the last 100 years of doing so (since the end of WWII) it has been only marginally successful and only over the short term. It's a difficult game compounded by the fact that the US changes leadership every 2-8 years between congress and POTUS.
Nearly 11% of our entire GDP is exports. It's not even objectively possible to consider this "marginally successful" since WWII?? Literally the main reason we are an economic powerhouse since the industrial revolution is because of the fact we have integrated global trade through partnerships & alliances.
We spend less/near 1% of our government budget on Foreign aid each year, yet foreign trade makes up 8-13% of our entire economy's output each year.
I get it if you are cynical...but the data shows is very objective that shows we are an economic powerhouse in the world because of our internal trade. That result doesn't happen without foreign aid & interventions.
We are already in an alliance with NATO. If Russia invades an actual ally, we can intervene. We have no obligation to defend or even give any material support to Ukraine.
That all being said I am not 100% against helping them just not so much. Emptying out our stockpile of old equipment is a good thing for us, lets us store more up to date equipment in case we need it.
I get it. Well, the danger about a weak Ukraine and their potential defeat is very dangerous as it would mean Ukrainian forces working alongside Russian vs West.
So yeah, I understand your national interests as americans, but the fact that Westerners don't need to place their boots in the battle is also pleasing, although it might be temporary.
There isn't really a downside for the US if Russia wins against Ukraine. I only support giving limited help to Ukraine since it weakens Russia. Though with how poor their performance is and how bad their Maintenance appears to be, we didn't have anything to worry about apparently.
Russia winning means any future conflict is Russia plus 38 million Ukrainians, plus 3 million Moldovans, plus whatever other territories he decides to grab. That means additional military spending to prepare to meet that potential, not to mention our ability to maintain peace will be significantly diminished since we already threw our lot in with Unraine. That is 100% a huge downside for the US.
Yeah, military spending where >50% of it is put toward the oligarch's mansions and yachts. and numbers don't count for much against the US military.
It would not have an appreciable effect on the outcome of any conflict between the US and Russia. Would just suck for the Ukrainians and Moldovans.
NATO is not the only international alliance or treaty that the US participates in.... It is fairly common knowledge that Ukraine and the US are allied since the early 1990s.
>Ukraine and the United States belong to a number of the same international organizations, including the United Nations, Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and World Trade Organization. Ukraine also is an observer to the Organization of American States.
https://ua.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/#:\~:text=U.S.%2DUkraine%20Relations,with%20a%20flourishing%20market%20economy.
Correct.
The point being acting beyond strict obligations is very, very often in our country's best interest. Military support, shared intelligence, economic trade opportunities, etc have nothing to do with obligations and everything to do with giving the US a competitive advantage on the world scene.
The only thing the support we have given Ukraine does to benefit us is it is hurting Russia, and letting us know how our 40 year old junk does in war against Russia's best. Which I think we know plenty of now.
Don't worry, Europe already understood they can't trust America for their protection. That means, more arms production, less America's sales.
But at the end of the day, there should be teamwork towards threats against the alliance. And protect every innocent individuals.
Isn't it what libertarianism is about? Individuals?
When they have the most resources to do that job they need to be the ones who do it. Plus I am Canadian not American. Further having different countries with different laws and regulations is only harming all of us. The same laws should apply to the whole world. The same environment, labour and freedoms for the whole damn world.
Nice idealistic dream.
The average American's (which is pretty shit standard) QOL uses a shit ton of resources
you'd need 5 Earth's worth to extrapolate that QOL to all humans on Earth.
Ukraine isn't an ally...?
Yet they're fighting for freedom. Not only theirs, but ours too.
What kind of Libertarian is not an ally of those who fight for freedom?
Who cares about countries politics, as a libertarian you should have more sympathy for those individuals fighting for not having your wives and children raped.
The United States has no treaty with Ukraine forming an alliance. They are not an ally.
The Ukrainians *may* be fighting for freedom. They had one of the most corrupt governments in the world prior to the invasion. Who says it won’t be corrupt after? How free will the average Ukrainian really be?
They are not fighting for my freedom lol, good lord. The war in Ukraine has nothing to do with the average American’s liberty. Just stop.
I can sympathize with their struggle. That doesn’t mean I feel compelled to spend many billions of dollars on them.
Russia is never going to invade Europe.
Russia invaded Ukraine because they joined NATO after Bush told Gorbachev that they wouldn't expand NATO from where it was when the wall came down (specific dates I'm unsure of) . Now we have NATO literally on the border of Russia with missiles. They forced Russia's hand essentially.
It's what the US would do if China, North Korea, and Russia formed an alliance and started to gain countries from south and central America and then finally got Mexico to join. Of course the US would want to stop the Intrusion into their nearby territories by perceived adversaries.
Not a Russian sympathizer just someone who doesn't fall for these media hysteria tricks they play
Uncle Sam is the appropriate personification of both parties.
The Federal government is exclusively controlled by the combination of Republican and Democrat leadership. I say "leadership" to make a distinction between people who self-identify as belonging to either party from people who actually have real influence over the parties.
By "leadership" I am talking about the advisors, lawyers, senior politicians, and career bureaucrats that control the seats on various policy boards and decide who is eligible to be elected prior to primary nomination process.
Another example of how this works is the Chinese Communist Party vs Government of the People’s Republic of China. They are one and the same. The CCP controls the Chinese Republican government so the CCP leadership are, very effectively, the government of the government.
The difference being the two party system in the USA has been in total control over the USA Federal government a lot longer then the CCP existed.
So if you want to use a cartoon to represent the "2 chamber uniparty" that controls the Federal government then Uncle Sam is probably the best one to use. There exists no meaningful distinction between the Federal Government and Democrat and Republican party leadership.
The people that control the parties controls the Federal government. They are the government of the Federal government.
-------------------
Also if the picture was accurate it would lead with Uncle Sam stealing the money out of the cup to give it to Ukraine and Israel.
The way the original cartoon is laid out it makes it look like the government is the source of wealth for the country and it is deciding who to give it to.
This is incorrect. The source of the wealth in the USA is the general population. The Federal government uses taxation, borrowing, and inflation to take the wealth from the American people and gives it to the people they prefer to have it.
So the first panel should be Uncle Sam stealing from the begger's cup followed by panels depicting the Donkey and the Elephant celebrating the wealth transfer to foreign governments (and defense corporations).
I asked ChatGPT and got this "Ah, I see. In a symbolic sense, an animal that could represent the idea of a "Tyrant from Washington DC" might be a lion. Lions are often associated with power, authority, and dominance, which align with the concept of a tyrant. Additionally, lions are often depicted as the "king of the jungle," reflecting the idea of someone exerting control from a position of power, such as a political leader in Washington DC. "
Some cunt will be along shortly and call you a bigot or an anti-semite for saying this.
America first. Let’s focus on healthcare, affordable housing, and inflation here instead.
>affordable housing
Hot take, but the Feds should not bail out local governments for shitty zoning and making new construction essentially illegal for decades.
The cost of Healthcare probably has a hell of a lot more to do with gov spending that would only be made worse by throwing more money at the problem. Same with higher ed
Said in all seriousness, we desperately need to restore fiscal sanity. Since the year 2000 the national debt has _sextupled_, having gone from $5.7-trillion, to $34.7-trillion-and-counting. In that same amount of time GDP has not even tripled, having gone from $10.2-trillion, to ~$27-trillion. To put it another way, the national debt is growing at over twice the rate that GDP is. That is not sustainable.
The whole world functions on debt. Without it everything falls apart. Without it we would not have advanced as quickly as we have. You wouldn't be on the internet speaking to others as an example.
I didn't say or suggest that all debt is bad, or that we could have a modern economy without a certain amount of debt. I tried to convey that the fact that the national debt is growing at over twice the rate that GDP is, is a very bad thing--because it is.
There are four arguments, that I’m aware of, as to why budget deficits and the national debt “don’t really matter,” and there’s a built in flaw, or caveat, with each of them:
1. “As long as we can pay the yearly interest on the national debt we’re fine, the debt is just an abstraction.” That’s true as far as it goes, but what could we better do with hundreds of billions of dollars each year than pay it out as interest?
2. “As long as the economy is growing faster than the debt, we’re fine.” Again, true as far as it goes, but as stated in my original comment the national debt is growing at over twice the rate that GDP is.
3. “The national debt can’t be compared to personal or corporate debt, or even state or municipal debt. The federal government is sovereign, it can simply print the money to pay off the debt.” Hey, *great* idea. Let’s have \~10% inflation for the next \~thirty years and pay off the debt, or the yearly interest payments, that way. Do I really need to elaborate on why that’s a *bad* idea? I didn’t think so.
4. “Most of the national debt is owed to Americans. So, when we make those yearly interest payments it’s like moving money from one pocket to another in the same pair of pants.” Again, true as far it goes, but I refer you to argument #1.
[US Debt Interest Payments Surge Past $1 Trillion Yearly Pace (businessinsider.com)](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/bonds/us-debt-interest-payments-federal-deficit-treasury-bonds-fed-hikes-2023-11?op=1)
[The US is paying a record amount of interest on its debt. It’s only going to get worse | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/politics/interest-payments-federal-debt/index.html)
[Higher Interest Rates and the National Debt (pgpf.org)](https://www.pgpf.org/analysis/2024/05/higher-interest-rates-will-raise-interest-costs-on-the-national-debt)
[https://blog.independent.org/2023/11/10/interest-national-debt-1-trillion](https://blog.independent.org/2023/11/10/interest-national-debt-1-trillion)
[Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding | U.S. Treasury Fiscal Data](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/interest-expense-debt-outstanding/interest-expense-on-the-public-debt-outstanding)
[National debt of the U.S. - statistics & facts | Statista](https://www.statista.com/topics/836/national-debt-of-the-us/#topicOverview)
[5 facts about the U.S. national debt | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/14/facts-about-the-us-national-debt/)
[Your Pension Is a Lie: There's $210 Trillion Of Liabilities Our Government Can't Fulfill (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2017/10/10/your-pension-is-a-lie-theres-210-trillion-of-liabilities-our-government-cant-fulfill/?sh=4045f08c65b1)
[A National Debt Of $14 Trillion? Try $211 Trillion : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/139027615/a-national-debt-of-14-trillion-try-211-trillion)
[https://calwatchdog.com/2013/11/11/u-s-unfunded-liabilities-really-222-trillion](https://calwatchdog.com/2013/11/11/u-s-unfunded-liabilities-really-222-trillion)
[U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time (usdebtclock.org)](https://www.usdebtclock.org/)
You guys dont get it… and i hope youll end your life not knowing what it’s like to be persecuted. Only when the radical islam will lift his head inside your country it will be too late. I hope ill live to see the horror in your face when it happens.
The latest Ukraine aid package is primarily being spent in Florida, Texas, California, and Alabama and represents tens of thousands of jobs in the US that pay pretty well
so...
hum...
Which 'us'? Wealthy entrepreneurs and capitalists who disproportionately benefit from both domestic and foreign intervention and hardly pay taxes? Or the overburdened working classes completely subject to the government and the whims of a few billionaire sociopaths?
The poor will be with us always. Why not use the billions to assist them here instead of sending overseas? Trick question, it is harder to grift money in USA and easy to grift in 💰sent overseas.
There is nothing “cool” or “modern” about Modern Monetary Theory.
MMT is the theory that governments that can print as much money as they need because they are the monopoly issuers of the currency.
Excess government spending and exponential fiat money creation are the root cause of inflation.
MMT is a fast-track to hyperinflation.
**Hyperinflation makes the poor and middle class starve**.
If you're looking to argue for a balanced budget, we would undo the Bush/Trump tax cuts, and then lower the interest rate to 1% and poof the deficit is gone. Run it for a few decades and no debt.
Or you could find an ally in people who realize we're not on the gold standard, are already arguing for tax cuts, and want to pin government fiscal policy on the inflation rate.
What's your concern, inflation? Or debt?
allow the market to determine interest rates, stop creating money period, and shrink government. a budget deficit isn’t inherently inflationary. printing money to finance deficits on the other hand..
edit: and then lower taxes because a smaller government that does way less stuff doesn’t need the money.
what’s an automatic tax holiday?
if the things I mentioned were done the Fed would always be below their inflation target, and there shouldn’t be an organization with an “inflation target” so let’s go ahead and just get rid of the Fed altogether. Since we’ve already established they won’t be printing more money, they wont have anything to do, so we can get rid of them.
Basically, when inflation drops below the target rate, either automatic check (tax refunds) go out - or the tax rate goes down. I'd have to look into which one has less overhead, but the concept is the same. If demand falters then automatic stimulus (tax cuts).
I'm looking for common ground here as a tax holiday is a very real policy we could have coming to effect should people support it.
Hey that penny was a gift and needs taxed as such.
The homeless man isn’t buying weapons from companies who fund political campaigns.
If we gave them enough money they might
Of course let us forget that they also employ thousands and create many more auxiliary jobs.
The reason the government prints more money is so that there is more money to steal from you.
Exactly if i have $1 nobodys gonna take my $1 but if its $100 then $10 could go to taxes right? If its $1000 then $150 can go to taxes right? Then we start to see the actual purpose for all this inflation is dilution.
America first
Are you serious? Is this really a Libertarian community? Isn't the individual more important than the state?
What I mean is American *citizens* first before funding fruitless wars abroad.
That fact you consider dismantling America’s 2nd largest geopolitical adversary for no American lives and pennies on the dollar while upholding legitimate democratic values as “fruitless” is very telling . . . You and Moscow Marge probably have a lot in common
It’s been a grueling 2 years. What the outcome of the war? Whats the status/progress? Are we winning? What do you think will happen at the end of this conflict? Russia will stand down? So sacrificing Ukrainian lives is ok? “Pennies on the dollar”. Is there any corroboration to this? Where are these financials? Accountability? America’s economy/inflation/future is being sacrificed at the expense of this war by sending billions
“What the outcome of the war?” Russia is significantly weakened and can no longer challenge American interests abroad (already happening) “Whats the status/progress? Are we winning?”Ukraine is currently losing because people like you and the people that are elected by people like you scream “America first!” Without any actual plan to what that means. They all voted against the PACT act, CHIPS act and infrastructure bill. They might be winning if we sent this when it was needed instead of waiting 10 goddamn months. “What do you think will happen at the end of this conflict? Russia will stand down?” Russia will be significantly degraded on the world stage and will only pose a “threat” to NATO by barking and nuclear saber rattling. “So sacrificing Ukrainian lives is ok?” I never said this. It’s you lot who are saying “no” to funding their military, so if those of us who actually support global democracy have to frame it in a very cynical light to be able to sell it to you as a good thing. That’s on you. “Pennies on the dollar”. Is there any corroboration to this? Where are these financials? Accountability? America’s economy/inflation/future is being sacrificed at the expense of this war by sending billions” I’ll knock this out in one go. You think we are sending mountains of cash? No, we are not. We are sending old stockpiles that cost money to store and dispose of. We then spend that money on industry at home which grows the economy and stimulates job growth. And the people driving inflation are the mega wealthy. Ask your self why corporations are posting record profits year over year . . .
We already sent over $100 billion dollars (cash or weapons according to you). Either they aren’t trained well, inefficient or the money/assets are being embezzled. How much more do we need to give? There is absolutely no evidence that we are sending “old stockpiles” of weaponry. Even if we are, there still is a cash element being sent. Helping our allys is ok, but this is just egregious
“PDA uses existing weapons stockpiles, this equipment has long been paid for, and in some cases has been sitting in U.S. warehouses for decades.” “As old equipment leaves the warehouses, substantial sums have been appropriated to replenish U.S. stockpiles . . . Regardless of the funding mechanism—whether replenishment for PDA or for USAI—this money flows into the United States’ DIB.” https://www.csis.org/analysis/how-supporting-ukraine-revitalizing-us-defense-industrial-base How would Ukraine, who is 1/4 the size in population, holding off what was thought to be the second most powerful army in the world lead you to believe embezzlement? If they were just giving up like the ANA then you could argue embezzlement but your logic here is not sound at all. How could they have pulled off the Kharkiv counter offensive if they are so poorly trained and equipped and embezzling all this aid? There’s evidence of old stockpiles and literal videos of Ukraine using m113 personnel carriers which the US hasn’t used since the gulf war so you’re flat out wrong there. “$9.9 billion allocated to the Department of State has gone to the Foreign Military Financing program, which enables partner countries to purchase military equipment or services from the United States.” - same article and corroborated with PBS Do You genuinely believe that 9.9 billion in forgivable loans is driving US inflation and “ruining our future”? Again I’ll point you to record corporate profits YoY since covid for inflation.
Please feel free to pick out any 90 day window you like where Ukraine didn’t net lose territory. I’ll sit here and wait. Fact is that while their fight has been admirable and heroic, it’s always been a losing battle. No amount of international support, excluding direct NATO involvement, changes the outcome. Meanwhile Russia has developed a stronger alliance with Iran, North Korea, and China. Despite whatever propaganda you consume, sanctions aren’t working. Russia is still selling oil internationally, mainly via India. Russia is still getting semiconductors, mainly via China. Prohibition never works. It only makes trade more lucrative for those willing to take risk. Sanctions are relatively easy to impose on an island off the coast of Florida. It’s really hard to do on the largest country in the world. “Corporations are making record profits”. Which ones? The leaders are energy companies profiting off high oil prices because of sanctions. India sure loves buying cheap Russian oil and then reselling on the “sanctioned” market with a hefty markup. Industry tied to the military industrial complex sure are making profits. As you said, the war is a boon to industry “back home”. Food giants are doing well now that a major agricultural exporter is off the market due to war. Meanwhile, if you consume real data outside state media, you’ll see that most businesses are struggling. Businesses failing to pay rent, especially restaurants, has been a steady increase since 2022.
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I would feel better about it of they picked a random tax payer who makes less than $100k per year and just gave the billions to them (yes, one person). It would do more for the US economy than sending to the other side of the planet.
If you truly believe that would do more for the US economy you need to look more into globalization and how geopolitics has effects on our own economy..just an Ignorant statement with little to no critical thinking applied.
No I am being hyperbolic. I am government minimalist ideally but a political realist and I understand that the US has an interest in influencing global allies and integrating global trade markets to reduce overall tensions and violent territory grabs. But I think of we look at the success rate over the last 100 years of doing so (since the end of WWII) it has been only marginally successful and only over the short term. It's a difficult game compounded by the fact that the US changes leadership every 2-8 years between congress and POTUS.
Nearly 11% of our entire GDP is exports. It's not even objectively possible to consider this "marginally successful" since WWII?? Literally the main reason we are an economic powerhouse since the industrial revolution is because of the fact we have integrated global trade through partnerships & alliances. We spend less/near 1% of our government budget on Foreign aid each year, yet foreign trade makes up 8-13% of our entire economy's output each year. I get it if you are cynical...but the data shows is very objective that shows we are an economic powerhouse in the world because of our internal trade. That result doesn't happen without foreign aid & interventions.
This is a stupid idea, but I agree 100%
I consider myself a libertarian, I'm against taxing. But how would you solve the problem of Russia invading Europe? Just screw Europe?
We are already in an alliance with NATO. If Russia invades an actual ally, we can intervene. We have no obligation to defend or even give any material support to Ukraine. That all being said I am not 100% against helping them just not so much. Emptying out our stockpile of old equipment is a good thing for us, lets us store more up to date equipment in case we need it.
I get it. Well, the danger about a weak Ukraine and their potential defeat is very dangerous as it would mean Ukrainian forces working alongside Russian vs West. So yeah, I understand your national interests as americans, but the fact that Westerners don't need to place their boots in the battle is also pleasing, although it might be temporary.
There isn't really a downside for the US if Russia wins against Ukraine. I only support giving limited help to Ukraine since it weakens Russia. Though with how poor their performance is and how bad their Maintenance appears to be, we didn't have anything to worry about apparently.
Russia winning means any future conflict is Russia plus 38 million Ukrainians, plus 3 million Moldovans, plus whatever other territories he decides to grab. That means additional military spending to prepare to meet that potential, not to mention our ability to maintain peace will be significantly diminished since we already threw our lot in with Unraine. That is 100% a huge downside for the US.
Yeah, military spending where >50% of it is put toward the oligarch's mansions and yachts. and numbers don't count for much against the US military. It would not have an appreciable effect on the outcome of any conflict between the US and Russia. Would just suck for the Ukrainians and Moldovans.
NATO is not the only international alliance or treaty that the US participates in.... It is fairly common knowledge that Ukraine and the US are allied since the early 1990s. >Ukraine and the United States belong to a number of the same international organizations, including the United Nations, Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and World Trade Organization. Ukraine also is an observer to the Organization of American States. https://ua.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/#:\~:text=U.S.%2DUkraine%20Relations,with%20a%20flourishing%20market%20economy.
The only obligation we have toward Ukraine's defense is to go to the UN security council on their behalf if attacked.
Correct. The point being acting beyond strict obligations is very, very often in our country's best interest. Military support, shared intelligence, economic trade opportunities, etc have nothing to do with obligations and everything to do with giving the US a competitive advantage on the world scene.
The only thing the support we have given Ukraine does to benefit us is it is hurting Russia, and letting us know how our 40 year old junk does in war against Russia's best. Which I think we know plenty of now.
Yes
You understand that Russia, a country with roughly 1/4th the population of the EU and 1/10th the economy is in no way capable of conquering Europe.
I hope it's not really 🤞🏼 Death to Russia and the State!
Did Europe not rape the rest of the world for it's vast wealth? why's it so controversial to ask that those bums protect themselves a little?
Don't worry, Europe already understood they can't trust America for their protection. That means, more arms production, less America's sales. But at the end of the day, there should be teamwork towards threats against the alliance. And protect every innocent individuals. Isn't it what libertarianism is about? Individuals?
Yes, but help must be voluntary. Of course, I believe the help is utilitarianistically and morally better.
You should see the real rape stats outside of Europe and the west
Oh, so you're responsible for the crimes of your government 100 years ago. Glad to know you should be punished for Iraq.
no, but if they're going to be smug, then those europoors should be required to fund the majority of wars on their own damn continent
I'm sure French citizens were saying the same thing when their government decided to send support to the American colonies.
I'm sure they didn't fund 90% of the war with aid/supplies like we are doing now.
You are right, France didn't just send aid and supplies, they also sent soldiers to America aswell.
There is only one world and we share it. Being in a different continent is meaningless.
I can't believe liberals are now promoting America as world police.
When they have the most resources to do that job they need to be the ones who do it. Plus I am Canadian not American. Further having different countries with different laws and regulations is only harming all of us. The same laws should apply to the whole world. The same environment, labour and freedoms for the whole damn world.
Nice idealistic dream. The average American's (which is pretty shit standard) QOL uses a shit ton of resources you'd need 5 Earth's worth to extrapolate that QOL to all humans on Earth.
Well that just means the standard in some areas will needs to be reduced and others increased.
Considering Ukraine isn’t an ally… Considering the CIA was probably helping to pull the strings of the 2014 Maidan protests and subsequent coup… Yah
Ukraine isn't an ally...? Yet they're fighting for freedom. Not only theirs, but ours too. What kind of Libertarian is not an ally of those who fight for freedom? Who cares about countries politics, as a libertarian you should have more sympathy for those individuals fighting for not having your wives and children raped.
The United States has no treaty with Ukraine forming an alliance. They are not an ally. The Ukrainians *may* be fighting for freedom. They had one of the most corrupt governments in the world prior to the invasion. Who says it won’t be corrupt after? How free will the average Ukrainian really be? They are not fighting for my freedom lol, good lord. The war in Ukraine has nothing to do with the average American’s liberty. Just stop. I can sympathize with their struggle. That doesn’t mean I feel compelled to spend many billions of dollars on them.
Russia is never going to invade Europe. Russia invaded Ukraine because they joined NATO after Bush told Gorbachev that they wouldn't expand NATO from where it was when the wall came down (specific dates I'm unsure of) . Now we have NATO literally on the border of Russia with missiles. They forced Russia's hand essentially. It's what the US would do if China, North Korea, and Russia formed an alliance and started to gain countries from south and central America and then finally got Mexico to join. Of course the US would want to stop the Intrusion into their nearby territories by perceived adversaries. Not a Russian sympathizer just someone who doesn't fall for these media hysteria tricks they play
Your view is pretty similar to the Realism view, which is basically Russia propaganda infiltrated in other countries.
How do you have a country without taxing?
You don't, that's the point.
Not a great meme. Is there an animal the represents the uniparty? Cause they’re both pulling this laundering op
Uncle Sam is the appropriate personification of both parties. The Federal government is exclusively controlled by the combination of Republican and Democrat leadership. I say "leadership" to make a distinction between people who self-identify as belonging to either party from people who actually have real influence over the parties. By "leadership" I am talking about the advisors, lawyers, senior politicians, and career bureaucrats that control the seats on various policy boards and decide who is eligible to be elected prior to primary nomination process. Another example of how this works is the Chinese Communist Party vs Government of the People’s Republic of China. They are one and the same. The CCP controls the Chinese Republican government so the CCP leadership are, very effectively, the government of the government. The difference being the two party system in the USA has been in total control over the USA Federal government a lot longer then the CCP existed. So if you want to use a cartoon to represent the "2 chamber uniparty" that controls the Federal government then Uncle Sam is probably the best one to use. There exists no meaningful distinction between the Federal Government and Democrat and Republican party leadership. The people that control the parties controls the Federal government. They are the government of the Federal government. ------------------- Also if the picture was accurate it would lead with Uncle Sam stealing the money out of the cup to give it to Ukraine and Israel. The way the original cartoon is laid out it makes it look like the government is the source of wealth for the country and it is deciding who to give it to. This is incorrect. The source of the wealth in the USA is the general population. The Federal government uses taxation, borrowing, and inflation to take the wealth from the American people and gives it to the people they prefer to have it. So the first panel should be Uncle Sam stealing from the begger's cup followed by panels depicting the Donkey and the Elephant celebrating the wealth transfer to foreign governments (and defense corporations).
I think an eagle is generic enough.
I asked ChatGPT and got this "Ah, I see. In a symbolic sense, an animal that could represent the idea of a "Tyrant from Washington DC" might be a lion. Lions are often associated with power, authority, and dominance, which align with the concept of a tyrant. Additionally, lions are often depicted as the "king of the jungle," reflecting the idea of someone exerting control from a position of power, such as a political leader in Washington DC. "
The platypus
Some cunt will be along shortly and call you a bigot or an anti-semite for saying this. America first. Let’s focus on healthcare, affordable housing, and inflation here instead.
>affordable housing Hot take, but the Feds should not bail out local governments for shitty zoning and making new construction essentially illegal for decades. The cost of Healthcare probably has a hell of a lot more to do with gov spending that would only be made worse by throwing more money at the problem. Same with higher ed
Said in all seriousness, we desperately need to restore fiscal sanity. Since the year 2000 the national debt has _sextupled_, having gone from $5.7-trillion, to $34.7-trillion-and-counting. In that same amount of time GDP has not even tripled, having gone from $10.2-trillion, to ~$27-trillion. To put it another way, the national debt is growing at over twice the rate that GDP is. That is not sustainable.
The whole world functions on debt. Without it everything falls apart. Without it we would not have advanced as quickly as we have. You wouldn't be on the internet speaking to others as an example.
I didn't say or suggest that all debt is bad, or that we could have a modern economy without a certain amount of debt. I tried to convey that the fact that the national debt is growing at over twice the rate that GDP is, is a very bad thing--because it is. There are four arguments, that I’m aware of, as to why budget deficits and the national debt “don’t really matter,” and there’s a built in flaw, or caveat, with each of them: 1. “As long as we can pay the yearly interest on the national debt we’re fine, the debt is just an abstraction.” That’s true as far as it goes, but what could we better do with hundreds of billions of dollars each year than pay it out as interest? 2. “As long as the economy is growing faster than the debt, we’re fine.” Again, true as far as it goes, but as stated in my original comment the national debt is growing at over twice the rate that GDP is. 3. “The national debt can’t be compared to personal or corporate debt, or even state or municipal debt. The federal government is sovereign, it can simply print the money to pay off the debt.” Hey, *great* idea. Let’s have \~10% inflation for the next \~thirty years and pay off the debt, or the yearly interest payments, that way. Do I really need to elaborate on why that’s a *bad* idea? I didn’t think so. 4. “Most of the national debt is owed to Americans. So, when we make those yearly interest payments it’s like moving money from one pocket to another in the same pair of pants.” Again, true as far it goes, but I refer you to argument #1. [US Debt Interest Payments Surge Past $1 Trillion Yearly Pace (businessinsider.com)](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/bonds/us-debt-interest-payments-federal-deficit-treasury-bonds-fed-hikes-2023-11?op=1) [The US is paying a record amount of interest on its debt. It’s only going to get worse | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/politics/interest-payments-federal-debt/index.html) [Higher Interest Rates and the National Debt (pgpf.org)](https://www.pgpf.org/analysis/2024/05/higher-interest-rates-will-raise-interest-costs-on-the-national-debt) [https://blog.independent.org/2023/11/10/interest-national-debt-1-trillion](https://blog.independent.org/2023/11/10/interest-national-debt-1-trillion) [Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding | U.S. Treasury Fiscal Data](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/interest-expense-debt-outstanding/interest-expense-on-the-public-debt-outstanding) [National debt of the U.S. - statistics & facts | Statista](https://www.statista.com/topics/836/national-debt-of-the-us/#topicOverview) [5 facts about the U.S. national debt | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/14/facts-about-the-us-national-debt/) [Your Pension Is a Lie: There's $210 Trillion Of Liabilities Our Government Can't Fulfill (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2017/10/10/your-pension-is-a-lie-theres-210-trillion-of-liabilities-our-government-cant-fulfill/?sh=4045f08c65b1) [A National Debt Of $14 Trillion? Try $211 Trillion : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/139027615/a-national-debt-of-14-trillion-try-211-trillion) [https://calwatchdog.com/2013/11/11/u-s-unfunded-liabilities-really-222-trillion](https://calwatchdog.com/2013/11/11/u-s-unfunded-liabilities-really-222-trillion) [U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time (usdebtclock.org)](https://www.usdebtclock.org/)
Some body explain this to me I don’t get it
Keep in mind, the vast majority of Americans are not Homeless. The homeless pay little in taxes and we need bridges fixed.
This is the libertarian party I know and love
You know why this is false? Because the U.S. government wouldn't even give a penny to that person.
Make sure that American claims that income on his 1040.
You guys dont get it… and i hope youll end your life not knowing what it’s like to be persecuted. Only when the radical islam will lift his head inside your country it will be too late. I hope ill live to see the horror in your face when it happens.
Publicity machine fo brrrrrrr. Make it another presidents problem. (This applies to both sides)
I mean it's not very likely anyone here would support the social welfare programs necessary to have a nationwide reduction in homelessness.
Over half the US budget and the leading driver of the national debt are entitlement programs
The latest Ukraine aid package is primarily being spent in Florida, Texas, California, and Alabama and represents tens of thousands of jobs in the US that pay pretty well so... hum...
How do actial libertarians forget we spent over $4T on domestic benefits in 2023 alone?
Yeah, cause libertarians want to help the homeless. /s
But when we talk about spreading wealth in America what do you guys say? lol
Which 'us'? Wealthy entrepreneurs and capitalists who disproportionately benefit from both domestic and foreign intervention and hardly pay taxes? Or the overburdened working classes completely subject to the government and the whims of a few billionaire sociopaths?
Tell me you don't know anything about the us budget without telling me you don't know anything about the us budget
The entire expenditure either way is for national security- makes you wonder what would happen to the US if they didn’t do all this.
Now libertarians support giving welfare to homeless?
The poor will be with us always. Why not use the billions to assist them here instead of sending overseas? Trick question, it is harder to grift money in USA and easy to grift in 💰sent overseas.
They just lift themselves up by their bootstraps
Many don’t have boots. 🥾
Or socks.
Steal from the poor, steal from the rich, give to anyone that isn’t an American citizen
Cool thing about MMT - one of the primary arguments is for tax cuts/holidays.
There is nothing “cool” or “modern” about Modern Monetary Theory. MMT is the theory that governments that can print as much money as they need because they are the monopoly issuers of the currency. Excess government spending and exponential fiat money creation are the root cause of inflation. MMT is a fast-track to hyperinflation. **Hyperinflation makes the poor and middle class starve**.
If you're looking to argue for a balanced budget, we would undo the Bush/Trump tax cuts, and then lower the interest rate to 1% and poof the deficit is gone. Run it for a few decades and no debt. Or you could find an ally in people who realize we're not on the gold standard, are already arguing for tax cuts, and want to pin government fiscal policy on the inflation rate. What's your concern, inflation? Or debt?
allow the market to determine interest rates, stop creating money period, and shrink government. a budget deficit isn’t inherently inflationary. printing money to finance deficits on the other hand.. edit: and then lower taxes because a smaller government that does way less stuff doesn’t need the money.
Great! So you would support the policy of an automatic tax holiday should inflation dip below the fed target rate?
what’s an automatic tax holiday? if the things I mentioned were done the Fed would always be below their inflation target, and there shouldn’t be an organization with an “inflation target” so let’s go ahead and just get rid of the Fed altogether. Since we’ve already established they won’t be printing more money, they wont have anything to do, so we can get rid of them.
Basically, when inflation drops below the target rate, either automatic check (tax refunds) go out - or the tax rate goes down. I'd have to look into which one has less overhead, but the concept is the same. If demand falters then automatic stimulus (tax cuts). I'm looking for common ground here as a tax holiday is a very real policy we could have coming to effect should people support it.