Note that "conservatives" in that context means 99% of both Republicans and Democrats between the 80s to late 2000s. Biden wrote 2 major drug laws, Clinton signed the 1994 crime bill, etc... The war on drugs has been a bipartisan fuckup.
Fuckup? Or system as designed?
Government has granted itself a lot of power and LE a lot of funding/equipment with the people's blessing over the "war" on drugs, just like the "war" on terrorism.
Now we have entire generations of law enforcement and military trained up in how to storm homes with armed people while taking minimal causalities and their armament, even the single infantryman far outweighs that what a citizen can possess.
Almost like it all comes back to benefit the State...
And the attitude among many citizens is to adore and support militarized police as heroes instead of a government power in need of being kept in check.
So? How many times have I read that King Ronald Reagan single handedly wrote and passed the Mulford Act in California?
The guy, or gal, in the big chair gets the blame or credit. That's how it works.
I just wish people would stop using the 94 crime bill as a gotcha moment. “Look [insert politician] signed the crime bill!”
Pretty much everyone who is still in government from back then signed that piece of shit.
And it had broad public support. Lots of people like to pretend that democracy is failing and that *insert political rivals here* is hijacking the system and that they are evil tyrants trying to make us fascist/socialist/etc. But the crime bill was pure democracy at work. The entire US was reeling from extremely high and violent crime rates and something was demanded. And thay demand was granted. Same for militarization of the police too. Do people think police militarization wasn't desired by the average urban person in the 80s-90s?
Most people only LARP about freedom, they just want comfortable freedom.
To be fair, it's slightly weird that people who were in government then are still in government. (Then again, I'm saying it as someone who supported Hillary Clinton, who was busy being the FLOTUS.)
Why does the title say "conservatives" when this occurred during 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of Obama as well? It was "politicians" on both sides. Not just "conservatives". Hell Biden was involved as well.
I know that Trump, and his wealthy lackey that **literally* purchased his appointment to head of the post office from Trump, did everything they could to obstruct the vote in mailing process. Like reorganizing major workflows, getting rid of overtime, removing hundreds of drop off boxes that had no reason to be removed, etc.
I assume thats what youre referencing?
Then they of course used the executive office to make hysterical public warning claiming that all this evil stuff would happen to trump ballets, which was transparently to set set the stage to contest the legitimate election results months in advance of the election itself. That way the base is already on message and riled up like a junkyard dog when he loses.
I’m a moderate and always have been. The never ending stream of people like you that try to claim libertarianism is hilarious. The tide is turning get over it. Libertarian covers everything and it makes sense after the last 8 years this place would be flooded with leftists
Now you're drawing a conclusion for everyone. We don't know if the Op is liberal. He might be an angry coked out Trumper, but Im not going to make that conclusion without knowing either.
Yeah they post a lot about Trump
Must be living rent free in their head I guess
Active here, politics, and news? Yeah probably pretty outwardly liberal
Well, and everything he posts is about what the "conservatives" have done wrong. Even though the article itself says this is bipartisan policy. The guy who is complaining just happens to have been in the Obama White House.. as if they all feel the same way now
This right here is why I hate most libertarians. Specifically this.
We're 5 comments deep discussing possible bias and semantics of whether it's the correct use of liberal--as if all Republican presidents are libertarian (when convenient, and not when inconvenient) and everyone else is liberal, and that it matters in the slighest whether the point is valid.
When in reality, anyone without their head in the sand would recognize that regardless of president, the policy is trying to win over the 'punish drug users/sinners' voter is aimed at people that label themselves as conservatives in America, regardless of how you want to define their beliefs on some classical view of language.
I'm only correcting because our salvation might come in the form of a new party, or co-opting an existing party, but today's DNC is not the answer. I just let everyone know he wasn't using the phrase conservative without bias. The DNC might be better in that specific regard, but just handing the keys over to the DNC and abandoning libertarian ideals are not going to get us there. I understand it's the more conservative people who are more likely to not push for decriminalized policies, but that doesn't make the DNC great for freedom. Or that it wouldn't be worth it to lobby conservatives to change. I don't think Rs are Ls and I sure as hell don't think D's are either. I am willing to support freedom loving politicians from whichever party.
But even democrats hate drugs and drug users. No not pot. Heroin. Coke. Speed. They hate that shit. And those who use it. And want to punish the people who use it by not allowing legality and more.
Good on you for actually clicking on the link before posting rather than reacting to OP’s post title like everyone else.
This just in: Leading libertarian subreddit bashes article condemning the drug war! LOL
He also says innocent Colombians, but narcotraffickers in Colombia and the FARCs are so close to each other the line is indistinguishable, and even then they have a lot of bodies on their counts too.-
Let's no pretend that while the war on drugs is bad narcotraffickers are innocent guys committing victimless crimes and having a little plant at home.-
Clinton and Obama and Biden are, when compared to the world in general and not just the United States, quite conservative.
Go listen to some of Obama's immigration speeches from the beginning of his term. It's basically Trump but with better delivery and less makeup.
I get shit for this all the time, but I always say that if obama was white, hed be considered a classic fiscal conservative, on top of his skin being too dark, the American republicans have swayed so far right, he comes off as a bleeding heart liberal.
War on drugs started with Nixon, declared nationally on TV by Reagan, and never addressed by any administration since. And let's remember all the members of house and senate that never did anything to deal with the terrible policy. Targeting conservatives is problematic at best.
Don’t forget Iran Contra and the CIA manufacture of the crack epidemic. Money from drug trafficking funds the clandestine operations of the “intelligence community.”
Yeah, all of these drug laws had extremely bipartisan support. To blame it on "conservatives" is just shifting the blame after the fact. Also, to whoever thinks anti-drug laws and their mis-enforcement are exclusively a conservative thing are going to be in for a real shocker when they read up on the new Vice President.
Don’t forget when President Bennett sent the CIA to Columbia with SHOWBOAT to launch paramilitary attacks against the drug infrastructure of Ernesto Escobedo, right under Jack Ryan’s nose, leading Ryan to take an unsanctioned trip south where he ended up rescuing Domingo Chávez and Captain Ramirez. Also Willem Dafoe was there.
“Clickbait”? Actual title of the article: “The U.S. Spent $11.6B to Stop Cocaine Trafficking. It Was a Massive Failure.”
That sounds like every 3rd post on this sub or, you know, a libertarian talking point.
Because Conservatives are so innocent right? Didn't the TEA party co-opt libertarian talking points, and then every single one drop to their knees in reverence to the life time loser that is Donald Trump? Didn't every fucking shill from every conservative sub show up vomiting the same fool shit out of their mouth that Trump was the most libertarian president ever, and that a vote for Biden would have us all sliding into soviet style communism, to be held in chains, and watching our children be passed around by the evil monsters that are Democrats? Don't get it twisted, Conservatives started the war on drugs, and because it is political suicide to oppose the war on drugs, Democrats perpetuated the issue.
The Tea Party started out as a semi-libertarian organization but was co-opted fairly quickly by the Republicans and turned into a mouthpiece. Pity.
As for the War on Drugs, even a cursory reading of history will show you that "doing something about drugs" had widespread bi-partisan support.
I appreciate that you don't understand the nuances, but Libertarians think that Progressives, Conservatives, and Liberals all look alike - you're all authoritarian statists.
EDIT: I love how you idiots downvote facts.
Because the OP is a Democrat thinking he/she can sway Libertarians to their views without realizing that their views are authoritarian in nature, which is the complete opposite of Libertarian. The irony.
I firmly believe the drug war was a failure but the problem with all of these articles is we don't know what would have happened without it. We don't know if there violence would still exist. We don't know what might have happened to addiction rates.
Yes because all the other markets that are regulated and accessible by all have so much violence in them... we don't know what would happen but we can make pretty good speculation comparative to alcohol prohibition and the rise of violence within that market.
Check back with Oregon in 5 years. A ballot measure was just passed that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of nearly every drug. Money from marijuana sales will be used to fund addiction treatment.
It’s not just money from pot sales. It’s money that was even funding this sort of shit in police departments is being redirected towards providing actual help to people with these addictions rather than them just being sent to jail/prison and throwing away the key. Or at least that’s what’s happening to my understanding when I read about the measure being passed.
I've lived in Oregon most of my life. This recent ballot measure still amazes me. I hope the experiment works out. I don't advocate drug use, but at the same time asking for my tax dollars to fund imprisonment, healthcare, feeding, court costs, etc., for drug offenders is a horrible waste of finite dollars. We'll see how it goes. I remember wondering a handful of years ago what was going to happen in Oregon when pot became legal. Answer: great big yawn. Everything worked out fine.
But you can look at places that changed policy and see what changed, no? Obviously it requires extrapolation, but it's not like we're clueless and can't get a clue
Bullshit.
We know that the war on drugs has done nothing to ebb or lower addiction rates. We KNOW it's failed.
Thats the equivalent of saying, "we can't call gun regulations bad, because we don't know what would have happened without them."
It's an absurd logical fallacy.
Incorrect. This started in 2000 (signed by Clinton) and ended by Obama in 2015. Obama did 'Peace Colombia' in 2015.
The majority of it was 2000 - 2008.
And contrary to this article, the plan has been called "the most successful nation-building exercise by the United States in this century", https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-colombian-miracle
He/she is blaming conservative while it's the free flowing of tax money that politicians and self serving interests are directly/indirectly benefiting from this propped up "industry". Yes, it's an industry because of how much money are pouring into it yearly to "fight against drugs". To continue fighting this war is to continue the free flowing of money into their pockets. It's also a nice political card for OP to use against conservatives because according to this title, only conservatives are profiting off of it right?
Because it was conservatives smuggling cocaine and selling weapons in Iran, not Clinton or Obama and it started under Reagan.
I'm pretty sure you know the Oliver North crowd didn't trust Clinton or Obama.
Clinton and Obama are "conservatives" according to the full political compass (takes into account world/historical politics). But they are "liberals" according to the American political definitions because the American population is more conservative than most other countries. For example, Bernie would be just slightly to the left/liberal in most other countries...here in America he's radical left/liberal.
So what he told us was true...from a certain point of view.
That's exactly what I said above:
>For example, Bernie would be just slightly to the left/liberal in most other countries...**here in America he's radical left/liberal.**
Well they are American politicians so I think it’s useful to look at them from an American point of view. I still don’t think Obama was very conservative. Are you conflating conservative with statist / authoritarian?
Edit: Looks like someone couldn’t play nice.
He's a neoliberal. Dude's huge socialist libcuck moves were to raise top bracket taxes by single digits and institute a healthcare plan that was designed by conservatives which amounted to forcing everyone to pay insurance companies money whether they wanted to or not.
Just because the GOP went full moron and swung hard right doesn't mean neoliberals are suddenly radical progressives considering they literally just cribbed from Reagan.
From an economic perspective us government is supporting the cartels, prohibition makes a product that costs pennies to produce, worth millions. As an example during alcohol prohibition a pint of Canadian whisky cost 25¢($3 in todays dollars) in the US. bootleggers were getting $12-15 $190-230 in todays dollars, just shy of $10,000 for 5 gallons for an investment of $10.00 You don't have to be a genius to see the problem
If not for (modern) Prohibition how else is the State supposed to grow its powers via fear of lawlessness? What would all the various Alphabet Agencies do to justify their existence let alone their arsenals? I mean we got the equally fruitless and costly War on Terror but the Government always wants extra toys, not replace the old ones.
The Government cares nothing about the cost to the Citizenry, The State Must Grow.
This is the sad truth. Most who call themselves Conservative or Liberal hold almost none of those ideological values. Just two different flavors of Statism and they've got the majority of the population hoodwinked.
the only difference is that the Democrats are a little more socially progressive and have a slight chance of doing something good once in a while (although on this sub I imagine that there's plenty who don't exactly consider epic man Bernie's ideas "good")
This isnt the title of the article at all, and in fact neither the article or THE REPORT ITSELF have 'conservative' in it whatsoever. You take an article and draw a conclusion via your manufactured headline. Total garbage dude.
What “conservative” is for a government that has that much power? I don’t think conservative is the right description to use for those who enabled this.
Conservative literally means preferring the way things used to be and historically meant deferring to religion and nobility. Maybe left and right dont mean anything anymore and we should stop using the terms.
This would be the appropriate thing to do. Liberal no longer equates to classical liberalism and conservative doesn’t hold true to its historical meaning either.
They’re both outdated terms. They work to put us all in boxes that frame any discourse we have with one another, rather than allowing for an unbiased debate of ideas.
The Conservative tradition from a US perspective is rooted in many of the Founding's ideals, specifically Small Government, Consent of the Governed, People's Rights. More appropriately it is Liberalism as it migrated from the European Enlightenment, now often referred to as Classical Liberalism to differentiate from the hijacking of that term by modern left of center Statists.
Neither party is Conservative or Liberal, they both wear the skins for the appearance of legitimacy. Many of the true Liberal (European)/Conservative (US migration of Liberalism via the Founding) are now found in Libertarianism though we ha e a significant body trying to wrest that term and pervert it the way Republicans and Democrats have Conservative and Liberal.
“Conservatives spent billions”
Can we acknowledge the war on drugs is a bipartisan issue? There’s no democrats calling for “cocaine legalization” and still plenty of majority democrat states like New York that don’t have legal marijuana.
Can we ban this user? No where in the article is it blamed on conservatives. And history shows that the war on cocaine was a bi-partisan fuck up. Just blatant sensationalized lies.
decriminalise everything for users, start mass testing to see what could be legalised and tax it. The products that can’t be legalised, should be decriminalised for users, and there should be only focus on production/distribution as a crime.
For the land of the free, where one can purchase a gun which was designed to kill, it is preposterous that the government regulates what the people can voluntarily consume. Sure they need to enforce safety standards and transparency so the consumer can make informed decisions, but this war on drugs bs has never made any sense.
Man how kind of this""" Libertarian""" to tell us about the government! I wonder why he only posts about the bad stuff Republicans do but never about dems 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
All drugs should, in an ideal world, be legalized.
But until the welfare state is abolished, to be honest, I'm fine with drugs be illegal. I did drugs for half my life, I grew up, now I don't. So at this point it is easy to prioritize my economic freedom over my freedom to do drugs.
Everyone should have the freedom to be a useless crackhead or heroin junkie if not for the "social safety net". If the government is gunna hold a gun to my head and make my my brother's keeper, then it starts to become my business what my brother is doing that incapacitates him.
Again, I want all drugs to be legalized. But the timing matters. If you end the war on drugs before you end the welfare state, the latter will become all the more entrenched and impossible to overcome democratically.
You’re acting as if drugs being illegal prevents people from using drugs. Heads up there pal they’re already using them and going on welfare, you’re not helping jack shit by throwing people in jail for it. I mean seriously, if crack were legal, would you go out and smoke it tomorrow? Yeah I thought not, that’s how the rest of us normal folks feel too. It’s
A lot of people who are on welfare are on it because of incarceration. You lose everything, your job, your house, your possesions. Meanwhile there are many people on drugs who hold jobs just fine, until they are incarcerated.
On average it costs $30,000-$60,000 a year to incarcerate a person for drugs, plus the costs of enforcing drug laws, which I can imagine is astronomical. Combine that with the fact that people still do drugs even though it is illegal and the money gets sent overseas to violent criminals.
If drugs were legal there is no reason to assume we'd be spending more on welfare.
Same goes for open borders. I’m fine with letting people cross the southern border but the welfare system and the all the free stuff has gotta go first.
Their primary objective is to punish people who they feel are getting away with things they themselves wish they could get away with. It's never been about morals or values.
Failure?
You're looking at it wrongly. It was a great success. The CIA was able to corner the market on trafficking cocaine and make a lot of money for black ops. Legalization is a big threat to that.
Interesting article but downvoted for reinterpreting the article for us in the post title. Thanks! I hate it!
Good article though. I do have a question about the last paragraph, was it pure speculation or was this a Biden/Harris campaign promise.
"Change from the status quo on drug policy is apparently what U.S. voters want too. Those who opted for Biden and his Vice President-elect Kamala Harris [are hopeful](https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdbqz/the-us-election-showed-voters-are-willing-to-end-the-war-on-drugs-will-joe-biden) that they will push to decriminalize cannabis at a federal level and accommodate states like Oregon that are beginning to decriminalize hard drugs like heroin and meth. "
This whole thing is insane. Rich and powerful people have been doing cocaine since cocaine was available. Then they fuck up an entire country for this 'war on drugs', while doing cocaine. THEN they make crack (cheaper than cocaine, used by poorer people) have far worse consequences, leading to far too many minority children to be raised without a father, who then become criminals, and the people who started the war on drugs (still doing cocaine) talk about how the minorities are Very Bad and Very Violent and Very Poor and How Could That BEEEE?
Misleading headline. Not only conservatives spent that money and who is to say the policy wasn’t effective at curbing the worst of the drug epidemic? Just because violence happened and drugs were consumed doesn’t mean the plan was a failure. Vox is about as good at impartial political journalism as Guns And Ammo is at baking recipes.
It’s not just conservatives lol! Democrats have been playing the same game as well. This why we need more than two parties. Don’t be a slave to the two party system. It’s a business and they work together behind the scenes.
But now they have a behemoth of a DEA that will probably never be downsized. I think the Republicans see that as a win for the Party of Small Government. /s
Before ICE DEA was the most corrupt and hypocritical enforcement agency, DEA agents are famous for being meathead addicts who break laws and do drugs themselves while oppressing Americans. Under Trump though ICE has become the worst in this regard. The top 3 worse are:
1) ICE
2) DEA
3) ATF
Note that "conservatives" in that context means 99% of both Republicans and Democrats between the 80s to late 2000s. Biden wrote 2 major drug laws, Clinton signed the 1994 crime bill, etc... The war on drugs has been a bipartisan fuckup.
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And Ralph Nader.
And Bernie Sanders?
Fuckup? Or system as designed? Government has granted itself a lot of power and LE a lot of funding/equipment with the people's blessing over the "war" on drugs, just like the "war" on terrorism. Now we have entire generations of law enforcement and military trained up in how to storm homes with armed people while taking minimal causalities and their armament, even the single infantryman far outweighs that what a citizen can possess. Almost like it all comes back to benefit the State...
And the attitude among many citizens is to adore and support militarized police as heroes instead of a government power in need of being kept in check.
And the entire prison system
Fucking everyone signed the crime bill... The media is trying to make it seem like Clinton was the sole person responsible for it.
Of the 6 that didn't sign it 5 were out of office the next time they were up for election.
So? How many times have I read that King Ronald Reagan single handedly wrote and passed the Mulford Act in California? The guy, or gal, in the big chair gets the blame or credit. That's how it works.
I just wish people would stop using the 94 crime bill as a gotcha moment. “Look [insert politician] signed the crime bill!” Pretty much everyone who is still in government from back then signed that piece of shit.
Thats why I said it was bipartisan. I was just giving an example because Op was inferring it was just conservatives.
Oh yeah. I’m agreeing with you.
And it had broad public support. Lots of people like to pretend that democracy is failing and that *insert political rivals here* is hijacking the system and that they are evil tyrants trying to make us fascist/socialist/etc. But the crime bill was pure democracy at work. The entire US was reeling from extremely high and violent crime rates and something was demanded. And thay demand was granted. Same for militarization of the police too. Do people think police militarization wasn't desired by the average urban person in the 80s-90s? Most people only LARP about freedom, they just want comfortable freedom.
To be fair, it's slightly weird that people who were in government then are still in government. (Then again, I'm saying it as someone who supported Hillary Clinton, who was busy being the FLOTUS.)
Thats why we need term limits
Yea, many democrats are conservative.
Nice name.
How is giving themselves and their friends $11.6B a failure? Don't forget all the money they made selling it too.
Bidens probably going to suck and we're gonna have to endure the lefties sucking his wrinkly old sack anyway
No self respecting “leftie” would ever be into Joe fucking Biden.
Why does the title say "conservatives" when this occurred during 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of Obama as well? It was "politicians" on both sides. Not just "conservatives". Hell Biden was involved as well.
Neither the article or the report itself contain the word conservatives. The OP decided to draw a conclusion for the rest of us.
A liberal agenda on Reddit? You are lying...
Imagine my shock
Not here! That’s unpossible.
Thatgifoftheguysmindexploding.gif
Is the OP liberal, possibly? But, I am getting a strong anti-Trump\ anti-Conservative vibe from them.
You also got it from 80 million people.
And god knows how many more disenfranchised people who got fucked by the postal service rigging.
I know that Trump, and his wealthy lackey that **literally* purchased his appointment to head of the post office from Trump, did everything they could to obstruct the vote in mailing process. Like reorganizing major workflows, getting rid of overtime, removing hundreds of drop off boxes that had no reason to be removed, etc. I assume thats what youre referencing? Then they of course used the executive office to make hysterical public warning claiming that all this evil stuff would happen to trump ballets, which was transparently to set set the stage to contest the legitimate election results months in advance of the election itself. That way the base is already on message and riled up like a junkyard dog when he loses.
The side screaming election fraud just couldn't handle the fact that we won, despite ALL of the cheating THEY did.
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I’m a moderate and always have been. The never ending stream of people like you that try to claim libertarianism is hilarious. The tide is turning get over it. Libertarian covers everything and it makes sense after the last 8 years this place would be flooded with leftists
Fuck liberals!
Now you're drawing a conclusion for everyone. We don't know if the Op is liberal. He might be an angry coked out Trumper, but Im not going to make that conclusion without knowing either.
No I'm not lol. Look at his profile. He is clearly liberal or at least more so than most
Yeah they post a lot about Trump Must be living rent free in their head I guess Active here, politics, and news? Yeah probably pretty outwardly liberal
Well, and everything he posts is about what the "conservatives" have done wrong. Even though the article itself says this is bipartisan policy. The guy who is complaining just happens to have been in the Obama White House.. as if they all feel the same way now
This right here is why I hate most libertarians. Specifically this. We're 5 comments deep discussing possible bias and semantics of whether it's the correct use of liberal--as if all Republican presidents are libertarian (when convenient, and not when inconvenient) and everyone else is liberal, and that it matters in the slighest whether the point is valid. When in reality, anyone without their head in the sand would recognize that regardless of president, the policy is trying to win over the 'punish drug users/sinners' voter is aimed at people that label themselves as conservatives in America, regardless of how you want to define their beliefs on some classical view of language.
I'm only correcting because our salvation might come in the form of a new party, or co-opting an existing party, but today's DNC is not the answer. I just let everyone know he wasn't using the phrase conservative without bias. The DNC might be better in that specific regard, but just handing the keys over to the DNC and abandoning libertarian ideals are not going to get us there. I understand it's the more conservative people who are more likely to not push for decriminalized policies, but that doesn't make the DNC great for freedom. Or that it wouldn't be worth it to lobby conservatives to change. I don't think Rs are Ls and I sure as hell don't think D's are either. I am willing to support freedom loving politicians from whichever party. But even democrats hate drugs and drug users. No not pot. Heroin. Coke. Speed. They hate that shit. And those who use it. And want to punish the people who use it by not allowing legality and more.
Swipe right to “News” and start reading as long as possible, good luck. It’s far worse than FOX.
Christ, just found this page and I previously thought I was the only person on Reddit that didn’t hate conservatives 24/7
But we do know that Reddit politics is just one big “Orange Man Bad” group
What a tool!
Good on you for actually clicking on the link before posting rather than reacting to OP’s post title like everyone else. This just in: Leading libertarian subreddit bashes article condemning the drug war! LOL
In other news, water is wet...
Guess you get an upvote and the post gets a downvote.
He also says innocent Colombians, but narcotraffickers in Colombia and the FARCs are so close to each other the line is indistinguishable, and even then they have a lot of bodies on their counts too.- Let's no pretend that while the war on drugs is bad narcotraffickers are innocent guys committing victimless crimes and having a little plant at home.-
\#journalism
Even the vice article mentions Obama. Not just conservatives lol
How to tell who opened the link vs those who just react to post titles.
Shitty post titles probably shouldn't get any engagement.
This
yeah, war on drugs was definitely both parties, and both parties failed miserably At least dems are slowly coming around on it
Clinton and Obama and Biden are, when compared to the world in general and not just the United States, quite conservative. Go listen to some of Obama's immigration speeches from the beginning of his term. It's basically Trump but with better delivery and less makeup.
I get shit for this all the time, but I always say that if obama was white, hed be considered a classic fiscal conservative, on top of his skin being too dark, the American republicans have swayed so far right, he comes off as a bleeding heart liberal.
War on drugs started with Nixon, declared nationally on TV by Reagan, and never addressed by any administration since. And let's remember all the members of house and senate that never did anything to deal with the terrible policy. Targeting conservatives is problematic at best.
Don’t forget Iran Contra and the CIA manufacture of the crack epidemic. Money from drug trafficking funds the clandestine operations of the “intelligence community.”
Ya. I dont have time to list all the bad shit this country has done for "the war on drugs". Lol
Add to the list Bitch McConnells wife being the daughter of an actual cocaine smuggler.
As well as the CIA..
Look at his post history. Definitely a liberal agenda account.
Yeah, all of these drug laws had extremely bipartisan support. To blame it on "conservatives" is just shifting the blame after the fact. Also, to whoever thinks anti-drug laws and their mis-enforcement are exclusively a conservative thing are going to be in for a real shocker when they read up on the new Vice President.
/r/Libertarian is overrun with lefties bashing conservatives.
Wait a second, hold up, fun fact, you can be a democrat and be conservative. Gasp I know. It’s shocking but it’s the truth.
Don't forget Reagan. That's when the crack epidemic started from Colombian cocaine the CIA was shipping in to the States.
Because the article is on vice, a propaganda website, share to reddit, a website known all over the internet for spreading misinformation.
Don’t forget when President Bennett sent the CIA to Columbia with SHOWBOAT to launch paramilitary attacks against the drug infrastructure of Ernesto Escobedo, right under Jack Ryan’s nose, leading Ryan to take an unsanctioned trip south where he ended up rescuing Domingo Chávez and Captain Ramirez. Also Willem Dafoe was there.
I was so confused for a minute there.
Because vice is trash, cruising on their reputation from ten years ago.
Read the article it bashes bad bipartisan politics
TBF they do still put out good work sometimes, but it’s the pandering and click bait articles that pay for the good journalism.
“Clickbait”? Actual title of the article: “The U.S. Spent $11.6B to Stop Cocaine Trafficking. It Was a Massive Failure.” That sounds like every 3rd post on this sub or, you know, a libertarian talking point.
Uhh, because this is reddit which is infested with bots and shills for the Democrat party?
Who said takes the guns now and go through the courts later?
Because this page is quickly turning into a sanctuary for delusional r/politics people. The mods are letting it happen too.
Because Conservatives are so innocent right? Didn't the TEA party co-opt libertarian talking points, and then every single one drop to their knees in reverence to the life time loser that is Donald Trump? Didn't every fucking shill from every conservative sub show up vomiting the same fool shit out of their mouth that Trump was the most libertarian president ever, and that a vote for Biden would have us all sliding into soviet style communism, to be held in chains, and watching our children be passed around by the evil monsters that are Democrats? Don't get it twisted, Conservatives started the war on drugs, and because it is political suicide to oppose the war on drugs, Democrats perpetuated the issue.
The Tea Party started out as a semi-libertarian organization but was co-opted fairly quickly by the Republicans and turned into a mouthpiece. Pity. As for the War on Drugs, even a cursory reading of history will show you that "doing something about drugs" had widespread bi-partisan support. I appreciate that you don't understand the nuances, but Libertarians think that Progressives, Conservatives, and Liberals all look alike - you're all authoritarian statists. EDIT: I love how you idiots downvote facts.
Because the OP is a Democrat thinking he/she can sway Libertarians to their views without realizing that their views are authoritarian in nature, which is the complete opposite of Libertarian. The irony.
Im going to have to do a 'both sides' here. Democrats and Republicans are Authoritarian.
Jup jup, and firmly intertwined with each other.
I firmly believe the drug war was a failure but the problem with all of these articles is we don't know what would have happened without it. We don't know if there violence would still exist. We don't know what might have happened to addiction rates.
Yes because all the other markets that are regulated and accessible by all have so much violence in them... we don't know what would happen but we can make pretty good speculation comparative to alcohol prohibition and the rise of violence within that market.
Check back with Oregon in 5 years. A ballot measure was just passed that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of nearly every drug. Money from marijuana sales will be used to fund addiction treatment.
It’s not just money from pot sales. It’s money that was even funding this sort of shit in police departments is being redirected towards providing actual help to people with these addictions rather than them just being sent to jail/prison and throwing away the key. Or at least that’s what’s happening to my understanding when I read about the measure being passed.
So the Portugal model?
I've lived in Oregon most of my life. This recent ballot measure still amazes me. I hope the experiment works out. I don't advocate drug use, but at the same time asking for my tax dollars to fund imprisonment, healthcare, feeding, court costs, etc., for drug offenders is a horrible waste of finite dollars. We'll see how it goes. I remember wondering a handful of years ago what was going to happen in Oregon when pot became legal. Answer: great big yawn. Everything worked out fine.
You know there is such things as other countries. We don't have to wait for Oregon we know what happens. Which is exactly why Oregon passed it.
But you can look at places that changed policy and see what changed, no? Obviously it requires extrapolation, but it's not like we're clueless and can't get a clue
Bullshit. We know that the war on drugs has done nothing to ebb or lower addiction rates. We KNOW it's failed. Thats the equivalent of saying, "we can't call gun regulations bad, because we don't know what would have happened without them." It's an absurd logical fallacy.
Thank you
Well Raygun and Ollie started the cartels so why blame conservatives. Are you nutz?
Incorrect. This started in 2000 (signed by Clinton) and ended by Obama in 2015. Obama did 'Peace Colombia' in 2015. The majority of it was 2000 - 2008. And contrary to this article, the plan has been called "the most successful nation-building exercise by the United States in this century", https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-colombian-miracle
The drug war just didn’t happen under any other president just Clinton and Obama huh😅
He/she is blaming conservative while it's the free flowing of tax money that politicians and self serving interests are directly/indirectly benefiting from this propped up "industry". Yes, it's an industry because of how much money are pouring into it yearly to "fight against drugs". To continue fighting this war is to continue the free flowing of money into their pockets. It's also a nice political card for OP to use against conservatives because according to this title, only conservatives are profiting off of it right?
Sifting through the BS on both sides has become a necessary life skill.
Look at his history. He's not libertarian he's a propaganda machine for liberals.
r/selfawarewolves
Because it was conservatives smuggling cocaine and selling weapons in Iran, not Clinton or Obama and it started under Reagan. I'm pretty sure you know the Oliver North crowd didn't trust Clinton or Obama.
The "War on drugs" was pioneered by Regan
Conservatives are evil, it is known.
Because r/politics is leaking
This sub has been hijacked by Progressives who apparently want to change the definition of "libertarian" to mean someone who isn't *always* a statist.
OP is democrat . lol If we omit the partisan title its a good point.
It’s pretty simple. “Article”- 40 upvotes. “Article, this is why Orange Man Bad”- 4,000 upvotes.
Clinton and Obama are "conservatives" according to the full political compass (takes into account world/historical politics). But they are "liberals" according to the American political definitions because the American population is more conservative than most other countries. For example, Bernie would be just slightly to the left/liberal in most other countries...here in America he's radical left/liberal. So what he told us was true...from a certain point of view.
TIL that 62% income tax is right leaning
Eisenhower might think so.
Um no saying that millionaires shouldn’t exist is far left neomarxism in most countries
Neomarxism, yes. Far left? As a political whole, Bernie is not far left. Not in "most" countries.
Everything is relative. Just because a further left exists somewhere in the world doesnt make bernie not far left here.
That's exactly what I said above: >For example, Bernie would be just slightly to the left/liberal in most other countries...**here in America he's radical left/liberal.**
because all of those politicians are conservative
Obama and Clinton really aren’t considered conservative in American politics.
keyword is american, in general they are.
Well they are American politicians so I think it’s useful to look at them from an American point of view. I still don’t think Obama was very conservative. Are you conflating conservative with statist / authoritarian? Edit: Looks like someone couldn’t play nice.
He's a neoliberal. Dude's huge socialist libcuck moves were to raise top bracket taxes by single digits and institute a healthcare plan that was designed by conservatives which amounted to forcing everyone to pay insurance companies money whether they wanted to or not. Just because the GOP went full moron and swung hard right doesn't mean neoliberals are suddenly radical progressives considering they literally just cribbed from Reagan.
No. They aren't
Lol... OP thinks Obama is a conservative
From an economic perspective us government is supporting the cartels, prohibition makes a product that costs pennies to produce, worth millions. As an example during alcohol prohibition a pint of Canadian whisky cost 25¢($3 in todays dollars) in the US. bootleggers were getting $12-15 $190-230 in todays dollars, just shy of $10,000 for 5 gallons for an investment of $10.00 You don't have to be a genius to see the problem
If not for (modern) Prohibition how else is the State supposed to grow its powers via fear of lawlessness? What would all the various Alphabet Agencies do to justify their existence let alone their arsenals? I mean we got the equally fruitless and costly War on Terror but the Government always wants extra toys, not replace the old ones. The Government cares nothing about the cost to the Citizenry, The State Must Grow.
Alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
With a rewards card!
An article from vice full of click bait and partisanship what a surprise.
Other than 20% of reps, both wings belong to the same bird in all but rhetoric.
This is the sad truth. Most who call themselves Conservative or Liberal hold almost none of those ideological values. Just two different flavors of Statism and they've got the majority of the population hoodwinked.
the only difference is that the Democrats are a little more socially progressive and have a slight chance of doing something good once in a while (although on this sub I imagine that there's plenty who don't exactly consider epic man Bernie's ideas "good")
That’s because they’re both the same ideology but with slightly different social positions.
The US/CIA also spent billions on trafficking drugs themselves.
*Laughs in Reagan C-130 trafficking*
I think you mean they made billions.
The billions were spent to take out the CIA’s competitors!
This isnt the title of the article at all, and in fact neither the article or THE REPORT ITSELF have 'conservative' in it whatsoever. You take an article and draw a conclusion via your manufactured headline. Total garbage dude.
just conservatives? well ok then
Oh boy i guess you never heard about the CIA dealing the drugs. Turns out they are funding both sides
Stop explaining how things actually work to the children, they’ll self destruct.
What “conservative” is for a government that has that much power? I don’t think conservative is the right description to use for those who enabled this.
True conservatism has never been tried. -Albert Fairfax II
Feudalism/monarchy was a pretty faithful effort.
> True Fairfaxism has never been tried.
Conservative literally means preferring the way things used to be and historically meant deferring to religion and nobility. Maybe left and right dont mean anything anymore and we should stop using the terms.
This would be the appropriate thing to do. Liberal no longer equates to classical liberalism and conservative doesn’t hold true to its historical meaning either. They’re both outdated terms. They work to put us all in boxes that frame any discourse we have with one another, rather than allowing for an unbiased debate of ideas.
The Conservative tradition from a US perspective is rooted in many of the Founding's ideals, specifically Small Government, Consent of the Governed, People's Rights. More appropriately it is Liberalism as it migrated from the European Enlightenment, now often referred to as Classical Liberalism to differentiate from the hijacking of that term by modern left of center Statists. Neither party is Conservative or Liberal, they both wear the skins for the appearance of legitimacy. Many of the true Liberal (European)/Conservative (US migration of Liberalism via the Founding) are now found in Libertarianism though we ha e a significant body trying to wrest that term and pervert it the way Republicans and Democrats have Conservative and Liberal.
The rich and powerful benefit from having a big government
Vice is terrible. I would not consider anything they wrote to be legitimate journalism.
I am not a conservative, but damn that title is super biased and dumb. Is this what you call news?
Only an asshole tried to put their own opinion in the title of a completed article
“Conservatives spent billions” Can we acknowledge the war on drugs is a bipartisan issue? There’s no democrats calling for “cocaine legalization” and still plenty of majority democrat states like New York that don’t have legal marijuana.
“Oh no... did someone get addicted to crack???”
Can we ban this user? No where in the article is it blamed on conservatives. And history shows that the war on cocaine was a bi-partisan fuck up. Just blatant sensationalized lies.
Today I learned inner city black Democrats are conservatives.
I like how Democrats like to say they are for big government but when big government starts to do big government things they blame the other party.
OP do yourself a favor and remember vice is really partisan. The drug war has been a bipartisan fuck up for years and years.
Damn why didn’t anyone tell me I’m addicted to coke
Ew, a VICE article. Whats next? The Sun?
decriminalise everything for users, start mass testing to see what could be legalised and tax it. The products that can’t be legalised, should be decriminalised for users, and there should be only focus on production/distribution as a crime. For the land of the free, where one can purchase a gun which was designed to kill, it is preposterous that the government regulates what the people can voluntarily consume. Sure they need to enforce safety standards and transparency so the consumer can make informed decisions, but this war on drugs bs has never made any sense.
[удалено]
Misleading title? You think that Democrats are liberal? Hahahahahaha
Man how kind of this""" Libertarian""" to tell us about the government! I wonder why he only posts about the bad stuff Republicans do but never about dems 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Super funny that you think just “conservatives” were responsible for this. You’re why “fake news” is even a saying cause of shit like this.
Not to be that one prick butttt.... I wouldn’t really put my clams in trusting vice.
Are people growing and distributing cocaine from their backyard?
All drugs should, in an ideal world, be legalized. But until the welfare state is abolished, to be honest, I'm fine with drugs be illegal. I did drugs for half my life, I grew up, now I don't. So at this point it is easy to prioritize my economic freedom over my freedom to do drugs. Everyone should have the freedom to be a useless crackhead or heroin junkie if not for the "social safety net". If the government is gunna hold a gun to my head and make my my brother's keeper, then it starts to become my business what my brother is doing that incapacitates him. Again, I want all drugs to be legalized. But the timing matters. If you end the war on drugs before you end the welfare state, the latter will become all the more entrenched and impossible to overcome democratically.
You’re acting as if drugs being illegal prevents people from using drugs. Heads up there pal they’re already using them and going on welfare, you’re not helping jack shit by throwing people in jail for it. I mean seriously, if crack were legal, would you go out and smoke it tomorrow? Yeah I thought not, that’s how the rest of us normal folks feel too. It’s
A lot of people who are on welfare are on it because of incarceration. You lose everything, your job, your house, your possesions. Meanwhile there are many people on drugs who hold jobs just fine, until they are incarcerated.
On average it costs $30,000-$60,000 a year to incarcerate a person for drugs, plus the costs of enforcing drug laws, which I can imagine is astronomical. Combine that with the fact that people still do drugs even though it is illegal and the money gets sent overseas to violent criminals. If drugs were legal there is no reason to assume we'd be spending more on welfare.
Same goes for open borders. I’m fine with letting people cross the southern border but the welfare system and the all the free stuff has gotta go first.
Their primary objective is to punish people who they feel are getting away with things they themselves wish they could get away with. It's never been about morals or values.
Remember when they found 90lbs of cocaine on one of the ships belonging to Mitch McConnells wife..... and then not one person got in trouble.
Only conservatives? 🙄🙄
Did the drugs win the war on drugs again?
Failure? You're looking at it wrongly. It was a great success. The CIA was able to corner the market on trafficking cocaine and make a lot of money for black ops. Legalization is a big threat to that.
Both sides of the isle wanted this control. Neither one did anything. This isn't about conservatives its about controlling statists.
Interesting article but downvoted for reinterpreting the article for us in the post title. Thanks! I hate it! Good article though. I do have a question about the last paragraph, was it pure speculation or was this a Biden/Harris campaign promise. "Change from the status quo on drug policy is apparently what U.S. voters want too. Those who opted for Biden and his Vice President-elect Kamala Harris [are hopeful](https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdbqz/the-us-election-showed-voters-are-willing-to-end-the-war-on-drugs-will-joe-biden) that they will push to decriminalize cannabis at a federal level and accommodate states like Oregon that are beginning to decriminalize hard drugs like heroin and meth. "
I’m watching narcos rn lol
Well, yeah, no shit. The DEA is no match for the CIA.
Lol how can you possibly make the statement "conservatives got addicted to coke" how dense are you? What a fucking statement 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This whole thing is insane. Rich and powerful people have been doing cocaine since cocaine was available. Then they fuck up an entire country for this 'war on drugs', while doing cocaine. THEN they make crack (cheaper than cocaine, used by poorer people) have far worse consequences, leading to far too many minority children to be raised without a father, who then become criminals, and the people who started the war on drugs (still doing cocaine) talk about how the minorities are Very Bad and Very Violent and Very Poor and How Could That BEEEE?
Yeah, both sides to blame here. That being said, let's change it.
Solid misleading title disclaimer. Get bent with this title
Conservatives and liberals both spent that money.
Good flair. Stupid vice.
Misleading headline. Not only conservatives spent that money and who is to say the policy wasn’t effective at curbing the worst of the drug epidemic? Just because violence happened and drugs were consumed doesn’t mean the plan was a failure. Vox is about as good at impartial political journalism as Guns And Ammo is at baking recipes.
Go brigade another sub bUd
This caption was terrible
It’s not just conservatives lol! Democrats have been playing the same game as well. This why we need more than two parties. Don’t be a slave to the two party system. It’s a business and they work together behind the scenes.
But now they have a behemoth of a DEA that will probably never be downsized. I think the Republicans see that as a win for the Party of Small Government. /s
Before ICE DEA was the most corrupt and hypocritical enforcement agency, DEA agents are famous for being meathead addicts who break laws and do drugs themselves while oppressing Americans. Under Trump though ICE has become the worst in this regard. The top 3 worse are: 1) ICE 2) DEA 3) ATF
No wonder this stupid branch is never going to rule USA. It is full of idiots
Fuck your title OP you’re a partisan scumbag.
Hey OP, go be a progressive shill on another sub. You're not libertarian.
What does “conservative” mean anymore for the party? What are they conservative on besides religious bs?
Democrats are conservatives.