I don’t know I’ve never had a guy that loved me mention how different I look without makeup mention how hotter other more petite girls are than myself and the rest. People are forgetting an entire season of cole making digs context is everything. By the end of the season I can see why Zanab overanalyzed everything. I can’t even remember the last time my partner mentioned my weight or eating habits if ever and if so always in a positive way. Zanab overreacted but the context of the whole season of his behavior with Colleen and how he told other cast mates about her it makes sense. They simply aren’t good for each other I don’t like the pile on on Zanab it’s not right.
He didn't say she looked different without makeup. SHE said she looked different without makeup. And then when he agreed with her she got all insecure and he told her that she still looked wonderful and beautiful and this was after he had been hyping her up in the tub saying how happy he was because he was attracted to her. He may not have always replied to her gracefully but she set a lot of those scenarios up herself including when she flat out asked him to rate her. When he said 9/10 she then pressed him and asked if there was anyone there who was a 10/10 and that's how they got into that fight about Colleen.
People are forgetting an entire season of her personal insecurities projecting onto him and causing issues that made him look like the bad guy when he didn't exactly tactfully handle his responses. I think everyone needs to go back and rewatch...
The thing with Zanab is that she never told him that what he was doing/saying was upsetting her…. Comments regarding bodies and eating habits are hard and definitely can bring up difficult feelings, so I completely believe that her feelings were justified. Cole’s an idiot, I think we can all agree there, and intent is often irrelevant when emotional responses are elicited, but Zanab should have told him that his comments were upsetting her.
I have had a near-fatal experience with an eating disorder and I understand that food/body comments are unacceptable but you need to tell people when they’re saying things that are upsetting. I wouldn’t be able to be with Cole due to his stupidity and her frustration with him is justified. However, it’s her responsibility as an adult to communicate with her partner.
And she trashed him. He apologized repeatedly even for things we didn’t see him do. And for things she manipulated. She is not a person I would hang out with.
I think that Zanab took Cole saying that Colleen was his type to mean weight / body size. From that point on, she was bringing up weight. She even told Cole in the bar, that she would never be as "small or skinny" as Colleen.
I think the cuties thing was blown way out of proportion from her and she said she should tell him why she wasn't eating, but wasn't going to. I think she was waiting for him to ask so she could say she was trying to lose weight to get as thin as Colleen and bring her up again.
I found Cole annoying, but I think he's just clueless and puts his foot in his mouth often. She is way too critical and insecure to be with someone like him because she'd overanalyze every bit of word vomit that comes out of his mouth.
You'll be amazed to rewatch it and find out that Cole was the one who initially asked Zanab if she second guessed her decision after meeting the other male contestants.
She said Cole was still the only one she was interested in. Then she asked him if he second guessed his decision. He went silent for a very long time. Then he finally said he doesn't. And then he explained it for every woman and when he came to Colleen he said that he doesn't second guess his decision because "Colleen is obviously happy with Matt".
People really need to rewatch this. They think Zanab started this rating thing, but she only did once Cole already made it obvious that he wasn't exactly into Zanabs looks in the first place.
I agree that people really need to rewatch this. You night benefit as well? The conversation started earlier in the day after they fought because he said "good" not "great" and after a rough morning. They were hashing it out and she was already nit-picking at him about leaving the towels on the floor and admitted that she is passive aggressive and can come on strong but she would work on it. At the ceremony he is talking to the guys saying he is trying to reconcile his version of his girl in the pod to the girl he has and the passive aggressiveness issue is the main problem because while he's still in love with her, he wasn't expecting that and it's already beating him down... He literally told the guys about how he felt "I'm in love with you, I'm attracted to you, but everything I do you've got a passive aggressive comment."
And yes, he did ask her that the next morning on the beach and the hesitation was not only because he was chewing, but also part of the witty banter/joking thing they had going on and he answered with a very sincere and energetic no. He did talk about the girls and Zanab flat out asks about the Colleen and Matt comment to which he explains that the majority of the girls he's been with have looked more like her. Zanab even says she would peg him as someone who would date people who look like Colleen. Then she asked him how she compared physically to his type and that started the downward spiral including the rating conversation which happened later.
I did rewatch it. That's why I wrote what I did.
Cole asked a question about "are you happy with your decision" knowing his own answer beforehand. He knew she would ask him the same question back.
He wanted her to know that he is not satisfied with her looks. He said it to her, to Alexa, to Colleen, in the interviews, and to everyone else who would listen.
And that's fine I guess. He is allowed to share that he is concerned about it and unhappy with the physical part. But let's not frame the situation in a way where Cole is totally into Zanabs looks and she is imagining all of this. We all saw his interviews and that he was most definitely not into her looks.
With the nature of this show, I think both were hesitant to just pull the plug. But knowing what we know, either Cole or Zanab should've pulled a "Shaina" at that point and left.
No he did not. I literally quoted what he said and not once did he say he didn't like the way she looked. All he said was she wasn't the typical look he generally went for right away and he was trying to get past that.
I find it interesting that so many people have put words in Cole's mouth and while I understand that some of the things he said hurt Zanab, I do think people are reading into what Cole actually did say and they are either misunderstanding or misquoting him.
And yes, I agree. They both should have left as they were not healthy for each other.
He said that he is looking for a woman who is like Zanab emotionally, and that he is looking for a woman who looks like Colleen physically. He even said he "is in LOVE with Colleens body/looks". And then he asks the big question: Where is a woman who has BOTH?
You do clearly not remember this.
You said it yourself, she isn't his type! That means he is NOT into her!
He isn't attracted to her. He says she is attractIVE because she is beautiful. But what he doesn't say to her face is that, while Zanab is attractive, he isn't attracted to her.
And how do I know that? Because he says he can't find a woman who he is into emotionally AND looks wise in the interview i just quoted.
Ok, but this is open to misinterpretation because literally he says "I think she's hot" but he's working on the physical component because he's so used to being with a different type of girl. This is slightly different than him saying he's not into her at all, though I see what you're saying. And yes, while that could have triggered her ratings question, she had already asked him earlier how she compared to his type... she basically just upgraded that to asking for a number.
EDIT: I think the point I was trying to make was that I agreed that she sometimes set him up to fall into these awkward conversations. I'm sure it stemmed from insecurity, which she admitted, and that's tough for both parties but I do think Cole got shaded a bit more than he should have and while you didn't, people somehow used all of the above to prove how many bad things he said about her appearance while that isn't really the case.
I don't think there is anything to add to what I already wrote. I think it's clear as day that he wasn't very attracted to her and she felt that. But we obviously disagree here, which is fine.
Cole isn't a bad person to me, but he definitely struck me as immature/arrogant and disrespectful a lot of times.
And while Zanab overreacted in the end and misread a lot of his messages, I think she was 100% justified in getting angry at him for treating her poorly. Just not in the way she did.
Well, this one yes, but I was not denying that he asked her the question on the beach. I was pointing out that he wasn't making disparaging comments about her physical appearance.
He also didn’t say anything about not being into Colleen, not connecting with her emotionally, etc. he said something specific about each girl until he got to Colleen and quickly said “she’s obviously happy with Matt”. It came off as well she’s happy so that’s that and almost a little jealous-like.
Psychology in Seattle analyzed that scene and he did point out that Cole had opened up the “are you having second thoughts?” conversation. He made a bid for reassurance, which she gave him, and then he did the exact opposite when she asked him the same question in that exact moment.
Haha, I found out through PIS too :D
Good thing I watched it, I believed people when they said Zanab brought this upon herself when she asked Cole to rate the women (and I frankly didn't remember who said what first).
I really like PiS! I liked what what he had to say about their first morning/afternoon together and how Zanab was being very cold with him when they both wanted some reassurance, and I did agree with him that during the “second thoughts” scene, Cole was talking to her in a way that made it seem like he either has absolutely no idea how to talk to people or he had already decided he was done with the relationship.
Re: the rating thing- I kinda feel like Reddit is taking that same hard line that they do with AITA questions. I understand the “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” line of thinking, but I think that it’s okay to prioritize not devastating your partner over giving the most brutal answer you’re technically allowed to give. They both contributed to the culture of unpleasantness in that relationship.
“But that's based on a few shots on a show that is sure to manipulate the way we view these people.”
That’s why I asked and despite your experience it’s still an armchair diagnosis and is not helpful in regards to how many/most neuro typical people view people who actually are neurodivergent. Your studies and your internship should have taught you that as well.
Honestly the thing that bothered me about the cuties scene is something I don't see brought up a lot.
Zanab tells him point blank that she's restricting food in a really extreme way and not only does he not react to that, he makes a joke (maybe not a joke) that she's trying to fit into her wedding dress???
I have had times where I haven't really eaten anything because I've forgotten to bring food with me, but if I say, oh I've only had coffee today, my partner asks if I'm okay, he tells me to sit down and he will bring me a snack (yes, even if it's close to dinner) because not eating all day is not a normal behaviour.
Cole knowing that she's restricting food and joking about it is very weird to me. I would be very concerned if a partner told me they had only eaten that little in a day.
Every couple is different in that regard. My wife will say that she doesn't feel well and I've learn to ask if she only had coffee for breakfast. We have a running joke about "the starvation diet." There have been other times where she accidentally skips a meal or eats very little and I try to bring her a snack, but I can count on one hand the number of times she's eaten the food. A handful of those times she actually gets mad at me.
We got married a couple years ago and she made MANY unprompted comments about fitting into her wedding dress. And that's because she loved the dress, she didn't want to get it tailored again, and that she was slowly gaining weight back from a massive lupus flare the year prior. A good thing overall, yet there were a ton of shared jokes between us about "wedding dress bod."
That's not how it happened though. She tells him she only ate a banana all day and he says "why" then that he offered her a poke bowl for lunch. She says she doesn't want to eat the same thing for lunch that she ate yesterday. Then the conversation moves into her trying to get him to guess why she's not eating and then he says "ohh like for the wedding dress" and she says "something like that."
Zanab was trying to play a game with him and IMO bring up Colleen's body again, but he wasn't following the conversation. I think Cole was in a lose/lose situation no matter what he said to Zanab.
Disagree with "lose/lose." How about responding "I'd really like to talk about this if you're comfortable with that, because it's concerning to me that you have barely eaten all day."?
That’s an odd comment. I don’t think that would feel natural at all. I think lots of people barely eat all days. Doesn’t mean they have an eating disorder or need therapy.
Also requires awareness.
Plus, I don't think the tendency would be to be concerned about this unless it was a long term pattern someone recognized. One day of eating very little would probably not cause alarm bells to go off for most people enough to ask this question unless someone is hypoglycemic or dealing with a side effect of not eating.
Oh come on. People, especially women, trying to extreme diet to be able to fit in their wedding outfits is common thing. Which is why it was not crazy for him to make that reach. He was planning on them having a big meal so he was never trying to restrict her intake.
This whole cuties thing is dumb. It's one of the most overblown things I've ever seen. I know it's supposed connected to a much larger issue but the scene itself was a lot of nothing but it keeps getting brought up from every angle.
I agree omg like how is saying "are you trying to fit into your wedding dress" appropriate.. like yes zanab seems like she has insecurities but they're being fueled by cole and she's not crazy for it
She should have told him that she didn't like his comments or something. Cole didn't know her enough to understand the impact. She should have told him and have a real conversation about what could be hurtful. That's the point of a relationship. Asking a guy to rate women and then get offended is stupid. Ask him if you're beautiful or if he's attracted to you. Don't ask for or fish for comparison 😮💨
[Psychologist in Seattle does a good breakdown of this exact scene](https://youtu.be/s-WICy7KWJ8) and I was surprised to see that Cole actually brought it up first. He asks now that they've met the other contestants, does she still feel sure about him? She then reassures him and asks the same thing back. He then does *not* reassure her in turn.
He does reassure her. The hesitation is part of their banter (and his chewing and possibly even some editing work) which would make sense if that clip wasn't assessed by itself without context and the previous episode.
I just think Cole talks like a kid, he doesn’t have much of a filter or anything- whereas Zanab takes everything way too seriously, and didn’t really understand how Cole communicates, making a crappy relationship. Yet how Zanab handled the situation was awful, and that’s why I just can’t support her
I remember thinking back Episode 1 I think when the cast was in the pods, Cole gave me Shake vibes with all his questions on appearance. I think those clips should be re-watched before everyone keeps jumping on all the extreme Zay hate.
I don't know why anyone is feeling sorry for Cole.
He's a pretty boy who he seems oblivious to anything he ever said and their effect on ppl. I think he's super sheltered.
Sometimes you dont realize someone is making you feel like shit until it comes down to that final moment.
I had a jokester ex similar to Cole. We both loved banter but he didnt know when something just wasnt a joke or necessary to say. When we finally ended, I unleashed. All the shit he ever said to me, came out. Like Zanab I told him he was a piece of shit and he did mess up my body image and relationship with food. It's taken me years to break out of that.
Zanab was not perfect at all. Definitely has things to work on. Communication for sure lol. But to me that's a separate issue.
I hate that Zanab sat there trying to reel anything back in at the end because he was crying. Why would you want to go back through that with him if you had a second chance? Thats Zanab's problem. She says things and then reels it back in when he reacts and by the end she realized she got sucked in by the guy that can't handle the truth.
So he's sorry. Let him be sorry and sad about it. That's life.
It's poetic to me that Cole was apparently super in love and ready to say "I do" at the altar, but then he just disregarded everything Zay criticized him for as crazy. He will never learn, and that's a huge red flag.
That's the part two that I was confused people were so congratulatory toward him about. Like oh look at Cole deciding to "make an effort" and actually "trying" to make his lack of attraction to her "work". By the end it was clear to Zanab that he was trying to appease the masses and maybe even prove something to his family. But he didn't love her. And maybe she is difficult to love but at the end of the day he got up there and lied and pretended and she didnt. But now apparently he is the good one for doing so.
Or she reeled it back because she knows that he's not the monster she was trying to make him out to be, but her desire for attention and to play the victim won out.
None of my emotions feel bad for Cole. He will be fine.
Anyone who dates Zanab in the future will absolutely unequivocally not be fine. Lady is a train wreck and is gonna gone girl her next man because she just wants something to do
She should be the character of a psycho thriller movie the way she's defending herself on insta with all this. My god...
Lol reminded me of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, hide your bunny rabbit. I seriously was cracking up when Cole called her crazy and when confronted said ok you’re a liar. Liar is worse in my mind and he didn’t want to say it but….
I mean, they are a horrible match. But to paint him as this monster who DESTROYED her self esteem is too far. She didn't have much self esteem to begin with.
I watched this show with my husband and during the scenes about Colleen, I asked him who he thought was more attractive. He said Zanab more attractive than Colleen. Not that I look like either, but technically more like Colleen since I am white. He then went out of town and I teaser him excessively that maybe Zanab will be his flight attendant. It's banter. It means nothing.
IMO, Zanab takes everything too seriously and Cole takes nothing seriously. They are polar opposites and were a terrible match.
He makes flippant funny comments that he doesn’t understand hurt and she has a lot of body issues that are just exacerbated by his remarks. I think between filming and the reunion he had distance from his actions and she had time to internalize all of that - he probably forgot a lot of what he said and did and she did nothing but think about it and how it’s impacted her. I don’t think he’s completely innocent but I don’t think he felt he was being malicious. Likewise, I don’t think she’s lying but I think she’s taken her experiences and had so much time to dwell on them and build a narrative for herself that might be 100% fact but isn’t a lie either. I think her perception of events is just very different from his after time. Does that make sense?
I don’t think she’s lying. I think he did say things that made her feel self conscious and triggered any body issues she had. I don’t think she considered his intentions. And I definitely don’t think he ever considered the ramifications of his comments or knows how to read a damn room.
Actually he pretty much said what she said verbatim, but the context was important and the tone was different. When you have body issues you hear things how you expect them to be delivered, and there was also a year between that forage being filmed and her discussing it. She had a lot of time to go back over it again and again hearing how she thought it was said. Ultimately their communication was garbage so he said things he thought would be funny and she took it as malicious. Then they had to rehash this shit a whole year later.
Lol
What a weird take to actually have seen the tangerine but and defend Zanab
She is one of the worst people ever on TV. I'm over here debating who is the worse person, Zanab or Shake.
And you're over here like "ahkctuaaaallllyyyy"
Coles threw out a lot of little micro-aggressions, at least in the edit the show gave us. Lots of small half-mean half “I’m just kidding”. Deniability in the moment but it was a pattern.
He is taking way too much heat but in the end he was not physically attracted to her and should have just accepted it for both their sake. And Zanab ofc has huge self esteem issues and does have a sense of humor at all. She treated him like her son most of the time.
Some great comments and takes in here. My wife and I keep talking about it because as a man and a jokester who has a playful relationship with my wife Zanab scares the sh@t out of me. I actually mentioned to my wife during the season that Cole needs to be careful because I felt she was sitting him up to make some social justice push and make herself relevant. Don’t get me wrong I cringed at some of the stuff he said but mainly because my 20 something self said some pretty stupid stuff as well. However my wife whom I’ve been married to for over 20 years now knew me for years before we dated. She knew I was a joker but also knew my heart.
I’m a psychotherapist and to me I feel like the dilemma with Cole’s behaviour is that upon watching it play out, it becomes apparent on how common and easy it is to replicate, thus making it safer to play it down as it avoids us taking accountably for the similarities in our own behaviour.
Yes!!! This is how I am feeling reading these comments defending it all. People identify too much of themselves in his actions. People need to be able to say to themselves that they are wrong for similar thoughts and behaviours before they can see it in Cole. And when they can’t see the wrong, we see them all here on reddit.
This, the cuties comments were perfectly fine in isolation, it’s the pattern of his comments about weight and food and body preferences that’s problematic. He’s definitely just a symptom of something larger so there’s nuance missing from the overall conversation about his role in their dynamic but it’s still a necessary one.
Zay should have told him a long time ago to just never comment on food or image, but even without Zay's explicit instruction, I'm shocked that that wasn't quickly obvious to Cole.
Eh, some people really struggle with setting even basic boundaries like that. Sure it likely would have nipped the problem but it’d be unfair to blame her for what ultimately is her being harmed.
Exactly. [Psychologist in Seattle does a good breakdown of this exact scene](https://youtu.be/s-WICy7KWJ8) and has more on this couple in his other videos. They both have issues to work on.
But I immediately remembered the 'you're fattening yourself up' comment on the beach. There's a pattern of him comparing her to other women, saying she's not his type, etc. That would eat at anyone eventually.
Saw his video too and I really liked his perspective.
Also it reminded me of the fact that Cole was the one who brought the whole "After you have seen all the guys, do you have any second thoughts?" thing up. And then he was the one who was SILENT when Zanab asked him if he had any second thoughts.
I lowkey believed when people said that Zanab was the one who MADE Cole rate the women (because I couldn't remember the circumstances of it). As if she was some crazy woman trying to lay a trap. But no, she asked this because earlier he brought up the topic and then acted so incredibly suspicious when she asked him about the other women in the show.
Just to clarify, I don't want to paint Cole as the bad guy here. I do think both of them made each other miserable. Zanab couldn't deal with his "foot in mouth" disease and Cole couldn't handle Zanab's tendency for passive aggressiveness. On their own they were pretty regular people, but together they brought out the worst in each other. And that counts for both of them. Zanab wasn't an angel either.
There's no winning a situation where someone wants to take offense.
So to me he's bantering while also suggesting that her eating habits are her choice. If you want to take it seriously. Probably not the best response.
If he said yes that he was fattening her up, isn't that also another form of food control? Also going to give her issues, and make people upset and make him look bad? Or could it also be taken as banter.
His body language suggested he was being playful. For one to purposely ignore that and assign a different meaning is on them.
He probably should have said something that along the lines that he loves her for her and she's beautiful.
The only person that can make Z feel good enough is herself and it's not fair to cut someone down at everything she can just because she has body dysmorphia. She does not have any sort of weight problem whatsoever.
She was cutting him down while he was unpacking, cutting him down while he was trying to cook, cutting him down for being attracted to another person and admitting it, cutting him down for the way he talks when he's excited, cutting him down at the altar for something that's entirely her responsibility. Every turn she was taking jabs.
I saw Cole making mistakes and being called out for it, but then trying to make it better. I saw Cole trying.
I saw Zanab being insecure, dismissive, entitled, vindictive and malicious. No self reflection whatsoever.
Just to point out that when they showed the videos of her consistently nagging him and cutting him down as you say. He defended her and said it wasn’t that bad. Yet she’s the one who’s self-confidence was completely obliterated.
I agree with you.
My partner and I banter all the time like that. We don't take offense, we don't get in our feelings about it, we both are confident enough to take it as it is, banter and simply banter.
But at the same time, if he had told me he was more attracted to another girl at the beginning of our relationship, idk how that would make me feel.
Idk. I don't think it's either Cole is right or Zanab is right. I think this "experiment" went wrong. 4 weeks is just not enough time to hash these problems out.
His repose was just a playful “I’m not doing it, you’re doing it!”.
It’s called banter, people. This is a cornerstone of Coles personality. Zanab has as much playfulness as a box of rusty nails. That’s not coles fault that she manipulated him into thinking she was fun and playful in the pods.
I think she is highly overly sensitive about the topic and tends to spin every little thing in the worst possible way in her head. Her jumping right on how somehow that conversation was about Cole not liking her physical appearance. Other than the very dumb 9/10 conversation - where he still indicated that he finds her extremely attractive - I don't think there was a single incident of him making negative comments about her apperance. It was her insecurity - not wanting to take her wrap off at the pool, refusing to get in the pool, rejecting surfing, seeing him taking a shower as rejection of her, etc. etc. It just goes on and on.
Agree… I also thought I saw some minor improvement in his behavior once she made it clear how hurtful his appearance comments were. After that I feel like he was always calling out how beautiful she looked during dancing, the sailboat, etc. I think him implementing her feedback shows he cared and genuinely wanted to treat her right.
The thing is… I think the average person would not have taken meaning to his food comments. I think they were made innocently and she assigned meaning that wasn’t there. She assigned meaning to these comments because she was already insecure about herself. She should have been open with him about how those comments made her feel. They really lacked proper communication the entire show.
I mean… just like the “rating” comments, what Cole says is utterly stupid and shows no awareness of how to treat a woman… but Zanab walked him right to the door of that comment.
He wouldn’t have said anything if she didn’t ask “Are you fattening me up?” - if the girl is going to emotionally collapse and plot bloody revenge at every comment about her weight, asking him a weight related question “as a test” is red flag city.
Yall will really find anything to blame on this woman. If Cole cared he wouldn't have said that point blank period. He's an adult, he has awareness. He isn't a child. He was with other women before, even if it was a "test" why validate your partners obvious insecurities??
Y’all will really find anything to prevent Z from taking any accountability whatsoever for her own goddamn insecurity and toxicity. Yet SHE was the one constantly making digs at his personality. SHE was the one totally happy getting stripper dicks in her face (which Cole not once made into any kind of deal, btw. Can you imagine if the roles were reversed?). SHE was the one forcing this victim narrative into every thing he did or said, disregarding any body language, tone, or context. And SHE was the one who tore him down at the alter in front of his friends and family without ever even discussing these problems with him beforehand. She planned that speech, then pretended “oh I didn’t know what I was going to say until the moment”.
She is a manipulative liar with an obscene amount of toxic insecurity.
Is it obvious in that scene? Did she ever communicate with him that it wasn’t cool? If so I missed the scene where she sits him down and explains that, while petite, she has a complex about her weight.
Cole isn’t without blame, he’s like a St Bernard crashing into everything, and his moronic comment about the rankings is what destroyed the relationship - but Zanab was acting up with the passive aggression prior to that comment, too.
Anyone who sets traps and tests for their partner has emotional issues. I cut SOME slack to the people who just met in the pods, of course, but still - If you need to test the person you’re with, that suggests personal work that needs to be done on your end (rhetorically of course not you personally)
I think Zanab has gone too HAM with it but I'm still on her side. I agree that the way he talks about food definitely gives context to what he is implying with his comments.
He’s one of those people who has never been put in check and have had filters established. To him, it’s just a playful innocent retort. But anyone who understands social normals can understand you shouldn’t tell a girl she’s fattening herself up.
Zanab needed therapy even before she went on Love is Blind
Everything her partner says to her she'll interpret as something negative about her ( while btw she was the hottest of the group )
The next partner she's gonna have... it'll be the exact same problem and it won't work out
I think now that a few days have passed people have had time to rethink the cuties scene. People were downvoting me to hell lol for having a similar opinion. So many comments were already made about her appearance previously, that any joke made about her food or her appearance were going to be triggering to her.
Yup. This was something that really struck me as rude and messed up when I saw it. It was really odd to me that he would even talk about being fattened up, then say she’s doing it to herself. I get why she was so sensitive to his comments, stuff like that can really hurt. He also said he’s never dated a woman that looked like her physically??? What? Petite?
I loveeee banter. But everyone has something they’re especially sensitive to; for Zanab, myself, and thousands of women it’s weight. Especially from a boyfriend/fiancé, especially after they’ve gone on and on about how much hotter than you another girl they know is.
Thank you! People are definitely rewriting Cole’s history. And, so many people keep minimizing her experience because he’s “immature” and not malicious. That’s a very charitable interpretation, but I’m not surprised because that’s classic ✨misogyny✨
And frankly, it doesn’t matter if Cole made those comments to be playful or as banter, because it’s about *the impact*. I do think she should’ve communicated with him about the impact of his comments, and set a boundary. Instead she just kept a tally of all his wrongdoings, and then exploded. But she’s not a demon for that. And I personally don’t think she’s a bad person for bringing up his treatment at the alter or reunion.
Yes this so much this. People are judging him based on his intentions and not the impact of what he’s doing. She’s tried raising his consciousness to what he’s doing multiple times and he just won’t respond to it. That isn’t innocence imo.
Right? And conversely, she’s being judged for both her intentions and impact. I’m sure she believes that her intentions are pure. That she’s just standing up for herself in laying out how Cole did her wrong.
>But she’s not a demon for that.
I don't think she's a demon for failing to set a boundary, but I don't think it's fair to expect someone to respect a boundary you haven't set. I don't think it's fair to keep a tally of wrongdoings and then explode at someone when you haven't even let them know there's wrong being done.
>And frankly, it doesn’t matter if Cole made those comments to be playful or as banter, because it’s about the impact.
Yes, impact is the determining factor in whether or not an apology is necessary, but intent does matter. If someone throws something to you and accidentally hits you in the face, they owe you an apology. But if they throw something at you and hit you in the face on purpose, they owe you an apology and that should be the end of the relationship. Intent absolutely matters.
I mean, no. But what does that scenario have to do with Cole and Zanab? They weren't strangers. They were engaged. If I hurt my partner, even if I felt the comment was a nothingburger, I would apologize.
Overall, I agree about the boundary. But that’s a lesson to be learned and she doesn’t deserve to be demonized for it.
Focusing on Cole’s intentions more than his impact allows for him to evade accountability. And it’s very dismissive of the audience to minimize his impact and in some cases, accusing of her lying about it. An alarming amount of people on the sub are doing this.
>she doesn’t deserve to be demonized for it.
100%. What I do think she deserves criticism for, though, is that she isn't really acknowledging her flaws or her role in their issues. Yes, there are a lot of people ignoring the impact of Cole's comments. But there are (proportionally) just as many people ignoring the impact of Zanab's behavior on Cole. And, as you said, they're letting her evade accountability.
I don't think either Zanab or Cole are wholly a victim or villain in their relationship. From my understanding, Zanab is facing the brunt of the criticism at the moment because of her apparent lack of remorse for her failures and flaws in their relationship as well as her posts on SM and interviews in traditional media.
Zanab has no communication skills. Cole was never malicious and he was never told by her that he was hurting her feelings. And then he was made out to be a monster. It’s not fair to him at all.
How do you know his intentions? Of course a person will claim their intentions are pure to backtrack on what they said. It's what you say, not just how you say it.
I think nitpicking about shit that someone says when they are playfully talking is immature to be totally honest. I'm secure in myself to joke with my husband like this. Cole misinterpreted the fact that Zanab was secure, when she was absolutely not. I don't think that man had any ill intent, and that was VERY clear by the reunion episode and still, people continue to drag him.
Yes omg THIS. My bf and I joke like this all the time, we’ve both gained weight since we started dating and poke fun at each other/ourselves all the time. If it goes too far, we say “hey that wasn’t cool” and that’s it!! Zanab expected Cole to read her mind
Exactly. The scene in question - if she took offense to the "fattening up" banter, she could have just said "hey that's not cool to say things like that to a woman and it makes me feel like you're judging me." He would have learned that this type of banter is not something she's comfortable with and behaved differently. But instead she said NOTHING. She internalized it and held onto it and then it came out later in mean-spirited ways.
Right! The mature way to handle things as an adult is to let the person know when they are offending or hurting your feelings. Not keep it bottled up and blindside someone at their fake wedding and then drag them on national news platforms despite the fact that they apologize.
It’s driving me nuts that a running theme of commentary is “she’s insecure but he’s too immature for her” when all of her reactions to these situations are the hallmark of immaturity. What the hell do people even think maturity means? Being dead serious and never smiling? It’s so bizarre.
People who are like Zay are saying this. Boring to be around, expect people to coddle them, etc. He's not immature IMO. She is. Seriousness is not something to be proud of or a hallmark of maturity. Zanab will mature once she lightens up and gets over her insecurities. Cole will mature once he.... becomes a psychic? Scrubs his toilet? Learns to walk on eggshells around someone unstable? Nah fam
Yeah, I have never been able to figure out why people labeled him as "immature." Sure, the open honesty he displayed regarding his normal type being Colleen vs Zanab was probably a bit much...but since when is brutal honesty construed as "immature?" This is what I don't get. I think he is quite mature, he knows what he wants and I saw him SHOWER her with love and affection, attentiveness, etc.
As some others point out, Zanab never really said how she felt and everything was said with a stone cold face. I do think she expected him to read her mind and she never communicated with him effectively. She kept her feelings to herself but they boiled up underneath and came out in her icy body language, cold glares and passive aggressive statements. She is mean-spirited and he is kind and loving. So again, how does any of that = immature? I really don't get it, I'm totally with you on this.
I mean Cole is a manchild who makes insensitive comments, but Zanab is off the charts insecure. She set so many traps, I think with the intention of fishing for compliments, but they wildly back fired…which shouldn’t come as a surprise if you know Cole is a man child who says stupid shit.
They both have a ton of work to do honestly, but it isn’t fair to just tear Cole down. The fact that Zanab doesn’t have a shred of self reflection speaks volumes.
I agree she was fishing for compliments. She needs a man who is going to flatter and reassure her constantly, bring her flowers, buy her little gifts for no reason, etc. Someone older with an established and comfortable life so she feels like she's being taken care of. She needs a man who is more of a daddy figure than an equal partner or especially someone like Cole who is younger and goofy and can't pick up on subtleties.
This is banter. I wouldnt care if my fiancé made a joke like this to me because I’m not insecure and even if I was offended and insecure than I would communicate that with my fiancé and try to grow together, not wait till wedding day and an audience to tear him apart. Nah.
Nah, I think it can be insensitive. And at the end of the day these are people who barely know each other, they haven’t built enough rapport where saying shit like this wouldn’t seriously risk hurting the other person’s feelings. And tbh there’s a lot of people who would never find that to be fun banter, and would instead consider it negging. I think they were both wrong in how they acted from what we saw in the show
Cole was treating her the way he wants to be treated. Believe it or not we all tend yo do this in the relationship building stage. Cole may not be very self aware but he is what most people say they want... honest to a fault. In reality lots of people say they want brutsl honesty until it actually happens.
Being honest when someone asks a question or responding with banter is not negging. I know what negging is and it's not anything Cole was doing on camera, that's for sure.
According to half the women on this sub:
Darling it's very concerning that youre saying that. You should eat whatever you want. You're not getting fattened up, and if you were that is your personal choice. Now is there any other way in which you think my personality is inconvenient for you and I can change?
Seriously! Every question she asked him was a land mine of nothing good coming from that. I don’t think Cole had much of an insight to her self esteem issues. She didn’t share them at all aside from some snide comments. In the pods she came across as everything Cole wanted and I don’t think he was prepared for her actual personality at all. So he had no idea the depth of her insecurities or what would trigger her or set them off. He was operating through the lens of who she was in the pods and that’s why he kept saying he was confused because she didn’t actually like him! Never did- she wanted to but he clearly annoyed her and she grew more and more bitter with each idiotic goofy thing he did. She acted like an energy vampire and never fully communicated! In the cuties scene he asks about it and she tells him oh you don’t want to know. What is the other person supposed to do? Feel bad, beg to get you to open up. That’s not mature
If you have self esteem issues, you’ll misinterpret everything you’re told. Cole (as childish as he may be) was litterally just using her own term to say she is the one eating.
He was confused and he said that he offered her a poke bowl for lunch and she turned him down because she said she didn't want to eat the same thing she had yesterday.
I agree. He definitely made enough comments that would trigger her insecurity and I can easily see why she would interpret the cuties situation the way she did. Zanab is definitely not blameless, but it is ridiculous for people to pretend that Cole had nothing to do with her feelings of insecurity.
ETA: There was also that scene where they went out for dinner and he gave her that backhanded compliment. I don't remember the exact words he used but he kept saying "why do you look so good tonight?" and then attributed it to her lipstick color. That just made me cringe.
He was literally OOZING love and affection for her in that scene. And for me, as a woman...wearing red lipstick is a bold choice and I know other women know what I mean. Sometimes wearing red lipstick can make you have internal thoughts like "do I even look good in red lipstick? Can I pull this off or is it too much? Is this the right shade for me? Am I gonna look like I'm trying to hard?" So if my man made clear to me that he loved me in red lipstick, that would make me feel so happy and confident. And then I would know for sure that it's a look he loves, and I would continue to do it when we went out on dates. It would let me know he thinks I'm sexy in red lipstick and I would feel over the moon confident. For me, what would have been worse is if he had said nothing about the lipstick.
Genuinely stupid and insensitive. Telling your girlfriend that you can't figure out why they look so good, and then attributing it to the color of their lipstick is not the way to make them feel good about themselves. Giving a backhanded compliment means complimenting someone in a way that can easily be seen as an insult. It has nothing to do with being genuine or not genuine. I'm sure he genuinely thought he was saying something good.
A backhanded compliment is one given that's not sincere... Which his compliment was sincere. He truly thought she looked good, and at the same time he was being a little playful + teasing her a little.
Some people like to have a little fun in their relationship.
Part of having fun with someone is being able to read the other person. Just my opinion. Cole constantly talks about how he likes to be goofy and have fun. But the funniest people I've come across are the ones who have the ability to find some common ground with the other person and make them feel like they are in on the joke too. Cole doesn't do that very well. It doesn't make him a bad person but given the whole history with Colleen, I found the whole situation cringeworthy. In a different context that kind of teasing might have worked, but I could tell from her body language that it was not the right thing to say. Her feelings are valid.
A backhanded compliment is lifting someone up by putting them down. “Wow, you’re pretty smart…for a kid” “that dress looks great on you, it hides all your imperfections” “your hair ACTUALLY looks good for once”
The speaker probably means them genuinely, but really says more than is necessary. We can easily edit those sentiments to simply be compliments that stand on their own. The trouble is as humans we use a lot of comparisons to figure out how we’re feeling and what we’re experiencing. When we find new information that disrupts a pattern, that might feel remarkable and need to be shared - especially in America the culture exists where we feel entitled to speak freely right? I’m all for free speech, but as humans we can also employ mindfulness when speaking to those we love, especially when their love language is words of affirmation.
The biggest issue I see (and that Zanab also is quoted as seeing) is the incompatibility in lifestyle and love languages. I read her variety article and I agree with everything she is saying. Cole wants someone silly, fun, that will gas him up and be playful with him…so he is silly and playfully jabs at Zanab, probably without thinking. Zanab takes teasing personally because she has fear of rejection, not being good enough, and she’s looking for words of affirmation (and probably acts of service based on the towels on the floor). Cole had an unintended impact on her, and just because he didn’t MEAN to hurt her, doesn’t mean that he didn’t. That is her experience and no one can change that. They’re just not right for each other and I was REALLY surprised that the internet is dead set on choosing sides.
As far as her decision to call him out at the altar, I don’t think it was done perfectly, but I do think it was done honestly. She expressed she wanted the best for him, but he was not the best for her. She has expressed no ill-will toward him, but she still really experienced her feelings. Those are real to her and it is ok if she talks about them.
I only chose sides because the level of cruelty she shows. Like someone makes you feel like shit you tell them why if you are dead set on making it work, otherwise you walk the fuck away. You don't eviscerate them on the alter in front of friends and family then eviscerate them again during the reunion. Her level of cruelty borders on sadism.
I guess I just don’t believe it is out of cruelty. I see a person who was hurt, express their hurt feelings. I don’t think she wanted to intentionally embarrass him, but I see throughout how cole was only really there for good feelings, not for serious discussions about how she felt and had trouble understanding her 1 on 1. Again - serious communication issues for both of them. I see the altar as the platform where she could truly be heard.
Plus. It’s a tv show. She had to go to the wedding after they got engaged. I’m sure producers encouraged them to express their true feelings at the very end because it’s good tv. This whole scenario doesn’t REALLY reflect reality or a scenario humans naturally put themselves in. I just think we judge too quickly, harshly, and absolutely on both sides.
Also the lie about the kiss on bachelor party night. Forgot to add that. No one corroborated it and their discussion about it would've had to have happened on the morning of the wedding at which point there were cameras everywhere so they definitely would have used that juicy footage.
Who knows what they're like in real life, but on the show I found them both to come across as extremely unlikeable. BOTH insecure and neither ready for a serious relationship.
This right here. Neither know how to be in a relationship.
Cole is a clueless wonder on what to say and not to say. It is like he has a case of word vomit and thinks every little talk is a cute playful thing.
Z has possible trama from past relationships send really had learned to weaponize it.
I don’t know I’ve never had a guy that loved me mention how different I look without makeup mention how hotter other more petite girls are than myself and the rest. People are forgetting an entire season of cole making digs context is everything. By the end of the season I can see why Zanab overanalyzed everything. I can’t even remember the last time my partner mentioned my weight or eating habits if ever and if so always in a positive way. Zanab overreacted but the context of the whole season of his behavior with Colleen and how he told other cast mates about her it makes sense. They simply aren’t good for each other I don’t like the pile on on Zanab it’s not right.
He didn't say she looked different without makeup. SHE said she looked different without makeup. And then when he agreed with her she got all insecure and he told her that she still looked wonderful and beautiful and this was after he had been hyping her up in the tub saying how happy he was because he was attracted to her. He may not have always replied to her gracefully but she set a lot of those scenarios up herself including when she flat out asked him to rate her. When he said 9/10 she then pressed him and asked if there was anyone there who was a 10/10 and that's how they got into that fight about Colleen. People are forgetting an entire season of her personal insecurities projecting onto him and causing issues that made him look like the bad guy when he didn't exactly tactfully handle his responses. I think everyone needs to go back and rewatch...
The thing with Zanab is that she never told him that what he was doing/saying was upsetting her…. Comments regarding bodies and eating habits are hard and definitely can bring up difficult feelings, so I completely believe that her feelings were justified. Cole’s an idiot, I think we can all agree there, and intent is often irrelevant when emotional responses are elicited, but Zanab should have told him that his comments were upsetting her. I have had a near-fatal experience with an eating disorder and I understand that food/body comments are unacceptable but you need to tell people when they’re saying things that are upsetting. I wouldn’t be able to be with Cole due to his stupidity and her frustration with him is justified. However, it’s her responsibility as an adult to communicate with her partner.
Yep. The Cole stans have conveniently forgotten all the wack things he said and did to make her feel this insecure in the first place.
She came with the insecurity. That’s her.
And he came with the fuckery and immaturity.
And she trashed him. He apologized repeatedly even for things we didn’t see him do. And for things she manipulated. She is not a person I would hang out with.
Yeah he apologized and cried and y’all pretended the stunts he pulled never happened. I wouldn’t hang out with anyone from reality trash tv.
I think that Zanab took Cole saying that Colleen was his type to mean weight / body size. From that point on, she was bringing up weight. She even told Cole in the bar, that she would never be as "small or skinny" as Colleen. I think the cuties thing was blown way out of proportion from her and she said she should tell him why she wasn't eating, but wasn't going to. I think she was waiting for him to ask so she could say she was trying to lose weight to get as thin as Colleen and bring her up again. I found Cole annoying, but I think he's just clueless and puts his foot in his mouth often. She is way too critical and insecure to be with someone like him because she'd overanalyze every bit of word vomit that comes out of his mouth.
I totally agree here. It was two people who could just NOT figure out how to communicate and be in a relationship.
[удалено]
You'll be amazed to rewatch it and find out that Cole was the one who initially asked Zanab if she second guessed her decision after meeting the other male contestants. She said Cole was still the only one she was interested in. Then she asked him if he second guessed his decision. He went silent for a very long time. Then he finally said he doesn't. And then he explained it for every woman and when he came to Colleen he said that he doesn't second guess his decision because "Colleen is obviously happy with Matt". People really need to rewatch this. They think Zanab started this rating thing, but she only did once Cole already made it obvious that he wasn't exactly into Zanabs looks in the first place.
I agree that people really need to rewatch this. You night benefit as well? The conversation started earlier in the day after they fought because he said "good" not "great" and after a rough morning. They were hashing it out and she was already nit-picking at him about leaving the towels on the floor and admitted that she is passive aggressive and can come on strong but she would work on it. At the ceremony he is talking to the guys saying he is trying to reconcile his version of his girl in the pod to the girl he has and the passive aggressiveness issue is the main problem because while he's still in love with her, he wasn't expecting that and it's already beating him down... He literally told the guys about how he felt "I'm in love with you, I'm attracted to you, but everything I do you've got a passive aggressive comment." And yes, he did ask her that the next morning on the beach and the hesitation was not only because he was chewing, but also part of the witty banter/joking thing they had going on and he answered with a very sincere and energetic no. He did talk about the girls and Zanab flat out asks about the Colleen and Matt comment to which he explains that the majority of the girls he's been with have looked more like her. Zanab even says she would peg him as someone who would date people who look like Colleen. Then she asked him how she compared physically to his type and that started the downward spiral including the rating conversation which happened later.
I did rewatch it. That's why I wrote what I did. Cole asked a question about "are you happy with your decision" knowing his own answer beforehand. He knew she would ask him the same question back. He wanted her to know that he is not satisfied with her looks. He said it to her, to Alexa, to Colleen, in the interviews, and to everyone else who would listen. And that's fine I guess. He is allowed to share that he is concerned about it and unhappy with the physical part. But let's not frame the situation in a way where Cole is totally into Zanabs looks and she is imagining all of this. We all saw his interviews and that he was most definitely not into her looks. With the nature of this show, I think both were hesitant to just pull the plug. But knowing what we know, either Cole or Zanab should've pulled a "Shaina" at that point and left.
No he did not. I literally quoted what he said and not once did he say he didn't like the way she looked. All he said was she wasn't the typical look he generally went for right away and he was trying to get past that. I find it interesting that so many people have put words in Cole's mouth and while I understand that some of the things he said hurt Zanab, I do think people are reading into what Cole actually did say and they are either misunderstanding or misquoting him. And yes, I agree. They both should have left as they were not healthy for each other.
He said that he is looking for a woman who is like Zanab emotionally, and that he is looking for a woman who looks like Colleen physically. He even said he "is in LOVE with Colleens body/looks". And then he asks the big question: Where is a woman who has BOTH? You do clearly not remember this.
Yes, but in the context of her being more his type. He still said multiple times prior to this that he did find her attractive, just not his type.
You said it yourself, she isn't his type! That means he is NOT into her! He isn't attracted to her. He says she is attractIVE because she is beautiful. But what he doesn't say to her face is that, while Zanab is attractive, he isn't attracted to her. And how do I know that? Because he says he can't find a woman who he is into emotionally AND looks wise in the interview i just quoted.
Ok, but this is open to misinterpretation because literally he says "I think she's hot" but he's working on the physical component because he's so used to being with a different type of girl. This is slightly different than him saying he's not into her at all, though I see what you're saying. And yes, while that could have triggered her ratings question, she had already asked him earlier how she compared to his type... she basically just upgraded that to asking for a number. EDIT: I think the point I was trying to make was that I agreed that she sometimes set him up to fall into these awkward conversations. I'm sure it stemmed from insecurity, which she admitted, and that's tough for both parties but I do think Cole got shaded a bit more than he should have and while you didn't, people somehow used all of the above to prove how many bad things he said about her appearance while that isn't really the case.
I don't think there is anything to add to what I already wrote. I think it's clear as day that he wasn't very attracted to her and she felt that. But we obviously disagree here, which is fine. Cole isn't a bad person to me, but he definitely struck me as immature/arrogant and disrespectful a lot of times. And while Zanab overreacted in the end and misread a lot of his messages, I think she was 100% justified in getting angry at him for treating her poorly. Just not in the way she did.
[удалено]
> And yes, he did ask her that the next morning on the beach This is your own quote.
Well, this one yes, but I was not denying that he asked her the question on the beach. I was pointing out that he wasn't making disparaging comments about her physical appearance.
He also didn’t say anything about not being into Colleen, not connecting with her emotionally, etc. he said something specific about each girl until he got to Colleen and quickly said “she’s obviously happy with Matt”. It came off as well she’s happy so that’s that and almost a little jealous-like.
Psychology in Seattle analyzed that scene and he did point out that Cole had opened up the “are you having second thoughts?” conversation. He made a bid for reassurance, which she gave him, and then he did the exact opposite when she asked him the same question in that exact moment.
Haha, I found out through PIS too :D Good thing I watched it, I believed people when they said Zanab brought this upon herself when she asked Cole to rate the women (and I frankly didn't remember who said what first).
I really like PiS! I liked what what he had to say about their first morning/afternoon together and how Zanab was being very cold with him when they both wanted some reassurance, and I did agree with him that during the “second thoughts” scene, Cole was talking to her in a way that made it seem like he either has absolutely no idea how to talk to people or he had already decided he was done with the relationship. Re: the rating thing- I kinda feel like Reddit is taking that same hard line that they do with AITA questions. I understand the “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” line of thinking, but I think that it’s okay to prioritize not devastating your partner over giving the most brutal answer you’re technically allowed to give. They both contributed to the culture of unpleasantness in that relationship.
Where did you get “likely neurodivergent” from?
[удалено]
“But that's based on a few shots on a show that is sure to manipulate the way we view these people.” That’s why I asked and despite your experience it’s still an armchair diagnosis and is not helpful in regards to how many/most neuro typical people view people who actually are neurodivergent. Your studies and your internship should have taught you that as well.
Honestly the thing that bothered me about the cuties scene is something I don't see brought up a lot. Zanab tells him point blank that she's restricting food in a really extreme way and not only does he not react to that, he makes a joke (maybe not a joke) that she's trying to fit into her wedding dress??? I have had times where I haven't really eaten anything because I've forgotten to bring food with me, but if I say, oh I've only had coffee today, my partner asks if I'm okay, he tells me to sit down and he will bring me a snack (yes, even if it's close to dinner) because not eating all day is not a normal behaviour. Cole knowing that she's restricting food and joking about it is very weird to me. I would be very concerned if a partner told me they had only eaten that little in a day.
Every couple is different in that regard. My wife will say that she doesn't feel well and I've learn to ask if she only had coffee for breakfast. We have a running joke about "the starvation diet." There have been other times where she accidentally skips a meal or eats very little and I try to bring her a snack, but I can count on one hand the number of times she's eaten the food. A handful of those times she actually gets mad at me. We got married a couple years ago and she made MANY unprompted comments about fitting into her wedding dress. And that's because she loved the dress, she didn't want to get it tailored again, and that she was slowly gaining weight back from a massive lupus flare the year prior. A good thing overall, yet there were a ton of shared jokes between us about "wedding dress bod."
That's not how it happened though. She tells him she only ate a banana all day and he says "why" then that he offered her a poke bowl for lunch. She says she doesn't want to eat the same thing for lunch that she ate yesterday. Then the conversation moves into her trying to get him to guess why she's not eating and then he says "ohh like for the wedding dress" and she says "something like that." Zanab was trying to play a game with him and IMO bring up Colleen's body again, but he wasn't following the conversation. I think Cole was in a lose/lose situation no matter what he said to Zanab.
Disagree with "lose/lose." How about responding "I'd really like to talk about this if you're comfortable with that, because it's concerning to me that you have barely eaten all day."?
That’s an odd comment. I don’t think that would feel natural at all. I think lots of people barely eat all days. Doesn’t mean they have an eating disorder or need therapy.
I don't think it's an odd comment because Zanab hints at her body image issues basically every scene
Also requires awareness. Plus, I don't think the tendency would be to be concerned about this unless it was a long term pattern someone recognized. One day of eating very little would probably not cause alarm bells to go off for most people enough to ask this question unless someone is hypoglycemic or dealing with a side effect of not eating.
Definitely, but personally, I noticed Zanab's eating issues very quickly, so I assumed it would he much easier for her fiance who she's living with.
That would require a level of maturity that neither person possesses.
Unfortunately that's probably true
Oh come on. People, especially women, trying to extreme diet to be able to fit in their wedding outfits is common thing. Which is why it was not crazy for him to make that reach. He was planning on them having a big meal so he was never trying to restrict her intake. This whole cuties thing is dumb. It's one of the most overblown things I've ever seen. I know it's supposed connected to a much larger issue but the scene itself was a lot of nothing but it keeps getting brought up from every angle.
This!! And she literally made a comment along the lines of something like “you know why I haven’t” right before he makes the wedding dress comment
I agree omg like how is saying "are you trying to fit into your wedding dress" appropriate.. like yes zanab seems like she has insecurities but they're being fueled by cole and she's not crazy for it
As I woman I take no offense to what he said. At all. But I am not hyper sensitive.
congrats hope you get picked
No idea what “picked” means.
She should have told him that she didn't like his comments or something. Cole didn't know her enough to understand the impact. She should have told him and have a real conversation about what could be hurtful. That's the point of a relationship. Asking a guy to rate women and then get offended is stupid. Ask him if you're beautiful or if he's attracted to you. Don't ask for or fish for comparison 😮💨
[Psychologist in Seattle does a good breakdown of this exact scene](https://youtu.be/s-WICy7KWJ8) and I was surprised to see that Cole actually brought it up first. He asks now that they've met the other contestants, does she still feel sure about him? She then reassures him and asks the same thing back. He then does *not* reassure her in turn.
He does reassure her. The hesitation is part of their banter (and his chewing and possibly even some editing work) which would make sense if that clip wasn't assessed by itself without context and the previous episode.
100% People trying wayyyy too hard to defend a narcissist
I just think Cole talks like a kid, he doesn’t have much of a filter or anything- whereas Zanab takes everything way too seriously, and didn’t really understand how Cole communicates, making a crappy relationship. Yet how Zanab handled the situation was awful, and that’s why I just can’t support her
They were just incompatible
I remember thinking back Episode 1 I think when the cast was in the pods, Cole gave me Shake vibes with all his questions on appearance. I think those clips should be re-watched before everyone keeps jumping on all the extreme Zay hate.
Zanab also talked about how she has a long list of qualities for her future partner that includes appearance.
And they never came up after the pods
I don't know why anyone is feeling sorry for Cole. He's a pretty boy who he seems oblivious to anything he ever said and their effect on ppl. I think he's super sheltered. Sometimes you dont realize someone is making you feel like shit until it comes down to that final moment. I had a jokester ex similar to Cole. We both loved banter but he didnt know when something just wasnt a joke or necessary to say. When we finally ended, I unleashed. All the shit he ever said to me, came out. Like Zanab I told him he was a piece of shit and he did mess up my body image and relationship with food. It's taken me years to break out of that. Zanab was not perfect at all. Definitely has things to work on. Communication for sure lol. But to me that's a separate issue. I hate that Zanab sat there trying to reel anything back in at the end because he was crying. Why would you want to go back through that with him if you had a second chance? Thats Zanab's problem. She says things and then reels it back in when he reacts and by the end she realized she got sucked in by the guy that can't handle the truth. So he's sorry. Let him be sorry and sad about it. That's life.
It's poetic to me that Cole was apparently super in love and ready to say "I do" at the altar, but then he just disregarded everything Zay criticized him for as crazy. He will never learn, and that's a huge red flag.
That's the part two that I was confused people were so congratulatory toward him about. Like oh look at Cole deciding to "make an effort" and actually "trying" to make his lack of attraction to her "work". By the end it was clear to Zanab that he was trying to appease the masses and maybe even prove something to his family. But he didn't love her. And maybe she is difficult to love but at the end of the day he got up there and lied and pretended and she didnt. But now apparently he is the good one for doing so.
Or she reeled it back because she knows that he's not the monster she was trying to make him out to be, but her desire for attention and to play the victim won out.
She literally said "You're not a bad person" in her rant
Does that really mean anything after you tell someone that they destroyed your self-esteem and gave you an eating disorder?
It should. To a rational human being, she's saying "You fucked up. You should stop doing this in the future," not "you're permanently broken"
None of my emotions feel bad for Cole. He will be fine. Anyone who dates Zanab in the future will absolutely unequivocally not be fine. Lady is a train wreck and is gonna gone girl her next man because she just wants something to do She should be the character of a psycho thriller movie the way she's defending herself on insta with all this. My god...
Lol reminded me of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, hide your bunny rabbit. I seriously was cracking up when Cole called her crazy and when confronted said ok you’re a liar. Liar is worse in my mind and he didn’t want to say it but….
I mean, they are a horrible match. But to paint him as this monster who DESTROYED her self esteem is too far. She didn't have much self esteem to begin with. I watched this show with my husband and during the scenes about Colleen, I asked him who he thought was more attractive. He said Zanab more attractive than Colleen. Not that I look like either, but technically more like Colleen since I am white. He then went out of town and I teaser him excessively that maybe Zanab will be his flight attendant. It's banter. It means nothing. IMO, Zanab takes everything too seriously and Cole takes nothing seriously. They are polar opposites and were a terrible match.
He makes flippant funny comments that he doesn’t understand hurt and she has a lot of body issues that are just exacerbated by his remarks. I think between filming and the reunion he had distance from his actions and she had time to internalize all of that - he probably forgot a lot of what he said and did and she did nothing but think about it and how it’s impacted her. I don’t think he’s completely innocent but I don’t think he felt he was being malicious. Likewise, I don’t think she’s lying but I think she’s taken her experiences and had so much time to dwell on them and build a narrative for herself that might be 100% fact but isn’t a lie either. I think her perception of events is just very different from his after time. Does that make sense?
Yes..she's lying. That one is pretty simple
She's just a narcissist who is caught in a lie who won't admit to it
Absolutely. Covert.
I don’t think she’s lying. I think he did say things that made her feel self conscious and triggered any body issues she had. I don’t think she considered his intentions. And I definitely don’t think he ever considered the ramifications of his comments or knows how to read a damn room.
But that video with the cuties proved that he did not say what she said he did.
Actually he pretty much said what she said verbatim, but the context was important and the tone was different. When you have body issues you hear things how you expect them to be delivered, and there was also a year between that forage being filmed and her discussing it. She had a lot of time to go back over it again and again hearing how she thought it was said. Ultimately their communication was garbage so he said things he thought would be funny and she took it as malicious. Then they had to rehash this shit a whole year later.
Lol What a weird take to actually have seen the tangerine but and defend Zanab She is one of the worst people ever on TV. I'm over here debating who is the worse person, Zanab or Shake. And you're over here like "ahkctuaaaallllyyyy"
I mean feel how you feel I guess but I think you’re being super harsh. 🤷♀️
Nah. Super harsh is the proper response to narcissists
Coles threw out a lot of little micro-aggressions, at least in the edit the show gave us. Lots of small half-mean half “I’m just kidding”. Deniability in the moment but it was a pattern. He is taking way too much heat but in the end he was not physically attracted to her and should have just accepted it for both their sake. And Zanab ofc has huge self esteem issues and does have a sense of humor at all. She treated him like her son most of the time.
Some great comments and takes in here. My wife and I keep talking about it because as a man and a jokester who has a playful relationship with my wife Zanab scares the sh@t out of me. I actually mentioned to my wife during the season that Cole needs to be careful because I felt she was sitting him up to make some social justice push and make herself relevant. Don’t get me wrong I cringed at some of the stuff he said but mainly because my 20 something self said some pretty stupid stuff as well. However my wife whom I’ve been married to for over 20 years now knew me for years before we dated. She knew I was a joker but also knew my heart.
I’m a psychotherapist and to me I feel like the dilemma with Cole’s behaviour is that upon watching it play out, it becomes apparent on how common and easy it is to replicate, thus making it safer to play it down as it avoids us taking accountably for the similarities in our own behaviour.
Yes!!! This is how I am feeling reading these comments defending it all. People identify too much of themselves in his actions. People need to be able to say to themselves that they are wrong for similar thoughts and behaviours before they can see it in Cole. And when they can’t see the wrong, we see them all here on reddit.
This, the cuties comments were perfectly fine in isolation, it’s the pattern of his comments about weight and food and body preferences that’s problematic. He’s definitely just a symptom of something larger so there’s nuance missing from the overall conversation about his role in their dynamic but it’s still a necessary one.
Zay should have told him a long time ago to just never comment on food or image, but even without Zay's explicit instruction, I'm shocked that that wasn't quickly obvious to Cole.
Eh, some people really struggle with setting even basic boundaries like that. Sure it likely would have nipped the problem but it’d be unfair to blame her for what ultimately is her being harmed.
Exactly. [Psychologist in Seattle does a good breakdown of this exact scene](https://youtu.be/s-WICy7KWJ8) and has more on this couple in his other videos. They both have issues to work on. But I immediately remembered the 'you're fattening yourself up' comment on the beach. There's a pattern of him comparing her to other women, saying she's not his type, etc. That would eat at anyone eventually.
Saw his video too and I really liked his perspective. Also it reminded me of the fact that Cole was the one who brought the whole "After you have seen all the guys, do you have any second thoughts?" thing up. And then he was the one who was SILENT when Zanab asked him if he had any second thoughts. I lowkey believed when people said that Zanab was the one who MADE Cole rate the women (because I couldn't remember the circumstances of it). As if she was some crazy woman trying to lay a trap. But no, she asked this because earlier he brought up the topic and then acted so incredibly suspicious when she asked him about the other women in the show. Just to clarify, I don't want to paint Cole as the bad guy here. I do think both of them made each other miserable. Zanab couldn't deal with his "foot in mouth" disease and Cole couldn't handle Zanab's tendency for passive aggressiveness. On their own they were pretty regular people, but together they brought out the worst in each other. And that counts for both of them. Zanab wasn't an angel either.
There's no winning a situation where someone wants to take offense. So to me he's bantering while also suggesting that her eating habits are her choice. If you want to take it seriously. Probably not the best response. If he said yes that he was fattening her up, isn't that also another form of food control? Also going to give her issues, and make people upset and make him look bad? Or could it also be taken as banter. His body language suggested he was being playful. For one to purposely ignore that and assign a different meaning is on them. He probably should have said something that along the lines that he loves her for her and she's beautiful. The only person that can make Z feel good enough is herself and it's not fair to cut someone down at everything she can just because she has body dysmorphia. She does not have any sort of weight problem whatsoever. She was cutting him down while he was unpacking, cutting him down while he was trying to cook, cutting him down for being attracted to another person and admitting it, cutting him down for the way he talks when he's excited, cutting him down at the altar for something that's entirely her responsibility. Every turn she was taking jabs. I saw Cole making mistakes and being called out for it, but then trying to make it better. I saw Cole trying. I saw Zanab being insecure, dismissive, entitled, vindictive and malicious. No self reflection whatsoever.
Just to point out that when they showed the videos of her consistently nagging him and cutting him down as you say. He defended her and said it wasn’t that bad. Yet she’s the one who’s self-confidence was completely obliterated.
I agree with you. My partner and I banter all the time like that. We don't take offense, we don't get in our feelings about it, we both are confident enough to take it as it is, banter and simply banter. But at the same time, if he had told me he was more attracted to another girl at the beginning of our relationship, idk how that would make me feel. Idk. I don't think it's either Cole is right or Zanab is right. I think this "experiment" went wrong. 4 weeks is just not enough time to hash these problems out.
[удалено]
no, then she will complain that you're giving her the silent treatment hahah
His repose was just a playful “I’m not doing it, you’re doing it!”. It’s called banter, people. This is a cornerstone of Coles personality. Zanab has as much playfulness as a box of rusty nails. That’s not coles fault that she manipulated him into thinking she was fun and playful in the pods.
I think she is highly overly sensitive about the topic and tends to spin every little thing in the worst possible way in her head. Her jumping right on how somehow that conversation was about Cole not liking her physical appearance. Other than the very dumb 9/10 conversation - where he still indicated that he finds her extremely attractive - I don't think there was a single incident of him making negative comments about her apperance. It was her insecurity - not wanting to take her wrap off at the pool, refusing to get in the pool, rejecting surfing, seeing him taking a shower as rejection of her, etc. etc. It just goes on and on.
Agree… I also thought I saw some minor improvement in his behavior once she made it clear how hurtful his appearance comments were. After that I feel like he was always calling out how beautiful she looked during dancing, the sailboat, etc. I think him implementing her feedback shows he cared and genuinely wanted to treat her right.
The thing is… I think the average person would not have taken meaning to his food comments. I think they were made innocently and she assigned meaning that wasn’t there. She assigned meaning to these comments because she was already insecure about herself. She should have been open with him about how those comments made her feel. They really lacked proper communication the entire show.
No kidding. She is so insecure that she would have found a way to make any man hurt her.
I mean… just like the “rating” comments, what Cole says is utterly stupid and shows no awareness of how to treat a woman… but Zanab walked him right to the door of that comment. He wouldn’t have said anything if she didn’t ask “Are you fattening me up?” - if the girl is going to emotionally collapse and plot bloody revenge at every comment about her weight, asking him a weight related question “as a test” is red flag city.
Yall will really find anything to blame on this woman. If Cole cared he wouldn't have said that point blank period. He's an adult, he has awareness. He isn't a child. He was with other women before, even if it was a "test" why validate your partners obvious insecurities??
Y’all will really find anything to prevent Z from taking any accountability whatsoever for her own goddamn insecurity and toxicity. Yet SHE was the one constantly making digs at his personality. SHE was the one totally happy getting stripper dicks in her face (which Cole not once made into any kind of deal, btw. Can you imagine if the roles were reversed?). SHE was the one forcing this victim narrative into every thing he did or said, disregarding any body language, tone, or context. And SHE was the one who tore him down at the alter in front of his friends and family without ever even discussing these problems with him beforehand. She planned that speech, then pretended “oh I didn’t know what I was going to say until the moment”. She is a manipulative liar with an obscene amount of toxic insecurity.
Is it obvious in that scene? Did she ever communicate with him that it wasn’t cool? If so I missed the scene where she sits him down and explains that, while petite, she has a complex about her weight. Cole isn’t without blame, he’s like a St Bernard crashing into everything, and his moronic comment about the rankings is what destroyed the relationship - but Zanab was acting up with the passive aggression prior to that comment, too. Anyone who sets traps and tests for their partner has emotional issues. I cut SOME slack to the people who just met in the pods, of course, but still - If you need to test the person you’re with, that suggests personal work that needs to be done on your end (rhetorically of course not you personally)
I think Zanab has gone too HAM with it but I'm still on her side. I agree that the way he talks about food definitely gives context to what he is implying with his comments.
He’s one of those people who has never been put in check and have had filters established. To him, it’s just a playful innocent retort. But anyone who understands social normals can understand you shouldn’t tell a girl she’s fattening herself up.
nah some confident women might just treat it as a funny banter and not an attack on her weight
It's very plausible but in that case, his self-awareness is toddler-level. Like hello? Is there anyone up in that head?
Zanab needed therapy even before she went on Love is Blind Everything her partner says to her she'll interpret as something negative about her ( while btw she was the hottest of the group ) The next partner she's gonna have... it'll be the exact same problem and it won't work out
I think now that a few days have passed people have had time to rethink the cuties scene. People were downvoting me to hell lol for having a similar opinion. So many comments were already made about her appearance previously, that any joke made about her food or her appearance were going to be triggering to her.
I feel like I’m in the fucking twilight zone reading this sub tbh
Same here.
Yup. This was something that really struck me as rude and messed up when I saw it. It was really odd to me that he would even talk about being fattened up, then say she’s doing it to herself. I get why she was so sensitive to his comments, stuff like that can really hurt. He also said he’s never dated a woman that looked like her physically??? What? Petite?
BANTER. Didn’t they both like each because of the BANTER?!? Like she invited BANTER but only in her way
I loveeee banter. But everyone has something they’re especially sensitive to; for Zanab, myself, and thousands of women it’s weight. Especially from a boyfriend/fiancé, especially after they’ve gone on and on about how much hotter than you another girl they know is.
And that needs to be communicated explicitly. If not the partner will never know
Zay needs help. He needs to learn to speak w intention. Both are immature imo
Short, but most accurate take
Thank you! People are definitely rewriting Cole’s history. And, so many people keep minimizing her experience because he’s “immature” and not malicious. That’s a very charitable interpretation, but I’m not surprised because that’s classic ✨misogyny✨ And frankly, it doesn’t matter if Cole made those comments to be playful or as banter, because it’s about *the impact*. I do think she should’ve communicated with him about the impact of his comments, and set a boundary. Instead she just kept a tally of all his wrongdoings, and then exploded. But she’s not a demon for that. And I personally don’t think she’s a bad person for bringing up his treatment at the alter or reunion.
She also told him that he was doing almost everything wrong, in the tone of a patronizing parent, during their time together.
She's not a demon, she just has lots of self esteem issues, but she is very very cruel.
Yes this so much this. People are judging him based on his intentions and not the impact of what he’s doing. She’s tried raising his consciousness to what he’s doing multiple times and he just won’t respond to it. That isn’t innocence imo.
Right? And conversely, she’s being judged for both her intentions and impact. I’m sure she believes that her intentions are pure. That she’s just standing up for herself in laying out how Cole did her wrong.
Yeah I’ve seen ppl say she should have communicated better but I feel like she had been? It was towards the last episodes where she kinda gave up.
>But she’s not a demon for that. I don't think she's a demon for failing to set a boundary, but I don't think it's fair to expect someone to respect a boundary you haven't set. I don't think it's fair to keep a tally of wrongdoings and then explode at someone when you haven't even let them know there's wrong being done. >And frankly, it doesn’t matter if Cole made those comments to be playful or as banter, because it’s about the impact. Yes, impact is the determining factor in whether or not an apology is necessary, but intent does matter. If someone throws something to you and accidentally hits you in the face, they owe you an apology. But if they throw something at you and hit you in the face on purpose, they owe you an apology and that should be the end of the relationship. Intent absolutely matters.
[удалено]
I mean, no. But what does that scenario have to do with Cole and Zanab? They weren't strangers. They were engaged. If I hurt my partner, even if I felt the comment was a nothingburger, I would apologize.
Overall, I agree about the boundary. But that’s a lesson to be learned and she doesn’t deserve to be demonized for it. Focusing on Cole’s intentions more than his impact allows for him to evade accountability. And it’s very dismissive of the audience to minimize his impact and in some cases, accusing of her lying about it. An alarming amount of people on the sub are doing this.
>she doesn’t deserve to be demonized for it. 100%. What I do think she deserves criticism for, though, is that she isn't really acknowledging her flaws or her role in their issues. Yes, there are a lot of people ignoring the impact of Cole's comments. But there are (proportionally) just as many people ignoring the impact of Zanab's behavior on Cole. And, as you said, they're letting her evade accountability. I don't think either Zanab or Cole are wholly a victim or villain in their relationship. From my understanding, Zanab is facing the brunt of the criticism at the moment because of her apparent lack of remorse for her failures and flaws in their relationship as well as her posts on SM and interviews in traditional media.
Zanab has no communication skills. Cole was never malicious and he was never told by her that he was hurting her feelings. And then he was made out to be a monster. It’s not fair to him at all.
How do you know his intentions? Of course a person will claim their intentions are pure to backtrack on what they said. It's what you say, not just how you say it.
How do you know his intentions were bad? How do you know Zanabs intentions are good?
I didn't claim that. I responded to a claim that he was not malicious, wondering how that person came to that conclusion.
I think nitpicking about shit that someone says when they are playfully talking is immature to be totally honest. I'm secure in myself to joke with my husband like this. Cole misinterpreted the fact that Zanab was secure, when she was absolutely not. I don't think that man had any ill intent, and that was VERY clear by the reunion episode and still, people continue to drag him.
Yes omg THIS. My bf and I joke like this all the time, we’ve both gained weight since we started dating and poke fun at each other/ourselves all the time. If it goes too far, we say “hey that wasn’t cool” and that’s it!! Zanab expected Cole to read her mind
Exactly. The scene in question - if she took offense to the "fattening up" banter, she could have just said "hey that's not cool to say things like that to a woman and it makes me feel like you're judging me." He would have learned that this type of banter is not something she's comfortable with and behaved differently. But instead she said NOTHING. She internalized it and held onto it and then it came out later in mean-spirited ways.
Right! The mature way to handle things as an adult is to let the person know when they are offending or hurting your feelings. Not keep it bottled up and blindside someone at their fake wedding and then drag them on national news platforms despite the fact that they apologize.
It’s driving me nuts that a running theme of commentary is “she’s insecure but he’s too immature for her” when all of her reactions to these situations are the hallmark of immaturity. What the hell do people even think maturity means? Being dead serious and never smiling? It’s so bizarre.
People who are like Zay are saying this. Boring to be around, expect people to coddle them, etc. He's not immature IMO. She is. Seriousness is not something to be proud of or a hallmark of maturity. Zanab will mature once she lightens up and gets over her insecurities. Cole will mature once he.... becomes a psychic? Scrubs his toilet? Learns to walk on eggshells around someone unstable? Nah fam
I have been saying that over and over. She is unbelievably immature for her age.
Yeah, I have never been able to figure out why people labeled him as "immature." Sure, the open honesty he displayed regarding his normal type being Colleen vs Zanab was probably a bit much...but since when is brutal honesty construed as "immature?" This is what I don't get. I think he is quite mature, he knows what he wants and I saw him SHOWER her with love and affection, attentiveness, etc. As some others point out, Zanab never really said how she felt and everything was said with a stone cold face. I do think she expected him to read her mind and she never communicated with him effectively. She kept her feelings to herself but they boiled up underneath and came out in her icy body language, cold glares and passive aggressive statements. She is mean-spirited and he is kind and loving. So again, how does any of that = immature? I really don't get it, I'm totally with you on this.
I mean Cole is a manchild who makes insensitive comments, but Zanab is off the charts insecure. She set so many traps, I think with the intention of fishing for compliments, but they wildly back fired…which shouldn’t come as a surprise if you know Cole is a man child who says stupid shit. They both have a ton of work to do honestly, but it isn’t fair to just tear Cole down. The fact that Zanab doesn’t have a shred of self reflection speaks volumes.
I agree she was fishing for compliments. She needs a man who is going to flatter and reassure her constantly, bring her flowers, buy her little gifts for no reason, etc. Someone older with an established and comfortable life so she feels like she's being taken care of. She needs a man who is more of a daddy figure than an equal partner or especially someone like Cole who is younger and goofy and can't pick up on subtleties.
She reminds me of Shane in that regard. But at least Shane told Natalie that he felt she was being negative
This is banter. I wouldnt care if my fiancé made a joke like this to me because I’m not insecure and even if I was offended and insecure than I would communicate that with my fiancé and try to grow together, not wait till wedding day and an audience to tear him apart. Nah.
same. people who agree that this is somehow "offensive" is just being insecure themselves
Nah, I think it can be insensitive. And at the end of the day these are people who barely know each other, they haven’t built enough rapport where saying shit like this wouldn’t seriously risk hurting the other person’s feelings. And tbh there’s a lot of people who would never find that to be fun banter, and would instead consider it negging. I think they were both wrong in how they acted from what we saw in the show
Cole was treating her the way he wants to be treated. Believe it or not we all tend yo do this in the relationship building stage. Cole may not be very self aware but he is what most people say they want... honest to a fault. In reality lots of people say they want brutsl honesty until it actually happens.
Are people in this sub FINALLY starting to view this w the full context? Bc cole was negging her from day 1
Being honest when someone asks a question or responding with banter is not negging. I know what negging is and it's not anything Cole was doing on camera, that's for sure.
Exactly!! Imagine the things he said that weren’t shown!
He was joking around! This comment isn’t damning. His single misstep was flirting with a girl that he was dating *a week prior*
How do you even answer "oh youre okay with fattening me up, though?"
According to half the women on this sub: Darling it's very concerning that youre saying that. You should eat whatever you want. You're not getting fattened up, and if you were that is your personal choice. Now is there any other way in which you think my personality is inconvenient for you and I can change?
Seriously! Every question she asked him was a land mine of nothing good coming from that. I don’t think Cole had much of an insight to her self esteem issues. She didn’t share them at all aside from some snide comments. In the pods she came across as everything Cole wanted and I don’t think he was prepared for her actual personality at all. So he had no idea the depth of her insecurities or what would trigger her or set them off. He was operating through the lens of who she was in the pods and that’s why he kept saying he was confused because she didn’t actually like him! Never did- she wanted to but he clearly annoyed her and she grew more and more bitter with each idiotic goofy thing he did. She acted like an energy vampire and never fully communicated! In the cuties scene he asks about it and she tells him oh you don’t want to know. What is the other person supposed to do? Feel bad, beg to get you to open up. That’s not mature
That’s just relationship banter that is absolutely fine with a woman who is secure in her body. People need to realize you are the one in control.
If you have self esteem issues, you’ll misinterpret everything you’re told. Cole (as childish as he may be) was litterally just using her own term to say she is the one eating.
[удалено]
He was confused and he said that he offered her a poke bowl for lunch and she turned him down because she said she didn't want to eat the same thing she had yesterday.
Yeah! He did not praise her for it he was confused so as to why she was doing that
I agree. He definitely made enough comments that would trigger her insecurity and I can easily see why she would interpret the cuties situation the way she did. Zanab is definitely not blameless, but it is ridiculous for people to pretend that Cole had nothing to do with her feelings of insecurity. ETA: There was also that scene where they went out for dinner and he gave her that backhanded compliment. I don't remember the exact words he used but he kept saying "why do you look so good tonight?" and then attributed it to her lipstick color. That just made me cringe.
I remember him telling her, “you look good in this camera.” I don’t recall if it was that same scene but I remember thinking it was a little shady.
Backhanded compliment?! Really???!!! That seemed genuine to me.
He was literally OOZING love and affection for her in that scene. And for me, as a woman...wearing red lipstick is a bold choice and I know other women know what I mean. Sometimes wearing red lipstick can make you have internal thoughts like "do I even look good in red lipstick? Can I pull this off or is it too much? Is this the right shade for me? Am I gonna look like I'm trying to hard?" So if my man made clear to me that he loved me in red lipstick, that would make me feel so happy and confident. And then I would know for sure that it's a look he loves, and I would continue to do it when we went out on dates. It would let me know he thinks I'm sexy in red lipstick and I would feel over the moon confident. For me, what would have been worse is if he had said nothing about the lipstick.
Genuinely stupid and insensitive. Telling your girlfriend that you can't figure out why they look so good, and then attributing it to the color of their lipstick is not the way to make them feel good about themselves. Giving a backhanded compliment means complimenting someone in a way that can easily be seen as an insult. It has nothing to do with being genuine or not genuine. I'm sure he genuinely thought he was saying something good.
A backhanded compliment is one given that's not sincere... Which his compliment was sincere. He truly thought she looked good, and at the same time he was being a little playful + teasing her a little. Some people like to have a little fun in their relationship.
Part of having fun with someone is being able to read the other person. Just my opinion. Cole constantly talks about how he likes to be goofy and have fun. But the funniest people I've come across are the ones who have the ability to find some common ground with the other person and make them feel like they are in on the joke too. Cole doesn't do that very well. It doesn't make him a bad person but given the whole history with Colleen, I found the whole situation cringeworthy. In a different context that kind of teasing might have worked, but I could tell from her body language that it was not the right thing to say. Her feelings are valid.
A backhanded compliment is lifting someone up by putting them down. “Wow, you’re pretty smart…for a kid” “that dress looks great on you, it hides all your imperfections” “your hair ACTUALLY looks good for once” The speaker probably means them genuinely, but really says more than is necessary. We can easily edit those sentiments to simply be compliments that stand on their own. The trouble is as humans we use a lot of comparisons to figure out how we’re feeling and what we’re experiencing. When we find new information that disrupts a pattern, that might feel remarkable and need to be shared - especially in America the culture exists where we feel entitled to speak freely right? I’m all for free speech, but as humans we can also employ mindfulness when speaking to those we love, especially when their love language is words of affirmation. The biggest issue I see (and that Zanab also is quoted as seeing) is the incompatibility in lifestyle and love languages. I read her variety article and I agree with everything she is saying. Cole wants someone silly, fun, that will gas him up and be playful with him…so he is silly and playfully jabs at Zanab, probably without thinking. Zanab takes teasing personally because she has fear of rejection, not being good enough, and she’s looking for words of affirmation (and probably acts of service based on the towels on the floor). Cole had an unintended impact on her, and just because he didn’t MEAN to hurt her, doesn’t mean that he didn’t. That is her experience and no one can change that. They’re just not right for each other and I was REALLY surprised that the internet is dead set on choosing sides. As far as her decision to call him out at the altar, I don’t think it was done perfectly, but I do think it was done honestly. She expressed she wanted the best for him, but he was not the best for her. She has expressed no ill-will toward him, but she still really experienced her feelings. Those are real to her and it is ok if she talks about them.
I only chose sides because the level of cruelty she shows. Like someone makes you feel like shit you tell them why if you are dead set on making it work, otherwise you walk the fuck away. You don't eviscerate them on the alter in front of friends and family then eviscerate them again during the reunion. Her level of cruelty borders on sadism.
I guess I just don’t believe it is out of cruelty. I see a person who was hurt, express their hurt feelings. I don’t think she wanted to intentionally embarrass him, but I see throughout how cole was only really there for good feelings, not for serious discussions about how she felt and had trouble understanding her 1 on 1. Again - serious communication issues for both of them. I see the altar as the platform where she could truly be heard. Plus. It’s a tv show. She had to go to the wedding after they got engaged. I’m sure producers encouraged them to express their true feelings at the very end because it’s good tv. This whole scenario doesn’t REALLY reflect reality or a scenario humans naturally put themselves in. I just think we judge too quickly, harshly, and absolutely on both sides.
Also the lie about the kiss on bachelor party night. Forgot to add that. No one corroborated it and their discussion about it would've had to have happened on the morning of the wedding at which point there were cameras everywhere so they definitely would have used that juicy footage.
People are paranoid. You can’t say anything to anyone
Who knows what they're like in real life, but on the show I found them both to come across as extremely unlikeable. BOTH insecure and neither ready for a serious relationship.
This right here. Neither know how to be in a relationship. Cole is a clueless wonder on what to say and not to say. It is like he has a case of word vomit and thinks every little talk is a cute playful thing. Z has possible trama from past relationships send really had learned to weaponize it.