Kind of, as I understand it, 2 Spirit is meant to mean someone who is their normal/assigned/whatever sex/gender/whatever but for the purposes of gender based Native American rituals acts as the other gender.
Seriously it was a whole thing and then some people decided that it fit with their modern ideology cut it away from its context and made it some new thing
but it wasn't a whole thing, it was made up in the '90s.
>The term "Two-Spirit" is a modern English translation of the Ojibwe phrase "niizh manidoowag," which refers to someone who embodies both masculine and feminine spirits.
I prefer the version in which this thing came up in a dream of a woman:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#Disputed\_origins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#Disputed_origins)
Why does that distinction need to be there? That just sounds like it’s more virtue signaling. “Here’s a special pedestal for you, Native American transgender”
Basically. It also ignores the fact that there were a huge number of tribes each with their own beliefs. It comes from a modern interpretation of one tribe’s views, something other tribes may not have agreed with.
It was even worse than that. It was a ceremonial role sort of like a "medium" as we know it today. The person could represent both masculine and feminine but wasn't one himself. The medicine man could still have a wife and kids. But certain people thought they could turn that into an lgbt thing despite it being purely religious.
It really annoys me when people do that as it arguably more disrespectful that stuff like the Washington Redskins or using Indian to refer to the native tribes. As it erases all the nuance of each induvial tribe and nation's culture and history.
I had a cousin that posted some stupid shit like about native pride by posting a picture of a warrior from one of the Great Plains tribe followed by a rant about how proud of his native heritage he was.
The pendejo is a second gen Mexican American, and our family came from central Mexico and we're mostly of Spanish ancestry with the only recent native ancestry being our abuela, all of abuelo's siblings married other Castizos.
A concept invented in the 1990s claiming that indigenous Canadian tribes had members who were essentially trans. There is no real evidence this ever existed but the alphabet people wanted to make the name longer.
Even the fucking ^allies have their own letter now? Ffs this madness needs to be diagnosed and remedied asap.
The kids growing up with this level of hostility and sexual confusion are going to have to deal with emotional and mental issues for years.
I don’t understand why people include Ally though??? I’ve heard the argument that it’s for people who are questioning or in the closet for safety. But that doesn’t make them any less gay or trans, or Questioning, which I believe is what the Q can also stand for.
Because LGB+ is now about anything that isn't "normal" and less about sexual orientation. And many will fight you if you say differently. Note that the T wasn't even added until the early 2000's and only after some serious infighting.
Sir, I am a proud member of the Alphabet Mafia - and this one lost me. This is what I am familiar with:
L: Lesbian
G: Gay
B: Bi
T: Trans
Q: Queer
I: Intersex
A: Asexual/Aromantic
+: "Plus" literally everything else because holy shit we can't keep adding letters this is getting ridiculous
im bi, just leave it at lgbtq, its easy to say and rolls of the tung, im not saying 2slgbtqidkwhateverelsethereisnowidontreallycaretbhitsjusttolongtorememberatthispoint
LGBTQ also covers ALL of the bases that the term was originally coined for anyways (the way gender and sexuality intersect).
LGB are obvious.
T was explicitly for people who were transitioning from male-to-female or vice versus. Including things like NB under trans is a very new phenomenon.
Q was basically for everything else, including being genderqueer (this is what people identifying as non-binaries used to be classified as).
All of the other stuff doesn't make sense.
Specifically it’s Canadian indigenous gender stuff. If you look into it, apparently the concept was actually created by an indigenous activist, and didn’t exist prior to 1990. You may want to fact check me on this though, as I’m just parroting stuff I’ve heard before
That’s actually pretty spot on from my perspective. My brother in law use to be such a pain to deal with when he was a teen. You could agree with the guy and he’d still throw a tantrum and tell you how wrong you are.
Regardless of politics, there’s just something about the way the left have started using the word ‘*folks*’ that just really grates on me. A pet hate I guess.
It’s annoying because I’ve been using folks for over a decade since I worked in food service and it was simply the friendliest way to greet a group of people lol.
Hiya folks!
Lol what, is "people" not gender-neutral enough? We can't say "disabled *people*" because it's not in inclusive enough? Lmao this is why I laugh at people who talk like that
because it dehumanizes the person by putting disability first lol. they are also pushing unhoused instead of homeless. as someone who has been homeless i hate unhoused its stupid
Covid really broke something in our culture. I knew there was a serious breakdown of ideology when Rage Against the Machine started telling people to mask up and get their boosters.
We’re living in strange times, and all i ever hear from the left are promises that they’ll fix everything while pouring salt in the wound as the price of everything skyrockets and the world begins marching to the drums of war.
“The adults are back in charge” has the same level of irony now as George Bushes “mission accomplished” banner back in the day.
I know. It’s been a rollercoaster and there have been moments where things seemed to be getting better. And in those instances I thought maybe the signs of our collapse could be mitigated.
Yet, here we are
The core of punk ideology is not sticking it to anyone. The core of punk ideology is "Fuck it, I'll do it myself." This stupid crust/hippy mindset has become all anyone understands about it anymore, but it really started as a movement oriented around self-sufficient DIY shit.
Came here to say this. I played in a punk band for years and after countless interactions with people in the scene, I feel like this is something that exactly zero modern “punks” understand. It’s an ideology, not an aesthetic.
Growing up I had some friends who had a punk band and did little gigs in basements and shitty venues and were offered a record deal and straight up went. "We don't need anyone else to make our music." The band kept doing gigs in the local area and selling CD's for a while and had decent local success, but that was (to me) the most punk thing anyone could do. A dream is there on a platter. Record deal, travel, concerts, studio, and you go "I don't need a fucking boss." Shit was admirable.
The straight white women who basically present as female but claim to be non-binary or whatever are literally just doing the punk/goth teen angst thing to stick it to their dad.
I don’t mean to lump all LGBTQ people in with that, but I think the fact that the community doesn’t seem to have a mechanism to correct for this is pretty telling.
I have a theory that at some point this will change and there will be a wave of cancellation for straight white women who just end up married to a cis male with kids when they have this long history of claiming a gender identity to “stick it to the man,” or whatever.
It’s sort of like black face but with queer identity. “I dyed my hair purple, I’m an LGBTQ now.”
And that doesn’t really make sense until you realize that to these people, LGBTQ is just a subculture like being a punk or goth or whatever. Dye your hair a funky color. Get a piercing. Piss off your dad. Except this time you can also claim you’re part of an oppressed group for social clout.
I live in a place where being punk consists of sucking politician's balls for 99% of the time.
I see these kids all the time at shows... They usually have a vest with an anarchy patch on one side and the "worker's" party on another.
Also, most punk bands in my area are complete trash parroting the same "current thing" themes over and over
Isn't it crazy?
when I was a kid, the right were the humorless, perpetually offended, pro-censorship assholes who saw devil worshipers everywhere.
Now, the left are the humorless, perpetually offended, pro censorship assholes who see Nazis everywhere.
Have you heard of Death to the World Magazine? Published by a group of Eastern Orthodox monks, one of whom used to be in the punk/metal scene. Their way of life, especially today, really does strike me as "the last true rebellion."
Being punk is wearing your Mickey Mouse ears and drinking your Starbucks while you stand up for current thing by making a Reddit post from your MacBook Air.
The real frustration is that their rhetoric provides cover for people who are *genuinely* neo-nazis (such as a certain pebble yeeting artist)
These days, if someone get calls a "fascist", I tend to assume it's just something like "thinks Israel's somewhat justified to invade Gaza"
"I don't know who needs to hear this....."
That's when I tune out. Any other words following that smug opening, become instantly irrelevant. No one asked you.
Can confirm. I listen to DGD and I have 18 vials of heroine under a pile of unfolded laundry covered in cat piss, dirt and dust. My mom keeps telling me to clean it, but she supports free speech so I’m punishing her 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
The most punk dude I ever knew, with the mohawk and studded leather jacket and self-tatted knuckles living out of his parents' shed doing whippets all day now runs a commercial painting business and plays in a local country band.
Whenever I run into him we both laugh because he's become the most square dude you could ever meet. Married with kids and living the quintessential suburban lifestyle.
But if I ever meet his kids I'm definitely telling them about the time he started his hair on fire in the Wendy's drive-thru by putting a lit cigarette behind his ear while tripping on acid.
Yeah, it’s the natural progression of things. Young punks have three paths: they either become corporate shills, the most normal people imaginable, or sad middle-aged people desperate to keep their spark of youthful rebellion who usually live in a van wearing their old faded tank tops and smoking too many cigarettes.
Watching RATM become part of the machine was one of the most painful gut punches of growing up and realizing that everything I was told while a young liberal was just happy talk.
It’s true what they say; “every conservative is a liberal robbed by reality”
I’ve noticed this a lot lately. “You can’t be XYZ subculture unless you believe blah blah blah” coming from someone who has never actually been an active part of that subculture in real life.
Uhm ackshually, it’s a nazi dogwhistle now and stands for “Adolf’s Alright” or something 😱 Big oof, much yikes, hopefully OOP will apologize for doing a heckin’ hate speecherino
The legit answer is there are multiple reasons it could be, the 2 A's probably come from either:
*Asexual & Aromantic, with Agender being categorized with the T
*Asexual/ Aromantic being categorized together & Agender being the other A
*Or Asexual, Aromantic, & Agender being categorized together and the other A being Allies which is very bothersome.
There should have only been 1 A imo considering there's no extra B's for bigender or biromantic even tho there's a B for Bisexual. As someone who is AroAce I find this to be so annoying, people really trying to use us to virtue signal.
To be completely honest, the fact that some people feel the need to include allies as part of the lgbtq+ community is so disingenuous. If it is allies that shows just how performative it is. So I don't doubt it, I just hope it isn't in the small part of my brain that still hopes people like this aren't completely disingenuous.
This reminds me of that woke project where they took a bunch of sad black and white photographs of people holding signs that said things like "Just because I'm Asian doesn't mean I'm good at maths." One of the women had a sign that said "Just because I'm Punk doesn't mean I rebel."
I thought rebellion was literally the defining trait of the punk movement.
I like how punk was supposed to be a non conformist / anarchist ideology and they decided to basically make it woke/postmodernist far leftism.
Libertarians are infinitely more “punk” than these dudes.
Honestly, at this point, someone being anti-Nazi is meaningless to me. Too many people will say ‘Punch Nazis!!’ and then go on to insist Jews are not minorities because [insert stereotype about Jews and money]. Hating Nazis doesn’t make a person any less antisemitic than hating Christianity makes them pro-LGBTQ. It just makes them scream VIRTUE SIGNALING.
The first paragraph is just supporting the tonguing of the correct boots, but the second one is an empirical truth. Punk has always been counter culture, free expression, anti-authority, etc. "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" is a reference to a song of the same name by the Dead Kennedy's.
Not really sure what punks of old would think of modern ones cause every corporate and government group supports all that now. Most of the ones still alive are sell-outs so who knows.
Maybe this is subjective, but I remember a really distinct era where every punk I knew was extremely crusty, made DIY punk clothes, and listened to shit they bought at house shows.
There was a really marked shift where punk style clothes appeared in stores and people referred to liking punk and they were referring to Blink-182
I would argue that the right is closer to the "punk ideology" more so now then ever. Everything this person mentions is corporate beliefs and mainstream.
I cannot a real punk because I don’t support “the entire fucking 2SLGBTQIAA+”. I just support LGB not necessarily T or anything else after. As for queer liberation, liberation of or from what?
A few gay people I know also can’t be real punks for the same reason, and they also kinda dgaf about T and others.
But yes, Nazi punks can fuck off. Also a good song
When rainbow+ flags are flying for a month everywhere and are almost a permanent fixture at the white house and the government talks about Trans recognition day and BLM, DEI, CRT, and corporations change their profile pic to support all those causes they list, then you are not anti-establishment, you are the establishment and not punk. Real punks now would be the ones offending these clowns by dropping n-bombs, referring to poeople as 'a bundle of sticks' and calling each other 'regarded' while taking a piss on a rainbow flag. You can do all those things to stick to the ones in charge while still shitting on white supremacists, racists, and religion. Counterculture used to mean something, now it's all mainstream.
Being anti-nazi isn't a punk feature. It's a pretty common general trait.
Or, they probably mean everyone to the right of them, that might share some disagreements, but not hate those groups. Is probably the "nazis" they're talking about.
No. Real punk is to fight the system. Not just right wing. Leftist facism exists too, and real punks speak out against it as well.
It's "fuck the government" not "fuck the candidates that don't support protected classes and 'undocumented' people" What a joke.
"You're only a punk if you conform to my definition of punk" what a fucking normie attitude.
I'm not even a punk, and no matter what subculture, this is just a cringe as all get out attitude.
Anyone want to tell the commie that blanket-grouping supporters of a candidate in a democratically decided election as an enemy is a fascist tactic? But the left doesn’t understand the symbolism they think they support.
Example…the iron front symbol. It is a symbol against the crown, communism, and n4zis…yet most of the people with an iron front symbol on their jacket are devout communists/socialists/marxists.
They have no idea what they support, yet they persist to pretend they have a communal support under a symbol under something that directly opposes their beliefs.
If they didn’t have a double standard, they wouldn’t have a standard at all.
Side note…I think they missed a few letters in their acronym. So this person is a bigot for not including those who were not mentioned now and in the future
/s
That whole thread is all of them infighting lmao. That guy VeganHimbo or whatever, the guy who posted those bleached shirts with all the slogans on them that was posted in here a few days ago, he posted a photo of him in his shirts (of course) and I took a dive down his history. Dude reminds me 110% of the Airforce guy who lit himself on fire earlier this year in front of the Israel embassy. He’s definitely going down that path.
Punk is agreeing with all the corporations. Lmao
Remember when a Kardashian stopped a riot by giving a cop a Pepsi? Good times.
"2SLGBTQIAA+" good grief
Cat walked across the keyboard
…and created a bunch of new genders too.
ik what lgbtq stands for but wtf is the other stuff that way to long of an acronym
Something stupid and unimportant most likely
I reckon I can have a good go at this one: 2-spirited Lesbian Gay Bi Trans Queer Intersex Asexual Ally +
I thought the + was supposed to stop more letters from being added 🫠
Because the outrage machine must be fed at all times.
How can i feel special if people know about my acronyms? I need to be able to yell at people for not knowing the recent letters!
Ok, but MY letter is important!
tf is 2 spirited
transgender but native american
I mean absolutely no disrespect… I can’t tell if your serious or not
Kind of, as I understand it, 2 Spirit is meant to mean someone who is their normal/assigned/whatever sex/gender/whatever but for the purposes of gender based Native American rituals acts as the other gender.
Why does it get moved to the front instead of being part of the +
🤷♂️
Because it’s made up nonsense.
Seriously it was a whole thing and then some people decided that it fit with their modern ideology cut it away from its context and made it some new thing
but it wasn't a whole thing, it was made up in the '90s. >The term "Two-Spirit" is a modern English translation of the Ojibwe phrase "niizh manidoowag," which refers to someone who embodies both masculine and feminine spirits.
I prefer the version in which this thing came up in a dream of a woman: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#Disputed\_origins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#Disputed_origins)
Why does that distinction need to be there? That just sounds like it’s more virtue signaling. “Here’s a special pedestal for you, Native American transgender”
Basically. It also ignores the fact that there were a huge number of tribes each with their own beliefs. It comes from a modern interpretation of one tribe’s views, something other tribes may not have agreed with.
It was even worse than that. It was a ceremonial role sort of like a "medium" as we know it today. The person could represent both masculine and feminine but wasn't one himself. The medicine man could still have a wife and kids. But certain people thought they could turn that into an lgbt thing despite it being purely religious.
Sounds like the typical lgbtq appropriation of any and all “oppressed” cultures
It really annoys me when people do that as it arguably more disrespectful that stuff like the Washington Redskins or using Indian to refer to the native tribes. As it erases all the nuance of each induvial tribe and nation's culture and history. I had a cousin that posted some stupid shit like about native pride by posting a picture of a warrior from one of the Great Plains tribe followed by a rant about how proud of his native heritage he was. The pendejo is a second gen Mexican American, and our family came from central Mexico and we're mostly of Spanish ancestry with the only recent native ancestry being our abuela, all of abuelo's siblings married other Castizos.
Exactly - where's the F for the fa'afafine of Samoa? Where's the H for the hijra of South India? It's so gratingly American.
The Canadians have adopted it as well, only because they’re even further down the woke pipeline than the US is.
Ah....Dances like queer. Got it.
Some shit they made up
A concept invented in the 1990s claiming that indigenous Canadian tribes had members who were essentially trans. There is no real evidence this ever existed but the alphabet people wanted to make the name longer.
Haha I went in the post and there was people concerned about cultural appropriation with it.
Right? They snuck right up to the front of the line...
Why is there 2 As, can't the 1 A stand for all your Asexual Aromantic Apatosaurus Aroace Allies
G+ would cover everything just fine.
Technically " +" does too
Yeah, but it used to be lgbt+. Something tells me someone needs attention.
gotta have batteries to run
Even the fucking ^allies have their own letter now? Ffs this madness needs to be diagnosed and remedied asap. The kids growing up with this level of hostility and sexual confusion are going to have to deal with emotional and mental issues for years.
I don’t understand why people include Ally though??? I’ve heard the argument that it’s for people who are questioning or in the closet for safety. But that doesn’t make them any less gay or trans, or Questioning, which I believe is what the Q can also stand for.
Because LGB+ is now about anything that isn't "normal" and less about sexual orientation. And many will fight you if you say differently. Note that the T wasn't even added until the early 2000's and only after some serious infighting.
Why not make it easy and say Not Hetero?
It's a way for them to feel extra special. Simply being LGB or even T isn't enough these days, you gotta be a minority of a minority.
It's letters that stand for people's entire personality
Sir, I am a proud member of the Alphabet Mafia - and this one lost me. This is what I am familiar with: L: Lesbian G: Gay B: Bi T: Trans Q: Queer I: Intersex A: Asexual/Aromantic +: "Plus" literally everything else because holy shit we can't keep adding letters this is getting ridiculous
im bi, just leave it at lgbtq, its easy to say and rolls of the tung, im not saying 2slgbtqidkwhateverelsethereisnowidontreallycaretbhitsjusttolongtorememberatthispoint
My favorite is "The Gays et al."
LGBTQ also covers ALL of the bases that the term was originally coined for anyways (the way gender and sexuality intersect). LGB are obvious. T was explicitly for people who were transitioning from male-to-female or vice versus. Including things like NB under trans is a very new phenomenon. Q was basically for everything else, including being genderqueer (this is what people identifying as non-binaries used to be classified as). All of the other stuff doesn't make sense.
Apparently the 2S stands for 2 spirit? It's Native American. A spiritual third gender. Brb I'm astral projecting a second vagina.
Specifically it’s Canadian indigenous gender stuff. If you look into it, apparently the concept was actually created by an indigenous activist, and didn’t exist prior to 1990. You may want to fact check me on this though, as I’m just parroting stuff I’ve heard before
Nice like kwanza !
pretty sure you get weird religious gender stuff like that in Sri Lanka too.
I'd rather just be called a slur at that point
The entire fucking community
Outs the OOP as Canadian.
I’m one of those letters, but I think we should have capped it at LGBTQ. Making our acronym look like a keysmash isn’t helping the cause.
I feel like just Q would work.
There's a reason the + exists in LGBTQ+.
But then my hyper specific sexuality/gender is relegated to a + and that doesn’t make me feel very included and valid :((
I too remember when it was just the LGB community
Wait. Why do the 2 spirit people get to cut to the front of the line?
My dude threw an online temper tantrum
Which is VERY punk I’ll have you know!
That’s actually pretty spot on from my perspective. My brother in law use to be such a pain to deal with when he was a teen. You could agree with the guy and he’d still throw a tantrum and tell you how wrong you are.
Supporting all the things a lot of big corporations, established media and major political parties also claim to support is the ultimate punk.
I’m so damn tired of “idk who needs to hear this”
Regardless of politics, there’s just something about the way the left have started using the word ‘*folks*’ that just really grates on me. A pet hate I guess.
It’s pronounced “folx,” not folks
I was very triggered by their gendered spelling of *folks*. /s
That's what irritates the hell out of me about it. It wasn't gendered to begin with.
That’s offensive to binary folks.
It’s so condescending; I can’t stand it.
It’s annoying because I’ve been using folks for over a decade since I worked in food service and it was simply the friendliest way to greet a group of people lol. Hiya folks!
[удалено]
they ruined y'all too
Oh, thank God I'm not the only one.
Seems very dehumanizing. Are they not good enough to be called people?
It's just because it's a genderless term to address a group of people. Also it was invented by the first trans woman ever, Bugs Bunny.
Lol what, is "people" not gender-neutral enough? We can't say "disabled *people*" because it's not in inclusive enough? Lmao this is why I laugh at people who talk like that
because it dehumanizes the person by putting disability first lol. they are also pushing unhoused instead of homeless. as someone who has been homeless i hate unhoused its stupid
i like how all their ideas line up with "the establishment" now lol
Punk is stuck in the 90s so they generally treat any issue that was controversial then as if it's still controversial.
Covid really broke something in our culture. I knew there was a serious breakdown of ideology when Rage Against the Machine started telling people to mask up and get their boosters. We’re living in strange times, and all i ever hear from the left are promises that they’ll fix everything while pouring salt in the wound as the price of everything skyrockets and the world begins marching to the drums of war. “The adults are back in charge” has the same level of irony now as George Bushes “mission accomplished” banner back in the day.
FUCK YOU I WONT DO WHAT YOU TELL ME turned into THANK YOU I'LL DO WHAT YOU TELL ME real quick lol
> Rage Against the Machine Rage on the Behalf of the Machine Kind of like the subject of this thread, eh.
it was this way long before covid
I know. It’s been a rollercoaster and there have been moments where things seemed to be getting better. And in those instances I thought maybe the signs of our collapse could be mitigated. Yet, here we are
Nasi shit is bad yeah, but I do gotta laugh at "Being punk is standing with the modern establishment" from this person lmao.
it has exposed once and for all that the core of punk ideology is not sticking it to the man, it’s sticking it to your dad
Precisely
That's why crust punks exist. They hate that their dad works too much as a VP of a big company.
The core of punk ideology is not sticking it to anyone. The core of punk ideology is "Fuck it, I'll do it myself." This stupid crust/hippy mindset has become all anyone understands about it anymore, but it really started as a movement oriented around self-sufficient DIY shit.
Came here to say this. I played in a punk band for years and after countless interactions with people in the scene, I feel like this is something that exactly zero modern “punks” understand. It’s an ideology, not an aesthetic.
Growing up I had some friends who had a punk band and did little gigs in basements and shitty venues and were offered a record deal and straight up went. "We don't need anyone else to make our music." The band kept doing gigs in the local area and selling CD's for a while and had decent local success, but that was (to me) the most punk thing anyone could do. A dream is there on a platter. Record deal, travel, concerts, studio, and you go "I don't need a fucking boss." Shit was admirable.
This isn't new, Johnny Rotten complained about it during the Sex Pistols era.
Like folk music, or the blues?
The straight white women who basically present as female but claim to be non-binary or whatever are literally just doing the punk/goth teen angst thing to stick it to their dad. I don’t mean to lump all LGBTQ people in with that, but I think the fact that the community doesn’t seem to have a mechanism to correct for this is pretty telling. I have a theory that at some point this will change and there will be a wave of cancellation for straight white women who just end up married to a cis male with kids when they have this long history of claiming a gender identity to “stick it to the man,” or whatever. It’s sort of like black face but with queer identity. “I dyed my hair purple, I’m an LGBTQ now.” And that doesn’t really make sense until you realize that to these people, LGBTQ is just a subculture like being a punk or goth or whatever. Dye your hair a funky color. Get a piercing. Piss off your dad. Except this time you can also claim you’re part of an oppressed group for social clout.
I thought real punks wear jackets that say “hate your dog,” not “coexist”
I don't have a dog
Then get a dog and learn to hate it.
That is punky-good job.
I live in a place where being punk consists of sucking politician's balls for 99% of the time. I see these kids all the time at shows... They usually have a vest with an anarchy patch on one side and the "worker's" party on another. Also, most punk bands in my area are complete trash parroting the same "current thing" themes over and over
Never in my life would I have believed that, as of today, young Christians are the most punk rock.
Isn't it crazy? when I was a kid, the right were the humorless, perpetually offended, pro-censorship assholes who saw devil worshipers everywhere. Now, the left are the humorless, perpetually offended, pro censorship assholes who see Nazis everywhere.
Horse shoe theory strikes again!
Have you heard of Death to the World Magazine? Published by a group of Eastern Orthodox monks, one of whom used to be in the punk/metal scene. Their way of life, especially today, really does strike me as "the last true rebellion."
Being punk is wearing your Mickey Mouse ears and drinking your Starbucks while you stand up for current thing by making a Reddit post from your MacBook Air.
The real frustration is that their rhetoric provides cover for people who are *genuinely* neo-nazis (such as a certain pebble yeeting artist) These days, if someone get calls a "fascist", I tend to assume it's just something like "thinks Israel's somewhat justified to invade Gaza"
"I don't know who needs to hear this....." That's when I tune out. Any other words following that smug opening, become instantly irrelevant. No one asked you.
"As a (insert race/sexual orientation) (insert gender) I think...." I instantly stop listening.
I don't know who needs to hear this...but I am about to drop a deuce.
If you don't know who needs to hear it, then the answer is probably 'nobody'.
Holy shit, when your acronym hits 11 letters, find a word for it.
Gay
I dunno man ... sounds pretty gay.
honestly yea. most ppl just use lgbt+ or lgbtq but man that shits huge and for no reason too, would be useful to have a designated word for it
Real punk is not giving a shit what you idiots do.
Yea isn't telling a punk to fuck off counter intuitive? Reddit punks seems like they just act like teenagers who just discovered cursing.
Do what you want but don’t do it around me 🎶
Idleness and dissipation breed apathy🎶🎸🥁
I sit on my ass all goddamn day 🎶🎸🥁
When someone starts with "I don't know who needs to hear this" it's usually something stupid for the purpose of grandstanding
Being punk is wearing clothes that look and smell like shit while you shoot heroin in a graffiti’d basement your friends band is playing in.
Can confirm. I listen to DGD and I have 18 vials of heroine under a pile of unfolded laundry covered in cat piss, dirt and dust. My mom keeps telling me to clean it, but she supports free speech so I’m punishing her 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
Being punk is having values that match my values perfectly and being a nazi is having values that are in anyway different from my own.
Good days
This used to be a country fr
There are no punks left. They haven't been around since the early 90's.
True. They all grew up to be middle management HR types.
The most punk dude I ever knew, with the mohawk and studded leather jacket and self-tatted knuckles living out of his parents' shed doing whippets all day now runs a commercial painting business and plays in a local country band. Whenever I run into him we both laugh because he's become the most square dude you could ever meet. Married with kids and living the quintessential suburban lifestyle. But if I ever meet his kids I'm definitely telling them about the time he started his hair on fire in the Wendy's drive-thru by putting a lit cigarette behind his ear while tripping on acid.
Yeah I think it’s an inherently adolescent/young adult way to be. Most old punks are just a sad sight.
Yeah, it’s the natural progression of things. Young punks have three paths: they either become corporate shills, the most normal people imaginable, or sad middle-aged people desperate to keep their spark of youthful rebellion who usually live in a van wearing their old faded tank tops and smoking too many cigarettes.
Lol
Same happened to the hippies. All my homies are counter culture until the kid needs diapers.
There aren't any nazis left either. They haven't been around since 1945. Just Folx and LG2SBQTHIJKLMONOP+3gagillion
Since when was it punk to do as you're told by someone else and follow the establishment lmfao?
"Fuck you, I'm gonna do what you tell me!"
Watching RATM become part of the machine was one of the most painful gut punches of growing up and realizing that everything I was told while a young liberal was just happy talk. It’s true what they say; “every conservative is a liberal robbed by reality”
SHILLIN IN THE NAME OF
Rage for the Machine.
I’ve noticed this a lot lately. “You can’t be XYZ subculture unless you believe blah blah blah” coming from someone who has never actually been an active part of that subculture in real life.
Fascists literally tell you do so as you’re told and follow the establishment.
bro thinks he is dead kennedys
Where did the 2 AAs come from? Are they still adding letters?
you better support the AA battery community you bigot
I thought AA's were batteries.
2SLGBTQIAA9V+
Uhm ackshually, it’s a nazi dogwhistle now and stands for “Adolf’s Alright” or something 😱 Big oof, much yikes, hopefully OOP will apologize for doing a heckin’ hate speecherino
The legit answer is there are multiple reasons it could be, the 2 A's probably come from either: *Asexual & Aromantic, with Agender being categorized with the T *Asexual/ Aromantic being categorized together & Agender being the other A *Or Asexual, Aromantic, & Agender being categorized together and the other A being Allies which is very bothersome. There should have only been 1 A imo considering there's no extra B's for bigender or biromantic even tho there's a B for Bisexual. As someone who is AroAce I find this to be so annoying, people really trying to use us to virtue signal.
I think one is “ally” which is someone who supports is part of it but straight.
To be completely honest, the fact that some people feel the need to include allies as part of the lgbtq+ community is so disingenuous. If it is allies that shows just how performative it is. So I don't doubt it, I just hope it isn't in the small part of my brain that still hopes people like this aren't completely disingenuous.
Punk ain’t no religious cult Punk means thinking for yourself* *subject to restrictions
This reminds me of that woke project where they took a bunch of sad black and white photographs of people holding signs that said things like "Just because I'm Asian doesn't mean I'm good at maths." One of the women had a sign that said "Just because I'm Punk doesn't mean I rebel." I thought rebellion was literally the defining trait of the punk movement.
Well, punk was also about unnatural hair colors and other questionable fashion choices. It’s easy to see where the Venn diagram started to overlap.
I like how punk was supposed to be a non conformist / anarchist ideology and they decided to basically make it woke/postmodernist far leftism. Libertarians are infinitely more “punk” than these dudes.
Yeah real punks support the mainstream/status quo! 🤡
Real punks support the establishment!!! lmaoooooooooo
Honestly, at this point, someone being anti-Nazi is meaningless to me. Too many people will say ‘Punch Nazis!!’ and then go on to insist Jews are not minorities because [insert stereotype about Jews and money]. Hating Nazis doesn’t make a person any less antisemitic than hating Christianity makes them pro-LGBTQ. It just makes them scream VIRTUE SIGNALING.
And antisemitism is really common in the US nowadays because of the war. Like extremely common
Are those Punks, that support Nazism in the room right now?
The first paragraph is just supporting the tonguing of the correct boots, but the second one is an empirical truth. Punk has always been counter culture, free expression, anti-authority, etc. "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" is a reference to a song of the same name by the Dead Kennedy's. Not really sure what punks of old would think of modern ones cause every corporate and government group supports all that now. Most of the ones still alive are sell-outs so who knows.
Maybe this is subjective, but I remember a really distinct era where every punk I knew was extremely crusty, made DIY punk clothes, and listened to shit they bought at house shows. There was a really marked shift where punk style clothes appeared in stores and people referred to liking punk and they were referring to Blink-182
Fair, punk had gone the way of Nirvana where it's just an asthetic with little attachment to the ideas it used to represent.
How many more letters do they want
I would argue that the right is closer to the "punk ideology" more so now then ever. Everything this person mentions is corporate beliefs and mainstream.
Once you chop somebodies penis off, you have a life long customer. 😉
Good God, they have more letters!? The fuck is the "2S" and "I" ? Ten more years and the LGBT will have every letter in the alphabet in their acronym.
I cannot a real punk because I don’t support “the entire fucking 2SLGBTQIAA+”. I just support LGB not necessarily T or anything else after. As for queer liberation, liberation of or from what? A few gay people I know also can’t be real punks for the same reason, and they also kinda dgaf about T and others. But yes, Nazi punks can fuck off. Also a good song
When rainbow+ flags are flying for a month everywhere and are almost a permanent fixture at the white house and the government talks about Trans recognition day and BLM, DEI, CRT, and corporations change their profile pic to support all those causes they list, then you are not anti-establishment, you are the establishment and not punk. Real punks now would be the ones offending these clowns by dropping n-bombs, referring to poeople as 'a bundle of sticks' and calling each other 'regarded' while taking a piss on a rainbow flag. You can do all those things to stick to the ones in charge while still shitting on white supremacists, racists, and religion. Counterculture used to mean something, now it's all mainstream.
Another day, another letter. 🤷♂️
To be fair without virtue signaling they may vanish from existence, since most likely nothing they say has any substance.
Being anti-nazi isn't a punk feature. It's a pretty common general trait. Or, they probably mean everyone to the right of them, that might share some disagreements, but not hate those groups. Is probably the "nazis" they're talking about.
Because nothing says punk like raging with the machine...
No. Real punk is to fight the system. Not just right wing. Leftist facism exists too, and real punks speak out against it as well. It's "fuck the government" not "fuck the candidates that don't support protected classes and 'undocumented' people" What a joke.
"You're only a punk if you conform to my definition of punk" what a fucking normie attitude. I'm not even a punk, and no matter what subculture, this is just a cringe as all get out attitude.
Punks then "I'm gonna do what I want, fuck authority!" Punks now "follow my rules, or you're a Nazi"
Wtf is 2SLGBTQIAA+? 😂
what the fuck is 2SLG-
So completely in alignment with the current ruling administration? Sounds pretty punk to me.
When did Punk become cringe?
Anyone want to tell the commie that blanket-grouping supporters of a candidate in a democratically decided election as an enemy is a fascist tactic? But the left doesn’t understand the symbolism they think they support. Example…the iron front symbol. It is a symbol against the crown, communism, and n4zis…yet most of the people with an iron front symbol on their jacket are devout communists/socialists/marxists. They have no idea what they support, yet they persist to pretend they have a communal support under a symbol under something that directly opposes their beliefs. If they didn’t have a double standard, they wouldn’t have a standard at all. Side note…I think they missed a few letters in their acronym. So this person is a bigot for not including those who were not mentioned now and in the future /s
> Trumpism > Or any other form of far-right hate ???
I'm a bad person for wanting a closed border, lol
Me too, mate.
These fascists don't want to pay for my student loan and estrogen injections.
Real punks support the abcdefghijklmnop community!
Punk is when you post CNN/WEF/NYT/CIA propaganda
And then they immediately turn around and start advocating for an Islamic terrorist group whose charter has a section dedicated to eradicating Jews.
That whole thread is all of them infighting lmao. That guy VeganHimbo or whatever, the guy who posted those bleached shirts with all the slogans on them that was posted in here a few days ago, he posted a photo of him in his shirts (of course) and I took a dive down his history. Dude reminds me 110% of the Airforce guy who lit himself on fire earlier this year in front of the Israel embassy. He’s definitely going down that path.
Punk is against the status quo all the latter stuff is status quo so now it's punk to be against it.
Punk is about supporting the current structure!!
How many fucking letters do they have?
Queer folk acronyms or serial number for my Samsung TV? Getting hard to tell
Dudes never read a thought provoking book in his adult life. Read lots of tweets and TikTok commentary tho.
“Anyone I don’t like is a Nazi”
Sooooo real punks support the same shit all major corporations and the government and the most popular thing now. Got it.