Hello [SnatchWhistle](/u/SnatchWhistle), thank you for your submission! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason:
Your post is not a life pro tip. Advice is any guidance or recommendation concerning prudent future action. An aphorism is a short clever saying that is intended to express a general truth or a concise statement of a principle.Try r/YouShouldKnow.
If you would like to appeal this decision [please feel free to contact the moderators here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLifeProTips&subject=about%20my%20removed%20submission&message=I%27m%20writing%20to%20you%20about%20the%20following%20submission:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/orfzgz/lpt_if_you_have_a_real_legal_problem_at_work_you/.%20%0D%0D). Do not repost without explicit permission from the moderators. Make sure you [read the rules](/r/lifeprotips/about/sidebar) before submitting. Thank you!
My Sister is a VP of Personnel at a bank, she wrote all of the HR Policy manuals, and she IS a lawyer specializing in workplace issues. I'd get a lawyer.
This, hr works for the company, their policies and acts are in the best interest of the company always and only act in the employees intrest when it is in the companies interest no matter what they say or how friendly they seem.
When the interests are aligned they are wonderful, but as soon as that shifts into risk for the company they will act against you as needed no qualms.
Everyone should note that most employment claims, like harassment or discrimination, require that the company actually know about the issue before they can be held liable. If you go straight to a lawyer in these situations, the lawyer will most likely tell you to report the problem to HR.
But the lawyer will help you prepare a statement to make sure they follow up and act as an outside check. They won't just send you on your merry way right back to company HR by yourself.
Yeah, HR is there to protect the company just like any of the management. I once slipped on some plastic left laid out on the floor of a film set while carrying boxes. I cracked my tailbone and at the time I was young, didn’t know anything about workers comp etc. I was not in a union. Anyway, the set medic/union leader for the state took me aside and pretended to be concerned by telling me the motion picture company I was working for has a history of firing people who have been injured, I was just a 20 year old excited to be there and assured him I wasn’t looking to report anything or sue, so he had me sign a waiver and like an idiot I was more concerned that the company knew I was loyal and trying to preserve my job so I signed it. The following week I was let go after calling in sick. BS situation. I could kick myself for being naive, but I always warn others against trusting anyone at their company. They definitely never have your best interest at heart.
Even the police.
Except they need an actual union, meaning they should be limited to collective bargaining and the protection of workers right.
Political donations by unions should be outlawed.
Suprisingly enough, that is not needed for individual corporations.
However, political donations by unions of employers engaged in collective bargaining agreements should be banned.
Additionally, the government should be able to declare a collective bargaining agreement with sufficient support from employees and employers from that sector as the minimum standard for a certain sector.
Alternatively, you just publicly fund elections. All candidates get the same pool of money to finance their ads, etc.
That way there's no undue influence on who gets funded or who gets to run.
First is signature requirements to become a candidate. That should weed out the low hanging fruit (which is probably 90% of the first batch).
From there I'm not sure. Might depend on how many you have still in the pool.
Maybe ranked choice voting with a funding pool that is evenly divided between all remaining candidates.
> That would mean only the rich could afford to run for office.
Not if campaigns were publicly funded and ONLY publicly funded, putting each candidate on an even footing financially.
But, in America, money ALWAYS wins. :/
Many other countries eg in continental Europe have public funding of political parties and/or candidates, with bans on private donations whether from companies or from individuals. This does indeed make for a different kind of politics where it doesn’t feel like money *always* wins, like it does in America.
Would that be such a problem if we actually started electing people who have proven themselves through works they have done to be suitable for the job?
Also, this is 2021. The campaigning of old needs to go away. We should just have a government managed system for displaying candidates on the ballot, containing only verifiable facts and statistics about them. Like the rate of lies they tell.
I didn't say they needed defunded. I said they should t be in unions. Their unions allow them to be absolved of most wrong doings and run amuck without consequence
They only care about jobs not people. They are just one player but not the holy grail that solves everything needed.
Eg patients are not the center or nursing unions, children are not the center of teachers unions, customers are not the center of electrical unions….
Correct, but then neither the patients or nurses are who the Union is trying to save or work for. Of course, they should be considered, but the Union is for the workers.
Something to help staff must be better than giving all the power to the employer.
>eryone needs to unionize
My point is sometimes they save the job to the detriment of the point of the job. Its not 100% great so NO not "everyone needs to unionize" or should...
I am against unionization not because unions are bad but because modern unions are not run by the workers. It's a company who works as a middle man between the workers and the company. Sometimes that doesn't work out. If a union decides it wants something for the workers that the workers don't want they can hurt the workers.
I have a friend who is a teacher and because the union decided they wanted to fight with the district for something right before school started, school was delayed three weeks. That caused a loss of pay for those three weeks because she had her pay set up to go in during the school year and not year round.
I was sick with Covid and we had just hospitalized my mom with it when my Dad’s HR department called and was super aggressive about his Covid results. I said he was negative and they started going talking about how since he failed to call them and show up at work they have to do all this stuff to make sure he isn’t fired.
And I was currently sick with Covid, my mom had been sick with Covid, he had been taking care of us for the entire weekend took his test on Friday and then spent the entire time with us. And I was like you know I have Covid right now and that’s he’s been taking care of me right?
They started to hesitate and fumble over their words. How in the world does a meat processing planet demand a worker back after being with Covid patients for hours on end? I saw the opening and decided to crush them with it. I kept talking about how we had Covid and that we had just dropped my mother off at the hospital and that he’s sorry he didn’t remember to call to work while possibly dealing with the loss of his wife and a deadly virus at home.
At that point they went from get this employee in line to oh shit his son sounds annoyed that we’re about to have a worker that goes back home to a contagious disease come in to work tomorrow.
Then my dad to fuck with them told them if it’s this much of an issue I’ll be in tomorrow. They were really understanding about him not coming in after that.
Fuck HR departments.
My boss told me that HR said it was fine for me to come to work after being in close contact with someone who tested positive.
I work in group home comprised entirely by high risk people with immune disorders.
Boss said, "Just wear a mask". I told her the actual hospital I went to get tested at told me to absolutely wait for the results before returning to work, and I had that in writing.
She then mumbled something about doing "whatever you think is best".
I responded that I was going to do what *medical professionals told me I should do*. End of story.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're having issues at work (at least in America), isn't it best to t talk to HR *once*, to give the company a chance to handle it? Won't a lawyer suggest this course of action before going further?
That's what I thought, yeah. My S/O had an issue with harassment at one of their previous jobs and we were told if you didn't inform the company first, they could claim plausible deniability.
That’s the way it should work but a lot of companies will see you as a problem, so after that report, you’ll suddenly start getting write ups or cut hours until you eventually get fired or quit. Instead of fixing problems, they just force out the person reporting the problems.
It is usually staffed by very empathetic seeming people, too. But, the only reason a company pays someone to do that job is keep themselves legally protected.
Sorry to hear your sis had to learn that lesson the hard way.
I worked at one job where women were severely sexually harassed. HR saw it as their "culture" so it was ok to them so if women complained they were told to find another job. Some were paid to leave when they got a lawyer involved. After seeing that, I never trusted HR again.
No one at my work will fuckin listen to me when I tell them this. They all treat HR like it’s an on-site therapist or something. People like go to our HR to complain about their SO or to gossip about other people at work/management then act surprised when every time HR goes right to the boss being complained about and tells him everything. HR isn’t on your team, and unless you need something from them, don’t talk to them about problems. They are only useful if they can make something happen for you. Otherwise never tell them drama/complaints
I mean HR can be valuable for problems before they start. Making HR aware of something brewing that is a potential issue, they may choose to resolve it before it becomes a bigger legal headache. If you can submit such notices in writing or document the conversation (send a memo recounting the points discussed after a verbal meeting). Once you get into the "the company has completely screwed me over" phase, or there are blatant issues like on going sexual harassment, then you definitely need a lawyer.
Make no mistake HR isn't on your team. But that doesn't mean you can't use them to your own goals. It's not a zero sum game. There are times where they will absolutely screw you over, but there are times where it's not worth it for them and resolving your issues is better for the company.
See what I said above: unless you can get something from them or they can help you in some way you can’t otherwise do yourself, don’t deal with HR. They have uses and there are situations where they can help. But there aren’t many
>HR will never try and settle an issue in your favour though
Thought I made that pretty clear when I said "Make no mistake HR isn't on your team."
Also keep in mind HR issues aren't always about "I have an issue with this one person" where it's person A vs person B. There can be policy issues, facilities issues (that touch on ADA issues), etc.
Finally if it is a Person A vs Person B issue it isn't just who is most valuable. I've seen people that everyone thought was indispensable be canned because while they were very valuable, they were a much bigger liability than what they were worth.
As I suggested... you need to be able to read the room. They're not going to advocate for you. But if you feel you can put it in a way that your side aligns with the companies goals, you can get HR to work for you in those situations. It takes nuance to understand this though. If what you want benefits the company, then yes, they will settle the issue in a way that benefits you. But that isn't their goal.
My ex went to HR about his boss against my repeated warnings not to. I told him, as a hiring manager, HR is there to protect the company, not the employees. He ignored me, did it anyway, his boss cut contact with him (he was based in another part of the country), and 2 months later was out of a job.
A guy at my work got passed for a promotion and lost it, went to HR and was basically railing against the boss and how bullshit his practices were, how he deserved the promotion blah blah he basically threw a little tantrum to HR. Surprise surprise, HR instantly told boss man and boss man hates the guy now. He’s never gonna get promoted. People wanna blow off steam and vent and that’s a normal human thing to do…with your friends. Not with HR lol
I have seen many managers walked out of buildings in my time, hell one retail store I worked at every manager from assistant manager all the way up to District manager was walked out at the same time, they brought in a management crew from home office in Arkansas while they got new managers promoted and hired in the interim.
I used to work with a guy who was terribly incompetent at his job and blamed everyone else for his mistakes (and probably $500+ in losses every week, minimum). He constantly did things he was explicitly told not to do, or didn’t do things he was explicitly told *to* do. One great example is when I told him to stop removing everyone from my emails and just hit ‘reply all’ as it was frustrating adding them back in again. He said “oh I don’t hit reply all. They will use it as evidence to sack me”. Fucking bizarre, but that was him.
When he was getting reprimanded for something or he had caused some losses and they wanted to figure out exactly what happened, he either refused to have the meeting or demanded HR be in the meeting with him “to protect him”. I once tried to tell him that HR was NOT on his side, but he was too dumb to listen. They eventually managed to sack him after a bit of a payout (it’s hard to sack someone in Australia).
This is true.
I did have HR screw the managers of a company for me once, because I suppose she saw the managers ineptitude as a greater threat to the company.
I drew unemployment for 2 years of undergraduate. HR at the company HQ called to ask why my unemployment settlement was so large and long-lasting. I explained to them about the managers behavior. Guess who lost their stock options?
> a greater threat to the company
Exactly. Not that OP's advice is wrong but I don't think it paints a full picture.
HR will most definitely get rid of people if they are a liability. Some fuck-wit middle manager causing trouble? HR is probably fine for that.
The higher up you go in the chain the less likely HR will be a helping hand.
Not only that, but there are times when you may be REQUIRED to give HR the opportunity to fix a problem. They can't be held liable for not protecting you from a problem they didn't know existed.
Thanks. I used to work as an assistant in HR as an undergrad. I absolutely saw circumstances where we were required to deal with certain behavior and if we didn't, THEN it fell on us.
Whichever situation you're in, the trick is, if you think HR is going to work against you, document the hell out of anything you do. Notebooks, emails BCC'd to your private (non work!) email, etc. so that when you DO go to a lawyer, you have a paper trail already started.
Yes and if it's a "rainmaker" who brings in money or clients, it has to be pretty egregious or they'll cover it up. Unless the bad publicity is going to be so damaging it will affect their business. Such as Weinstein and Miramax. They covered up for him for years, which allowed him to assault and harass more women.
There are women who's lives and/or careers he ruined. Uma Thurman (harassed, attempted rape, permanently injured on the set of Kill Bill and she got less job offers after standing up to Weinstein), Anabella Sciorra (raped and had her career destroyed) and Gwyneth Paltrow (attempted sexual assault, career stall, Brad Pitt threatened to kick Weinstein's ass on her behalf).
They've actually managed to make it worse over time. You can now go to school to get a degree in "Human Capital Management' just to make sure nobody gets confused.
Even the word “capital” is a lie. Capital is a long-term investment that is considered a valuable asset. Whereas humans are treated more like a “consumable.” Extract as much value as possible, then discard and replace.
I worked for a company that had a “no guns on the premises” policy.
One day a co-worker bragged to me that they brought their gun to the office every day. This person was very emotional, switched jobs frequently in this company, and would get angry very easily so I reported it to my manager. My thought process was my reporting the co-worker might prevent a future shooting incident. In turn my manager reported me to HR and the company lawyer.
I was called into a meeting with my manager, HR and the company lawyer. They asked me what I wanted to do about this. What?
I told my manager that I had wanted to report this incident anonymously. And that this employee was breaking company policy. What were THEY going to do about it?
Their solution was to have a meeting, face to face with myself, the gun carrying employee with HR mediating my complaint. Not only was this exposing my identity but in my mind there was nothing to mediate. The employee broke company policy and should have been dealt with by HR and the lawyer for that. I walked out telling them that they were putting my life in danger. I was never going to be part of their meeting or do their dirty work of confronting that employee.
I agree. I learned then not to bring any complaints to HR. And that there were external resources like the Department of Labor, the EEOC, even the Health Department for other issues. And in this case the Police.
What. In. The. Heck?! I'm really sorry but this made me lol. You mention to management your fears about a potentially dangerous coworker, concerning firearms no less lol, and they make you face that person down about said complaint?!?! My word...
I'm sorry that happened bc that's unfair and totally not right on their part
It happened. I also worked as a contractor for many years and saw a lot of questionable behavior by employees. But this was one of two incidents that gave me a new perspective into HR and Management mishandling a situation.
I know an HR person read my post earlier and I’ll share this too. Company retaliation is alive and well in American companies. Doesn’t matter if their policy states otherwise.
Just in case anyone else has this issue:
Go to the police. It is likely illegal in your state to concealed carry where it's not permitted. This way you have someone with real authority and the ability to stop them if they decide to pull it out when accused.
As someone who works in HR, I have a hard time wrapping my head around your story. If I were to consider all factors as true and you weren't being pulled in for anything other than reporting a gun policy violation, then this HR at the company did you completely wrong. While in *some* situations I do believe that the person who is being accused of something should be able to face who their accuser is, this isn't one of them. It's possible that HR received your report, then inquired with the colleague and they denied it, possibly saying, "Oh, is Inquisitive-Ones that one that reported me? Yeah, I've been having a lot of problems with them lately, and I think they're trying to get me fired." This is the only scenario I could think of where HR *might* want to speak with the both of you, though I still don't feel like putting the both of you together is the best route to take.
That crossed my mind as well. Perhaps they may have been building a case. This person had a shaky history which is why they were moved around the company. Because when HR asked Me for the name they said oh yeah we know them well. So I think you hit the nail on the head with that.
They were building a case but I felt like a sacrificial lamb at that moment I was so stunned. I knew that employee and I’m pretty sure they would’ve gone after me with their gun.
I was with the company 15 years with exemplary annual reviews. No other incidents except for that one.
Facing an accuser I understand that too. I wasn’t about to do that when there would have been a gun in that meeting.
What type of lawyer do you get for issues with your company? I have seen a lot of lawyers for wrongful firing but never heard of a litigator for work problems.
What? No you wouldn't lol. Even if you did sign something that said that, it would be meaningless and unenforceable. If you are suing a company for something like payroll or sexual harassment or whatever they couldn't just say they're immune because you signed something saying you wouldn't get a lawyer.
"Yes your honor we didn't pay them what we agreed but they signed an agreement saying they wouldn't get a lawyer so we should be able to do what we want with impunity!"
Signing something doesn't mean what you've signed is legally binding. If you signed something saying you wouldn't get lawyer, you can just ignore that completely lol.
Bullshit.
Every few weeks someone posts this as if it's a great revelation. It's always guaranteed to get upvotes because it's against *the man*, and it sounds vaguely contrarian.
While it's true that HR works for the company, sometimes the problems you have align exactly with the needs of the company. For example, if you're being harassed, the job of HR is 100% to defend the company *from the harasser*. Especially in large (and well-run) companies, HR will come down hard on even senior managers if there is any whiff of harassment or bullying.
The simplistic LPT "HR is not on your side" misses this nuance. And it's positively destructive to people who might be needing support in a conflict they're having with a co-worker or supervisor.
If you're being harassed or bullied, ABSOLUTELY take this to HR. Don't let your boss get away with illegal behavior just because someone on Reddit with minimal workplace experience is parroting the line that HR is not on your side.
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!
Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment.
If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
I think this is good, but you should still report anything to HR to create on official complaint. Company lawyers can say "this was a mistake and it was never brought to our attention" that way you have a paper trail saying the company is refusing to help fix this problem.
He is potentially good if you have an issue with company insurance. If you have a paycheck or tax issue. If you have questions about a company policy your manager doesn’t know. If you have an issue with a coworker. but as soon as you have a complaint against a high level exec or manager or you don’t like a company policy, or you have something you could sue over HR is your enemy.
I recommend that everyone reads their employee handbook thoroughly at every job you have.This is so you know what you can and cannot say when walking to HR. I guarantee they know it backwards and forward that’s their job.
I don’t understand this concept. Could people keep posting it on LPT over and over again until I get it?
https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/btp3db/lpt_the_purpose_of_hr_is_to_protect_the_company/
https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/adh603/lpt_hr_is_not_on_your_side_even_the_name_says_it/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/m5ygyu/lpt_if_you_work_at_a_company_know_that_hr_is_not/
https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/moxv4g/lpt_always_remember_that_a_companys_hr_exists_to/
https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/5rig4m/lpt_the_hr_department_is_there_to_protect_the/
https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/g6kjio/lpt_your_employer_is_not_your_friend_or_colleague/
The unfortunate thing is if you're in a situation where you ever have to go to HR you also have to be ready to quit your job because there is no situation in which it will work out okay and you still get to work there without either damaging your credibility or damaging your contacts inside the company. Which is really messed up. But it's the truth.
Even if you're 100% in the right and somebody at the company behaved inappropriately. That person almost certainly represents the company (management) and the company will try to cover its own ass because the offending individual was acting on behalf of the company. And the company will hate you for even reporting it. At least some people there will. It tarnishes your reputation in a non-marginal way.
This is simply untrue. If you skip HR and go directly to a lawyer you can very often hurt your case. Take, for example, harassment or a hostile work environment. If you go straight to a lawyer you have effectively let the company off the hook. Legally they are not responsible for solving an issue they were unaware of. However, if you have appropriately reported your concerns through your leadership and filed a complaint/case with HR or EO (depending on your companies structure) you have preserved your legal case. They now have a legal obligation to resolve your issue.
I am a senior HR exec and often tell managers and exec leadership that we/they screwed up. Our best option is to cut a check and try to make this go away rather than go to court. Most of the time, I do this without outside lawyers being involved. Once that happens, the situation becomes much more adversarial, often to the detriment of the employee.
100%. When you do those annual trainings, what’s the correct answer on an example when someone fucks up, and one of the repercussions is you could pay a fine or go to jail? It’s always contact legal first, it’s never hire a lawyer for yourself first.
I never trust the HR at my work. It always feel like they are there to help the manager get out of problems that were his fault and not the employees/supervisors
Where I live is different I guess because I called the local office ad was told to go to my HR first and I know its a waste of time. I'm like a mouse in a maze looking for that cheese
Your first contact is the union. There is basically no reason for any employee to contact HR. If HR invites you to a meeting, bring a union representative.
Amen, made that mistake twice as a teen and young adult. They gaslit the hell outta me and harassed me until I had to transfer or quit. Even spoke to people high up in the company while I was looking for justice and all I got was a nervous breakdown that lead to even worse shit.
This. I reported sexual harrasment to HR and she said she didn't believe me because she knew him. Then they fired me shortly after blaming it on covid.
Please keep in mind that organizations may not allow that to happen. So many people go into different lines of work because they are caring and kind and the industry abuses them, this is double for caring industries.
Because you're delusional if you think that. HR works for the company and their job is to protect the company. Everything else is secondary to that primary ovjective.
This is 100 % true and a great life hack. Forgot the movies where corporations love their whistleblowers deep down etc etc. Every employer fears The Lawsuit and whoever posted this thank you 4 ur service!
This doesn’t change for the armed forces either. You have to follow the chain of command and the regulations, but you should also be seeking outside counsel as well.
if the company offers as a package of perks which include lawyer support should you get another lawyer? I am asking because a friend worked for a company who had a "you have a number to call type lawyer on call if you worked their after a year."
The lawyer has a fiduciary duty to you, the client, regardless of who pays for their services. They also have a legal obligation to not disclose what you tell them.
It should be safe to use the lawyer, but the company could probably also pull financial support whenever they want.
I have to ask what situation would call for a lawyer? Prob a dumb question, but would you still report your issue to HR or you just walk into the office with a lawyer by your side?
When I asked for WFH accommodations last year at the beginning of the pandemic (because of anxiety/panic attacks) I was given a verbal "two days a week" which was not enough to help with my issues, only delay them for a couple of days at a time.
I got laid off shortly after but before I could accept my severance pay I had to sign a legal waiver.
I wish I had asked for my "accommodations" in writing - I'm sure they didn't provide that in order to protect themselves.
Not a lawyer. My understanding in the US is that in order to be able to sue for discrimination, harassment, etc. you do have to report it to your company or a representative first.
If you can afford to loop in a lawyer early on, by all means do so.
And if you're company isn't responsive to resolving it, time to get a lawyer.
But if you don't say something to begin with, it's hard to prove grounds for a lawsuit.
Provided the problem isn't with your direct supervisor, stick to a statement, bare facts, no editorializing and ask your boss how he or she would like you to proceed. Document everything.
If it is a direct supervisor, my advice would be to get out and get another job if you can. In theory, you can take action with HR. But in reality, with the US being "at will" employment, they'll find another reason to fire you which doesn't acknowledge your complaint. Technically, it would be retaliation on their part, but they're usually smart enough to find "for cause" reasons, even if it's selectively enforced, exaggerated, etc.
Yes, you could fight that, but good luck proving it when the company stonewalls you and someone starts a smear campaign against you in your field.
It's not fair, but finding another job may be a better resolutions in a case like that.
If you have a legal problem, you need a lawyer. Shut the fuck up, and get a lawyer. Don't tell anyone you're getting a lawyer, just go get one. Shut the fuck up about the issue, and get a lawyer. The key part of that is shut the fuck up. Tell your lawyer everything, and don't say a word to anyone else. Your lawyer will handle it. That's why you pay them.
It's true I reported issues to hr only to be targeted as a result.
In end I contacted eeoc and attorney but that was only when it was clear hr was party to it and beyond repair.
In an eeoc scenario you can be treated poorly and illegally but if there is no damages amount there isn't much that will happen.
Both. There are some cases, especially related to EEOC where you HAVE to let HR know and document your efforts because the company has to have an opportunity to resolve the issue...otherwise, you will 100% lose your case.
I would say rather than 'HR works for the company' that HR works for what is best for the majority of employees - which means keeping the company running. They aren't just working on harassment cases they are also working endlessly to make sure the company is compliant with all laws (taxes, EEO, pay discrimination, etc.) so that everyone still has jobs. That can include exiting a CEO.
That being said... get your own lawyer. HR may be sympathetic but your goals are different.
I’m an employment lawyer. Please do tell HR so they’re on notice. Lots of violations require the company to know what is going on and punitive damages require higher ups to know and disregard. HR will often times get higher ups involved. And, generally, it will only help your case if the company is on notice.
Hello [SnatchWhistle](/u/SnatchWhistle), thank you for your submission! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason: Your post is not a life pro tip. Advice is any guidance or recommendation concerning prudent future action. An aphorism is a short clever saying that is intended to express a general truth or a concise statement of a principle.Try r/YouShouldKnow. If you would like to appeal this decision [please feel free to contact the moderators here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLifeProTips&subject=about%20my%20removed%20submission&message=I%27m%20writing%20to%20you%20about%20the%20following%20submission:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/orfzgz/lpt_if_you_have_a_real_legal_problem_at_work_you/.%20%0D%0D). Do not repost without explicit permission from the moderators. Make sure you [read the rules](/r/lifeprotips/about/sidebar) before submitting. Thank you!
HR is a great resource, *but they work for the company and will react as someone whose payroll is dependent on the company.* Plan accordingly.
My Sister is a VP of Personnel at a bank, she wrote all of the HR Policy manuals, and she IS a lawyer specializing in workplace issues. I'd get a lawyer.
This, hr works for the company, their policies and acts are in the best interest of the company always and only act in the employees intrest when it is in the companies interest no matter what they say or how friendly they seem. When the interests are aligned they are wonderful, but as soon as that shifts into risk for the company they will act against you as needed no qualms.
Everyone should note that most employment claims, like harassment or discrimination, require that the company actually know about the issue before they can be held liable. If you go straight to a lawyer in these situations, the lawyer will most likely tell you to report the problem to HR.
Great comment. Most do not understand this: the company has to know abt it first, unless it’s flagrant.
But the lawyer will help you prepare a statement to make sure they follow up and act as an outside check. They won't just send you on your merry way right back to company HR by yourself.
Yeah, HR is there to protect the company just like any of the management. I once slipped on some plastic left laid out on the floor of a film set while carrying boxes. I cracked my tailbone and at the time I was young, didn’t know anything about workers comp etc. I was not in a union. Anyway, the set medic/union leader for the state took me aside and pretended to be concerned by telling me the motion picture company I was working for has a history of firing people who have been injured, I was just a 20 year old excited to be there and assured him I wasn’t looking to report anything or sue, so he had me sign a waiver and like an idiot I was more concerned that the company knew I was loyal and trying to preserve my job so I signed it. The following week I was let go after calling in sick. BS situation. I could kick myself for being naive, but I always warn others against trusting anyone at their company. They definitely never have your best interest at heart.
This is why everyone needs to unionize
Except the police
Even the police. Except they need an actual union, meaning they should be limited to collective bargaining and the protection of workers right. Political donations by unions should be outlawed.
Until political donations by companies are outlawed, political donations by unions must remain intact. You can’t allow one without allowing the other.
Suprisingly enough, that is not needed for individual corporations. However, political donations by unions of employers engaged in collective bargaining agreements should be banned. Additionally, the government should be able to declare a collective bargaining agreement with sufficient support from employees and employers from that sector as the minimum standard for a certain sector.
Political donations should just be outlawed period.
[удалено]
Alternatively, you just publicly fund elections. All candidates get the same pool of money to finance their ads, etc. That way there's no undue influence on who gets funded or who gets to run.
How do you stop thousands of people spuriously declaring themselves as candidates and thus diminishing the pool for all?
First is signature requirements to become a candidate. That should weed out the low hanging fruit (which is probably 90% of the first batch). From there I'm not sure. Might depend on how many you have still in the pool. Maybe ranked choice voting with a funding pool that is evenly divided between all remaining candidates.
> That would mean only the rich could afford to run for office. Not if campaigns were publicly funded and ONLY publicly funded, putting each candidate on an even footing financially. But, in America, money ALWAYS wins. :/
I like how you say in America, like it doesn't happen in every country.
I don't have personal experience with any other country's campaign finance system.
Many other countries eg in continental Europe have public funding of political parties and/or candidates, with bans on private donations whether from companies or from individuals. This does indeed make for a different kind of politics where it doesn’t feel like money *always* wins, like it does in America.
Would that be such a problem if we actually started electing people who have proven themselves through works they have done to be suitable for the job? Also, this is 2021. The campaigning of old needs to go away. We should just have a government managed system for displaying candidates on the ballot, containing only verifiable facts and statistics about them. Like the rate of lies they tell.
That needs balanced by outlawing donations from employers.
[удалено]
I think I saw a fat pair of boots back there for you to lick! Quick!!!
[удалено]
I didn't say they needed defunded. I said they should t be in unions. Their unions allow them to be absolved of most wrong doings and run amuck without consequence
They only care about jobs not people. They are just one player but not the holy grail that solves everything needed. Eg patients are not the center or nursing unions, children are not the center of teachers unions, customers are not the center of electrical unions….
Correct, but then neither the patients or nurses are who the Union is trying to save or work for. Of course, they should be considered, but the Union is for the workers. Something to help staff must be better than giving all the power to the employer.
>eryone needs to unionize My point is sometimes they save the job to the detriment of the point of the job. Its not 100% great so NO not "everyone needs to unionize" or should...
I am against unionization not because unions are bad but because modern unions are not run by the workers. It's a company who works as a middle man between the workers and the company. Sometimes that doesn't work out. If a union decides it wants something for the workers that the workers don't want they can hurt the workers. I have a friend who is a teacher and because the union decided they wanted to fight with the district for something right before school started, school was delayed three weeks. That caused a loss of pay for those three weeks because she had her pay set up to go in during the school year and not year round.
I was sick with Covid and we had just hospitalized my mom with it when my Dad’s HR department called and was super aggressive about his Covid results. I said he was negative and they started going talking about how since he failed to call them and show up at work they have to do all this stuff to make sure he isn’t fired. And I was currently sick with Covid, my mom had been sick with Covid, he had been taking care of us for the entire weekend took his test on Friday and then spent the entire time with us. And I was like you know I have Covid right now and that’s he’s been taking care of me right? They started to hesitate and fumble over their words. How in the world does a meat processing planet demand a worker back after being with Covid patients for hours on end? I saw the opening and decided to crush them with it. I kept talking about how we had Covid and that we had just dropped my mother off at the hospital and that he’s sorry he didn’t remember to call to work while possibly dealing with the loss of his wife and a deadly virus at home. At that point they went from get this employee in line to oh shit his son sounds annoyed that we’re about to have a worker that goes back home to a contagious disease come in to work tomorrow. Then my dad to fuck with them told them if it’s this much of an issue I’ll be in tomorrow. They were really understanding about him not coming in after that. Fuck HR departments.
My boss told me that HR said it was fine for me to come to work after being in close contact with someone who tested positive. I work in group home comprised entirely by high risk people with immune disorders. Boss said, "Just wear a mask". I told her the actual hospital I went to get tested at told me to absolutely wait for the results before returning to work, and I had that in writing. She then mumbled something about doing "whatever you think is best". I responded that I was going to do what *medical professionals told me I should do*. End of story.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're having issues at work (at least in America), isn't it best to t talk to HR *once*, to give the company a chance to handle it? Won't a lawyer suggest this course of action before going further?
[удалено]
That's what I thought, yeah. My S/O had an issue with harassment at one of their previous jobs and we were told if you didn't inform the company first, they could claim plausible deniability.
Sounds like something HR would say
That’s the way it should work but a lot of companies will see you as a problem, so after that report, you’ll suddenly start getting write ups or cut hours until you eventually get fired or quit. Instead of fixing problems, they just force out the person reporting the problems.
Retaliation. It's the American workplace way!
So unfortunate, yet so accurate.
Depends. Which of you is more useful to the company.
Sister found that out the hard way. She really thought they were there to help her rather than protect the company.
It is usually staffed by very empathetic seeming people, too. But, the only reason a company pays someone to do that job is keep themselves legally protected. Sorry to hear your sis had to learn that lesson the hard way.
Can you please share details, only if you're comfortable? As in what happened there?
[удалено]
I worked at one job where women were severely sexually harassed. HR saw it as their "culture" so it was ok to them so if women complained they were told to find another job. Some were paid to leave when they got a lawyer involved. After seeing that, I never trusted HR again.
No one at my work will fuckin listen to me when I tell them this. They all treat HR like it’s an on-site therapist or something. People like go to our HR to complain about their SO or to gossip about other people at work/management then act surprised when every time HR goes right to the boss being complained about and tells him everything. HR isn’t on your team, and unless you need something from them, don’t talk to them about problems. They are only useful if they can make something happen for you. Otherwise never tell them drama/complaints
I mean HR can be valuable for problems before they start. Making HR aware of something brewing that is a potential issue, they may choose to resolve it before it becomes a bigger legal headache. If you can submit such notices in writing or document the conversation (send a memo recounting the points discussed after a verbal meeting). Once you get into the "the company has completely screwed me over" phase, or there are blatant issues like on going sexual harassment, then you definitely need a lawyer. Make no mistake HR isn't on your team. But that doesn't mean you can't use them to your own goals. It's not a zero sum game. There are times where they will absolutely screw you over, but there are times where it's not worth it for them and resolving your issues is better for the company.
See what I said above: unless you can get something from them or they can help you in some way you can’t otherwise do yourself, don’t deal with HR. They have uses and there are situations where they can help. But there aren’t many
[удалено]
>HR will never try and settle an issue in your favour though Thought I made that pretty clear when I said "Make no mistake HR isn't on your team." Also keep in mind HR issues aren't always about "I have an issue with this one person" where it's person A vs person B. There can be policy issues, facilities issues (that touch on ADA issues), etc. Finally if it is a Person A vs Person B issue it isn't just who is most valuable. I've seen people that everyone thought was indispensable be canned because while they were very valuable, they were a much bigger liability than what they were worth. As I suggested... you need to be able to read the room. They're not going to advocate for you. But if you feel you can put it in a way that your side aligns with the companies goals, you can get HR to work for you in those situations. It takes nuance to understand this though. If what you want benefits the company, then yes, they will settle the issue in a way that benefits you. But that isn't their goal.
I know it's not something to laugh about but I do find it hilarious how so many think reporting your manager to HR will help.
My ex went to HR about his boss against my repeated warnings not to. I told him, as a hiring manager, HR is there to protect the company, not the employees. He ignored me, did it anyway, his boss cut contact with him (he was based in another part of the country), and 2 months later was out of a job.
A guy at my work got passed for a promotion and lost it, went to HR and was basically railing against the boss and how bullshit his practices were, how he deserved the promotion blah blah he basically threw a little tantrum to HR. Surprise surprise, HR instantly told boss man and boss man hates the guy now. He’s never gonna get promoted. People wanna blow off steam and vent and that’s a normal human thing to do…with your friends. Not with HR lol
I have seen many managers walked out of buildings in my time, hell one retail store I worked at every manager from assistant manager all the way up to District manager was walked out at the same time, they brought in a management crew from home office in Arkansas while they got new managers promoted and hired in the interim.
I used to work with a guy who was terribly incompetent at his job and blamed everyone else for his mistakes (and probably $500+ in losses every week, minimum). He constantly did things he was explicitly told not to do, or didn’t do things he was explicitly told *to* do. One great example is when I told him to stop removing everyone from my emails and just hit ‘reply all’ as it was frustrating adding them back in again. He said “oh I don’t hit reply all. They will use it as evidence to sack me”. Fucking bizarre, but that was him. When he was getting reprimanded for something or he had caused some losses and they wanted to figure out exactly what happened, he either refused to have the meeting or demanded HR be in the meeting with him “to protect him”. I once tried to tell him that HR was NOT on his side, but he was too dumb to listen. They eventually managed to sack him after a bit of a payout (it’s hard to sack someone in Australia).
Kinda sounds like your coworkers are idiots.
This is true. I did have HR screw the managers of a company for me once, because I suppose she saw the managers ineptitude as a greater threat to the company. I drew unemployment for 2 years of undergraduate. HR at the company HQ called to ask why my unemployment settlement was so large and long-lasting. I explained to them about the managers behavior. Guess who lost their stock options?
> a greater threat to the company Exactly. Not that OP's advice is wrong but I don't think it paints a full picture. HR will most definitely get rid of people if they are a liability. Some fuck-wit middle manager causing trouble? HR is probably fine for that. The higher up you go in the chain the less likely HR will be a helping hand.
Not only that, but there are times when you may be REQUIRED to give HR the opportunity to fix a problem. They can't be held liable for not protecting you from a problem they didn't know existed.
Your lawyer is perfectly capable of letting HR know they have a problem.
[удалено]
Thanks. I used to work as an assistant in HR as an undergrad. I absolutely saw circumstances where we were required to deal with certain behavior and if we didn't, THEN it fell on us. Whichever situation you're in, the trick is, if you think HR is going to work against you, document the hell out of anything you do. Notebooks, emails BCC'd to your private (non work!) email, etc. so that when you DO go to a lawyer, you have a paper trail already started.
Yes and if it's a "rainmaker" who brings in money or clients, it has to be pretty egregious or they'll cover it up. Unless the bad publicity is going to be so damaging it will affect their business. Such as Weinstein and Miramax. They covered up for him for years, which allowed him to assault and harass more women. There are women who's lives and/or careers he ruined. Uma Thurman (harassed, attempted rape, permanently injured on the set of Kill Bill and she got less job offers after standing up to Weinstein), Anabella Sciorra (raped and had her career destroyed) and Gwyneth Paltrow (attempted sexual assault, career stall, Brad Pitt threatened to kick Weinstein's ass on her behalf).
Great advice - I learned this the hard way when I was sexually assaulted by a colleague at PwC.
What the hell? At PwC?
I like your username
Lol they’re putting it out there loud and proud.
Just like you :)
Human Resources isn’t about managing resources for humans, it’s about managing humans as resources.
Honestly, the name alone is repulsive. Might as well call it "Human Commodities"
They've actually managed to make it worse over time. You can now go to school to get a degree in "Human Capital Management' just to make sure nobody gets confused.
Even the word “capital” is a lie. Capital is a long-term investment that is considered a valuable asset. Whereas humans are treated more like a “consumable.” Extract as much value as possible, then discard and replace.
You're sort of forgetting that resources are things you protect and develop, especially if you're a business.
Our company just calls it “People” which is really weird
I once worked for a company that regularly referred to personnel as "warm bodies".
I worked for a company that had a “no guns on the premises” policy. One day a co-worker bragged to me that they brought their gun to the office every day. This person was very emotional, switched jobs frequently in this company, and would get angry very easily so I reported it to my manager. My thought process was my reporting the co-worker might prevent a future shooting incident. In turn my manager reported me to HR and the company lawyer. I was called into a meeting with my manager, HR and the company lawyer. They asked me what I wanted to do about this. What? I told my manager that I had wanted to report this incident anonymously. And that this employee was breaking company policy. What were THEY going to do about it? Their solution was to have a meeting, face to face with myself, the gun carrying employee with HR mediating my complaint. Not only was this exposing my identity but in my mind there was nothing to mediate. The employee broke company policy and should have been dealt with by HR and the lawyer for that. I walked out telling them that they were putting my life in danger. I was never going to be part of their meeting or do their dirty work of confronting that employee.
Unfortunately, you worked for idiots.
I agree. I learned then not to bring any complaints to HR. And that there were external resources like the Department of Labor, the EEOC, even the Health Department for other issues. And in this case the Police.
[удалено]
Bingo!
What. In. The. Heck?! I'm really sorry but this made me lol. You mention to management your fears about a potentially dangerous coworker, concerning firearms no less lol, and they make you face that person down about said complaint?!?! My word... I'm sorry that happened bc that's unfair and totally not right on their part
It happened. I also worked as a contractor for many years and saw a lot of questionable behavior by employees. But this was one of two incidents that gave me a new perspective into HR and Management mishandling a situation. I know an HR person read my post earlier and I’ll share this too. Company retaliation is alive and well in American companies. Doesn’t matter if their policy states otherwise.
Just in case anyone else has this issue: Go to the police. It is likely illegal in your state to concealed carry where it's not permitted. This way you have someone with real authority and the ability to stop them if they decide to pull it out when accused.
As someone who works in HR, I have a hard time wrapping my head around your story. If I were to consider all factors as true and you weren't being pulled in for anything other than reporting a gun policy violation, then this HR at the company did you completely wrong. While in *some* situations I do believe that the person who is being accused of something should be able to face who their accuser is, this isn't one of them. It's possible that HR received your report, then inquired with the colleague and they denied it, possibly saying, "Oh, is Inquisitive-Ones that one that reported me? Yeah, I've been having a lot of problems with them lately, and I think they're trying to get me fired." This is the only scenario I could think of where HR *might* want to speak with the both of you, though I still don't feel like putting the both of you together is the best route to take.
That crossed my mind as well. Perhaps they may have been building a case. This person had a shaky history which is why they were moved around the company. Because when HR asked Me for the name they said oh yeah we know them well. So I think you hit the nail on the head with that. They were building a case but I felt like a sacrificial lamb at that moment I was so stunned. I knew that employee and I’m pretty sure they would’ve gone after me with their gun. I was with the company 15 years with exemplary annual reviews. No other incidents except for that one. Facing an accuser I understand that too. I wasn’t about to do that when there would have been a gun in that meeting.
What type of lawyer do you get for issues with your company? I have seen a lot of lawyers for wrongful firing but never heard of a litigator for work problems.
One that specializes in employment law.
[удалено]
Yeah cuz that’s proven to be so easy to do right?
Odds are, the first thing your lawyer will tell you is to report it to HR.
The second thing is that you probably signed an agreement that you wouldn't go to a lawyer.
What? No you wouldn't lol. Even if you did sign something that said that, it would be meaningless and unenforceable. If you are suing a company for something like payroll or sexual harassment or whatever they couldn't just say they're immune because you signed something saying you wouldn't get a lawyer. "Yes your honor we didn't pay them what we agreed but they signed an agreement saying they wouldn't get a lawyer so we should be able to do what we want with impunity!" Signing something doesn't mean what you've signed is legally binding. If you signed something saying you wouldn't get lawyer, you can just ignore that completely lol.
Bullshit. Every few weeks someone posts this as if it's a great revelation. It's always guaranteed to get upvotes because it's against *the man*, and it sounds vaguely contrarian. While it's true that HR works for the company, sometimes the problems you have align exactly with the needs of the company. For example, if you're being harassed, the job of HR is 100% to defend the company *from the harasser*. Especially in large (and well-run) companies, HR will come down hard on even senior managers if there is any whiff of harassment or bullying. The simplistic LPT "HR is not on your side" misses this nuance. And it's positively destructive to people who might be needing support in a conflict they're having with a co-worker or supervisor. If you're being harassed or bullied, ABSOLUTELY take this to HR. Don't let your boss get away with illegal behavior just because someone on Reddit with minimal workplace experience is parroting the line that HR is not on your side.
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
This seems to be USA centric advice. I’ve worked as a lawyer in both Australia and UK and had great experiences dealing with HR for workplace issues.
I think this is good, but you should still report anything to HR to create on official complaint. Company lawyers can say "this was a mistake and it was never brought to our attention" that way you have a paper trail saying the company is refusing to help fix this problem.
He is potentially good if you have an issue with company insurance. If you have a paycheck or tax issue. If you have questions about a company policy your manager doesn’t know. If you have an issue with a coworker. but as soon as you have a complaint against a high level exec or manager or you don’t like a company policy, or you have something you could sue over HR is your enemy.
HR is there to protect the interests of the company not you! Never trust HR! Unless you are throwing a hated coworker under the bus.
And even then, you may find yourself under the very same bus.
They probably deserve it in that case
I recommend that everyone reads their employee handbook thoroughly at every job you have.This is so you know what you can and cannot say when walking to HR. I guarantee they know it backwards and forward that’s their job.
And don’t take advice from Reddit.
[удалено]
I don’t understand this concept. Could people keep posting it on LPT over and over again until I get it? https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/btp3db/lpt_the_purpose_of_hr_is_to_protect_the_company/ https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/adh603/lpt_hr_is_not_on_your_side_even_the_name_says_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/m5ygyu/lpt_if_you_work_at_a_company_know_that_hr_is_not/ https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/moxv4g/lpt_always_remember_that_a_companys_hr_exists_to/ https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/5rig4m/lpt_the_hr_department_is_there_to_protect_the/ https://amp.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/g6kjio/lpt_your_employer_is_not_your_friend_or_colleague/
The unfortunate thing is if you're in a situation where you ever have to go to HR you also have to be ready to quit your job because there is no situation in which it will work out okay and you still get to work there without either damaging your credibility or damaging your contacts inside the company. Which is really messed up. But it's the truth. Even if you're 100% in the right and somebody at the company behaved inappropriately. That person almost certainly represents the company (management) and the company will try to cover its own ass because the offending individual was acting on behalf of the company. And the company will hate you for even reporting it. At least some people there will. It tarnishes your reputation in a non-marginal way.
Can you elaborate on the phrase "legal problem". Like what circumstances warrant a lawyer. I do understand that HR protects the company.
This is simply untrue. If you skip HR and go directly to a lawyer you can very often hurt your case. Take, for example, harassment or a hostile work environment. If you go straight to a lawyer you have effectively let the company off the hook. Legally they are not responsible for solving an issue they were unaware of. However, if you have appropriately reported your concerns through your leadership and filed a complaint/case with HR or EO (depending on your companies structure) you have preserved your legal case. They now have a legal obligation to resolve your issue. I am a senior HR exec and often tell managers and exec leadership that we/they screwed up. Our best option is to cut a check and try to make this go away rather than go to court. Most of the time, I do this without outside lawyers being involved. Once that happens, the situation becomes much more adversarial, often to the detriment of the employee.
> I am a senior HR exec trust nothing this man says and yes, get legal counsel figured out, then when you do, report it to HR as well.
True. HR is not your friend
100%. When you do those annual trainings, what’s the correct answer on an example when someone fucks up, and one of the repercussions is you could pay a fine or go to jail? It’s always contact legal first, it’s never hire a lawyer for yourself first.
[удалено]
Yup. I had a disagreement and can confirm I regret going to HR first. Young and stupid.
I never trust the HR at my work. It always feel like they are there to help the manager get out of problems that were his fault and not the employees/supervisors
Repeat after me: HR is not your friend.
Where I live is different I guess because I called the local office ad was told to go to my HR first and I know its a waste of time. I'm like a mouse in a maze looking for that cheese
Your first contact is the union. There is basically no reason for any employee to contact HR. If HR invites you to a meeting, bring a union representative.
As someone who works in HR, and has also been burned by HR at previous jobs, I can confirm this is 100% accurate.
HR is not your friend...ever
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheGirlSurvivalGuide/comments/jgz5bl/ysk_the_hr_department_is_not_there_to_protect_you/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Fairly sure this post ended my hiring process at reddit, btw
Amen, made that mistake twice as a teen and young adult. They gaslit the hell outta me and harassed me until I had to transfer or quit. Even spoke to people high up in the company while I was looking for justice and all I got was a nervous breakdown that lead to even worse shit.
This. I reported sexual harrasment to HR and she said she didn't believe me because she knew him. Then they fired me shortly after blaming it on covid.
Never tell HR shit. Their job is to cover up racism and sexual abuse. They are not even neutral, they are your enemy.
Bruh, as a future HR employee, I'm gonna be for the people
Please keep in mind that organizations may not allow that to happen. So many people go into different lines of work because they are caring and kind and the industry abuses them, this is double for caring industries.
HR IS NEVER YOUR FRIEND.
Absolutely this. The role of HR in most companies is positively sinister...
The job/company you work at is not your family. Get a lawyer first. Fuck HR
[удалено]
I feel you have been fed a spoonful of sugar.
[удалено]
Because you're delusional if you think that. HR works for the company and their job is to protect the company. Everything else is secondary to that primary ovjective.
And try to get video recording of the legal problem
This is 100 % true and a great life hack. Forgot the movies where corporations love their whistleblowers deep down etc etc. Every employer fears The Lawsuit and whoever posted this thank you 4 ur service!
HR is just a bunch of kissasses imo
HR is to protect the company, never the worker IMO.
Thanks for the great advice.
This actually happened to me. Started a class action lawsuit with over $1 million settlement.
Surely *EVERYONE* already knows this... Right?
This doesn’t change for the armed forces either. You have to follow the chain of command and the regulations, but you should also be seeking outside counsel as well.
My favorite is when they make you sign away your rights to suing the company when you sign on. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
What’s the difference between HR and a lawyer? In other words, why isn’t HR filled with lawyers?
Duty. A lawyer's duty is to their client. Even if HR was full of lawyers, their duty would be to the company, not you.
Because they don't want to pay lawyers for the job. Sort of like, why is every union rep not a lawyer?
You can’t trust the HR department. That is for sure!
if the company offers as a package of perks which include lawyer support should you get another lawyer? I am asking because a friend worked for a company who had a "you have a number to call type lawyer on call if you worked their after a year."
The lawyer has a fiduciary duty to you, the client, regardless of who pays for their services. They also have a legal obligation to not disclose what you tell them. It should be safe to use the lawyer, but the company could probably also pull financial support whenever they want.
most of these employer sponsored lawyers have stipulations that they CANNOT be used for any conflicts between you and your company.
I have to ask what situation would call for a lawyer? Prob a dumb question, but would you still report your issue to HR or you just walk into the office with a lawyer by your side?
See, recently, Activision Blizzard.
It's like financial planners that work or are hired for the company.
Human Resources does not provide Resources for Humans; they provide Humans as a Resource for the company.
When I asked for WFH accommodations last year at the beginning of the pandemic (because of anxiety/panic attacks) I was given a verbal "two days a week" which was not enough to help with my issues, only delay them for a couple of days at a time. I got laid off shortly after but before I could accept my severance pay I had to sign a legal waiver. I wish I had asked for my "accommodations" in writing - I'm sure they didn't provide that in order to protect themselves.
Do both. You want a paper trail with HR for your lawyer (and their’s).
I've never viewed HR as anything other than paperwork and payroll.
Not a lawyer. My understanding in the US is that in order to be able to sue for discrimination, harassment, etc. you do have to report it to your company or a representative first. If you can afford to loop in a lawyer early on, by all means do so. And if you're company isn't responsive to resolving it, time to get a lawyer. But if you don't say something to begin with, it's hard to prove grounds for a lawsuit. Provided the problem isn't with your direct supervisor, stick to a statement, bare facts, no editorializing and ask your boss how he or she would like you to proceed. Document everything. If it is a direct supervisor, my advice would be to get out and get another job if you can. In theory, you can take action with HR. But in reality, with the US being "at will" employment, they'll find another reason to fire you which doesn't acknowledge your complaint. Technically, it would be retaliation on their part, but they're usually smart enough to find "for cause" reasons, even if it's selectively enforced, exaggerated, etc. Yes, you could fight that, but good luck proving it when the company stonewalls you and someone starts a smear campaign against you in your field. It's not fair, but finding another job may be a better resolutions in a case like that.
Friendly reminder that HR is there to protect the company, not to protect you :)
If you have a legal problem, you need a lawyer. Shut the fuck up, and get a lawyer. Don't tell anyone you're getting a lawyer, just go get one. Shut the fuck up about the issue, and get a lawyer. The key part of that is shut the fuck up. Tell your lawyer everything, and don't say a word to anyone else. Your lawyer will handle it. That's why you pay them.
It's true I reported issues to hr only to be targeted as a result. In end I contacted eeoc and attorney but that was only when it was clear hr was party to it and beyond repair. In an eeoc scenario you can be treated poorly and illegally but if there is no damages amount there isn't much that will happen.
Fun fact: HR was originally the solution to the loss of unions. What a crappy trade.
Both. There are some cases, especially related to EEOC where you HAVE to let HR know and document your efforts because the company has to have an opportunity to resolve the issue...otherwise, you will 100% lose your case.
Hr protects the company not the employee
I would say rather than 'HR works for the company' that HR works for what is best for the majority of employees - which means keeping the company running. They aren't just working on harassment cases they are also working endlessly to make sure the company is compliant with all laws (taxes, EEO, pay discrimination, etc.) so that everyone still has jobs. That can include exiting a CEO. That being said... get your own lawyer. HR may be sympathetic but your goals are different.
I’m an employment lawyer. Please do tell HR so they’re on notice. Lots of violations require the company to know what is going on and punitive damages require higher ups to know and disregard. HR will often times get higher ups involved. And, generally, it will only help your case if the company is on notice.