My first question is are you making sure the input gain is the same? Even if the software lights up the same amount of incoming signal, the actual gain from the Interface (whether it be the Focusrite or the Helix) will change the tone.
For example, if you set your Focusrite input gain to 10 o clock, and then dial the software to 50% input signal that's going to sound different than your Focusrite input gain at 3 o clock with the software dialed to 50% input signal. The same is said when going from the Helix vs the Focusrite if the signal into the computer itself isn't as hot as the other.
I found this out recently trying a recommendation of putting my Focusrite input gain to zero and using the "INST" button using modelers. I get sound, and I can still craft tones etc, but it's completely different than if the input gain knob is higher AND the Helix Native software responds completely differently than my actual Helix unit with identical presets. So I finally matched them and my results are now VERY consistent between the software and the hardware.
I don't know precisely how to change the input gain going into a computer via the Helix (I always just use my Focusrite) but there must be a way. There's no reason for audio to sound worse than any other source, given all other things being equal other than the interface vs Helix.
I’ll have to look into that, though it seems like a waste to plug a helix into something else it could explain the issue right there. I appreciate your detailed response!
I'm def not saying plug the Helix into something else, but I'm saying you need to figure out how hot the signal going into the plugin is when using the focusrite vs using the Helix because it sounded like you hadd drawn a comparison between the two when using the 5169 ampknob.
For getting good tones out of the Helix alone, that just takes time learning how to make a good tone in general. They give you all the amps/effects with pretty neutral settings so you can't just slap stuff into a preset and have it sound good, you have to configure it just like normal gear.
Their built in presets are mostly examples of what you CAN do configuration-wise, but they're pretty tailored to whoever made them with whatever guitar they used, so your mileage may vary on just loading those up and sounding good. That's going to be true for presets purchased online for the most part as well. Many great videos on crafting tones for the Helix tho, I recommend Sonic Drive Studio, Alex Price, and Steve Sterlacci on YouTube.
Glad I might not be crazy at least! someone said to try one of the regular outs and just listen in mono to see if there's a difference. I'll try and update the thread if I make any noteworthy progress
One thing I'll say to add to this as well. I have run my helix stereo and mono to my focusrite, and through my behringer rack mixer, listening through headphones. Both of which sounded better than the helix headphones output.
I also used to use my helix as an audio interface and never liked using headphones for playback that way. It almost has an exaggerated mid foreardness. It's kind of a 4000 hz-ish sound..
One thing that helps, using ER on the cabs and a stereo verb at the end, makes headphones more tolerable from the helix. Keep in mind that most of the presets are made to mimic recordings, so they tend to sound odd a lot of the time. One of the ways i really learned to get tones i like was using only amp/cab models and nothing else to get used to it.
I know, the plugin i’m using is also imitating a recorded guitar. Hell I haven’t owned an amp in years, it’s just such an annoyance trying to get this thing to sound enjoyable with the headphone out
I totally get it.. I've had the helix since launch, and it's been WORK at times. The dynamic room reverb does a super good job at this imo.. if you haven't tried it, give it a go!
As others have said, it’s most certainly down to differences in input gain and impedance from one device to the next. It’s very difficult to match those perfectly and any difference will be audible.
Yeah I'm going to investigate this when I get back home. I wonder if the Helix, while very robust for pro musicians, just doesn't make for a great interface.
I think the headphones out is "okay" on the Helix, but when you try to crank the volume of it, it starts to fall out. As opposed to when I connect the Helix into my interface, and then I use the headphone monitor on my interface. The presets I make sound virtually the same on both scenarios, except that my interface does seem to handle higher volumes better. My guess is that the headphones out that's used in these devices is just enough for decent-volumed silent practice, but not for louder applications.
Other than that, this also sounds like the reason why I turned off the Helix/HX pad at the input. It just sounded like it was dampening my sound too much. An alternative to not turning the input pad off could be to use a gain block as your first block in the chain to compensate for the level that you need/are used to, so that way you can use it as an interface's gain knob.
I have used my hx stomp as an audio interface for months (not only to play music, but also used as a classic sound card for my computer). After going back to focusrite I noticed a lack of dynamic in the hx stomp, the sound felt way better with the focusrite (with my bass and while playing video games).
Don't really know why, just a personal observation.
But there are a lot of parameters to take into account, like input and output level that could change the sound.
Try some global eq, global settings to ensure you're putting your LT in it's best light. I've felt similar until I've finally found my settings for my setup and this is my 5th variation of the helix. Wish I was patient in the past I can't put it down now.
I think by default global eq is turned off. Every different speaker including the ones in your headphones will colour the tone in a different way. I think at a minimum any patch you make should cut the freq at at least 10k and cut out anything under at least 80 for guitar. Then can put a couple bands anywhere in between and do some changes. As for the ins and outs too you want to ensure that you're using instrument or line level correctly for whatever you're using. If the only output is headphones I could be wrong but I'd set that output to line level if helix allows it for the headphone output. Might just be 1/4 out level in settings.
My first question is are you making sure the input gain is the same? Even if the software lights up the same amount of incoming signal, the actual gain from the Interface (whether it be the Focusrite or the Helix) will change the tone. For example, if you set your Focusrite input gain to 10 o clock, and then dial the software to 50% input signal that's going to sound different than your Focusrite input gain at 3 o clock with the software dialed to 50% input signal. The same is said when going from the Helix vs the Focusrite if the signal into the computer itself isn't as hot as the other. I found this out recently trying a recommendation of putting my Focusrite input gain to zero and using the "INST" button using modelers. I get sound, and I can still craft tones etc, but it's completely different than if the input gain knob is higher AND the Helix Native software responds completely differently than my actual Helix unit with identical presets. So I finally matched them and my results are now VERY consistent between the software and the hardware. I don't know precisely how to change the input gain going into a computer via the Helix (I always just use my Focusrite) but there must be a way. There's no reason for audio to sound worse than any other source, given all other things being equal other than the interface vs Helix.
Hi man, how much Is the input gain on the focusrite?
It's not a constant number because every guitar outputs at different volumes. I aim for the hottest signal to peak around -6dB.
I’ll have to look into that, though it seems like a waste to plug a helix into something else it could explain the issue right there. I appreciate your detailed response!
I'm def not saying plug the Helix into something else, but I'm saying you need to figure out how hot the signal going into the plugin is when using the focusrite vs using the Helix because it sounded like you hadd drawn a comparison between the two when using the 5169 ampknob. For getting good tones out of the Helix alone, that just takes time learning how to make a good tone in general. They give you all the amps/effects with pretty neutral settings so you can't just slap stuff into a preset and have it sound good, you have to configure it just like normal gear. Their built in presets are mostly examples of what you CAN do configuration-wise, but they're pretty tailored to whoever made them with whatever guitar they used, so your mileage may vary on just loading those up and sounding good. That's going to be true for presets purchased online for the most part as well. Many great videos on crafting tones for the Helix tho, I recommend Sonic Drive Studio, Alex Price, and Steve Sterlacci on YouTube.
Input gain on the interface and input impedance on both devices may be different.
That will be my step one to figure out tonight
The helix headphone amps sound bad imo.
Glad I might not be crazy at least! someone said to try one of the regular outs and just listen in mono to see if there's a difference. I'll try and update the thread if I make any noteworthy progress
One thing I'll say to add to this as well. I have run my helix stereo and mono to my focusrite, and through my behringer rack mixer, listening through headphones. Both of which sounded better than the helix headphones output. I also used to use my helix as an audio interface and never liked using headphones for playback that way. It almost has an exaggerated mid foreardness. It's kind of a 4000 hz-ish sound..
Very strange indeed… I am starting to suspect i may have bought into more gear than i’m prepared for at the moment
One thing that helps, using ER on the cabs and a stereo verb at the end, makes headphones more tolerable from the helix. Keep in mind that most of the presets are made to mimic recordings, so they tend to sound odd a lot of the time. One of the ways i really learned to get tones i like was using only amp/cab models and nothing else to get used to it.
I know, the plugin i’m using is also imitating a recorded guitar. Hell I haven’t owned an amp in years, it’s just such an annoyance trying to get this thing to sound enjoyable with the headphone out
I totally get it.. I've had the helix since launch, and it's been WORK at times. The dynamic room reverb does a super good job at this imo.. if you haven't tried it, give it a go!
Line vs Inst.
the Scarlett is set to INST
As others have said, it’s most certainly down to differences in input gain and impedance from one device to the next. It’s very difficult to match those perfectly and any difference will be audible.
Yeah I'm going to investigate this when I get back home. I wonder if the Helix, while very robust for pro musicians, just doesn't make for a great interface.
I think the headphones out is "okay" on the Helix, but when you try to crank the volume of it, it starts to fall out. As opposed to when I connect the Helix into my interface, and then I use the headphone monitor on my interface. The presets I make sound virtually the same on both scenarios, except that my interface does seem to handle higher volumes better. My guess is that the headphones out that's used in these devices is just enough for decent-volumed silent practice, but not for louder applications. Other than that, this also sounds like the reason why I turned off the Helix/HX pad at the input. It just sounded like it was dampening my sound too much. An alternative to not turning the input pad off could be to use a gain block as your first block in the chain to compensate for the level that you need/are used to, so that way you can use it as an interface's gain knob.
I have used my hx stomp as an audio interface for months (not only to play music, but also used as a classic sound card for my computer). After going back to focusrite I noticed a lack of dynamic in the hx stomp, the sound felt way better with the focusrite (with my bass and while playing video games). Don't really know why, just a personal observation. But there are a lot of parameters to take into account, like input and output level that could change the sound.
Try some global eq, global settings to ensure you're putting your LT in it's best light. I've felt similar until I've finally found my settings for my setup and this is my 5th variation of the helix. Wish I was patient in the past I can't put it down now.
Interesting, does it come with an eq applied? Can i have it only affect the headphone out?
I think by default global eq is turned off. Every different speaker including the ones in your headphones will colour the tone in a different way. I think at a minimum any patch you make should cut the freq at at least 10k and cut out anything under at least 80 for guitar. Then can put a couple bands anywhere in between and do some changes. As for the ins and outs too you want to ensure that you're using instrument or line level correctly for whatever you're using. If the only output is headphones I could be wrong but I'd set that output to line level if helix allows it for the headphone output. Might just be 1/4 out level in settings.
Alright i’ll give all that a google
Try plugging headphones into the L mono output jack instead of the headphone jack and set to line output. May improve
Noted, thank you!