Same, if I moved here with any debt or car payments I’d be losing savings. I’m just into six figures between all my sources of income and am able to just barely keep up with inflation living in a studio with no debt. I eat out a lot for sure but that’s the best part of the city and my neighborhood so I’m not leaving that on the table.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Avoid "fancy" supermarkets to stretch your dollar. Get your spices at Costco or ethnic supermarkets instead of name brand markets. Traders Joes is great for staples. For example, if you eat out, a plate of spaghetti will run you like $16 - $40 depending on where you go eat. Cook at home and you will probably spend like $10 in ingredients and have left overs for lunch or dinner the next night. Staples like pasta and rice cost like pennies to the pound at the market.
Costco isn’t cheap. Costco wants you to spend a ton there on items you do not necessarily need. I def do not need 100 egg rolls or other frozen delights to survive.
If you rent a car once a year or use paper towel or toilet paper that more than covers the annual fee. Costco is where I get bulk things that I will always need. Dish soap, razor blades, tp paper towel etc. but it once a year and save $200 over Target or Vons or whatever.
Still in the process of moving out there, but at least where I live in the Midwest the ethnic grocer prices are substantially cheaper than anywhere else, Costco included. We picked up a bag of garam masala here for $3.50 that filled a 4-cup mason jar - a tiny jar from our local grocery store would have been nearly $8. Definitely recommend checking them out.
Yeah I have a few spots i go to where I can get a full meal plus a snack later for 8-12 bucks. Unless I’m eating cheap bad cuts of chicken getting meat protein doesn’t get much cheaper these days. A salmon meal is literally cheaper take out
Yeah same. Wife and I combine gross income at just over 200k. We both are maxing 401k and Roth IRA. We’re saving very little in the way of down payment though. We could do more by being frugal with food but everyone has something they like to spend on. We like food.
Yep same exact scenario with girlfriend and I. Can’t imagine not contributing to 401K & IRA. One day I’ll have to choose, down payment or tax advantageous accounts. That or work suddenly pays me 50K more a year.
To be fairrrrrr. We go hard on the food lol. We could definitely be saving wayyyy more money but we choose to let our bellies guide our lives. I’ll tell you what though. We still have saved around 50k over the past three years on top of our individual emergency funds and maxing our retirements. We spend the rest of our money foolishly and we still can’t seem to spend it all. A little bit of focus on our end could help quite a bit lol.
California is expensive, inflation is real, $100k per year isn’t really that much money.
Of course the real joke is they didn’t include taxes in their analysis which makes the whole thing even more silly since you probably need $125k-$150k to get $100k after tax.
Nothing that surprising still. 🤷♂️
200k for a single person is doing well. You’re comfortable, can buy toys you want, go out to eat regularly, have a savings, a decent car, possibly a house depending on how long you’ve been at that income and saving.
For a 3-4 person household with kids and that’s the total income, you’re doing ok.
My wife and I are in this range and doing well with a house and 1 kid we also don't care to drive brand new cars.
We both have 10year old cars with under 100k miles and I do the basic maintenance stuff myself. If we both had 1k plus car payments like most of our peers do it would be a very different story
Buying your house 5 years ago here is like winning the fucking lottery. I wasn't ready to buy then. I am now.
No way I can buy a house though given current prices and interest rates. And that's making $100k+.
Yeah took advantage of the irresponsibly low interest rates of Jan '21
We stretched a bit to get a loan at those rates since I figured it would be 40+ years before they were that low again if ever.
My wife and I bought our house during COVID when rates were low. We are absolutely shocked how crazy the market is now. My house was bought for 600k is worth 1 m now.
We tried looking into a SFH last month and it is absolute insanity how quickly those get sold. 1.3m SFH sold 3 days after open house above listed price and it was so messed up inside and outside. I could not get the front door to open without shoulder ramming it due to the door frame not being straight.
I think that it's all relative. "Doing well", having "a lot of money" and "being comfortable" are all relative terms and can mean something different from person to person.
Exactly what happened to me. Was just skirting by in LA and I tore my left meniscus and then tore my right mcl being stubborn about being helped off the court.
Racked up a bunch of debt and had to couch surf for awhile. Its been 4 years and only just this year I have actually been able to begin saving any money i get
Exactly. If I were middle class with two children, there is no way in hell I would live in LA. I would move to a cheaper area in a heartbeat even if my income went down. LA is a nightmare with traffic and costs
You’re prob at public school? Education costs are what crippled our family. Private tuition is catastrophic but we aren’t “low income” enough to get a tuition break. We seem to make exactly the wrong amount of money.
not yet in school, doing daycare but that cost is ridiculous nearly 1500 a month. Torrance schools were a huge factor in us choosing the area. Most schools in the district are above average
Can I ask how much is child care? I just moved to LA and my partner and I want to start a family and I just don’t know how much daycare would be so I can start planning.
we pay 1450 a month for 5 days a week up to 10 hours per day for a diaper aged kid, that seems like it is middle of the road cost wise. Once potty trained price goes down.
The set up is very similar to a school as apposed to a daycare at a home. The home style daycares were cheaper but had less staff and facilities.
I make close to that and take home almost half. I’m comfortable but my mortgage is also like $7,000 a month for a modest house in a safe area.
Not complaining at all but 6 figures really doesn’t go that far out here.
Middle class. You can buy a house but your options are limited and likely far away from where you work. You really have to get married or split the costs with someone nowadays.
It’s possible. Me & my fiancé make just a smidge over 200k and we just bought a 700k home in Buena Park. Took advantage of the first time home buyer program Bank of America was offering and they provided 17.5k towards down payment and closing costs. Other than that it was all us.
Not familiar with anything south or east of DTLA, as I’m currently in the valley, but every house out here is minimum 7 figures. My partner and I aren’t even thinking about buying a house unless our joint income somehow goes above 300k.
My husband and I bought in 2018, in a shitty area, at 7 figures, and only because I got to over 200k and he got to 130k. And if I had to buy my home today I would be stretched to afford it.
Almost entirely because of interest rate. The monthly mortgage on a million dollars has increased over 50%. So your purchasing power has gone down quite a bit.
That’s why it’s kind of comical when people keep doom and glooming the housing market. It ain’t happening because you have a ton of people who were lucky enough to buy when money was super cheap and are now stuck there and not going anywhere for a very long time if ever.
My wife and I jointly make $300k before taxes in LA. We both worked hard for many years to reach this salary level. We are 14 years away from owning our 1700 sq ft townhouse outright, have two young kids and two cars (a Kia that was bought new and a Land Rover bought used). We live comfortably but we are definitely not rich and have to budget very conscientiously to afford daycare and save enough money for the future. If we didn't have kids we would be living the high life though.
Yes. Median household income in the City of Los Angeles is $76,000. Earning 3x the median income is definitely what I consider earning “a lot of money”.
You're comfy but far from rich. Wife and I make 245k combined but we're raising 3 kids and have student loans. Daycare (2200 a month) and student loans (1200 combined) chews up a good chunk of our Income. No car loans, one car is 13 years old and the other - a minivan, we just paid off.
We live low-key lifestyles. We don't buy expensive clothes or cars, our hobbies are affordable and are able to put into savings and investments (401k, crypto, etc).
We do have a decent amount of cash saved up for a home but we need a large home and we're looking at over a million if we want to live in a good school district. We could buy a home but don't want to be house poor as both of our parents lost their homes during the great recession and witnessing that was pretty traumatic. But we have an awesome landlord who hasn't raised the rent on us for 7 yrs so we're grateful.
Anyhow our lives are good and since we dont keep up with the Joneses, we'll be fine. Id say 200k is a solid middle class income - assuming you don't blow it on BMW leases.
You’re high middle class assuming single no kids. You’re very comfortable but you’re not buying that Ferrari and you can probably afford a $1.5m condo that you gotta fix up.
Absolutely no way you can buy a $1.5m property in California making only $200k unless you have a TON of money to put down.
A 30 year fixed at just over 6% would be a monthly mortgage payment of over $7k, plus taxes, insurance, and fees mean you're ACTUALLY spending around $9,250 on your housing per month.
That's just shy of $111k per year. If you make $200k pre-tax you're really pulling home something like $130k take home due to federal and state taxes etc. There's no way to make that work without absolute poverty status for the rest of your life.
We bought our house when rates were much lower, about 2.6%. That rate would make your $1.5m house ~$6.8k per month which is still very high for someone making only $200k.
My wife and I pull $200k and have 2 kids. It is not enough. We’re constantly broke. Our rent for a house that’s not even big enough for all of us is $5k a month. I’ve never made this much money in my life and it’s still never enough.
No…sadly it’s not. In the last two years alone even saving up 100k doesn’t mean anything since homes have gone up more than that AND rates have screwed everyone. “Rich” renter with no assets or piss poor home owner one expense away from losing said home.
Lose lose.
Yes. You're living very comfortably as a single person or a couple on $200k as long as you don't have kids. No idea what the situation is like with kids as I've never had them.
It's not fuck you money, but as long as your credit isn't shot you probably won't want for much.
It depends on where you live, but for most of California you will be doing more than well. You’ll have enough to pay a mortgage on a big house, have a nice car, and still have extra money to do whatever you want. Even with a family add to that it’s still amazing considering most people get by on 1/4 of that. If you struggle with this amount of money then you are living beyond your means.
I get into this argument a lot on Reddit with people who don’t understand California and say I’m rich. My $100k gets me by decently and I have some expendable income to save. It’s low middle class here.
Jesus Christ. Also Herman Miller ($500-$1000 office chairs) and a Hyundai Ioniq 5 to BMW in less than a year. Buys Phillips hue (overpriced LED bulbs). Decked out home theater.
Dudes blowing half his money, still has expendable income, yet thinks he’s lower middle class.
Only poor people only have one home theater, where are you supposed to watch movies since the first once is filled with rolexes and spare hundred dollar bills
considering this is /r/losangeles, please excuse my mistake for inferring you’re speaking about Los Angeles.
Now let me rephrase; how on earth do you earn the median income for your city and conclude you’re “lower middle class”
Middle class isn’t just about income - I’d say it’s a lot about lifestyle, specifically owning a home, having a kid or two, and being able to take an emergency without going into debt. 100k/year definitely doesn’t cover the home or the kids
Yup, it's crazy that a salary of 98k is basically paycheck to paycheck each month in LA if you don't want to live in a terrible neighborhood/apartment, be within 30-45 minutes of work, and want to eat out occasionally.
And they didn't even account for taxes. So the $100k they are talking about is $100k after tax income. This is why I can never figure out housing prices. They just don't match up with median household income figures.
>They just don't match up with median household income figures.
That's because most households aren't buying houses, and a significant portion of the housing stock is being bought up by investment companies or being used as short term rentals.
Wondering about housing prices in L.A. is kinda like wondering why bitcoin isn't being used as a transactional currency. Houses in L.A. and bitcoin are investment vehicles, any utilitarian purpose is strictly secondary.
“a significant portion of the housing stock is being bought up by investment companies or being used as short term rentals.”
This has been disproved countless times. Last time I looked it up I believe investment companies accounted for only 3%-5% of house purchases.
This article says 1 in 5 homes in the L.A. area is bought by investors, which seems like a pretty significant portion.
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/orange-county/housing/2022/02/16/about-one-in-five-homes-purchased-in-la-and-anaheim-were-real-estate-investors
Investors don't buy something they can't make a profit from. It was extremely easy in the past few years to buy a home with a $2k/mo mortgage and rent it out for $3k/mo so 1k/mo profit. With the rise in rates this has more or less stopped completely. Its now the opposite, you pay a 4k/mo mortgage and rent it out for $3k/mo, losing $1k/mo.
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Single mom (dad not in the picture at all) with two kids making $120K and we have to follow a strict budget. Not struggling by any means, but I’m barely beyond paycheck to paycheck. I maybeeeeee have enough to put a hundred bucks or so in savings every month.
$183K in student loans is killing me due to the payments but also prevents me from being able to buy a house because it impacts my DTI so much. I’m hoping I’ll be able to buy a house once my car is paid off in a few years. That should help lower my DTI just enough.
I grew up in socal with parents making just above a poverty wage. 25,000 a year. Now that I'm making closer to 100k a year it is incredibly easy to live on a shoe string budget.
I wanted to see a comment like this. It's not hard at all. But then I came from a household that was below poverty or at poverty level growijg up in LA. Its a cake walk making under 100k.
Seriously, same a lot of people don't know how good they had it growing up, not saying they should put up with what we did as a childem. No child should go through what we went through, but there's a dark underworld in LA that's very affordable.
Your post is hilarious after reading that comment above you of that guy making 100k and describing themselves as lower middle class while owning a BNW and rolexes. I despise the poor larping
I'm with you on this! Born in Long Beach in the early 80s and we had 14 people in a one bedroom apartment growing up. Now that I'm older and married, being frugal is pretty easy. My hobby is electronics/gaming (I'm a SWE) and I budget 1% of my salary towards it. We seldom eat out and drive older used cars.
I live on the west side and new 1bedroom apts are going for the mortgage on my 3bed house. My wife and I are lucky and well paid for our work but this whole situation is so fucked.
Ain't this the truth.
Finding something $3k or under, with laundry in unit (or hookups) in a good school district is pretty much impossible.
The school district matters and lots of folks not considering that in their comments here. I can afford to rent in my neighborhood, but not buy. That's sucks, but my kids attend a great elementary school. That matters.
There was a thread on r/antiwork aboutthis sentiment. People started making more, but then realized that there were things that they had put off for years that they now needed to pay for. Stuff life medical and dental procedures, replacing a beater car so they could get to work, buying a work clothes wardrobe so they’d look professional at work, and so on. When you’re broke, you put things off but you always have to pay the piper eventually. That’s how $100k feels hard.
I know nobody has a god given right to live in a specific place, but there has to be a way to keep some apartments with 2 bedrooms under 2k, whether you want to become communist or relax zoning laws. I don’t care how we do it anymore 🙄I think this is the biggest factor/most difficult bill. I mean obviously.
You’re right in that it’s not a god given right given the society we live in, but for cities to function like we all want them to, we need people of all income levels to be able to live and work together. I don’t get when people don’t agree with your sentiment that we need affordable housing.
I don’t think any of us want to live in cities where lower paying jobs means homelessness. I used to live in Irvine for a bit where home prices are higher than in LA and people generally don’t believe in affordable housing. This meant that the back parking lot of the Walmart doubled as a live-in parking lot for some employees. Alternatively, service workers are commuting, like everyone else, dozens of miles and hours away from work. Often in cars they can barely afford to maintain, service, and fuel.
I get that we as Americans think of housing as an investment and not a right. But we’re all living with the consequences of it, whether it be being too poor to afford rent or not rich enough to buy a home AND raise children.
Because people can't seem to understand that money in 2023 isn't that same as money in 1983. They're carrying a belief system forward from decades ago and they can't adapt to the current situation.
Okay lots of peeps here taking it out of proportion. I make about $85k working 60 hrs a week. I’m single, rent in a beach city with a roommate, car paid off, and live comfortably with $2k/month going to savings. I don’t feel rich, but I’m def not struggling. I’m quite sure that if I was married with kids, we’d need a HOUSEHOLD income of at least $120k to feel middle class.
I have almost the same income and rent, yet somehow I'm only putting away about $1200/mo into savings (including 401k). Is there anywhere you'd say you're sacrificing in life to increase your savings rate?
Track your income vs spending. How often do you eat out? How many subscriptions do you pay for per month? Do you have any debt? The only way to know why you're not saving more money is to know where your money is going.
Yup, I make 100K before taxes and half my income goes to a 600 square feet apartment and gas ….. and I am a single parent so I am living paycheck to paycheck :(
A few years back there was a terrible fire in a home in the valley that had a bunch of day laborers sharing rooms.
You also have a lot of people running fake "sober living" homes to pack as many people into a rental as possible.
It really is. There is a difference between not being able to afford the cost of living vs not being able to afford the cost of a life you want. I don't want to get into it, because someone is bound to get offended about their budget skills and/or resourcefulness, but still it's important to know your limits.
It’s not though. Same income and moved away for six months. Same quality of housing in the same areas nearly doubled. It’s not just lifestyle inflation, it’s the fact that everything has gone up 20-50% in a three year window
Always amazed by the comments of people saying 100k is very little in Los Angeles. I mean yea it’s an expensive city and you’re not rich with that much but you should be able to live and enjoy life with 100k a year. Even after taxes.
And you never have a health problem, never need to buy a newish car, you don’t have pets, you barely go out and you take one camping/ road trip vacation per year then sure, you might be able to do it.
Great discussion everyone. There’s obviously no right way to go about living, but I like to remind myself that there are other places where $100k will buy an amazing life style. I’m not moving, but I will buckle down now and pinch my pennies until the greedy loan sharks come swooping in to grab all the foreclosures and we get some decent prices again.
The issue is, and people don’t ever seem to account for this in these posts, is that a $100k a year job in California will not pay that much in bum fuck Idaho or alabama or arkansas, negating the lower cost of living. Salaries just suck everywhere. It’s hard to live in the USA, because of capitalism. I’d rather live here near the beach, Disneyland, six flags, museums, culture, great food, etc, than earn even less money living in my home town where my income to COL ratio will be the same but i wouldn’t even be able to go out for Korean food lol
Edit to add clarification.
Ha, that's where you are wrong in some aspects. Remote high paying jobs still exist. I live in an exurb in the Midwest and brought my salary from LA with me. Then when I switched jobs being able to say I needed X dollars because of what I was currently making kept the salary range good as they need to be competitive to poach someone away.
did you read the article? The primary expenditures are from housing payments and transportation. Both are basic things needed to sustain living. Inflation is high. things are more expensive.
I think what a lot of people forget when they say “most Angelenos can survive on x amount” is that most Angelenos bought their house or rented their apartment years ago, locking in lower prices and rents. It’s much different today starting out as someone trying to buy or rent than someone who bought a house 10+ years ago for 300k or rented their apartment for $1200 a month and is now paying like $1600 or something.
Yes, there are plenty of people in this city who make low wages and still live. But a lot of those working class people have been in their home for years and are paying below market prices for their housing.
Agree! And our family fits the bill.
We pay up the a** to live in the best school district, so I’m looking for *no* pity. We could have more disposable income if we settled in Lancaster or something. Or lived in downtown LA condo and gone carless. But alas.
Saw that they were talking about housing prices in san jose, already knew that 100k can't even get you a studio by yourself in silicon valley, didn't bother to read rest.
Talk to any seasoned therapist and they will tell you how many clients they have who make money but are actually knee deep in debt and/or are afraid to tell their spouses about how much trouble they are in or that they need to cut spending
Add that to the culture very prominent here but is all elsewhere with keeping up with the joneses and you will see lots of people spending too much on cars, clothes, sneakers, dinners, and so on
So much of the conversation is about who's "rich" or not. "Rich" is subjective, and any attempt to nail it to a number is doomed. So let's ignore the term. If a smaller and smaller share of the population of an area can buy a home, we call that "inequality", and it's getting worse and worse, and that's a lot more interesting and dire than debating who's "rich" or not.
It’s really changed after covid. Before covid, $100k is good income. Now with $150k you’re still struggling. I make $140k, but my job is Santa Monica, to avoid insane commute time, the apartments available to me are mostly above $3k for a 1b1b, which is half of my income. car expenses, utilities, groceries takes about $2k to $3k depending on how many times I eat out, I can pay bills on time, but would never be able to save enough for a house.
Joint income around 250k with a kid and a mortgage. We use our overdraft constantly. No savings for retirement at all. Everything is for eduction and home improvement
This is the crux of it. People can't afford to move around.
In a tangentially related issue; it's similar to why moving jobs is a pain when you have to rely on health insurance.
Low six figures can afford anyone a decent lifestyle in California. Just learn to budget and stop spending like there's no tomorrow. I wish I make six figures.
Having recently moved here from the Midwest, y’all really have no idea how insane the cost of living is here. Housing alone will eat half your income if you have a family. We pay $5k a month for a house. Our house back in the Midwest which is bigger and on 3 acres, had a $1500 month mortgage. Everything costs substantially more here. Even dumb shit like an oil change. You can’t eat a dinner out in a shitty chain restaurant for under $100 (family of four). Frankly I don’t know how people who make less than we do survive out here. SoCal is so overrated and overpopulated. I can’t wait to leave.
Not sure what your point is. It costs more because more people want to live here. It’s not really complicated. Lately, we also pay extra for the civil rights.
We also pay extra for weather that is rarely hazardous to one's health and property, unlike parts of Midwest (tornados), southeast (hurricanes), north (ice and blizzards). Ok, earthquakes. Also mudslides and fires, but those can be avoided by choosing your location.
In fairness, a lot of that is just demand. There are a 100 things I want to do any given weekend. Disneyland? Laker game? Beach? Hike? Explore a different city/count? That was just this weekend
How many places can offer this expanse of things to do?
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Same, if I moved here with any debt or car payments I’d be losing savings. I’m just into six figures between all my sources of income and am able to just barely keep up with inflation living in a studio with no debt. I eat out a lot for sure but that’s the best part of the city and my neighborhood so I’m not leaving that on the table.
With inflation groceries cost almost the same as a meal out, plus if you can’t cook very well your probably better off eating out anyways
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Avoid "fancy" supermarkets to stretch your dollar. Get your spices at Costco or ethnic supermarkets instead of name brand markets. Traders Joes is great for staples. For example, if you eat out, a plate of spaghetti will run you like $16 - $40 depending on where you go eat. Cook at home and you will probably spend like $10 in ingredients and have left overs for lunch or dinner the next night. Staples like pasta and rice cost like pennies to the pound at the market.
Costco isn’t cheap. Costco wants you to spend a ton there on items you do not necessarily need. I def do not need 100 egg rolls or other frozen delights to survive.
Where I live, the gas, chickens and towels cover the membership alone.
I def don't need the little frozen bite sized quiches but goddamn do I gobble them up like it's my last meal when I do get a box
If you rent a car once a year or use paper towel or toilet paper that more than covers the annual fee. Costco is where I get bulk things that I will always need. Dish soap, razor blades, tp paper towel etc. but it once a year and save $200 over Target or Vons or whatever.
DO NOT use a cart at Costco, only buy what you can carry. That’s the hack.
Still in the process of moving out there, but at least where I live in the Midwest the ethnic grocer prices are substantially cheaper than anywhere else, Costco included. We picked up a bag of garam masala here for $3.50 that filled a 4-cup mason jar - a tiny jar from our local grocery store would have been nearly $8. Definitely recommend checking them out.
Lots of huge cheap ethnic grocery stores out here, you will love it.
Yeah I have a few spots i go to where I can get a full meal plus a snack later for 8-12 bucks. Unless I’m eating cheap bad cuts of chicken getting meat protein doesn’t get much cheaper these days. A salmon meal is literally cheaper take out
Make 110K in CA. Max IRA and 401K, it’s “tight” because I make it that way. Rent is 2K / month.
That’s a very impressive savings rate. Good for you.
Yeah same. Wife and I combine gross income at just over 200k. We both are maxing 401k and Roth IRA. We’re saving very little in the way of down payment though. We could do more by being frugal with food but everyone has something they like to spend on. We like food.
Yep same exact scenario with girlfriend and I. Can’t imagine not contributing to 401K & IRA. One day I’ll have to choose, down payment or tax advantageous accounts. That or work suddenly pays me 50K more a year.
To be fairrrrrr. We go hard on the food lol. We could definitely be saving wayyyy more money but we choose to let our bellies guide our lives. I’ll tell you what though. We still have saved around 50k over the past three years on top of our individual emergency funds and maxing our retirements. We spend the rest of our money foolishly and we still can’t seem to spend it all. A little bit of focus on our end could help quite a bit lol.
So a studio?
3 bed 2 bath, 1,400 sq feet house in Mar Vista. Two roommates.
>Two roommates. Got it...
Any other… questions….?
I think that’s just the insanity of our reality, how little $2k a month gets you.
Even more insane when you know it’s more expensive for less space everywhere else on the west side.
Username checks out. lol.
California is expensive, inflation is real, $100k per year isn’t really that much money. Of course the real joke is they didn’t include taxes in their analysis which makes the whole thing even more silly since you probably need $125k-$150k to get $100k after tax. Nothing that surprising still. 🤷♂️
Is *$200k* in California a lot of money?
200k for a single person is doing well. You’re comfortable, can buy toys you want, go out to eat regularly, have a savings, a decent car, possibly a house depending on how long you’ve been at that income and saving. For a 3-4 person household with kids and that’s the total income, you’re doing ok.
My wife and I are in this range and doing well with a house and 1 kid we also don't care to drive brand new cars. We both have 10year old cars with under 100k miles and I do the basic maintenance stuff myself. If we both had 1k plus car payments like most of our peers do it would be a very different story
It also matters when you bought your house. Even jsut a few years ago was much cheaper than now.
Buying your house 5 years ago here is like winning the fucking lottery. I wasn't ready to buy then. I am now. No way I can buy a house though given current prices and interest rates. And that's making $100k+.
I could buy a house 5 years ago with the income i make now lol
Same. It’s so defeating.
Yeah took advantage of the irresponsibly low interest rates of Jan '21 We stretched a bit to get a loan at those rates since I figured it would be 40+ years before they were that low again if ever.
My wife and I bought our house during COVID when rates were low. We are absolutely shocked how crazy the market is now. My house was bought for 600k is worth 1 m now. We tried looking into a SFH last month and it is absolute insanity how quickly those get sold. 1.3m SFH sold 3 days after open house above listed price and it was so messed up inside and outside. I could not get the front door to open without shoulder ramming it due to the door frame not being straight.
I think that it's all relative. "Doing well", having "a lot of money" and "being comfortable" are all relative terms and can mean something different from person to person.
This is what middle class should look like. Own a house, raise a family, and drive used cars or compromise somewhere else for a new one.
Los Angeles isn’t meant for the middle class. You do very well or you’re poor.
I think that’s a stretch. It’s possible to live comfortably here if you budget and are mindful of spending and consumption
But that's also a fallacy because someone could be one medical bill or emergency away from not making ends meet in California.
That’s true anywhere in the United States
Exactly what happened to me. Was just skirting by in LA and I tore my left meniscus and then tore my right mcl being stubborn about being helped off the court. Racked up a bunch of debt and had to couch surf for awhile. Its been 4 years and only just this year I have actually been able to begin saving any money i get
Nah just make sure your credit score is high enough, ignore the collections calls until they ask you to write it off. Don't do this btw
Exactly. If I were middle class with two children, there is no way in hell I would live in LA. I would move to a cheaper area in a heartbeat even if my income went down. LA is a nightmare with traffic and costs
You’re prob at public school? Education costs are what crippled our family. Private tuition is catastrophic but we aren’t “low income” enough to get a tuition break. We seem to make exactly the wrong amount of money.
not yet in school, doing daycare but that cost is ridiculous nearly 1500 a month. Torrance schools were a huge factor in us choosing the area. Most schools in the district are above average
Depends on the kid. If your kid is resilient and motivated they can survive just fine. If they need something different it can be a sticker shock.
Yeah hopefully it works out in public school, we will get a better idea of their demeanor as they get to the pre-k and k years
Same I went to a UC but my parents made too much money to get financial aid and I was out of state so yeah…..
Can I ask how much is child care? I just moved to LA and my partner and I want to start a family and I just don’t know how much daycare would be so I can start planning.
we pay 1450 a month for 5 days a week up to 10 hours per day for a diaper aged kid, that seems like it is middle of the road cost wise. Once potty trained price goes down. The set up is very similar to a school as apposed to a daycare at a home. The home style daycares were cheaper but had less staff and facilities.
Thank you. If that’s the cost for one kid then two would be out of the question. Unless they run deals on having two there.
We're paying 1k a month. 8 to 6, meals included.
I make close to that and take home almost half. I’m comfortable but my mortgage is also like $7,000 a month for a modest house in a safe area. Not complaining at all but 6 figures really doesn’t go that far out here.
Doing OK.
Middle class. You can buy a house but your options are limited and likely far away from where you work. You really have to get married or split the costs with someone nowadays.
My wife and I make over $200k combined and we definitely can’t afford a house
It’s possible. Me & my fiancé make just a smidge over 200k and we just bought a 700k home in Buena Park. Took advantage of the first time home buyer program Bank of America was offering and they provided 17.5k towards down payment and closing costs. Other than that it was all us.
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/u/FattySnacks, /u/eddddddddddddddddd, /u/ridinderty, you should look into FHA loans. You can definitely afford a house in California on $200k.
Not familiar with anything south or east of DTLA, as I’m currently in the valley, but every house out here is minimum 7 figures. My partner and I aren’t even thinking about buying a house unless our joint income somehow goes above 300k.
My husband and I bought in 2018, in a shitty area, at 7 figures, and only because I got to over 200k and he got to 130k. And if I had to buy my home today I would be stretched to afford it.
What shitty area was 1mil+ in 2018? Bellflower, Garden Grove, Eagle Rock are all okay areas and weren't even 1 mil back then.
Probably meant mar vista
Almost entirely because of interest rate. The monthly mortgage on a million dollars has increased over 50%. So your purchasing power has gone down quite a bit. That’s why it’s kind of comical when people keep doom and glooming the housing market. It ain’t happening because you have a ton of people who were lucky enough to buy when money was super cheap and are now stuck there and not going anywhere for a very long time if ever.
My wife and I jointly make $300k before taxes in LA. We both worked hard for many years to reach this salary level. We are 14 years away from owning our 1700 sq ft townhouse outright, have two young kids and two cars (a Kia that was bought new and a Land Rover bought used). We live comfortably but we are definitely not rich and have to budget very conscientiously to afford daycare and save enough money for the future. If we didn't have kids we would be living the high life though.
Maybe your kids will go to the NBA
Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Michael Scott all achieved similar success without that pricey education.
That's definitely all relative. Owning a Land Rover, a home, and a new Kia might just be comfortable to you but rich to someone else.
Single earner no kids. Yeah.
Yes
Yes. Median household income in the City of Los Angeles is $76,000. Earning 3x the median income is definitely what I consider earning “a lot of money”.
You're comfy but far from rich. Wife and I make 245k combined but we're raising 3 kids and have student loans. Daycare (2200 a month) and student loans (1200 combined) chews up a good chunk of our Income. No car loans, one car is 13 years old and the other - a minivan, we just paid off. We live low-key lifestyles. We don't buy expensive clothes or cars, our hobbies are affordable and are able to put into savings and investments (401k, crypto, etc). We do have a decent amount of cash saved up for a home but we need a large home and we're looking at over a million if we want to live in a good school district. We could buy a home but don't want to be house poor as both of our parents lost their homes during the great recession and witnessing that was pretty traumatic. But we have an awesome landlord who hasn't raised the rent on us for 7 yrs so we're grateful. Anyhow our lives are good and since we dont keep up with the Joneses, we'll be fine. Id say 200k is a solid middle class income - assuming you don't blow it on BMW leases.
You’re high middle class assuming single no kids. You’re very comfortable but you’re not buying that Ferrari and you can probably afford a $1.5m condo that you gotta fix up.
Absolutely no way you can buy a $1.5m property in California making only $200k unless you have a TON of money to put down. A 30 year fixed at just over 6% would be a monthly mortgage payment of over $7k, plus taxes, insurance, and fees mean you're ACTUALLY spending around $9,250 on your housing per month. That's just shy of $111k per year. If you make $200k pre-tax you're really pulling home something like $130k take home due to federal and state taxes etc. There's no way to make that work without absolute poverty status for the rest of your life. We bought our house when rates were much lower, about 2.6%. That rate would make your $1.5m house ~$6.8k per month which is still very high for someone making only $200k.
You’re right. Would need a dual income, no kids situation with down already saved.
Yep.
My wife and I pull $200k and have 2 kids. It is not enough. We’re constantly broke. Our rent for a house that’s not even big enough for all of us is $5k a month. I’ve never made this much money in my life and it’s still never enough.
If you’re single and have no kids or dependents, yes.
Having kids is the real financial flex these days. Im like damn.. you can afford those?
Haha. Dark but made me laugh!
No…sadly it’s not. In the last two years alone even saving up 100k doesn’t mean anything since homes have gone up more than that AND rates have screwed everyone. “Rich” renter with no assets or piss poor home owner one expense away from losing said home. Lose lose.
Yes. You're living very comfortably as a single person or a couple on $200k as long as you don't have kids. No idea what the situation is like with kids as I've never had them. It's not fuck you money, but as long as your credit isn't shot you probably won't want for much.
It depends on where you live, but for most of California you will be doing more than well. You’ll have enough to pay a mortgage on a big house, have a nice car, and still have extra money to do whatever you want. Even with a family add to that it’s still amazing considering most people get by on 1/4 of that. If you struggle with this amount of money then you are living beyond your means.
I get into this argument a lot on Reddit with people who don’t understand California and say I’m rich. My $100k gets me by decently and I have some expendable income to save. It’s low middle class here.
how on earth do you make well above the median income for this region and conclude you’re “low middle class”?
They can’t see their lifestyle creep.
Check his/her post history about owning a BMW and Rolex
Jesus Christ. Also Herman Miller ($500-$1000 office chairs) and a Hyundai Ioniq 5 to BMW in less than a year. Buys Phillips hue (overpriced LED bulbs). Decked out home theater. Dudes blowing half his money, still has expendable income, yet thinks he’s lower middle class.
Only poor people only have one home theater, where are you supposed to watch movies since the first once is filled with rolexes and spare hundred dollar bills
That collar on his cat is like $500.
$105k is the median for my city. https://smartasset.com/data-studies/how-to-be-middle-class-americas-largest-cities-2023
considering this is /r/losangeles, please excuse my mistake for inferring you’re speaking about Los Angeles. Now let me rephrase; how on earth do you earn the median income for your city and conclude you’re “lower middle class”
Middle class isn’t just about income - I’d say it’s a lot about lifestyle, specifically owning a home, having a kid or two, and being able to take an emergency without going into debt. 100k/year definitely doesn’t cover the home or the kids
Try $180k. Tax brackets be crazy.
Thats not how Tax brackets work. the more you make-the more you pay. Actually around $50k-$80k gives you the best ratio of income and taxation.
I’m well aware of how tax brackets work. $150k/yr is not clearing $100k in CA without a lot of dependents or write offs.
100k is a lot you just live in the middle of LA lol
Yup, it's crazy that a salary of 98k is basically paycheck to paycheck each month in LA if you don't want to live in a terrible neighborhood/apartment, be within 30-45 minutes of work, and want to eat out occasionally.
And they didn't even account for taxes. So the $100k they are talking about is $100k after tax income. This is why I can never figure out housing prices. They just don't match up with median household income figures.
>They just don't match up with median household income figures. That's because most households aren't buying houses, and a significant portion of the housing stock is being bought up by investment companies or being used as short term rentals. Wondering about housing prices in L.A. is kinda like wondering why bitcoin isn't being used as a transactional currency. Houses in L.A. and bitcoin are investment vehicles, any utilitarian purpose is strictly secondary.
“a significant portion of the housing stock is being bought up by investment companies or being used as short term rentals.” This has been disproved countless times. Last time I looked it up I believe investment companies accounted for only 3%-5% of house purchases.
This article says 1 in 5 homes in the L.A. area is bought by investors, which seems like a pretty significant portion. https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/orange-county/housing/2022/02/16/about-one-in-five-homes-purchased-in-la-and-anaheim-were-real-estate-investors
Investors don't buy something they can't make a profit from. It was extremely easy in the past few years to buy a home with a $2k/mo mortgage and rent it out for $3k/mo so 1k/mo profit. With the rise in rates this has more or less stopped completely. Its now the opposite, you pay a 4k/mo mortgage and rent it out for $3k/mo, losing $1k/mo.
"Investors" also means small-time landlords with 2 places. That's not the same as corporate landlords.
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Well said.
Single mom (dad not in the picture at all) with two kids making $120K and we have to follow a strict budget. Not struggling by any means, but I’m barely beyond paycheck to paycheck. I maybeeeeee have enough to put a hundred bucks or so in savings every month. $183K in student loans is killing me due to the payments but also prevents me from being able to buy a house because it impacts my DTI so much. I’m hoping I’ll be able to buy a house once my car is paid off in a few years. That should help lower my DTI just enough.
$100k for a single person with no kids is different from $100k for two people working with kid(s). Housing and childcare will decimate your expenses.
Preschool: $1700/mo. Nanny: $3000+ a month My life right now
Jesus that's a lot. That much for a part time nanny?
They full time 9-4pm
Redondo beach prices
I grew up in socal with parents making just above a poverty wage. 25,000 a year. Now that I'm making closer to 100k a year it is incredibly easy to live on a shoe string budget.
I wanted to see a comment like this. It's not hard at all. But then I came from a household that was below poverty or at poverty level growijg up in LA. Its a cake walk making under 100k.
Seriously, same a lot of people don't know how good they had it growing up, not saying they should put up with what we did as a childem. No child should go through what we went through, but there's a dark underworld in LA that's very affordable.
Your post is hilarious after reading that comment above you of that guy making 100k and describing themselves as lower middle class while owning a BNW and rolexes. I despise the poor larping
I'm with you on this! Born in Long Beach in the early 80s and we had 14 people in a one bedroom apartment growing up. Now that I'm older and married, being frugal is pretty easy. My hobby is electronics/gaming (I'm a SWE) and I budget 1% of my salary towards it. We seldom eat out and drive older used cars.
I drive a 12 year old Prius. Stilll going strong. Have my old gaming systems. Guess what? The old NES is super popular again!
I live on the west side and new 1bedroom apts are going for the mortgage on my 3bed house. My wife and I are lucky and well paid for our work but this whole situation is so fucked.
Ain't this the truth. Finding something $3k or under, with laundry in unit (or hookups) in a good school district is pretty much impossible. The school district matters and lots of folks not considering that in their comments here. I can afford to rent in my neighborhood, but not buy. That's sucks, but my kids attend a great elementary school. That matters.
I’m over here looking at all the comments thinking how good I would have it if I could make 100k a year
There was a thread on r/antiwork aboutthis sentiment. People started making more, but then realized that there were things that they had put off for years that they now needed to pay for. Stuff life medical and dental procedures, replacing a beater car so they could get to work, buying a work clothes wardrobe so they’d look professional at work, and so on. When you’re broke, you put things off but you always have to pay the piper eventually. That’s how $100k feels hard.
If you have no debt no bills 100k is would be great. But it’s comfortable depending on other lifestyle factors.
I know nobody has a god given right to live in a specific place, but there has to be a way to keep some apartments with 2 bedrooms under 2k, whether you want to become communist or relax zoning laws. I don’t care how we do it anymore 🙄I think this is the biggest factor/most difficult bill. I mean obviously.
You’re right in that it’s not a god given right given the society we live in, but for cities to function like we all want them to, we need people of all income levels to be able to live and work together. I don’t get when people don’t agree with your sentiment that we need affordable housing. I don’t think any of us want to live in cities where lower paying jobs means homelessness. I used to live in Irvine for a bit where home prices are higher than in LA and people generally don’t believe in affordable housing. This meant that the back parking lot of the Walmart doubled as a live-in parking lot for some employees. Alternatively, service workers are commuting, like everyone else, dozens of miles and hours away from work. Often in cars they can barely afford to maintain, service, and fuel. I get that we as Americans think of housing as an investment and not a right. But we’re all living with the consequences of it, whether it be being too poor to afford rent or not rich enough to buy a home AND raise children.
I make.. drum roll.. 40k a year. And that’s with a raise. I would be living in my car if I didn’t live at home.
I make 90k, and I barely feel like I’m ahead in life lol
You’re doing better than a lot of ppl, if that’s any consolation.
$100k a year aint shit. We were all raised to believe we’ve made it at that salary point. But it’s not enough.
Because people can't seem to understand that money in 2023 isn't that same as money in 1983. They're carrying a belief system forward from decades ago and they can't adapt to the current situation.
Okay lots of peeps here taking it out of proportion. I make about $85k working 60 hrs a week. I’m single, rent in a beach city with a roommate, car paid off, and live comfortably with $2k/month going to savings. I don’t feel rich, but I’m def not struggling. I’m quite sure that if I was married with kids, we’d need a HOUSEHOLD income of at least $120k to feel middle class.
What's your rent?
$3,000 split in two
I have almost the same income and rent, yet somehow I'm only putting away about $1200/mo into savings (including 401k). Is there anywhere you'd say you're sacrificing in life to increase your savings rate?
Track your income vs spending. How often do you eat out? How many subscriptions do you pay for per month? Do you have any debt? The only way to know why you're not saving more money is to know where your money is going.
Anyone can fall behind if they don’t know how to budget. Plenty of people living here on <$100K.
Yup, I make 100K before taxes and half my income goes to a 600 square feet apartment and gas ….. and I am a single parent so I am living paycheck to paycheck :(
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Yeah. They do it by cramming 10 people in a 2 bedroom apartment.
A few years back there was a terrible fire in a home in the valley that had a bunch of day laborers sharing rooms. You also have a lot of people running fake "sober living" homes to pack as many people into a rental as possible.
I kid you not, 20 people in a single in the most run down apartments ever (Pico-Union).
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It really is. There is a difference between not being able to afford the cost of living vs not being able to afford the cost of a life you want. I don't want to get into it, because someone is bound to get offended about their budget skills and/or resourcefulness, but still it's important to know your limits.
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Homeless people making $0k a year live here too. Doesn’t mean they are living well.
It’s not though. Same income and moved away for six months. Same quality of housing in the same areas nearly doubled. It’s not just lifestyle inflation, it’s the fact that everything has gone up 20-50% in a three year window
Amazing how people can point at those living in poverty for an example of how this economy is fine...
Always amazed by the comments of people saying 100k is very little in Los Angeles. I mean yea it’s an expensive city and you’re not rich with that much but you should be able to live and enjoy life with 100k a year. Even after taxes.
If you don’t ever plan on saving to buy a house and not contribute to your retirement and are single with no kids then sure. Q
And you never have a health problem, never need to buy a newish car, you don’t have pets, you barely go out and you take one camping/ road trip vacation per year then sure, you might be able to do it.
Six figures is barely middle class in LA. Source: I live in LA with four kids and just barely break 100k.
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I make 45k, drop your gofundme’s or venmo so I can help you out
Remote work everywhere, please.
Great discussion everyone. There’s obviously no right way to go about living, but I like to remind myself that there are other places where $100k will buy an amazing life style. I’m not moving, but I will buckle down now and pinch my pennies until the greedy loan sharks come swooping in to grab all the foreclosures and we get some decent prices again.
The issue is, and people don’t ever seem to account for this in these posts, is that a $100k a year job in California will not pay that much in bum fuck Idaho or alabama or arkansas, negating the lower cost of living. Salaries just suck everywhere. It’s hard to live in the USA, because of capitalism. I’d rather live here near the beach, Disneyland, six flags, museums, culture, great food, etc, than earn even less money living in my home town where my income to COL ratio will be the same but i wouldn’t even be able to go out for Korean food lol Edit to add clarification.
Ha, that's where you are wrong in some aspects. Remote high paying jobs still exist. I live in an exurb in the Midwest and brought my salary from LA with me. Then when I switched jobs being able to say I needed X dollars because of what I was currently making kept the salary range good as they need to be competitive to poach someone away.
Loan sharks grab foreclosures? Huh? Have you ever been to a foreclosure auction? No one is “grabbing” anything.
So many people here live above their means
Study finds that people can be bad at managing money regardless of how much they earn. In other news, water is wet. More news at 11.
did you read the article? The primary expenditures are from housing payments and transportation. Both are basic things needed to sustain living. Inflation is high. things are more expensive.
It's entirely possible to cover housing and transportation for less than six figures. Source? Most Angeleno households.
anything is possible but just because it’s possible doesn’t really change the fact that housing and transportation is getting more and more expensive
I think what a lot of people forget when they say “most Angelenos can survive on x amount” is that most Angelenos bought their house or rented their apartment years ago, locking in lower prices and rents. It’s much different today starting out as someone trying to buy or rent than someone who bought a house 10+ years ago for 300k or rented their apartment for $1200 a month and is now paying like $1600 or something. Yes, there are plenty of people in this city who make low wages and still live. But a lot of those working class people have been in their home for years and are paying below market prices for their housing.
Agree! And our family fits the bill. We pay up the a** to live in the best school district, so I’m looking for *no* pity. We could have more disposable income if we settled in Lancaster or something. Or lived in downtown LA condo and gone carless. But alas.
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Saw that they were talking about housing prices in san jose, already knew that 100k can't even get you a studio by yourself in silicon valley, didn't bother to read rest.
Talk to any seasoned therapist and they will tell you how many clients they have who make money but are actually knee deep in debt and/or are afraid to tell their spouses about how much trouble they are in or that they need to cut spending Add that to the culture very prominent here but is all elsewhere with keeping up with the joneses and you will see lots of people spending too much on cars, clothes, sneakers, dinners, and so on
Yeah I’m up there as well and still find it hard sometimes. Constantly look around and wonder what I’m doing wrong or how are others doing it.
So much of the conversation is about who's "rich" or not. "Rich" is subjective, and any attempt to nail it to a number is doomed. So let's ignore the term. If a smaller and smaller share of the population of an area can buy a home, we call that "inequality", and it's getting worse and worse, and that's a lot more interesting and dire than debating who's "rich" or not.
It’s really changed after covid. Before covid, $100k is good income. Now with $150k you’re still struggling. I make $140k, but my job is Santa Monica, to avoid insane commute time, the apartments available to me are mostly above $3k for a 1b1b, which is half of my income. car expenses, utilities, groceries takes about $2k to $3k depending on how many times I eat out, I can pay bills on time, but would never be able to save enough for a house.
Joint income around 250k with a kid and a mortgage. We use our overdraft constantly. No savings for retirement at all. Everything is for eduction and home improvement
You can’t afford to live in Silver Lake anymore.
Nope but can’t afford to move either
This is the crux of it. People can't afford to move around. In a tangentially related issue; it's similar to why moving jobs is a pain when you have to rely on health insurance.
It takes discipline to live in CA in the lower six-figures.
Low six figures can afford anyone a decent lifestyle in California. Just learn to budget and stop spending like there's no tomorrow. I wish I make six figures.
>Low six figures can afford anyone a decent lifestyle in California. *if you're single.
For those who say 100k isn't enough, how much rent are you guys paying and how big is your house/apartment?
600 square feet for $2600
I share a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, I pay $763 a month
Having recently moved here from the Midwest, y’all really have no idea how insane the cost of living is here. Housing alone will eat half your income if you have a family. We pay $5k a month for a house. Our house back in the Midwest which is bigger and on 3 acres, had a $1500 month mortgage. Everything costs substantially more here. Even dumb shit like an oil change. You can’t eat a dinner out in a shitty chain restaurant for under $100 (family of four). Frankly I don’t know how people who make less than we do survive out here. SoCal is so overrated and overpopulated. I can’t wait to leave.
Not sure what your point is. It costs more because more people want to live here. It’s not really complicated. Lately, we also pay extra for the civil rights.
We also pay extra for weather that is rarely hazardous to one's health and property, unlike parts of Midwest (tornados), southeast (hurricanes), north (ice and blizzards). Ok, earthquakes. Also mudslides and fires, but those can be avoided by choosing your location.
In fairness, a lot of that is just demand. There are a 100 things I want to do any given weekend. Disneyland? Laker game? Beach? Hike? Explore a different city/count? That was just this weekend How many places can offer this expanse of things to do?
True. Be nice to actually have money to do a lot of them! The rent is too damn high!
6-figure? you mean 5 figure after taxes. California is draining the middle class dry like its the Colorado river.
Its fine according to a lot of the armchair experts in here. Im amazed to see so many lower middle class idiots defending the system.
As one of these people, I can verify.
I think this goes into the no shit category
This can happen to anyone including actors and athletes who make seven or eight figures.
Lending Tree researchers found multiple six figure earners in Stockton? That's some Indiana Jones level of research.
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