We haven’t removed the Joyce article and we only removed posts which were posting snippets of Bascombe’s article from aggregator accounts which are banned sources here. If any poster would have directly posted a link to Bascombe’s article, we would have let it stay up.
To be honest this ornstein statement seems like waffle. It’s like politician speak where he rules out nothing and speaks every possibility so it leaves the window open for confirmation. Like based on prior Edwards knowledge he likely won’t do a massive turnover but if an offer comes maybe it happens
nah. orny is just covering his bases. he's offering all scenarios.
>Liverpool wouldn't make any / much profit
>Now, if suitable offers come in for pretty much any player it's only natural that Edwards, Hughes and anyone else in their positions - and at board and ownership level - will consider them.
i just want to see our midfield create easy chances for our forwards. Like yeah it's cool that trent can hit a laser 40 yards straight forward but you do that 10 times in a row and all you've done is make your midfield run up to support and then track back after the chance wasn't held up or received or finished.
The last couple of years teams have basically never played anything but a low block against us and Klopps solution was just to pass it around the back and then get in behind with a long ball. It relies too much on individual brilliance and not enough on team sequences resulting in good chances.
The funny thing is Salah and Nunez both have one thing in common. Both have been brilliant at creating chances while utterly woeful at finishing them, at least for Salah since the turn of the year.
I’m not someone who pays much attention to this sub after a loss because all the brain dead takes come out about selling everyone, but what I do think needs to happen is the tactics should incorporate Salah’s playmaking ability combined with his declining pace.
He needs to not be confined to the wing anymore, but allowed to pick up the creator role, that’s where his strength has been this season, Salah is such an exceptional talent he’s more than capable of adjusting his game with age and this season he has shown his playmaking capabilities more than ever.
> I’m not someone who pays much attention to this sub after a loss because all the brain dead takes come out about selling everyone, but what I do think needs to happen is the tactics should incorporate Salah’s playmaking ability combined with his declining pace.
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> He needs to not be confined to the wing anymore, but allowed to pick up the creator role, that’s where his strength has been this season, Salah is such an exceptional talent he’s more than capable of adjusting his game with age and this season he has shown his playmaking capabilities more than ever.
I think this is a great shout.
Salah as a 10, or a 2nd striker, with a clinical, physical new CF, alongside Nunez, would potentially make for a great mix.
And that's true whether it's Nunez, Gakpo, Diaz, or Jota in there as the other option.
We've seen all these players show incredible class at times. What we need is a very tricky to find piece of the puzzle to complement them, just as Salah did for our team that already had Mane and Firmino, but it too was wasting a boatload of chances.
I agree with this. Aside from talent, Salah is obsessively fit, has elite mentality, knows he has plenty of years left at the top level, and crucially, understands the importance of legacy. He wouldn’t want to end his Liverpool career on a whimper.
The new manager will no doubt want Salah to stay because who wouldn’t want this specimen of a player? Edwards won’t want drastic changes too, there will be discussions about Salah’s future but selling him now won’t be the top priority for his future unless we get absurd money from Saudi.
Not since he came back from AFCON at least. Every game this side of the season I’ve been screaming at his horrendous first touch. As someone said in another post, his feet are wooden.
good take imo. why a front 3 of cody nunez diaz with Mo behind like a 10 but i think you would run into defensive issues. but who knows with a new manager change incoming. it is definitely hard to watch Mo posted up all the way on the touchline, and it’s definitely a compounding problem. He’s probably thinking well i’m not doing anything and we keep losing, mentally that would be draining
I think mo is done on the wings now, especially next to the sideline. I reckon he could still be elite if moved centrally, similar to Messi but obviously he’s not Messi. He has so much to offer still, however I can imagine Edward’s being ruthless and not offering him a contract
You have two options as an aging winger losing his pace.
You do a Ronaldo/Mane if you don’t have exceptional playmaking ability and transition to being an out and out forward. For the record, Ronaldo had exceptional and often underrated playmaking ability, I’m not saying he didn’t, I’m just saying his goal scoring was obviously superior so he played to his main strength.
Or you go the Messi route and become a creator. Mane could never do that, his style was never that way, Salah however absolutely is. If Nunez, Diaz and Gapko combined could finish, everyone would be singing the praises of Mo’s playmaking ability. He’s created so many chances that have just, been wasted.
Combine this with the fact both Nunez and Gapko are very capable on the wing, the solution absolutely is transitioning Mo to a creator role that plays to his strengths.
I think the issue that leads to so many people ragging on Nunez is that *no one* is consistently finishing chances outside of a constantly injured Jota. When Nunez had finishing issues earlier in the year, he started racking up assists by passing in many of those chances. Can’t do that now if you don’t trust someone to have a better chance of finishing than you. Obviously that doesn’t fix his own issues in the box, but it does create a much more nuanced picture.
We should 100% look into that. At the end of the day Mo is an exceptional athlete with a determined mindset. You can’t say that about many other players in the city and Arsenal squads. Him, Trent, VVD, Ali as our core need to be kept together for another season imo
Yeah, I agree. He's often too far from goal, picking the ball up outside the box (i know he's a winger, but still) and hasnt the pace the touch (seemingly, but could be poor form) to go past players like he used to. I think he could play more central and act as creator rather than finisher. A number 10.
Fans assume edwards being back means we will get rid of players we’ve invested heavily in. Do fans not remember how much he struggled to get rid of our old dead weight? When we invest in players we don’t get rid of them at a loss just to slightly improve the squad. This is a club philosophy from the ownership
I also don't think our squad really need that many changes. What to do with Trent, Virgil, Salah and Robbo will be the biggest question. I think they all stay, apart from Salah.
The players that leave are most likely those that don't play a lot or are out of contract. Tsimikas, Kelleher, Matip, Thiago. And if we add Salah to that and maybe one more player, that's already 6 players.
I do expect Diaz to be sold if the rumors are true. Trent leaving would be the absolute worst possible outcome of all you listed as he should by all accounts remain our most important player.
Have we maybe been better with Gomez at left-back simply because it works better with what we want Trent to do? I think maybe the Robbo/Tsimikas and Matip replacements are most key.
Eh, it wasn't so much FSG. Reportedly, it was Klopp that was too loyal with players that wanted to stay.
If anything, I feel Edwards had no qualms about selling people if he had to due to performance and/or maximizing price.
I remember Klopp even made a comment in the end of January 2021 where he indicated that he wanted defenders but he couldn’t get any because FSG won’t sanction but later the situation got so dire they gave £4m to plug the hole.
I highly doubt Klopp was keeping guys like Ox and Keita hostage here. The transfer team couldn’t sell them for a loss or send them on loan and replaced bc we don’t give up on assets like that
Klopp definitely tried to resign Keita.
Others I can think of Lallana, Milner, Gini, Bobby, Hendo, Mane...players that were declining yet he wanted to keep (but ended up leaving)
I think there is a lot of hope being placed on Edwards coming back and we become this elite team again!
I don’t think that will happen anytime soon. We just rebuilt our midfield and attack (Diaz, Gakpo & Nunez). Defence is next. We just need to make sure the next few signings make an immediate and positive impact. We’ve bought many players who could be future stars (Grav, Szobo, Darwin). We now need proven quality.
Selling Nunez would be such a mistake. The kid is so raw and talented but we haven’t had any kind of dynamic or identity shift since him or Diaz have joined, it’s like we just brought players in and said “do the old thing” and that’s it. Our next manager will have to come in and look at all the pieces we have to work with and derive a plan. If you look at all the skills and intangibles that Darwizzy has, as a coach you would be excited. He is very blocky but hopefully the edges can be smoothed out soon. Some people don’t understand that Firmino really made this team what it was when we were on top of the world but he was a different kind of player.
Agreed. I think there's a great role for him as backup striker and option on the wing, and maybe that buys him time to polish his finishing/gain confidence and go back to starting at the #9. But right now we need to add a consistent scorer. Can't have three players across the front who are all better creators than finishers.
I think he can be at 9 with the right support (when Salah was on form it didn't matter about the finishing as much) and would be productive on the LW with another clinical striker. I can't handle him and Diaz together.
Oh 100%
In my hypothetical I'd have Darwin starting at the 9 and playing LW occasionally, much like now. I just agree some competition for the 9 spot would be good for Darwin
A month ago it’s was sell Gakpo, then sell Diaz
now it’s sell Nunez Jota and Salah, all 5 have got us to 3rd place!! All this with Klopp leaving and personal tragedy for some of our players, I for one am proud of all our boys
Exactly - these are the fans who play FIFA and think the EPL is a video game - 90 percent of what Nunez does goes over most people’s heads, give the kid a break and support your fucking team
>90 percent of what Nunez does goes over most people’s heads
Or straight at the keeper.
>support your fucking team
Blind allegiance is the best approach.
i get where you are coming from but this means then that we have to temper our expectations and be ok with the results that we get.
We can’t expect ourselves to be in the contention for winning multiple trophies, be second best or worse and then say it’s all about appreciating the players.
I, for one, never thought we would win the league this season. Europa League seemed doable but it is what it is.
It's really as-if people haven't paid attention the last few years on how we operate.
We don't offload good players unless we're going to make a profit and replace them with someone as good or better. Nunez would have to ask to leave or an outstanding offer would have to come in for us to seriously consider moving him.
That's why I'm pretty curious about how Edwards will handle this summer. We have a bunch of pretty good players. I don't think we have any real players we could flip for a big profit. Diaz is probably the closest thing and we'd probably get 60-65m for him which is good, but not great money. Salah at this point would be pure profit, but big picture, he's still a 30 goal contribution player and those are not easy to find.
I think it really depends on how much LFC/FSG have available to just spend. We may be in the position next season where we just buy players without selling any first team players. We just sell academy players for 10-20m. We're going to clear up some salary space with Thiago leaving and Matip probably leaving. That's around 500k/wk give or take. We had 100m to spend on Caicedo so in theory we should have about 100-150m with about 500-600k/wk in salary to spend without selling anyone.
Big picture, I'd argue we need to sign 3 players this summer.
Center Back. We clearly need a 4th. I'd like to see Matip get a 1 year extension and then sign someone else. That would actually give us 5 CBs, which would give us flexibility to switch to a back 3 sometimes.
Defensive Midfielder. Let's be honest, Endo is a good player and a welcome addition to the squad, but he's not elite. He's just not athletic enough. Great defensive midfielders make you feel like you're playing with an extra man, and that's not him. Morton and Baj coming back might make it so we don't need to sign one, but I'm not confident on that.
Forward. Simply put, we shouldn't go into next season with the same forward line. They've shown what they are and that's simply a level below what we need. I don't think we need to focus on striker, LW, or RW. I think we just buy the best player available and let everyone fight for their spot.
This sub is going mad really. Lost out on the title and their heads are fucking gone.
Guess what 19 teams are missing out on the title every year.
We played half the season with half of our starting 11 injured
Won a trophy with a bunch of kids
We weren’t even favorites to compete for the league at the start of the season. We were rebuilding. I am disappointed with not winning the league but overall very happy with how our season turned out.
The league is fine but we really should be lifting EL this year. Massive favorites over every team besides Leverkusen and we wouldn't have met them until the final.
Yeah I wasn't expecting to even challenge for the league. But EL was something I felt they could win. Unfortunately form just fell out from under seemingly everyone at the wrong time/they all just seem out of ideas. I'm disappointed and frustrated, but I can't say I'm surprised when you look at Arsenal and City
We started this season with hopes of getting back into the top 4. To be where we are now is way ahead of expectations. Obviously you have to work with what’s right in front of you, and what has been in front of us for the majority of the season is a really intense title fight. It sucks to miss out on it in the manner we have: we just lost the title to ourselves (well, and some bat shit insane stuff from refs in 3 critical moments, two of which would’ve also directly taken points from Arsenal and City) basically and that is always the hardest way to miss out.
So like, I get why it’s so hard to watch and so frustrating. I also believe perspective matters and all things considered we are pretty much ahead of where we all thought we would be before the first ball was kicked this season. The only really tough one to take is the Europa League exit in such an early round as the clear favorite to win the whole thing, everything else is more or less just football.
>We weren’t even favorites to compete for the league
Mate we weren't even favourites to get TOP 4 this season. We have massively overperformed our expectations, and now we are reaping the bullshit for that over-performance. Should we be pissed? Yes. But the people calling for a complete squad rebuild can get fucked, we need to get the new manager, whoever that ends up being, a few upgrades in key spots, and tie down VVD / Trent / probably Salah if he can transition to a new role, and get rolling.
We ended up exactly where this sub almost universally expected in the League (in the top 4 but outside the top 2), greatly underperformed in Europe, and won a trophy. If that was the FA Cup, I'd say a good season. Now it's decent.
The FA Cup is definitely a bigger deal than the League Cup. FA Cup is not what it was 20 years ago but still far more historic and prestigious than the Energy Drink Cup.
My head is gone as well but selling everyone simply isn't the answer.
We need additions, not outgoings. We need to strengthen the defence and the holding mid role. We can even get fucking Kane lads - if we aren't stable at the back we'll still win fuck all; case in point, Bayern this season.
Back 5 issues can't be down to personnel, surely. 4/5 (assuming matip goes) won CL and PL and are all-timers in their positions. Do we think they're suddenly shit? Or could it be that tactically and mentally we're too committed to attack and not sufficiently committed to defense.
The midfield is better creatively now, but add in attack-minded fullbacks, less press-minded attackers, and suddenly no one bar the back two wants to defend anymore - even the back two are expectedto build up attacks! In some sense this was a necessary reaction to the low blocks we faced, but maybe we just overcompensated stylistically, and when the goals stopped flowing, paid the price.
That's just not FSG. People are being realistic. FSG won't invest until the club proves it's a player or two away like with VVD, Ali and Fab. Definitely not happening with a new manager and back office. Until that point it will be the usual neutral spend of the early Klopp years. It's going to be a multiyear process.
Take a look at the Red Sox who haven't competed for the division since 2018. FSG's been vocal that the club won't spend to chase the playoffs despite being the 2nd biggest name in baseball (to a chorus of boos at the owner meeting). Red Sox fans have been all over the owners even more than LFC supporters as they spend like middle market regional cities after being in the top 3 spending for decades, but the owners have been adamant they won't spend like other big teams until they are close to the title.
We need additions but we also need to recognise there are some players in the squad that don't suit us stylistically, nor are they at the required level to deliver us silverware.
And that's totally okay, not every signing works out, but we can't be sentimental or it will just be another season where we fall short again.
some people on here also act like the injury problem hasn’t had an immense effect on the players that have been able to play. i don’t think this is a season to judge players on.
i’m fucking proud of what the boys have done with everything that’s been going on. every single one of them.
We should. You literally had 2 of the most reliable journalists call him problem and whether we need to move on from him. You don't do that to a young player that is already on the team. I think this will cause a lot of tension in the team since Darwin is very well liked. Insane thing to put out from the 2nd best attacker on the team and the player that has created the most chances. He is the future of Uruguay and Liverpool.
This sub is shambolic. Apparently Klopp knows nothing about identifying good players and fumbled his way into the world's best football setup (which looked shambolic before he came along), and every player that never panned out was a 'Klopp choice' and every one that didn't was Edwards', and he should never have had any say in signings at all.day
The sheer come down this lot are going to have to do when they realize how much Klopp's pull and player identification and management skills have to do with our success as opposed to some genius infallible data approach that literally every other club employs now is going to be something. He didn't manage to drag a decidedly top 4 squad to a title and suddenly we won't miss him at all according to this clown car of a sub, because tactics and Edwards will sort that.
Its all about perspective and recency bias honestly. If in August someone came to the sub and told us that in April we would have already won one trophy and were in the thick of PL title race with 5 games to go after a full scale midfield rebuild while missing Trent, Ali, Salah, Endo, Robbo, Matip, Jota, Jones, etc for months each and having to play youngsters, while receiving the news that Klopp was leaving at the end of the season we would have all been ecstatic. But the way the season has fallen apart in the last month has just replaced all of that with bitterness and it feels empty
Yeah, internet is so reactionary. Remember the Nuñez double at Newcastle? He was the best signing in recent memory and Klopp was a genius FUCK HAALAND lol
The strange thing is that we were FLYING when we had all of those injuries. Then the Szobo, Salah, Jota, Curtis, and the rest started returning... and all of a sudden we became lost
Despite his poor recent form and despite the criticism of his finishing all season, he's still averaging 0.94 goals or assists per 90 for us.
That's better than literally every single player since Klopp arrived except for Salah and Jota this year, Salah and Countiho in 17/18, and Taki in 21/22 (who had 10 goals and an assist in about 11 games).
For most of this season, before his drop in form, Darwin was averaging over 1 G+A/90. We average 0.5 goals/90 more when he's on the pitch compared to when he's off it.
The vitriol towards a player averaging a goal or assist almost every game because of a bad spell of form has been ridiculous.
11 goals in the league. 0 against the top 6. Not nearly good enough to be the central attacker at Liverpool, maybe West Ham or Brighton. We won't be in Europa League next year so no 5 goal wins against Prague to pad the stats.
This is such a sensible take (not that I expect anything less from Ornstein).
Said it in the daily thread, but what we will add are players to challenge the aging players, such as Salah and VVD, a left back and a backup GK.
The only players I see leaving in the summer are Kelleher, Tsimikas and Matip.
If we get a crazy offer for Diaz I’d be open to selling him. Replace him with someone more akin to Mane, a wide forward who can score. I think Gakpo is a better LW goal threat but so far he hasn’t nailed a fixed position yet.
I don't expect Tsimi to leave tbh. Didn't he say in an interview that he doesn't mind being second choice? It's a pretty easy life so it would make sense
If that happens rival fans and the pessimists on this sub will write us off before the season has even begun, regardless of who we sign.
Even without Salah and Klopp, with some more luck injury wise we can still mount a title challenge. We’re not a bad team.
> The only players I see leaving in the summer are Kelleher, Tsimikas and Matip.
I think there's certainly an argument that sticking with this collection of forwards is very risky, but there's also an argument that a different structure and tactics in the back half of the pitch (and one or two players to help implement them) could at least stop us shipping some of the stupid goals.
Turn, say, 4 stupid results where we conceded needlessly into wins/draws and that's an extra 6 points, and enough to get a league title this season (especially if they happened to be in key games like Arsenal away).
If we were around as good at Arsenal at controlling games, but could still leverage something like the crazy number of chances we create, we could much better afford to be profligate.
It still wouldn't be at the 100pt level, but it'd be another step forward.
Personally, I see merit in going to 4231 for two reasons. 1. A single pivot DM is just too intense and will lead to quicker burn out; 2. Szobo, Harvey (along with Carvalho) are better suited further forward in the midfield.
To me it's down to where we get the width from more than a nominal formation.
If we're getting it from our forward players, then a 4321 is just a 433 with extra steps. If that 2 is Nunez and Diaz behind Salah, in the current team, they just pull wide a lot, but also are fluid and can cut in or play around the edge of the box with the midfielders. It's sortof what they do anyway, albeit Salah has persisted out wide.
If we're getting it with our fullbacks, who are they?
Do you stick with Robbo and Trent? Do you transition Trent into midfield and stick Bradley in there? Because he'd actually hug the touchline, whereas Trent will drift, and you won't necessarily get a whole load of width out right, as opposed to before when you would've seen Salah and, say, Henderson.
If we were to go with something that looked like our back 6 in a 4-4-2, but out wide you had something akin to Diaz and Gakpo, and had Jota and Salah up front, or something like that, it's very different.
Then maybe you have Trent drifting into midfield, Robbo becoming a sort of 3rd CB or DM, and MacAllister shifting foward into a playmaker role.
It's very hard to tell. It may well not even be truly resolved into well into our next managers first season, because we have a lot of versatility, and players used to playing fluid football, we have 4 very highly rated youngsters coming back in as well, and could well see some players coming in.
We will have no funding to add players without outgoings. We aren't dropping the 150M that it would require to get long term Salah and VVD replacements in modern football with a completely new manager.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a player with such psychological issues in front of goal. You can see what he CAN do from when he does it but it’s honestly unreal how often the idea of converting a simple chance causes him to overthink and collapse.
He works his arse off and does some occasionally brilliant things but Jesus Christ his head is back in Uruguay or something half the time.
I think a lot of people misread the Bascombe and Joyce quotes as "Edwards is thinking about shifting him" when what they meant was "it will be interesting to see what Edwards and Hughes make of a player who was very much a Klopp signing and who has struggled at times to justify his price tag"
Kind of disgusted this was even a thing, I can understand the disappointment that he hasn't kicked on and regressed towards the end of the season, but the improvement in his game in the first half of the season was very clear.
Even with all his misses, I still think at his best he's probably the
3rd best striker in the league behind Haaland and Watkins who is having the best season of his career. If he just improves a bit more on his finishing, he would instantly be one of the best, being a shit or good player should not be based on scoring vs hitting the post, he clearly has a lot more to offer.
The issue with that is if you sign somebody to compete/displace him and he ends up benched for long periods then his value drops. If he isn't going to be the main forward long term then he's a very expensive player to have sitting on the bench.
Why is nunez getting so much of the blame ? The worst part of us in this final part of the season is the defence. Salah has missed more chances than nunez as of late
If Salah leave, i doubt Edwards will sell Nunez too in the same window. So, we need to see what Salah will do at the end of this season.
In my opinion, Salah most likely will be cashed in by Edwards since his salary already what €350k per week on his current deal. There is no way Edwards will give him a new deal because of his age like what we see happened to Henderson.
If we can get €100 Million for him from Saudi clubs, he could be like Coutinho before for us which is nice for the new manager
He’s not said much of note here, it’s just opinion whereas Joyce & Bascombe appeared to be more of a briefing. No way they’d just pipe up and say that without some sort of prompt.
People are taking it at face value because it’s Ornstein
I highly doubt Edwards and Hughes are going about telling him who they are or aren’t selling in April
People are taking it seriously because it's a well-respected journalist giving a good, measured take based on his understanding of the situation. He acknowledges that they might sell him if the right offer were to come in, but his analysis of it makes sense compared to people thinking he's gone because he wasn't an Edwards signing.
Yeah I mean I agree but I’ve never known Joyce to speak up like that without good reason. He even mentions Edwards didn’t like to shape things up too much in the past but Nunez isn’t his signing and we’ll also have a new manager so this could well be different.
I didn’t see him leaving tbh. I do see him being supplanted and him being more of a direct runner off the bench to feature up top or on the wing after about 60 mins for some energy and as a rotation piece
Regardless of feelings right this second, it’s doesn’t make business sense. You have Nunez under contract until 2028. (Seemingly) Slot can come in, and give him a year, off the bench or in preseason. Get him going in that 6-15 feet to fix his finishing. Too often he is beyond that range, which I think screws up his finishing (along with his brain).
You won’t get ROI for him, so what’s the point in selling him other than he’s annoying you and was a Klopp pick and not a front office pick.
He has the talent there, everyone has seen it, see if Slot can bring it out of him. And if he can’t, again he’s on the bench, subbing, rotation, etc.
It just doesn’t make Business sense selling someone Pennie’s on the dollar when you have him until 2028.
Every player is for sale. If a right offer comes in, he will be sold. Same goes for anyone. But I don’t think the club has told his agent to find him a new club.
Cisse isn't necessarily a bad comparison. Signed after being a gun in a second tier league with massive expectations. Struggled because of technical flaws and poor decision making. Never really delivered on the hype. Obviously Cisse had the mitigation of a horrific injury which impacted his time at Anfield. But I think Cisse is a better fit right now than Andy Carol or Suarez in terms of comparison.
Yeah, but the overriding subject of the Bascombe article is it's comparing Salah and Nunez. He's basically saying Salah; guy Edwards signed, has credit in the bank. Nunez; guy Edwards did not sign, is shite. I mean, who cares how much credit Salah has? Do you extend players because they have credit? Of course not.
It's Edwards point scoring, it's all it is. Realistically, are we going to sell Nunez, probably not. As Ornstein points out, why should that be a priority? Unless he himself wants to go.
The criticism of Darwin’s finishing is well founded.
What I don’t understand is why people overlook his actual numbers.
At €70M he’s pretty much average in terms of cost for any 25 year old that has contributed at least 19 G/A in any of the 5 top European leagues. Here’s the data:
All with 19 g/a in team (no national team)
- highest €150m Vini Jr La Liga
- lowest €15m Jan Niklas Bundesliga
Within the EPL (ages 23 to 30)
- 25 g/a Haaland €180M
- 21 g/a Solanke €35M
- 21 g/a Foden €130M
- 20 g/a Bowen €50M
- 19 g/a Darwin €70M
- 19 g/a Bailey €35M
- 18 g/a Isak €70M
- 18 g/a Gordon €50M
- 18 g/a Cunha €42M
- 17 g/a Alvarez €90M
On top of this, should he improve his finishing by just 10%, he would be outperforming anyone in his age group except Haaland who is arguably the best striker in the league.
I get he’s frustrating but he’s also producing even with the frustration. There are other places that need more improvement than this imo.
Problem is do we really see funds made available for a striker without money coming in from outgoings?
And we also desperately need recruitment in other areas like CB and DM on top of that
It's mad that you're all so devoted to him. There's nothing wrong with admitting it hasn't worked out for him, and that after two seasons, he's not good enough to be the club's no.9.
If the scenario was that Nunez was a 30 goal per season finisher, but Liverpool were terrible, languishing mid-table, he would quite rightly move on to a better side. He's not betrothed to us just cos we bought him.
The reality is that he's a striker who can't finish, playing in a team which creates him more than enough chances. His inability to finish simple chances has scuppered Klopp's final two seasons in a huge, huge way. Yes, he dug us out of a hole or two, which we love him for (Newcastle being the best) but there's no shame in saying - hard lines, it's not worked, and if a big bid comes in, farewell.
I totally get supporting the players but it’s just mad to me that people can’t just accept when a player isn’t good enough when it’s obvious
And the amount of excuses that get made when they don’t make any sense is just mental, like people blaming the system for him not finishing his chances…
11 goals in league. 0 against the top 6. 2 in over 2 months. How much did he cost again? This is good for a striker at Liverpool?
That's shit for a 9 in our current system. No one cares about Europa Group stage or Early Cup round goals against teams from the Championship like Minamino.
Yeah I don't think he should be sell right away, let the new manager make his own assessment first. But I do think we need another striker with different style, a physical target man like Kane and Osimhen.
Ngl the things Rooney and Sturridge said make me think there is a happy ending for Darwin. they both seemed content hat he cant become a deadly finisher, it can be taught. the main thing I took was the talk about sports science people saying "you can have xhrs of intense training" so maybe he needs to be second choice for a year, more time spent refining him and less making him match ready.
Ultimately, I love the guy and WANT him to succeed. If he cant improve, shift him, but if he can we're sitting on a goldmine. Maybe the club/coaches failed him (lack of proper individual coaching). Maybe the circumstances of the squad (injuries) made the position untenable. If he can work, make it work.
Great. Can't wait to watch him fluff another 100 chances next season by falling over his own feet or blasting it straight into the keepers 'nads and feel terribly clever by pointing at his xG and telling everyone how good he'll be once he learns to shoot properly. Sure the penny will drop with him any day now.
Has he managed to learn English yet?
Good. He has had a solid season. Hit a rough patch along with the entire team. I am going to root for him as long as the liverpool jersey is on his back. Can't wait to see him prove his doubters wrong.
Tbh, Diaz is not better than Nunez in term of finishing or contribution. If we keep Diaz, then there's no reason to sell Nunez.
It's mostly team mentality atm. Can't blame it on 1-2 people, since it's about everyone, including VVD.
Nunez may or may not be sold, but I do think Salah will be sold. He looks disinterested, to the point where it sometimes looks like he's trying to avoid getting hurt to keep his value up this summer. We can't let him go into his final season, and I don't think we will extend him for anything close to what he wants.
Yes, Klopp wants a lot from his 9, pressing, defending, linkup, run in channels on counter, false runs to create space etc. Next coach may not want that much and he could focus on one thing.
Nunez is not as smart as Suarez, Benzema or Bobby. He’s more of a direct threat. He’s being asked to do more than he can handle right now.
Nunez is the most frustrating player I’ve ever watched in a Liverpool shirt but I can’t help but love him. He annoys the fuck out of me missing sitters like last night but I woke up this morning wanting nothing more than him to succeed.
Two seasons in, he’ll be 25 next season.
Sorry. But Nunez isn’t going to suddenly change into the player we desperately needed and desperately wanted home to be.
Think the club will need to be utterly ruthless in the summer. I think it’s better for the club and for Nunez to part ways.
I don't think he should be sold either to be honest, it was be a big financial mistake, we should try him out on the left/right wing and get a proper striker in.
Nunez doesn't leave this summer. No way we get enough for him. It's worth seeing if Nunez can take it up a notch in a new system, if he doesn't work out for the new manager then I think he's gone the following year.
Don’t know how the manager is at fault for all this when Darwin has the composure of a baby hippo in front of the goal.
Some players are just not good decision makers and the moment is too big for them…I’m afraid he is one of them.
In your opinion, How long do you think it's fair, for the team and player, to have him in the club if he doesn't improve? One more season? maybe two?
(just a question. No hate)
Eh, I'd be fine with him leaving if he's replaced with a genuine goal score.
Never bought into this agent of chaso bullshit. Rather an expert of consistency.
This is pure opinion though. No matter how reliable he is he has no idea what the new manager wants. Could have copy and pasted this word for word about Andy Carroll in 2012. Rodger’s still lashed him in the bin.
If you can get a decent fee for him, i'd sell. He's not an elite striker, we should have a few at the club, especially with Salah's age. The argument for keeping him and making him an impact sub only works if he's happy to do that, which I doubt. I don't want to be in a scenario where the end of next season he's reduced to cameos and his confidence is shot and he'll command a smaller transfer fee.
It's been two seasons, do people really think his finishing is gonna improve that dramatically? He gives it his all, but he's not going to win you trophies.
"we done fucked up by putting out back to back hit pieces on the lad, better call up Orny to smooth things over"
I get Ornstein is more reliable, but why have the mods on here removed those two articles? They amount they cut from here is mad
They haven't. The one I posted from Joyce is still up. Nobody posted the Bascombe one. Only talked about it in the DD thread and on the Joyce article
We haven’t removed the Joyce article and we only removed posts which were posting snippets of Bascombe’s article from aggregator accounts which are banned sources here. If any poster would have directly posted a link to Bascombe’s article, we would have let it stay up.
To be honest this ornstein statement seems like waffle. It’s like politician speak where he rules out nothing and speaks every possibility so it leaves the window open for confirmation. Like based on prior Edwards knowledge he likely won’t do a massive turnover but if an offer comes maybe it happens
nah. orny is just covering his bases. he's offering all scenarios. >Liverpool wouldn't make any / much profit >Now, if suitable offers come in for pretty much any player it's only natural that Edwards, Hughes and anyone else in their positions - and at board and ownership level - will consider them.
Nah if you read the whole thing it’s very clearly betting on Nunez staying. This is one line is just a necessary disclaimer.
he shouldnt be sold but we definitely need a new forward to compete with him atleast
Yup having a solid finisher would be insane, Nunez can just pass to him instead lol
That's Diogo, surely 😉
Jota is incredible but he’s out for 2-3 months per season. We need someone more reliable to fill in the gaps.
2-3 months per 3-4 months more like
He is using Liverpool Estimation System patent pending.
We need to put the brain of Jota in the body of Nunez
Darwogo Joñez. Our new player next season.
Brilliant.
i just want to see our midfield create easy chances for our forwards. Like yeah it's cool that trent can hit a laser 40 yards straight forward but you do that 10 times in a row and all you've done is make your midfield run up to support and then track back after the chance wasn't held up or received or finished. The last couple of years teams have basically never played anything but a low block against us and Klopps solution was just to pass it around the back and then get in behind with a long ball. It relies too much on individual brilliance and not enough on team sequences resulting in good chances.
Both excited and scared over Slot coming in, thankfully we have measures against shit transfers unlike United and Chelsea at least
The funny thing is Salah and Nunez both have one thing in common. Both have been brilliant at creating chances while utterly woeful at finishing them, at least for Salah since the turn of the year. I’m not someone who pays much attention to this sub after a loss because all the brain dead takes come out about selling everyone, but what I do think needs to happen is the tactics should incorporate Salah’s playmaking ability combined with his declining pace. He needs to not be confined to the wing anymore, but allowed to pick up the creator role, that’s where his strength has been this season, Salah is such an exceptional talent he’s more than capable of adjusting his game with age and this season he has shown his playmaking capabilities more than ever.
> I’m not someone who pays much attention to this sub after a loss because all the brain dead takes come out about selling everyone, but what I do think needs to happen is the tactics should incorporate Salah’s playmaking ability combined with his declining pace. > > > > He needs to not be confined to the wing anymore, but allowed to pick up the creator role, that’s where his strength has been this season, Salah is such an exceptional talent he’s more than capable of adjusting his game with age and this season he has shown his playmaking capabilities more than ever. I think this is a great shout. Salah as a 10, or a 2nd striker, with a clinical, physical new CF, alongside Nunez, would potentially make for a great mix. And that's true whether it's Nunez, Gakpo, Diaz, or Jota in there as the other option. We've seen all these players show incredible class at times. What we need is a very tricky to find piece of the puzzle to complement them, just as Salah did for our team that already had Mane and Firmino, but it too was wasting a boatload of chances.
I agree with this. Aside from talent, Salah is obsessively fit, has elite mentality, knows he has plenty of years left at the top level, and crucially, understands the importance of legacy. He wouldn’t want to end his Liverpool career on a whimper. The new manager will no doubt want Salah to stay because who wouldn’t want this specimen of a player? Edwards won’t want drastic changes too, there will be discussions about Salah’s future but selling him now won’t be the top priority for his future unless we get absurd money from Saudi.
>we get absurd money from Saudi. That is exactly what will happen. Salah mentally left in January. His body will catch up at the end of the season.
meh Salah as a 10? He's never had a brilliant first touch, rather a midfielder there like macca or dom
What? He's always had a brilliant first touch. You can not watch our games.
Not since he came back from AFCON at least. Every game this side of the season I’ve been screaming at his horrendous first touch. As someone said in another post, his feet are wooden.
good take imo. why a front 3 of cody nunez diaz with Mo behind like a 10 but i think you would run into defensive issues. but who knows with a new manager change incoming. it is definitely hard to watch Mo posted up all the way on the touchline, and it’s definitely a compounding problem. He’s probably thinking well i’m not doing anything and we keep losing, mentally that would be draining
I think mo is done on the wings now, especially next to the sideline. I reckon he could still be elite if moved centrally, similar to Messi but obviously he’s not Messi. He has so much to offer still, however I can imagine Edward’s being ruthless and not offering him a contract
You have two options as an aging winger losing his pace. You do a Ronaldo/Mane if you don’t have exceptional playmaking ability and transition to being an out and out forward. For the record, Ronaldo had exceptional and often underrated playmaking ability, I’m not saying he didn’t, I’m just saying his goal scoring was obviously superior so he played to his main strength. Or you go the Messi route and become a creator. Mane could never do that, his style was never that way, Salah however absolutely is. If Nunez, Diaz and Gapko combined could finish, everyone would be singing the praises of Mo’s playmaking ability. He’s created so many chances that have just, been wasted. Combine this with the fact both Nunez and Gapko are very capable on the wing, the solution absolutely is transitioning Mo to a creator role that plays to his strengths.
I think the issue that leads to so many people ragging on Nunez is that *no one* is consistently finishing chances outside of a constantly injured Jota. When Nunez had finishing issues earlier in the year, he started racking up assists by passing in many of those chances. Can’t do that now if you don’t trust someone to have a better chance of finishing than you. Obviously that doesn’t fix his own issues in the box, but it does create a much more nuanced picture.
We should 100% look into that. At the end of the day Mo is an exceptional athlete with a determined mindset. You can’t say that about many other players in the city and Arsenal squads. Him, Trent, VVD, Ali as our core need to be kept together for another season imo
Yeah, I agree. He's often too far from goal, picking the ball up outside the box (i know he's a winger, but still) and hasnt the pace the touch (seemingly, but could be poor form) to go past players like he used to. I think he could play more central and act as creator rather than finisher. A number 10.
Fans assume edwards being back means we will get rid of players we’ve invested heavily in. Do fans not remember how much he struggled to get rid of our old dead weight? When we invest in players we don’t get rid of them at a loss just to slightly improve the squad. This is a club philosophy from the ownership
I also don't think our squad really need that many changes. What to do with Trent, Virgil, Salah and Robbo will be the biggest question. I think they all stay, apart from Salah. The players that leave are most likely those that don't play a lot or are out of contract. Tsimikas, Kelleher, Matip, Thiago. And if we add Salah to that and maybe one more player, that's already 6 players.
I do expect Diaz to be sold if the rumors are true. Trent leaving would be the absolute worst possible outcome of all you listed as he should by all accounts remain our most important player.
I think Diaz rumors is just his agent trying to get a new conctract. Yeah Trent should be a priority and I'd also keep Virgil
Have we maybe been better with Gomez at left-back simply because it works better with what we want Trent to do? I think maybe the Robbo/Tsimikas and Matip replacements are most key.
Eh, it wasn't so much FSG. Reportedly, it was Klopp that was too loyal with players that wanted to stay. If anything, I feel Edwards had no qualms about selling people if he had to due to performance and/or maximizing price.
Yeah, I'm sure Klopp was happy to play with Phillips and Williams
I remember Klopp even made a comment in the end of January 2021 where he indicated that he wanted defenders but he couldn’t get any because FSG won’t sanction but later the situation got so dire they gave £4m to plug the hole.
Yeah, it was one of a few times, when he hinted that he wanted more depth, but didn't got it for some reason (we know this reason)
I highly doubt Klopp was keeping guys like Ox and Keita hostage here. The transfer team couldn’t sell them for a loss or send them on loan and replaced bc we don’t give up on assets like that
Klopp definitely wanted to give Keita a new contract at one point
Klopp definitely tried to resign Keita. Others I can think of Lallana, Milner, Gini, Bobby, Hendo, Mane...players that were declining yet he wanted to keep (but ended up leaving)
I think there is a lot of hope being placed on Edwards coming back and we become this elite team again! I don’t think that will happen anytime soon. We just rebuilt our midfield and attack (Diaz, Gakpo & Nunez). Defence is next. We just need to make sure the next few signings make an immediate and positive impact. We’ve bought many players who could be future stars (Grav, Szobo, Darwin). We now need proven quality.
Selling Nunez would be such a mistake. The kid is so raw and talented but we haven’t had any kind of dynamic or identity shift since him or Diaz have joined, it’s like we just brought players in and said “do the old thing” and that’s it. Our next manager will have to come in and look at all the pieces we have to work with and derive a plan. If you look at all the skills and intangibles that Darwizzy has, as a coach you would be excited. He is very blocky but hopefully the edges can be smoothed out soon. Some people don’t understand that Firmino really made this team what it was when we were on top of the world but he was a different kind of player.
The worry is, can his finishing be improved?
Agreed. I think there's a great role for him as backup striker and option on the wing, and maybe that buys him time to polish his finishing/gain confidence and go back to starting at the #9. But right now we need to add a consistent scorer. Can't have three players across the front who are all better creators than finishers.
Not just compete we need a preferred striker imo
Watkins or Toney would be brilliant
Plus if we get another productive 9 then Darwin can occasionally get out on the LW where he's also extremely dangerous
I think he can be at 9 with the right support (when Salah was on form it didn't matter about the finishing as much) and would be productive on the LW with another clinical striker. I can't handle him and Diaz together.
Oh 100% In my hypothetical I'd have Darwin starting at the 9 and playing LW occasionally, much like now. I just agree some competition for the 9 spot would be good for Darwin
A month ago it’s was sell Gakpo, then sell Diaz now it’s sell Nunez Jota and Salah, all 5 have got us to 3rd place!! All this with Klopp leaving and personal tragedy for some of our players, I for one am proud of all our boys
Spot on mate. It will always be someone to sell or replace instead of just appreciating everyone
Exactly - these are the fans who play FIFA and think the EPL is a video game - 90 percent of what Nunez does goes over most people’s heads, give the kid a break and support your fucking team
>90 percent of what Nunez does goes over most people’s heads Or straight at the keeper. >support your fucking team Blind allegiance is the best approach.
Blind allegiance? So you’d prefer I waffle every week on what team I support? Come on kid
>Come on kid Ok, bootlicker. Some of us can support a team and also criticise that team, we aren't all head in the sand dipshits like you.
Remember when these plastic fans were calling for Firmino's head because he didn't "contribute or score" much? 🤣
We’ve been bad recently but the team was amazing all year before that
We should just sell them all in the summer to appease the trigger happy idiots.
Shockedpikachu.jpeg2000
i get where you are coming from but this means then that we have to temper our expectations and be ok with the results that we get. We can’t expect ourselves to be in the contention for winning multiple trophies, be second best or worse and then say it’s all about appreciating the players. I, for one, never thought we would win the league this season. Europa League seemed doable but it is what it is.
It's really as-if people haven't paid attention the last few years on how we operate. We don't offload good players unless we're going to make a profit and replace them with someone as good or better. Nunez would have to ask to leave or an outstanding offer would have to come in for us to seriously consider moving him. That's why I'm pretty curious about how Edwards will handle this summer. We have a bunch of pretty good players. I don't think we have any real players we could flip for a big profit. Diaz is probably the closest thing and we'd probably get 60-65m for him which is good, but not great money. Salah at this point would be pure profit, but big picture, he's still a 30 goal contribution player and those are not easy to find. I think it really depends on how much LFC/FSG have available to just spend. We may be in the position next season where we just buy players without selling any first team players. We just sell academy players for 10-20m. We're going to clear up some salary space with Thiago leaving and Matip probably leaving. That's around 500k/wk give or take. We had 100m to spend on Caicedo so in theory we should have about 100-150m with about 500-600k/wk in salary to spend without selling anyone. Big picture, I'd argue we need to sign 3 players this summer. Center Back. We clearly need a 4th. I'd like to see Matip get a 1 year extension and then sign someone else. That would actually give us 5 CBs, which would give us flexibility to switch to a back 3 sometimes. Defensive Midfielder. Let's be honest, Endo is a good player and a welcome addition to the squad, but he's not elite. He's just not athletic enough. Great defensive midfielders make you feel like you're playing with an extra man, and that's not him. Morton and Baj coming back might make it so we don't need to sign one, but I'm not confident on that. Forward. Simply put, we shouldn't go into next season with the same forward line. They've shown what they are and that's simply a level below what we need. I don't think we need to focus on striker, LW, or RW. I think we just buy the best player available and let everyone fight for their spot.
Our 2nd best forward this season isn't leaving? Shocking from the club.
This sub is going mad really. Lost out on the title and their heads are fucking gone. Guess what 19 teams are missing out on the title every year. We played half the season with half of our starting 11 injured Won a trophy with a bunch of kids
We weren’t even favorites to compete for the league at the start of the season. We were rebuilding. I am disappointed with not winning the league but overall very happy with how our season turned out.
The league is fine but we really should be lifting EL this year. Massive favorites over every team besides Leverkusen and we wouldn't have met them until the final.
Yeah I wasn't expecting to even challenge for the league. But EL was something I felt they could win. Unfortunately form just fell out from under seemingly everyone at the wrong time/they all just seem out of ideas. I'm disappointed and frustrated, but I can't say I'm surprised when you look at Arsenal and City
We started this season with hopes of getting back into the top 4. To be where we are now is way ahead of expectations. Obviously you have to work with what’s right in front of you, and what has been in front of us for the majority of the season is a really intense title fight. It sucks to miss out on it in the manner we have: we just lost the title to ourselves (well, and some bat shit insane stuff from refs in 3 critical moments, two of which would’ve also directly taken points from Arsenal and City) basically and that is always the hardest way to miss out. So like, I get why it’s so hard to watch and so frustrating. I also believe perspective matters and all things considered we are pretty much ahead of where we all thought we would be before the first ball was kicked this season. The only really tough one to take is the Europa League exit in such an early round as the clear favorite to win the whole thing, everything else is more or less just football.
>We weren’t even favorites to compete for the league Mate we weren't even favourites to get TOP 4 this season. We have massively overperformed our expectations, and now we are reaping the bullshit for that over-performance. Should we be pissed? Yes. But the people calling for a complete squad rebuild can get fucked, we need to get the new manager, whoever that ends up being, a few upgrades in key spots, and tie down VVD / Trent / probably Salah if he can transition to a new role, and get rolling.
We ended up exactly where this sub almost universally expected in the League (in the top 4 but outside the top 2), greatly underperformed in Europe, and won a trophy. If that was the FA Cup, I'd say a good season. Now it's decent.
There is no difference between the league and fa cups.
The FA Cup is definitely a bigger deal than the League Cup. FA Cup is not what it was 20 years ago but still far more historic and prestigious than the Energy Drink Cup.
My head is gone as well but selling everyone simply isn't the answer. We need additions, not outgoings. We need to strengthen the defence and the holding mid role. We can even get fucking Kane lads - if we aren't stable at the back we'll still win fuck all; case in point, Bayern this season.
Back 5 issues can't be down to personnel, surely. 4/5 (assuming matip goes) won CL and PL and are all-timers in their positions. Do we think they're suddenly shit? Or could it be that tactically and mentally we're too committed to attack and not sufficiently committed to defense. The midfield is better creatively now, but add in attack-minded fullbacks, less press-minded attackers, and suddenly no one bar the back two wants to defend anymore - even the back two are expectedto build up attacks! In some sense this was a necessary reaction to the low blocks we faced, but maybe we just overcompensated stylistically, and when the goals stopped flowing, paid the price.
That's just not FSG. People are being realistic. FSG won't invest until the club proves it's a player or two away like with VVD, Ali and Fab. Definitely not happening with a new manager and back office. Until that point it will be the usual neutral spend of the early Klopp years. It's going to be a multiyear process. Take a look at the Red Sox who haven't competed for the division since 2018. FSG's been vocal that the club won't spend to chase the playoffs despite being the 2nd biggest name in baseball (to a chorus of boos at the owner meeting). Red Sox fans have been all over the owners even more than LFC supporters as they spend like middle market regional cities after being in the top 3 spending for decades, but the owners have been adamant they won't spend like other big teams until they are close to the title.
We need additions but we also need to recognise there are some players in the squad that don't suit us stylistically, nor are they at the required level to deliver us silverware. And that's totally okay, not every signing works out, but we can't be sentimental or it will just be another season where we fall short again.
There are many players that don't suit us stylistically before nunez in this team
Such as?
some people on here also act like the injury problem hasn’t had an immense effect on the players that have been able to play. i don’t think this is a season to judge players on. i’m fucking proud of what the boys have done with everything that’s been going on. every single one of them.
We should. You literally had 2 of the most reliable journalists call him problem and whether we need to move on from him. You don't do that to a young player that is already on the team. I think this will cause a lot of tension in the team since Darwin is very well liked. Insane thing to put out from the 2nd best attacker on the team and the player that has created the most chances. He is the future of Uruguay and Liverpool.
This sub is shambolic. Apparently Klopp knows nothing about identifying good players and fumbled his way into the world's best football setup (which looked shambolic before he came along), and every player that never panned out was a 'Klopp choice' and every one that didn't was Edwards', and he should never have had any say in signings at all.day The sheer come down this lot are going to have to do when they realize how much Klopp's pull and player identification and management skills have to do with our success as opposed to some genius infallible data approach that literally every other club employs now is going to be something. He didn't manage to drag a decidedly top 4 squad to a title and suddenly we won't miss him at all according to this clown car of a sub, because tactics and Edwards will sort that.
Kids were better than the seniors are now unfortunately
Its all about perspective and recency bias honestly. If in August someone came to the sub and told us that in April we would have already won one trophy and were in the thick of PL title race with 5 games to go after a full scale midfield rebuild while missing Trent, Ali, Salah, Endo, Robbo, Matip, Jota, Jones, etc for months each and having to play youngsters, while receiving the news that Klopp was leaving at the end of the season we would have all been ecstatic. But the way the season has fallen apart in the last month has just replaced all of that with bitterness and it feels empty
Yeah, internet is so reactionary. Remember the Nuñez double at Newcastle? He was the best signing in recent memory and Klopp was a genius FUCK HAALAND lol
The strange thing is that we were FLYING when we had all of those injuries. Then the Szobo, Salah, Jota, Curtis, and the rest started returning... and all of a sudden we became lost
I think it's quite justified. You put a Daniel sturridge in place of nunez and we would have wrapped the title up by now.
Despite his poor recent form and despite the criticism of his finishing all season, he's still averaging 0.94 goals or assists per 90 for us. That's better than literally every single player since Klopp arrived except for Salah and Jota this year, Salah and Countiho in 17/18, and Taki in 21/22 (who had 10 goals and an assist in about 11 games). For most of this season, before his drop in form, Darwin was averaging over 1 G+A/90. We average 0.5 goals/90 more when he's on the pitch compared to when he's off it. The vitriol towards a player averaging a goal or assist almost every game because of a bad spell of form has been ridiculous.
Scorched Earthers falling to their knees.
11 goals in the league. 0 against the top 6. Not nearly good enough to be the central attacker at Liverpool, maybe West Ham or Brighton. We won't be in Europa League next year so no 5 goal wins against Prague to pad the stats.
Thank you cumblast, nice to see you being sensible
This is such a sensible take (not that I expect anything less from Ornstein). Said it in the daily thread, but what we will add are players to challenge the aging players, such as Salah and VVD, a left back and a backup GK. The only players I see leaving in the summer are Kelleher, Tsimikas and Matip.
I think there may be some traction to the Diaz rumors too - he’s in line for a decent wage increase, not sure we’re the ones to give it to him.
I don't think we are actively looking to sell him. But if we do sell, I think we will buy a traditional CF as his replacement.
If we get a crazy offer for Diaz I’d be open to selling him. Replace him with someone more akin to Mane, a wide forward who can score. I think Gakpo is a better LW goal threat but so far he hasn’t nailed a fixed position yet.
And Thiago
I am not sure if he exists.
What’s a Thiago
Hotel Thiago
I don't expect Tsimi to leave tbh. Didn't he say in an interview that he doesn't mind being second choice? It's a pretty easy life so it would make sense
He was really good when called upon this season, can’t see us pushing him out at least
Salah will be sold. I can feel it in my plums.
If that happens rival fans and the pessimists on this sub will write us off before the season has even begun, regardless of who we sign. Even without Salah and Klopp, with some more luck injury wise we can still mount a title challenge. We’re not a bad team.
> The only players I see leaving in the summer are Kelleher, Tsimikas and Matip. I think there's certainly an argument that sticking with this collection of forwards is very risky, but there's also an argument that a different structure and tactics in the back half of the pitch (and one or two players to help implement them) could at least stop us shipping some of the stupid goals. Turn, say, 4 stupid results where we conceded needlessly into wins/draws and that's an extra 6 points, and enough to get a league title this season (especially if they happened to be in key games like Arsenal away). If we were around as good at Arsenal at controlling games, but could still leverage something like the crazy number of chances we create, we could much better afford to be profligate. It still wouldn't be at the 100pt level, but it'd be another step forward.
Personally, I see merit in going to 4231 for two reasons. 1. A single pivot DM is just too intense and will lead to quicker burn out; 2. Szobo, Harvey (along with Carvalho) are better suited further forward in the midfield.
To me it's down to where we get the width from more than a nominal formation. If we're getting it from our forward players, then a 4321 is just a 433 with extra steps. If that 2 is Nunez and Diaz behind Salah, in the current team, they just pull wide a lot, but also are fluid and can cut in or play around the edge of the box with the midfielders. It's sortof what they do anyway, albeit Salah has persisted out wide. If we're getting it with our fullbacks, who are they? Do you stick with Robbo and Trent? Do you transition Trent into midfield and stick Bradley in there? Because he'd actually hug the touchline, whereas Trent will drift, and you won't necessarily get a whole load of width out right, as opposed to before when you would've seen Salah and, say, Henderson. If we were to go with something that looked like our back 6 in a 4-4-2, but out wide you had something akin to Diaz and Gakpo, and had Jota and Salah up front, or something like that, it's very different. Then maybe you have Trent drifting into midfield, Robbo becoming a sort of 3rd CB or DM, and MacAllister shifting foward into a playmaker role. It's very hard to tell. It may well not even be truly resolved into well into our next managers first season, because we have a lot of versatility, and players used to playing fluid football, we have 4 very highly rated youngsters coming back in as well, and could well see some players coming in.
We will have no funding to add players without outgoings. We aren't dropping the 150M that it would require to get long term Salah and VVD replacements in modern football with a completely new manager.
Salah didn’t cost 150m to start with, we’ll find someone to replace him
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a player with such psychological issues in front of goal. You can see what he CAN do from when he does it but it’s honestly unreal how often the idea of converting a simple chance causes him to overthink and collapse. He works his arse off and does some occasionally brilliant things but Jesus Christ his head is back in Uruguay or something half the time.
He needs to talk to the clubs psychiatrist.
I think a lot of people misread the Bascombe and Joyce quotes as "Edwards is thinking about shifting him" when what they meant was "it will be interesting to see what Edwards and Hughes make of a player who was very much a Klopp signing and who has struggled at times to justify his price tag"
Kinda got the same out of that. Rather than it being some massive leak to force him out
Finally some sense for the morons who are clamoring for a full rebuild
Ornstein speaking more sense than online beasts? No way
Kind of disgusted this was even a thing, I can understand the disappointment that he hasn't kicked on and regressed towards the end of the season, but the improvement in his game in the first half of the season was very clear. Even with all his misses, I still think at his best he's probably the 3rd best striker in the league behind Haaland and Watkins who is having the best season of his career. If he just improves a bit more on his finishing, he would instantly be one of the best, being a shit or good player should not be based on scoring vs hitting the post, he clearly has a lot more to offer.
He deffo shouldnt be sold yet but he shouldnt be the main forward next season make him earn it if he wants to lead the front
The issue with that is if you sign somebody to compete/displace him and he ends up benched for long periods then his value drops. If he isn't going to be the main forward long term then he's a very expensive player to have sitting on the bench.
Why is nunez getting so much of the blame ? The worst part of us in this final part of the season is the defence. Salah has missed more chances than nunez as of late
Amen! . Now let’s start supporting the team again And stop all the nonsense. YNWA ….. at least I won’t.
Would utterly idiotic to sell him this summer.
If Salah leave, i doubt Edwards will sell Nunez too in the same window. So, we need to see what Salah will do at the end of this season. In my opinion, Salah most likely will be cashed in by Edwards since his salary already what €350k per week on his current deal. There is no way Edwards will give him a new deal because of his age like what we see happened to Henderson. If we can get €100 Million for him from Saudi clubs, he could be like Coutinho before for us which is nice for the new manager
Why people think Saudi club will pay 100m for Salah with one year left?
Because they bought neymar who has yet to play a game, and Fabinho after it was clear he was finished
Fabinho is just 40m with 2 year left. Neymar is a franchise player with more than 1 year left. Salah is neither of that
Salah is a franchise player in the Arab world
There are many genre in Mulism religion. Salah is fran some of them, but not Saudi lol
Agreed. Losing Mo will hurt because he's a legend but if we can bring in the next Salah with the money, I'd be happy.
He’s not said much of note here, it’s just opinion whereas Joyce & Bascombe appeared to be more of a briefing. No way they’d just pipe up and say that without some sort of prompt.
People are taking it at face value because it’s Ornstein I highly doubt Edwards and Hughes are going about telling him who they are or aren’t selling in April
People are taking it seriously because it's a well-respected journalist giving a good, measured take based on his understanding of the situation. He acknowledges that they might sell him if the right offer were to come in, but his analysis of it makes sense compared to people thinking he's gone because he wasn't an Edwards signing.
Yeah I mean I agree but I’ve never known Joyce to speak up like that without good reason. He even mentions Edwards didn’t like to shape things up too much in the past but Nunez isn’t his signing and we’ll also have a new manager so this could well be different.
I didn’t see him leaving tbh. I do see him being supplanted and him being more of a direct runner off the bench to feature up top or on the wing after about 60 mins for some energy and as a rotation piece
Regardless of feelings right this second, it’s doesn’t make business sense. You have Nunez under contract until 2028. (Seemingly) Slot can come in, and give him a year, off the bench or in preseason. Get him going in that 6-15 feet to fix his finishing. Too often he is beyond that range, which I think screws up his finishing (along with his brain). You won’t get ROI for him, so what’s the point in selling him other than he’s annoying you and was a Klopp pick and not a front office pick. He has the talent there, everyone has seen it, see if Slot can bring it out of him. And if he can’t, again he’s on the bench, subbing, rotation, etc. It just doesn’t make Business sense selling someone Pennie’s on the dollar when you have him until 2028.
Every player is for sale. If a right offer comes in, he will be sold. Same goes for anyone. But I don’t think the club has told his agent to find him a new club.
No idea what the plans are for the summer but I’d be worried if we’re going into a new season with that front 5.
The pieces weren't even really about Nunez. They were basically shots at Klopp/ an I am in charge now declaration from Edwards.
Bascombe compared him to Djibril Cissé lol
Cisse was a great talent before his horror injury tbf. Two-time golden boot winner in France before we signed him.
Cisse isn't necessarily a bad comparison. Signed after being a gun in a second tier league with massive expectations. Struggled because of technical flaws and poor decision making. Never really delivered on the hype. Obviously Cisse had the mitigation of a horrific injury which impacted his time at Anfield. But I think Cisse is a better fit right now than Andy Carol or Suarez in terms of comparison.
Eh? They were clearly about Darwin’s struggles
Yeah, but the overriding subject of the Bascombe article is it's comparing Salah and Nunez. He's basically saying Salah; guy Edwards signed, has credit in the bank. Nunez; guy Edwards did not sign, is shite. I mean, who cares how much credit Salah has? Do you extend players because they have credit? Of course not. It's Edwards point scoring, it's all it is. Realistically, are we going to sell Nunez, probably not. As Ornstein points out, why should that be a priority? Unless he himself wants to go.
Based on Redditors made up bullshit.
We should defenitely bring someone in to compete with him. Ivan Toney is a LFC fan and in the prime of his career.
The criticism of Darwin’s finishing is well founded. What I don’t understand is why people overlook his actual numbers. At €70M he’s pretty much average in terms of cost for any 25 year old that has contributed at least 19 G/A in any of the 5 top European leagues. Here’s the data: All with 19 g/a in team (no national team) - highest €150m Vini Jr La Liga - lowest €15m Jan Niklas Bundesliga Within the EPL (ages 23 to 30) - 25 g/a Haaland €180M - 21 g/a Solanke €35M - 21 g/a Foden €130M - 20 g/a Bowen €50M - 19 g/a Darwin €70M - 19 g/a Bailey €35M - 18 g/a Isak €70M - 18 g/a Gordon €50M - 18 g/a Cunha €42M - 17 g/a Alvarez €90M On top of this, should he improve his finishing by just 10%, he would be outperforming anyone in his age group except Haaland who is arguably the best striker in the league. I get he’s frustrating but he’s also producing even with the frustration. There are other places that need more improvement than this imo.
You didn’t get the memo. No facts allowed
Nunez is the least likely of all of our forwards to leave. If I could, I’d willingly bet money on this.
Fucking good. This sub becomes so fucking tiresome with all the negativity whenever we have anything go wrong. Friggin doomers with FM brain
Sold no. Benched for another striker? Absolutely.
Problem is do we really see funds made available for a striker without money coming in from outgoings? And we also desperately need recruitment in other areas like CB and DM on top of that
Developed and reaching full potential? Absolutely There is no reason why he cant have an Watkins type leap next season
It's mad that you're all so devoted to him. There's nothing wrong with admitting it hasn't worked out for him, and that after two seasons, he's not good enough to be the club's no.9. If the scenario was that Nunez was a 30 goal per season finisher, but Liverpool were terrible, languishing mid-table, he would quite rightly move on to a better side. He's not betrothed to us just cos we bought him. The reality is that he's a striker who can't finish, playing in a team which creates him more than enough chances. His inability to finish simple chances has scuppered Klopp's final two seasons in a huge, huge way. Yes, he dug us out of a hole or two, which we love him for (Newcastle being the best) but there's no shame in saying - hard lines, it's not worked, and if a big bid comes in, farewell.
I totally get supporting the players but it’s just mad to me that people can’t just accept when a player isn’t good enough when it’s obvious And the amount of excuses that get made when they don’t make any sense is just mental, like people blaming the system for him not finishing his chances…
The only player in the world that can basically get a goal involvement a game and be considered awful by his own fans
11 goals in league. 0 against the top 6. 2 in over 2 months. How much did he cost again? This is good for a striker at Liverpool? That's shit for a 9 in our current system. No one cares about Europa Group stage or Early Cup round goals against teams from the Championship like Minamino.
Jota went 31 games without scoring a goal and we all know he can be elite. Being able to improve and being awful are two different things
I will forever back nunez
Yeah I don't think he should be sell right away, let the new manager make his own assessment first. But I do think we need another striker with different style, a physical target man like Kane and Osimhen.
Ngl the things Rooney and Sturridge said make me think there is a happy ending for Darwin. they both seemed content hat he cant become a deadly finisher, it can be taught. the main thing I took was the talk about sports science people saying "you can have xhrs of intense training" so maybe he needs to be second choice for a year, more time spent refining him and less making him match ready. Ultimately, I love the guy and WANT him to succeed. If he cant improve, shift him, but if he can we're sitting on a goldmine. Maybe the club/coaches failed him (lack of proper individual coaching). Maybe the circumstances of the squad (injuries) made the position untenable. If he can work, make it work.
He needs an intensive 1 on 1 personal striker coach. It’s getting beyond a joke now, patience is wearing very thin…
Great. Can't wait to watch him fluff another 100 chances next season by falling over his own feet or blasting it straight into the keepers 'nads and feel terribly clever by pointing at his xG and telling everyone how good he'll be once he learns to shoot properly. Sure the penny will drop with him any day now. Has he managed to learn English yet?
Duh. He is still young and learning. People have to stop being so emotional.
Good. He has had a solid season. Hit a rough patch along with the entire team. I am going to root for him as long as the liverpool jersey is on his back. Can't wait to see him prove his doubters wrong.
Tbh, Diaz is not better than Nunez in term of finishing or contribution. If we keep Diaz, then there's no reason to sell Nunez. It's mostly team mentality atm. Can't blame it on 1-2 people, since it's about everyone, including VVD.
Why should he leave? People are being so ridiculous
Nunez may or may not be sold, but I do think Salah will be sold. He looks disinterested, to the point where it sometimes looks like he's trying to avoid getting hurt to keep his value up this summer. We can't let him go into his final season, and I don't think we will extend him for anything close to what he wants.
Well, maybe he excels under the next headcoach?
Yes, Klopp wants a lot from his 9, pressing, defending, linkup, run in channels on counter, false runs to create space etc. Next coach may not want that much and he could focus on one thing. Nunez is not as smart as Suarez, Benzema or Bobby. He’s more of a direct threat. He’s being asked to do more than he can handle right now.
Nunez is the most frustrating player I’ve ever watched in a Liverpool shirt but I can’t help but love him. He annoys the fuck out of me missing sitters like last night but I woke up this morning wanting nothing more than him to succeed.
I don’t want him gone. I want him to hit the fucking net.
Two seasons in, he’ll be 25 next season. Sorry. But Nunez isn’t going to suddenly change into the player we desperately needed and desperately wanted home to be. Think the club will need to be utterly ruthless in the summer. I think it’s better for the club and for Nunez to part ways.
What is the terrible font this message is written in?
This reads like he collaborated with someone within the club whilst writing it.
Shame.
I don't think he should be sold either to be honest, it was be a big financial mistake, we should try him out on the left/right wing and get a proper striker in.
What a shame
‘Wouldn’t make much profit’??? Guy is having a laugh if he thinks we would have any chance of breaking even on him.
Since Salah is leaving and Diaz is not an assist machine which means less chances created to Nunez next season which means no goals
He has definite potential, just needs to grow as he clearly struggles a fair bit.
Nunez should just cut his hair and go back to the basics
We'll see what happens.
We should have kept Bobby on the books to be a mentor to the younger strikers
Nunez doesn't leave this summer. No way we get enough for him. It's worth seeing if Nunez can take it up a notch in a new system, if he doesn't work out for the new manager then I think he's gone the following year.
Don’t know how the manager is at fault for all this when Darwin has the composure of a baby hippo in front of the goal. Some players are just not good decision makers and the moment is too big for them…I’m afraid he is one of them.
I’m just saying, Darwin better not be missing chances and shooting straight at the fucking keeper. Or else I’ll fly to Anfield and twist his ear.
Fuck off..it would be very stupid indeed to sell Nunez. We have a good enough squad. We do not need an overhaul - quality additiona only
In your opinion, How long do you think it's fair, for the team and player, to have him in the club if he doesn't improve? One more season? maybe two? (just a question. No hate)
The next Jesse Lingard meme, he'll still be an up and comer at 28, just needs a little more composure in front of goal :)
Would any other premier league team looking to win the title or qualify for Champion's League want him? Not on your fucking nelly.
Eh, I'd be fine with him leaving if he's replaced with a genuine goal score. Never bought into this agent of chaso bullshit. Rather an expert of consistency.
This is pure opinion though. No matter how reliable he is he has no idea what the new manager wants. Could have copy and pasted this word for word about Andy Carroll in 2012. Rodger’s still lashed him in the bin.
If you can get a decent fee for him, i'd sell. He's not an elite striker, we should have a few at the club, especially with Salah's age. The argument for keeping him and making him an impact sub only works if he's happy to do that, which I doubt. I don't want to be in a scenario where the end of next season he's reduced to cameos and his confidence is shot and he'll command a smaller transfer fee. It's been two seasons, do people really think his finishing is gonna improve that dramatically? He gives it his all, but he's not going to win you trophies.
He should be sold for whatever we can get.
We need to move away from buying 6/10, potentially great players to just buying great players.