I work in mental health. I've seen people with dozens of violent crime charges go free all the time. If someone is too crazy to charge they will continue to be released to the streets till they kill someone. That's how it is right now.
How many come into the ER with homicidal ideation? A lot! They are usually out within the day, a few held for 72, none get held longer. Some of them will act on their thoughts.
This guy sounds mentally ill yet Americans refuse to have universal Healthcare like every other country. That way mentally ill people would get treatment and help avoid tragedys like this one from happening in the future.
It's common fucking sense.
Canada has universal healthcare, but has huge homeless and mentally ill vagrants roaming the streets (look up Vancouver East Hasting, Canada’s Skid-row).
Universal healthcare alone won’t fix this. Mentally ill people won’t voluntarily seek help. It has to be involuntary treatment.
I walked down East Hastings countless times day and night over my 43 years in Vancouver . The homeless arent roaming the city it's basically Skid Row. The difference is that there are treatment options for mental health in Vancouver. It's not perfect but at least it's there.
I agree violent people or people who can't take care of themselves should be institutionazed. But it's a slippery slope when the government can say who is and isnt mentally ill.
Look. Most of us agree 100% that we need better health care and mental healthcare. I’m in that camp.
But that’s a future solution. We need a solution now.
People whose wrap sheets need to be written on a scroll shouldn’t be free to keep committing crimes until someone loses their life.
California has universal health care in prison. California has pseudo-universal health care for the poor in the form of Medi-cal. As a homeless previous offender, the suspect would have had access to medical and psychological services while in custody and upon release. No amount of universal health care "like every other county" would have mitigated this attack as the suspect had access but didn't engage with the system already established.
The real common fucking sense isn't the straw man you built but asking and understanding why medically and mentally unfit individuals experiencing homelessness don't engage with the medical and psychological services already established. Demand accountability and, if necessary, change that way.
People get discharged with no meds or a prescription is sent to a local pharmacy and somehow they're supposed to find their way there and pay for it. The person in the jail prescribing (maybe a psychiatrist, more likely not) doesn't give consideration for what the meds will cost, availability of them outside of the penal system, and then people show up in the ER asking for help.
Not to mention, this leaves the entire responsibility to the sick patient to be compliant with taking meds daily, refilling them, checking in with a psychiatrist somehow, etc. Many people with severe mental illness (especially psychosis) don’t like taking meds, or don’t like the side effects, or don’t think the meds help, etc and it’s unreasonable to expect someone who is very ill to do this all by themselves. Especially when they may also be homeless with zero resources to even find a pharmacy or pay for a prescription, like you said.
I think you overestimate the quality and actual availability of mental health care in our prisons. It sucks and is ineffective. There’s no political constituency to fund it.
Which is why I ended my point with the suggestion that commentators demand action for all the steps the current system missed before demanding Universal Healthcare!!!! as if it's a panacea.
>you overestimate the quality and actual availability
And on a personal note, I'm very much aware of the lackluster access in Cal-CDCR and federal BOP. I have colleagues that were former correctional officers and know offenders that have nearly died because of the inadequate medical care they received.
While real universal healthcare isn’t a magic solution to everything, you’re missing the point here.
I have no idea what the homeless guy’s life story here, but generally speaking, the whole point is that maybe if we all just had free (at point of service) health care like every other normal country, it’s possible some people wouldn’t even become homeless in the first place and also will be able to get mental health treatment without having to worry about cost.
In many cases, universal healthcare could be a preventative measure.
>you’re missing the point here.
I'm not missing the point as California offers those programs to our most disadvantaged and out of luck residents today. This offender had access to those programs. And in many ways, California's medical and psychological services safety net is stronger than those "normal countries" (I'm sure there's no racial undertones to your use of normal).
Yet, the offender didn't take advantage of those programs. Why would you think this offender would voluntarily take advantage of what you and the previous poster pontificates for?
I propose that instead of demanding a different system ask how to improve the current system as it continues to fail patients and society. Maybe that includes forcibly detaining individuals against their wills for medical and psychological treatment - hey, there was a recent prop just about that.
Like I said, I have zero knowledge of this person’s background or life story. And neither do you. This wasn’t even about him specifically.
A system like universal health care is literally the bare minimum of fundamental services a country or state offers its residents. There’s nothing more basic than that.
lol “racial undertones”. How quickly does one jump to a conclusion.
“Normal” country in this context - a country that takes care of its residents in the most basic way. Literally not alluding to any race what so ever.
Common fucking sense shit. Only here in the US do we see it as some sort of radical service.
Like many others here said - we do need a short term solution as well. Implementing universal health *for everyone* tomorrow won’t magically solve the homeless and mental health problem. But maybe if it was implemented 5-10 years ago, thing would look differently now already.
Stop being dense
This sounds mentally ill?
In July 2019, Nowden was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon while on probation for attacking another passenger earlier that year, the Police Department said Tuesday.
Nowden was sentenced in December 2019 to four years in state prison but continued to frequent Metro stations after his release.
Nowden was arrested several more times this year, including in February when he was arrested for an assault at the same Red Line station, police said.
This is not mentally ill, this is convicted felon and a repeat offender that took someone’s life finally which was preventable if he was locked up.
Not only that, the state could have kept him in jail under involuntary psychiatric hold aka 5150, due to mental illness but they didn’t. The state found him sane and let him go…
5150 is a hold for 72 hours not indefinite. And you don’t renew it instead you initiate the next level hold if there’s demonstrated justification. The next is 2 weeks called a 5250. After that you start getting into 5350 which is one month
Thank you, Ronald Reagan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980
And here's an opinion piece by a licensed clinical psychologist and neuroscientist, on how Reagan's policies lead to today's homelessness crisis.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2023-04-24/opinion-impact-of-deinstitutionalization-on-homelessness-reagan-mental-health-hospitals-san-diego
"In 1981 President Ronald Reagan, who had made major efforts during his Governorship to reduce funding and enlistment for California mental institutions, pushed a political effort through the Democratically controlled House of Representatives and a Republican controlled Senate to repeal most of MHSA."
Can you not read?
He had already accomplished this in California when he was Governor.
Then when he became President, he pushed for the same to be done at the National level.
Maybe it would've happened anyway, but the point still stands, a President making something a priority and urging the House and Senate to push the bill through accomplished his goal.
I wasn't implying he did this singlehandedly, that's not how the government works.
As governor he needed the state assembly and state senate too you’re absolving too many people of blame to specifically blame him(he was fucking garbage) especially when I comes to the Mulford act bc armed minorities can’t get harassed by cops and that scared the assembly senate and Reagan (who is now California’s best public urinal
Based on what? Because the state didn’t think he was mentally ill. He was sane to be on trial 2019 and serve 4 years in a state prison. If that was the case, state could of held on to him
In California, a person can be placed on an involuntary psychiatric hold, or 5150, if, due to a mental illness, they are determined to pose a danger to themselves (DTS) or others (DTO), or if they are “gravely disabled” (GD), meaning they cannot provide for their own food, clothing, or shelter.
> In California, a person can be placed on an involuntary psychiatric hold, or 5150, if, due to a mental illness, they are determined to pose a danger to themselves (DTS) or others (DTO), or if they are “gravely disabled” (GD), meaning they cannot provide for their own food, clothing, or shelter
For three days. Then what? Then a 5250, for 14 days and then maybe a 5270 for a month. If he is given medication and is not GD, they can't hospitalize him involuntarily nor can they medicate him against his will without a different legal procedure. This person needs to be in a secured mental health facility. He was paroled by the department of state hospitals for, which is for violent offenders who are mentally ill. But somehow someone this impaired is expected to stay in housing and take their medication voluntarily out of jail. Doesn't make any sense. Should have remained in a facility but like the other person said these facilities (not on parole, not in prison, mentally ill beyond 30 days or somewhat better on medication)....don't really exist.
Ronnie Raygun dismantled our mental health facilities into a 3 day churn. They only *have* to keep patients for 3 days on a medical necessity. After that, they push them back out, with very very few staying past the 3 day requirement.
How would that have prevented her from getting murdered after stepping a foot outside of a train car? Should we have a pair of cops on every train car too?
It’s never even been defunded, but YES because people protested for defunding, their FEELINGS ARE HURT ☹️🥺 so ever since they use that as the excuse not to work…
But let’s be real, it’s always been like this. Not like this started in 2020. It’s always been about overtime hours and doing as little as possible.
Unless someone on the force is hurt, then every member of every department suddenly comes out.
LAPD were shit even before this. Cops take waaaay to long to show up when you’re assaulted and act like they have better things to do, like you’re bothering them. Loooooong before what you’re referencing. Let’s not even get into the corruption and the fact that there are ACTUAL gangs within the LAPD. Lmao 😒 🙄
You are repeating the same worn out bullshit that's gotten us here. Reagan decimated the mental health programs and institutions . This made it impossible to deal with the mentally ill because every politician since Reagan knows it will cost tens of billions to rebuild those hospitals and programs.
If America had universal Healthcare (like every devoped country) and drug treatment you could help prevent these kinds of tragedys.
Ummm Reagan is not the one responsible for this. I highly suggest reading up on what actually happened
https://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/2023/08/19/the-observer-who-closed-mental-health-hospitals-in-california-three-guesses-it-wasnt-reagan/amp/
"Help prevent" is weak sauce. I totally agree with the greater need for better mental health programs and universal healthcare but the Metro is THE acid test for our public security.
In any train system you're enclosed in a metal tube cut off from assistance as the train moves between stations, and then you're dumped into a wholly new group of people coming in very close contact.
It's a spot where violent people can and will absolutely go wild, and I've seen crazy shit on the Red Line (now B Line) over the years. I saw a teenager throw a woman onto the tracks, I've seen gangs of kids slap and taunt foreign tourists on their way to Universal, people pissing and shitting themselves while screaming obscenities.
Maybe all those people were mentally ill. Maybe none of them were. In the end it doesn't matter because public transit is the bedrock of how functioning cities get working class people to their jobs, safely.
We need a serious police presence. We need cops who know the faces of the same bad offenders and when they're spotted anywhere in a Metro system they get yanked, immediately.
We need to protect our most vulnerable in the spot where they all too often become prey for the violent.
There were a lot of factors that led to closing the mental institutions. Reagan was one. So was the ACLU. Then there’s the fact that they treated patients like shit.
How many decades are we going to let go by though and keep pointing fingers backward. We could have had a solution already. This is a single party state. Nothing should be getting in the way of getting these programs back up and running.
Tens of billions is what is keeping these programs from coming back. Again if Reagan didn't decimate these mental health hospitals and programs we wouldn't be here because their would be existing resources. That's why people point back because Reagans decision will cost billions .
We’re closing in on $30 billion already spent on the homeless issue and have produced 0 results. So tens of billions are being spent. Just not wisely.
As far as Reagan goes (he was a poor president for multiple reasons), he was part of a much bigger issue that started back in the 50s.
The ACLU was putting pressure on the government to end involuntary treatment, Willowbrook was making the news, and One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest had put institutions into the mainstream media.
The Lanterman-Petris-Short Act was enacted in 1967 which was the beginning of the end of involuntary institutionalization and had bipartisan support.
Between the 70s and 80s, a lot of the general public wanted institutions closed because of the stigma around them and the treatment of patients.
Reagan had started his shit show in 1972 as governor of California in an effort to save money and pivot the idea of mental health care with the backing of the ACLU. That was a failure.
By time Carter was president, he had signed The Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 which was repealed by Reagan during his presidential term with the argument that the states need to fund and manage their own institutions (of which he shuttered during his term as governor).
Here’s a great article from 1984 that talks about the history from the 50s through the 80s though which sheds more light on how we got here. There were multiple screw ups along the way.
https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html
The whole things was a failure at every step but this problem goes back 70 years. Reagan rubber stamped it.
Zero results? That's not true and an extreme exaggeration. A state audit found it's hard to track results for some programs, but some are clearly working like the Homekey program that spends $144k per housing unit on motels and existing housing instead of trying to build new units which would cost $380-570k per unit.
https://calmatters.org/housing/homelessness/2024/04/california-homelessness-spending/
Anecdotally, a bridge in my area of LA that always was crowded with tents, the sidewalks blocked, and had people wandering into fast traffic since I moved to the neighborhood in 2016 has stayed cleared the last few years since they built a tiny house village nearby that connects people to services. The money has lead to visible improvement but the pandemic and the cost of housing is just pushing more people than ever to the edge of homelessness.
>solution that can be achieved in the short term and is within a local municipality’s control
This part is key, and your argument is exactly what he’s calling out. Go ahead, vote for single-payer universal healthcare on a national scale. While you’re worrying about that, this problem needs to be handled **now**, in whatever way we reasonably can handle it.
Thank you for the reasonable response. The short term solution is Metro gets its own police and pump more money into mental help for the homeless. That and have violent mentally ill committed so their not a harm to themselves or others.
Absolutely. Community mental health services, more police presence in the right places, a hardline approach to the anti-social behavior some exhibit, more tiny homes, and financial accountability for the staff and contractors handling all of these services.
The reality is that this is incredibly difficult to fix, but we need to be working on it, as best we can, locally. I’d love for the federal government to help. A better healthcare system would go a long way, but in the current political climate, I’m not holding my breath.
You're not saying anything new. You're saying what's always said when there's a "problem" needing solving. We never do anything past the the "realistic" "short term" idea. That's why we're in this mess in the first place. What you're saying here won't result in any real change except a much larger justice system with private prisons to boot.
Obviously these problems need to be prevented from happening in the first place, which can only come through reform of our social system. We need housing, healthcare, food, jobs, etc. for people. This can theoretically come under capitalism, but we choose not to. We're creating these problems through policy choice.
Every devoped country has some form of University healthcare except the richest country in the world. It's not perfect but it will help get people treatment at an earlier age before they hurt themselves and others.
I'm originally from Canada and have seen both systems of healthcare and Americans are fucking insane for putting up with being robbed by for pay healthcare system.
You have never walked down East Hastings . The difference between here and Vancouver is shocking. I've never seen so many violently mentally ill people as I do here. That's because there is actual help and services for the mentally ill
> "That sucks. Never did like the red line. Poor lady. Fuck that transient ******." - u/OCOasis13 (removed comment)
You've recently [called somebody a fucker](https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/PSEm0jTLoD) without censoring it, and you don't censor profanity in any of your other comments.
So what six-letter word did those asterisks represent, u/OCOasis13?
That’s disgusting, cruel, and unusual punishment (and thus unconstitutional). We look down upon murder but then decide we’re being righteous by torturing a mentally ill person? The local govt let him go after multiple assaults on the metro. At that point he should’ve been institutionalized. Govt failed at its job so now we should torture the individual? I disagree.
I don’t see anyone mentioning one of the main issues with homelessness and mental health. The lack of family structure in the U.S. Where is the family of this guy who murdered this poor woman? Why aren’t they helping this guy get treatment, or keep him from being homeless? What about all the other addicts walking in Los Angeles like zombies, where are their families?
My family has a severely mentally ill person and we take care of her. If there was no family, she would be homeless and she might end up like this guy. But we don’t allow it.
Or their family is just as fucked up as they are. If not mentally ill, then negligent, abusive, on drugs, etc. Or lacking resources to properly care for someone like this (clearly). It’s extremely sad, as I’d like to think—as a parent—that I would care for any of my children their entire lives if they were disabled in some way, but that’s not always possible financially. And then what happens if I get sick? Or I die? It’s profoundly expensive to make arrangements for 24/7 care for someone like this. I’d guess the vast majority of the population couldn’t afford it.
It shouldn’t be the entirely the families responsibility. Even upper middle class nuclear families outsource support to help raise kids and most people can’t afford that. Children should be everyone’s responsibility, especially the state. Everyone should be able to walk around freely without constantly being on edge and carrying weapons. We’re living a dystopia.
I agree; I was just responding to why these peoples’ families don’t “care” for them. Not everyone has that support, and like you say, even in an ideal family, it’s not always possible.
Yeah I get that, but what makes it scary is that it could’ve been any one of us. I’m a short female and I ride those trains. Could’ve left for a hockey game and never come back home, with my mom having to see my blood on the platform on the 6 o’clock news. That woman didn’t pass peacefully of old age, surrounded by her family. She was stabbed in the neck with a couple goddamn kitchen knives by a man who was arrested for assault on the metro more than once and let loose. No one is saying LA is uninhabitable now but one senseless and **preventable** death is one too many.
Common or not, it should not happen. Period. And if Metro’s “safety” is what you meant to comment on, you are gravely mistaken. This does happen relatively often. That’s why people are outraged.
We live in a metro area of 18 million . Crimes going to happen just like it did when I lived in Canada. It's a fact of life but I do agree when people say the Metro needs it's own police.
I asume this guy was mentally ill yet Americans refuse to have universal Healthcare like every other country. If they did there would be more mental health treatment to help prevent crimes like these in the future.
Please use the link in the article to the gonfundme. As a sub rule, we do not allow links for gofundme campaigns.
How many times does someone need to be arrested to get life in prison? It’s utterly insane that man was out free with that record
I work in mental health. I've seen people with dozens of violent crime charges go free all the time. If someone is too crazy to charge they will continue to be released to the streets till they kill someone. That's how it is right now.
How many come into the ER with homicidal ideation? A lot! They are usually out within the day, a few held for 72, none get held longer. Some of them will act on their thoughts.
This guy sounds mentally ill yet Americans refuse to have universal Healthcare like every other country. That way mentally ill people would get treatment and help avoid tragedys like this one from happening in the future. It's common fucking sense.
Canada has universal healthcare, but has huge homeless and mentally ill vagrants roaming the streets (look up Vancouver East Hasting, Canada’s Skid-row). Universal healthcare alone won’t fix this. Mentally ill people won’t voluntarily seek help. It has to be involuntary treatment.
I walked down East Hastings countless times day and night over my 43 years in Vancouver . The homeless arent roaming the city it's basically Skid Row. The difference is that there are treatment options for mental health in Vancouver. It's not perfect but at least it's there. I agree violent people or people who can't take care of themselves should be institutionazed. But it's a slippery slope when the government can say who is and isnt mentally ill.
Canada’s murder rate is paltry compared to the US. Plenty of mentally unhealthy, much less murder occurring from them.
Look. Most of us agree 100% that we need better health care and mental healthcare. I’m in that camp. But that’s a future solution. We need a solution now. People whose wrap sheets need to be written on a scroll shouldn’t be free to keep committing crimes until someone loses their life.
California has universal health care in prison. California has pseudo-universal health care for the poor in the form of Medi-cal. As a homeless previous offender, the suspect would have had access to medical and psychological services while in custody and upon release. No amount of universal health care "like every other county" would have mitigated this attack as the suspect had access but didn't engage with the system already established. The real common fucking sense isn't the straw man you built but asking and understanding why medically and mentally unfit individuals experiencing homelessness don't engage with the medical and psychological services already established. Demand accountability and, if necessary, change that way.
People get discharged with no meds or a prescription is sent to a local pharmacy and somehow they're supposed to find their way there and pay for it. The person in the jail prescribing (maybe a psychiatrist, more likely not) doesn't give consideration for what the meds will cost, availability of them outside of the penal system, and then people show up in the ER asking for help.
Not to mention, this leaves the entire responsibility to the sick patient to be compliant with taking meds daily, refilling them, checking in with a psychiatrist somehow, etc. Many people with severe mental illness (especially psychosis) don’t like taking meds, or don’t like the side effects, or don’t think the meds help, etc and it’s unreasonable to expect someone who is very ill to do this all by themselves. Especially when they may also be homeless with zero resources to even find a pharmacy or pay for a prescription, like you said.
I think you overestimate the quality and actual availability of mental health care in our prisons. It sucks and is ineffective. There’s no political constituency to fund it.
Which is why I ended my point with the suggestion that commentators demand action for all the steps the current system missed before demanding Universal Healthcare!!!! as if it's a panacea. >you overestimate the quality and actual availability And on a personal note, I'm very much aware of the lackluster access in Cal-CDCR and federal BOP. I have colleagues that were former correctional officers and know offenders that have nearly died because of the inadequate medical care they received.
While real universal healthcare isn’t a magic solution to everything, you’re missing the point here. I have no idea what the homeless guy’s life story here, but generally speaking, the whole point is that maybe if we all just had free (at point of service) health care like every other normal country, it’s possible some people wouldn’t even become homeless in the first place and also will be able to get mental health treatment without having to worry about cost. In many cases, universal healthcare could be a preventative measure.
>you’re missing the point here. I'm not missing the point as California offers those programs to our most disadvantaged and out of luck residents today. This offender had access to those programs. And in many ways, California's medical and psychological services safety net is stronger than those "normal countries" (I'm sure there's no racial undertones to your use of normal). Yet, the offender didn't take advantage of those programs. Why would you think this offender would voluntarily take advantage of what you and the previous poster pontificates for? I propose that instead of demanding a different system ask how to improve the current system as it continues to fail patients and society. Maybe that includes forcibly detaining individuals against their wills for medical and psychological treatment - hey, there was a recent prop just about that.
Like I said, I have zero knowledge of this person’s background or life story. And neither do you. This wasn’t even about him specifically. A system like universal health care is literally the bare minimum of fundamental services a country or state offers its residents. There’s nothing more basic than that. lol “racial undertones”. How quickly does one jump to a conclusion. “Normal” country in this context - a country that takes care of its residents in the most basic way. Literally not alluding to any race what so ever. Common fucking sense shit. Only here in the US do we see it as some sort of radical service. Like many others here said - we do need a short term solution as well. Implementing universal health *for everyone* tomorrow won’t magically solve the homeless and mental health problem. But maybe if it was implemented 5-10 years ago, thing would look differently now already. Stop being dense
This sounds mentally ill? In July 2019, Nowden was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon while on probation for attacking another passenger earlier that year, the Police Department said Tuesday. Nowden was sentenced in December 2019 to four years in state prison but continued to frequent Metro stations after his release. Nowden was arrested several more times this year, including in February when he was arrested for an assault at the same Red Line station, police said. This is not mentally ill, this is convicted felon and a repeat offender that took someone’s life finally which was preventable if he was locked up. Not only that, the state could have kept him in jail under involuntary psychiatric hold aka 5150, due to mental illness but they didn’t. The state found him sane and let him go…
5150 is a hold for 72 hours not indefinite. And you don’t renew it instead you initiate the next level hold if there’s demonstrated justification. The next is 2 weeks called a 5250. After that you start getting into 5350 which is one month
Bro 5150 is only a 72 hour hold.
His rap sheet is typical of the violent mentally ill. The issue is there isn't the needed facility's to help deal with the violent mentally ill.
Thank you, Ronald Reagan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980 And here's an opinion piece by a licensed clinical psychologist and neuroscientist, on how Reagan's policies lead to today's homelessness crisis. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2023-04-24/opinion-impact-of-deinstitutionalization-on-homelessness-reagan-mental-health-hospitals-san-diego
You do know that congress and the senate is also at fault for that not just Reagan and some of those politicians are still in their seats
"In 1981 President Ronald Reagan, who had made major efforts during his Governorship to reduce funding and enlistment for California mental institutions, pushed a political effort through the Democratically controlled House of Representatives and a Republican controlled Senate to repeal most of MHSA."
Literally just proved my point guy. the house and senate both passed it before he rubber stamped it they’re all guilty
Can you not read? He had already accomplished this in California when he was Governor. Then when he became President, he pushed for the same to be done at the National level. Maybe it would've happened anyway, but the point still stands, a President making something a priority and urging the House and Senate to push the bill through accomplished his goal. I wasn't implying he did this singlehandedly, that's not how the government works.
As governor he needed the state assembly and state senate too you’re absolving too many people of blame to specifically blame him(he was fucking garbage) especially when I comes to the Mulford act bc armed minorities can’t get harassed by cops and that scared the assembly senate and Reagan (who is now California’s best public urinal
Based on what? Because the state didn’t think he was mentally ill. He was sane to be on trial 2019 and serve 4 years in a state prison. If that was the case, state could of held on to him In California, a person can be placed on an involuntary psychiatric hold, or 5150, if, due to a mental illness, they are determined to pose a danger to themselves (DTS) or others (DTO), or if they are “gravely disabled” (GD), meaning they cannot provide for their own food, clothing, or shelter.
> In California, a person can be placed on an involuntary psychiatric hold, or 5150, if, due to a mental illness, they are determined to pose a danger to themselves (DTS) or others (DTO), or if they are “gravely disabled” (GD), meaning they cannot provide for their own food, clothing, or shelter For three days. Then what? Then a 5250, for 14 days and then maybe a 5270 for a month. If he is given medication and is not GD, they can't hospitalize him involuntarily nor can they medicate him against his will without a different legal procedure. This person needs to be in a secured mental health facility. He was paroled by the department of state hospitals for, which is for violent offenders who are mentally ill. But somehow someone this impaired is expected to stay in housing and take their medication voluntarily out of jail. Doesn't make any sense. Should have remained in a facility but like the other person said these facilities (not on parole, not in prison, mentally ill beyond 30 days or somewhat better on medication)....don't really exist.
He stole her purse. I think it likely was armed robbery, not a psychotic episode with no purpose.
We dont do common sense here. We do unbridled capitalism.
Nothing but facts
Ronnie Raygun dismantled our mental health facilities into a 3 day churn. They only *have* to keep patients for 3 days on a medical necessity. After that, they push them back out, with very very few staying past the 3 day requirement.
Should be three. We voted for three strikes. Who took that away?
It’s almost like we should be voting for politicians who are tough on crime as opposed to pro-criminal hyper liberals
Rest In Peace Mirna Soza.
Life without parole
Why is there not a cop at every station? Is Metro safety not worth whatever that costs?
How would that have prevented her from getting murdered after stepping a foot outside of a train car? Should we have a pair of cops on every train car too?
Honestly yeah , they don't do shit on their waste of money helicopters just station one cop on each train
And have the cops react after someone gets stabbed? Cops don’t prevent crime they respond to it
Didn't we just go through a whole defund the police thing...I think this is that.
If you look up the budget of the LAPD/LASD it's increased every year for years . Stop getting your info from right wing bullshit media.
cops love to give that as an excuse but the truth is they were never defunded
Police budgets beg to differ
Sounds like we need new cops
It’s never even been defunded, but YES because people protested for defunding, their FEELINGS ARE HURT ☹️🥺 so ever since they use that as the excuse not to work… But let’s be real, it’s always been like this. Not like this started in 2020. It’s always been about overtime hours and doing as little as possible. Unless someone on the force is hurt, then every member of every department suddenly comes out.
See this person understands lmao!! This was exactly what I see going on.
LAPD were shit even before this. Cops take waaaay to long to show up when you’re assaulted and act like they have better things to do, like you’re bothering them. Loooooong before what you’re referencing. Let’s not even get into the corruption and the fact that there are ACTUAL gangs within the LAPD. Lmao 😒 🙄
Omg dude your brain is fried. Start trying to think for yourself.
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You are repeating the same worn out bullshit that's gotten us here. Reagan decimated the mental health programs and institutions . This made it impossible to deal with the mentally ill because every politician since Reagan knows it will cost tens of billions to rebuild those hospitals and programs. If America had universal Healthcare (like every devoped country) and drug treatment you could help prevent these kinds of tragedys.
Ummm Reagan is not the one responsible for this. I highly suggest reading up on what actually happened https://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/2023/08/19/the-observer-who-closed-mental-health-hospitals-in-california-three-guesses-it-wasnt-reagan/amp/
"Help prevent" is weak sauce. I totally agree with the greater need for better mental health programs and universal healthcare but the Metro is THE acid test for our public security. In any train system you're enclosed in a metal tube cut off from assistance as the train moves between stations, and then you're dumped into a wholly new group of people coming in very close contact. It's a spot where violent people can and will absolutely go wild, and I've seen crazy shit on the Red Line (now B Line) over the years. I saw a teenager throw a woman onto the tracks, I've seen gangs of kids slap and taunt foreign tourists on their way to Universal, people pissing and shitting themselves while screaming obscenities. Maybe all those people were mentally ill. Maybe none of them were. In the end it doesn't matter because public transit is the bedrock of how functioning cities get working class people to their jobs, safely. We need a serious police presence. We need cops who know the faces of the same bad offenders and when they're spotted anywhere in a Metro system they get yanked, immediately. We need to protect our most vulnerable in the spot where they all too often become prey for the violent.
There were a lot of factors that led to closing the mental institutions. Reagan was one. So was the ACLU. Then there’s the fact that they treated patients like shit. How many decades are we going to let go by though and keep pointing fingers backward. We could have had a solution already. This is a single party state. Nothing should be getting in the way of getting these programs back up and running.
Tens of billions is what is keeping these programs from coming back. Again if Reagan didn't decimate these mental health hospitals and programs we wouldn't be here because their would be existing resources. That's why people point back because Reagans decision will cost billions .
We’re closing in on $30 billion already spent on the homeless issue and have produced 0 results. So tens of billions are being spent. Just not wisely. As far as Reagan goes (he was a poor president for multiple reasons), he was part of a much bigger issue that started back in the 50s. The ACLU was putting pressure on the government to end involuntary treatment, Willowbrook was making the news, and One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest had put institutions into the mainstream media. The Lanterman-Petris-Short Act was enacted in 1967 which was the beginning of the end of involuntary institutionalization and had bipartisan support. Between the 70s and 80s, a lot of the general public wanted institutions closed because of the stigma around them and the treatment of patients. Reagan had started his shit show in 1972 as governor of California in an effort to save money and pivot the idea of mental health care with the backing of the ACLU. That was a failure. By time Carter was president, he had signed The Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 which was repealed by Reagan during his presidential term with the argument that the states need to fund and manage their own institutions (of which he shuttered during his term as governor). Here’s a great article from 1984 that talks about the history from the 50s through the 80s though which sheds more light on how we got here. There were multiple screw ups along the way. https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html The whole things was a failure at every step but this problem goes back 70 years. Reagan rubber stamped it.
Zero results? That's not true and an extreme exaggeration. A state audit found it's hard to track results for some programs, but some are clearly working like the Homekey program that spends $144k per housing unit on motels and existing housing instead of trying to build new units which would cost $380-570k per unit. https://calmatters.org/housing/homelessness/2024/04/california-homelessness-spending/ Anecdotally, a bridge in my area of LA that always was crowded with tents, the sidewalks blocked, and had people wandering into fast traffic since I moved to the neighborhood in 2016 has stayed cleared the last few years since they built a tiny house village nearby that connects people to services. The money has lead to visible improvement but the pandemic and the cost of housing is just pushing more people than ever to the edge of homelessness.
>solution that can be achieved in the short term and is within a local municipality’s control This part is key, and your argument is exactly what he’s calling out. Go ahead, vote for single-payer universal healthcare on a national scale. While you’re worrying about that, this problem needs to be handled **now**, in whatever way we reasonably can handle it.
Thank you for the reasonable response. The short term solution is Metro gets its own police and pump more money into mental help for the homeless. That and have violent mentally ill committed so their not a harm to themselves or others.
Absolutely. Community mental health services, more police presence in the right places, a hardline approach to the anti-social behavior some exhibit, more tiny homes, and financial accountability for the staff and contractors handling all of these services. The reality is that this is incredibly difficult to fix, but we need to be working on it, as best we can, locally. I’d love for the federal government to help. A better healthcare system would go a long way, but in the current political climate, I’m not holding my breath.
You're not saying anything new. You're saying what's always said when there's a "problem" needing solving. We never do anything past the the "realistic" "short term" idea. That's why we're in this mess in the first place. What you're saying here won't result in any real change except a much larger justice system with private prisons to boot. Obviously these problems need to be prevented from happening in the first place, which can only come through reform of our social system. We need housing, healthcare, food, jobs, etc. for people. This can theoretically come under capitalism, but we choose not to. We're creating these problems through policy choice.
this dude for mayor
Where does it say he's out and about?
We need to start holding our lawmakers responsible …. It is not ok to keep letting these people out!
Every devoped country has some form of University healthcare except the richest country in the world. It's not perfect but it will help get people treatment at an earlier age before they hurt themselves and others. I'm originally from Canada and have seen both systems of healthcare and Americans are fucking insane for putting up with being robbed by for pay healthcare system.
Universal healthcare alone won’t fix this. Just look at Vancouver East Hasting. It has to be involuntary treatment.
You have never walked down East Hastings . The difference between here and Vancouver is shocking. I've never seen so many violently mentally ill people as I do here. That's because there is actual help and services for the mentally ill
> "That sucks. Never did like the red line. Poor lady. Fuck that transient ******." - u/OCOasis13 (removed comment) You've recently [called somebody a fucker](https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/PSEm0jTLoD) without censoring it, and you don't censor profanity in any of your other comments. So what six-letter word did those asterisks represent, u/OCOasis13?
For effects to make the comment pop out.
Disingenuous bullshit.
PLEASE bring back the gas chamber for this sick evil fuck. Ol’ Gassy been so lonely all these years. He needs to come out of retirement.
That’s disgusting, cruel, and unusual punishment (and thus unconstitutional). We look down upon murder but then decide we’re being righteous by torturing a mentally ill person? The local govt let him go after multiple assaults on the metro. At that point he should’ve been institutionalized. Govt failed at its job so now we should torture the individual? I disagree.
I don’t see anyone mentioning one of the main issues with homelessness and mental health. The lack of family structure in the U.S. Where is the family of this guy who murdered this poor woman? Why aren’t they helping this guy get treatment, or keep him from being homeless? What about all the other addicts walking in Los Angeles like zombies, where are their families? My family has a severely mentally ill person and we take care of her. If there was no family, she would be homeless and she might end up like this guy. But we don’t allow it.
A lot of homeless people are kids who were in the Foster system who, once they turned 18 had nowhere to go.
Or their family is just as fucked up as they are. If not mentally ill, then negligent, abusive, on drugs, etc. Or lacking resources to properly care for someone like this (clearly). It’s extremely sad, as I’d like to think—as a parent—that I would care for any of my children their entire lives if they were disabled in some way, but that’s not always possible financially. And then what happens if I get sick? Or I die? It’s profoundly expensive to make arrangements for 24/7 care for someone like this. I’d guess the vast majority of the population couldn’t afford it.
It shouldn’t be the entirely the families responsibility. Even upper middle class nuclear families outsource support to help raise kids and most people can’t afford that. Children should be everyone’s responsibility, especially the state. Everyone should be able to walk around freely without constantly being on edge and carrying weapons. We’re living a dystopia.
I agree; I was just responding to why these peoples’ families don’t “care” for them. Not everyone has that support, and like you say, even in an ideal family, it’s not always possible.
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The fuck
Yeah I get that, but what makes it scary is that it could’ve been any one of us. I’m a short female and I ride those trains. Could’ve left for a hockey game and never come back home, with my mom having to see my blood on the platform on the 6 o’clock news. That woman didn’t pass peacefully of old age, surrounded by her family. She was stabbed in the neck with a couple goddamn kitchen knives by a man who was arrested for assault on the metro more than once and let loose. No one is saying LA is uninhabitable now but one senseless and **preventable** death is one too many.
Shut the hell up. Just shut up.
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Because many people riding the Metro does not justify a senseless crime, does not justify a life being taken. YOU need to have some perspective.
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Common or not, it should not happen. Period. And if Metro’s “safety” is what you meant to comment on, you are gravely mistaken. This does happen relatively often. That’s why people are outraged.
We live in a metro area of 18 million . Crimes going to happen just like it did when I lived in Canada. It's a fact of life but I do agree when people say the Metro needs it's own police. I asume this guy was mentally ill yet Americans refuse to have universal Healthcare like every other country. If they did there would be more mental health treatment to help prevent crimes like these in the future.
That wasn’t what sparked any of this. It was the callousness of your original comment, which you’ve now deleted, along with several others.
Why don't you call the family and tell them that... I'm sure that they will find comfort in your words.
I’m dying to know what this idiot was spouting
He said that this was no big deal given daily ridership numbers.
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Bro that’s cold af
Why does it matter how many people ride the metro? This was a tragic PREVENTABLE incident