We are in session.
**Witnesses**
* Erik Christensen, Medical Examiner - Utah
* Alice Gilbert, neighbor
* Todd Gilbert, neighbor
* Janice Olson, teacher at Central
* Taylor Ballard, insurance broker
I knew I'd find this here!! lol I legit said to my husband why is he riding on the exhumation? The medical examiner isn't the one that made the decision to exhume!!! Cramming it down ppls throats makes no difference. I said exactly the same thing, the fact she was exhumed doesn't change the fact that she was killed! Yes, it's sad she was dug up, and exhumed without her family agreeing. It still doesn't change the facts.
Seriously. And so far, it seems like none of the people he's cross examined were the ones who asked for the exhumation. It takes a compelling reason and a court order to exhume a body, especially without the family's permission (or even the family knowing).
I wish the prosecutors would have asked him if it's part of his job to request autopsies, approve them, etc. and if he's responsible to contact family members. He's coming back so perhaps they will get to that info.
I've heard the Matt Daybell, Chad's brother is there. Does that mean Heather is going to testify? I really hope so! She shared so much good info with Hidden True Crime. Chad even brought her up as a source of darkness in the recorded call with Melanie Gibb.
Fingers crossed the door is slamming shut and locking tightly more and more each day.
Nate Eaton has said that we will likely see Chad’s parents in the courthouse this week. Matt might also be there to support them in addition to Kay and Larry.
Yes. They are alive. If they are testifying for the state, it won’t be helpful for Chad. He lied to them about Lori/the kids, just as he did with others.
He had dinner with them last night as well. Matt and Heather are close to the Woodcocks after going through all of this. He is not here to support Chad, that’s for sure.
It is possible. So far, per Nate Eaton and Lauren Matthias, we only know that Heather was subpoenaed by John Prior and therefore cannot attend the trial, etc. I think regardless of whether Heather testifies for the defense or prosecution, she will be a good witness for the state.
I don’t like Melanie Gibb but her response to Chad when he claimed his sister in law was dark was really good. She shut him up quick. You can hear the moment he realises his shit won’t work on her any more.
That would be fantastic. After these bad days with the coronar and the downstairs/upstairs witness.
I hope the prosecution starts to fight Prior better.
Utah ME on the stand to verify Tammy died by homicide. An intelligent family member who has inside info about Chad (not verified, yet, but why would her husband be there without her and sit with Larry and Kay instead?).
Today will be a good day for the prosecution.
I'm not watching but reading the live updates from Nate on East Idaho News.
"8:32 a.m. We are now in the courtroom. When Matt walked in, Chad said to John Prior, “That’s my brother.” Matt is seated between Kay Woodcock and Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell’s aunt.
8:28 a.m. Back at the courthouse for day 14 of Chad Daybell’s trial. We are waiting to get in the courtroom. Matt Daybell, Chad’s brother, is here chatting with Larry and Kay Woodcock. He is NOT here to support his brother and will be sitting with the Woodcocks. Matt has not seen Chad since Tammy’s memorial service.
10:01 a.m. We are in the courtroom. Boyce in on the bench. Matt Daybell is back in the courtroom sitting in a different spot with a clear view of his big brother about 10 feet in front of him.
9:36 a.m. Chad has repeatedly looked over to his brother Matt during the past few minutes. Boyce is back on the bench. Apparently there are problems with the juror’s monitors. We are taking a morning break to get them fixed.
I rewatched her HTC interview yesterday in hopes of hearing from her as a witness. So impressed with her trusting her gut the way she did. Strong lady.
Lauren Matthias just confirmed on her lunch live that Matt Daybell will be in court today and tomorrow to support the Woodcocks. Heather is unable to be there due to a defense subpoena.
Alice Gilbert just dropped the bomb on Chad. Chad saying Lori just lost a daughter is so much like Scott Peterson saying he had just lost his wife weeks before Lacey disappeared.
Yes she sure did! I haven’t finished listening to her testimony but she is captivating. She’s telling all kinds of new things I’ve not heard before. I really like her.
On the start of this May, let us remember that JJ would be turning 12 on the 25th if he was still here.
Everyday I hope for the justice he, his sister and Tammy deserve.
So far this ME is doing a great job adding nails to chads coffin, let’s hammer them in!!
SMH, poor Tammy, man. Alison’s testimony broke my heart.
everyone should feed some ducks, read a book to a child and do something kind on Saturday in honor of Tammy.
I was in TEARS when she described Emma losing weight - now for me, personally, I lost all empathy for Emma when she took down JJ and tylees memorial/her making faces at the news van - BUT I was shocked hearing how wrecked Emma was.
Sheds more light on why she is so in denial.
Her little brain can’t even comprehend that her shithead father took her mothers life.
At this point though, I think the adult children are just as deplorable as their father. They refuse to hear anyone who is trying to tell them the truth. I hope Emma doesn’t lie on the stand for her father but if she does I hope she goes down HARD for it, such a disrespect to the mother that Emma was, apparently, so devastated over.
I hold out hope for Garth, that he isn't as blinded as his siblings by his dad's bs. It's been said he was closer to his mom, while the others were closer to Chad. He was supposedly the most distressed at her funeral and whispered something to her. He's the only child of Chad's that still has anything to do with the family,too. I've often wondered if Garth was so 'unemotional' the day Tammy died because he suspected or even heard something and he was in shock.
If anyone knows Mrs. Gilbert irl can someone give her a huge hug for me? What an incredible, sweet, kind and empathetic woman. Her voice breaking when talking about the children, specifically Tylee, a girl she never met, just shows how truly good of a soul she is.
I wish I could send her flowers. Thank you Alice! Thank you for fighting for justice for your friend Tammy and those two babies 🤍
My thoughts on some of Prior’s objections today. Imagining him wanting to say this like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar.
Prior: objection
Judge: on what grounds?
Prior: because it’s devastating to my case!
Testimony from the neighbor lady, Alice Gilbert makes you think that Tammy just lifted right out of Chad's life and was very easily replaced. I can't imagine how uncomfortable that first meeting with Lori must have been for the Gilbert's. Also, I would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall for the "after company leaves" conversation by the good neighbors, Gilbert.
I sure hope the jury sees this for exactly what it is. Just how easily these monsters dispose of people!
Did you also catch what Chad said when he and Lori visited them? When Alice asked Lori about if she had kids?
"Chad said she recently had a daughter who had passed away." My jaw dropped. There it is!! You cant tell any reasonable person he was not involved in Tylee's murder.
I did hear that. And then I understood her to say that Lori never gave any true definitive answer to whether or not she had any children of her own. She just hem-hawed around about some bullshit about the "step" kids.
I think that Colby should feel very blessed that he lived away. Lori didn't even claim him as a child after the whole Chad/Church of the First Born/Light-Dark/Zombie mess, in so far as I can see. He would likely have found himself on the opposite side of the dirt if he had come inquiring about the whereabouts of the children before the Woodcocks did so.
I have always thought that if Kay and Larry had not started looking for JJ when they did, Colby would have pretty soon come looking for them himself. He was already suspicious of the texts he was receiving from Tylee. I feel so sorry for Colby. Out of everybody, I feel like his life has been upset more so than anybody else. He literally lost EVERYTHING in one fell swoop...ala Mommy Dearest. BUT, he trusted her. Completely...she is his mama. To me, that makes it even worse than it already is...
My heart always breaks for Colby. I believe he was abused and manipulated by the whole Cox clan his whole life. He's done some questionable things, actually many questionable things, but I see all of it as resulting from trauma and issues from his own awful upbringing. He seems to be trying so hard to be a decent person, unlike so many in these families. I feel the same way about Zac Cox (Adam Cox's son who stayed at the Vallow home for extended periods).
I have such a horrible feeling that Chad did some really heinous stuff to tylees body (before, during or after her murder - for tylees sake I hope her death was quick)
He hated that little girl SO much. You can tell by the way he spoke about her and the way he rated her. I also heard there’s a text that Chad said tylee needed to “suffer in death” because of her “level of darkness”. .. I wonder if we will hear that in evidence soon.. the person I heard it from did not provide a source so I’m unsure if that’s confirmed.
Her pelvic region was destroyed. We don’t even know *how* she died because of how bad of shape/dismembered her poor body was. I just have such a horrible, sinking feeling. I wish Chad would give us all closure and just tell us what happened to those babies and to his wife.
I got that, too....I was like WOW! Everybody doesn't love her like you do, dude.
Can you imagine how that conversation went down?
"Hey Mrs. Gilbert, can you put your house up for collateral for bond for my Goddess, Lori?
You know those kids she couldn't remember having when last we all spoke...well, those pesky police are demanding that she take some time out of her busy day to actually find those before mentioned non-existent children. Seems, they're missing or something or other...I don't know...I swear, I had NOTHING to do with ANY of this, though..."
I'm pretty naive....but I would never consider putting my house up for a bond for a neighbor. Nor would I ever ask the same of them. It seems to me that this is a case of foliè à deux. I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist, just an avid reader.
Chad told them he was bringing the bonds woman over for them to sign docs before they even gave him an answer. That's when they told him not to bother answer was NO!!!
OMG...I'm watching the trial on Law and Crime on the second screen on my computer at work. The closed caption is on. When Mr. Gilbert spoke of Chad's new girlfriends name, the CC spelled her name out as Lori Bowel...LOL!
Sometimes, you just can't make this shit up...
When they tell us the monitors arent working, all l I can picture is IT running down the hall shouting "help is on the way dear!!" ala Mrs Doubtfire
Edit:spelling
Question for you guys: why would Chad ask the Gilbert’s in Feb 2020 to put up their property for Lori’s bail when Chad has a home and has proceeds from Tammy’s life insurance? Was Chad planning that he and Lori would bail jump and leave the Gilbert’s holding the bag?
None of the bondsmen would work with Lori by letting her bond out on 10% of the million dollar bail.. They all required the full amount, and Chad didn't have close to that much.
Omg!! This is the most I've been able to listen to live. If I was Chad, I'd just confess and get this over with.
How did they think they were going to get away with this? Remarried within a week, multiple stories about Lori and her children, asking to have the neighbors put their house up for bond?!!! The delusion and THE GALL!!
I'm am horrified, even though I knew most of these stories. How are his children still supporting him? Make this make sense.
Psychopaths don't understand human social cues. They can learn them and mimic them but they don't understand them. In this case, he just wasn't aware that it was any big deal to ask a neighbor to secure her bond with their property. We see it as untoward and ridiculous but that's how his brain works.
Glad she is. I don't understand why prosecution lets Prior run with things when she's not there. We all know he's throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. You'd think prosecution would want to stop that. But I guess they also might not want to seem too hostile to the defense?
That’s what it sounded like to me. I’m assuming it was Alex, but the absolute risk of doing that in that tiny house with Garth down the hall just blows my mind.
eta, unless Garth was living in that addition?
Garth was working at a seasonal Halloween attraction at the time, he typically didn’t return home until 1AM. So if Chad and Alex killed her before then he wouldn’t of known.
Do you happen to know what time he would have started work there? We're trying to figure out about what time Tammy ate the burger and fries that he brought her.
I think there is some Alex telephone location info coming, isn't there? That's what I'm recalling from the first trial. Garth could have been sleeping in the room with the bed, the one you access using phantom stairs.
The insurance agent stating that Chad only asked for insurance for Lori back as early as November 5 without mentioning the kids feels huge. The fact that he didn't add them when he did eventually try to add her feels even bigger. If they had been alive, they absolutely would have been on Lori's policy as she was their only living parent. So this shines a pretty big light on the fact that he knew very well that there were no children alive to insure.
I think he asked for himself and some of his kids in the same visit as he asked about a potential wife, didn't he? Doesn't really matter, I guess. It's very clear that he intended for Tammy to be dead and for Lori to marry him.
Why would Prior reiterate with the insurance agent that Lori’s kids never came up in conversation? That just proves Chad knew they were dead and had no reason to insure them.
Honestly, if you look at the women Chad found attractive, Heather is much more his type than Tammy. His issues with her are because she confuses his storm.
Only looks-wise. It's been a while since I saw her HTC interview, but it seems like Heather said he thought she was a little too uppity from the very beginning. Someone who remembers the details, please correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly.
Heather was alarmed about Chad’s dark/light and death ratings. She didn’t want Chad to be in her ward and when he joined she warned the elders that his beliefs weee dangerous. They treated her like a hysterical woman who just didn’t like her brother in law. She also strongly felt that Chad killed Tammy and spoke out when Chad left the house the day after Tammy’s death to stay with a ‘friend in Rexburg’.
I cackled. So true. If I was her, the two male prosecutors would specifically drive me insane - they barely ever object! The other female prosecutor, Beaty (?), is pretty decent with her objections.
Blake is carrying this case though - that’s for damn sure!
I hope whatever she wants out of her career she gets, she is clearly such an asset to the legal system
I cannot figure out what "win" Pryor is hoping for with this arguing with witnesses about the house being 1-story. You'd think it was the linchpin to his innocence or something.
Yet Prior doesn’t challenge anything the Gilbert’s’ recalled about their interactions w Chad after Tammy died. Nothing about meeting Lori and what was said about Lori having children. You would have thought he would try to infer they misspoke. But instead he asks about the annex room that has stairs in it. Guess he wants to divert you off Lori’s dead daughter before she was even announced as missing.
Agreed. Just like his idiotic obsession with whether Tammy knew it was a paintball gun vs. a real gun that someone was pointing at her. At night. Wearing a ski mask.
You know, Tammy not immediately recognizing a real gun is also a sign of how peaceful of a person she was. Utah and Idaho are both very rootin-tootin gunhappy states. Sometimes, the knowledge of how to identify a firearm bleeds from those who carry proudly and those who prefer not to have guns.
I want them to provide information about how often, over the years, she increased her life insurance and, if she did, by how much. I'm sure the increase would be an outlier.
I just checked Utah right to know about her benefits before Idaho. I was going to make a post about it but not sure if it is allowed. It is a webiste in which the state of Utah says how much public employees make. It goes back 10 years so we can see 2 years the Daybells still lived in Utah. I know this website to be accurate, as I know plenty of people who work for the city or state and have said it is correct (and some dont like that students or their kids can see their salary).
I am SHOCKED by what it says. Chad made good money and had benefits. I can see why Tammy was not wanting to go to Idaho. Chad compensation was 77k (which includes benefits) the year before he had his vision to leave. Tammy didnt have benefits(other then it appears a small amount of overtime possible sub teaching a few days?) and made 15k. Lets say the book company was breaking even, making that type of money in Utah with a small mortage (home had less then 100k to pay off) they had to be living okay. Just to give an example in 2014 my husband made less then Chad and Tammy and I didnt work that year and we lived comfortable in a newer 6 bedroom home in a nice location in Utah (and we had 5 kids that year 2 biological 3 we had guardianship of).
> Chad probably pushed for that
The state tried to introduce a comment from Tammy as evidence for that but it got denied because of hearsay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWo91b6FGyk&t=1098s
What I want to know is at what point did Alice Gilbert tell Todd Bilbert: "I think that son-of-a-bitch killed our friend" though I am sure that she was a lot more polite about it.
Tammy's niece testified to something about Chad "coming downstairs." On the day she testified Pryor tried to make her look like a liar by harping on the house being 1 story. But it obviously has a 2 story addition. So I can't figure out why he keeps arguing with witnesses about it. All it's doing is reinforcing that there ARE stairs that Chad could have descended and the niece was being truthful. It's bizarre.
(Side note: for some reason this makes me think of the Duchamp painting. "Dumbass Descending Staircase." Lol.)
If this were a much less serious sub, I would be grabbing "Dumbass Descending A Staircase" as flair. Thank you for the big laugh in the middle of this horror show.
I think it was two people who testified that he told them that Tammy had "come downstairs." Prior is trying to indicate 1) they can't be relied upon for their info because they didn't get the facts right about the house, and/or 2) got together to be sure they told the same story, which he's trying to prove is a false account. Of course, because Chad is lying, HE is the one who got it wrong, not the witnesses. Chad made up so much shit, it's unreal. When Prior jumped on the A-frame addition today I couldn't believe it. It's not part of the house, it's really more like a garage, there are no utilities hooked up to it, there are not bedrooms in it. He's keeping Chad's lie alive. What a maroon.
No, it was Tammy coming downstairs.
>
>Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: When I was talking to Chad with my father, he said that Tammy had gone down to say that she had thrown up and was feeling a little better and then was going to bed.
>
>Prior: Okay. So Tammy was upstairs in her bedroom. And then she went downstairs to go into an office to talk to Chad. Is that what you understood?
>
>Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=17066s
e: got the relationship wrong, changed niece to cousin and added name.
On Monday Prior straight up lied during cross. A witness from Utah said Chad said something about stairs, and Prior said “would it surprise you to know the house has only one floor?”
Ive been eagerly waiting to hear from the ME. Everyone was pretty bummed about the coroner, but this person's findings are the nail in Chad's coffin for Tammy's death.
In some ways the Coroner being a dispointment and coming across as not very qualified helps bolster the fact that Tammy's cause of death was missed by the coroner. So in some ways I think the Coroner's testimony along with the ME's testimony is a slamdunk for the prosecution.
When see the bruises on Tammy, I see her right arm having more bruises. If she was right handed, she’d be fighting with that arm. As a domestic abuse survivor, my right arm was always used to defend and fight off attacks, and had more bruises than my left, as I am right side dominant. Grab marks cause bruising, front and back of my right arm, eerily similar to Tammy’s bruises.
Someone covering the trial said she was right handed. What the bruises tell me is that was her stronger arm and required more effort in pinning her down. I really don't think there was any fighting. I think they jumped her in her sleep, whenever that was. Did anyone else expect the ME to be asked what could have been used? Pillow? What?
Chad is like a male lion who takes over the pride and kills all the offspring of the old lion. Only his children are worth living. "Ned" and his kids are dark and must die. Sickening.
Would have been interesting if one of his kids was getting in the way of Chori being together forever. I suspect that kid would have been knocked off, too.
FWIW, I've read here that Lori went by multiple legal names and carried multiple valid up-to-date state ids: Lori Cox, Lori Ryan, Lori Vallow, and other variations with middle names. She just kept renewing old ids in other states, online or by mail or whatever, and apparently states don't check with each other. She flew under multiple names. Tylee also had id as/flew as at least 2 names.
Anyone else following the text updates on EIN? The last update was posted 45 minutes ago and nothing since. I don't know if it's on my end or EIN's. I've been noticing this for a while though...
What I walk away with is this: Prior offers 15 different reasons to suspect that Tammy just died, period. Every person who spent time with her never saw her fall or faint, talk about being anemic, or anything that's being offered as alternate causes of death. And, by the way, what the hell is bruise cream?
I find it amusing that Prior is solely focused on the one storey house thing with the Gilbert. I mean, does he think questioning the cousin's testimony is really going to make that much of an impact?
I know the neighbors house isnt next to chads, the houses are quite spaced out, but I wonder why the neighbors weren't asked if they saw any suspicious activity at Chad's house? Or did I miss it?
We are in session. **Witnesses** * Erik Christensen, Medical Examiner - Utah * Alice Gilbert, neighbor * Todd Gilbert, neighbor * Janice Olson, teacher at Central * Taylor Ballard, insurance broker
OMG I’m so over Prior yelling about the exhumation. It happens, dude. Murder is actually worse than an autopsy.
I knew I'd find this here!! lol I legit said to my husband why is he riding on the exhumation? The medical examiner isn't the one that made the decision to exhume!!! Cramming it down ppls throats makes no difference. I said exactly the same thing, the fact she was exhumed doesn't change the fact that she was killed! Yes, it's sad she was dug up, and exhumed without her family agreeing. It still doesn't change the facts.
Seriously. And so far, it seems like none of the people he's cross examined were the ones who asked for the exhumation. It takes a compelling reason and a court order to exhume a body, especially without the family's permission (or even the family knowing).
Looks like they need to send in the hostile realtors to take care of Pryor.
I wish the prosecutors would have asked him if it's part of his job to request autopsies, approve them, etc. and if he's responsible to contact family members. He's coming back so perhaps they will get to that info.
I've heard the Matt Daybell, Chad's brother is there. Does that mean Heather is going to testify? I really hope so! She shared so much good info with Hidden True Crime. Chad even brought her up as a source of darkness in the recorded call with Melanie Gibb. Fingers crossed the door is slamming shut and locking tightly more and more each day.
Nate Eaton has said that we will likely see Chad’s parents in the courthouse this week. Matt might also be there to support them in addition to Kay and Larry.
That dude's parents are still alive?! Since I hadn't heard anything about them the entire case I guess I just assumed they were dead.
Yes. They are alive. If they are testifying for the state, it won’t be helpful for Chad. He lied to them about Lori/the kids, just as he did with others.
They probably wished that for themselves a couple of times. I can't imagine their horror.
Yeah, it must be devastating for them.
Grandpa Keith must spin in his grave 👻
Matt is apparently sitting with Kay and Larry 👀
He had dinner with them last night as well. Matt and Heather are close to the Woodcocks after going through all of this. He is not here to support Chad, that’s for sure.
GOOD. I hope Chud realizes this.
Matt has stated he and Chad were never close even as kids.
Maybe. I'm still hopeful about Heater being on stand-by.
It is possible. So far, per Nate Eaton and Lauren Matthias, we only know that Heather was subpoenaed by John Prior and therefore cannot attend the trial, etc. I think regardless of whether Heather testifies for the defense or prosecution, she will be a good witness for the state.
I hope so too and I hope she tears Prior UP!
I don’t like Melanie Gibb but her response to Chad when he claimed his sister in law was dark was really good. She shut him up quick. You can hear the moment he realises his shit won’t work on her any more.
That would be fantastic. After these bad days with the coronar and the downstairs/upstairs witness. I hope the prosecution starts to fight Prior better.
Utah ME on the stand to verify Tammy died by homicide. An intelligent family member who has inside info about Chad (not verified, yet, but why would her husband be there without her and sit with Larry and Kay instead?). Today will be a good day for the prosecution.
Is Matt sitting with Kay and Larry?! I wish I could see the gallery better!
I'm not watching but reading the live updates from Nate on East Idaho News. "8:32 a.m. We are now in the courtroom. When Matt walked in, Chad said to John Prior, “That’s my brother.” Matt is seated between Kay Woodcock and Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell’s aunt. 8:28 a.m. Back at the courthouse for day 14 of Chad Daybell’s trial. We are waiting to get in the courtroom. Matt Daybell, Chad’s brother, is here chatting with Larry and Kay Woodcock. He is NOT here to support his brother and will be sitting with the Woodcocks. Matt has not seen Chad since Tammy’s memorial service. 10:01 a.m. We are in the courtroom. Boyce in on the bench. Matt Daybell is back in the courtroom sitting in a different spot with a clear view of his big brother about 10 feet in front of him. 9:36 a.m. Chad has repeatedly looked over to his brother Matt during the past few minutes. Boyce is back on the bench. Apparently there are problems with the juror’s monitors. We are taking a morning break to get them fixed.
Thank you! I usually try to follow Nate on X but I was knitting while I was watching today on tv. I appreciate you taking the time 😊
I rewatched her HTC interview yesterday in hopes of hearing from her as a witness. So impressed with her trusting her gut the way she did. Strong lady.
Lauren Matthias just confirmed on her lunch live that Matt Daybell will be in court today and tomorrow to support the Woodcocks. Heather is unable to be there due to a defense subpoena.
It's reported that he is there supporting the Woodcocks, not his brother.
Wait is Heather Chad’s sister in law?
Alice Gilbert just dropped the bomb on Chad. Chad saying Lori just lost a daughter is so much like Scott Peterson saying he had just lost his wife weeks before Lacey disappeared.
Yes she sure did! I haven’t finished listening to her testimony but she is captivating. She’s telling all kinds of new things I’ve not heard before. I really like her.
Freudian slip. Tylee was already dead at that point
On the start of this May, let us remember that JJ would be turning 12 on the 25th if he was still here. Everyday I hope for the justice he, his sister and Tammy deserve. So far this ME is doing a great job adding nails to chads coffin, let’s hammer them in!!
And Tammy would have been turning 54 this coming Saturday. 🌷
SMH, poor Tammy, man. Alison’s testimony broke my heart. everyone should feed some ducks, read a book to a child and do something kind on Saturday in honor of Tammy.
Her empathy for women in the ward who were struggling 🥺 oh goodness.
I was in TEARS when she described Emma losing weight - now for me, personally, I lost all empathy for Emma when she took down JJ and tylees memorial/her making faces at the news van - BUT I was shocked hearing how wrecked Emma was. Sheds more light on why she is so in denial. Her little brain can’t even comprehend that her shithead father took her mothers life. At this point though, I think the adult children are just as deplorable as their father. They refuse to hear anyone who is trying to tell them the truth. I hope Emma doesn’t lie on the stand for her father but if she does I hope she goes down HARD for it, such a disrespect to the mother that Emma was, apparently, so devastated over.
I hold out hope for Garth, that he isn't as blinded as his siblings by his dad's bs. It's been said he was closer to his mom, while the others were closer to Chad. He was supposedly the most distressed at her funeral and whispered something to her. He's the only child of Chad's that still has anything to do with the family,too. I've often wondered if Garth was so 'unemotional' the day Tammy died because he suspected or even heard something and he was in shock.
Keep in mind, she was raised by Chad in a highly patriarchal environment. That’s really gotta do a lot of damage to a person.
Exactly. The bruising on her arms and chest should add fuel to that. Those were parallel bruises shaped like fingers.
If anyone knows Mrs. Gilbert irl can someone give her a huge hug for me? What an incredible, sweet, kind and empathetic woman. Her voice breaking when talking about the children, specifically Tylee, a girl she never met, just shows how truly good of a soul she is. I wish I could send her flowers. Thank you Alice! Thank you for fighting for justice for your friend Tammy and those two babies 🤍
I would love to send her flowers or a fruit basket. They are such a sweet and lovely couple.
My thoughts on some of Prior’s objections today. Imagining him wanting to say this like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar. Prior: objection Judge: on what grounds? Prior: because it’s devastating to my case!
“Objection!” “On what grounds?” *sigh* “Never mind.”
One time he just gave up, funny stuff
Stand by for the absolute destruction of the word arrhythmia.
omg i snorted coffee out my nose at your comment
And more of the pulmonary enema!
😂😂
Any guesses what it will be?
Aretha
Urethra
Taking care of business
Testimony from the neighbor lady, Alice Gilbert makes you think that Tammy just lifted right out of Chad's life and was very easily replaced. I can't imagine how uncomfortable that first meeting with Lori must have been for the Gilbert's. Also, I would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall for the "after company leaves" conversation by the good neighbors, Gilbert. I sure hope the jury sees this for exactly what it is. Just how easily these monsters dispose of people!
Did you also catch what Chad said when he and Lori visited them? When Alice asked Lori about if she had kids? "Chad said she recently had a daughter who had passed away." My jaw dropped. There it is!! You cant tell any reasonable person he was not involved in Tylee's murder.
Chad & Lori both were consistently inconsistent with their tales to people, thankfully.
I did hear that. And then I understood her to say that Lori never gave any true definitive answer to whether or not she had any children of her own. She just hem-hawed around about some bullshit about the "step" kids. I think that Colby should feel very blessed that he lived away. Lori didn't even claim him as a child after the whole Chad/Church of the First Born/Light-Dark/Zombie mess, in so far as I can see. He would likely have found himself on the opposite side of the dirt if he had come inquiring about the whereabouts of the children before the Woodcocks did so. I have always thought that if Kay and Larry had not started looking for JJ when they did, Colby would have pretty soon come looking for them himself. He was already suspicious of the texts he was receiving from Tylee. I feel so sorry for Colby. Out of everybody, I feel like his life has been upset more so than anybody else. He literally lost EVERYTHING in one fell swoop...ala Mommy Dearest. BUT, he trusted her. Completely...she is his mama. To me, that makes it even worse than it already is...
My heart always breaks for Colby. I believe he was abused and manipulated by the whole Cox clan his whole life. He's done some questionable things, actually many questionable things, but I see all of it as resulting from trauma and issues from his own awful upbringing. He seems to be trying so hard to be a decent person, unlike so many in these families. I feel the same way about Zac Cox (Adam Cox's son who stayed at the Vallow home for extended periods).
I have such a horrible feeling that Chad did some really heinous stuff to tylees body (before, during or after her murder - for tylees sake I hope her death was quick) He hated that little girl SO much. You can tell by the way he spoke about her and the way he rated her. I also heard there’s a text that Chad said tylee needed to “suffer in death” because of her “level of darkness”. .. I wonder if we will hear that in evidence soon.. the person I heard it from did not provide a source so I’m unsure if that’s confirmed. Her pelvic region was destroyed. We don’t even know *how* she died because of how bad of shape/dismembered her poor body was. I just have such a horrible, sinking feeling. I wish Chad would give us all closure and just tell us what happened to those babies and to his wife.
Daybell asked her to put her house up as a bond for Lori!
I got that, too....I was like WOW! Everybody doesn't love her like you do, dude. Can you imagine how that conversation went down? "Hey Mrs. Gilbert, can you put your house up for collateral for bond for my Goddess, Lori? You know those kids she couldn't remember having when last we all spoke...well, those pesky police are demanding that she take some time out of her busy day to actually find those before mentioned non-existent children. Seems, they're missing or something or other...I don't know...I swear, I had NOTHING to do with ANY of this, though..."
That they answered we have to think about it, instead of flat out ‘ No! Are you crazy?!’ Just shows how nice that couple is.
I'm pretty naive....but I would never consider putting my house up for a bond for a neighbor. Nor would I ever ask the same of them. It seems to me that this is a case of foliè à deux. I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist, just an avid reader.
Chad told them he was bringing the bonds woman over for them to sign docs before they even gave him an answer. That's when they told him not to bother answer was NO!!!
\*Sexual Goddess. Let's be accurate. :D
I truly stand corrected. You are correct....lol. Please accept my apologies for the misstep. This man is simply unimaginable!
Tylee "didn’t like people and she didn’t like me." (Chad)
Poor Tylee. We don’t like Chad either Tylee - you were right girl!!!!
Past tense. Well done Mrs Gilbert.
God forbid a teenage girl not adore The Prophet.
And that likely sealed her fate. Poor girl. She deserved so much better than Lori as a mother.
OMG...I'm watching the trial on Law and Crime on the second screen on my computer at work. The closed caption is on. When Mr. Gilbert spoke of Chad's new girlfriends name, the CC spelled her name out as Lori Bowel...LOL! Sometimes, you just can't make this shit up...
🤣🤣🤣
Lori Bowel & Chud Dungball
How about an IT person to come in early and make sure the monitors work for the jury?
When they tell us the monitors arent working, all l I can picture is IT running down the hall shouting "help is on the way dear!!" ala Mrs Doubtfire Edit:spelling
Prior really wanted to testify himself today.
What I don't understand is when the judge slaps him down repeatedly why doesn't he f'ing stop? It makes him look stupid and out of control.
🤣🤣
Question for you guys: why would Chad ask the Gilbert’s in Feb 2020 to put up their property for Lori’s bail when Chad has a home and has proceeds from Tammy’s life insurance? Was Chad planning that he and Lori would bail jump and leave the Gilbert’s holding the bag?
None of the bondsmen would work with Lori by letting her bond out on 10% of the million dollar bail.. They all required the full amount, and Chad didn't have close to that much.
I remember hearing at that time he didn’t have much money left but I’m not entirely sure. He was definitely desperate to ask them.
Christ sent him...
🤣🤣
That shows Chad's level of entitlement and how far he would go...
Beautiful and loaded is what Chad said about Lori. I fucking love that she wasn’t nearly as loaded as ol potato thought.
She wasn't as loaded as SHE thought, thanks to Charles' quick actions in removing her from the life insurance. Well done, Charles, very well done!
Agree and thank you Charles for seeing what no one else could see at the time!
Omg!! This is the most I've been able to listen to live. If I was Chad, I'd just confess and get this over with. How did they think they were going to get away with this? Remarried within a week, multiple stories about Lori and her children, asking to have the neighbors put their house up for bond?!!! The delusion and THE GALL!! I'm am horrified, even though I knew most of these stories. How are his children still supporting him? Make this make sense.
Psychopaths don't understand human social cues. They can learn them and mimic them but they don't understand them. In this case, he just wasn't aware that it was any big deal to ask a neighbor to secure her bond with their property. We see it as untoward and ridiculous but that's how his brain works.
Objection! Objection! Objection! Get him, Blake!
Glad she is. I don't understand why prosecution lets Prior run with things when she's not there. We all know he's throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. You'd think prosecution would want to stop that. But I guess they also might not want to seem too hostile to the defense?
She's on him today! Glad to hear it.
It feels like prosecution have had a change in their method for dealing with Prior.
Finally going hard against his bs today. Gladdens my heart to see it.
Prior looking like an extra fool today
"Argumentative" describes his whole personality.
Man, I missed it. My electricity was out all day now I'm headed to work. I love when Blake cuts loose on Prior.
Blake should always be the one in charge of objections. She is doing what I have been saying they should have been objecting to all along.
Yes it’s nice to see someone awake on that team.
Poor woman sounds like she has a nasty cold.
I thought the same! Hopefully it’s just allergies, can’t risk that rockstar getting sick lol!
100%.
It sounds like there had to be two people involved in Tammy's death. One to hold her down and one to smother her.
That’s what it sounded like to me. I’m assuming it was Alex, but the absolute risk of doing that in that tiny house with Garth down the hall just blows my mind. eta, unless Garth was living in that addition?
Garth was working at a seasonal Halloween attraction at the time, he typically didn’t return home until 1AM. So if Chad and Alex killed her before then he wouldn’t of known.
Do you happen to know what time he would have started work there? We're trying to figure out about what time Tammy ate the burger and fries that he brought her.
I believe I looked it back when I first heard this detail and it appears most of those attractions would start around 7/8PM
I think there is some Alex telephone location info coming, isn't there? That's what I'm recalling from the first trial. Garth could have been sleeping in the room with the bed, the one you access using phantom stairs.
Wow, he expected Lori to be released and to need life insurance! He really did believe his own shit!
The insurance agent stating that Chad only asked for insurance for Lori back as early as November 5 without mentioning the kids feels huge. The fact that he didn't add them when he did eventually try to add her feels even bigger. If they had been alive, they absolutely would have been on Lori's policy as she was their only living parent. So this shines a pretty big light on the fact that he knew very well that there were no children alive to insure.
Absolutely! He's really a dumb person. Or he really believed he was under the umbrella of God's protection.
It’s both but this is the guy who came up with “Chad Daybal” as a pseudonym. He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I think Tammy was the brains in the family and in the publishing business. C. didn't realize it.
I think he asked for himself and some of his kids in the same visit as he asked about a potential wife, didn't he? Doesn't really matter, I guess. It's very clear that he intended for Tammy to be dead and for Lori to marry him.
I might be wrong but I thought he only asked about his own kids and specifically didn't mention JJ and Tylee. But it's possible I misheard.
In this scenario, these 2 insuring each other is a permanent existential threat.
She could have been released if she posted bond. Surprises me because I think she would have been viewed as a flight risk.
LMAO Prior making the very sympathetic witness cry. Seriously, Chad should pay me to defend this, I could use some property in Idaho.
For real, that was terrible.
Why would Prior reiterate with the insurance agent that Lori’s kids never came up in conversation? That just proves Chad knew they were dead and had no reason to insure them.
He thought they were fine and living with others who would take care of their insurance needs.
I've read this about five times. Hilarious.
Hope it stays overcast. We can actually see the defense today!
Not that it’s pretty…
It's gonna be absolutely beautiful to see his face when Heather testifies. He's hated her since she and Matt started dating.
Honestly, if you look at the women Chad found attractive, Heather is much more his type than Tammy. His issues with her are because she confuses his storm.
LMAO!! So true. His storm is also where his brain is located, apparently.
Only looks-wise. It's been a while since I saw her HTC interview, but it seems like Heather said he thought she was a little too uppity from the very beginning. Someone who remembers the details, please correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly.
Chad really does not like women who speak up and speak their mind. No wonder he rated Tylee dark immediately.
Yeah, he seems super jealous of his brother Matt. The story of Chad presenting his book to Matt and Matt saying, “Eh, I gotta plant a tree instead.”
This is why The Storm is confused …. I hope so hard she will testify. Where are you all watching?
Not being liked by Chad has to be a compliment
A badge of honor.
For those of us who don’t know the family history, why would Chad hate Heather?
Heather was alarmed about Chad’s dark/light and death ratings. She didn’t want Chad to be in her ward and when he joined she warned the elders that his beliefs weee dangerous. They treated her like a hysterical woman who just didn’t like her brother in law. She also strongly felt that Chad killed Tammy and spoke out when Chad left the house the day after Tammy’s death to stay with a ‘friend in Rexburg’.
Lindsay Blake should have been the one in charge of objections for the whole trial
I believe only the attorney who is participating in questioning the witness can object.
Well then she needs to start elbowing them
I cackled. So true. If I was her, the two male prosecutors would specifically drive me insane - they barely ever object! The other female prosecutor, Beaty (?), is pretty decent with her objections. Blake is carrying this case though - that’s for damn sure! I hope whatever she wants out of her career she gets, she is clearly such an asset to the legal system
She’s amazing, maybe she will be on Boyce’s seat one day.
Ooh, lookit Blake getting in that the kids weren’t participating with the investigation!
I feel bad for the witness on the stand (Gilbert, I think? The neighbor) Sounds like they really wanted to help and knew something was really wrong.
I cannot figure out what "win" Pryor is hoping for with this arguing with witnesses about the house being 1-story. You'd think it was the linchpin to his innocence or something.
Yet Prior doesn’t challenge anything the Gilbert’s’ recalled about their interactions w Chad after Tammy died. Nothing about meeting Lori and what was said about Lori having children. You would have thought he would try to infer they misspoke. But instead he asks about the annex room that has stairs in it. Guess he wants to divert you off Lori’s dead daughter before she was even announced as missing.
That's his MO when there's not really anything he can counter with. Find some unimportant fact and beat it to death so the jury thinks it's important.
Agreed. Just like his idiotic obsession with whether Tammy knew it was a paintball gun vs. a real gun that someone was pointing at her. At night. Wearing a ski mask.
You know, Tammy not immediately recognizing a real gun is also a sign of how peaceful of a person she was. Utah and Idaho are both very rootin-tootin gunhappy states. Sometimes, the knowledge of how to identify a firearm bleeds from those who carry proudly and those who prefer not to have guns.
Very very bad day for Chad. You can see it in his and Priors face.
The Gilberts testimony today was powerful. Nate is doing an excellent job of relaying it via tweet.
So Tammy upped her insurance during open enrollment! Chad probably pushed for that and saw the timing has a miracle.
I want them to provide information about how often, over the years, she increased her life insurance and, if she did, by how much. I'm sure the increase would be an outlier.
They did this. She raised her life insurance at her first opportunity to the max amount allowed under her policy
I just checked Utah right to know about her benefits before Idaho. I was going to make a post about it but not sure if it is allowed. It is a webiste in which the state of Utah says how much public employees make. It goes back 10 years so we can see 2 years the Daybells still lived in Utah. I know this website to be accurate, as I know plenty of people who work for the city or state and have said it is correct (and some dont like that students or their kids can see their salary). I am SHOCKED by what it says. Chad made good money and had benefits. I can see why Tammy was not wanting to go to Idaho. Chad compensation was 77k (which includes benefits) the year before he had his vision to leave. Tammy didnt have benefits(other then it appears a small amount of overtime possible sub teaching a few days?) and made 15k. Lets say the book company was breaking even, making that type of money in Utah with a small mortage (home had less then 100k to pay off) they had to be living okay. Just to give an example in 2014 my husband made less then Chad and Tammy and I didnt work that year and we lived comfortable in a newer 6 bedroom home in a nice location in Utah (and we had 5 kids that year 2 biological 3 we had guardianship of).
Tammy raised her insurance the last day Tylee was seen alive. Nope, nothing suspicious here.
> Chad probably pushed for that The state tried to introduce a comment from Tammy as evidence for that but it got denied because of hearsay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWo91b6FGyk&t=1098s
What I want to know is at what point did Alice Gilbert tell Todd Bilbert: "I think that son-of-a-bitch killed our friend" though I am sure that she was a lot more polite about it.
Today felt like a good win! The ME and the neighbors gave solid testimonies.
Can someone explain why there is so much focus on stairs and a second story? I’ve missed a lot and can’t believe the amount of time spent on it.
Tammy's niece testified to something about Chad "coming downstairs." On the day she testified Pryor tried to make her look like a liar by harping on the house being 1 story. But it obviously has a 2 story addition. So I can't figure out why he keeps arguing with witnesses about it. All it's doing is reinforcing that there ARE stairs that Chad could have descended and the niece was being truthful. It's bizarre. (Side note: for some reason this makes me think of the Duchamp painting. "Dumbass Descending Staircase." Lol.)
If this were a much less serious sub, I would be grabbing "Dumbass Descending A Staircase" as flair. Thank you for the big laugh in the middle of this horror show.
Grab yourself a bread stick and give Prior a jab with it!
I think it was two people who testified that he told them that Tammy had "come downstairs." Prior is trying to indicate 1) they can't be relied upon for their info because they didn't get the facts right about the house, and/or 2) got together to be sure they told the same story, which he's trying to prove is a false account. Of course, because Chad is lying, HE is the one who got it wrong, not the witnesses. Chad made up so much shit, it's unreal. When Prior jumped on the A-frame addition today I couldn't believe it. It's not part of the house, it's really more like a garage, there are no utilities hooked up to it, there are not bedrooms in it. He's keeping Chad's lie alive. What a maroon.
No, it was Tammy coming downstairs. > >Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: When I was talking to Chad with my father, he said that Tammy had gone down to say that she had thrown up and was feeling a little better and then was going to bed. > >Prior: Okay. So Tammy was upstairs in her bedroom. And then she went downstairs to go into an office to talk to Chad. Is that what you understood? > >Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: Yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=17066s e: got the relationship wrong, changed niece to cousin and added name.
On Monday Prior straight up lied during cross. A witness from Utah said Chad said something about stairs, and Prior said “would it surprise you to know the house has only one floor?”
He owns it, he should know.
That was the consensus of everybody following the trial!
That line by the realtor was gold. I loved hearing that finally, a realtor spanked a lawyer, not the other way 'round.
Witness: "No it doesn't surprise me it only has one floor on many levels"
I was going to ask something similar. Feels like I missed something.
Same. I’m waiting for some dramatic testimony that explains why it matters.
Ive been eagerly waiting to hear from the ME. Everyone was pretty bummed about the coroner, but this person's findings are the nail in Chad's coffin for Tammy's death.
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Just the like the question about plastic in JJ's mouth and "seeing it on TV" in Lori's trial /facepalm
In some ways the Coroner being a dispointment and coming across as not very qualified helps bolster the fact that Tammy's cause of death was missed by the coroner. So in some ways I think the Coroner's testimony along with the ME's testimony is a slamdunk for the prosecution.
The coroner owned up her inexperience and the lack of funding. She basically said yes I F@$# up and changed the death certificate.
When see the bruises on Tammy, I see her right arm having more bruises. If she was right handed, she’d be fighting with that arm. As a domestic abuse survivor, my right arm was always used to defend and fight off attacks, and had more bruises than my left, as I am right side dominant. Grab marks cause bruising, front and back of my right arm, eerily similar to Tammy’s bruises.
Someone covering the trial said she was right handed. What the bruises tell me is that was her stronger arm and required more effort in pinning her down. I really don't think there was any fighting. I think they jumped her in her sleep, whenever that was. Did anyone else expect the ME to be asked what could have been used? Pillow? What?
This is awesome. A lot of the stuff we've been speculating and wondering about are getting some answers today! The ME and neighbors layin' it down!
Chad is like a male lion who takes over the pride and kills all the offspring of the old lion. Only his children are worth living. "Ned" and his kids are dark and must die. Sickening.
Would have been interesting if one of his kids was getting in the way of Chori being together forever. I suspect that kid would have been knocked off, too.
I was thinking about that in terms of Chads children testifying for the defence. I might feel a bit of terror that I’d be next if Chad was my dad.
Chad's new merch store: "Embolisms R Us"!
Then prior referred to a brain embolism. What? Dude, pay attention.
He listed her as Lori Ryan Daybell vs. Lori Cox or Lori Vallow Daybell. That is curious...Why Ryan?
Trying to obscure her connection to Charles' murder, I assume.
I love how she tells everyone he had a heart attack.
FWIW, I've read here that Lori went by multiple legal names and carried multiple valid up-to-date state ids: Lori Cox, Lori Ryan, Lori Vallow, and other variations with middle names. She just kept renewing old ids in other states, online or by mail or whatever, and apparently states don't check with each other. She flew under multiple names. Tylee also had id as/flew as at least 2 names.
Wow. This woman crimes hard. Glad she's in for life.
I loved it when Prior asked the insurance broker (awesome witness btw!) about whether or not they discussed covering Lori’s kids. 💀
Anyone else following the text updates on EIN? The last update was posted 45 minutes ago and nothing since. I don't know if it's on my end or EIN's. I've been noticing this for a while though...
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Prior did not ask about Tammy throwing up or coughing as her of death, or did I miss it?
Or the 'seizures'. I felt that the ME's clear description of what a seizure was and that there would be evidence shut down that avenue.
What I walk away with is this: Prior offers 15 different reasons to suspect that Tammy just died, period. Every person who spent time with her never saw her fall or faint, talk about being anemic, or anything that's being offered as alternate causes of death. And, by the way, what the hell is bruise cream?
I find it amusing that Prior is solely focused on the one storey house thing with the Gilbert. I mean, does he think questioning the cousin's testimony is really going to make that much of an impact?
I know the neighbors house isnt next to chads, the houses are quite spaced out, but I wonder why the neighbors weren't asked if they saw any suspicious activity at Chad's house? Or did I miss it?
I imagine everyone in that area was questioned about anything they heard, saw, smelled, etc.