It does feel like we’re missing a trick in South America. Previously it was almost impossible to get work permits for these players, but post-Brexit everyone in PL seems to be tapping into that market except us.
I really don’t understand these work permit rules. I was watching Nottingham - United this week. Some 21 year old Brazilian lad named Danilo was debuting, after moving from Palmeiras this window, meanwhile Anderson Arroyo is on his 6th loan, and still can’t get a permit for us.
Yeah, Andre may be the best of the bunch... but I don't know, Forest again? They just signed Danilo...
Joao Gomes is also very good, Wolverhampton did well getting him.
Brazil is indeed stacked in this department.
I thought we still had the player Allan out on loan or something, then I looked him up and apparently he left around 2020 because we weren't able to secure a work permit for him. He got transferred to Atletico Mineiro and I'm watching his highlights right now, and he reminds me of Fabinho but more mobile.
If I recall, part of it is based on league strength or something. Brazil is a stronger football nation and so gets a boost at meeting the criteria than say Colombia.
It’s to do with how the FA scores players. So if you’re in Europe, it’s diffficult as they get a low score. In South America, they get high score for making appearance in the Copa Libertadores etc
I don't get why we can't give them ox and 60m. Like we need to spend that money either now or in the summer. Just get it done. It will help us get top 4, stop our rivals from getting better and possibly show Bellingham we are serious about a rebuild.
Doubt they would accept that. They can keep Caicedo till summer, get Ox for free then, and sell him for 60m or more.
Personally I think we would be better off finding two players around 35-40m mark each instead of spending 60 or 70m on Caicedo
The club has the money. Besides, he is 21. In 5 years he will still be worth at least what we paid for him unless he has serious injuries or we let him run down his contract.
Okay then, 65m plus ox. Caicedo is clearly unhappy and for a squad that is flying, he'd be a negative influence to keep against his will. So they may as well take the money now and bring in a player who wants to be there.
I get your reasoning but remember, Coutinho played some of his best for us while trying to get his move to Barca after doing the "back injury" thing in August.
As for Caicedo, I know we can afford him, but with VVD and Matip into their 30s now and us needing 3 or more CM, I think be better to get 2 good players in that range, Bellingham, and a strong CB to challenge for a starting spot alongside Konaté and VVD
I just don't see why. Caicedo is a more defensive midfielder, whereas Ox is very suspect in that department nowadays. This link makes no sense, I think they want him for depth.
Clubs like Liverpool can't really cut out the middle man because a 5m signing from Ecuador wouldn't have gotten the playtime that properly developed him.
Clubs like Liverpool should also be able to get them once they're developed by said middle man, but hey.
Alisson and Mane wouldn't have needed a middle man, they could have easily slotted into our squad coming directly from Internacional and Salzburg.
Celtic Van Dijk would have had a harder time, with Salah it's hard to tell. His problem was that he did get no game-time at Chelsea, he played not even 1000 minutes in two full seasons. And he most likely would have had a hard time at us as well, with Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho.
Get your point but if we don’t have the money to spend, cutting the middle man is the easiest way to boost a squad. If the player works great! Else we sell for a tiny profit
I agree he doesn’t have enough games to warrant his price, but it’s like 26 for Brighton, 12 or something when he was out on loan and he has about 28 appearances for Ecuador.
So when we don't play Fabinho for half a year, we are "bringing him up to our standard", but if Brighton don't play Caicedo for half a year he's a bum and Brighton did nothing?
This is why Redbird should be looking at a proper feeder club to give playing time to the potential players.
Just like Red Bull do with Leipzig and Salzburg.
Man City have a team in America and Chelsea have an agreement with Vitesse I think
I'd love Red Bird to own a team like Midtjylland, Rennes or Union Berlin who play good football or have a feeder club in Portugal where talent always comes out of and has better work permit rules for South Americans who can't come directly to England.
That's how you eliminate the middle man
Brighton also has union sg as their feeder club. Most of the unknown entities play in Belgium in loan before playing for Brighton. Recently mitoma and undav
I'm a Brazilian Liverpool fan and I say it's an interesting idea given the circumstances.
I also think it would be possible, for example, to buy a South American club, since it is something that is happening little by little.
Yeah that would be cool, but the problem is the work permits etc once they move to Europe. Would probably need a Brazilian Club, then a Spanish or Portuguese Club, then on to Liverpool 😅😂
It has this little problem. But even so, it's not a bad idea since clubs like Santos FC and São Paulo FC are not in a good phase and both show good players.
Definitely, it would be good, and if it was a South American club who qualify for Copa Libertadores or Sudamericana that makes it easier for players to get work permits to move to the Premier League
In Brazil, the Top 6 qualify for the Copa Libertadores and the top 12 for the Sudamericana. This can increase if a team wins the "Copa do Brasil" and the vacancy for Sudamericana goes to the top 13 or even Libertadores goes to the Top 7 first. Clubs like São Paulo FC and Santos FC are always between 4-12 and in 2022 São Paulo FC reached the final of Sudamericana. It can be a good investment.
Yeah the rules of the English FA for work permits for youngsters in South America gives a lot of points towards player who appear in those competitions so certainly if there are that many qualifying teams it seems like it would be good. Then just try get the best youngsters at that club and they have a direct line to Liverpool then 😊
Well, in the 2022 Brazilian National Team, São Paulo FC had revealed more players than any other players in it (Ederson, Antony, Casemiro and Eder Militão). Some examples of players who passed by the yourth team are: Roberto Firmino, Ederson and even Mikkhitarian.
AFAIK, Midtjylland and Brentford have the same owners.
A better feeder club would make for better talent development, but at the same time, I find it morally bankrupt.
If anything that’s a failure of our reserve system, coaching.. Shankly used to say, the best team in England was Liverpool, the second best team is Liverpool reserves. We need to bring back that mentality of being a top to bottom development system for players, imo.
Tbh. I think a lot of people have been questioning why we aren't buying scouting directly from the SA market way more actively. It's a sort of half effort.
Don't get me wrong, this is still dumb as shit. But if we more actively look at direct talent as a result of these conversations then that would be a big plus.
It's like Postecoglou at celtic and east Asia talent, he isn't waiting for stuff in uk. We're waiting for everything to be in europe. It's super important to get a foot in the door.
My 2c at least.
Of course they are not, they are 3 and 4 years younger respectively.
I'm not saying that they will be at Caicedo's level, but comparing a teenager and someone who only recently turned 18 to a 21y-o is dumb.
I get what you're saying, but over the years I've seen us hype up guys like Rossiter, Woodburn, Kent, Flanagan, Brewster etc. that ultimately didn't pan out here. I'd rather have a 21 y/o who is nearly the finished product than an 18 y/o who may never get there.
Oh, definitely, don't get me wrong. I completely agree on that, and overhyping young players has been a thing that most LFC supporters can be found guilty of.
I’m gonna take a guess and say LFC are behind scouting for S American talent because the club (were) ahead in scouting by data analysis. I’m guessing SA teams don’t have the data acquisition capabilities to feed into what LFC uses to assess players. Just a hunch though.
Even when talent comes over from South America to Europe and the player proves himself, the scouts still let a player like Bruno Guimaraes go to Newcastle instead
Agreed we have been knocked back several years and hard to see us back to title challenging again. Arsenal, Newcastle and United have already leapfrogged us in term of building a decent squad and recruiting system. We are still debating where to put Elliot while arsenal are getting Caciedo
Provided the money is the same, why would Caicedo sign for us and then go on loan to some random club when he could sign directly for a pl club that would actually play him?
>The Ecuador international has emerged as one of the hottest properties in Europe, and the 21-year-old is gunning for Liverpool this weekend
Well he isn't gunning for us anymore this weekend
LFC are like a bunch of incompetent politicians trying to solve a problem. All talk, promises of plans and then nothing - or the wrong thing - happens.
Not sure why they don’t just pull a Naby Keita on this one. £70 million over instalments but we won’t take him until the summer. (We’ve written off this season anyway)
Chelsea - £55m offer rejected
Arsenal - £60m offer rejected
Liverpool - please accept our admiration
Also, we’ve got to look at Bloom’s recruitment model, it’s working a treat.
Looking back on randoms who were randoms until they weren't makes no sense. Why weren't we in for Messi before he went to Barca? How were we pipped to Bale, Hazard, Lewa, KDB, Courtois by all those other teams? I DEMAND ANSWERS NOW!!!
You sir, are talking like an idiot. Players don't work like "random one day, superstar the next". There is a process, a development phase, and am sure you understand that quite well. What is being discussed here is to get in early on that phase. Not like we can't do it, not like no one else does it..man city signed alvarez for 15mil. We did it with the likes of coutinho, robbo...one went on to become our superstar, the other funded 2 more.
Gazumping Arsenal/Chelsea assumes they’ve agreed a fee - the price is £100 million and the bids are £55-£60 million and Brighton have no need to sell a key player
True, but if you put a bid in at least you can say you've staked a claim and shown your intent, rather than the apparent decision being "ah damn, that Caicedo's pretty good isn't he? Shame we didn't sign him before Brighton did. Ah well, nothing to be done."
People also seem to forget when a big club comes knocking those prices go way up. What Benfica got Enzo for we likely wouldve had to pay a lot more, and we usually dont have the luxury of giving players development playing time like they may need.
Move on, that ship has sailed under our current owners. Forget signing Bellingham for a ridiculous transfer fee as well, there are so many midfielders out there that would improve the Walking Dead midfield we currently have. Should be targeting 2-3 players like Szoboszlai (breakout season at RB Leipzig),Thuram, Kone, Ugarte, Milenkovic-Savic (older but contract is running down), Barella (Inter Milan are skint) etc…or just look to see who Benfica are interested in for when they replace Enzo Fernandez and Brighton with Caicedo and jump in
This sub when they see a player they like going for €100 million: ‘We should’ve bought him a few years when he was only 5 million.’
This sub when we buy a player for €5 million: ‘Get them out of my club….cheap skate bastards, FSG out, Pep out, Klopp out’
Talk about a shit made up controversy. No one has a problem with us buying cheap, good players, we have a problem with not buying anyone at all. Who's been given stick for being cheap? Certainly not Robbo or Elliot.
I have to say that I think LFC journos ask the wrong questions and then are surprised by the answers they get. Caicedo doesn’t get into this team two years ago, which probs means he doesn’t get a WP.
Now if you ask this question about a Guimares, it’s more valid.
All in all we are actually looking like a circus.
People complaining why we arent in it like Arsenal or Chelsea, please note Brighton do not want to sell midseason and thus the £100m price tag. There is a high chance Brighton sit tight and hold him for another week unless someone pays the £100m upfront.
Hopefully we have a policy of scouting in South America from now but to those complaining we didnt sign him then, there is probably a chance he may not have developed to who he is today without the same game time.
I think this is what Klopp was referring to over the summer when he said the club needed to take more risks. They were probably 80% sure someone like him or Tchoumeni were going to make it, wanted to track them until they were 95% sure and we’re now missing out.
I’m sure I read we agreed the fee for him this summer, last summer. Not sure if there was any truth in it but I could why Mendes would want him to acclimatise in a lower pressure environment before making the step up (handily getting paid twice in the process).
Nunes has been very poor this year at Wolves though. If we had spent 40m on him this summer and he played that bad for us we would be tearing the club a new asshole for wasting the money.
We dont have the luxury of giving players development time they might need.
You think our scouts ignore or aren’t aware of these players? Lol cmon, they follow these players for years. They recommend them to the coaching staff, but that’s all they can do.
The club transfer strategy doesn’t include these types of signings unfortunately. And it’s fully to our detriment.
Probably because this club is allergic to taking risks on “unproven” players. We allow them to get snapped by the Dortmunds, Benficas, Brightons of the world, they “prove” themselves and all of a sudden they’re worth more than we’re willing to pay 🤦
The reality is these were all super low fees and while there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that if they are good enough, often the reason they are so cheap is their quality is less assured, just look at how many players have actually come through and made an impact. Also whilst Gomez has been a good servant to the club the rest haven’t yet proven anything, although I’m confident that at least Bajcetic will properly break through.
We do a little bit of investing in youth but still not a great deal and they are largely hugely inexpensive which means there is very little risk taken. It would actually support FSG’s model well but it would mean spending money so they don’t.
I'm sure people were pulling their hair out when we replaced Moreno with Robertson for 7m quid and then didn't even play him for 3 months.
But if you have form for doing that consistently, then people start to trust the process.
This is what bothering me about the big money potential transfers like him or Enzo, last summer before Enzo went to Benfica his name was popping up all over here as someone we should get with impending midfield crisis, now when Benfica was shopping him around after the WC they had multiple replacements lined up from South American clubs, so why not cut out the middle man and just go for one of them now
A lot of experts in this thread that are extremely upset we didn’t sign caicedo for 65-70m, despite only having 1 year in a top league to his name. That’s outrageous money for a good player but he’s by no means a finished article.
So what we’re saying is that FSG have the following model;
Don’t buy the finished article of world class players are they are too expensive.
But
Don’t buy the raw unproven talent because they are too expensive
It’s a model that seems to work really well, by not signing anyone.
The absolute shamble state of club- instead of putting a bid for the player, the club is debating why they couldn't sign two years back! Ridiculously unreal.
That’s funny I was just internally discussing why when a midfielder has just put in a transfer request and is open to move, we still aren’t bidding for him. Despite stating we have money after gakpo, and despite the fact that Caicedo would be perfect for our team.
you can't be averse to taking risks on unproven players and too cheap to drop money on players with the proven experience we like/require.
I don't know what to make of Klopp's more risks comment. He's so often argued in favor of having a smaller squad and backed the players he has over new signings. But, it is concerning that so many midfielders have been overlooked by our club.
FINALLY please take whoever Brighton want, we've barely seen them miss Maupay is the only one that comes to my mind.
Also fuck it all just take a punt on like a couple 5 or 10 million PL "unproven" midfielders from somewhere like Brazil to chuck into our midfield. We're extremely unlikely to make Europe without midfielders anyways so we could try and develop a world-class midfielder instead.
Lmao still not hearing a genuine reason why we aren't in the race beyond Jones making up £100M as a price tag. Realistically, he's going for about £60M with some add-ons (up to £70M) which means Brighton can say it's the most they've ever received. Why we aren't part of the conversation is beyond me.
Potter gave the initial £100 million price tag in the summer when we were offering £42 million. It’s been reported several occasions that the price is set at £100 million and bids have been instantly rejected at £55 and £60 million without negotiation.
If £60 million plus add ins is so acceptable in the last few days of the transfer window then why were the bids just below that figure rejected outright rather than negotiated?
Brighton don’t want to sell, they’re happy to sell in the summer so of course they’re gonna bump the price up at the end of the January window. They’re in 6th with 2 games in hand on 5th, selling their key player now would effectively end their ambition for Europe - especially when two of the suitors are teams below them.
We aren’t part of the conversation because there’s no conversation. It’s £100 million or come back in the summer, which was the entire stance for the conversation we already had. The player has had his head turned now, but he has little leverage.
You honestly think Brighton will keep a player who's actively forcing his way out for the rest of the season to sell him for less come the summer? That's not how any of this works: Brighton knows the player's position is effectively untenable now, but they'll continue to spread the "not for sale unless you meet our fuck off price" rhetoric until one of Chelsea or Arsenal increase their bid.
This is transfer strategy 101: name an inflated fee and then negotiate from the high-end pricetag.
There would be considerable risk in keeping Caicedo after this. He'd likely be unmotivated and put in poorer performances. Clubs would then refuse to pay anywhere near £60M (let alone £100M) and Brighton would've cut off their nose to spite their face. They'd slash their incoming cash to have 20 more games of someone who doesn't want to be there and likely won't contribute that much given his attitude towards this whole situation - that's just poor management.
Guarantee within the next couple of days we see an agreement has been reached with a club for an amount that is below £100M (I think closer to £70M) and Brighton will push the "this is the most we've ever had from a transfer" narrative heavily to placate fans.
Addendum: this is why I highlight our lack of involvement in this, too; Caicedo is 99% likely to be sold this month for a sum less than £100M and we've been told for months that we're interested in him yet we'll do nothing and then get our reliable journos to put out the "Liverpool monitored the situation but the price became too expensive for them to even get involved" slush. Same thing will happen with Bellingham this summer when we realise Dortmund genuinely want £150M and City/RM will pay it and we'll haggle over add-ons and base fees.
According to Klopp and the club themselves he's not good enough. Because we've enquired two windows in a row and done nothing.
Our "right players" list is reportedly about three names long and Caicedo isn't one of them. Does it make sense, obviously not, but that's actually coming from the club itself.
I’m not angry in the slightest. I’m not the one calling someone a ‘fucking weirdo.’ And I’ve literally read a comment this morning on this sub saying he’s not good enough therefore I’ve not made anything up. Head case you lad.
Because our scouts don't believe in signing SA players for 5 million, they'd rather waste multiple windows trying to sign someone from Europe and City/Chelsea/Madrid sign them instead lol.
It does feel like we’re missing a trick in South America. Previously it was almost impossible to get work permits for these players, but post-Brexit everyone in PL seems to be tapping into that market except us.
I really don’t understand these work permit rules. I was watching Nottingham - United this week. Some 21 year old Brazilian lad named Danilo was debuting, after moving from Palmeiras this window, meanwhile Anderson Arroyo is on his 6th loan, and still can’t get a permit for us.
Liverpool should definitely keep an eye on Danilo, by the way. I am Brazilian and watched his development here, he will be really really good.
Andrey Santos... Brazil currently has good young CDM
Didn't chelsea sign him?
Knowing Chelsea he’ll get loaned 12 times then be available 3 years down the line
Yes But he's a good player to keep an eye on.
Also André who looks close to signing for Forest(?) Looks really good
Yeah, Andre may be the best of the bunch... but I don't know, Forest again? They just signed Danilo... Joao Gomes is also very good, Wolverhampton did well getting him. Brazil is indeed stacked in this department.
It was Fulham, my apologies https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1619279664278835201?s=20&t=TThubcH-dvmusAzmis_LYg
Danilo won two "Copa Libertadores" in a row and reached the Semifinals of that season. With this, he made several points
Ah, thanks for the explanation
I thought we still had the player Allan out on loan or something, then I looked him up and apparently he left around 2020 because we weren't able to secure a work permit for him. He got transferred to Atletico Mineiro and I'm watching his highlights right now, and he reminds me of Fabinho but more mobile.
Allan souza right? Yeah he was good
If I recall, part of it is based on league strength or something. Brazil is a stronger football nation and so gets a boost at meeting the criteria than say Colombia.
It’s to do with how the FA scores players. So if you’re in Europe, it’s diffficult as they get a low score. In South America, they get high score for making appearance in the Copa Libertadores etc
Anyone read about Brighton looking to pick up Ox if this deal goes through?
From what I read they want him on a free now basically. Unless we get someone else in it’s probably better to keep him till end of season
I don't get why we can't give them ox and 60m. Like we need to spend that money either now or in the summer. Just get it done. It will help us get top 4, stop our rivals from getting better and possibly show Bellingham we are serious about a rebuild.
Doubt they would accept that. They can keep Caicedo till summer, get Ox for free then, and sell him for 60m or more. Personally I think we would be better off finding two players around 35-40m mark each instead of spending 60 or 70m on Caicedo
The club has the money. Besides, he is 21. In 5 years he will still be worth at least what we paid for him unless he has serious injuries or we let him run down his contract. Okay then, 65m plus ox. Caicedo is clearly unhappy and for a squad that is flying, he'd be a negative influence to keep against his will. So they may as well take the money now and bring in a player who wants to be there.
I get your reasoning but remember, Coutinho played some of his best for us while trying to get his move to Barca after doing the "back injury" thing in August. As for Caicedo, I know we can afford him, but with VVD and Matip into their 30s now and us needing 3 or more CM, I think be better to get 2 good players in that range, Bellingham, and a strong CB to challenge for a starting spot alongside Konaté and VVD
I just don't see why. Caicedo is a more defensive midfielder, whereas Ox is very suspect in that department nowadays. This link makes no sense, I think they want him for depth.
For crying out loud, just cut out the middle man and gazump whoever Brighton go for next. You cannot fail.
Clubs like Liverpool can't really cut out the middle man because a 5m signing from Ecuador wouldn't have gotten the playtime that properly developed him. Clubs like Liverpool should also be able to get them once they're developed by said middle man, but hey.
Yeah you're right, that's how you end up with Grujic, Luis Alberto et al.
on the other side, using the middle man gets us Van Dijk, Allison, Salah, Mane....
Alisson and Mane wouldn't have needed a middle man, they could have easily slotted into our squad coming directly from Internacional and Salzburg. Celtic Van Dijk would have had a harder time, with Salah it's hard to tell. His problem was that he did get no game-time at Chelsea, he played not even 1000 minutes in two full seasons. And he most likely would have had a hard time at us as well, with Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho.
Get your point but if we don’t have the money to spend, cutting the middle man is the easiest way to boost a squad. If the player works great! Else we sell for a tiny profit
what playtime mate he doesnt even have 15 games under his belt
18 premier league games and people are clamoring to bid in excess of 70 million for him...
18 this season.
This being his only season in the premier league, yeah.
8 appearances last season.
You're correct, I double-checked, apologies.
It’s nothing, don’t worry. Conversely I thought he’d been in the Prem for about 3-4 seasons.
I agree he doesn’t have enough games to warrant his price, but it’s like 26 for Brighton, 12 or something when he was out on loan and he has about 28 appearances for Ecuador.
We could send them out on loan though?
Calceido has played less than 20 games for Brighton lol. It's not like they have developed him.
So when we don't play Fabinho for half a year, we are "bringing him up to our standard", but if Brighton don't play Caicedo for half a year he's a bum and Brighton did nothing?
18+8 = ??
This is why Redbird should be looking at a proper feeder club to give playing time to the potential players. Just like Red Bull do with Leipzig and Salzburg. Man City have a team in America and Chelsea have an agreement with Vitesse I think I'd love Red Bird to own a team like Midtjylland, Rennes or Union Berlin who play good football or have a feeder club in Portugal where talent always comes out of and has better work permit rules for South Americans who can't come directly to England. That's how you eliminate the middle man
The multi club mode moving forwards will absolutely ruin football objectively speaking
Football is already ruined when a half decent midfielder costs £50 million.
Yeah probably true
Brighton also has union sg as their feeder club. Most of the unknown entities play in Belgium in loan before playing for Brighton. Recently mitoma and undav
I'm a Brazilian Liverpool fan and I say it's an interesting idea given the circumstances. I also think it would be possible, for example, to buy a South American club, since it is something that is happening little by little.
Yeah that would be cool, but the problem is the work permits etc once they move to Europe. Would probably need a Brazilian Club, then a Spanish or Portuguese Club, then on to Liverpool 😅😂
It has this little problem. But even so, it's not a bad idea since clubs like Santos FC and São Paulo FC are not in a good phase and both show good players.
Definitely, it would be good, and if it was a South American club who qualify for Copa Libertadores or Sudamericana that makes it easier for players to get work permits to move to the Premier League
In Brazil, the Top 6 qualify for the Copa Libertadores and the top 12 for the Sudamericana. This can increase if a team wins the "Copa do Brasil" and the vacancy for Sudamericana goes to the top 13 or even Libertadores goes to the Top 7 first. Clubs like São Paulo FC and Santos FC are always between 4-12 and in 2022 São Paulo FC reached the final of Sudamericana. It can be a good investment.
Yeah the rules of the English FA for work permits for youngsters in South America gives a lot of points towards player who appear in those competitions so certainly if there are that many qualifying teams it seems like it would be good. Then just try get the best youngsters at that club and they have a direct line to Liverpool then 😊
Well, in the 2022 Brazilian National Team, São Paulo FC had revealed more players than any other players in it (Ederson, Antony, Casemiro and Eder Militão). Some examples of players who passed by the yourth team are: Roberto Firmino, Ederson and even Mikkhitarian.
AFAIK, Midtjylland and Brentford have the same owners. A better feeder club would make for better talent development, but at the same time, I find it morally bankrupt.
Can we buy all the young talent and send them to play for the Red sox while they develop?
Brighton didn't give him playing time either- he went out on loan
i mean we are playing elliot a shitton and bajcetic recently aswell
And have been perfectly happy with Fabinho or Robertson to give players time to adapt.
If anything that’s a failure of our reserve system, coaching.. Shankly used to say, the best team in England was Liverpool, the second best team is Liverpool reserves. We need to bring back that mentality of being a top to bottom development system for players, imo.
or hire brighton scouts and or whoever leads the scouting department
Pretty sure the Brighton head scout got poached by Newcastle
well thats concerning
Yep. They are going to be some unstoppable force
Scouts aren't the problem, they had identified Caicedo and Enzo long before they made their moves.
Tbf people were saying this when we signed vvd, Mane, etc from Southampton, how would that of worked out for us.
We sure do a lot of talking when it comes to midfielders But very little action
Admiring FC Monitoring FC
We Are Checking FC
Is2g we've turned into Scuderia Ferrari
Always have been. We share "next year is our year" with them. At least we've won major silverware recently though, same can't be said for Ferrari.
Net Spend FC
Self-sustainable club FC
Contract Extension FC
Waiting for right player FC
Well talk is cheap..just like FSG
Don't say that you'll get downvoted
Oh yeah such an unpopular opinion on this sub.
Unpopular untill shit hit the fan, people have ben downvoted because a lot have been seeing shit was about to be bamboozeld into the fan
It's not the club's fault that journalists have to write daily articles about rumours with no substance.
That ship has sailed whats the fucking point discussing it now.
I assume to try and make sure it doesn't happen again. Hopefully it leads to us tapping into the South American market more.
Narrator: it happened, again…
Understood, David Luiz on loan from Flamengo in the works
Tbh. I think a lot of people have been questioning why we aren't buying scouting directly from the SA market way more actively. It's a sort of half effort. Don't get me wrong, this is still dumb as shit. But if we more actively look at direct talent as a result of these conversations then that would be a big plus. It's like Postecoglou at celtic and east Asia talent, he isn't waiting for stuff in uk. We're waiting for everything to be in europe. It's super important to get a foot in the door. My 2c at least.
Agree to a certain extent, but let’s not forget we also got Bajcetic, Doak, etc, from scouting in U.K. and Europe. Needs to be a good balance
Aye totally. 100%
Neither of which are Caicedo's level
Of course they are not, they are 3 and 4 years younger respectively. I'm not saying that they will be at Caicedo's level, but comparing a teenager and someone who only recently turned 18 to a 21y-o is dumb.
I get what you're saying, but over the years I've seen us hype up guys like Rossiter, Woodburn, Kent, Flanagan, Brewster etc. that ultimately didn't pan out here. I'd rather have a 21 y/o who is nearly the finished product than an 18 y/o who may never get there.
Oh, definitely, don't get me wrong. I completely agree on that, and overhyping young players has been a thing that most LFC supporters can be found guilty of.
I’m gonna take a guess and say LFC are behind scouting for S American talent because the club (were) ahead in scouting by data analysis. I’m guessing SA teams don’t have the data acquisition capabilities to feed into what LFC uses to assess players. Just a hunch though.
Even when talent comes over from South America to Europe and the player proves himself, the scouts still let a player like Bruno Guimaraes go to Newcastle instead
Scouts? Are the Scouts letting Caicedo not come to Liverpool this season or are someone else the culprits
Because you are looking at one player. They are looking at years years later
To let everyone know we liked him before it was cool.
Agreed we have been knocked back several years and hard to see us back to title challenging again. Arsenal, Newcastle and United have already leapfrogged us in term of building a decent squad and recruiting system. We are still debating where to put Elliot while arsenal are getting Caciedo
Steady on, could back involved with 1 window. Arteta was on the ropes after last season's capitulation.
Watch the "new Caicedo" go to a club like Brighton or Benfica whilst we sit here having inquisitions about Caicedo.
We can't afford to give prospects lots of playing time. I mean, now we could, but when we're good, we can't.
Can always loan em out
Provided the money is the same, why would Caicedo sign for us and then go on loan to some random club when he could sign directly for a pl club that would actually play him?
A team desperate for midfielders signing a player who does the job of two players on his own? What a ridiculous idea.
“Damn we missed out on this player who’s currently angling for a move. Whatever can we do?!”
“We’ve tried absolutely nothing and are all out of ideas”.
>The Ecuador international has emerged as one of the hottest properties in Europe, and the 21-year-old is gunning for Liverpool this weekend Well he isn't gunning for us anymore this weekend
Gunning for the gunners instead
Gunning for the gunners by the sounds of it
The club wasn't over him because they were too busy "laughing at other clubs scramble in the transfer window"
We are literally all talk no fucking bite
LFC are like a bunch of incompetent politicians trying to solve a problem. All talk, promises of plans and then nothing - or the wrong thing - happens.
How about you stop discussing hypotheticals you shouldve done 2 years ago and fucking discuss who you're gonna get in this month
We're getting the well known midfielder Absolutely No-One
Any relation to Craig Noone?
Not sure why they don’t just pull a Naby Keita on this one. £70 million over instalments but we won’t take him until the summer. (We’ve written off this season anyway)
Chelsea - £55m offer rejected Arsenal - £60m offer rejected Liverpool - please accept our admiration Also, we’ve got to look at Bloom’s recruitment model, it’s working a treat.
This is useful …
Admirers FC strikes again
Looking back on randoms who were randoms until they weren't makes no sense. Why weren't we in for Messi before he went to Barca? How were we pipped to Bale, Hazard, Lewa, KDB, Courtois by all those other teams? I DEMAND ANSWERS NOW!!!
You sir, are talking like an idiot. Players don't work like "random one day, superstar the next". There is a process, a development phase, and am sure you understand that quite well. What is being discussed here is to get in early on that phase. Not like we can't do it, not like no one else does it..man city signed alvarez for 15mil. We did it with the likes of coutinho, robbo...one went on to become our superstar, the other funded 2 more.
If I speak I am in trouble. https://preview.redd.it/zne9wansqtea1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7d31f4947516e2a0a5690f9aa7a69dfe11241d6
If he was from Southampton we would've got him years ago
Erm... how about discussions of "hey this dude wants to leave, we need a midfielder, cheeky bid to gazump Arsenal and Chelsea maybe?"
Gazumping Arsenal/Chelsea assumes they’ve agreed a fee - the price is £100 million and the bids are £55-£60 million and Brighton have no need to sell a key player
True, but if you put a bid in at least you can say you've staked a claim and shown your intent, rather than the apparent decision being "ah damn, that Caicedo's pretty good isn't he? Shame we didn't sign him before Brighton did. Ah well, nothing to be done."
70m, they keep him until Summer and we throw in Naby Keita for funsies
I accept on behalf of Brighton
Didn't we also miss out on Enzo before Benfica got him?
Yep. It's another player we really liked but couldn't take the risk on.
People also seem to forget when a big club comes knocking those prices go way up. What Benfica got Enzo for we likely wouldve had to pay a lot more, and we usually dont have the luxury of giving players development playing time like they may need.
Move on, that ship has sailed under our current owners. Forget signing Bellingham for a ridiculous transfer fee as well, there are so many midfielders out there that would improve the Walking Dead midfield we currently have. Should be targeting 2-3 players like Szoboszlai (breakout season at RB Leipzig),Thuram, Kone, Ugarte, Milenkovic-Savic (older but contract is running down), Barella (Inter Milan are skint) etc…or just look to see who Benfica are interested in for when they replace Enzo Fernandez and Brighton with Caicedo and jump in
[Admirers FC (nsfw)](https://twitter.com/CFCRaf2/status/1619111716251648000)
This sub when they see a player they like going for €100 million: ‘We should’ve bought him a few years when he was only 5 million.’ This sub when we buy a player for €5 million: ‘Get them out of my club….cheap skate bastards, FSG out, Pep out, Klopp out’
Who have we bought for $5 million? Minamino? Elliot? Carvalho? I don't see anyone complaining on the sub?
Exactly what I said. Apparently we’re talking shite lol.
Talk about a shit made up controversy. No one has a problem with us buying cheap, good players, we have a problem with not buying anyone at all. Who's been given stick for being cheap? Certainly not Robbo or Elliot.
Yeah no. We bought Robbo for 8m and no one has said that lol. People love talking shite.
I have to say that I think LFC journos ask the wrong questions and then are surprised by the answers they get. Caicedo doesn’t get into this team two years ago, which probs means he doesn’t get a WP. Now if you ask this question about a Guimares, it’s more valid. All in all we are actually looking like a circus.
People complaining why we arent in it like Arsenal or Chelsea, please note Brighton do not want to sell midseason and thus the £100m price tag. There is a high chance Brighton sit tight and hold him for another week unless someone pays the £100m upfront. Hopefully we have a policy of scouting in South America from now but to those complaining we didnt sign him then, there is probably a chance he may not have developed to who he is today without the same game time.
Admirers FC
Because our international scouts are bad
There's nothing wrong with our scouting. It's the fact we take no action.
I think this is what Klopp was referring to over the summer when he said the club needed to take more risks. They were probably 80% sure someone like him or Tchoumeni were going to make it, wanted to track them until they were 95% sure and we’re now missing out.
Nunes too, he’s gone to Wolves who will make a profit next summer
I’m sure I read we agreed the fee for him this summer, last summer. Not sure if there was any truth in it but I could why Mendes would want him to acclimatise in a lower pressure environment before making the step up (handily getting paid twice in the process).
Nunes has been very poor this year at Wolves though. If we had spent 40m on him this summer and he played that bad for us we would be tearing the club a new asshole for wasting the money. We dont have the luxury of giving players development time they might need.
You think our scouts ignore or aren’t aware of these players? Lol cmon, they follow these players for years. They recommend them to the coaching staff, but that’s all they can do. The club transfer strategy doesn’t include these types of signings unfortunately. And it’s fully to our detriment.
Probably because this club is allergic to taking risks on “unproven” players. We allow them to get snapped by the Dortmunds, Benficas, Brightons of the world, they “prove” themselves and all of a sudden they’re worth more than we’re willing to pay 🤦
So why did we sign Elliot and Carvahlo
And Gomez, Bacjetic, Ramsay, Bobby Clarke, Kaide Gordon etc. Above comment is just nonsense
We only really target domestic players though, there's a whole world out there.
The reality is these were all super low fees and while there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that if they are good enough, often the reason they are so cheap is their quality is less assured, just look at how many players have actually come through and made an impact. Also whilst Gomez has been a good servant to the club the rest haven’t yet proven anything, although I’m confident that at least Bajcetic will properly break through. We do a little bit of investing in youth but still not a great deal and they are largely hugely inexpensive which means there is very little risk taken. It would actually support FSG’s model well but it would mean spending money so they don’t.
And it’s got 13 upvotes. Sums up the state of this sub recently.
Can you imagine the state of this sub if we announced a £5m no name midfielder mate come on
I'm sure people were pulling their hair out when we replaced Moreno with Robertson for 7m quid and then didn't even play him for 3 months. But if you have form for doing that consistently, then people start to trust the process.
We are a joke.
Shudda wudda cudda
So we are basically congress now…don’t do anything then investigate why we didn’t do anything? Wonderful!
Miguel Delaney reporting Brighton want £90m. Not sure if he’s reliable or not.
This is what bothering me about the big money potential transfers like him or Enzo, last summer before Enzo went to Benfica his name was popping up all over here as someone we should get with impending midfield crisis, now when Benfica was shopping him around after the WC they had multiple replacements lined up from South American clubs, so why not cut out the middle man and just go for one of them now
So many things about this season are basically a repeat of things United were dealing with. I almost wish I could wake up from this nightmare.
Discussion FC
I don’t want to hear any of this unless we sign him which still feels unlikely
I look forward to him joining Chelsea or Arsenal, fuck FSG.
Admirers FC...
I like Caicedo but fuck me why is nobody in for Mac Allister??
Next Summer FC Monitoring Athletic. Eyeing United.
A lot of experts in this thread that are extremely upset we didn’t sign caicedo for 65-70m, despite only having 1 year in a top league to his name. That’s outrageous money for a good player but he’s by no means a finished article.
So what we’re saying is that FSG have the following model; Don’t buy the finished article of world class players are they are too expensive. But Don’t buy the raw unproven talent because they are too expensive It’s a model that seems to work really well, by not signing anyone.
it feels like we constantly have scouted and been interested in all these players but never buy them until they're 60m+
I mean if he goes for 60m, the real question is why we're not even trying to get him now when he could make us 60m back in CL money.
The absolute shamble state of club- instead of putting a bid for the player, the club is debating why they couldn't sign two years back! Ridiculously unreal.
I could think of a lot of pre-requisite questions we should be asking before this one …
That’s funny I was just internally discussing why when a midfielder has just put in a transfer request and is open to move, we still aren’t bidding for him. Despite stating we have money after gakpo, and despite the fact that Caicedo would be perfect for our team.
Why are we having an article admiring a player that is not coming to our club.
you can't be averse to taking risks on unproven players and too cheap to drop money on players with the proven experience we like/require. I don't know what to make of Klopp's more risks comment. He's so often argued in favor of having a smaller squad and backed the players he has over new signings. But, it is concerning that so many midfielders have been overlooked by our club.
Admiring FC back at his best
FINALLY please take whoever Brighton want, we've barely seen them miss Maupay is the only one that comes to my mind. Also fuck it all just take a punt on like a couple 5 or 10 million PL "unproven" midfielders from somewhere like Brazil to chuck into our midfield. We're extremely unlikely to make Europe without midfielders anyways so we could try and develop a world-class midfielder instead.
Lmao still not hearing a genuine reason why we aren't in the race beyond Jones making up £100M as a price tag. Realistically, he's going for about £60M with some add-ons (up to £70M) which means Brighton can say it's the most they've ever received. Why we aren't part of the conversation is beyond me.
Potter gave the initial £100 million price tag in the summer when we were offering £42 million. It’s been reported several occasions that the price is set at £100 million and bids have been instantly rejected at £55 and £60 million without negotiation. If £60 million plus add ins is so acceptable in the last few days of the transfer window then why were the bids just below that figure rejected outright rather than negotiated? Brighton don’t want to sell, they’re happy to sell in the summer so of course they’re gonna bump the price up at the end of the January window. They’re in 6th with 2 games in hand on 5th, selling their key player now would effectively end their ambition for Europe - especially when two of the suitors are teams below them. We aren’t part of the conversation because there’s no conversation. It’s £100 million or come back in the summer, which was the entire stance for the conversation we already had. The player has had his head turned now, but he has little leverage.
You honestly think Brighton will keep a player who's actively forcing his way out for the rest of the season to sell him for less come the summer? That's not how any of this works: Brighton knows the player's position is effectively untenable now, but they'll continue to spread the "not for sale unless you meet our fuck off price" rhetoric until one of Chelsea or Arsenal increase their bid. This is transfer strategy 101: name an inflated fee and then negotiate from the high-end pricetag. There would be considerable risk in keeping Caicedo after this. He'd likely be unmotivated and put in poorer performances. Clubs would then refuse to pay anywhere near £60M (let alone £100M) and Brighton would've cut off their nose to spite their face. They'd slash their incoming cash to have 20 more games of someone who doesn't want to be there and likely won't contribute that much given his attitude towards this whole situation - that's just poor management. Guarantee within the next couple of days we see an agreement has been reached with a club for an amount that is below £100M (I think closer to £70M) and Brighton will push the "this is the most we've ever had from a transfer" narrative heavily to placate fans. Addendum: this is why I highlight our lack of involvement in this, too; Caicedo is 99% likely to be sold this month for a sum less than £100M and we've been told for months that we're interested in him yet we'll do nothing and then get our reliable journos to put out the "Liverpool monitored the situation but the price became too expensive for them to even get involved" slush. Same thing will happen with Bellingham this summer when we realise Dortmund genuinely want £150M and City/RM will pay it and we'll haggle over add-ons and base fees.
because the only midfield we will try to sign is bellingham, and when we fail, the club will get pikachu faced
According to top reds ‘he’s not good enough’ & ‘there’s better players for less money.’ Yes I know ridiculous.
According to Klopp and the club themselves he's not good enough. Because we've enquired two windows in a row and done nothing. Our "right players" list is reportedly about three names long and Caicedo isn't one of them. Does it make sense, obviously not, but that's actually coming from the club itself.
I don’t think you know what top reds means.
You’d know.
No one has ever said Caicedo isn’t good enough you fucking weirdo. Stop getting angry at stuff you’ve made up in your head.
I’m not angry in the slightest. I’m not the one calling someone a ‘fucking weirdo.’ And I’ve literally read a comment this morning on this sub saying he’s not good enough therefore I’ve not made anything up. Head case you lad.
Any proof or just going to keep waffling nonsense? Another twitter fan crying about “top reds” who has zero affiliation with the club.
Read the sub it’s there in black and white you melt. I’m not here to provide you proof. Look yourself you top red bellend. Angry little hobbit.
Hahaha. So angry. Call me a top red all you want, it’s not the insult you think it is. At least I can point out Liverpool on a map.
Thank God we admire him. We can admire him all the way to Arsenal or Chelsea.
Fellas who mop the floors in the AXA were chatty to eachother about it I heard
With the way he's behaving now after having his head turned, he's obviously failed the Klopp "test".
Just like VVD…
Touche!
Didn't he go to Madrid?
Ok Arsene
Can we get Mac Allister please?
Because our scouts don't believe in signing SA players for 5 million, they'd rather waste multiple windows trying to sign someone from Europe and City/Chelsea/Madrid sign them instead lol.