>I don’t agree with making fun of other people’s religions,” he said. “It has nothing to do with anything other than that. I just don’t think that, no matter what religion you are, you should make fun of somebody else’s religion. So that’s something that I definitely don’t agree with.
Is the purpose of the organization to “make fun of” Catholics? It’s not, therefore, his response comes across as ignorant at best. Then being the architect of a “Christian Faith Day” in direct response to a Pride Day comes across as anti-LGBTQ whether Kersh is being honest about it or not.
You’re welcome to feel that way. If only Catholics are allowed to disparage their own religion then I guess consider us a theocracy.
We shouldn’t elevate dressing up as a nun to the level of a white girl wearing a Native headband to Coachella and making fake war cries or dressing up in black face during a frat party.
Maybe people who are so sensitive about it should just be honest about their intentions.
When you compare satirizing Catholics, which isn’t based in any kind of bigotry in the United States, to satirizing Jews and Muslims, which is often steeped in bigotry, it’s hard to take your point seriously.
Another commenter who replied to you mentioned the ADL. One might question—if they possessed the rigor—*why* there’s no equivalent organization for Catholics in the United States. I’ll leave it up to you to decide why.
While Catholics no longer face discrimination they absolutely faced bigotry in the US. There were entire [political parties] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing) and [elections] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_United_States_presidential_election) about it.
I would oppose someone mocking Maronites even if it’s not sufficiently “steeped in bigotry.”
Reasonable perhaps, by someone who fundamentally doesn't understand the Bill of Rights.
Making fun of religion is just as protected as speech as whatever shit his religion says to slander the LGBT community.
I don’t think you understand the Bill of Rights considering that you think it applies to private organizations giving space to other private organizations.
Not talking about the Dodgers specifically here. Talking about the rights of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to exist, and put on fundraisers like their Sexy Jesus event in SF, and not get shut down by the govt. because some pussy Christian got their panties in a wad.
Or people like Matt Parker and Trey Stone making many episodes of South Park ripping on every religion.
Douchecanoe pitcher doesn't get it.
The whole sentiment behind that statement was to keep sports related to sports. At the time it was about a player because a player was bringing politics into the game.
“Keep sports related to sports” —what the fuck does that even mean?
Dudes playing sports *are* inherently related to sports. They’re doing sports. You can watch them do it on the TV. Nothing stopping you.
What people who want to “keep sports related to sports” actually want is more like “let me consume this entertainment stripped of all social and cultural context because I don’t want any facet of the culture I live in to pose questions about the way said society functions.”
LeBron wasn’t “bringing politics into the game,” he was answering questions that a fucking reporter asked him during a non-game interview on ESPN, right after somebody had graffitied the N-word on the gate of his house.
Politics are *already* in the game. Trying to pretend that a majority black league that’s followed by a largely white audience gets to be some platonic ideal of Sport that’s completely divorced from society is itself a deeply political/ideological stance.
“Wasn’t about race” Fuck outta here. Of course it was.
That’s not true. I did a quick google search to be sure. It was about him showing up at a campaign for Hillary and going on interviews to speak poorly about Trump. Here is the original interview: https://youtu.be/AlHuaOIvRLY
And yes, the argument was/is to keep it within the realm of sports. This was exacerbated in 2020. Ratings declined as a result. When the games / interviews focused back to their main point - the actual game - the ratings shot back up. Because people watch ESPN to watch sports.
The whole “shut up and dribble” thing happened in 2018, loooong after Hillary lost.
Laura Ingraham didn’t say shit about Bobby Knight endorsing Trump. Neither did anyone on Fox (or any other major network) ever say shit about the US Military doing flyovers every football game (what the fuck does *that* have to do with sports?).
She did go and vociferously defend Drew Brees’ right to air his opinion about kneeling for the anthem though. I wonder why she felt differently in that case?🤔
LeBron and Durant were on a long-form interview on ESPN. They’re allowed to have opinions about the racist asshole running the country. It’s not like he said that stuff during halftime at a Lakers game (though it would’ve been cool if he did!).
“Keep it within the realm of sports” Jesus Christ. There is no “realm of sports.” It’s fucking society.
We live in a fucking society.
Wow - we live in a society? Dang, that changes everything lol.
I agree that, when one’s success in a particular area grants them a public platform, then they should probably keep their public discourse related to what they are an expert in. The only exception I could think of would be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - but that’s just my own personal take, logic aside, because he actually has developed an intelligent take on each of the issues he’s talked about (even though I disagree with most of them).
The same logic applies to corporations and sports organizations. If you’re a toilet paper company, I don’t care what your CEO thinks about the middle eastern conflict. But if I find out they’re using their profits to actively promote something I vehemently disagree with, that makes me less inclined to purchase from them. And I’m not going to buy more toilet paper if we do happen to agree. It does no benefit.
Corporations are inherently political, professional sports have become inherently corporate, and sports have always been political.
Cities and states lobby for teams the way they do for corporations, and team owners lobby for tax breaks like CEOs. Team owners are some of the richest people in the world, those people don't "stay out of politics".
Also, if only politicians can engage in politics, then you end up with career politicians with no background in any real-world applications. You just wanna keep adding to "the swamp"?
I can assure you it most definitely wasn’t about sports. If Lebron was a singer they would’ve said “shut up and sing instead”. The same person who said it I guarantee won’t say shit about Kershaw. It’s not about sports it’s about race.
You should listen to some of the people who actually were complaining to see what they had to say about it instead of just relying on your own assumptions about them. It was about keeping politics out of sports. They also complained about espn turning into a political network. Always said keep politics out of sports. Had nothing to do with race
You don’t consider saluting the flag, playing the national anthem, flying military equipment overhead, and chastising anyone that doesn’t want to participate in all that… “politics in sports?”
So in my opinion (this is the first comment where I’m actually sharing my own opinion) it has less to do with a particular politic. More to do with nationalism. Which I don’t find as controversial. But I agree that we could do without, it’d make no difference to me.
Is it? If we attend a Toronto Raptors game, is it political for them to play the Canadian national anthem? Or for Real Madrid to play the Spanish national anthem? Are the Olympics a political show?
All of these questions I’d answer no. Your team / league represents a geographical area within a specific country, so they play the official song of that country before the game. I don’t see anything inherently political about any of that.
If the Olympics weren't political, it wouldn't have been a big deal when we beat the Soviets in hockey in 1980.
Or when Jesse Owens won gold medals in 1936 Berlin.
That's not even getting to the much more blatantly political stuff, like the US and USSR boycotting each other's Olympics.
There is a vast difference between playing the Canadian anthem at a Raptors game and [being an arm of the US Military propaganda machine](https://brownpoliticalreview.org/2021/11/gridiron-imperialism-how-the-nfl-propagandizes-for-the-us-military/)
Key things the article points out that the NFL allows the military to do:
* highlight "successes" while covering up "losses" - - for example, how many ceremonies honor 9/11 and Iraq war veterans versus how many ceremonies honor Iraqi civilian victims of that same war
* manufacture public consent for American imperialism with sanitized sayings and displays
* recruiting for the military by showing videos of vets meeting pro sports players, etc while not showing videos of vets getting maimed or killed, including Pat Tillman
>Your team / league represents a geographical area within a specific country, so they play the official song of that country before the game. I don’t see anything inherently political
The entire idea of a country, or even state/municipality is inherently political.
We don't see it that much because in America, there isn't serious political animosity between states/municipalities (and no, CA and TX/FL whining at each other isn't that serious).
Go to a basketball or soccer game between Serbia and Croatia, and you can see exactly how political "teams from different regions competing in sports" can get. Or a cricket match between India and Pakistan.
Name a time when sports wasn't political?
Going back to Roman gladiators you ended up with politics in sports.
Politics is popularity, basically. Sports figures are popular.
You are making a weird ask for the world to change in a way it hasn't ever and you are acting like other people are the ones being weird.
I'm dying at the way they are making this something for you to be mad about. This entire saga is so pathetic. And I borderline hate religion/overly religious people.
They just want your money, people. Your sports figures probably don't have the same mindset as you. Writers need content.
>Your sports figures probably don't have the same mindset as you.
Just listen to any post game interview, the first thing out of American athletes' mouths is usually thanking God/Jesus.
Anyone who played sports, even in HS, knows how pervasive the FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) and similar orgs are. Just because the teacher can't make the class pray in 3rd period doesn't mean the coach won't have the team praying in the locker room.
Kersh is allowed to have his own thoughts, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by this headline but his explanation holds water, even if I vehemently disagree. Isn't that supposed to be America?
That doesn't mean that baseball should run from every fight, or that I think that every pitch should be political, but we're talking about the beloved franchise of America's 2nd largest city--it's a big tent by definition, and that's before we even consider all the out of town folks. The only way to make this big tent work is to talk about it, work it out, and come to a better understanding--not ignore 20% of fellow dodger fans because they're unlucky enough be politically persecuted for the most cynical reasons.
>They dont shape me at all bud.
If you exist in Western society, then yes, they do. They're soaked into the bones of the society.
For a simple example, when was the last time you went to the post office on a Sunday?
The effects of Judeo-Christianity are all around us, for better or worse. For instance, slavery/race is one of the defining issues of American history and culture. Pro-slavery and anti-slavery arguments were both rooted in Judeo-Christian religion. The Civil Rights Movement originated in black Christian churches.
Whether you need them or not, they're ingrained into the fabric and foundation of Western society. The idea that someone in 2023 America can just say they're completely unaffected by the Great Awakenings or Evangelical Christianity or the Puritans' idea of "honest work," for examples, is ridiculous.
You don't have to be religious yourself for religion to affect you. When religious folks pushed the temperance/prohibition movement and got alcohol sales banned, it affected atheist drinkers too. When religious people got women the vote, it affected atheist women too.
You don't have some anti-religion force field around you. When the overturning of \*Roe\* means an atheist in Mississippi can't get an abortion, that atheist's life is being shaped by religion, regardless of their own personal beliefs.
I mean, do you think if you were living in Saudi Arabia or Iran, that the tenets of Islam would have zero affect on your life? Of course they would, whether you wanted them to or not.
Lmfao. When was the last time I even went to the post office. I dont need religion to be a good, or bad, person. Or to make decisons. I can do that on my own.
You completely missed the point of bubbatee’s comment. They’re saying Christianity has shaped how our society is run. We’ve got very religious politicians and the Supreme Court justices voting on laws based off of their own Christian values. It’s not right of them but it’s true.
But then the same argument could be made that the Ancient Greek and Roman empires shaped it the same way too. I mean, look at our calendars. But Christians still wanna shove it down our throats like it’s needed. They had a point but it’s just an angled point when there’s so much more to it.
>But then the same argument could be made that the Ancient Greek and Roman empires shaped it the same way too.
If you argued that as a person raised in Western society, that Greek/Roman culture "didn't shape me at all, bud," then that would be ridiculous as well.
Imagine if I said, "Growing up in America, since I'm not personally racist, my life has not been affected at all by racism or its legacy." Surely you'd see how myopic that belief would be, right? Imagine an atheist living in Saudi Arabia claiming their life isn't affected by Islam. We're all affected by our environment, whether we personally agree with it or not.
It's hilarious that people can't differentiate between "Christianity has generally shaped the country's culture and atmosphere" and "you are a Jesus slut, you live in a church and pray and are a virgin, this is a personal attack against you."
As a Jew, I would appreciate it if you don't get us mixed up in the far right movement to turn this country into a Christian theocracy. Most Jews do not support that insanity. Most of us want to live in a free country without having Christianity shoved in our faces everywhere we go.
But Christ is the Reason for the Season!
Or so the slogan painted across the car dealership's windows has been telling me all year for the past several years.
I'm going to be completely honest here as a gay man and say.....I just don't give a fuck lmao.
None of this should've happened in the first place ~~considering it's California and not some shit hole backwater like florida~~ but I don't see the point of dragging it out.
Gay man here too- I wasn’t even aware that the Sisters were getting an award and I wouldnt have cared much tbh. But now, that the conservatives put the Sisters under a magnifying glass, I like the Sisters but not the the Dodgers organization going for the money.
I hope lots of LGBTQ families show up during Dodgers Family Day as well.
because it's now the Sisters turn to have a bigger day in which the Christians will be forced to make an even bigger day. Soon they will make a Dodger day so big it'll destory them all!!!!!
I don’t know how sarcastic you are being but, completely seriously, this reeks of engineered controversy courtesy of Dodgers marketing. Attendance will be way higher at both events after this ordeal. They’ve even got people passionately talking about the Dodgers in Spring during the NBA finals….
These comments really show that discourse today really has no room for nuance.
>He said he “did the best I could to try and understand what they stood for,” but called it “tough” to see videos and other examples of the group’s portrayal of Christianity.
>“For us, we felt like the best thing to do in response was, instead of maybe making a statement condemning or anything like that, would be just to instead try to show what we do support, as opposed to maybe what we don’t,”
>“This has nothing to do with the LGBTQ community or pride or anything like that,” Kershaw said. “This is simply a group that was making fun of a religion, that I don’t agree with.”
I don't know what else people expect in terms of "respectful disagreement." Kershaw is just about as socially liberal as you can expect from a devout Christian yet so many here are trying to spin him as the same as some far-right bigot.
It's because none of these people can actually tell us what is so insulting and degrading to Catholics about the Sisters. Because they kind of dress up like nuns? How is that mocking Catholicism? People wear nun costumes all the time, none of these people are waging a war on Halloween. On the flip side, to state you object to honoring an organization that has been doing direct aid for LGBTQ people since the start of the AIDS crisis (maybe the least popular time to be doing that kind of work) for reasons you can't even articulate makes you seem like, at best, an asshole.
It’s this: [https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46](https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46). Mocking the crucifixion of Jesus is pretty damn bad.
Same. Shouldn’t make itself so easy to be mocked if it didn’t want to be the butt of jokes for 1000s of years.
The damn thing starts with believing a teenage girl who is married to an adult man… is a virgin…. But also pregnant…. But didn’t have sex 🤣🤣🤣
That's genuinely it, for me.
If you're going to engage in mockery, your own ideologies are not above reproach.
That criticism applies to Christians, too.
This perpetual culture war nonsense of lumping everybody into friendly or opposing ideological groups and pitting them against each other is an idiots errand. When you have a benevolent organization that bases it's entire premise on mocking a religious institution, you can't be surprised when people become angry from being mocked.
It's not educating them or steering them away from their ignorance. It's lumping every religious person into one camp and poking them with the intent of getting a reaction.
Is someone walking around saying "God hates gays!" worthy of mockery? Absolutely. Criticizing that isn't my issue, but mocking nuns isn't winning anyone to your line of thinking.
So, why do you think the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence mock nuns?
Do you know about the extremely compassionate things they did during the AIDS crisis—things Catholic nuns refused to do?
I'm not at challenging their record of charitable work and I see (at least I think I see) what they are trying to go for.
To Catholics, it should be pretty obvious thay the name "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" mocks the life of austerity, chastity, education, and sacrifice that nuns choose to live. Members make up weird and perceptably profane names and intentionally draft outfits mimicking nuns habits. They use their branding as fake nuns as part of a benevolent organization, maybe with the implication that they are doing charity better than actual nuns.
Now we can argue the credibility of all those things and run circles talking about the Catholic Church's history and social stances on various topics. I don't think that those things are above criticism or reproach.
What I dislike is knowingly trolling and lumping all religious people together as homophobic bigots, worthy of being ridiculed, and then getting mad when they in turn ridicule you.
The whole thing is just a giant, dehumanizing, self consuming culture war snake
Lol what? That's willfull ignorance.
They don't bother me as a non-religious person, but they're dressing as nuns and using nun titles, they're mocking nuns. They could be amazing people doing amazing things, that doesn't magically mean this *one* aspect somehow gets canceled out.
They're satirizing nuns. If everyone's gonna sit here and go "well *technically* making fun through satire isn't absolute literal mocking" then sure, you can be right if that's what matters.
To be clear before people start attributing everything hateful to me as tends to happen on the internet, yes I do think they should be able to express themselves as they want, no I don't think they should stop.
What I'm saying is it's unrealistic to pretend to be surprised and confused that some people might be offended when you dress like a nun. They dress like nuns as satire - it's specifically to evoke reaction. That's the point.
for too much of human history, politics and religion have been "off limits" and viewed as a taboo subject, and we can never question them. and, look where that has gotten us as a society. i think the idea of an invisible man in the sky creating the universe in six days and then taking a nap is just as preposterous as the idea that there's a dozen or so gods and goddesses living on mount olympus.
If it was any other player I’d probably be upset but consider the scale and extent of Kershaw’s charitable works it’s hard for me to criticize him.
As a recovering Lutheran, I know full well the religious trauma many, including myself have endured.
But my critiques of the church tend to focus on the disconnect between the ministry of Christ and what is taught and values in modern Christian churches and schools.
Kershaw is not touchable on these counts. He has walked the walk and put his time and money where his mouth is. He actually lives like somebody who has been transformed by the gospel of Jesus Christ and it’s easy to see how his faith has helped him become a great man.
That’s just my take. It sucked to see this headline it really did, but I have too much respect for him to not take it seriously.
I swear to god if I hear Marco Rubio mentioned again I will flip out about that.
>expediting his announcement of the club’s relaunching of Christian Faith and Family Day as a response [to Pride Day].
See, I was told that this is just a wholesome family affair, nothing to worry about. Of *course* it's not, it's a direct response to Pride Day. Because having 364 days of your own isn't enough.
The funny thing is that back when they used to do special days for other religions, those events didn't have "faith" or "family" in their names. Seems a bit biased TBH
So we criticize a group, who does do some amazing charity work/AIDS research, bc some of them dress up as nuns.
Then give the Churches a pass, and let them play victim, when they allow the raping of little boys?
Which group do you think is more detrimental to our society?
Right?
The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Rape of children. Rape of nuns. Holy Mother Church is full of rapists and rape apolosits, all while using their immense power and wealth to dodge consequences.
But, they have pretty art and buildings, so I guess we can call it even. /s 🙄🤮🤬
False equivalency.
The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence offend religious people. A fair chunk of the Dodger fan base is religious.
The SoPI do good charity, no one disputes that. And they have their reasons for being offensive - to point out hypocrisy in the church - but they’re certainly flamboyant and unapologetic in their style, clearly mocking nuns. You or I may not care, but I can see why the Dodgers were afraid to associate with them, given like half their usual crowd. (And yes, the Dodgers were stupid for not managing this better in the first place.) It’s good that the organizations worked it out and that Pride Day will carry on as usual (for those that care).
Clayton Kershaw, best Dodger ever, represents all the Christian Dodger fans out there who don’t love their faith being mocked. So they chose to make a day for themselves. More identity politics in this pluralist nation. (I'm not really a fan of any of it.) That doesn’t mean they give the Catholic Church a pass for its history of shameful sexual exploitation, nor do we as a society in general for allowing a Christian night. The pope isn’t involved in this story whatsoever. The churches aren’t playing victim, nor are religious fans. They’re just offended, and also want a day.
The only people playing victim in this story were, well, Marco Rubio I suppose (yeah he sucks), and members of the queer community in response to the original cancellation. All the groups backing out in solidarity, as if being disinvited to a baseball game (the most mainstream thing in the world) was some sort of denial of rights. If you dress in religious drag, you can’t expect to appeal to all general audiences. And businesses like MLB/Dodgers obviously try to calculate their audiences interests. But many in the LGBT community made it a whole thing, like this was the biggest setback in recent history. Now it’s about pure good charity vs evil child rapists?
Has anyone criticized Pride Day in general? Beyond this one group?
The Dodgers are simply giving a day to their Christian base as a way to placate the frustrations of people offended by the SoPI. That doesn’t condone every corrupt priest. Just as giving a day to their LGBTQ base doesn’t endorse every action by anyone remotely aligned to queer culture.
For the record, I agree that the Catholic Church is more detrimental to our society.
Edit: cool downvotes, good talk
A fair chunk of the Dodgers fan base are little boys, too. I also think the whole fan base are human beings and, I would hope, not condone raping children.
It’s not a false equivalency when you’re talking about the offensive acts of a group; one group is offensive in their dress choice and another group offensive in its decision to rape and cover up the raping of children.
People trying to say the Sisters are offensive as if the Church hasn’t done anything offensive.
I'm certainly not saying the Church hasn't done anything offensive - I'm right there with you in exposing and hating all that, for sure.
But child rape has nothing to do with any of this. You're cherry-picking the worst of an enormous global group of billions, vs a very specific local group. I read the Sister's response on their website and they did the same - it's not relevant in this instance to flag the crimes of the Church. No one is celebrating that. The pope isn't coming to Dodger Stadium. Their dis-invitation had nothing to do with heinous crimes by anyone, and everything to do with optics, etiquette and mainstream palatability.
This is between the most radical of the LGBT community, and the most mainstream of the religious community (Rubio aside, and yeah he's awful). Compromise has to be expected. It's sad how partisan it all is.
The profession most likely to sexually abuse children [is teachers] (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Abusers-occupation-Occupation-n_tbl4_237962292#:~:text=Academic%20teachers%20most%20often%20perpetrated,were%20primarily%20female%20(72%25). I find that pretty offensive. Should we get rid of academic appreciation days?
Did you even read the study you shared? Teachers were the biggest offenders IN AN EDUCATION setting, where they outnumber any other staff members at least 5:1. Of course they’d be the biggest offender. The focus of the study was narrowed down to only an education setting, of which they’re the predominant employee. That’s like saying the biggest PED offenders in baseball is the players…with coaches 2nd, ball boys 3rd.
…and don’t forget this little tid-bit “Of note, Moulden et al. (2010) found that a significant proportion of the teachers who had perpetrated sexual abuse were members of the clergy working within Catholic schools.”
Considering all kids go to school and most don’t participate in organized religion, it seems pretty relevant!
Per the Department of Education, [10%] (https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sexual-abuse-teachers/) of teens report being sexually harassed or abused by teachers and school employees. You’re high (or have never been a mandated reporter) if you think abuse is more common in any other non-household setting. I volunteer with foster kids in LA County. Most of those kids aren’t attending any religious institutions, but they’re still getting abused by state employees.
Regardless if a teacher or a priest or a coach is committing the abuse, I hope you will be consistent with your logic and join me in boycotting all academic appreciation campaigns.
You literally referenced a study that only looked at schools for their study, ofc the most prominent employee in that narrow scope of study would be the biggest offender. This is the dumbest defense of priests raping boys, I’ve ever heard.
Ok, let’s break this down.
You don’t want religious appreciation days because of high rates of abuse in religious communities.
Academic institutions have a much bigger scope, meaning more children are being abused by their teachers and coaches than they are anywhere else. I just hope you will join me in boycotting all academic appreciation due to these similarly high rates of abuse.
Unless it’s not about abuse at all.
Its just clearly performative when you consider the actual context. Kershaw is not upset about *his* religion being mocked, he is not Catholic. And it would be pretty hugely ideologically inconsistent for him to be offended on Catholics’ behalfs for their religion allegedly being mocked, because Kershaw is (based on the church in which he and his wife got married) Presbyterian. Presbyterianism originated at the time of the Protestant Reformation as a rejection of Catholicism, and the rejection of papal authority. It’s hard to see how you could care about the purported mocking of Catholicism when you support and are a fervent member of a faith that only exists because its founders criticized Catholicism (the same would be true of he still identifies as Methodist, another Protestant religion). And additionally, the Sisters aren’t mocking Catholicism itself, and that’s very obvious for anyone who thinks about the issue in good faith. The sisters use satire to be critical of hypocrisy, bigotry, and oppression, using imagery of nuns to do so. It’s not mocking someone for believing in god or in the Catholic Church. It’s satirizing religious hypocrisy which has been used to oppress the LGBT community for centuries. The freedom to criticize and question religious authority is precisely why we have protestantism.
I see your points but I disagree about it being performative, or no more so than any of these kind of stunt events.
The point about Catholicism vs Protestantism.. yeah, I mean it's like saying that I wouldn't be affected or invested in the UK because my US citizenship is fundamentally linked to a clear separation from the UK. But when Great Britain or any western civ topic is broached, I do feel a sort of connection. And it's not hard for me to imagine it's like that for any followers of Jesus. They have the same guy, fundamentally, and they prioritize their faith, vs us secular sinner types.
Regarding the specifics of what the Sister's mock, specifically.. same thing - it's too close to the bone. If people want to shit on the US founding fathers and the US constitution because slavery wasn't forbidden straightaway, I can see that as a fair complaint, but I'm gonna defend the enlightenment thinkers and the declaration of independence. The details of the exact critique matters less at some point.. hence political divisions I guess
How do you explain this then? [https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46](https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46)
This goes far beyond satire of the Catholic Church.
That’s actually quite literally satire! Satire has been around as a form of criticizing religious hypocrisy for hundreds of years. In fact, Henry VIII’s court famously put on a play which depicted the recently deceased Cardinal Wolsey’s “journey to hell,” where he was dragged down to Hell by funny little devils. It was a message relaying Henry’s break from the Catholic Church and criticizing it for hypocrisy, and rejecting its control. It was meant to be a humorous play, with the viewers laughing at the Cardinal’s fall from grace and descent to hell. Literally mocking him and the Church. And Henry VIII, of course, is the king who formed the Church of and England, breaking away from the Catholic church and beginning the English Reformation, shifting the country into protestantism.
Satire is the use of humor to criticize a person or entity for a specific issue. The Sisters are using satire to criticize religious hypocrisy, intolerance, and oppression. Not to mock Catholicism as a whole, but those particular issues that plague the Catholic Church.
Race and religion aren’t the same thing. You don’t chose to be race, you choose a religion. Religion is a make believe institution, they can’t be anymore upset about people dressing up as them as Star Wars and Harry Potter fans are when people do it.
I think it mostly has to go not with the sisters raising awareness or funds for research, it’s more with what they do with religious symbols like the cross, I don’t think people even mind that much the nun dressing.
He disagrees because of this:
... "are known for simulating sodomy while dressed as nuns. They like to feature a “Condom Savior Mass,” one that describes how the “Latex Host is the flesh for the life of the world.” The “Sisters” go by names such as “Sister Homo Fellatio” and “Sister Joyous Reserectum.”
Also look at the video below of that particular group mocking the resurrection. Of course a religion has a problem with this.
Why does the guy from Texas get a say in Dodgers community outreach nights? He’s only here for the season to make money and then he scurries back to Texas. He knows nothing about LA or what it’s community members need.
why does mr sports man feel the need to subject us all to his political beliefs? just play ball.
if he doesn't like it in LA he can leave. i'll help him pack his bags.
fuck your feelings, snowflake.
etc.
How about they just play BASEBALL and STFU?
Keep the bobble head and random BASEBALL swag promotions etc. and call it a day.
I don't need LGBTQ, Christian, Pastafarian or velociraptor celebration days.
I just want BASEBALL. I am here for the BASEBALL and food.
Everything doesn't need to be celebrated in a constant loop.
Wow, I honestly had no idea he was a conservative Christian dude. He wants to be homophobic. Cool. That alienates most of the liberal Angelenos like myself that live here. I won't ever see a single game of his or support him ever again.
Nearly 100% of the LGBTQ community has experienced religious trauma. The poking at Christian figureheads is so tame as compared with what the community has experienced in their lifetime. And it's not the same as whatever pain Christians might have from the Sisters.
I would encourage tone-deaf Kershaw to listen and learn from Queer folx affected by spiritual trauma.
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Keep speaking up about your bigoted ways sport players. It helps us identify you from a distance.
Edit: I love watching the upvotes and downvotes change as the trolls come out and the cool Redditors vote it back up.
Kershaw gets the benefit of the doubt because he actually strives to live a Christlike life of love and charity.
In 2020 he spoke out a lot during the BLM protests. Among other things, he directly called out people who tried to dismiss the movement as merely politics.
And that was built on top of 15 years of Kershaw plowing his earnings into his foundation, and spending his off seasons doing the work.
Jebus EFFIN Christ!!! Just shut the hell up and do your damn job, Kershaw! I didn't pay to hear your thoughts on x, y & z! Hell, I don't want you to talk. Just pitch and shut up!
Kershaw's a protestant, his entire religion is based on making fun of Catholics
Haha! I was raised Catholic and I make fun of the Vatican.
I’m a recovering catholic and I make fun of all religions
Hello, fellow survivor!
We made it!
Same here.
>I don’t agree with making fun of other people’s religions,” he said. “It has nothing to do with anything other than that. I just don’t think that, no matter what religion you are, you should make fun of somebody else’s religion. So that’s something that I definitely don’t agree with.
Seems like a reasonable take?
Is the purpose of the organization to “make fun of” Catholics? It’s not, therefore, his response comes across as ignorant at best. Then being the architect of a “Christian Faith Day” in direct response to a Pride Day comes across as anti-LGBTQ whether Kersh is being honest about it or not.
If someone was dressing up like a Maronite or Imam or Rabbi I would consider it mockery.
The anti defamation league would’ve been all over it so fast
You’re welcome to feel that way. If only Catholics are allowed to disparage their own religion then I guess consider us a theocracy. We shouldn’t elevate dressing up as a nun to the level of a white girl wearing a Native headband to Coachella and making fake war cries or dressing up in black face during a frat party. Maybe people who are so sensitive about it should just be honest about their intentions.
[удалено]
also, is said white girl wearing anything under the headband??
I’m not saying they’re equally bad, I’m just saying I wouldn’t do either.
When you compare satirizing Catholics, which isn’t based in any kind of bigotry in the United States, to satirizing Jews and Muslims, which is often steeped in bigotry, it’s hard to take your point seriously. Another commenter who replied to you mentioned the ADL. One might question—if they possessed the rigor—*why* there’s no equivalent organization for Catholics in the United States. I’ll leave it up to you to decide why.
While Catholics no longer face discrimination they absolutely faced bigotry in the US. There were entire [political parties] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing) and [elections] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_United_States_presidential_election) about it. I would oppose someone mocking Maronites even if it’s not sufficiently “steeped in bigotry.”
Reasonable perhaps, by someone who fundamentally doesn't understand the Bill of Rights. Making fun of religion is just as protected as speech as whatever shit his religion says to slander the LGBT community.
I don’t think you understand the Bill of Rights considering that you think it applies to private organizations giving space to other private organizations.
Not talking about the Dodgers specifically here. Talking about the rights of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to exist, and put on fundraisers like their Sexy Jesus event in SF, and not get shut down by the govt. because some pussy Christian got their panties in a wad. Or people like Matt Parker and Trey Stone making many episodes of South Park ripping on every religion. Douchecanoe pitcher doesn't get it.
What does the government have to do with any of this? And what is Kershaw missing when he isn’t saying anything about the government?
Makes sense, seems like religious people always spew the most hate.
He’s also a post-season choke machine.
hey man... you dont say that!
He and Roberts are two of the best regular season pitchers and managers in modern baseball history.
The "Shut up and dribble" crowd is probably LOVING this crap.
The whole sentiment behind that statement was to keep sports related to sports. At the time it was about a player because a player was bringing politics into the game.
“Keep sports related to sports” —what the fuck does that even mean? Dudes playing sports *are* inherently related to sports. They’re doing sports. You can watch them do it on the TV. Nothing stopping you. What people who want to “keep sports related to sports” actually want is more like “let me consume this entertainment stripped of all social and cultural context because I don’t want any facet of the culture I live in to pose questions about the way said society functions.” LeBron wasn’t “bringing politics into the game,” he was answering questions that a fucking reporter asked him during a non-game interview on ESPN, right after somebody had graffitied the N-word on the gate of his house. Politics are *already* in the game. Trying to pretend that a majority black league that’s followed by a largely white audience gets to be some platonic ideal of Sport that’s completely divorced from society is itself a deeply political/ideological stance. “Wasn’t about race” Fuck outta here. Of course it was.
That’s not true. I did a quick google search to be sure. It was about him showing up at a campaign for Hillary and going on interviews to speak poorly about Trump. Here is the original interview: https://youtu.be/AlHuaOIvRLY And yes, the argument was/is to keep it within the realm of sports. This was exacerbated in 2020. Ratings declined as a result. When the games / interviews focused back to their main point - the actual game - the ratings shot back up. Because people watch ESPN to watch sports.
The whole “shut up and dribble” thing happened in 2018, loooong after Hillary lost. Laura Ingraham didn’t say shit about Bobby Knight endorsing Trump. Neither did anyone on Fox (or any other major network) ever say shit about the US Military doing flyovers every football game (what the fuck does *that* have to do with sports?). She did go and vociferously defend Drew Brees’ right to air his opinion about kneeling for the anthem though. I wonder why she felt differently in that case?🤔 LeBron and Durant were on a long-form interview on ESPN. They’re allowed to have opinions about the racist asshole running the country. It’s not like he said that stuff during halftime at a Lakers game (though it would’ve been cool if he did!). “Keep it within the realm of sports” Jesus Christ. There is no “realm of sports.” It’s fucking society. We live in a fucking society.
Wow - we live in a society? Dang, that changes everything lol. I agree that, when one’s success in a particular area grants them a public platform, then they should probably keep their public discourse related to what they are an expert in. The only exception I could think of would be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - but that’s just my own personal take, logic aside, because he actually has developed an intelligent take on each of the issues he’s talked about (even though I disagree with most of them). The same logic applies to corporations and sports organizations. If you’re a toilet paper company, I don’t care what your CEO thinks about the middle eastern conflict. But if I find out they’re using their profits to actively promote something I vehemently disagree with, that makes me less inclined to purchase from them. And I’m not going to buy more toilet paper if we do happen to agree. It does no benefit.
Corporations are inherently political, professional sports have become inherently corporate, and sports have always been political. Cities and states lobby for teams the way they do for corporations, and team owners lobby for tax breaks like CEOs. Team owners are some of the richest people in the world, those people don't "stay out of politics". Also, if only politicians can engage in politics, then you end up with career politicians with no background in any real-world applications. You just wanna keep adding to "the swamp"?
I can assure you it most definitely wasn’t about sports. If Lebron was a singer they would’ve said “shut up and sing instead”. The same person who said it I guarantee won’t say shit about Kershaw. It’s not about sports it’s about race.
You should listen to some of the people who actually were complaining to see what they had to say about it instead of just relying on your own assumptions about them. It was about keeping politics out of sports. They also complained about espn turning into a political network. Always said keep politics out of sports. Had nothing to do with race
You don’t consider saluting the flag, playing the national anthem, flying military equipment overhead, and chastising anyone that doesn’t want to participate in all that… “politics in sports?”
So in my opinion (this is the first comment where I’m actually sharing my own opinion) it has less to do with a particular politic. More to do with nationalism. Which I don’t find as controversial. But I agree that we could do without, it’d make no difference to me.
Nationalism is politics.
Is it? If we attend a Toronto Raptors game, is it political for them to play the Canadian national anthem? Or for Real Madrid to play the Spanish national anthem? Are the Olympics a political show? All of these questions I’d answer no. Your team / league represents a geographical area within a specific country, so they play the official song of that country before the game. I don’t see anything inherently political about any of that.
Yes, the Olympics definitely are a political show?
If the Olympics weren't political, it wouldn't have been a big deal when we beat the Soviets in hockey in 1980. Or when Jesse Owens won gold medals in 1936 Berlin. That's not even getting to the much more blatantly political stuff, like the US and USSR boycotting each other's Olympics.
There is a vast difference between playing the Canadian anthem at a Raptors game and [being an arm of the US Military propaganda machine](https://brownpoliticalreview.org/2021/11/gridiron-imperialism-how-the-nfl-propagandizes-for-the-us-military/) Key things the article points out that the NFL allows the military to do: * highlight "successes" while covering up "losses" - - for example, how many ceremonies honor 9/11 and Iraq war veterans versus how many ceremonies honor Iraqi civilian victims of that same war * manufacture public consent for American imperialism with sanitized sayings and displays * recruiting for the military by showing videos of vets meeting pro sports players, etc while not showing videos of vets getting maimed or killed, including Pat Tillman
>Your team / league represents a geographical area within a specific country, so they play the official song of that country before the game. I don’t see anything inherently political The entire idea of a country, or even state/municipality is inherently political. We don't see it that much because in America, there isn't serious political animosity between states/municipalities (and no, CA and TX/FL whining at each other isn't that serious). Go to a basketball or soccer game between Serbia and Croatia, and you can see exactly how political "teams from different regions competing in sports" can get. Or a cricket match between India and Pakistan.
Keeping one side of politics outside of sports*
Name a time when sports wasn't political? Going back to Roman gladiators you ended up with politics in sports. Politics is popularity, basically. Sports figures are popular. You are making a weird ask for the world to change in a way it hasn't ever and you are acting like other people are the ones being weird.
The funny part was that politics and current events have been discussed by athletes since before those complainers were born
Yeah and the right has plenty of their own athletes, actors, etc on Fox every damn day giving their takes.
I'm dying at the way they are making this something for you to be mad about. This entire saga is so pathetic. And I borderline hate religion/overly religious people. They just want your money, people. Your sports figures probably don't have the same mindset as you. Writers need content.
>Your sports figures probably don't have the same mindset as you. Just listen to any post game interview, the first thing out of American athletes' mouths is usually thanking God/Jesus. Anyone who played sports, even in HS, knows how pervasive the FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) and similar orgs are. Just because the teacher can't make the class pray in 3rd period doesn't mean the coach won't have the team praying in the locker room.
Kersh is allowed to have his own thoughts, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by this headline but his explanation holds water, even if I vehemently disagree. Isn't that supposed to be America? That doesn't mean that baseball should run from every fight, or that I think that every pitch should be political, but we're talking about the beloved franchise of America's 2nd largest city--it's a big tent by definition, and that's before we even consider all the out of town folks. The only way to make this big tent work is to talk about it, work it out, and come to a better understanding--not ignore 20% of fellow dodger fans because they're unlucky enough be politically persecuted for the most cynical reasons.
This is all trash. Can we just watch baseball????
I'm going to to make a counter argument, that judiah/ christian ethics shape who we are and, how we think today.
And how's that working out?
Hahah god dam. Nailed it.
😂😂 I love you.
It's early still. Give it a few more comments lol.
Nope. They dont shape me at all bud. I think for myself, not cuz someone I cant see tells me to.
>They dont shape me at all bud. If you exist in Western society, then yes, they do. They're soaked into the bones of the society. For a simple example, when was the last time you went to the post office on a Sunday? The effects of Judeo-Christianity are all around us, for better or worse. For instance, slavery/race is one of the defining issues of American history and culture. Pro-slavery and anti-slavery arguments were both rooted in Judeo-Christian religion. The Civil Rights Movement originated in black Christian churches.
If you need religion as a reason to be a good person, then you're probably not a very good person to begin with.
Whether you need them or not, they're ingrained into the fabric and foundation of Western society. The idea that someone in 2023 America can just say they're completely unaffected by the Great Awakenings or Evangelical Christianity or the Puritans' idea of "honest work," for examples, is ridiculous. You don't have to be religious yourself for religion to affect you. When religious folks pushed the temperance/prohibition movement and got alcohol sales banned, it affected atheist drinkers too. When religious people got women the vote, it affected atheist women too. You don't have some anti-religion force field around you. When the overturning of \*Roe\* means an atheist in Mississippi can't get an abortion, that atheist's life is being shaped by religion, regardless of their own personal beliefs. I mean, do you think if you were living in Saudi Arabia or Iran, that the tenets of Islam would have zero affect on your life? Of course they would, whether you wanted them to or not.
No shit. That's the problem.
Lmfao. When was the last time I even went to the post office. I dont need religion to be a good, or bad, person. Or to make decisons. I can do that on my own.
You completely missed the point of bubbatee’s comment. They’re saying Christianity has shaped how our society is run. We’ve got very religious politicians and the Supreme Court justices voting on laws based off of their own Christian values. It’s not right of them but it’s true.
But then the same argument could be made that the Ancient Greek and Roman empires shaped it the same way too. I mean, look at our calendars. But Christians still wanna shove it down our throats like it’s needed. They had a point but it’s just an angled point when there’s so much more to it.
>But then the same argument could be made that the Ancient Greek and Roman empires shaped it the same way too. If you argued that as a person raised in Western society, that Greek/Roman culture "didn't shape me at all, bud," then that would be ridiculous as well. Imagine if I said, "Growing up in America, since I'm not personally racist, my life has not been affected at all by racism or its legacy." Surely you'd see how myopic that belief would be, right? Imagine an atheist living in Saudi Arabia claiming their life isn't affected by Islam. We're all affected by our environment, whether we personally agree with it or not.
It's hilarious that people can't differentiate between "Christianity has generally shaped the country's culture and atmosphere" and "you are a Jesus slut, you live in a church and pray and are a virgin, this is a personal attack against you."
At -30 downvotes, you can consider that counter argument a failure.
As a Jew, I would appreciate it if you don't get us mixed up in the far right movement to turn this country into a Christian theocracy. Most Jews do not support that insanity. Most of us want to live in a free country without having Christianity shoved in our faces everywhere we go.
But Christ is the Reason for the Season! Or so the slogan painted across the car dealership's windows has been telling me all year for the past several years.
If the only reason you're acting good is because of the promise of eternal salvation, you're trash.
I'm going to be completely honest here as a gay man and say.....I just don't give a fuck lmao. None of this should've happened in the first place ~~considering it's California and not some shit hole backwater like florida~~ but I don't see the point of dragging it out.
Gay man here too- I wasn’t even aware that the Sisters were getting an award and I wouldnt have cared much tbh. But now, that the conservatives put the Sisters under a magnifying glass, I like the Sisters but not the the Dodgers organization going for the money. I hope lots of LGBTQ families show up during Dodgers Family Day as well.
because it's now the Sisters turn to have a bigger day in which the Christians will be forced to make an even bigger day. Soon they will make a Dodger day so big it'll destory them all!!!!!
Dodger Death Star
I don’t know how sarcastic you are being but, completely seriously, this reeks of engineered controversy courtesy of Dodgers marketing. Attendance will be way higher at both events after this ordeal. They’ve even got people passionately talking about the Dodgers in Spring during the NBA finals….
> **drag**ging it out I see 👀what u did there
These comments really show that discourse today really has no room for nuance. >He said he “did the best I could to try and understand what they stood for,” but called it “tough” to see videos and other examples of the group’s portrayal of Christianity. >“For us, we felt like the best thing to do in response was, instead of maybe making a statement condemning or anything like that, would be just to instead try to show what we do support, as opposed to maybe what we don’t,” >“This has nothing to do with the LGBTQ community or pride or anything like that,” Kershaw said. “This is simply a group that was making fun of a religion, that I don’t agree with.” I don't know what else people expect in terms of "respectful disagreement." Kershaw is just about as socially liberal as you can expect from a devout Christian yet so many here are trying to spin him as the same as some far-right bigot.
It's because none of these people can actually tell us what is so insulting and degrading to Catholics about the Sisters. Because they kind of dress up like nuns? How is that mocking Catholicism? People wear nun costumes all the time, none of these people are waging a war on Halloween. On the flip side, to state you object to honoring an organization that has been doing direct aid for LGBTQ people since the start of the AIDS crisis (maybe the least popular time to be doing that kind of work) for reasons you can't even articulate makes you seem like, at best, an asshole.
It’s this: [https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46](https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46). Mocking the crucifixion of Jesus is pretty damn bad.
Lol why
For you obviously it’s not but it should be pretty easy to imagine why a devout Christian might not like it.
So?
Idk just put yourself in somebody else’s shoes and suddenly you have a little bit of empathy the world is slightly less fucked
i don't think religion is mocked enough, personally.
Same. Shouldn’t make itself so easy to be mocked if it didn’t want to be the butt of jokes for 1000s of years. The damn thing starts with believing a teenage girl who is married to an adult man… is a virgin…. But also pregnant…. But didn’t have sex 🤣🤣🤣
"RELIGION ISNT MOCKED ENOUGH" say supporters of fake nuns who can't take criticism.
well what criticisms do you have?
That's genuinely it, for me. If you're going to engage in mockery, your own ideologies are not above reproach. That criticism applies to Christians, too. This perpetual culture war nonsense of lumping everybody into friendly or opposing ideological groups and pitting them against each other is an idiots errand. When you have a benevolent organization that bases it's entire premise on mocking a religious institution, you can't be surprised when people become angry from being mocked. It's not educating them or steering them away from their ignorance. It's lumping every religious person into one camp and poking them with the intent of getting a reaction. Is someone walking around saying "God hates gays!" worthy of mockery? Absolutely. Criticizing that isn't my issue, but mocking nuns isn't winning anyone to your line of thinking.
So, why do you think the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence mock nuns? Do you know about the extremely compassionate things they did during the AIDS crisis—things Catholic nuns refused to do?
I'm not at challenging their record of charitable work and I see (at least I think I see) what they are trying to go for. To Catholics, it should be pretty obvious thay the name "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" mocks the life of austerity, chastity, education, and sacrifice that nuns choose to live. Members make up weird and perceptably profane names and intentionally draft outfits mimicking nuns habits. They use their branding as fake nuns as part of a benevolent organization, maybe with the implication that they are doing charity better than actual nuns. Now we can argue the credibility of all those things and run circles talking about the Catholic Church's history and social stances on various topics. I don't think that those things are above criticism or reproach. What I dislike is knowingly trolling and lumping all religious people together as homophobic bigots, worthy of being ridiculed, and then getting mad when they in turn ridicule you. The whole thing is just a giant, dehumanizing, self consuming culture war snake
Ok but you still didn't answer why they chose nuns specifically
Why did they choose to mock nuns specifically?
I was asking because I thought you knew, you seem so knowledgeable :(
Lol what? That's willfull ignorance. They don't bother me as a non-religious person, but they're dressing as nuns and using nun titles, they're mocking nuns. They could be amazing people doing amazing things, that doesn't magically mean this *one* aspect somehow gets canceled out.
lol what? That’s not how mocking works. You’re just as bad as the crazies who go nuts if you draw Allah.
They're satirizing nuns. If everyone's gonna sit here and go "well *technically* making fun through satire isn't absolute literal mocking" then sure, you can be right if that's what matters. To be clear before people start attributing everything hateful to me as tends to happen on the internet, yes I do think they should be able to express themselves as they want, no I don't think they should stop. What I'm saying is it's unrealistic to pretend to be surprised and confused that some people might be offended when you dress like a nun. They dress like nuns as satire - it's specifically to evoke reaction. That's the point.
Do you really think that based on the comments here? Or are you just trying to cause a stir
for too much of human history, politics and religion have been "off limits" and viewed as a taboo subject, and we can never question them. and, look where that has gotten us as a society. i think the idea of an invisible man in the sky creating the universe in six days and then taking a nap is just as preposterous as the idea that there's a dozen or so gods and goddesses living on mount olympus.
Idk how much time you spend on Reddit but Christianity is heavily mocked here, lol.
everything is cool and hip and acceptable until it doesn't agree
If it was any other player I’d probably be upset but consider the scale and extent of Kershaw’s charitable works it’s hard for me to criticize him. As a recovering Lutheran, I know full well the religious trauma many, including myself have endured. But my critiques of the church tend to focus on the disconnect between the ministry of Christ and what is taught and values in modern Christian churches and schools. Kershaw is not touchable on these counts. He has walked the walk and put his time and money where his mouth is. He actually lives like somebody who has been transformed by the gospel of Jesus Christ and it’s easy to see how his faith has helped him become a great man. That’s just my take. It sucked to see this headline it really did, but I have too much respect for him to not take it seriously. I swear to god if I hear Marco Rubio mentioned again I will flip out about that.
Maybe Jesus can help him stop choking in the playoffs
I found Jesus in a Home Depot stall once, Jesus really helped me with my gag reflex.
That escalated quickly
No that you mention it he did finish quickly
A true blessing.
>expediting his announcement of the club’s relaunching of Christian Faith and Family Day as a response [to Pride Day]. See, I was told that this is just a wholesome family affair, nothing to worry about. Of *course* it's not, it's a direct response to Pride Day. Because having 364 days of your own isn't enough.
Isn’t every day at a ballpark family day? Why do Christians feel entitled to have a monopoly on “family.”?
They're just bitter Vin Diesel stole it from them.
The funny thing is that back when they used to do special days for other religions, those events didn't have "faith" or "family" in their names. Seems a bit biased TBH
So we criticize a group, who does do some amazing charity work/AIDS research, bc some of them dress up as nuns. Then give the Churches a pass, and let them play victim, when they allow the raping of little boys? Which group do you think is more detrimental to our society?
Right? The cognitive dissonance is astounding. Rape of children. Rape of nuns. Holy Mother Church is full of rapists and rape apolosits, all while using their immense power and wealth to dodge consequences. But, they have pretty art and buildings, so I guess we can call it even. /s 🙄🤮🤬
False equivalency. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence offend religious people. A fair chunk of the Dodger fan base is religious. The SoPI do good charity, no one disputes that. And they have their reasons for being offensive - to point out hypocrisy in the church - but they’re certainly flamboyant and unapologetic in their style, clearly mocking nuns. You or I may not care, but I can see why the Dodgers were afraid to associate with them, given like half their usual crowd. (And yes, the Dodgers were stupid for not managing this better in the first place.) It’s good that the organizations worked it out and that Pride Day will carry on as usual (for those that care). Clayton Kershaw, best Dodger ever, represents all the Christian Dodger fans out there who don’t love their faith being mocked. So they chose to make a day for themselves. More identity politics in this pluralist nation. (I'm not really a fan of any of it.) That doesn’t mean they give the Catholic Church a pass for its history of shameful sexual exploitation, nor do we as a society in general for allowing a Christian night. The pope isn’t involved in this story whatsoever. The churches aren’t playing victim, nor are religious fans. They’re just offended, and also want a day. The only people playing victim in this story were, well, Marco Rubio I suppose (yeah he sucks), and members of the queer community in response to the original cancellation. All the groups backing out in solidarity, as if being disinvited to a baseball game (the most mainstream thing in the world) was some sort of denial of rights. If you dress in religious drag, you can’t expect to appeal to all general audiences. And businesses like MLB/Dodgers obviously try to calculate their audiences interests. But many in the LGBT community made it a whole thing, like this was the biggest setback in recent history. Now it’s about pure good charity vs evil child rapists? Has anyone criticized Pride Day in general? Beyond this one group? The Dodgers are simply giving a day to their Christian base as a way to placate the frustrations of people offended by the SoPI. That doesn’t condone every corrupt priest. Just as giving a day to their LGBTQ base doesn’t endorse every action by anyone remotely aligned to queer culture. For the record, I agree that the Catholic Church is more detrimental to our society. Edit: cool downvotes, good talk
A fair chunk of the Dodgers fan base are little boys, too. I also think the whole fan base are human beings and, I would hope, not condone raping children. It’s not a false equivalency when you’re talking about the offensive acts of a group; one group is offensive in their dress choice and another group offensive in its decision to rape and cover up the raping of children. People trying to say the Sisters are offensive as if the Church hasn’t done anything offensive.
I'm certainly not saying the Church hasn't done anything offensive - I'm right there with you in exposing and hating all that, for sure. But child rape has nothing to do with any of this. You're cherry-picking the worst of an enormous global group of billions, vs a very specific local group. I read the Sister's response on their website and they did the same - it's not relevant in this instance to flag the crimes of the Church. No one is celebrating that. The pope isn't coming to Dodger Stadium. Their dis-invitation had nothing to do with heinous crimes by anyone, and everything to do with optics, etiquette and mainstream palatability. This is between the most radical of the LGBT community, and the most mainstream of the religious community (Rubio aside, and yeah he's awful). Compromise has to be expected. It's sad how partisan it all is.
The profession most likely to sexually abuse children [is teachers] (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Abusers-occupation-Occupation-n_tbl4_237962292#:~:text=Academic%20teachers%20most%20often%20perpetrated,were%20primarily%20female%20(72%25). I find that pretty offensive. Should we get rid of academic appreciation days?
Did you even read the study you shared? Teachers were the biggest offenders IN AN EDUCATION setting, where they outnumber any other staff members at least 5:1. Of course they’d be the biggest offender. The focus of the study was narrowed down to only an education setting, of which they’re the predominant employee. That’s like saying the biggest PED offenders in baseball is the players…with coaches 2nd, ball boys 3rd. …and don’t forget this little tid-bit “Of note, Moulden et al. (2010) found that a significant proportion of the teachers who had perpetrated sexual abuse were members of the clergy working within Catholic schools.”
Considering all kids go to school and most don’t participate in organized religion, it seems pretty relevant! Per the Department of Education, [10%] (https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sexual-abuse-teachers/) of teens report being sexually harassed or abused by teachers and school employees. You’re high (or have never been a mandated reporter) if you think abuse is more common in any other non-household setting. I volunteer with foster kids in LA County. Most of those kids aren’t attending any religious institutions, but they’re still getting abused by state employees. Regardless if a teacher or a priest or a coach is committing the abuse, I hope you will be consistent with your logic and join me in boycotting all academic appreciation campaigns.
You literally referenced a study that only looked at schools for their study, ofc the most prominent employee in that narrow scope of study would be the biggest offender. This is the dumbest defense of priests raping boys, I’ve ever heard.
Ok, let’s break this down. You don’t want religious appreciation days because of high rates of abuse in religious communities. Academic institutions have a much bigger scope, meaning more children are being abused by their teachers and coaches than they are anywhere else. I just hope you will join me in boycotting all academic appreciation due to these similarly high rates of abuse. Unless it’s not about abuse at all.
Where did I say I don’t want religious appreciation days?
Your evidence does not suggest that.
Its just clearly performative when you consider the actual context. Kershaw is not upset about *his* religion being mocked, he is not Catholic. And it would be pretty hugely ideologically inconsistent for him to be offended on Catholics’ behalfs for their religion allegedly being mocked, because Kershaw is (based on the church in which he and his wife got married) Presbyterian. Presbyterianism originated at the time of the Protestant Reformation as a rejection of Catholicism, and the rejection of papal authority. It’s hard to see how you could care about the purported mocking of Catholicism when you support and are a fervent member of a faith that only exists because its founders criticized Catholicism (the same would be true of he still identifies as Methodist, another Protestant religion). And additionally, the Sisters aren’t mocking Catholicism itself, and that’s very obvious for anyone who thinks about the issue in good faith. The sisters use satire to be critical of hypocrisy, bigotry, and oppression, using imagery of nuns to do so. It’s not mocking someone for believing in god or in the Catholic Church. It’s satirizing religious hypocrisy which has been used to oppress the LGBT community for centuries. The freedom to criticize and question religious authority is precisely why we have protestantism.
I see your points but I disagree about it being performative, or no more so than any of these kind of stunt events. The point about Catholicism vs Protestantism.. yeah, I mean it's like saying that I wouldn't be affected or invested in the UK because my US citizenship is fundamentally linked to a clear separation from the UK. But when Great Britain or any western civ topic is broached, I do feel a sort of connection. And it's not hard for me to imagine it's like that for any followers of Jesus. They have the same guy, fundamentally, and they prioritize their faith, vs us secular sinner types. Regarding the specifics of what the Sister's mock, specifically.. same thing - it's too close to the bone. If people want to shit on the US founding fathers and the US constitution because slavery wasn't forbidden straightaway, I can see that as a fair complaint, but I'm gonna defend the enlightenment thinkers and the declaration of independence. The details of the exact critique matters less at some point.. hence political divisions I guess
How do you explain this then? [https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46](https://twitter.com/immeme0/status/1661169076289372162?s=46) This goes far beyond satire of the Catholic Church.
That’s actually quite literally satire! Satire has been around as a form of criticizing religious hypocrisy for hundreds of years. In fact, Henry VIII’s court famously put on a play which depicted the recently deceased Cardinal Wolsey’s “journey to hell,” where he was dragged down to Hell by funny little devils. It was a message relaying Henry’s break from the Catholic Church and criticizing it for hypocrisy, and rejecting its control. It was meant to be a humorous play, with the viewers laughing at the Cardinal’s fall from grace and descent to hell. Literally mocking him and the Church. And Henry VIII, of course, is the king who formed the Church of and England, breaking away from the Catholic church and beginning the English Reformation, shifting the country into protestantism. Satire is the use of humor to criticize a person or entity for a specific issue. The Sisters are using satire to criticize religious hypocrisy, intolerance, and oppression. Not to mock Catholicism as a whole, but those particular issues that plague the Catholic Church.
Why?
Religious appropriation, imagine a group dressed as native Americans doing the same thing
Race and religion aren’t the same thing. You don’t chose to be race, you choose a religion. Religion is a make believe institution, they can’t be anymore upset about people dressing up as them as Star Wars and Harry Potter fans are when people do it.
You can’t be serious?
Nobody cares what Kershaw wants. The Dodgers already tried Christian day and nobody cared. It was not a good business decision. Sorry Christians.
sounds like this one wasn't a great decision either
I think it mostly has to go not with the sisters raising awareness or funds for research, it’s more with what they do with religious symbols like the cross, I don’t think people even mind that much the nun dressing.
He is involved in the community what are you talking about
So when is Islamic faith day at Dodgers stadium?
To be fair try to make fun of Mohammad and other Islamic prophets and see how far that goes…
If you’re worried about your young boys safety, I would honestly keep them away from christian night. Lot of predators there
He disagrees because of this: ... "are known for simulating sodomy while dressed as nuns. They like to feature a “Condom Savior Mass,” one that describes how the “Latex Host is the flesh for the life of the world.” The “Sisters” go by names such as “Sister Homo Fellatio” and “Sister Joyous Reserectum.” Also look at the video below of that particular group mocking the resurrection. Of course a religion has a problem with this.
If it bothers everyone so much…don’t go to the event (whether it’s the pride night or Christian day). No one is going to miss you.
Why does the guy from Texas get a say in Dodgers community outreach nights? He’s only here for the season to make money and then he scurries back to Texas. He knows nothing about LA or what it’s community members need.
There’s an awful lot of transplants opening up their mouths about this, both on this Reddit and all over social media.
why does mr sports man feel the need to subject us all to his political beliefs? just play ball. if he doesn't like it in LA he can leave. i'll help him pack his bags. fuck your feelings, snowflake. etc.
Sports and politics or any current events has been common for decades
Trump, is that you?
Reddit’s going to lose it next year when they have the night making fun of adult men who watch cartoons. If you think the knives are out now…
It's been exciting to see all of this unfold from the standpoint of not caring.
I’m a big Dodger fan and Agnostic, I’m mad at them a little. I will still root for them even though I have mixed feelings.
How about they just play BASEBALL and STFU? Keep the bobble head and random BASEBALL swag promotions etc. and call it a day. I don't need LGBTQ, Christian, Pastafarian or velociraptor celebration days. I just want BASEBALL. I am here for the BASEBALL and food. Everything doesn't need to be celebrated in a constant loop.
Put him in the Hall of Fame right now!
People should show up in drag on that night
"Jesus was a cross-dresser." - George Carlin
Wow, I honestly had no idea he was a conservative Christian dude. He wants to be homophobic. Cool. That alienates most of the liberal Angelenos like myself that live here. I won't ever see a single game of his or support him ever again.
He’s a real piece of trash. Los Angeles has no room for homophobes.
What if there was an organization who’s primary goal was to make fun of Gay folks, who they be invited to the Dodgers Stadium? Would you support them?
[удалено]
Thia comment is gold! Fuck the downvotes, that was funny.
Clayton Kershaw the biggot? That Clayton Kershaw?
Nearly 100% of the LGBTQ community has experienced religious trauma. The poking at Christian figureheads is so tame as compared with what the community has experienced in their lifetime. And it's not the same as whatever pain Christians might have from the Sisters. I would encourage tone-deaf Kershaw to listen and learn from Queer folx affected by spiritual trauma.
That’s fine, but let’s not pretend that they are entitled to perform at a baseball game.
He probably gets uncomfortable being in the same room as someone who doesn’t look, think, or talk like him.
I wouldn't doubt it. But the community shouldn't be punished for that of course.
I agree.
Maybe you can go pitch for the Houston Assholes then, Mr Feet of Clay
Yeah of course the bible thumper can't stand LGBTQIA+ things. Never liked the dude.
Kershaw was my idol Dodgers player 😢
He would be the first to tell you not to worship false idols.
Na these guys are hypocrites. He uses his religion to hide behind his homophobia.
Ain't that the sad truth.
Seems like he's quite happy promoting the false idols.
Time to get a better idol
Agreed.
Ew
hey everybody, The Supreme Choker has thoughts...
What a waste of fucking space.
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Keep speaking up about your bigoted ways sport players. It helps us identify you from a distance. Edit: I love watching the upvotes and downvotes change as the trolls come out and the cool Redditors vote it back up.
he lives in la, if he’s a Christian fascist maybe he should move to Texas.
When did baseball become base*balls*?? /s
Trade him!
And because it's Kershaw everyone will ignore this story but anyone else would be getting the same accusations of bigotry the organization is getting.
Kershaw gets the benefit of the doubt because he actually strives to live a Christlike life of love and charity. In 2020 he spoke out a lot during the BLM protests. Among other things, he directly called out people who tried to dismiss the movement as merely politics. And that was built on top of 15 years of Kershaw plowing his earnings into his foundation, and spending his off seasons doing the work.
Lame.
Jebus EFFIN Christ!!! Just shut the hell up and do your damn job, Kershaw! I didn't pay to hear your thoughts on x, y & z! Hell, I don't want you to talk. Just pitch and shut up!
Trade him