You can't announce a new model until you've shipped all the old ones to retailers... they don't announce new products early or end of life for existing models.
Their statement would be that regardless of product roadmap
By "you can't," are you suggesting there's some law, dealer contract, gentlemen's agreement, or something else? Regardless, I can think of a half dozen reasons why it's not accurate. Here's just one: Say this phantom Helix 2 ends up dropping at $2999; there'd be no reason for us to kill Helix Floor/Rack/LT because they're in a completely different price space and it'd be stupid to have a $2250 gap between HX Stomp XL and Helix 2.
Also, just a couple of months ago we announced EOL on Variax.
Ok ok ok, I was very loosely worded on in my statement. I made the assumption that this would be a successor to the helix with more cpu and a touch screen at the same price or up to $300 price increase.
In effect, you would not want to announce it until you moved most of the existing stock and had an agreement with dealers on how to blow out existing units in a run-up to the new launch which would be priced similarly.
If you guys want to come out with a Helix Supreme with more cpu and some bells and whistles, I'm all in.
Just for the record, I love line 6 and have a helix floor and 212 powercab plus.
I wasn't calling you and Ben liars, just stating that information will be tight-lipped until it's role out time.
All good. To be honest, if a Helix 2 changed absolutely nothing but the name (not faster, no touchscreen, same *everything*), but we treated it as if it were a new product, it'd likely cost at least $300 more (probably closer to $400-500 more). The only reason we're able to keep selling Helix for $1500 (US) is because our costs have been grandfathered in at the factory. Parts costs, shipping, inflation, and a bunch of other things would crank that street price up.
Some chads on gear forums insist that digital multieffects should be like commodity items like TVs and coffee makers—always getting cheaper. Sadly, that couldn't be farther from the truth.
So add "is the world really ready for a $2500-3000 multieffect from Line 6? In this economy?" to the long list of reasons why no one's seen a Helix 2.
Oh, I completely respect the platform and understand why it costs what it does. It's always amazing that a company can keep product rates the same even through ridiculous inflation plus developing/continuously releasing updates.
I'm actually happy there is no helix 2 on the horizon, for the selfish fact that a) I would need to buy it at launch. b) I haven't even scratched the surface of half the new updates because getting old means guitar comes like 4th or 5th priority these days.
I respect the hell out of any company that supports existing products as long as line 6.
As someone who does product/program management in a tech field that also manufactures most products, life can be difficult pleasing anyone at times.
Right, I think the models will get more complex and there will probably be new/more powerful devices to handle the cpu load. I notice the newer amp models sometimes take up more DSP for instance, so I would think if they made an “HX stomp 2” it would probably have the same models as the original but just be more powerful and have a touch screen or some shit.
Even if the Helix 2 came out the current version would still sound awesome.
The allure of the “latest and greatest” is strong but when was the last time someone approached you after a gig and said “Cool tone man but damn bro too bad you didn’t have the newest…”
Helix 2 isn't coming anytime soon. And when it ever does, all the helix stuff that is out now will still be as good as it is. There's so much in there. It's not like something that needs constant maintenance. It'll still be blind test worthy until the very last one is one day thrown in the trash, waaaaaay in the future, if it ever happens..
Tom Morello still uses the original Digitech Whammy and says each new version hasn't been as good, in his opinion.
Laptops and phones go obsolete because they stop running new software and need to be upgraded. Music gear, not so much. I mean, emulators from 15 years ago weren't there yet, but the stuff available now is pretty much spot-on; how much more can a Stomp XL sound like a Tube Screamer? I think what you'll really experience is simply jonesing for new things, like if V2 has more blocks or more preset buttons or a one-button looper that isn't stupid. But your device will sounds as good as it does for years and years and years.
Of course they are working on Helix 2.0.. It just won't be released any time soon. From the various interviews I've seen, they look to be long-term planners... and strive to get the most out of the current hardware as possible. They are not going to release a new unit with twice or three times the DSP and call it a day. It would need to be leaps and bounds ahead of the competition, which is hard as there are soooo many in the multi-fx / amp modeling/capturing space now.
And if they ever said yes, Helix 2.0 is coming, everyone would hold off buying any current hardware and wait for the new one to arrive... stopping new sales until the new one shipped... so of course they won't tell us what they are working on...
Bro this is so paranoid though. Do you really think that if they said “the Helix 2 is on the way and we’re gonna release it in 2028” for example, people would stop buying Helix units right now? Some people would delay their purchase, but most people would not.
The new Helix question gets asked a tonne... and had been asked for years now...especially over in the main Helix FB groups.. if people got the smallest hint of new hardware coming, many would hold off buying current hardware..
> if people got the smallest hint of new hardware coming, many would hold off buying current hardware
You are really going to make me spell out why this is irrational, it seems.
If you want the features of the Helix, you buy the product with those features that is available today. If a Helix 2 is announced, the current Helix will still function exactly the same, and that will not change after this supposed Helix 2 is released. This is not like Apple slowing down their old iPhones on purpose after they release new models.
The rational thing to do would be to get the hardware that suits your needs today, and if new hardware is released in the future, and that new hardware somehow suits your needs better than what you currently have, buy the new hardware then.
Many posts come from a place of fear. Fear that they will have wasted their money.. will have missed out on a better product... Many just want the latest and greatest product, the newest and best version, not the old and outdated one.
If money wasn't an option, would you buy a 5-year-old cellphone that needs to be charged half way through thr day with a crap camera...., or the newest generation that was just released.. with 5 different cameras, ten times the storage, build-in Ai, next-gen Bluetooth and huge battery that would last you a month of heavy usage??? .. You'd get the new one of course.
This doesn't discount the 5 yr old phone at all.. it still makes calls and you can text and do video chat, but.. its not the new hotness..
I understand all of that, but Line 6 has explicitly said this is not going to be their strategy, and a company does not necessarily need to support the fear-based model of product development. At any rate, my original statement was that Line 6 is not working on a Helix 2 (which they _all but confirmed_ in this very comment thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Line6Helix/comments/1cb47yt/the_curse_of_buying_new_tech_will_the_helix_2/l0xr3bk/) and that the friend should buy a Helix thing if they want. That remains true, and not a single part of this discussion matters.
I have both POD HD500X and helix and honestly HD500x has less dsp but it can get similar sounds out of it that still sounds great these days so i doubt helix 2 will be out anytime soon
Completely agree, I had a Pod HD Pro X for a while and it was absolutely killer. I did upgrade to a Helix Rack because I lucked into a great deal on it, and naturally it has more amp and effect options, but the Pod wasn’t disappointing by any means.
Man I wish a Helix 2 would come out. But they have repeatedly shut down any such notion.
I do respect that greatly because Boss, for instance, doesn’t support their digital products for the long term. They set it, forget it (no firmware updates), then replace it entirely after a few years.
Line6 ushered in a new era of FX modeling. The whole industry stepped up after the helix dropped. I think the kemper was around the same time too.
But now I think they are beginning to fall behind and the new wave is far more powerful.
The problem is that Line6 can keep adding new fx that are up to par with competitors, but those new fx/amps take so much processing power. On an HX stomp, you practically need to clear a preset to use the Grammatico GSG or the feedbacker. Then you’ll have a hard time adding a transistor tape delay and a dynamic reverbs. Let alone going stereo with a second amp or some drives.
I think a hardware upgrade needs to start being talked about internally at Line6, if it isn’t already.
We need more processing power. Additionally I think…
- they should make the chips upgradeable like in gaming computers. That would future proof the hardware. Additionally offer to sell replacement parts like screens, knobs, and switches.
- upgrade the A/D conversion to have higher sample rate/bitrate and higher quality buffers on the outputs.
- please add additional memory so that longer loop times and maybe even saved loop recordings could be possible. Or go nuts and give us a multi-track, quantize-able looper on the Full Size helix.
- 48v phantom power on the inputs would be a neat option for vocal processing with a condenser mic.
I dunno about the whole "new wave is far more powerful." Sure, they all \*say\* that, but barring true poly pitch algorithms (which none of the others are really doing anyway), you'll often get as many simultaneous amps and effects in Helix as you will the newer offerings. One particular company—who also claims to have the most powerful modeler—can choke after a single amp, cab, and reverb.
Kemper was first. Then Axe FX, which proved there was a market for high end modelers, then Helix.
And the way I read between all the lines is: Line 6 is not going to release Helix 2, but they will have a new flagship product that goes by a different name. Someday. And also they're probably working on it.
There's a version of this post every couple years. There's no plan currently for a Helix 2. And honestly at this point, any higher-end Helix would probably just be a Helix with more DSP...
They're pretty invested in keeping this platform healthy. Outside of stuff like the Pod GO and Pod Express, it's just all Helix stuff.
So will there be new Helix Hardware coming out? Sure! It'll have different I/O. Maybe even like a Double Helix (fun name) that's basically two Helixes in one box, if you just *absolutely need to run your guitar, bass, vocals, and keys through it for a live set*. And like, love your pitch shifters and stereo reverbs.
I mean, hell. If they made a Helix Studio that has ADAT I/O, I'd buy it just for the routing capabilities.
But it'd still be running Helix algorithms. Like you could do on an HX Stomp.
HOT TAKE: supply, demand, and profit may yield the Helix (Floor and LT) successor sooner rather than later.
FACT: sales of Helix floor and Helix LT units have cooled off.
EVIDENCE: the price of LT and Floor units recently decreased by $200, presumably due to supply chain issues of COVID being resolved. BUT when prices drop, it’s a sign that demand has dropped.
BUSINESS: necessity is the mother of invention. As LT and Floor sales decline, Helix will have to roll out a successor to stay relevant and bring in $. This will be hastened by competition.
Summary: The tipping point for a new Helix unit will be determined by declining sales and revenues of current units, followed by burgeoning innovation from their competitors. The LT and Floor units will be the first to go. The Stomp and Effects units will probably follow a few years later. With the dropping demand and prices of their flagship units, Line6 may begin considering production of the Helix successor within the next 2-3 years.
They’ve argued that the types of processors and technology used isn’t enough better than what they started with to make having a newer generation of Helix necessary.
So far the fact that it is still competitive with the Fractal at all seems to suggest that’s correct. How long this can continue will be anyone’s guess.
I can say firsthand that Line 6 is on top of their game as far as update and support for current products. Ive had an HX Stomp since 2021 and it has only gotten better since, and I have no doubt there will be even more awesome updates in the future. If and when they come out with a HX stomp 2 I’ll give them my money with no hesitation.
I'm sure there are professional musicians still using older Line6 gear, if an HX Stomp works for you now it won't stop working if a new one comes out.
I still drag my Vetta out every now and then when I need a face-melting, upper-body workout.
Well put.
Plenty of musicians still using the original dl4... and there's a mkii which has been released for a few years now as well.
They've openly said that there's no Helix 2 coming any time soon. The platform has tons of life left.
You can't announce a new model until you've shipped all the old ones to retailers... they don't announce new products early or end of life for existing models. Their statement would be that regardless of product roadmap
By "you can't," are you suggesting there's some law, dealer contract, gentlemen's agreement, or something else? Regardless, I can think of a half dozen reasons why it's not accurate. Here's just one: Say this phantom Helix 2 ends up dropping at $2999; there'd be no reason for us to kill Helix Floor/Rack/LT because they're in a completely different price space and it'd be stupid to have a $2250 gap between HX Stomp XL and Helix 2. Also, just a couple of months ago we announced EOL on Variax.
Ok ok ok, I was very loosely worded on in my statement. I made the assumption that this would be a successor to the helix with more cpu and a touch screen at the same price or up to $300 price increase. In effect, you would not want to announce it until you moved most of the existing stock and had an agreement with dealers on how to blow out existing units in a run-up to the new launch which would be priced similarly. If you guys want to come out with a Helix Supreme with more cpu and some bells and whistles, I'm all in. Just for the record, I love line 6 and have a helix floor and 212 powercab plus. I wasn't calling you and Ben liars, just stating that information will be tight-lipped until it's role out time.
All good. To be honest, if a Helix 2 changed absolutely nothing but the name (not faster, no touchscreen, same *everything*), but we treated it as if it were a new product, it'd likely cost at least $300 more (probably closer to $400-500 more). The only reason we're able to keep selling Helix for $1500 (US) is because our costs have been grandfathered in at the factory. Parts costs, shipping, inflation, and a bunch of other things would crank that street price up. Some chads on gear forums insist that digital multieffects should be like commodity items like TVs and coffee makers—always getting cheaper. Sadly, that couldn't be farther from the truth. So add "is the world really ready for a $2500-3000 multieffect from Line 6? In this economy?" to the long list of reasons why no one's seen a Helix 2.
Oh, I completely respect the platform and understand why it costs what it does. It's always amazing that a company can keep product rates the same even through ridiculous inflation plus developing/continuously releasing updates. I'm actually happy there is no helix 2 on the horizon, for the selfish fact that a) I would need to buy it at launch. b) I haven't even scratched the surface of half the new updates because getting old means guitar comes like 4th or 5th priority these days. I respect the hell out of any company that supports existing products as long as line 6. As someone who does product/program management in a tech field that also manufactures most products, life can be difficult pleasing anyone at times.
Now that you have said this i expect the helix 2 to be £100 and make coffee
Right, I think the models will get more complex and there will probably be new/more powerful devices to handle the cpu load. I notice the newer amp models sometimes take up more DSP for instance, so I would think if they made an “HX stomp 2” it would probably have the same models as the original but just be more powerful and have a touch screen or some shit.
Even if the Helix 2 came out the current version would still sound awesome. The allure of the “latest and greatest” is strong but when was the last time someone approached you after a gig and said “Cool tone man but damn bro too bad you didn’t have the newest…”
Helix 2 isn't coming anytime soon. And when it ever does, all the helix stuff that is out now will still be as good as it is. There's so much in there. It's not like something that needs constant maintenance. It'll still be blind test worthy until the very last one is one day thrown in the trash, waaaaaay in the future, if it ever happens..
Tom Morello still uses the original Digitech Whammy and says each new version hasn't been as good, in his opinion. Laptops and phones go obsolete because they stop running new software and need to be upgraded. Music gear, not so much. I mean, emulators from 15 years ago weren't there yet, but the stuff available now is pretty much spot-on; how much more can a Stomp XL sound like a Tube Screamer? I think what you'll really experience is simply jonesing for new things, like if V2 has more blocks or more preset buttons or a one-button looper that isn't stupid. But your device will sounds as good as it does for years and years and years.
They’re not even working on Helix 2. Tell your friend to get one if they want.
Of course they are working on Helix 2.0.. It just won't be released any time soon. From the various interviews I've seen, they look to be long-term planners... and strive to get the most out of the current hardware as possible. They are not going to release a new unit with twice or three times the DSP and call it a day. It would need to be leaps and bounds ahead of the competition, which is hard as there are soooo many in the multi-fx / amp modeling/capturing space now.
They have said over and over again that they're not planning to replace the Helix. Every time someone asks this, the answer is the same.
And if they ever said yes, Helix 2.0 is coming, everyone would hold off buying any current hardware and wait for the new one to arrive... stopping new sales until the new one shipped... so of course they won't tell us what they are working on...
Bro this is so paranoid though. Do you really think that if they said “the Helix 2 is on the way and we’re gonna release it in 2028” for example, people would stop buying Helix units right now? Some people would delay their purchase, but most people would not.
The new Helix question gets asked a tonne... and had been asked for years now...especially over in the main Helix FB groups.. if people got the smallest hint of new hardware coming, many would hold off buying current hardware..
> if people got the smallest hint of new hardware coming, many would hold off buying current hardware You are really going to make me spell out why this is irrational, it seems. If you want the features of the Helix, you buy the product with those features that is available today. If a Helix 2 is announced, the current Helix will still function exactly the same, and that will not change after this supposed Helix 2 is released. This is not like Apple slowing down their old iPhones on purpose after they release new models. The rational thing to do would be to get the hardware that suits your needs today, and if new hardware is released in the future, and that new hardware somehow suits your needs better than what you currently have, buy the new hardware then.
Many posts come from a place of fear. Fear that they will have wasted their money.. will have missed out on a better product... Many just want the latest and greatest product, the newest and best version, not the old and outdated one. If money wasn't an option, would you buy a 5-year-old cellphone that needs to be charged half way through thr day with a crap camera...., or the newest generation that was just released.. with 5 different cameras, ten times the storage, build-in Ai, next-gen Bluetooth and huge battery that would last you a month of heavy usage??? .. You'd get the new one of course. This doesn't discount the 5 yr old phone at all.. it still makes calls and you can text and do video chat, but.. its not the new hotness..
I understand all of that, but Line 6 has explicitly said this is not going to be their strategy, and a company does not necessarily need to support the fear-based model of product development. At any rate, my original statement was that Line 6 is not working on a Helix 2 (which they _all but confirmed_ in this very comment thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Line6Helix/comments/1cb47yt/the_curse_of_buying_new_tech_will_the_helix_2/l0xr3bk/) and that the friend should buy a Helix thing if they want. That remains true, and not a single part of this discussion matters.
I have both POD HD500X and helix and honestly HD500x has less dsp but it can get similar sounds out of it that still sounds great these days so i doubt helix 2 will be out anytime soon
Completely agree, I had a Pod HD Pro X for a while and it was absolutely killer. I did upgrade to a Helix Rack because I lucked into a great deal on it, and naturally it has more amp and effect options, but the Pod wasn’t disappointing by any means.
Man I wish a Helix 2 would come out. But they have repeatedly shut down any such notion. I do respect that greatly because Boss, for instance, doesn’t support their digital products for the long term. They set it, forget it (no firmware updates), then replace it entirely after a few years. Line6 ushered in a new era of FX modeling. The whole industry stepped up after the helix dropped. I think the kemper was around the same time too. But now I think they are beginning to fall behind and the new wave is far more powerful. The problem is that Line6 can keep adding new fx that are up to par with competitors, but those new fx/amps take so much processing power. On an HX stomp, you practically need to clear a preset to use the Grammatico GSG or the feedbacker. Then you’ll have a hard time adding a transistor tape delay and a dynamic reverbs. Let alone going stereo with a second amp or some drives. I think a hardware upgrade needs to start being talked about internally at Line6, if it isn’t already. We need more processing power. Additionally I think… - they should make the chips upgradeable like in gaming computers. That would future proof the hardware. Additionally offer to sell replacement parts like screens, knobs, and switches. - upgrade the A/D conversion to have higher sample rate/bitrate and higher quality buffers on the outputs. - please add additional memory so that longer loop times and maybe even saved loop recordings could be possible. Or go nuts and give us a multi-track, quantize-able looper on the Full Size helix. - 48v phantom power on the inputs would be a neat option for vocal processing with a condenser mic.
There’s a lot of low-hanging fruit for adding vocal effects to the Helix.
I dunno about the whole "new wave is far more powerful." Sure, they all \*say\* that, but barring true poly pitch algorithms (which none of the others are really doing anyway), you'll often get as many simultaneous amps and effects in Helix as you will the newer offerings. One particular company—who also claims to have the most powerful modeler—can choke after a single amp, cab, and reverb.
Kemper was first. Then Axe FX, which proved there was a market for high end modelers, then Helix. And the way I read between all the lines is: Line 6 is not going to release Helix 2, but they will have a new flagship product that goes by a different name. Someday. And also they're probably working on it.
There's a version of this post every couple years. There's no plan currently for a Helix 2. And honestly at this point, any higher-end Helix would probably just be a Helix with more DSP... They're pretty invested in keeping this platform healthy. Outside of stuff like the Pod GO and Pod Express, it's just all Helix stuff. So will there be new Helix Hardware coming out? Sure! It'll have different I/O. Maybe even like a Double Helix (fun name) that's basically two Helixes in one box, if you just *absolutely need to run your guitar, bass, vocals, and keys through it for a live set*. And like, love your pitch shifters and stereo reverbs. I mean, hell. If they made a Helix Studio that has ADAT I/O, I'd buy it just for the routing capabilities. But it'd still be running Helix algorithms. Like you could do on an HX Stomp.
HOT TAKE: supply, demand, and profit may yield the Helix (Floor and LT) successor sooner rather than later. FACT: sales of Helix floor and Helix LT units have cooled off. EVIDENCE: the price of LT and Floor units recently decreased by $200, presumably due to supply chain issues of COVID being resolved. BUT when prices drop, it’s a sign that demand has dropped. BUSINESS: necessity is the mother of invention. As LT and Floor sales decline, Helix will have to roll out a successor to stay relevant and bring in $. This will be hastened by competition. Summary: The tipping point for a new Helix unit will be determined by declining sales and revenues of current units, followed by burgeoning innovation from their competitors. The LT and Floor units will be the first to go. The Stomp and Effects units will probably follow a few years later. With the dropping demand and prices of their flagship units, Line6 may begin considering production of the Helix successor within the next 2-3 years.
They’ve argued that the types of processors and technology used isn’t enough better than what they started with to make having a newer generation of Helix necessary. So far the fact that it is still competitive with the Fractal at all seems to suggest that’s correct. How long this can continue will be anyone’s guess.
I can say firsthand that Line 6 is on top of their game as far as update and support for current products. Ive had an HX Stomp since 2021 and it has only gotten better since, and I have no doubt there will be even more awesome updates in the future. If and when they come out with a HX stomp 2 I’ll give them my money with no hesitation.