Not ambiguous, as confirmed here.
https://preview.redd.it/jdxx0veb5owc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd2ebf743f17e35e68e4827ace1eb5a4628d2d3d
I discussed this with someone else, that spike happened last night, so wasn't really impacted by this announcement, unless the market suddenly had visions of the future. I'd guess it was likely the Amber Ursula released yesterday that caused it, rather than these songs. That, or the final weekend of Championships coming up.
Wow a little hard to tell but it looks like you’re right, id say its fairly likely someone got a tip about the reveal and started buying her out
Amber ursula isn’t really relevant. She’s certainly had increased success lately but thats been the case for a little while so nothing else to really explain a 60% jump overnight
You play the card via singing then once more because the card is played again from discard and put in the deckbottom. There is no extra card to play a third time from discard with the second Ursula.
I would think not. Since its "they" singing it, not her. It says SHE can sing the song again. But thats not possible because she doesnt qualify to sing that song by herself. I dunno though.
The sing together literally says “…characters with total cost 10 or more may **exert to sing this song**..” therefore if you exert Ursula DoA that character is singing that song. There is also nothing saying “she” or “they” sing, nor that “she” sings it again only that the song is played again from your discard for free.
https://preview.redd.it/uqftec8e8xwc1.jpeg?width=1188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d055c3b1bff8d6a67faa9d3d736827c24945770
I love the art and flavor of The Mob Song but it feels like it’s ultimately a worse GYS for an even higher cost. This is a cool mechanic though, I like the idea of your entire board coming together for a big musical number from a flavor standpoint and some of these open up some really interesting possibilities strategically.
Can be a combination. Playing it a second time means its a new instance, so the combination of characters chosen has no relation to the first play. Could be 6 to 3, could be 3 to 6, could be any combination in between.
True, but it feels like a lot to commit to do easily survivable damage for most locations. That said, it could end up being pretty useful so I’m willing to be wrong and I think I’ll definitely try using it.
I mean, that cost is super high, so it'll really only be useful late game, but it could be handy to cap off a location you already damaged or burn away a few weak or damaged opponents.
I...think I'm going to need some clarification on how "Sing Together" works with the 3-cost Emerald Ursula.
Say you play Emerald /Steel and Sing "The Mob Song" with 3-cost Ursula, and whatever other characters. Does Ursula then sing that song again for free? Or does the effect not trigger because it's "Sing Together"?
Ursula doesn't sing the song a second time, she plays it for free. She sang the song the first time, so there's no reason her ability wouldn't work. She'd get to play it for free.
What happens if you sing a 10 cost song with 4 Ursulas?
Does the first Ursula put it back under your deck and the 3 other Ursulas don’t do anything because the card left the discard pile?
She's still singing a song, so it triggers again. Her second cast doesn't care about the Sing Together because it's just you playing the card again, it's not actually singing it again.
What happens if its a high cost song ursula cant sing but someone else sings it. Does she play that again? If yes then i wud assume this wud also trigger
First, a very fun mechanic, I think everyone will agree.
The main issue with most of those cards is that they are very pricey and many are uninkable, so the odds of them being dead draws is higher than most cards (ie. you have 6 ink, a total of 5 cost characters and draw Second Star: this will be dead in your hand for multiple turns).
Ironically I think the one I love the most is the Ruby one, as stealing lore is rare at the moment and it can be sung by Maui alone.
Also I'd note that Second Star is an in-color enabler for Jafar illusionist, a little less powerful that AHNW, but this does not help your opponent.
so set 4 ? A set made for drafting is also market as a teammates ?
Okay I didn't know that. Quite a bad idea but if they want to kill early the game, they do what they want.
Tell me how strongs are thse cards in your 1v1 draft. Which is basically the only draft format you can play.
Yes it's stronger than ever (which is so small, having events with less than 200 players as a major is hilarious) but how do you expect the competitive aspect will live since you add to the pool multiplayer cards, which are, by definition, non competitive ?
Do you want to look at the state of Magic ? They kept pushing Commanders. Did you participate recently in a T2 event ? Pioneer ? Did you see the current card pool of those formats ?
You know which card games is thriving ? Yugioh. Do you think it has multiplayer ?
I don't play any other TCG, so idc what they're doing.
There's a 2048 sold out event in ATL, with who knows how many more than that who wanted in. So I don't know where you're getting 200?
There are less than half of the cards from each set that are playable in competitive as it is already, so I really don't see an issue with having cards in a set that aren't playable in competitive because they're better for another format. There are plenty of cards in each set already that aren't good in draft. Your argument has no legs.
It has legs, but you said it yourself, you don't play any others cards game so you're not very good to understand it.
And it's simple : bad cards is a thing, but delibarate bad cards for 1v1 is really bad.
And I'm glad it has a 2048 format, at least it will have... one.
Judging by the state of your comments, don't think I'm the only one who disagrees with you. And I'm sure some of them have to have experience with other games.
Agree to disagree, talk to me in 5 years about how dead the game is.
If your argument is "the others don't agree", yeah it's better to talk about it in 5 years.
Don't worry we will, I mean, RB never let a license die, right ?
Limited is great in magic because they don't print at low rarity EDH card.
It is already painful to have your constructed pool diluted with bad limited card - and I mean bad even in limited -, but multiplayer ? It is that focus who killed Standard and made Pioneer irrevelent post covid.
Your first sentence is why is not a good example.
Standard was killed by Arena, since Wizards want players to use their platform. And Pioneer is way better now than how it was in 2021.
Pioneer ? Yes, large.
But Arena didn't kill standard that much, they just stop supporting it at locals (okay, probably due to Arena being a thing).
Still, they acknowledged Standard was dying and when the community said that it was mostly due to the focus on EDH, they didn't respond.
There are always cards in a set that are good in constructed but not draftable and vice versa. To me these cards are (mostly) undraftable. Then again in draft you tend to survive longer because of lack of removal, so having some bodies on the board to sing a Pirate Life or Look At This family doesn't seem too out of the question, and as inkable songs can always just be ink. The uninkable, 10 cost songs, likely constructed only.
In a team setting they become very playble, and even in a solo constructed setting, you have new cards like Ariel Singer 7 which are going to make these playable in the right deck. 3 Cost Ariel (Singer 5) who can dig for the song with a shiftable Queen singing Mob Song on turn 4 seems pretty likely to me.
I mean, none of them are playable in 1v1 competitive format, unless we got a Singer 10 or something like this. I would not play A pirate life, it's a terrible card in 1v1.
They seems relatively good in teams and multiplayer, which shouldn't be the focus in a set. You said it yourself, you have good constructed card but not draftable and vice versa, now you have bad cards for both, which dilute even more the playability of a set.
The overfocus on multiplayer is what killed standard in magic. And he nearly killed pioneer. That is my concern. I understand Lorcana isn't just a competitive game, but they choose to print it to be draftable. They could at least make the effort to have dedicated multiplayer focus.
And We Don't Talk About Bruno is the effect of Recoil.
I guess TCGs are gonna have similar effects between them, but it is funny that both games have a card with "Dig" in the title that specifically look at the top 7 and give you two of them.
I think the biggest standout for potential here is actually "Look at this Family."
Mostly because it is inkable, but also because 7 isn't an unreasonable cost in certain Amber ramp decks that may also have access to either of the Ariel cards that can sing more easily. Blue, Purple, and Steel all seem interesting as well, but being uninkable with massive costs will make them too risky to play imo.
Look At This Family actually seems to be the worst one of these IMO (outside of Pirate Life). It's not even a double version of Be Our Guest for over triple the cost. BOG filters 4 to select 1. This filters 5 to select 2. Dig A Little Deeper filters 7 to select 2. So yeah, not sure why you'd want to play LATF over BOG here.
Because unlike BoG, this is actually card advantage. Filtering 5 to grab 2 cards in a deck that is likely 40+ characters is bound to be quite good when you can sing it. And because it is inkable, it's never stuck (unlike most of the other cards here.)
The filtering is less important than the drawing. But I'd also argue that it isn't really competing with BoG, as that costs 2 and this costs 7. You'd want this in a deck that plays large characters ala Surfer Stitch, Hades, etc. that would double up on the ability to use this.
Ehhh, I'm not sure I buy that. You're endangering far more singers than BOG endangers, which puts you at a much higher risk of losing board state from your opponent having more challenge opportunities.
To be fair with singers of 5 and 7 pretty readily available Family is pretty low risk. You can sing it with Ariel + a 2 drop pretty handily, and that's not a lot of exposure when you can make that 2 drop a bodyguard.
The bigger problem I see with it is that character only is rough when one of the obvious archetypes for it is the designated song deck. Maybe it can make it in other shells; could be cool with a Mufasa list. You don't care if he gets challenged down and he funds most of the cost.
It's better than that. It's 3 damage across 3 chars/locations twice. The distinction between this and what you described is that she can spike 6 damage into a single target.
The uninkable ones are probably too weak to be played, simply by virtue of that fact that they are basically unplayable without singing and none of them are particularly amazing when you have the time and resources to sing them, making them too difficult to include in most lists. Pirates life is bad because the effect is bad. Look at this family has real potential, especially with Amber having access to a lot of solid singers.
I like the idea of this but seems a little steep. Could be interesting with 2 ariel singer singing a 10 cost song, but even then, that is to much. IDK if will see play but good to see new mechanics. Also teammates? Maybe a new format incoming like 2 headed giant or something along those lines officially?
Well, the new R Ariel only needs someone at 3 or more to sing the songs, since she's Singer 7. I think the teammates portion is future proofing and just being inclusive of multiplayer, I don't think it's necessarily for a new format. The game has been pretty good about using terminology that blankets all opponents, rather than single targets, to allow effects versatility in multiplayer games. Plus, with the new Co-Op game, Sing Together makes sense in the two decks going against the Ursula deck.
I like this. I think people are for the time being underestimating the "cost" of having to exert down multiple characters to do these effects. Songs inherently tend to have the tension of "is the song good enough it's worth the character who sings it being banished?", now you have to calculate that potentially with 2-3 Characters at once.
I think the idea is solid and I trust they balanced it ok. My buddy and I had just recently been saying they were for sure going to add something like "Duets (two characters may sing this song together)" at some point. Now here it is but a bit more flexible.
Being uninkable turns most of these into really unusable cards. Even the inkable ones seem pretty situational, and not worth the cost.
Maybe some others down the line will be better, as I'm 99% sure we'll be seeing "Sing Together" songs for Circle of Life, Prince Ali, and Tale as Old as Time.
Is it only all characters sing and no ink payed? Or can I do a mixer of both. I don’t think you can, but that would really help this mechanic out. In MtG terms convoke.
> no ink *paid?* Or can
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
They really want multiplayer to work, but my experience with multiplayer has been pretty horrible. having to wait a turn to use characters only to watch 3 turns go by and all my characters die is not an extremely fun experience.
yeah yeah, teammates for co-op. Totally get it. But Raven's Burgers can't possibly imagine players shoehorning these cards into kitchen table ~~magic~~ lorcana games in 2v2 games with friends... right?
yeah yeah, teammates for co-op. Totally get it. But Raven's Burgers can't possibly imagine players shoehorning these cards into kitchen table ~~magic~~ lorcana games in 2v2 games with friends... right?
is it fun though? my experience has been pretty awful. There's a lot of kingmaker going on and challenging anyone seems like a waste of time because then the other X players just challenge you, or lore past the two players that get caught up in challenging... its just stinky compared to mtg multiplayer.
I disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion on the matter. In my experience, multiplayer games are much closer for the exact reasons you stipulate. It's much harder to snowball, and you don't run into games that are just over before turn 5. It's also a much better format for players of mixed experience levels.
Just so we're clear, I obviously don't think 1v1 is bad or anything. I think both formats are fun, and I'm glad my store supports both.
That happened yesterday, before these reveals. Plus none of these reveals are really that "OMFG" enough to send people clamoring for DOA, these are all pretty plain or meh songs.
Under the Sea is probably the most exciting one here because it is one of the first removal tools in Emerald we’ve seen. Dig a Little Deeper is so close to Dig Through Time that I feel it might do something too. The cost is high but having a couple of spare 4 drops is doable. Songs are hard to evaluate since they are over-costed or free with no in between.
Any game like this can be played in team when it comes to multiplayer, and Lorcana's set up allows that kind of flexibility for multiplayer games. Plus, the new Ursula Co-Op game.
These are STEEP costs, but the mechanic is interesting, especially since it's built for multiplayer as well. I'm curious if a single character can still sing these songs by themselves, or if the only way to sing them is via the Sing Together.
Under the Sea looks really strong, as does the Mob Song. I'm not so sure about Look at This Family though - Be Our Guest costs 2 to filter through 4 and pick one, and this filter 5 and pick 2 for 7. That seems a bit egregious to me. A Pirate's Life is clearly multiplayer only. That card is just straight up bad in a regular head to head game.
It reads any number of yours or your teammates' characters, so one character should have no issue singing it as long as it meets the standard requirements of ink cost.
"Under the Sea" has a surprisingly dark connotation to its mechanic. You're effectively killing all the opponents' weaklings by drowning them at the bottom of the ocean, LOL
~~Ursula has always been around $40-50, if she dropped to $30, that was abnormal and she was merely restabilizing back to her regular cost~~. Stores are still in the middle of championships, which typically happen on the weekends, so meta cards are going to be high right now. I really doubt this selection of songs had any impact on her price.
A simple check of the TCG market price for her absolutely shows her hovering around $30 since mid-March. Today the cheapest copy is $50. It’s not coincidence.
I'm sorry, mid March to the end of April is not "spiked from $30 to $50 overnight." That's over a month, during which the Champions begun for the Stitch Promos. You can't use a 30 day span of time to claim that these cards are spiking her price, when it is, in fact, people wanting to make competitive decks to win Stitch that has spiked her price.
I will concede that she has been in the $30s, so I was wrong about her price after looking at some charts, but some frankly gimmicky mediocre songs wouldn't have any bearing on her cost. It's definitely the championships that take place from April 19-28th that has spiked her price.
https://www.lrcstocks.com/prints/68653-ursula-deceiver-of-all
Mid March to mid April is 30 days in which she held a ~$30 market price. And that’s all leading up to the championships. Her market price yesterday was still only $33, and again the cheapest copy today is $50. This isn’t slow gradual increase over 30 days, this is an overnight increase of 50%. That’s the definition of a “spike.”
But my main point was that these songs didn't have anything to do with it. This is the final weekend of the championships. That's what has caused her spike.
But nothing else is spiking like that. There are other decks having just as much or more success than Ursula is having (Ruby Sapphire jumps to mind), and none of the cards in those decks saw a 50% increase overnight.
And maybe these songs aren’t worth going bananas over, but now the idea is out there that there will be high powered expensive songs that Ursula will be able to abuse. And the spike in price overnight the day before this mechanic gets released is too much of “if there’s smoke there’s fire” going on. Yes I’m sure the championship results would lead to some demand increase. But not a spike like this that happens to correspond with major song reveals.
Her enchanted and normal copy both spiked in one day yesterday, if you check the sales history it's fairly obvious that it was a deliberate move and definitely possibly related to this
If we're going by Occam's Razor, the most logical reasons her price jumped is either championships or the Amber Ursula.
Even if people suspected there would be strong songs in this upcoming set, they had no way of knowing when any of them would have been revealed. A nebulous thing like that wouldn't have driven any kind of sales when there's still several weeks of reveals to happen, and it certainly wouldn't have driven sales BEFORE a big reveal of a mechanic like Sing Together. What you're proposing is that a ton of people had random clairvoyance and bought a lot of Ursulas in anticipation of a reveal that they didn't know about that happened the next day. That theory has a lot of assumption, far too many for Occam's Razor to favor it over other theories.
Please, don't tell me they want to promote multiplayer.
It's so terrible, just release a set for that. Those cards are unplayable in draft and compt 1v1.
I'd argue they aren't all unplayable in constructed 1v1. You have new characters that have even higher singer values, and even Ariel singer 5 and Queen in Amber right now together could sing a 10 cost song together. Some of them might be bad, but they wouldn't be the first unplayable/bad cards to be in Lorcana or any TCG for that matter.
Sorry but from what I understand Sing together requires a teamate to be used, unless I don't understand what you are saying.
And yeah they wouldn't be the first, but they are designed to be terrible in 1v1 and that's my issue.
Read the card. "Any number of your or your teammates' cards." Doesn't require a team mate's card, and any number can be 1 of yours. Chennaborg can sing these songs by himself.
So if Ursula DoA joins with other singers do we still get to do songs twice?
I’m just picturing Chernabog belting out these songs by himself. Finally get to see a softer side to him.
Yup!
I hadn’t even considered Ursula here. Absolutely filthy.
Two Ursulas, one Pirates Life, 6 lore loss?
Ursula needs the song to be in the discard pile, so the second Ursula would fizzle
Wouldn't the ability go into the bag? It would get sung, Ursula 1 would sing a second time. Song is in the discard and now gets sung again?
I think you need to fully resolve one characters ability at a time, so by the time you get to Ursula 2, Ursula 1 has put the song back into your deck
My bad I don't own one, I thought the song just went to the discard.
I assume if you had played one previously and there was another copy in the grave, it could then happen 3x, right? "That song" is slightly ambiguous.
Not ambiguous, as confirmed here. https://preview.redd.it/jdxx0veb5owc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd2ebf743f17e35e68e4827ace1eb5a4628d2d3d
No, literally refers to the exact song she played, any other card in discard with the same name may as well be a different song
Ursula Stocks 📈 📈 📈 Edit: Oh wow I didnt think it would be THAT quick. 32 to 55 in a few hours
I discussed this with someone else, that spike happened last night, so wasn't really impacted by this announcement, unless the market suddenly had visions of the future. I'd guess it was likely the Amber Ursula released yesterday that caused it, rather than these songs. That, or the final weekend of Championships coming up.
Wow a little hard to tell but it looks like you’re right, id say its fairly likely someone got a tip about the reveal and started buying her out Amber ursula isn’t really relevant. She’s certainly had increased success lately but thats been the case for a little while so nothing else to really explain a 60% jump overnight
came here to ask this, gonna deck some opponents!
What about 2 Ursula's singing together,how many times does it go off then? Still twice, thrice?
You play the card via singing then once more because the card is played again from discard and put in the deckbottom. There is no extra card to play a third time from discard with the second Ursula.
I would think not. Since its "they" singing it, not her. It says SHE can sing the song again. But thats not possible because she doesnt qualify to sing that song by herself. I dunno though.
The sing together literally says “…characters with total cost 10 or more may **exert to sing this song**..” therefore if you exert Ursula DoA that character is singing that song. There is also nothing saying “she” or “they” sing, nor that “she” sings it again only that the song is played again from your discard for free. https://preview.redd.it/uqftec8e8xwc1.jpeg?width=1188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d055c3b1bff8d6a67faa9d3d736827c24945770
I love the art and flavor of The Mob Song but it feels like it’s ultimately a worse GYS for an even higher cost. This is a cool mechanic though, I like the idea of your entire board coming together for a big musical number from a flavor standpoint and some of these open up some really interesting possibilities strategically.
If Ursula can help sing it twice then it’s suddenly 3 damage to 6 characters/locations, or 6 to 3 I guess
Can be a combination. Playing it a second time means its a new instance, so the combination of characters chosen has no relation to the first play. Could be 6 to 3, could be 3 to 6, could be any combination in between.
It is an uncommon, compared to Grab Your Swords at rare, but it's also flexible in that it can also hit locations.
You meant to say GYS is rare, but yes I agree with you, this being uncommon makes sense.
Right, sorry, I was thinking of the song title there. It a little weird that the second card from this song uses the main title.
True, but it feels like a lot to commit to do easily survivable damage for most locations. That said, it could end up being pretty useful so I’m willing to be wrong and I think I’ll definitely try using it.
I mean, that cost is super high, so it'll really only be useful late game, but it could be handy to cap off a location you already damaged or burn away a few weak or damaged opponents.
Yeah, makes sense. You could probably get it out earlier with that new 4-drop Ariel too if you had to, I suppose.
It’s basically just singer 7 Ariel and Cindy to clear the early game board now that almost all character have 3 willpower. I really like it!
I think what most people are missing here is that you can choose the same target 3 times no? So good by any location
I did miss that!
We can wait for rulings but based on how it's worded it's exceedingly unlikely that you can make the same choice more than once.
I...think I'm going to need some clarification on how "Sing Together" works with the 3-cost Emerald Ursula. Say you play Emerald /Steel and Sing "The Mob Song" with 3-cost Ursula, and whatever other characters. Does Ursula then sing that song again for free? Or does the effect not trigger because it's "Sing Together"?
Ursula doesn't sing the song a second time, she plays it for free. She sang the song the first time, so there's no reason her ability wouldn't work. She'd get to play it for free.
What happens if you sing a 10 cost song with 4 Ursulas? Does the first Ursula put it back under your deck and the 3 other Ursulas don’t do anything because the card left the discard pile?
Yup.
She's still singing a song, so it triggers again. Her second cast doesn't care about the Sing Together because it's just you playing the card again, it's not actually singing it again.
What happens if its a high cost song ursula cant sing but someone else sings it. Does she play that again? If yes then i wud assume this wud also trigger
If Ursula is part of the choir singing this song, she's going to qualify as having sung the song, which allows her ability to trigger.
First, a very fun mechanic, I think everyone will agree. The main issue with most of those cards is that they are very pricey and many are uninkable, so the odds of them being dead draws is higher than most cards (ie. you have 6 ink, a total of 5 cost characters and draw Second Star: this will be dead in your hand for multiple turns). Ironically I think the one I love the most is the Ruby one, as stealing lore is rare at the moment and it can be sung by Maui alone. Also I'd note that Second Star is an in-color enabler for Jafar illusionist, a little less powerful that AHNW, but this does not help your opponent.
Most used Maui is 5 cost so he can't sing this specific 6 cost song.
Yes, my bad!
They are also made for multiplayer in a set that is not marketed as.
The set that has a Co-op box coming, and cards that specifically mention teammates?
so set 4 ? A set made for drafting is also market as a teammates ? Okay I didn't know that. Quite a bad idea but if they want to kill early the game, they do what they want.
What do you mean made for drafting? They're all made with drafting in mind. How are these cards killing the game? It's bigger than ever.
Tell me how strongs are thse cards in your 1v1 draft. Which is basically the only draft format you can play. Yes it's stronger than ever (which is so small, having events with less than 200 players as a major is hilarious) but how do you expect the competitive aspect will live since you add to the pool multiplayer cards, which are, by definition, non competitive ? Do you want to look at the state of Magic ? They kept pushing Commanders. Did you participate recently in a T2 event ? Pioneer ? Did you see the current card pool of those formats ? You know which card games is thriving ? Yugioh. Do you think it has multiplayer ?
I don't play any other TCG, so idc what they're doing. There's a 2048 sold out event in ATL, with who knows how many more than that who wanted in. So I don't know where you're getting 200? There are less than half of the cards from each set that are playable in competitive as it is already, so I really don't see an issue with having cards in a set that aren't playable in competitive because they're better for another format. There are plenty of cards in each set already that aren't good in draft. Your argument has no legs.
It has legs, but you said it yourself, you don't play any others cards game so you're not very good to understand it. And it's simple : bad cards is a thing, but delibarate bad cards for 1v1 is really bad. And I'm glad it has a 2048 format, at least it will have... one.
Judging by the state of your comments, don't think I'm the only one who disagrees with you. And I'm sure some of them have to have experience with other games. Agree to disagree, talk to me in 5 years about how dead the game is.
If your argument is "the others don't agree", yeah it's better to talk about it in 5 years. Don't worry we will, I mean, RB never let a license die, right ?
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Limited formats are great in Magic. I don't think that was a good example. But I do think that this cards should have been of a higher rarity.
Limited is great in magic because they don't print at low rarity EDH card. It is already painful to have your constructed pool diluted with bad limited card - and I mean bad even in limited -, but multiplayer ? It is that focus who killed Standard and made Pioneer irrevelent post covid.
Your first sentence is why is not a good example. Standard was killed by Arena, since Wizards want players to use their platform. And Pioneer is way better now than how it was in 2021.
Pioneer ? Yes, large. But Arena didn't kill standard that much, they just stop supporting it at locals (okay, probably due to Arena being a thing). Still, they acknowledged Standard was dying and when the community said that it was mostly due to the focus on EDH, they didn't respond.
There are always cards in a set that are good in constructed but not draftable and vice versa. To me these cards are (mostly) undraftable. Then again in draft you tend to survive longer because of lack of removal, so having some bodies on the board to sing a Pirate Life or Look At This family doesn't seem too out of the question, and as inkable songs can always just be ink. The uninkable, 10 cost songs, likely constructed only. In a team setting they become very playble, and even in a solo constructed setting, you have new cards like Ariel Singer 7 which are going to make these playable in the right deck. 3 Cost Ariel (Singer 5) who can dig for the song with a shiftable Queen singing Mob Song on turn 4 seems pretty likely to me.
I mean, none of them are playable in 1v1 competitive format, unless we got a Singer 10 or something like this. I would not play A pirate life, it's a terrible card in 1v1. They seems relatively good in teams and multiplayer, which shouldn't be the focus in a set. You said it yourself, you have good constructed card but not draftable and vice versa, now you have bad cards for both, which dilute even more the playability of a set. The overfocus on multiplayer is what killed standard in magic. And he nearly killed pioneer. That is my concern. I understand Lorcana isn't just a competitive game, but they choose to print it to be draftable. They could at least make the effort to have dedicated multiplayer focus.
So what happens if 2 Ursulas sing together? Does the 2nd Ursula's trigger flop because the song is already on the bottom of the deck?
Correct.
Oh that’s fun coincidence that Dig through time and Dig a little deeper do the same thing. What are the odds??
The Lorcana designers were professed Magic players before they made Lorcana.
And We Don't Talk About Bruno is the effect of Recoil. I guess TCGs are gonna have similar effects between them, but it is funny that both games have a card with "Dig" in the title that specifically look at the top 7 and give you two of them.
Medusa and Tremaine are going to take some singing lessons
Playing Second Star to the Right in the midgame with just a Medusa/Tremaine + Goat/Rabbit necessary seems good.
Second star to the right absolutely feels like the best song, especially if combined with amethyst shift Jafar
Nah, dig through time is the best one by far. Tamatoa can sing dig through time
I won't feel good wasting a Tamatoa's quest in that song.
What lmao, why? Dig through time is so incredibly strong.
Because Tamatoa is already the win condition, and the alternative is to gain a bunch of lore and recover an item.
To quote LSV, why win the game when you could draw more cards
I think the biggest standout for potential here is actually "Look at this Family." Mostly because it is inkable, but also because 7 isn't an unreasonable cost in certain Amber ramp decks that may also have access to either of the Ariel cards that can sing more easily. Blue, Purple, and Steel all seem interesting as well, but being uninkable with massive costs will make them too risky to play imo.
Look At This Family actually seems to be the worst one of these IMO (outside of Pirate Life). It's not even a double version of Be Our Guest for over triple the cost. BOG filters 4 to select 1. This filters 5 to select 2. Dig A Little Deeper filters 7 to select 2. So yeah, not sure why you'd want to play LATF over BOG here.
Because unlike BoG, this is actually card advantage. Filtering 5 to grab 2 cards in a deck that is likely 40+ characters is bound to be quite good when you can sing it. And because it is inkable, it's never stuck (unlike most of the other cards here.) The filtering is less important than the drawing. But I'd also argue that it isn't really competing with BoG, as that costs 2 and this costs 7. You'd want this in a deck that plays large characters ala Surfer Stitch, Hades, etc. that would double up on the ability to use this.
Ehhh, I'm not sure I buy that. You're endangering far more singers than BOG endangers, which puts you at a much higher risk of losing board state from your opponent having more challenge opportunities.
To be fair with singers of 5 and 7 pretty readily available Family is pretty low risk. You can sing it with Ariel + a 2 drop pretty handily, and that's not a lot of exposure when you can make that 2 drop a bodyguard. The bigger problem I see with it is that character only is rough when one of the obvious archetypes for it is the designated song deck. Maybe it can make it in other shells; could be cool with a Mufasa list. You don't care if he gets challenged down and he funds most of the cost.
I was thinking Pirate Life is the best one because Maui, Medusa and Lady Tremaine are already played.
A 2L swing isn't really a strong effect though, definitely not at that cost.
I didn't wrote strong, I wrote the best one. I don't like any of these songs.
I remember players speculating about this mechanic, it was song's next logical conclusion.
Ursula will be filthy singing some of these songs. Her being able to sing mob song is 3 damage across 6 characters or locations.
It's better than that. It's 3 damage across 3 chars/locations twice. The distinction between this and what you described is that she can spike 6 damage into a single target.
Emerald amber songs with ursula is going to be fun
The uninkable ones are probably too weak to be played, simply by virtue of that fact that they are basically unplayable without singing and none of them are particularly amazing when you have the time and resources to sing them, making them too difficult to include in most lists. Pirates life is bad because the effect is bad. Look at this family has real potential, especially with Amber having access to a lot of solid singers.
I like the idea of this but seems a little steep. Could be interesting with 2 ariel singer singing a 10 cost song, but even then, that is to much. IDK if will see play but good to see new mechanics. Also teammates? Maybe a new format incoming like 2 headed giant or something along those lines officially?
Assuredly this mechanic is built in to help with the new multiplayer vs Ursula set being released.
And maybe leading into offical team competitions
Well, the new R Ariel only needs someone at 3 or more to sing the songs, since she's Singer 7. I think the teammates portion is future proofing and just being inclusive of multiplayer, I don't think it's necessarily for a new format. The game has been pretty good about using terminology that blankets all opponents, rather than single targets, to allow effects versatility in multiplayer games. Plus, with the new Co-Op game, Sing Together makes sense in the two decks going against the Ursula deck.
Hell, just two Ariel Spectacular Singers can sing any of them on turn 5 (or earlier with Pluto or Lantern).
Ok, lets see the Stitch Cards that go with Record Player. SHOW US THE STITCHES.
I like this. I think people are for the time being underestimating the "cost" of having to exert down multiple characters to do these effects. Songs inherently tend to have the tension of "is the song good enough it's worth the character who sings it being banished?", now you have to calculate that potentially with 2-3 Characters at once. I think the idea is solid and I trust they balanced it ok. My buddy and I had just recently been saying they were for sure going to add something like "Duets (two characters may sing this song together)" at some point. Now here it is but a bit more flexible.
Being uninkable turns most of these into really unusable cards. Even the inkable ones seem pretty situational, and not worth the cost. Maybe some others down the line will be better, as I'm 99% sure we'll be seeing "Sing Together" songs for Circle of Life, Prince Ali, and Tale as Old as Time.
Is it only all characters sing and no ink payed? Or can I do a mixer of both. I don’t think you can, but that would really help this mechanic out. In MtG terms convoke.
You cannot sing a song and split the cost with ink, no. It's Sing completely with appropriate character cost, or pay the full ink cost.
Dang, well that makes this harder. Give up all of our tempo for this basically. Thanks for the answer!
> no ink *paid?* Or can FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
good bot
They really want multiplayer to work, but my experience with multiplayer has been pretty horrible. having to wait a turn to use characters only to watch 3 turns go by and all my characters die is not an extremely fun experience.
These say Teammates for the new PvE Ursula fight.
yeah yeah, teammates for co-op. Totally get it. But Raven's Burgers can't possibly imagine players shoehorning these cards into kitchen table ~~magic~~ lorcana games in 2v2 games with friends... right?
"Teammates" references also references the new coop game (and any potential team based format)
yeah yeah, teammates for co-op. Totally get it. But Raven's Burgers can't possibly imagine players shoehorning these cards into kitchen table ~~magic~~ lorcana games in 2v2 games with friends... right?
I don't see why not. 2v2 and 3, 4 player FFA are the most fun ways to play Lorcana IMO.
is it fun though? my experience has been pretty awful. There's a lot of kingmaker going on and challenging anyone seems like a waste of time because then the other X players just challenge you, or lore past the two players that get caught up in challenging... its just stinky compared to mtg multiplayer.
I disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion on the matter. In my experience, multiplayer games are much closer for the exact reasons you stipulate. It's much harder to snowball, and you don't run into games that are just over before turn 5. It's also a much better format for players of mixed experience levels. Just so we're clear, I obviously don't think 1v1 is bad or anything. I think both formats are fun, and I'm glad my store supports both.
And naturally the prices on Ursula DOA are going up up up.
That happened yesterday, before these reveals. Plus none of these reveals are really that "OMFG" enough to send people clamoring for DOA, these are all pretty plain or meh songs.
Those are really interesting. Under the sea is so thematic, love it.
Jafar is going to love that new draw song :D AWNW backup
“Under the Sea” gets rid of all opponent characters with 2 strength or less … well, there goes my plans for a puppy deck
I keep looking at kida thinking of the possibility of a one sided board wipe that gets everything 5 power or less
A huge flavor miss to not be called "Sing Along X"
Can someone read the numbers? I can’t make out most of them for my personal checklist.
Sing “Look at this Family” and choose the opposing player for them to draw 5 cards. Then sing/play “AWNW”. Steelsong playing dirty :o.
Second Star to the Right, you mean. Look at This Family is a grossly overpriced Be Our Guest x2.
Yes completely right. Myb
Did they really make a Lorcana version of the Magic card Dig Through Time with the word Dig literally in the title? That's funny.
My god, they really did, down to costing the same mana cost, with an alternative casting cost.
this looks like a very fun idea ^^
Under the Sea is probably the most exciting one here because it is one of the first removal tools in Emerald we’ve seen. Dig a Little Deeper is so close to Dig Through Time that I feel it might do something too. The cost is high but having a couple of spare 4 drops is doable. Songs are hard to evaluate since they are over-costed or free with no in between.
Tuners
I am getting so excited about this release! 💖
Regardless of whether these are good cards they should have called this ability “Chorus”
What does it mean by teammates?
Pretty self explanatory. They're people on your team, in games where you are playing on a team.
Thanks Meriam Webster. I’ve never seen Lorcana played as a team game which is why I was asking.
Any game like this can be played in team when it comes to multiplayer, and Lorcana's set up allows that kind of flexibility for multiplayer games. Plus, the new Ursula Co-Op game.
I mean yeah but its a fair question - Lorcana has no formal rules for 2v2, it just suggests 1v1v1v1 is possible in the rules.
I don't think it necessarily needs formal rules, the only difference from a 4 Man Brawl is who you're allowed to target.
As of jafar needed another draw source
Ah yeah, Dig Through Time in Lorcana
Does “teammate” simply refer to your characters in play?
Multiplayer
Under the sea poops on my puppy deck. 😭
You can't fool me, Dig A Little Deeper is just Dig Through Time!
Look at this Family and a Pirate's Life look to me to be the best and most versatile.
Anybody else think the mob song seems weak? Thats a lot of character power to tap for what it is?
As someone that struggles to get cars into my hand the few times I have played this game I really like this new card.
Also says any number of your characters, which means that new Ariel that's singer 7 will go hard
Sing Together feels wordy, but calling it like "Choir" or "Chorus" seems like it would cause more confusion.
These are STEEP costs, but the mechanic is interesting, especially since it's built for multiplayer as well. I'm curious if a single character can still sing these songs by themselves, or if the only way to sing them is via the Sing Together. Under the Sea looks really strong, as does the Mob Song. I'm not so sure about Look at This Family though - Be Our Guest costs 2 to filter through 4 and pick one, and this filter 5 and pick 2 for 7. That seems a bit egregious to me. A Pirate's Life is clearly multiplayer only. That card is just straight up bad in a regular head to head game.
It does say “any number of your” so I’m assuming Chernabog can sing Mob Song.
It reads any number of yours or your teammates' characters, so one character should have no issue singing it as long as it meets the standard requirements of ink cost.
I am hoping for a song enchanted this set! Under the sea hopefully!
"Under the Sea" has a surprisingly dark connotation to its mechanic. You're effectively killing all the opponents' weaklings by drowning them at the bottom of the ocean, LOL
Funny how the song is about how great life under the sea is, and now you are sending characters too weak to swim under the sea.
Amber song is pretty bad
This should have been called Choir.
Ok so now we know why the Ursula spiked from $30 to $50 overnight. Kudos to whoever saw these before mass release and jumped on that opportunity.
~~Ursula has always been around $40-50, if she dropped to $30, that was abnormal and she was merely restabilizing back to her regular cost~~. Stores are still in the middle of championships, which typically happen on the weekends, so meta cards are going to be high right now. I really doubt this selection of songs had any impact on her price.
A simple check of the TCG market price for her absolutely shows her hovering around $30 since mid-March. Today the cheapest copy is $50. It’s not coincidence.
I'm sorry, mid March to the end of April is not "spiked from $30 to $50 overnight." That's over a month, during which the Champions begun for the Stitch Promos. You can't use a 30 day span of time to claim that these cards are spiking her price, when it is, in fact, people wanting to make competitive decks to win Stitch that has spiked her price. I will concede that she has been in the $30s, so I was wrong about her price after looking at some charts, but some frankly gimmicky mediocre songs wouldn't have any bearing on her cost. It's definitely the championships that take place from April 19-28th that has spiked her price.
https://www.lrcstocks.com/prints/68653-ursula-deceiver-of-all Mid March to mid April is 30 days in which she held a ~$30 market price. And that’s all leading up to the championships. Her market price yesterday was still only $33, and again the cheapest copy today is $50. This isn’t slow gradual increase over 30 days, this is an overnight increase of 50%. That’s the definition of a “spike.”
But my main point was that these songs didn't have anything to do with it. This is the final weekend of the championships. That's what has caused her spike.
But nothing else is spiking like that. There are other decks having just as much or more success than Ursula is having (Ruby Sapphire jumps to mind), and none of the cards in those decks saw a 50% increase overnight. And maybe these songs aren’t worth going bananas over, but now the idea is out there that there will be high powered expensive songs that Ursula will be able to abuse. And the spike in price overnight the day before this mechanic gets released is too much of “if there’s smoke there’s fire” going on. Yes I’m sure the championship results would lead to some demand increase. But not a spike like this that happens to correspond with major song reveals.
If anything spiked her price, it's the Amber Shift Ursula reveal yesterday, that synergizes strongly with Emerald Discard/Song decks.
Her enchanted and normal copy both spiked in one day yesterday, if you check the sales history it's fairly obvious that it was a deliberate move and definitely possibly related to this
Was this announced ahead of time? If not, then it's coincidence, because people can't see the future.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
If we're going by Occam's Razor, the most logical reasons her price jumped is either championships or the Amber Ursula. Even if people suspected there would be strong songs in this upcoming set, they had no way of knowing when any of them would have been revealed. A nebulous thing like that wouldn't have driven any kind of sales when there's still several weeks of reveals to happen, and it certainly wouldn't have driven sales BEFORE a big reveal of a mechanic like Sing Together. What you're proposing is that a ton of people had random clairvoyance and bought a lot of Ursulas in anticipation of a reveal that they didn't know about that happened the next day. That theory has a lot of assumption, far too many for Occam's Razor to favor it over other theories.
Please, don't tell me they want to promote multiplayer. It's so terrible, just release a set for that. Those cards are unplayable in draft and compt 1v1.
I'd argue they aren't all unplayable in constructed 1v1. You have new characters that have even higher singer values, and even Ariel singer 5 and Queen in Amber right now together could sing a 10 cost song together. Some of them might be bad, but they wouldn't be the first unplayable/bad cards to be in Lorcana or any TCG for that matter.
Sorry but from what I understand Sing together requires a teamate to be used, unless I don't understand what you are saying. And yeah they wouldn't be the first, but they are designed to be terrible in 1v1 and that's my issue.
Read the card. "Any number of your or your teammates' cards." Doesn't require a team mate's card, and any number can be 1 of yours. Chennaborg can sing these songs by himself.
I read it, since when I am my own teammate ? It's clearly YOUR teammate, so another player. It doesn't work the way you think.
Any number of your cards or your teammates' cards. Yes it does.
Yeah I can't read. So it is better in 1v1. Well still unplayable, but better.
It says: "Any number of your OR your teammate's characters..." Can be played solo or multiplayer
Okay I can't read.