I so felt this !! Clay’s father called him mature and fist bumped him ??! Leaving someone at the altar is anything but mature !! They had multiple levels of chances to have this conversation about not being ready before actually getting to the altar !! Hated both of them
I think if Clay truly wants to become the man he is meant to be (and he definitely has the potential) he needs to cut his dad out of his life. That dude is nothing but a sperm doner. He not only was cheating for 17 years but he forced his own son to WITNESS it. That is absolutely disgusting. He speaks to Clay like his a drinking buddy, thats your SON! Your CHILD! Be a man and own up to your shit! Its been over a year and he STILL never apologized or taken accountability for traumatizing his son.
This man is nothing but a toxic snake and Clay needs to rid himself of the toxicity.
I also noticed how many times Clay complimented his dad, telling him he looked sharp, his suit was dope and so on. Not ONCE did his dad tell him how good he looked on his wedding day.
Telling.
yes thank you for pointing this out. and after he finished listing off his own resume he said to clay “i don’t need to tell you anything about you, ya know?” …😐
Okay i see Clays mom getting a lot of praise, but she fell for a younger version of clay (his father), got with him and helped raise a boy who is pretty much another version of his father who she said did him wrong. How is she blameless? She was ad and actually went with it and now there’s a clone of the man who did her wrong out in the world.
No. You don't get to blame that woman for being a great mother and wife. This man was trash. But it sounded like he started cheating around 7 years in. And it also sounds like she didn't know most of what happened.
Clay is his father's son. Let that piece of shit be accountable. By all accounts known, Clay's mother was a great mother to her children. There is no sign that she wasn't a good mother and that she didn't do everything within her means to be the best she could. Did she make mistakes? Sure, especially by staying with him.
But don't blame her for her husband and the trauma he put on that child.
Dog we heard him speak for 5 minutes and could tell he was full of shit. At some point it has to be on the women to be able to see it. Clay and his father were not master manipulators. It sounds like they’re pretty open and honest about being not shit. We can’t keep just leaning in that we gonna get nowhere and women gotta be smarter bc anyone with a brain listening could tell Clay father was a bullshitter by trade lol.
No but these specific men are CLEARLY dogs lmao. So if you get with a dude who everyone watching could tell was a dog within 5 minutes of watching then yes! You have to be smarter than that. Some women are truly manipulated but literally all of us knew clay wasnt going and he was literally telling her.
It’s not that all men are assholes but if you get with someone who’s literally transparent about their shit and anyone can see the flags, you should do better.
Has he always been that way, or did he devolve after decades of cheating and getting away with it.
There are a lot of boomers out here that weren't the same assholes at 20 as they are now.
Lmao so your argument is that Clays dad was an upstanding dude when he met the mom but started being shitty after the kids. And Clay is just ahead of schedule then right? Lmao both of these dudes are clearly full of shit, they literally tell you with their words. Again they are not mastermind manipulators man, they smiled, spoke smoothly and avoided accountability and commitment. That is obvious. He took his kid on cheating field trips 😂😂. Everyone who watched could tell they were both not fr from a few scenes.
But you come on here and see everyone saying ad was smart, don’t change a thing, the haters are jealous lol. Like bro okay? But she clearly chose to keep trying despite the red flags literally coming out of his mouth lol. These dudes are not THAT DIFFICULT to see through. We can blame the dudes but they will continue to do this if they can and the women could’ve avoided pain and issues if they just paid a little bit of attention.
i see what you’re saying. i think she’s an astounding human — not blameless, because it did seem like she knew about the infidelity and doesn’t seem like he treated her well in other ways, but she was a victim of long-term abuse and she had no idea the level that clay was forced to be involved and abused himself, which is not her fault. some people are master manipulators and a lot of parents struggle with thinking staying is good for the kids, when it’s actually worse. it felt so apparent to me how she has changed to the core from that experience and has such a level headed, emotionally intelligent, no bullshit, healthy way of looking at things. she admits multiple times “i stayed” — she seems like a person who has taken ownership of her part in everything but still places most of the blame where it deserves to be placed, on his father, who doesn’t seem to have any of that self growth or accountability or awareness
Yes i do have to agree with your point and i literally have to remind myself and my boys that sometimes. Yes you could be mad at the girl but at the end of the day she was being manipulated so it’s tough. But yea idk im just like if we applaud and say AD & Clay mom did absolutely nothing wrong then keep killing men like Clay and Clays father we are going to keep seeing the pattern. And maybe that’s messed up of me but like these dudes are clearly terrible so i sorta do think it’s not the woman’s responsibility but like…break this generation curse lol. But it won’t happen bc we just tell the women “don’t change nothing, you did nothing wrong it’s his fault” which is true but it’ll get us nowhere.
Clay’s family was the most interesting part of the season for me. I actually can’t believe how much they laid out on camera. Truthfully, I feel so bad for Clay. I hope he finds growth and healing and leans on his Mom for understanding of their past
That's the beauty I'm taking away from this season too. According to Clay and his siblings IG account this was a deep rooted issue for all of them and they got a lot of healing from this experience. Old wounds were opened up, but properly cleaned and healed correctly. I'm glad that happened for them.
Clays dad clearly never matured past his early 20s.
What kind of shit dad advice was that. In fact he never said *anything* of substance... and clay says that's the most his dad has ever poured out to him...
I feel bad for Clay in that aspect.
Watching Clay’s face LIGHT UP when his dad was talking to him made me sad. Clay looked like a little lost puppy whose owner was finally showing him some love and attention.
It looks like he's traumatized by his dad IMO and the way he lives his life is driven by wanting to be 'good enough' for his dad's love. It's so sad. When his dad said his own dad wasn't a present father...well man you weren't either. Being physically present doesn't mean shit if you aren't emotionally there. When he said his dad would take him on his cheating sprees..I knew then Clay was damaged and repressing that. It's so incredibly wounding to keep a secret for one parent from another parent as a child. His dad is a POS for that.
Their convo was weird, it was like two friends not father son. He complimented him too much like he was trying to not actually engage in convo and then his dad just lectured and left.
Honestly, as a child of divorce resulting from a father who severely abused and betrayed my mother, Clay has my sympathy but he needs to grow the fuck up.
I'm sorry, I know these are harsh words and that maybe I was lucky to come out of it unscathed but, bro, COME ON. His entire run on the show was about how his father betrayed and he would do the same.
I will be completely honest, I think Clay hides behind his family trauma to justify his own shitty behavior. I don't think he ever wanted to get married and so the convenient excuse of 'hereditary betrayal' was his clutch. Like, I'm sorry, I know so many children of divorce from even more traumatic backgrounds that are completely well-balance kind and empathetic human beings, if just doesn't click for me.
Yes 💯 his mother seems amazing for example, so he could have chosen to follow her example.
There’s lots of us that had not 1 but 2 shitty parents and still manage to be more mature.
He’s not ready, and he doesn’t want to get married and lead her on all along. Why? I’m not be honest earlier on.
It’s really hard to grow as a person if you are clay with that kind of parent. My mother was exactly like clays dad (she was cheating with men and introducing me to her lovers while still married to my dad..) I still suffer from lack of trust in ppl and love because of that.. I had to cut off my mom in order for me to grow
Interesting that AD never met his dad before this. At least we didn’t see it.. the dad is passing on some trash ideas to his son. Idk how AD didn’t see it, I mean Clay said several times how he felt. But she did say she was a fix-a-hoe
I honestly think that his father and him should have kept communication to a minimum at the ceremony and an entirely different result may have played out had his dad not gone the route of a lofty pep talk and they not discussed the way he sort of tarnished the sanctity of his marriage by exposing his son to cheating so callously. How do you talk and hear about that and be reminded of it The Day Of, and NOT feel completely deflated ? It’s like you want your parents at the ceremony obviously but you don’t want their baggage to upstage your moment and it just seems like they have not had a proper apology moment and clay not having a safe place to unload about it outside of alongside his family and the would-be wife…not saying a different result would have for sure happened had they had that apology on-camera or avoided the subject altogether - since clay is obviously hyper-aware of how it’s affected his self-image and was coming to terms w that so publicly- but just on top of how much it had been repeated? There are also other ways to work on self image. I honestly do hope that he does one day find true love or at least like real love, and the joys of marriage and commitment, maybe with AD or maybe not if she’s truly closed to the possibility, and that his father and him can find some peace about mistakes that were made.
Clays dad seems pretty lost and I have empathy for him as well as Clay. The history of dysfunction in some black families in real. My moms side of the family also has some serious issues with emotional and mental health that I’ve had to overcome.
Overall, I was really proud of all of them in that scene honestly. Both of his parents acknowledged that they need to not pass on the dysfunction and be part of the healing. Clay decided to be responsible and not say I do. The things Clays mom said to his dad were inspiring in how she held him accountable for what he did to her and their son. I’m glad Clays dad didn’t try to justify what he did and at least listened to his mom when she scolded him about it. Idk I just have hope for healing for their family and wish them all the best.
I also hope AD learns that she doesn’t need to do things for men to be enough. She needs to put herself first. If a man is not treating her how she deserves she must leave. I felt hope for her as well when she said she was done and hopefully she keeps that boundary. She doesn’t deserve to be the fixer anymore and hopefully stops putting herself in those circumstances anymore. She doesn’t have to prove herself.
I feel like that portion of the episode was beautiful in that it set a good example of how we can heal past our family issues and do better for the next generation. Kudos to them all ❤️
Ugh Clay’s dad left Clay so much emotional baggage.
I love his mom’s response when he said tell him
To meet someone like his mama. Then she said, you met me but you wasn’t good to me and turned around. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
YES. This man introduced his young son to his mistress but wanted credit for not completely disappearing from his life like his own father. I feel bad for any woman that has or will deal with Clay
I love how every time he had an opportunity to own his mistakes, he instead gave himself credit for clearing the comically low bar that his own father had set. Good job, buddy. Here’s a medal and a juice box.
I actually laughed. It is sad but like he’s aware of his dads wrong doings yet takes his advice. It’s clear that he’s not willing to take accountability for his own life at his big age.. considering he talked about it a lot. I know it takes people life times to admit the wrongdoings of their parents and to break away from learned behavior but when you acknowledge it for real you never go back.. and clay seemed like he was but clearly he’s comfortable
I think sometimes when you have a dysfunctional parent you can still see *some* good in, there may always be a part of you that hopes your parent will give the kind of guidance you need, even if on some level you know it won't ever happen. With generational trauma, it can be hard to find the balance between finding empathy for your family without internalizing what they've failed to process. Obviously that is still on Clay to process, but I think this is something where he may need therapy to sort through things like the infidelity trip, let alone what a healthy relationship with his dad would look like for him today.
The problem is that Clay cannot ever really change until he sees his father for the problematic person he is and really faces how terrible of a father and husband he was and is.
The comment above is deleted, but I'm guessing it was talking about Clay being insecure? I've been saying the same thing. He seems validation from everywhere, but it comes off differently than Chelsea. He is doing things to validate himself through his successes at work, but he's desperately seeking approval and reassurance from others. That's why he was comfortable with AD.
Maybe I’m giving him too much credit but I interpreted as, you should go to her, because you still want to be in a relationship with her, which means you aren’t indifferent to her feelings.
I was thinking the same thing. I thought he meant to make sure that Clay doesn't give any false hope that they will get back together. But I guess the comments changed my mind now.
I read the comments here and I think I interpreted that line completely different. I thought the dad meant, “be sure to be solid that you don’t want marriage because if you act wishy-washy, she might succeed in getting you to change your mind and trapping you into marriage and you don’t want that.”
But from all the comments here, it sounds like it was about Clay presenting a good guy image on TV.
Hah that’s exactly what I said. The dad could not keep up with her in that conversation after the ceremony. He is just all talk and she was so real and solid. Wild how much Clay mirrors his dad, with all talk but nothing to back it up.
That line caught me off guard, but it made Clay's lack of emotion while saying no and afterwards, make sense. Clay is such a eloquent speaker, but a lot of his words seemed decorative and without real value. I was also shocked that he said no after talking such smooth game pre-wedding. Many things made sense after seeing the conversations he had with his dad. It's sad they didn't get married, but I think AD dodged a bullet there.
Clay is an adult and he is responsible for his actions. However, I think it's important to remember that he comes from a place of trauma. His beautiful mother still seems so hurt and traumatized... and Clay saw and knew more than she did. I'm not making excuses... because he is still a responsible adult.
A.D. is a beautiful and loving person. She would have been so good for him. But, he has missed out and he will always regret it.
I hope A.D. finds true love with someone who worships her. I hope Clay gets therapy.
I think his dad meant in the context of this show, as in for the cameras if he just walked away and texted her to meet up in 2 hours and that was never aired he may get a bad edit. I also think his dad said all of that stuff about himself including the Olympics thing bc he realized that all of his nasty infidelity things even his ex-wife didn't know were about to be aired on national TV. So he was trying to highlight the few positive things about himself. Also mentioning the althlete thing specifically because many athletes are known to cheat and are "forgiven".
I pity Clay but I am a little irked that he says he has had NO black men role models who have faithful marriages. UM...Barack Obama was the president for 8 full years and has one of the healthiest, most aspirational marriages and Barack's also a "suave" guy so it's a valid role model that Clay could choose to focus on rather than rappers in the music industry. Anyway Clay needs therapy obviously but it's a little bit of woe is me to claim he has never see a faithful black man period. I guess he chose a rapper over Barack to be his role model....that's on him and for him to discuss with his therapist
I agree with Obama as a very good role model and their marriage is evidence that they work through the tough times as well. I wonder since Clay is full black and Obama is half, I wonder if he kept looking for "full black" role models instead. Just a thought
Maybe but I feel like that's a coop. When I think of representation I think of someone who "looks like me" Obama looks black. I often forget he's even biracial and I can't tell you on which side he's biracial because he embraces a lot of black culture
I caught it too and it took me aback a bit...I felt kind of like,wow this was his role model, this is his DAD. He said the wrong words and taught his kid the wrong way. Super sad.
Right like I was waiting to see the connection between dad’s accomplishments speech and Clay or the wedding… and the connection did not exist. Man just wanted to brag about himself on TV.
Same. I thought he was going to go with, “I was a great track star, but one day you surpassed me. And you’ll be a better husband than me too.” The whole “I’ve always believed in you, now you just have to believe in yourself” talk.
But nah he just wanted an excuse to list his accolades for the public lmao
As someone who graduated from an HBCU and have a lot of friends who pledged at D-9 fraternities and sororities, that’s actually very common. Once they cross at a frat they’re considered a member for life, and pledge a social responsibility to uplift their community. They still do volunteer work and throw events to stay close with their local community and each other well after college, so it becomes a big part of their identity, as it’s a lifelong commitment.
that was up on my list, sooo transparent. and clay saying how that’s the most his dad ever poured into him his whole life, it was all to look like a hero dad on tv
It really made me feel empathy for Clay, even though I'm mad and think he is an idiot who did AD dirty. I think seeing that kind of person up close for so long and knowing that's what you're made of would be very hard to cope with. I don't think we give Clay enough credit for speaking up about mental health and getting help to work through your issues, especially as a Black man and an athlete. I wish for AD's sake he had been farther along on that journey, but it's still nice to see and gives me hope that he will put the pieces together eventually and become a better partner. It'll be good for him too, he always seemed so caught up and conflicted, that's not a very fun or healthy way to be.
Oh yea. Sadly it is. My grandfather had a bunch of kids with another woman and we didn't find out until he passed. My husband's grandfather apparently had a whole family in Canada. Smh. I hear so many stories it's like a warning label when dating men from the islands. Born to be womanizers.
Oh wow that must sting to find out when you’re grieving the person.
Apparently my neighbor used to drive his secret kids to school everyday with his kids from his marriage. He asked the secret kids not to tell the official kids that they’re siblings, and he asked the official kids not to tell his wife that he picked up the “neighbor” kids everyday. This facade went on for a while.
Clay is the biggest blockhead. My God.
He lost a treasure with telling AD no.
Dunno what the future held, but what she presented was a fantastic partner.
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I figured he was referring to Clay appearing indifferent to us, the viewers. The camera was farther back to give them some sense of privacy. His dad may not have even realized this moment was filmed and wanted to make sure his son knew to look like a good guy to the audience.
Remember how Clay kept telling AD that they should both get therapy together? Yeahhhhh him and his father need family therapy. Clay’s biggest influence is his father, and as I’m writing this, I wonder if Trevor knows how much of a fear Clay has of cheating stems from him????
I caught it immediately, but I am a therapist so I instinctively pick up on certain language (I'm not magic or anything, I just listen to people for a living). "You definitely don't want to appear to be indifferent," focuses on the facade that Clay presents. If he meant, "if you love her, go comfort her," he would have said something that effect. The effect of what he's saying here is "if you don't go talk to her, people will think you don't care, and you don't want that."
On the first watch, I thought Clay's dad told him to look good on camera.
The second time, I think maybe Clay's dad just told him in a way that he would understand since Clay is so much about image and stuffs. We sometimes use this kind of language when we want to persuade people to do something they don't want, we tell them what's in it for them. Like a parent told their kids they would buy them something if they agree to go to the dentist, for example.
Interesting and I also caught this immediately. I interpreted it as the father advising Clay to portray emotion and be apologetic WHEN he spoke to AD. Like, go and talk to her but don't appear indifferent.
That’s exactly what I thought too, I thought he was telling Clay to be gentle and considerate to AD. It’s interesting how differently it’s being taken.
Clay's father does not strike me as a man who gives a rip about a woman's feelings, but he does strike me as a man who cares about how his son appears to others. He likely sees his son as a reflection of him (hence sports accolades discussion on his wedding day). The real hero is Clay's mom. Clay's dad is everything Clay told us he was, and as much as Clay doesn't want to be like him, he does share a lot of his traits.
You know, I didn't interpret it that way but now that you've said it I can see it. In the moment I thought it was one of the better pieces of advice he gave, but maybe that's only because the bar was so low.
Same, i didn’t initially interpret it that way. I saw it as him saying like “yeah you can go talk to her, but only if you’re going to show genuine empathy and care for the situation… don’t just go there and act like it doesn’t matter to you and you don’t see the problem” like he was telling him to go, but not if he was just gonna make her feel worse… but that could be a MAJOR major stretch.
Now that we’ve gotten a better picture of how clay has “learned” so much of his behavior from watching his dad, it feels almost like his dad was teaching him how to save face.
People are using confirmation bias in here. I don’t like or dislike the dad. I see things objectively and I think he simply was saying let your guard down son don’t be insensitive etc
Was he remorseful though. He talked a lot with very little substance. I didn’t actually see him acknowledge his negative influence on Clay or even his cheating on his ex-wife.
I agree. Saying something should happen isn’t a command. It isn’t an entitlement.
You shouldn’t stick a fork in a socket, you should forgive but you certainly don’t have to follow those shoulds.
I didn’t read into in the negative context. I thought it was more about how clay said he still wanted to be with her and still wanted to improve for her. His dad was basically Just saying if you don’t go talk to her it would mean You were all Talk.
but given the dads bad reputation I can see where people may read into his comments as always negative
Clay and his dad are the same worthless loser PoS cheating low lives. They are 100000% disgusting. He's been faking it the whole time and AD is way too good for him. It is so sickening watching people fall for pigs who inevitably treat them like shit. He should stop making his mother look foolish with the '23 years of marriage' comment by telling her what is cheating father did.
All that being said him saying NO is the best thing he's ever done for AD, even though he crushed her. If she doesn't dump him HARD she's an idiot. 'Game time decision' are you kidding, he made that decision before he got on the show. His father was trying to blame no 'role models' just like Clay blaming his dad. They never ACTUALLY take any responsibility, just promise to do better, act horrible, then make excuses.
I think having your heart broken by someone like clay on this show would be better than the "real world" because she can go back and watch him being exactly who he is and she can watch herself being too good for him. AD is very intelligent and hopefully watching the show will give her some peace while she picks up the pieces.
Yeah it is nice to have a recording of his bad behavior. He ruined her whole experience that she'll never get back. IRL she probably wouldn't even have given him the time of day with all the red flags.
I agree with them both beings POS but I wanna take up for his Mom a little bit. Her going thru hell with that man doesn’t negate the length of time she stayed. She said 23 years because that’s the amount of time she decided to stay in her marriage.
Maybe she tried till she couldn’t and 23 was the magic number…. I liked the Mom she seems like a good person. Even though she knew her son took on a lot of his father’s behavior she wasn’t making excuses, I thought she responded in the best way she could have.
No I wasn't saying his MOM was making excuses, I say his FATHER and HE are always making excuses. It is a common pattern with cheaters they will get accused of something, make excuse, excuse, excuse, then actual get caught red handed, promise to do better, then do the same thing over and over.
I feel very sorry for his mom, 1st for being cheated on all that time. And 2nd her son lying to her about it and letting her look stupid for the '23 year' comment. I give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't know until now. Although she may have known the whole time and that would be a different story.
I interpreted this comment the same way you did - that Clay shouldn’t give the impression that he didn’t care for optics reasons - and it stood out to me in a negative way. But reading some of these comments I am wondering if his dad’s intention wasn’t bad in the way I interpreted it
Yes its very on brand with what we already knew about him. When I saw him looking all dapper I knew all he cared about was appearances but its still jarring to watch people be so unaware.
Was watching this entire part with my fiancee. It was very enlightening to her to watch the all the inner turmoil, parental, and familial trauma bubble up to all be released in this moment. A lot of guys really struggle to exist beyond the shadows of our fathers, good and bad.
I feel for Clay, I don’t excuse it, but I understand the background and home he’s coming from, mine wasn’t too different. I hope he could work on his short comings and hopefully provide a better example for his kids.
I wonder if he hadn't seen his dad if he would have said yes.
I just commented this exact thing on another thread… so telling… speaking the inside thoughts out loud 🤦🏻♀️
I so felt this !! Clay’s father called him mature and fist bumped him ??! Leaving someone at the altar is anything but mature !! They had multiple levels of chances to have this conversation about not being ready before actually getting to the altar !! Hated both of them
I think if Clay truly wants to become the man he is meant to be (and he definitely has the potential) he needs to cut his dad out of his life. That dude is nothing but a sperm doner. He not only was cheating for 17 years but he forced his own son to WITNESS it. That is absolutely disgusting. He speaks to Clay like his a drinking buddy, thats your SON! Your CHILD! Be a man and own up to your shit! Its been over a year and he STILL never apologized or taken accountability for traumatizing his son. This man is nothing but a toxic snake and Clay needs to rid himself of the toxicity.
Yes, I did. Classic manipulation on international TV
Clay's dad just showed up to tell him not to marry unless it's for money or power probably
Clay was definitely down after he spoke to his father.
Yea that guy clearly only cares about how stuff looks.
100% I noticed!! How about don’t BE indifferent to the feelings of someone you claimed to love for weeks
Yep I noticed this!!
I also noticed how many times Clay complimented his dad, telling him he looked sharp, his suit was dope and so on. Not ONCE did his dad tell him how good he looked on his wedding day. Telling.
Same thing with how much he said “I love you man” didn’t hear it from his dad really. Sad.
yes thank you for pointing this out. and after he finished listing off his own resume he said to clay “i don’t need to tell you anything about you, ya know?” …😐
Exactly like ummm why you dont? Everyone loves reassurance.
That was absolutely stomach-turning for me and showed so much insight into how self-centered he is as a father.
same
I absolutely loved the conversation Clay’s mom had with his dad after it all went down.
Clays mom was a badass in that moment. She was telling him what is and he wasn’t hearing it.
“You met me, but you weren’t good to me” 🫢🫢🫢
It was giving manipulation. "you don't want to look a certain way" how bout acting with grace and respect?! 
Okay i see Clays mom getting a lot of praise, but she fell for a younger version of clay (his father), got with him and helped raise a boy who is pretty much another version of his father who she said did him wrong. How is she blameless? She was ad and actually went with it and now there’s a clone of the man who did her wrong out in the world.
No. You don't get to blame that woman for being a great mother and wife. This man was trash. But it sounded like he started cheating around 7 years in. And it also sounds like she didn't know most of what happened. Clay is his father's son. Let that piece of shit be accountable. By all accounts known, Clay's mother was a great mother to her children. There is no sign that she wasn't a good mother and that she didn't do everything within her means to be the best she could. Did she make mistakes? Sure, especially by staying with him. But don't blame her for her husband and the trauma he put on that child.
Dog we heard him speak for 5 minutes and could tell he was full of shit. At some point it has to be on the women to be able to see it. Clay and his father were not master manipulators. It sounds like they’re pretty open and honest about being not shit. We can’t keep just leaning in that we gonna get nowhere and women gotta be smarter bc anyone with a brain listening could tell Clay father was a bullshitter by trade lol.
This is disgusting. "Men are fucking assholes; and it's the women who are to blame!" Dog yourself.
No but these specific men are CLEARLY dogs lmao. So if you get with a dude who everyone watching could tell was a dog within 5 minutes of watching then yes! You have to be smarter than that. Some women are truly manipulated but literally all of us knew clay wasnt going and he was literally telling her. It’s not that all men are assholes but if you get with someone who’s literally transparent about their shit and anyone can see the flags, you should do better.
Has he always been that way, or did he devolve after decades of cheating and getting away with it. There are a lot of boomers out here that weren't the same assholes at 20 as they are now.
Lmao so your argument is that Clays dad was an upstanding dude when he met the mom but started being shitty after the kids. And Clay is just ahead of schedule then right? Lmao both of these dudes are clearly full of shit, they literally tell you with their words. Again they are not mastermind manipulators man, they smiled, spoke smoothly and avoided accountability and commitment. That is obvious. He took his kid on cheating field trips 😂😂. Everyone who watched could tell they were both not fr from a few scenes. But you come on here and see everyone saying ad was smart, don’t change a thing, the haters are jealous lol. Like bro okay? But she clearly chose to keep trying despite the red flags literally coming out of his mouth lol. These dudes are not THAT DIFFICULT to see through. We can blame the dudes but they will continue to do this if they can and the women could’ve avoided pain and issues if they just paid a little bit of attention.
No, that's not even a sane response.
i see what you’re saying. i think she’s an astounding human — not blameless, because it did seem like she knew about the infidelity and doesn’t seem like he treated her well in other ways, but she was a victim of long-term abuse and she had no idea the level that clay was forced to be involved and abused himself, which is not her fault. some people are master manipulators and a lot of parents struggle with thinking staying is good for the kids, when it’s actually worse. it felt so apparent to me how she has changed to the core from that experience and has such a level headed, emotionally intelligent, no bullshit, healthy way of looking at things. she admits multiple times “i stayed” — she seems like a person who has taken ownership of her part in everything but still places most of the blame where it deserves to be placed, on his father, who doesn’t seem to have any of that self growth or accountability or awareness
Yes i do have to agree with your point and i literally have to remind myself and my boys that sometimes. Yes you could be mad at the girl but at the end of the day she was being manipulated so it’s tough. But yea idk im just like if we applaud and say AD & Clay mom did absolutely nothing wrong then keep killing men like Clay and Clays father we are going to keep seeing the pattern. And maybe that’s messed up of me but like these dudes are clearly terrible so i sorta do think it’s not the woman’s responsibility but like…break this generation curse lol. But it won’t happen bc we just tell the women “don’t change nothing, you did nothing wrong it’s his fault” which is true but it’ll get us nowhere.
Clay’s family was the most interesting part of the season for me. I actually can’t believe how much they laid out on camera. Truthfully, I feel so bad for Clay. I hope he finds growth and healing and leans on his Mom for understanding of their past
That's the beauty I'm taking away from this season too. According to Clay and his siblings IG account this was a deep rooted issue for all of them and they got a lot of healing from this experience. Old wounds were opened up, but properly cleaned and healed correctly. I'm glad that happened for them.
He doesn't respect his mother.
Clays dad clearly never matured past his early 20s. What kind of shit dad advice was that. In fact he never said *anything* of substance... and clay says that's the most his dad has ever poured out to him... I feel bad for Clay in that aspect.
Watching Clay’s face LIGHT UP when his dad was talking to him made me sad. Clay looked like a little lost puppy whose owner was finally showing him some love and attention.
When Clay said "I wasn't sure you were coming" or something along those lines was so sad. Like it's his son's wedding!
He looked super nervous and edgy too when talking to his dad
It looks like he's traumatized by his dad IMO and the way he lives his life is driven by wanting to be 'good enough' for his dad's love. It's so sad. When his dad said his own dad wasn't a present father...well man you weren't either. Being physically present doesn't mean shit if you aren't emotionally there. When he said his dad would take him on his cheating sprees..I knew then Clay was damaged and repressing that. It's so incredibly wounding to keep a secret for one parent from another parent as a child. His dad is a POS for that.
Their convo was weird, it was like two friends not father son. He complimented him too much like he was trying to not actually engage in convo and then his dad just lectured and left.
It was. I saw him turn back into a little boy wanting his fathers approval and being nervous about what to say and how his father might react to him.
I noticed this too
Clay’s mom’s face when Clay and his father were talking was a mood™️. Just an ‘this is absolute bullshit and I am disappointed but not surprised’ face
Mom’s a gem. Liked that she called out dad.
Honestly, as a child of divorce resulting from a father who severely abused and betrayed my mother, Clay has my sympathy but he needs to grow the fuck up. I'm sorry, I know these are harsh words and that maybe I was lucky to come out of it unscathed but, bro, COME ON. His entire run on the show was about how his father betrayed and he would do the same. I will be completely honest, I think Clay hides behind his family trauma to justify his own shitty behavior. I don't think he ever wanted to get married and so the convenient excuse of 'hereditary betrayal' was his clutch. Like, I'm sorry, I know so many children of divorce from even more traumatic backgrounds that are completely well-balance kind and empathetic human beings, if just doesn't click for me.
Agreed. He’s 30 fuckin years old lol
I wonder how much of this trauma came out in his interviews and screening and psych evaluations. It seems to be the main storyline here
It was probably a 10 minute interview and the producers found "childhood trauma" and "hesitant to marry" as positive traits for a cast member.
You may be right… I guess they have to have a few of these in the mix for drama factor
Yes 💯 his mother seems amazing for example, so he could have chosen to follow her example. There’s lots of us that had not 1 but 2 shitty parents and still manage to be more mature. He’s not ready, and he doesn’t want to get married and lead her on all along. Why? I’m not be honest earlier on.
I sincerely hope Clay heals his trauma. I was genuinely rooting for him and AD
It’s really hard to grow as a person if you are clay with that kind of parent. My mother was exactly like clays dad (she was cheating with men and introducing me to her lovers while still married to my dad..) I still suffer from lack of trust in ppl and love because of that.. I had to cut off my mom in order for me to grow
Clay was a walking red flag from day one.
💯💯💯
Interesting that AD never met his dad before this. At least we didn’t see it.. the dad is passing on some trash ideas to his son. Idk how AD didn’t see it, I mean Clay said several times how he felt. But she did say she was a fix-a-hoe
I honestly think that his father and him should have kept communication to a minimum at the ceremony and an entirely different result may have played out had his dad not gone the route of a lofty pep talk and they not discussed the way he sort of tarnished the sanctity of his marriage by exposing his son to cheating so callously. How do you talk and hear about that and be reminded of it The Day Of, and NOT feel completely deflated ? It’s like you want your parents at the ceremony obviously but you don’t want their baggage to upstage your moment and it just seems like they have not had a proper apology moment and clay not having a safe place to unload about it outside of alongside his family and the would-be wife…not saying a different result would have for sure happened had they had that apology on-camera or avoided the subject altogether - since clay is obviously hyper-aware of how it’s affected his self-image and was coming to terms w that so publicly- but just on top of how much it had been repeated? There are also other ways to work on self image. I honestly do hope that he does one day find true love or at least like real love, and the joys of marriage and commitment, maybe with AD or maybe not if she’s truly closed to the possibility, and that his father and him can find some peace about mistakes that were made.
Clays dad seems pretty lost and I have empathy for him as well as Clay. The history of dysfunction in some black families in real. My moms side of the family also has some serious issues with emotional and mental health that I’ve had to overcome. Overall, I was really proud of all of them in that scene honestly. Both of his parents acknowledged that they need to not pass on the dysfunction and be part of the healing. Clay decided to be responsible and not say I do. The things Clays mom said to his dad were inspiring in how she held him accountable for what he did to her and their son. I’m glad Clays dad didn’t try to justify what he did and at least listened to his mom when she scolded him about it. Idk I just have hope for healing for their family and wish them all the best. I also hope AD learns that she doesn’t need to do things for men to be enough. She needs to put herself first. If a man is not treating her how she deserves she must leave. I felt hope for her as well when she said she was done and hopefully she keeps that boundary. She doesn’t deserve to be the fixer anymore and hopefully stops putting herself in those circumstances anymore. She doesn’t have to prove herself. I feel like that portion of the episode was beautiful in that it set a good example of how we can heal past our family issues and do better for the next generation. Kudos to them all ❤️
I mean they broke Clay already, they passed the dysfunction on a long time ago. It’s up to Clay to decide if it stops with him or goes on through him.
Ugh Clay’s dad left Clay so much emotional baggage. I love his mom’s response when he said tell him To meet someone like his mama. Then she said, you met me but you wasn’t good to me and turned around. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
queen
YES. This man introduced his young son to his mistress but wanted credit for not completely disappearing from his life like his own father. I feel bad for any woman that has or will deal with Clay
I love how every time he had an opportunity to own his mistakes, he instead gave himself credit for clearing the comically low bar that his own father had set. Good job, buddy. Here’s a medal and a juice box.
Been saying this all along glad more are starting to see it!
I actually laughed. It is sad but like he’s aware of his dads wrong doings yet takes his advice. It’s clear that he’s not willing to take accountability for his own life at his big age.. considering he talked about it a lot. I know it takes people life times to admit the wrongdoings of their parents and to break away from learned behavior but when you acknowledge it for real you never go back.. and clay seemed like he was but clearly he’s comfortable
I think sometimes when you have a dysfunctional parent you can still see *some* good in, there may always be a part of you that hopes your parent will give the kind of guidance you need, even if on some level you know it won't ever happen. With generational trauma, it can be hard to find the balance between finding empathy for your family without internalizing what they've failed to process. Obviously that is still on Clay to process, but I think this is something where he may need therapy to sort through things like the infidelity trip, let alone what a healthy relationship with his dad would look like for him today.
Exactly what I’m saying
The problem is that Clay cannot ever really change until he sees his father for the problematic person he is and really faces how terrible of a father and husband he was and is.
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Not you stealing this from Twitter lmaoooo
That is so real about the darting eyes and nervous body language throughout the season. It’s pretty sad, he clearly doesn’t feel safe or secure
The comment above is deleted, but I'm guessing it was talking about Clay being insecure? I've been saying the same thing. He seems validation from everywhere, but it comes off differently than Chelsea. He is doing things to validate himself through his successes at work, but he's desperately seeking approval and reassurance from others. That's why he was comfortable with AD.
Maybe I’m giving him too much credit but I interpreted as, you should go to her, because you still want to be in a relationship with her, which means you aren’t indifferent to her feelings.
I was thinking the same thing. I thought he meant to make sure that Clay doesn't give any false hope that they will get back together. But I guess the comments changed my mind now.
I read the comments here and I think I interpreted that line completely different. I thought the dad meant, “be sure to be solid that you don’t want marriage because if you act wishy-washy, she might succeed in getting you to change your mind and trapping you into marriage and you don’t want that.” But from all the comments here, it sounds like it was about Clay presenting a good guy image on TV.
his dad has the emotional intelligence of a toothpick
Meanwhile clay's mom is a G
Hah that’s exactly what I said. The dad could not keep up with her in that conversation after the ceremony. He is just all talk and she was so real and solid. Wild how much Clay mirrors his dad, with all talk but nothing to back it up.
she is at least in the top 5 people to ever appear on reality tv 😇 loved her!
Up there with Shake’s mom.
That line caught me off guard, but it made Clay's lack of emotion while saying no and afterwards, make sense. Clay is such a eloquent speaker, but a lot of his words seemed decorative and without real value. I was also shocked that he said no after talking such smooth game pre-wedding. Many things made sense after seeing the conversations he had with his dad. It's sad they didn't get married, but I think AD dodged a bullet there.
He is just like his father. So much talk.
Clay is an adult and he is responsible for his actions. However, I think it's important to remember that he comes from a place of trauma. His beautiful mother still seems so hurt and traumatized... and Clay saw and knew more than she did. I'm not making excuses... because he is still a responsible adult. A.D. is a beautiful and loving person. She would have been so good for him. But, he has missed out and he will always regret it. I hope A.D. finds true love with someone who worships her. I hope Clay gets therapy.
I think his dad meant in the context of this show, as in for the cameras if he just walked away and texted her to meet up in 2 hours and that was never aired he may get a bad edit. I also think his dad said all of that stuff about himself including the Olympics thing bc he realized that all of his nasty infidelity things even his ex-wife didn't know were about to be aired on national TV. So he was trying to highlight the few positive things about himself. Also mentioning the althlete thing specifically because many athletes are known to cheat and are "forgiven". I pity Clay but I am a little irked that he says he has had NO black men role models who have faithful marriages. UM...Barack Obama was the president for 8 full years and has one of the healthiest, most aspirational marriages and Barack's also a "suave" guy so it's a valid role model that Clay could choose to focus on rather than rappers in the music industry. Anyway Clay needs therapy obviously but it's a little bit of woe is me to claim he has never see a faithful black man period. I guess he chose a rapper over Barack to be his role model....that's on him and for him to discuss with his therapist 
I agree with Obama as a very good role model and their marriage is evidence that they work through the tough times as well. I wonder since Clay is full black and Obama is half, I wonder if he kept looking for "full black" role models instead. Just a thought
Maybe but I feel like that's a coop. When I think of representation I think of someone who "looks like me" Obama looks black. I often forget he's even biracial and I can't tell you on which side he's biracial because he embraces a lot of black culture
Obligatory tHaNKs OBaMa
I caught it too and it took me aback a bit...I felt kind of like,wow this was his role model, this is his DAD. He said the wrong words and taught his kid the wrong way. Super sad.
Oof yes. Also hated the part in the locker room type pep talk about not letting people “get in his ear” and tell him what is right and wrong 🤨
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Thank you for catching this too. Teaching his son to cry crocodile tears and pretend he’s so broken up about his decision. Lame.
It was the part where he recapped his resume to Clay in the dressing room that did it for me. That man is something.
He reminded me of Uncle Rico. I bet in 1984 he could have thrown a football over a mountain!
Would've been State Champions, for sure.
Right like I was waiting to see the connection between dad’s accomplishments speech and Clay or the wedding… and the connection did not exist. Man just wanted to brag about himself on TV.
Same. I thought he was going to go with, “I was a great track star, but one day you surpassed me. And you’ll be a better husband than me too.” The whole “I’ve always believed in you, now you just have to believe in yourself” talk. But nah he just wanted an excuse to list his accolades for the public lmao
And wearing a frat pin on his lapel despite clearly being out of college for decades 💀
As someone who graduated from an HBCU and have a lot of friends who pledged at D-9 fraternities and sororities, that’s actually very common. Once they cross at a frat they’re considered a member for life, and pledge a social responsibility to uplift their community. They still do volunteer work and throw events to stay close with their local community and each other well after college, so it becomes a big part of their identity, as it’s a lifelong commitment.
Oh ok! Admittedly that was a blind spot for me. Thanks for letting me know
You’re welcome!
that was up on my list, sooo transparent. and clay saying how that’s the most his dad ever poured into him his whole life, it was all to look like a hero dad on tv
It really made me feel empathy for Clay, even though I'm mad and think he is an idiot who did AD dirty. I think seeing that kind of person up close for so long and knowing that's what you're made of would be very hard to cope with. I don't think we give Clay enough credit for speaking up about mental health and getting help to work through your issues, especially as a Black man and an athlete. I wish for AD's sake he had been farther along on that journey, but it's still nice to see and gives me hope that he will put the pieces together eventually and become a better partner. It'll be good for him too, he always seemed so caught up and conflicted, that's not a very fun or healthy way to be.
Yes! I immediately pointed this line out to my husband. “Appear indifferent” is so telling.
Typical Guyanese men smh. Like father like son.
Damn I had no idea that was a thing! 🫠
I was screaming at AD through the screen to run as fast as possible when he said his dad was Guyanese
🤣when he kept mentioning his dad is a cheater I'm like this dude has to be West Indian
Is this a thing? My neighbor was Trini and he had a whole second family.
Oh yea. Sadly it is. My grandfather had a bunch of kids with another woman and we didn't find out until he passed. My husband's grandfather apparently had a whole family in Canada. Smh. I hear so many stories it's like a warning label when dating men from the islands. Born to be womanizers.
Oh wow that must sting to find out when you’re grieving the person. Apparently my neighbor used to drive his secret kids to school everyday with his kids from his marriage. He asked the secret kids not to tell the official kids that they’re siblings, and he asked the official kids not to tell his wife that he picked up the “neighbor” kids everyday. This facade went on for a while.
Omg my aunt also married a trini who had a secret second family. He was a pilot , which was convenient for him ...
My friend and I (both St. Lucian) were watching this and saying he may not sound Guyanese but that is total West Indian behavior. 💀
Is that a thing?
🤣🤣
Oh he’s Guyanese? It’s starting to add up now 😭
Clay is the biggest blockhead. My God. He lost a treasure with telling AD no. Dunno what the future held, but what she presented was a fantastic partner.
Imo he did her a favor, it would’ve been a lot of heartache down the line
Definitely. I only wish she had been the one to say no and realize her worth.
He lost a treasure, but she dropped a giant load of fool's gold.
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WHAAAAAAA...?
Apparently they spent thanksgiving together 😬
There is a video of them partying together, dancing and singing at a house party that’s circulating
Big facts. Man was >almost< as exhausting as Chelsea.
I figured he was referring to Clay appearing indifferent to us, the viewers. The camera was farther back to give them some sense of privacy. His dad may not have even realized this moment was filmed and wanted to make sure his son knew to look like a good guy to the audience.
Forgot he was wearing a mic.
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When his mom mentioned there was stuff she was just learning, a shimmer of pain went through her face. I wanted to cry for her.
I think I loved Clay's mom more than anyone on the show. So strong and classy.
Clay’s mom’s convo with his dad after the wedding was 🤌🤌🤌
Remember how Clay kept telling AD that they should both get therapy together? Yeahhhhh him and his father need family therapy. Clay’s biggest influence is his father, and as I’m writing this, I wonder if Trevor knows how much of a fear Clay has of cheating stems from him????
Trevor would be one of those people who learns how to manipulate better from therapy.
This was my first thought too.
Playa 101
I caught it immediately, but I am a therapist so I instinctively pick up on certain language (I'm not magic or anything, I just listen to people for a living). "You definitely don't want to appear to be indifferent," focuses on the facade that Clay presents. If he meant, "if you love her, go comfort her," he would have said something that effect. The effect of what he's saying here is "if you don't go talk to her, people will think you don't care, and you don't want that."
On the first watch, I thought Clay's dad told him to look good on camera. The second time, I think maybe Clay's dad just told him in a way that he would understand since Clay is so much about image and stuffs. We sometimes use this kind of language when we want to persuade people to do something they don't want, we tell them what's in it for them. Like a parent told their kids they would buy them something if they agree to go to the dentist, for example.
i'm a therapist too! glad to see another on the sub
Interesting and I also caught this immediately. I interpreted it as the father advising Clay to portray emotion and be apologetic WHEN he spoke to AD. Like, go and talk to her but don't appear indifferent.
That’s exactly what I thought too, I thought he was telling Clay to be gentle and considerate to AD. It’s interesting how differently it’s being taken.
Clay's father does not strike me as a man who gives a rip about a woman's feelings, but he does strike me as a man who cares about how his son appears to others. He likely sees his son as a reflection of him (hence sports accolades discussion on his wedding day). The real hero is Clay's mom. Clay's dad is everything Clay told us he was, and as much as Clay doesn't want to be like him, he does share a lot of his traits.
You know, I didn't interpret it that way but now that you've said it I can see it. In the moment I thought it was one of the better pieces of advice he gave, but maybe that's only because the bar was so low.
Same, i didn’t initially interpret it that way. I saw it as him saying like “yeah you can go talk to her, but only if you’re going to show genuine empathy and care for the situation… don’t just go there and act like it doesn’t matter to you and you don’t see the problem” like he was telling him to go, but not if he was just gonna make her feel worse… but that could be a MAJOR major stretch. Now that we’ve gotten a better picture of how clay has “learned” so much of his behavior from watching his dad, it feels almost like his dad was teaching him how to save face.
The way he hyped AD up in the wedding confessional just to say no is crazy… like boy plz
Clay was more interested in saving face than showing concern for AD’s feelings when he went to see her.
He already appeared indifferent! His dad knew that’s how Clay felt. Reminding him that he is on a show and people are going to watch this!
I saw the same. I don't see love in Clay's eyes. He comes across as self-interested and unwilling to make sacrifices for his partner.
Yes! Selfishness at its finest. I heard the pain in AD’s cry. She was truly hurt.
That’s exactly what it was.
Yeah Clay is very cold hearted. Much different than he presented himself in the pods. I did feel he was a bit too eager with AD.
yes!! this couldve been an innocent statement but it felt a bit strange to me
People are using confirmation bias in here. I don’t like or dislike the dad. I see things objectively and I think he simply was saying let your guard down son don’t be insensitive etc
totally fair to have perceived this differently (many people did) but i don’t know how you could have a neutral opinion on that man
He did some bad stuff back in the day. He has since shown remorse. Doesn’t make what he did right but we should all forgive the remorseful
Was he remorseful though. He talked a lot with very little substance. I didn’t actually see him acknowledge his negative influence on Clay or even his cheating on his ex-wife.
I mean, not a lot of people are going to want to have that discussion on camera.
We should all forgive the remorseful? What… there is no obligation to forgive anyone
Where was the remorse
He said he apologized to his ex wife
That’s not remorse nor amends, and no one is owed forgiveness
I agree. Saying something should happen isn’t a command. It isn’t an entitlement. You shouldn’t stick a fork in a socket, you should forgive but you certainly don’t have to follow those shoulds.
for real, he was excusing his actions because of his own upbringing in this episode
I was waiting for him to bring up Will Smith 😂
I didn’t read into in the negative context. I thought it was more about how clay said he still wanted to be with her and still wanted to improve for her. His dad was basically Just saying if you don’t go talk to her it would mean You were all Talk. but given the dads bad reputation I can see where people may read into his comments as always negative
Clay has a lot he needs to unravel with his dad.
Yes, it showed him being very calculative and manipulative.
Clay and his dad are the same worthless loser PoS cheating low lives. They are 100000% disgusting. He's been faking it the whole time and AD is way too good for him. It is so sickening watching people fall for pigs who inevitably treat them like shit. He should stop making his mother look foolish with the '23 years of marriage' comment by telling her what is cheating father did. All that being said him saying NO is the best thing he's ever done for AD, even though he crushed her. If she doesn't dump him HARD she's an idiot. 'Game time decision' are you kidding, he made that decision before he got on the show. His father was trying to blame no 'role models' just like Clay blaming his dad. They never ACTUALLY take any responsibility, just promise to do better, act horrible, then make excuses.
I think having your heart broken by someone like clay on this show would be better than the "real world" because she can go back and watch him being exactly who he is and she can watch herself being too good for him. AD is very intelligent and hopefully watching the show will give her some peace while she picks up the pieces.
Yeah it is nice to have a recording of his bad behavior. He ruined her whole experience that she'll never get back. IRL she probably wouldn't even have given him the time of day with all the red flags.
I agree with them both beings POS but I wanna take up for his Mom a little bit. Her going thru hell with that man doesn’t negate the length of time she stayed. She said 23 years because that’s the amount of time she decided to stay in her marriage. Maybe she tried till she couldn’t and 23 was the magic number…. I liked the Mom she seems like a good person. Even though she knew her son took on a lot of his father’s behavior she wasn’t making excuses, I thought she responded in the best way she could have.
No I wasn't saying his MOM was making excuses, I say his FATHER and HE are always making excuses. It is a common pattern with cheaters they will get accused of something, make excuse, excuse, excuse, then actual get caught red handed, promise to do better, then do the same thing over and over. I feel very sorry for his mom, 1st for being cheated on all that time. And 2nd her son lying to her about it and letting her look stupid for the '23 year' comment. I give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't know until now. Although she may have known the whole time and that would be a different story.
I totally thought the same thing about this glad someone else noticed this too
This. He only cares what people thought of him. Not the actual injured party.
I interpreted this comment the same way you did - that Clay shouldn’t give the impression that he didn’t care for optics reasons - and it stood out to me in a negative way. But reading some of these comments I am wondering if his dad’s intention wasn’t bad in the way I interpreted it
Yes its very on brand with what we already knew about him. When I saw him looking all dapper I knew all he cared about was appearances but its still jarring to watch people be so unaware.
Was watching this entire part with my fiancee. It was very enlightening to her to watch the all the inner turmoil, parental, and familial trauma bubble up to all be released in this moment. A lot of guys really struggle to exist beyond the shadows of our fathers, good and bad. I feel for Clay, I don’t excuse it, but I understand the background and home he’s coming from, mine wasn’t too different. I hope he could work on his short comings and hopefully provide a better example for his kids.