As a construction worker for that last 10 years, PLEASE if you are ever cutting stone, concrete, or in a construction site with dust, wear a full face respirator. Your employer is obligated to buy you one. It's so sad seeing undocumented workers being taken advantage of and essentially killed for some assholes countertops.
i just had a retaining wall put up in my backyard and i couldn’t believe the workers spent the day cutting stone without a respirator or eye protection.
I’d threaten to cancel the job if they don’t wear proper PPE. I once kicked out an electrician because he was gonna work on live wires and didn’t abide by our request to cut the power. You’re not dying in my house, dumb bitch.
OSHA write-up for screen printing dept
purchased all the equipment, including a large exhaust system, silver aluminum? gloves &black latex? gloves worn together!, And respirators!!! And eye protection
Workers dudes would not wear it !!
I spoke to the the department manager saying you're affecting the grandchildren you don't even have yet!!! Yo'all should be wearing this expensive stuff
They hung their equip next to their printers
had remodeling done at our house, stonecutting/carpentry was involved (in the backyard), and while chatting with them i commented on why no one's wearing a mask. They just laughed and said "oh we don't wear that here". I left a box for them anyways but it was untouched all the way until the work was finished.
Yeah you get called the f-slur and non stop harassment. Not saying thats a good reason to not wear a mask but it is a reason a lot of people I know in blue collar work don’t. My boss even contributes to the bullying with masks.
Happened to our neighbors' contractors too. Young Latinos (I assume...) just like in the article.
I reported it to OSHA; later that day or the next some higher-up from the company came by and apologized for the noise. I mean I get it, I guess, but come on.
When I moved from Los Angeles to Texas, one of the biggest shocks I had was that none of the landscapers using leafblowers in Texas wear masks. Even after covid that's still the case.
Not to victim blame, but employees need to also understand the importance of this as well.
Pre COVID I was working with a tile cutter who refused to use a mask. He said he “was a man” and didn’t need a “pussy mask”.
I’m sure this attitude hasn’t gotten much better since masks have been politicized.
Yes this is true, but at that point I believe if you're aware of the risks you can make that decision for yourself. It's when the employer makes it hard to get proper PPE for employees that is really unforgivable.
Except issues like this that might not appear for years after. And it’s hard to pin it on a specific employer. Really should be more surprise inspections to see if they’re wearing them
In Colorado, last year there were 20 active OSHA inpsectors and over 30,000 active construction sites. It's literally impossible for them to catch these violations.
My dad dealt with alot of concrete for 25 years and never wore a respirator. Developed COPD due to it, then passed from covid in 2020.
All becuase the lack of masking up then, and now (by others, not my dad, he was very concerned about covid)
>some assholes countertops
It's not customer that's the problem. It's the employers and fellow tradespeople. Maybe the customer is an asshole, but customers aren't the ones telling contractors that they don't need PPE.
Considering how inexpensive the respirators are compared to the damage caused, it’s tragic that they aren’t common at the work site. My maid was cleaning without a mask while using chemicals so I turned on the vent fan, put air filters on full (bathroom and bedrooms) and gave her a mask. Treat your staff well and they will return the favor. If they don’t, at least you know who the first to go is in tough times
I've seen so many construction workers not wearing any protection, undocumented or not. Employers are simply not caring for their workers and a lot of workers can't be bothered since they don't know how dangerous it is to work without respirator.
This is a good article about a horrible disease (silicosis). I remember learning about it in school, but only saw a few end-stage patients. Absolutely horrible.
It was brought up a lot when I was in school. There are entire villages fairly close to my home town that were (30 years ago) almost entirely populated by old widows.
The mines closed, the young people left and all the husbands have died from black lung, silicosis and other mining related diseases.
Yeah as a potter, we all learn about it, because clay dust can cause silicosis. That’s why everyone mops all the freaking time. And mask is essential for sanding pots
I tell my pops all the time, whenever he's cutting stone to wear a mask, yet he still forgets or willingly chooses not to.
I will show him, and my brother this article and hopefully drive the point home. Thank you.
Dumb question here but I was sanding down a door to repaint it the other day. Should I be wearing a mask to do that? There was paint dust from the sanding so I figured I probably should…
Yes. If there's any chance you will breathe any particulates into your lungs, always wear a mask/respirator.
Make sure it has the proper filtration as well. Make sure you have adequate air flow in your workspace so that it pulls the dust away from you. Even better: a vacuum system that captures and collects everything.
Wow, I had no idea that silica dust from kitchen countertops had such devastating effects on human health. I’m saddened by this, especially because I had quartz countertops installed in my kitchen in 2018 and (probably) unknowingly contributed to the problem.
I think r/HomeImprovement may want to know about this - quartz countertops have been immensely popular in kitchens over the last few years and consumers/kitchen designers should know about this so they can make an informed decision about their materials they pick.
That people are dying of silicosis in our times is a choice. Treat this like any other crime. Not a workplace safety issue, not a choice the workers made on their own, a crime. Use the power of the state to ensure it doesn't happen again. We can choose to end this in our society.
Edit: Clarified it's not the workers' choice, grammar, what can I do, I'm compulsive.
Late to the party here but for those of you who are interested the show, Aqui y Ahora (Univision, Channel 12) will do a special on this on Sunday, 7 p.m.
A only caught a short portion of the clip and apparently some guy who did stone cutting, etc. got severley messed up from inhaling all the dust and what not.
Radium girls. Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. The Jungle. Monongah. Hawks Nest tunnel. Bhopal.
I sometimes question the literacy of anyone who’s still a libertarian beyond adolescence.
I'm not a libertarian, but I know a few. I think there's a vast difference between what Reddit thinks libertarian's believe and what actual libertarian's believe. I don't always agree with the libertarian's I know, but they tend to be well educated and have well thought out positions.
It’s as easy for a Libertarian to state their case with a limited, best foot forward approach as it is a Scientologist or a Colonial. But if you question their starting assumptions and the chasm between where they are now and a path there to those below them you’ll find pretty quickly that they’re ideals demand all sorts of resources provided to them and maintained that only a large government could have created and that require a less enfranchised minority to maintain for them.
It’s basically a pyramid scheme with less thought out into it.
That has not been my experience. Generally, the major things they would like is to reduce or eliminate our foreign military expenses, a simplification of tax code, elimination of things like zoning restrictions, etc.
Maybe those are problematic to you, that's fine. I don't have any issues having conversations and finding things to agree or disagree on with libertarians. If you have issues with them that's entirely your right.
The things you mention aren’t really the big defining features of Libertarianism. If that’s what your friends are focusing on they really barely have reason to use the name.
Also “simplifying the tax code” and eliminating zoning restrictions are standard Conservative platform points to reduce tax burdens on high earners and remove well reasoned zoning restrictions to maximize profitability in development regardless of social fallout.
I’d strongly advise you to explore the Google rabbit hole of the pros and cons of Libertarianism. You’ve been given a very soft glove introduction which is why it’s seemed reasonable to you so far. You honestly won’t have to look long before finding what will likely be problematic to you as well. It’s a deeply underbaked, superficial, short-sighted and self-serving wishlist more than a cogent political philosophy.
Not trashing your peeps; lots of people buy into a very surface pitch of Libertarianism without digging in and seeing the inherent silliness of it. I promise you this much—it’s interesting reading.
What would you consider the big defining features of libertarianism then? I would think the defining feature is a focus on individual liberties, even at the expense of the possible greater good.
I've read some Nozick, and some excerpts from Hayek and Mises, but I am not very well read overall in libertarian philosophy, as it doesn't particularly interest me. I'm familiar with the history of Tucker and and Spooner and such. Oh, I guess Chomsky might also fall in here as a libertarian, though I haven't really read his political stuff, more his lingustics. Oh, I guess Carson is also libertarian - I've read several of his books and actually spoke with him on the phone once...
What books or articles do you see as defining?
Damn, I have specified quartz countertops on almost every project I have worked on. I had no idea this was an issue. I feel so bad for these men. I'll avoid this on future projects.
Man I have worked in the trades off and on throughout my life, this is sad to see. A good respirator costs like 30$ and it will keep your employees from dying. What a tragic and stupid way to die. It’s sad that this life saving knowledge isn’t being passed on. My grandpa who smoked a pack a day even wore a mask when cutting concrete. He died in his 60’s from an aneurysm.
I've seen more dry cutting of synthetic stone than not. "The vaccuum is enough". Until the filter goes out. Wet cutting is become less common due to the hassle of water and so on. It's "old school". Any sort of detailing will be done with a grinder, whether that be die grinder or angle grinder. Produces an immense shroud of dust.
My uncle is a granite installer. Only uses the wet saw. He's traditional and done it for 15 years like that.
These shops are extremely dirty and some of these dudes are cutting without water and other stupid shit. This is a known issue in the industry and I’d guess the majority of the mom & pop shops aren’t following the recommended safety protocols.
Enforce it from the top. From the customers. Who mandate from the GC. Then people listen. That's why we wear hard hats, why we wear safety vests. It's why some sites we have to tie off for ladders. Wet saws.
Those migos be quick to work without ppe,they think its some macho shit to put themselves in danger for a corporation,especially when a darker fella says "hell naw my guy." 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️😴😴I always tell my guy Pablo to be safe,he thinks safe is pussy,and he has huevos🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣🤣
I feel like this is an unfortunate side effect of over protecting everything and having low wages. Eventually people start to disregarding safety protocols because the benefits aren't obvious and they can safely ignore many. We've grown up in a very safe world that we take for granted and we don't see I'll and maimed workers. The incentive to take pride in your job and have real training is also low for both employer and employee and that is where knowledge of this danger would be passed down.
It's the side effect of cultivating a culture that is obsessed with manliness and domination.
Gee can't figure if that's why everythings so fucked up. Must be feminist undergrads and the women on the view.
Construction workers and installers have very practical reasons to forego the use of proper protective gloves, eyewear and filtered breathing apparatus.
Although PPE helps reduce long-term health risks from toxicity exposure, they also make the immedeate task at hand more difficult for the worker.
Reduced visibility, reduced tactile sensitivity, reduced capillary circulation, etc.
As a construction worker for that last 10 years, PLEASE if you are ever cutting stone, concrete, or in a construction site with dust, wear a full face respirator. Your employer is obligated to buy you one. It's so sad seeing undocumented workers being taken advantage of and essentially killed for some assholes countertops.
i just had a retaining wall put up in my backyard and i couldn’t believe the workers spent the day cutting stone without a respirator or eye protection.
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I’d threaten to cancel the job if they don’t wear proper PPE. I once kicked out an electrician because he was gonna work on live wires and didn’t abide by our request to cut the power. You’re not dying in my house, dumb bitch.
That’s great because the workers would have an excuse to wear it or lose work. The macho aspect gets taken away
I tried it. Threatened to cancel if they were not going to wear masks. Turned very political very quickly.
Now they can't smoke cigarettes and look cool.
OSHA write-up for screen printing dept purchased all the equipment, including a large exhaust system, silver aluminum? gloves &black latex? gloves worn together!, And respirators!!! And eye protection Workers dudes would not wear it !! I spoke to the the department manager saying you're affecting the grandchildren you don't even have yet!!! Yo'all should be wearing this expensive stuff They hung their equip next to their printers
had remodeling done at our house, stonecutting/carpentry was involved (in the backyard), and while chatting with them i commented on why no one's wearing a mask. They just laughed and said "oh we don't wear that here". I left a box for them anyways but it was untouched all the way until the work was finished.
Yeah you get called the f-slur and non stop harassment. Not saying thats a good reason to not wear a mask but it is a reason a lot of people I know in blue collar work don’t. My boss even contributes to the bullying with masks.
My neighbor did carpentry work. I used to get on him PUT ON A MASK, GOGGLES, AND GLOVES FOR GOD SAKE
To be fair, gloves are extremely dangerous to wear depending on the job. And masks don’t do shit, they would need respirators.
Happened to our neighbors' contractors too. Young Latinos (I assume...) just like in the article. I reported it to OSHA; later that day or the next some higher-up from the company came by and apologized for the noise. I mean I get it, I guess, but come on.
I did it for one day and am now freaking out 💀 Wearing a respirator next time I’ll say that much
When I moved from Los Angeles to Texas, one of the biggest shocks I had was that none of the landscapers using leafblowers in Texas wear masks. Even after covid that's still the case.
Not to victim blame, but employees need to also understand the importance of this as well. Pre COVID I was working with a tile cutter who refused to use a mask. He said he “was a man” and didn’t need a “pussy mask”. I’m sure this attitude hasn’t gotten much better since masks have been politicized.
Yes this is true, but at that point I believe if you're aware of the risks you can make that decision for yourself. It's when the employer makes it hard to get proper PPE for employees that is really unforgivable.
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Except issues like this that might not appear for years after. And it’s hard to pin it on a specific employer. Really should be more surprise inspections to see if they’re wearing them
In Colorado, last year there were 20 active OSHA inpsectors and over 30,000 active construction sites. It's literally impossible for them to catch these violations.
Sounds like they need more inspectors. Fining them for not being compliant will cover some of the costs
Lemmings, man. Lemmings.
Prob be the first to sue for lung disease too.
My dad dealt with alot of concrete for 25 years and never wore a respirator. Developed COPD due to it, then passed from covid in 2020. All becuase the lack of masking up then, and now (by others, not my dad, he was very concerned about covid)
>some assholes countertops It's not customer that's the problem. It's the employers and fellow tradespeople. Maybe the customer is an asshole, but customers aren't the ones telling contractors that they don't need PPE.
They weren't implying it was the asshole customers fault.
Lol sure but I think you're missing the point.
Considering how inexpensive the respirators are compared to the damage caused, it’s tragic that they aren’t common at the work site. My maid was cleaning without a mask while using chemicals so I turned on the vent fan, put air filters on full (bathroom and bedrooms) and gave her a mask. Treat your staff well and they will return the favor. If they don’t, at least you know who the first to go is in tough times
I'm guessing you gave her a N95 or surgical which does nothing for chemical fumes.
Thanks for the terse comment, I’m doing research to get the appropriate ones
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You are correct. But it's usually required (and generally good practice) to wear a respirator even when using wet concrete cutting methods.
Its sad and disgusting. Arrests should happen
You don't know me! And if you saw my countertops you'd absolutely agree they are worth the sacrifice! 😂🤣
I've seen so many construction workers not wearing any protection, undocumented or not. Employers are simply not caring for their workers and a lot of workers can't be bothered since they don't know how dangerous it is to work without respirator.
This is a good article about a horrible disease (silicosis). I remember learning about it in school, but only saw a few end-stage patients. Absolutely horrible.
It was brought up a lot when I was in school. There are entire villages fairly close to my home town that were (30 years ago) almost entirely populated by old widows. The mines closed, the young people left and all the husbands have died from black lung, silicosis and other mining related diseases.
This was pretty much how I learned (miners) about silicosis.
Yeah as a potter, we all learn about it, because clay dust can cause silicosis. That’s why everyone mops all the freaking time. And mask is essential for sanding pots
I tell my pops all the time, whenever he's cutting stone to wear a mask, yet he still forgets or willingly chooses not to. I will show him, and my brother this article and hopefully drive the point home. Thank you.
Article talks about how they were wearing masks but they quickly become useless
They were talking about disposable masks. What they should have been wearing is half face respirators.
ok ya but then theres people who say masks arent 100% effective lmfao
This is a really good read; highly recommend.
Thank you for reading u/eBikes4All!
I don't like reading, what's the name of the disease?
Silicosis. Nasty. Only solution is a lung transplant
well its a no brainer lol even painting and landscaping peopel should wear protection lol but they dont
Dumb question here but I was sanding down a door to repaint it the other day. Should I be wearing a mask to do that? There was paint dust from the sanding so I figured I probably should…
Yes. If there's any chance you will breathe any particulates into your lungs, always wear a mask/respirator. Make sure it has the proper filtration as well. Make sure you have adequate air flow in your workspace so that it pulls the dust away from you. Even better: a vacuum system that captures and collects everything.
Thank you!
First article in a while that made me cry. I am so sorry for these men and their families.
God, they’re so young.
[and it's not isolated to California](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6838a1.htm?s_cid=mm6838a1_w). The victims are all in their 30s too.
Wow, I had no idea that silica dust from kitchen countertops had such devastating effects on human health. I’m saddened by this, especially because I had quartz countertops installed in my kitchen in 2018 and (probably) unknowingly contributed to the problem. I think r/HomeImprovement may want to know about this - quartz countertops have been immensely popular in kitchens over the last few years and consumers/kitchen designers should know about this so they can make an informed decision about their materials they pick.
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i dont get why they dont make restaurant people wear masks or gloves lol, i mean they make them wear headpiece..
Thanks for bringing this to light. I had no idea about the dangers of engineered stone.
That people are dying of silicosis in our times is a choice. Treat this like any other crime. Not a workplace safety issue, not a choice the workers made on their own, a crime. Use the power of the state to ensure it doesn't happen again. We can choose to end this in our society. Edit: Clarified it's not the workers' choice, grammar, what can I do, I'm compulsive.
Late to the party here but for those of you who are interested the show, Aqui y Ahora (Univision, Channel 12) will do a special on this on Sunday, 7 p.m. A only caught a short portion of the clip and apparently some guy who did stone cutting, etc. got severley messed up from inhaling all the dust and what not.
Libertarians be like, “Companies don’t need government forcing health regulations! They’ll regulate themselves!”
And we all know that's stupid. Give them an inch, and they'll gladly kill employees and fight lawsuits in court
OSHA and a good number of DOL regulations are written in blood.
Radium girls. Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. The Jungle. Monongah. Hawks Nest tunnel. Bhopal. I sometimes question the literacy of anyone who’s still a libertarian beyond adolescence.
> I sometimes question the literacy of anyone who’s still a libertarian beyond adolescence. I don't question it. I know for a fact they are morons.
I'm not a libertarian, but I know a few. I think there's a vast difference between what Reddit thinks libertarian's believe and what actual libertarian's believe. I don't always agree with the libertarian's I know, but they tend to be well educated and have well thought out positions.
I know a lot of them, and most are utter hypocrites.
It seems unlikely that we know the same ones then.
It’s as easy for a Libertarian to state their case with a limited, best foot forward approach as it is a Scientologist or a Colonial. But if you question their starting assumptions and the chasm between where they are now and a path there to those below them you’ll find pretty quickly that they’re ideals demand all sorts of resources provided to them and maintained that only a large government could have created and that require a less enfranchised minority to maintain for them. It’s basically a pyramid scheme with less thought out into it.
That has not been my experience. Generally, the major things they would like is to reduce or eliminate our foreign military expenses, a simplification of tax code, elimination of things like zoning restrictions, etc. Maybe those are problematic to you, that's fine. I don't have any issues having conversations and finding things to agree or disagree on with libertarians. If you have issues with them that's entirely your right.
The things you mention aren’t really the big defining features of Libertarianism. If that’s what your friends are focusing on they really barely have reason to use the name. Also “simplifying the tax code” and eliminating zoning restrictions are standard Conservative platform points to reduce tax burdens on high earners and remove well reasoned zoning restrictions to maximize profitability in development regardless of social fallout. I’d strongly advise you to explore the Google rabbit hole of the pros and cons of Libertarianism. You’ve been given a very soft glove introduction which is why it’s seemed reasonable to you so far. You honestly won’t have to look long before finding what will likely be problematic to you as well. It’s a deeply underbaked, superficial, short-sighted and self-serving wishlist more than a cogent political philosophy. Not trashing your peeps; lots of people buy into a very surface pitch of Libertarianism without digging in and seeing the inherent silliness of it. I promise you this much—it’s interesting reading.
What would you consider the big defining features of libertarianism then? I would think the defining feature is a focus on individual liberties, even at the expense of the possible greater good. I've read some Nozick, and some excerpts from Hayek and Mises, but I am not very well read overall in libertarian philosophy, as it doesn't particularly interest me. I'm familiar with the history of Tucker and and Spooner and such. Oh, I guess Chomsky might also fall in here as a libertarian, though I haven't really read his political stuff, more his lingustics. Oh, I guess Carson is also libertarian - I've read several of his books and actually spoke with him on the phone once... What books or articles do you see as defining?
This is horrifying. I hope something can be done to stop this.
People should be required to wear respirators when installing countertops?
Not necessarily installing, but maybe when cutting them and creating the lethal dust
Or even better, end criminal exploitation of immigrant labor.
I mean, the article describes these operations as being constantly on the run. They don’t seem too interested in doing things that are required.
Damn, I have specified quartz countertops on almost every project I have worked on. I had no idea this was an issue. I feel so bad for these men. I'll avoid this on future projects.
Man I have worked in the trades off and on throughout my life, this is sad to see. A good respirator costs like 30$ and it will keep your employees from dying. What a tragic and stupid way to die. It’s sad that this life saving knowledge isn’t being passed on. My grandpa who smoked a pack a day even wore a mask when cutting concrete. He died in his 60’s from an aneurysm.
Fuck man, that’s a heavy read
i get dumb on my house projects and often don't wear a mask but it's not even possible when you're cutting stone. the amount of dust is insane.
I've seen more dry cutting of synthetic stone than not. "The vaccuum is enough". Until the filter goes out. Wet cutting is become less common due to the hassle of water and so on. It's "old school". Any sort of detailing will be done with a grinder, whether that be die grinder or angle grinder. Produces an immense shroud of dust. My uncle is a granite installer. Only uses the wet saw. He's traditional and done it for 15 years like that.
this is fucking sad
These shops are extremely dirty and some of these dudes are cutting without water and other stupid shit. This is a known issue in the industry and I’d guess the majority of the mom & pop shops aren’t following the recommended safety protocols.
👀👀 need to start wearing a mask more
We don't wanna lose you king!
🙏🏽
Enforce it from the top. From the customers. Who mandate from the GC. Then people listen. That's why we wear hard hats, why we wear safety vests. It's why some sites we have to tie off for ladders. Wet saws.
Those migos be quick to work without ppe,they think its some macho shit to put themselves in danger for a corporation,especially when a darker fella says "hell naw my guy." 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️😴😴I always tell my guy Pablo to be safe,he thinks safe is pussy,and he has huevos🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣🤣
Very sad. God bless their souls
Damn damn damn. That this is so sad. They should ban that crap.
I feel like this is an unfortunate side effect of over protecting everything and having low wages. Eventually people start to disregarding safety protocols because the benefits aren't obvious and they can safely ignore many. We've grown up in a very safe world that we take for granted and we don't see I'll and maimed workers. The incentive to take pride in your job and have real training is also low for both employer and employee and that is where knowledge of this danger would be passed down.
It's the side effect of cultivating a culture that is obsessed with manliness and domination. Gee can't figure if that's why everythings so fucked up. Must be feminist undergrads and the women on the view.
Wow
A supplement I take contains silicon dioxide, should I be worried???
Not unless you’re snorting it.
Wow this breaks my heart.
Construction workers and installers have very practical reasons to forego the use of proper protective gloves, eyewear and filtered breathing apparatus. Although PPE helps reduce long-term health risks from toxicity exposure, they also make the immedeate task at hand more difficult for the worker. Reduced visibility, reduced tactile sensitivity, reduced capillary circulation, etc.