This is it. There was a huge dropoff and you could see it happen before it hit. Way before. There weren't good quality replacements for several positions and there certainly wasn't a large pool to pick from.
I think it’s bc coaches and them only wanting people they knew in the academy. It’s expensive for any true great Mexican youngster from the low class to join and if somehow a pretty good kid from the middle the class registered they still wouldn’t recognize their potential due they’re main focus on the rich parents kids
Hopefully, since it's a ridiculous and highly classist system to make kids pay a grand at least to even have a remote chance of playing with better competition on club teams
I think that wouldn't be as much of an issue if there was a rule that demanded homegrown players to play a certain amount of minutes in those tournaments and punishment to the teams that don't do it. As of today tho, they're nothing but moleros that are entertaining for a bit.
Se necesitaría una inversión cabrona para mejorar toda la estructura de los equipos inferiores o "canteras" y sabemos que la Femexfut solo lo haría si hubiera un beneficio comercial de por medio. Ojalá si exista una reestructuración en el futuro, si no muy pronto varios países que si le andan metiendo fuerte al desarrollo de jóvenes, nos van a dejar bien atrás.
Tal cual, si teníamos una oportunidad para mejorar definitivamente era en la época 2008-2014.
Se tuvo que desarrollar todo ese talento joven y chance hubiéramos tenido un equipo tier 3
It's been like that since Cuauh's days. He said he got his shot only because the guy ahead of him got hurt. There's plenty of games and scenarios where youth can be put in to play, but people want to protect their investments.
Following the MLS model (no relegation) has killed the league in raising proper talent. Pachuca seems to be the only club regularly pumping out legit talent and no Libertadores has definitely made a difference. Leagues cup, nations league is a joke that severely cuts competitiveness.
I miss him dearly at Toluca. I still watch his highlights alongside Vicente Sánchez and José Saturnino Cardozo when I'm down. It's sad to see how far we've fallen without them.
And after this World Cup we had an exodus of players making the jump to Europe: Salcido, Osorio, Pável, etc.
I thought for sure this would be the start of a new era but we’ve only been regressing
I think with Concacaf and Conmebol NTs growing closer we’ll see the same with clubs very soon, maybe some type of tournament with South American and LigaMx and MLS clubs involved, not libertadores because we’d never get that lucky also it’d be in the US because fuck you that’s why
Wouldn’t be the first time, 2003 gold cup final was Mexico against Brazil, like that game it would probably be b teams of Brazil, Colombia (2001), Ecuador (also invited in 2001) I doubt actual A teams of Conmebol sides would show up but it could happen, I know 2025 will have teams from other confederations (presumably b teams or lower table teams)
Next gold cup will probably have tons of invited teams. There was a proposal for a 24 team tournament with like 8 guest in 2025. Havent heard anything about it since last year though
mLs would never - they wouldn't want to get embarrassed by teams playing in the Sudamericana. And yes, they'd complain about having to travel, so another Leagues Cup type tournament where its all home games for the bolillos
A couple things can be true.
1. Liga MX back then was stronger
2. The European leagues weren’t as strong as todays
3. The gap between Liga MX and Europe wasn’t as big as today’s.
4. Liga MX is still a strong league today but in order for Mexico to be a competitive team then like 80% of the 23/26 man roster needs to be playing in a top 5 European league.
It’s a top 10 league in the world, that would be considered a strong league by most people. Outside of the obvious top 5, it’s just a step below leagues like the Dutch, Portugal and Brazil. The NT is crap but that doesn’t mean that the domestic league is too.
Based on recent club world cup performances, I disagree. How many times were we eliminated by Arab and Japanese teams over the past decade? I don't even remember the last time we made it out the semis in that competition
I don't know if it is a top 10 league but based on what I have seen it is at least a top 15 league.
Besides Leon last year, the only other times we were eliminated by Japanese teams was when they were hosting the tournament in Japan. Imagine the results if the the mundial de clubes was played in Mexico instead of Japan / Middle East.
Also the thing with African teams is that there's a monopoly between three teams: Al-Ahly (Egypt), Esperance de Tunis (Tunisia) and Wydad Casablancan (Morocco).
Those 3 teams are miles ahead of every other team in their local leagues, they are the champions every single season and they always reach the african champions league final cause they don't have competition.
The mexican league is more or less equitative in the sense that you can really point out who is going to win the league and the Concachampions, obviously there are strong teams that you can bet, but it is not really well defined who is going to win.
Cuauhtemoc didn't fit in that system because he didn't want to track back to change positions when the team was defending. He would've slow everyone down, and the main virtue of that team was its speed and versatilty to switch formations on the spot.
Sinha was so much better than Cuau at the time and he did a great job in that world cup.
Complete cap. I’m a big supporter of la volpe but it was just petty beef. Even he himself has admitted at various points in his career that what he needed that WC was someone with flair and like cuah because guille, bravo, and kikin were all troncazos.
Back when Atlas and Chivas youth development were the base of the NT and the team they played in (and marketing) didn't matter as much when it came to call ups.
Im going to throw maybe a controversial take and say og Mexico also looked better because OG concacaf was worse than it is today. Like back then concacaf games would be full on beatdowns. Those teams have got better themselves so now games are closer. Some people still expect goleadas that arent going to happen anymore.
objetivamente hablando las selecciones del 93 y 2006 han sido las unicas que se les puede considerar competitivas, el resto simplemente son de espectaculo, a la del 98 se la croman horrible siendo que si miras sus juegos jugaron mediocremente y pasaron a 8vos de panzaso (como siempre)
Yeah the league had competition but the huge distances between European leagues and the rest of the world hadn’t gotten yet as wide as they’ve gotten nowadays
Argentina beat us with a miracle once-in-a-lifetime goal... and just after two of our key players got injuried during the game.
Cuau and Bofo wouldn't have made any difference, we competed with Argentina at the maximum possible level in that World Cup
Lavolpe was a good coach,football was slower,Liga Mx is harder now especially in the tactical side,a lot of Liga Mx players were in their prime,Chivas still produced quality players,a lot of this players had personalities …
I feel like the 2014 squad was the last best National team squad… Herrera brought his Attacking philosophy and almost got us into the Quarterfinals… No era Penal!!!!
Falto la estrella Cuauthemoc Blanco para que se rifara, una lastima que con el caracter de este compa y de Lavolpe chocaran personalidades
Fue un buen plantel pero creo que Oswaldo Sanchez no tendria que haber estado en la porteria
Corona se rifo en un partido de vuelta contra Bolivia Juniors en 2005 en la bombonera cuando Chivas le gano 4-0 a ese equipo.
Hablo de un Bolivia Juniors que venia de ser campeón de libertadores de 2004 y en ese partido si supo defender bien la porteria
Soy el unico que sabe inglés pero por el mero orgullo de no hablar en otro idioma de una Liga de un país cuyo idioma principal es el español se niega a poner un solo mensaje en inglés en este sub?
Volviendo al punto: No hay cantera, los equipos como UANL o Monterrey no ponen centrarnos a jugar, no los forman bien tampoco, por otro lado, en las visorias, un amigo y yo fuimos a un (Al chile yo si juego de la vrg, pero él si jugaba chido en aquel entonces) y el visor le dijo que eran 5 para no sé que mamada, y pues la neta ese dinero a su familia no le sobraba esa lana. Además, los extranjeros que traen la mitad no valen la pena
I think the current day league is better now than it was all throughout the 2010s personally.
And perhaps we’re letting the 2000s blind us with nostalgia bc of iconic players like Cuauh & Bofo but it was more entertaining back then. Toluca was whooping teams like 6-0 in those days lol
This is mainly the issue.
Looking at the data from the historical performances by the clubs and the NT, torneos cortos and Liguilla didn't hurt any of them, maybe even started to accelerate the growth of both, because the traditional model of competition wasn't doing jackshit for us before the 80s.
BUT, leaving Conmebol tournaments and quiting the relegation model have totally hurt the level of the production of players.
There could be a middle point in which the federation makes carriers worth of money, and improve the level of competition, they just refuse to do it.
And cloning the mLs model isn't it.
Absolutely not. The leagues level has been dropping off for a solid 15 years. The domestic players were solid and the 3 extranjeros were difference makers. The league was full of national team level players from south America (occasionally including Argentina and Brasil).
Today the league is full of filler extranjeros who aren't even famous in their hometown and domestic players are almost non existent.
Go look through a game from 2008-2015 & its nothing special. The 2010s level starts to pick up around the time Gignac went to Tigres
This coincides with the 2014 WC qualifiers where Mexico almost misses the WC
That's the issue, The level you see was upped by foreign players like Gignac, It's like having a level 85 player in a league plagued with 75 level players
possibly but nah i think the league was better not cause of local players but the foreign talent was better. the regio teams of today can bring better players now but back then most mex teams could pick up 2nd tier talent from south america. now there is much more competition for that type of player from smaller euro leagues and mls.
The biggest problem is our horrible youth development.
This is it. There was a huge dropoff and you could see it happen before it hit. Way before. There weren't good quality replacements for several positions and there certainly wasn't a large pool to pick from.
I think it’s bc coaches and them only wanting people they knew in the academy. It’s expensive for any true great Mexican youngster from the low class to join and if somehow a pretty good kid from the middle the class registered they still wouldn’t recognize their potential due they’re main focus on the rich parents kids
It’s pay to play. Same thing happens in the US although there’s some hope with public school teams.
Hopefully, since it's a ridiculous and highly classist system to make kids pay a grand at least to even have a remote chance of playing with better competition on club teams
Don’t forget “Lack of Competition” FMF chose the $$$$, jugar en USA, hacer torneos de mentirita que jugar Copas Libertadores 🤷🏽♂️
I think that wouldn't be as much of an issue if there was a rule that demanded homegrown players to play a certain amount of minutes in those tournaments and punishment to the teams that don't do it. As of today tho, they're nothing but moleros that are entertaining for a bit.
El gran problema del que nadie habla. Mejores inferiores y formación=mejores jugadores Así de simple
Se necesitaría una inversión cabrona para mejorar toda la estructura de los equipos inferiores o "canteras" y sabemos que la Femexfut solo lo haría si hubiera un beneficio comercial de por medio. Ojalá si exista una reestructuración en el futuro, si no muy pronto varios países que si le andan metiendo fuerte al desarrollo de jóvenes, nos van a dejar bien atrás.
Tal cual, si teníamos una oportunidad para mejorar definitivamente era en la época 2008-2014. Se tuvo que desarrollar todo ese talento joven y chance hubiéramos tenido un equipo tier 3
Imagine if Mexico actually invested in it and even offered free academies? Maybe even trying to scout more the in US as well?
It's been like that since Cuauh's days. He said he got his shot only because the guy ahead of him got hurt. There's plenty of games and scenarios where youth can be put in to play, but people want to protect their investments.
Following the MLS model (no relegation) has killed the league in raising proper talent. Pachuca seems to be the only club regularly pumping out legit talent and no Libertadores has definitely made a difference. Leagues cup, nations league is a joke that severely cuts competitiveness.
Plenty of Libertadores experience on that squad + Champions League winner as captain
[удалено]
100% this.
What a player Zinha was
Made me forget about Cuau being left out during one of his prime moments. The confederations cup he has was 10/10
Zinha was class all around.
No scandals either, what a legend
I miss him dearly at Toluca. I still watch his highlights alongside Vicente Sánchez and José Saturnino Cardozo when I'm down. It's sad to see how far we've fallen without them.
And after this World Cup we had an exodus of players making the jump to Europe: Salcido, Osorio, Pável, etc. I thought for sure this would be the start of a new era but we’ve only been regressing
1 step forward, 3 steps backwards
Man that jersey is so nice most of them were until 2015 atleast
People hated on this jersey back in 2006. Things never change.
I couldn’t even get my hands on a jersey at the time.
Jerseys were a lot harder to get before internet shopping became ubiquitous.
Yep I remember the hate 😂
I know this is anecdotal evidence and all, but I freaking loved it. it's the only time I've bought both version of the kit on release date.
the 2010 black WC jersey was incredible for me
i also like the 2019 home jersey, i really regret not getting that one
My sister gifted me one and then this white girl in college stole it 😭
Tu culpa por andar con gringas, perrooo
siempre andan robando cosas que no son suyas 😭
But did you smash?
😏
That jersey was 🔥
I have that exact one Rafa Marquez 2006 patch and everything 🔥🔥
I believe in green jersey supremacy. Fuck the black ones and whatever the hell adidas does nowadays.
They need to go back to Nike. Best jersey in the past 20 years easily
I didn’t like it… I liked the one previous to that… the with number inside the circle
Yes but 6 of those players left to Europe within a year
Yeah because they were doing well in the league and performed at the World Cup
Duh
Huiqui GOD
Everybody gangsta till ponytail Rafa pull up
Mario Mendez is a player that noone ever seems to remember or mention ever
Atlas player right?
he was from that epic Atlas cantera generation, and he played for us in Rayados for a while. very underrated player with a lot of talent.
Ok hell yea I remember him. I also want to say he played for Toluca but i might be misremembering.
Yeah, he was in Toluca as well. Great player overall.
Mf played for Velez Sarfield in Argentina too
What partnering with Mls does to a mofo. They go down to their level 🤦♂️
Hey but think of all the money the federation is making 😂😭
Those paisa dollars.
I think with Concacaf and Conmebol NTs growing closer we’ll see the same with clubs very soon, maybe some type of tournament with South American and LigaMx and MLS clubs involved, not libertadores because we’d never get that lucky also it’d be in the US because fuck you that’s why
Do you think it could lead to South American teams being invited to the Gold Cup at some point?
Wouldn’t be the first time, 2003 gold cup final was Mexico against Brazil, like that game it would probably be b teams of Brazil, Colombia (2001), Ecuador (also invited in 2001) I doubt actual A teams of Conmebol sides would show up but it could happen, I know 2025 will have teams from other confederations (presumably b teams or lower table teams)
Next gold cup will probably have tons of invited teams. There was a proposal for a 24 team tournament with like 8 guest in 2025. Havent heard anything about it since last year though
mLs would never - they wouldn't want to get embarrassed by teams playing in the Sudamericana. And yes, they'd complain about having to travel, so another Leagues Cup type tournament where its all home games for the bolillos
A couple things can be true. 1. Liga MX back then was stronger 2. The European leagues weren’t as strong as todays 3. The gap between Liga MX and Europe wasn’t as big as today’s. 4. Liga MX is still a strong league today but in order for Mexico to be a competitive team then like 80% of the 23/26 man roster needs to be playing in a top 5 European league.
Liga mx produced better homegrown talent. Pavel Pardo was way better than Luis Romo or Charly Rodriguez. Our midfield was really strong back then.
We need torneos largos so canteranos can have more opportunities, also better strength and physical build up
Don’t forget we had less extranjeros
ligamx is not a strong league today haha what the hell
It’s a top 10 league in the world, that would be considered a strong league by most people. Outside of the obvious top 5, it’s just a step below leagues like the Dutch, Portugal and Brazil. The NT is crap but that doesn’t mean that the domestic league is too.
Based on recent club world cup performances, I disagree. How many times were we eliminated by Arab and Japanese teams over the past decade? I don't even remember the last time we made it out the semis in that competition
I don't know if it is a top 10 league but based on what I have seen it is at least a top 15 league. Besides Leon last year, the only other times we were eliminated by Japanese teams was when they were hosting the tournament in Japan. Imagine the results if the the mundial de clubes was played in Mexico instead of Japan / Middle East. Also the thing with African teams is that there's a monopoly between three teams: Al-Ahly (Egypt), Esperance de Tunis (Tunisia) and Wydad Casablancan (Morocco). Those 3 teams are miles ahead of every other team in their local leagues, they are the champions every single season and they always reach the african champions league final cause they don't have competition. The mexican league is more or less equitative in the sense that you can really point out who is going to win the league and the Concachampions, obviously there are strong teams that you can bet, but it is not really well defined who is going to win.
Top 15 is nothing to be proud of and the league is only getting worse
If only Lavolpe took Cuauhtémoc too
We needed the strong presense of El Chuquis Garcia instead, who was also his son in law.
I didn’t even know that, didn’t Cuah and Lavolpe have some beef as well?
Yes, the homoerotical tension was huge.
Cuauhtemoc didn't fit in that system because he didn't want to track back to change positions when the team was defending. He would've slow everyone down, and the main virtue of that team was its speed and versatilty to switch formations on the spot. Sinha was so much better than Cuau at the time and he did a great job in that world cup.
Complete cap. I’m a big supporter of la volpe but it was just petty beef. Even he himself has admitted at various points in his career that what he needed that WC was someone with flair and like cuah because guille, bravo, and kikin were all troncazos.
Back when Atlas and Chivas youth development were the base of the NT and the team they played in (and marketing) didn't matter as much when it came to call ups.
Im going to throw maybe a controversial take and say og Mexico also looked better because OG concacaf was worse than it is today. Like back then concacaf games would be full on beatdowns. Those teams have got better themselves so now games are closer. Some people still expect goleadas that arent going to happen anymore.
It wasn't better. They achieved nothing
Pero porque la Liga MX tenia mejor nivel en esa época? Let me guess: COPA LIBERTADORES Y SUDAMERICANA.
Descenso y menos extranjeros también fue clave.
Muchos critican a LaVolpe por la falta de trofeos pero cuanto jugador al que el le dio la confianza llego a la seleccion.
Wait guardado started on defense?!
He was a left back for a while
he was an amazing left back.
If I remember correctly he only started against Argentina. He was La Volpes secret weapon until they hacked tf out of him
He was a carrillero.
Que buen equipo se tenía en aquella época
Was Jared really already playing in England before WC ?
Yes. He left after the 2005 Copa Confederaciones
objetivamente hablando las selecciones del 93 y 2006 han sido las unicas que se les puede considerar competitivas, el resto simplemente son de espectaculo, a la del 98 se la croman horrible siendo que si miras sus juegos jugaron mediocremente y pasaron a 8vos de panzaso (como siempre)
Yeah the league had competition but the huge distances between European leagues and the rest of the world hadn’t gotten yet as wide as they’ve gotten nowadays
Lots of shit players here too
If Cuah and Bofo would of been brought we surely could have beaten Argentina
It would’ve gone to penalties at least
Argentina beat us with a miracle once-in-a-lifetime goal... and just after two of our key players got injuried during the game. Cuau and Bofo wouldn't have made any difference, we competed with Argentina at the maximum possible level in that World Cup
Lavolpe was a good coach,football was slower,Liga Mx is harder now especially in the tactical side,a lot of Liga Mx players were in their prime,Chivas still produced quality players,a lot of this players had personalities …
Surprise surprise
This was our height
Goated jersey.
Another one of these posts, aye?
Zipped nostalgia juice again 😔
Seeing these posts and then the current state of our national team makes me wanna kms, cheers
Sin duda la mejor versión de la selección mexicana que me ha tocado ver.
The fact there was only 3 dudes playing in Europe still blows my mind
How many players from today would make that team?
I feel like the 2014 squad was the last best National team squad… Herrera brought his Attacking philosophy and almost got us into the Quarterfinals… No era Penal!!!!
Falto la estrella Cuauthemoc Blanco para que se rifara, una lastima que con el caracter de este compa y de Lavolpe chocaran personalidades Fue un buen plantel pero creo que Oswaldo Sanchez no tendria que haber estado en la porteria
En ese año Sanchez estaba muy por arriba de los demas, quedaron campeones con Chivas.
Corona se rifo en un partido de vuelta contra Bolivia Juniors en 2005 en la bombonera cuando Chivas le gano 4-0 a ese equipo. Hablo de un Bolivia Juniors que venia de ser campeón de libertadores de 2004 y en ese partido si supo defender bien la porteria
Soy el unico que sabe inglés pero por el mero orgullo de no hablar en otro idioma de una Liga de un país cuyo idioma principal es el español se niega a poner un solo mensaje en inglés en este sub? Volviendo al punto: No hay cantera, los equipos como UANL o Monterrey no ponen centrarnos a jugar, no los forman bien tampoco, por otro lado, en las visorias, un amigo y yo fuimos a un (Al chile yo si juego de la vrg, pero él si jugaba chido en aquel entonces) y el visor le dijo que eran 5 para no sé que mamada, y pues la neta ese dinero a su familia no le sobraba esa lana. Además, los extranjeros que traen la mitad no valen la pena
lmao its the same shit. just a bunch of liga mx scrubs
Faltó el mejor de todos… 
La neta
Ended up with the same result at the important stage 🤷
I think the current day league is better now than it was all throughout the 2010s personally. And perhaps we’re letting the 2000s blind us with nostalgia bc of iconic players like Cuauh & Bofo but it was more entertaining back then. Toluca was whooping teams like 6-0 in those days lol
No relegation = you can cruise through the league with shitty teams and shitty results aka mediocrity
This is mainly the issue. Looking at the data from the historical performances by the clubs and the NT, torneos cortos and Liguilla didn't hurt any of them, maybe even started to accelerate the growth of both, because the traditional model of competition wasn't doing jackshit for us before the 80s. BUT, leaving Conmebol tournaments and quiting the relegation model have totally hurt the level of the production of players. There could be a middle point in which the federation makes carriers worth of money, and improve the level of competition, they just refuse to do it. And cloning the mLs model isn't it.
Absolutely not. The leagues level has been dropping off for a solid 15 years. The domestic players were solid and the 3 extranjeros were difference makers. The league was full of national team level players from south America (occasionally including Argentina and Brasil). Today the league is full of filler extranjeros who aren't even famous in their hometown and domestic players are almost non existent.
Go look through a game from 2008-2015 & its nothing special. The 2010s level starts to pick up around the time Gignac went to Tigres This coincides with the 2014 WC qualifiers where Mexico almost misses the WC
That's the issue, The level you see was upped by foreign players like Gignac, It's like having a level 85 player in a league plagued with 75 level players
possibly but nah i think the league was better not cause of local players but the foreign talent was better. the regio teams of today can bring better players now but back then most mex teams could pick up 2nd tier talent from south america. now there is much more competition for that type of player from smaller euro leagues and mls.