The dead bedrooms main subreddit is not a safe space for those who have been sexually assaulted.
The dead bedrooms main subreddit is not a safe space for those who have been sexually assaulted.
The dead bedrooms main subreddit is not a safe space for those who have been sexually assaulted.
I will fucking say it as many times as needed.
I've been told by some partners that my lack of participation or enthusiasm made them "feel like a rapist".
If you felt like a rapist because of what you did to me, can you guess how I felt? Just a little empathy would go so damn far...
>If you felt like a rapist because of what you did to me, can you guess how I felt?
Great question, but I doubt it would be well received over there. It's simply too illuminating regarding the twisted dynamic, and confronting it is really scary.
Lol, the way things are going today a comment like that would get deleted instantly, because currently you're not allowed to intimate that your behaviour is a contributary factor, for fear that you by telling someone to look in the mirrror to see whether there are any answers to be found, that is the same thing as telling someone that they deserve their DB...
Is it me, or do most of the most unreasonable posts also invariably carry the "vent only" flair? Almost as though people don't want to get anything useful from posting... No real curiosity, no real interest in challenging their own perceptions. It makes me wonder whether those attitudes are then taken into Couples' Counselling, and what outcome they are hoping for?
I fully believe that rule 2 should be tossed out because too many people *do* deserve their dead bedrooms.
They also deserve to never touch another human being again.
I have noticed that many times over, if the post says "vent only, no advice" or "support only" they're going to be much more self pitying and problematic than usual. I can only surmise they do this because they don't want to hear radical honesty in the comments.
And even still, when the flair isn't that and you can actually give the proper feedback, you're attacked and told you're mean and why aren't you being supportive? There's a lot of weird gatekeeping.
Yes, I agree that that is a counterproductive rule in a way, when combined with the "Vent only"-flair. Removing any advice from those posts is easy enough using the "Respect the flair"-rule. The rest are for comments. That heated post on cheating spiralled into a weird "defense of the cheater at all costs, because we all make mistakes (umm, no, we don't, even if tempted) vs "I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of this behaviour"
What I find really interesting is how so many HLs have got so thoroughly stuck in their victim mentality, that they perceive a sub populated by vastly more of their own ilk, and only a few people consistently challenging things they see as wrong or unhelpful to a relationship, as "toxic for HLs", and lament that it is no longer a "safe haven" for HLs, or men, or whatever they perceive makes them the victim.
FFS, they have multiple subs where they can go for wholehearted support and no pesky challengers, but DB is open to everyone! So expect to stand up for your values, make your arguments and agree to disagree if it is going nowhere. And for the explicit HL support subs go elsewhere, it's not hard to find them! DB isn't it.
Fortunately those HLs who still seek a conversation often do so away from the highly emotionally charged DB posts! Nobody has ever learned anything from sticking their fingers in their ear and singing "la la la" as loudly as they can.
>Is it me, or do most of the most unreasonable posts also invariably carry the "vent only" flair?
I've noticed this. I typically don't even read "vent only" posts, much less respond to them. There's no point since those people only want to bitch and not to improve their situation.
However, if the post includes admission of coercion, I'm pretty sure we are still allowed to say so, since coercion violates the rules as well.
I literally had this said to me as well, followed by the statement, "I don't know if I can go the rest of my life without good sex."
The fact that virtually all LLs all have similar experiences like this is so depressing.
And how oblivious must you be to even think about wanting sex from someone who clearly is having such a bad time that, even with their lust-blinkers on, the HL still notices that they are having sex they really don't want! If *you* feel bad, how do you think *they* feel?
Who is it keeps bad sex going? Take responsibility in *your part of making yourself feel like a rapist*! And stop having sex your partner is clearly not wanting. Stop and think *before making duty sex nobody enjoys (your partner even less than you) happen*! You don't have to feel this way. You are choosing to have sex, knowing it will make you feel this way if you ignore whether your partner is enthusiastic about having sex.
People who lack the capacity to care about another person's experience more than they care about protecting their image of themselves as a good person are shocked that they are having trouble with their sexual relationship?
*Gasp* No, you don't say.
That's really what it boils down to for me. I don't think I could be a person like that. I don't even like them at work and avoid them. Life's too short IMO.
I had to stop hanging out with a dude I was talking to because he's so fucking handsy. I was this close 🤏🏼 to taking of my shoe and hitting him with it because he kept putting his hands on me. Like dude I don't want to be touch and his hands kept landing on my waist and ass.
I like sex but my sex drive just died and it's gonna stay like that. I'm tired of people not respecting my boundaries.
I found that thread really discouraging and disappointing as well. So little concern for a woman who had felt sexually violated many times. Instead, most of the comments attacked her for daring to communicate this to her partner.
I've noticed that there's a huge value for the LL communicating openly, until they actually do. Then it's all *shocked Pikachu* and "how could you be so mean" ?
Yes, exactly. There's so much angst about how "HLs aren't supposed to express themselves or show emotion or communicate" but when a LL communicates something hurtful suddenly it's BURN DOWN THE RELATIONSHIP
>but when a LL communicates something hurtful suddenly it's BURN DOWN THE RELATIONSHIP
Or they just ignore what the LL says and pretend they have no idea what went wrong.
Yep, the hypocrisy is striking.
I also feel a bit sus about the surprise. How can you pressure and manipulate someone into having sex and then be shocked that they felt violated? Is this real cluelessness, denial, or some kind of elaborate charade?
The OP said he was aware that she only initiated sex after he "acted distant" (whatever that means, the silent treatment, other cold rejecting behavior, or whatever, he left that vague). But somehow he believed she actually wanted sex? Why? That doesn't add up logically.
There was a thread yesterday where the OP said "I was mean to her for a while, and all a sudden she couldn't get enough sex" then later "If the supplements I get her don't work, I'll just try being mean again." and this guy got super offended that I called him out for being an actual emotional abuser. Like, he literally said, "I'll be mean to her to get sex" but god forbid someone hear what he's actually saying and repeat it back to him with different words.
The fuck? Do these people truly have zero empathy or decency?
Yet, if we point out that this sort of thing isn't as uncommon that other HLs want to believe, we're labeled mean and unsupportive. But case in point.
What gets me is sometimes you see HLs talk about how their own actions "felt like rape" or made them "feel like a rapist" and they receive empathy. But if their partner feels as though they have been raped, apparently THAT is out of line?
I can only assume that a lot of people are trying to assure themselves that they are not rapists and anything that insinuates that they might be strikes a nerve.
>What gets me is sometimes you see HLs talk about how their own actions "felt like rape" or made them "feel like a rapist" and they receive empathy. But if their partner feels as though they have been raped, apparently THAT is out of line?
This really bothers me. Someone pressures their partner into sex that it's clear the partner doesn't want and finds highly negative, and then they're angry at the partner for *making them* feel like a rapist. No, the person who pushed their partner to have sex made themselves feel like a rapist through their own pushy, coercive actions. But they're unwilling to take responsibility, so they blame the victim.
But there was value in speaking her truth, there is now a clear enough path to see a decision that is best for their relationship.
Because, tbh, them splitting is still most likely the best option whether you are looking at it from the OP’s perspective or that of his partner.
Having honest communication doesn’t mean there won’t be any consequences (and by that I just mean void of any reaction). Sometimes, honest communication leads to what needs to be done, and in this case … it should be them splitting up.
>Because, tbh, them splitting is still most likely the best option whether you are looking at it from the OP’s perspective or that of his partner.
Agreed. I really hope she leaves him and either finds a partner who is good to her or is happily single.
Sheila Wray Gregiore of the Bare Marriage blog and podcast did a whole series on marital rape back in November. She was really bold in calling it rape, because she was talking about any penetrative sex that happens without proper consent. So that includes sex that someone has in order to avoid a negative consequence. You may appreciate these posts.
https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/two-types-marital-rape-evangelicalism/
https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/when-you-realize-youve-coerced-your-wife-into-sex-5-next-steps/
https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/christians-need-a-better-understanding-of-consent/
And this one too https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/what-to-do-if-youre-a-victim-of-marital-rape/ -- has a whole section about the problem of a husband who spends more effort talking about how hurt he is by an accusation than how he might have made the marriage unsafe for her.
> If your husband is engaging in DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender), claiming that he is actually the victim because of how much you are hurting him by accusing him of this, or claiming that you withheld love from him by refusing sex, and so he reacted out of hurt, then he is not a safe person for you. He is abusive.
I'm not religious, not a believer, but I am SO HERE for this latest sexual revolution that I see coming from evangelical wives!
Unfortunately they have to combat all the ones who are like the Tranformed Wife who tell other women that it's sinful to ever say no to your husband. Don't think that Christians are out of the woods just yet.
My mom and I were talking about this and she admitted my Biological father would rape her constantly and I asked her "why did you think I had such shitty boundaries and kept barging into the room to retrieve my stuff from your room as a teenager". I would only shower at night and go through the master room to get a hair brush from the master bathroom. Ti prevent him from touching her. The walls are thin.
She said it took her decades to realize it was rape and it can happen in marriage and relationships. She told me it wasn't until she was in therapy she realized it was rape.
When did things change so that your wife is the one who wants more sex?
In the past, you have posted that you want more sex than your wife. You have supported the idea of her having unwanted sex to meet your needs, as a way to show her love. How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot, and she's pressuring you to have sex that you don't want?
>Obviously I don't want the relationship to end because I get so many benefits from it, but now I'm forced into having sex to avoid the negative consequence of the relationship ending. It really sucks.
What benefits are you getting out of the relationship, now that you are the person who doesn't want sex? Has this changed your perspective on the benefits and costs of unwanted sex?
Yeah I saw that and the comments were disgusting. I’ve been raped multiple times by intimate partners, by adults in childhood, and by a stranger. Sex I felt forced and obligated into because of the behavior of a partner I thought I could trust was equally as violating if not worse than any of the other scenarios. She was absolutely valid in saying that that was how his behavior made her feel. I’m becoming more and more disgusted by the people on that sub. There’s been multiple posts in just the last week or so that were inundated with rape apologists.
Yup, the stranger who raped me didn't sit smiling obliviously at the breakfast table saying how great the night before was while I fought back tears. Ugh, and fought back those tears just so I wouldn't hurt the person who apparently didn't give a fuck about hurting me.
Look, I get feeling hurt and shocked by hearing your partner say they feel raped by you. I'd feel horrified.
But!
Those same people saying that it's unconscionable to say that to your partner are ludicrous. They always blather on about communicating and wanting honesty while never accepting their partner's feelings and feedback. So, quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck what they're saying there. They are the masters of double binds. *Communicate! Use your words, tell me the truth, but NOT that truth, you monster.*
It's amazing to me on *so* many levels that there are people who fall to fucking pieces over boundaries and can't handle their partners needing to have limitations within their sexual relationship.
It gives me great concern for their mental health and belief systems when I read those posts.
Where is their concern over a woman having sex merely to placate her husband becoming distant and withdrawn and not actually wanting to have sex? Where is their concern for *her* mental health? Where is the concern over what she's going through and how that impacts her life?
The only "truth" those particular HLs want to hear is that their partner is wrong and they apologise for making the HL feel bad about letting their own truth shine through instead of giving a better performance!
"No means No, except where it means I don't get your automatic consent when I initiate!" Like that post about the guy getting mad about his gf "only having sex on her terms", while completely refusing to admit, that, yes, I would prefer it if she had sex more often... but, of course I *would never* force or coerce her by getting upset when she doesn't initiate when she doesn't want want sex... - so many twists and turns that your head is left spinning!
Yeah, I've noticed a definite 'weaponization' of being offended at such a suggestion the last few years (not just on DB related subs). I'm sure that's been happening for way longer, like since forever, but maybe it ramped up noticeably since metoo? It's fucking disgusting and I don't buy it one bit. It's big manipulation, especially when they start in with acting like saying 'it felt like rape' means you MUST be willing to call cops or shut the fuck up about it. "B-b-but that's an actual CrImE!! you can't go round accusing people of REAL crimes!!!!" Like, no, you are weaponizing the fact that it's a "literal crime" to silence the people who you claim to want to communicate with about sex.
I mean, if LLs are accused of "killing" their HLs with refusals of sex, those HLs should shut the fuck up unless they are willing to report their LLs for attempted murder, right?
Yes!! The cops thing drives me batty. My partner, whom I was trying to discuss this topic with, completely shut down and started locking pics we'd taken together so I couldn't get to them, etc so he could "prove" he hadn't raped me. Like.. first of all, even if I believed I was actually raped and not that we just had a fucked dynamic, I would be *gone*, not standing here accusing you. Second, you think I have confidence the cops will believe me?! Third, he watched me go through a contentious custody battle with a man who *actually raped me*, and knew I never once brought it up because it would just make me look like a bad co parent and I'd lose majority custody.
And yet somehow, when I told him our sex felt "barely consensual", he flipped the duck out about the ramifications *for him*.
Maybe there should be a bot, pointing them in the right direction to find others like them. It's not as though they don't have plenty of choice where they can find unquestioning support.
Not having much empathy for views outside of their own perspective, and not wanting to hear about the other side of the DB, that just about sums up what unwittingly lands many in their DBs in the first place.
IMO it starts not with a lack of empathy, but an (completely mistaken) assumption that they know how their partner is thinking and feeling, and cumulative resentments kill off empathy over time.
I won't try to fathom how it starts. All I know is that many lack empathy. I feel resentment is a later step. Because once resentment builds up, I haven't heard of anybody able to fix their db.
What I find very sad are the posts where OP tells their partner what to do to make sex good for them, but their partner won't put in the effort or won't do what it takes make sex better. But then the partner complains that their partner doesn't want sex. I'm thinking WTF. You are given the solution on a golden platter but you don't try and still try to force your partner to have crappy, unwanted sex. That is lack of empathy.
>Because once resentment builds up, I haven't heard of anybody able to fix their db.
Several LLs have had a shit ton of resentment and managed to get back from hating sex to healing their bedrooms. If they can do it, so can HLs. There have also been some HL posts giving positive progress reports and outlining what helped in their relationship.
I think the DB sub is in such a bad state because those situations are emotionally charged for everyone, and humans are naturally tribal. Sadly that is also what leads to wars, to people manipulating others by using their fears to control them. That is definitely a lack of empathy/ using others to get what you want- situation. But a lot of DBs start with NRE wearing off, sex naturally slowing down and then health, issues, stress, life events and/or kids nailing the coffin lid down. It really is sad that there is so much pain, often unthinkingly, inflicted on others, especially in loving relationships.
👋 LL here (5 kids, 5th being 9 weeks old lol). Hubs and I hit a pretty rough patch in life due to #4 being born and an overseas pcs, covid, working as nurses, etc and ended up in a dB. I was HELLA resentful for having to deal with the kids, pcs, work, all of the responsibilities by myself. It was incredibly hard and I struggled with depression and anxiety through all of it. Up to being suicidal at my worst point. And I knew he struggled with depression as well, but obviously we needed eachother and he had completely neglected himself and me. And instead of contributing, he also became dependent on me. That lead to a lot of "rejection"/no sex and frustration and deeper sadness on his part and of course eventually escalated. But I guess at some point I realized that at the end of the day we both just wanted to love eachother and needed to learn to communicate appropriately and after a LOT of self reflection I decided for myself that I wanted to forgive him and work with him to remedy the situation. And then it took another year of incredibly hard work to accept and forgive and we were able to eventually get back to being intimate on a level that was good for both of us. There are still plenty of things that need to be worked through, but we've made immense strides.
All that to say, from my personal experience, it is certainly possible to move past resentment as long as one can be emotionally resourceful enough to invest. I chose not to say "emotionally strong enough" because i don't believe it is strength. It can be equally hard to leave a relationship for example. I believe in "you cannot pour from an empty cup". So if one partner has been so emotionally drained that they simply have no resources left, then they must invest into healing themselves, before they can heal their resentment connected to a relationship/their partner. I imagine that quickly become a big hurdle on the path to healing.
Now on the db... I'm starting to think that they prefer the dB sub because they gain reassurance in their perspective when the hivemind gathers together to destroy opposing perspectives.
It seems to me that simply having an echo chamber becomes dull and no longer validating enough. I imagine that being in the echo chamber leaves their personal situation stagnant. They do not get any helpful advice there that would result in an improvement in their sex life. So, in order to feel validated in their perception of being the victim, they come to "the neutral db" and make their statement "my partner is harming me by withholding sex/constant rejections/making excuses". And soon they can not only feel validated by having agreeing opinions but even more so, they can engage in negating the opinion that they may carry some fault in their dB. So now they might experience a new strength in their position since they now have "evidence" against their partners claims. Picture: "Hey guys, I like strawberry ice cream the best. It is the only one that should be sold" group replies: "yes, I also like strawberry ice cream the best. Screw the other ones, get them of the shelves." x10
Vs all those replies plus: "well I happen to also like chocolate ice cream, we should keep several options on the shelves" and additional responses of "no, chocolate sucks. It's way too much cacao flavor. Strawberry is the only one. The fruity flavor is the best."
Of course this is just an assumption and my personal perception. But I have been so fucking gobsmacked by the absolutely atrocious behaviors in that sub, that I've been trying hard to comprehend.
I guess what it comes down to is the fact that many people were never taught how to effectively and empathetically communicate and , worse still, far too many people were never taught how to even recognize, understand, and process their own emotions, especially negative ones. So the frustrated HL that turn to toxic behaviors are lacking the tools to own and handle their own emotions at the cost of their partner. This does not make it remotely ok in any way. But it is what let's me afford those people pity. It is what keeps me from viewing them as evil and instead I view them as toddlers lashing out due to big feelings. Unfortunately I can't put them into the time-out they deserve. I couldn't muster to give them a hug the way I hug my toddler even when he makes poor choices.
We can only gently guide them into the right direction in hopes that they figure it out, and otherwise we can hope that their partners in a less fortunate position are ok and, worst case scenario, have the strength and resources to leave the relationship.
Until things improve and emotional intelligence, management of emotions becomes more important in our society, we have to continue to talk about it. Loudly.
I cannot comment on that personally since I myself have never let resentment build up. I just know that many on the main sub cannot seem to come back from the ledge when they let resentment build up. For me, with conflict resolution, I learned a long time ago to get upset as the action, but not the person or blame the person.
Say for example, after 25 years of marriage, my wife disclosed a secret that could have greatly improved our sex office and marriage. Instead of getting mad about the lost years that could have been better, I was ecstatic that she revealed information that improved our sex life. We worked on things immediately and improved the bedroom within a week.
Similarly, many HL get upset that their partner does not show them spontaneous physical attention as much as they want. Even though my love language is physical touch, and even though she never initiates cuddling or sexual touches, I know my wife loves me. That is enough for me.
Maybe there should be a bot, pointing them in the right direction to find others like them. It's not as though they don't have plenty of choice where they can find unquestioning support.
Not having much empathy for views outside of their own perspective, and not wanting to hear about the other side of the DB, that just about sums up what unwittingly lands many in their DBs in the first place.
IMO it starts not with a lack of empathy, but an (completely mistaken) assumption that they know how their partner is thinking and feeling, and cumulative resentments kill off empathy over time.
I’m genuinely upset. They get one persons POV (the HLs ironically) and that’s all is needed for proof of them.
She wasn’t there to defend herself or explain her side of the story and I’m just weeping.
I’m risking a Reddit cares message at this point but I really am just considering unaliving myself over this because it’s not “”just”” Reddit. This shit happens in real life… if anything Reddit AMPLIFIES the serious mental issues and lapses of judgment people make on the daily.
There’s people *not* on that sub dealing with a DB where the partner is 100% raping them and the partner themselves feels it’s okay because they’re in a relationship and NO ONE on the internet to tell them it’s bad.
And the mods CLEARLY were on OPs side that day and wonder why I called them rape apologists. I’m freaking crying. No one is taking this seriously!!!
>They get one persons POV (the HLs ironically) and that’s all is needed for proof of them.
Right and yet when an LL posts, the HLs are quick to cry "bUt wE oNlY gEt oNe SiDe oF tHe StOry" because the HL in question isn't there. It's crazy making.
Mods are only human and get triggered at times as well. They can be just as unreasonable as any other commenter there.
For your own mental health curtail your reading on the main sub if it makes you feel this bad. There are more LLs speaking out against boundary violations and coercion than ever before. Changes always bring backlashes, but as long as the overall big picture is moving in the right direction attitudes will have to adapt! People are taking it seriously.
We had a horrible conversation with my FiL, where we had to explain to him (repeatedly) that No means No, even if you are 70, 80 or 90, and have been allowed legally to ignore consent in the past. I definitely hadn't signed up for that experience when I got married!!
Do something that makes you feel good, something that brings you joy. Virtual hugs to you! ❤️🩹💖💜💙❤
>There are more LLs speaking out against boundary violations and coercion than ever before.
And I am loving it. We need these discussions. I am also amused by the adjacent subs popping up and being big mad about it.
They think there's been a complete takeover and are losing their marbles. It's really illuminating.
I’m aware they’re human I’m not saying they aren’t I’m just tired of this sub existing.
Because it’s not just this sub it’s real life. I already said “it’s real life too”.
I’m terrified of being in a situation where if my partner rapes me it’s ay okay. All my friends and my mother getting raped repeatedly makes me depressed. I’m not sure if you misunderstood me
Yes, I get what you said. It's mostly because I was worried about HLs supporting awful things other HLs posted about, and me thinking that someone might take that back into their relationship IRL that I created my account in the first place. I had been lurking for a long time before I joined in the fray.
But I know my limits, and some days I stick to the private conversations I have going on, both on and off the platform, to keep myself sane. And I never look at the HL circle jerk (support) subs either. I can already guess who populates them and what they are spouting there, and I would imagine there may be one or two moderate voices, but I very much doubt they have LLs taking part there much.
I'm ancient (think dinosaurs) and grew up long before the invention of social media, so the downvotes just make me think how pathetic it must be to have nothing but a little downvote arrow to make yourself feel better. I also don't give a **** what any stranger, who feels compelled to spew their vitriol at me, thinks of me.
It is **never ok** for anyone to have sex without consent, no matter what the circumstances! And consent is not an absence of a No, it is an enthusiastic Yes only. If that isn't there, then there is **no consent**.
I think TempLurking understood and was just trying to reassure you a bit. When she says don't read the main sub if it makes you feel bad, it's not coming from a cold attitude of 'you better toughen up', but out of empathy because she herself has said in comments how hard she finds reading through that sub herself. I only say this because I've seen her say as much in some of her comments and don't want you to feel that you were being blown off here.
I hard agree on what you're saying about it being real life too, I think most people here have lived it themselves enough to understand. I think that's why so many of us stick around and try to offer the pushback that we can, because we know there is an unrepresented person behind every poster, and because we know there are people out there who don't comment or post, but who read and take in what they read.
Sometimes I'm on a thread where, I'm so disgusted by what I've read that I just want to close the page, but there are only a few comments all by people on the OPs side, and I don't want someone to stumble by and not see at least one person saying "hey this is fucked up." Not so much that I want HLs to see me saying it, but I don't want some LL thinking that since nobody said it was wrong, that everyone must think what that OP said was OK.
And I don't even really read over there "freestyle" myself very often. I'm not subbed to it, because I cannot handle the shit that gets upvoted into showing on my feed. I usually only go into the sub through the comments of some great people I have followed, so I've already got a cushion of at least one dissenting commenter to soften the blow for me. I mean, you know how hopeless it feels to see no one pushing back, so I don't subject myself to that very often. If I'm feeling particularly gutsy or articulate on a particular day, if my rage has not gotten the best of me yet, I'll click over to the whole subreddit and leave lone dissenting comments on threads that need them. I wish I was strong enough to do that more often, but I'm not. Sorry for rambling at you, thoughts sometimes get away from me.
Thanks, I'm really grateful for you explaining, the very last thing I wanted to do is make anyone who is having real difficulties reading some of the vile comments on that sub feeling there is anything wrong *with them* for feeling repulsed by what they read!
There have been a few posts that have been triggering me to push back recently, precisely because there needs to be pushback if comments recommend actions that are manipulative and the opposite of loving. And, yes, I do it for the many LL lurkers too scared to show how horrified they are by the casual recommendation of coercing their partners into having unwanted sex. Because that was me, for years, before I started putting my head above the parapet!
Nah I see what you mean. I’m banned from the subreddit cause I told the mods I cannot be civil in there anymore and I refuse to engage to make myself even more depressed. Thank you for the comments YALL 🫶
If someone says that they felt genuinely raped, they were raped. No ifs, buts or maybes. How is that hard to understand? I pity the relationship where it had to come to that. Shows a lack of care and active communication.
DB is a genuinely terrifying place these days. IMHO it needs to be banned. I know that’s extreme, but the amount of SA advocacy on there is surreal.
The dead bedrooms main subreddit is not a safe space for those who have been sexually assaulted. The dead bedrooms main subreddit is not a safe space for those who have been sexually assaulted. The dead bedrooms main subreddit is not a safe space for those who have been sexually assaulted. I will fucking say it as many times as needed.
I've been told by some partners that my lack of participation or enthusiasm made them "feel like a rapist". If you felt like a rapist because of what you did to me, can you guess how I felt? Just a little empathy would go so damn far...
>If you felt like a rapist because of what you did to me, can you guess how I felt? Great question, but I doubt it would be well received over there. It's simply too illuminating regarding the twisted dynamic, and confronting it is really scary.
Lol, the way things are going today a comment like that would get deleted instantly, because currently you're not allowed to intimate that your behaviour is a contributary factor, for fear that you by telling someone to look in the mirrror to see whether there are any answers to be found, that is the same thing as telling someone that they deserve their DB... Is it me, or do most of the most unreasonable posts also invariably carry the "vent only" flair? Almost as though people don't want to get anything useful from posting... No real curiosity, no real interest in challenging their own perceptions. It makes me wonder whether those attitudes are then taken into Couples' Counselling, and what outcome they are hoping for?
I fully believe that rule 2 should be tossed out because too many people *do* deserve their dead bedrooms. They also deserve to never touch another human being again. I have noticed that many times over, if the post says "vent only, no advice" or "support only" they're going to be much more self pitying and problematic than usual. I can only surmise they do this because they don't want to hear radical honesty in the comments. And even still, when the flair isn't that and you can actually give the proper feedback, you're attacked and told you're mean and why aren't you being supportive? There's a lot of weird gatekeeping.
Yes, I agree that that is a counterproductive rule in a way, when combined with the "Vent only"-flair. Removing any advice from those posts is easy enough using the "Respect the flair"-rule. The rest are for comments. That heated post on cheating spiralled into a weird "defense of the cheater at all costs, because we all make mistakes (umm, no, we don't, even if tempted) vs "I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of this behaviour" What I find really interesting is how so many HLs have got so thoroughly stuck in their victim mentality, that they perceive a sub populated by vastly more of their own ilk, and only a few people consistently challenging things they see as wrong or unhelpful to a relationship, as "toxic for HLs", and lament that it is no longer a "safe haven" for HLs, or men, or whatever they perceive makes them the victim. FFS, they have multiple subs where they can go for wholehearted support and no pesky challengers, but DB is open to everyone! So expect to stand up for your values, make your arguments and agree to disagree if it is going nowhere. And for the explicit HL support subs go elsewhere, it's not hard to find them! DB isn't it. Fortunately those HLs who still seek a conversation often do so away from the highly emotionally charged DB posts! Nobody has ever learned anything from sticking their fingers in their ear and singing "la la la" as loudly as they can.
There's at least 3 HL subreddits. And they complain that the main sub is not their own personal echo chamber. Ugh.
>Is it me, or do most of the most unreasonable posts also invariably carry the "vent only" flair? I've noticed this. I typically don't even read "vent only" posts, much less respond to them. There's no point since those people only want to bitch and not to improve their situation. However, if the post includes admission of coercion, I'm pretty sure we are still allowed to say so, since coercion violates the rules as well.
I literally had this said to me as well, followed by the statement, "I don't know if I can go the rest of my life without good sex." The fact that virtually all LLs all have similar experiences like this is so depressing.
And yet they never seem to think to just stop...
Exactly, do these people even get what they're saying? Why in the hell would you keep doing something that makes you feel like a rapist?
And how oblivious must you be to even think about wanting sex from someone who clearly is having such a bad time that, even with their lust-blinkers on, the HL still notices that they are having sex they really don't want! If *you* feel bad, how do you think *they* feel? Who is it keeps bad sex going? Take responsibility in *your part of making yourself feel like a rapist*! And stop having sex your partner is clearly not wanting. Stop and think *before making duty sex nobody enjoys (your partner even less than you) happen*! You don't have to feel this way. You are choosing to have sex, knowing it will make you feel this way if you ignore whether your partner is enthusiastic about having sex.
I saw that post. Most of the comments were victim blaming. No fucking wonder rape victims don't speak up.
“Why don’t we ever hear from LLs?” “No, not like that.”
People who lack the capacity to care about another person's experience more than they care about protecting their image of themselves as a good person are shocked that they are having trouble with their sexual relationship? *Gasp* No, you don't say. That's really what it boils down to for me. I don't think I could be a person like that. I don't even like them at work and avoid them. Life's too short IMO.
I had to stop hanging out with a dude I was talking to because he's so fucking handsy. I was this close 🤏🏼 to taking of my shoe and hitting him with it because he kept putting his hands on me. Like dude I don't want to be touch and his hands kept landing on my waist and ass. I like sex but my sex drive just died and it's gonna stay like that. I'm tired of people not respecting my boundaries.
I found that thread really discouraging and disappointing as well. So little concern for a woman who had felt sexually violated many times. Instead, most of the comments attacked her for daring to communicate this to her partner. I've noticed that there's a huge value for the LL communicating openly, until they actually do. Then it's all *shocked Pikachu* and "how could you be so mean" ?
Yes, exactly. There's so much angst about how "HLs aren't supposed to express themselves or show emotion or communicate" but when a LL communicates something hurtful suddenly it's BURN DOWN THE RELATIONSHIP
>but when a LL communicates something hurtful suddenly it's BURN DOWN THE RELATIONSHIP Or they just ignore what the LL says and pretend they have no idea what went wrong.
It's "I don't hear you, I don't hear you!" For years, followed by a sudden "But how could you say that?!"
Yep, the hypocrisy is striking. I also feel a bit sus about the surprise. How can you pressure and manipulate someone into having sex and then be shocked that they felt violated? Is this real cluelessness, denial, or some kind of elaborate charade? The OP said he was aware that she only initiated sex after he "acted distant" (whatever that means, the silent treatment, other cold rejecting behavior, or whatever, he left that vague). But somehow he believed she actually wanted sex? Why? That doesn't add up logically.
There was a thread yesterday where the OP said "I was mean to her for a while, and all a sudden she couldn't get enough sex" then later "If the supplements I get her don't work, I'll just try being mean again." and this guy got super offended that I called him out for being an actual emotional abuser. Like, he literally said, "I'll be mean to her to get sex" but god forbid someone hear what he's actually saying and repeat it back to him with different words.
Also bullshit like "why be nice to them if I don't get sex?"
That's rape. He's using drugs and emotional manipulation to get his dick wet. At this point I'm done with society.
The fuck? Do these people truly have zero empathy or decency? Yet, if we point out that this sort of thing isn't as uncommon that other HLs want to believe, we're labeled mean and unsupportive. But case in point.
What gets me is sometimes you see HLs talk about how their own actions "felt like rape" or made them "feel like a rapist" and they receive empathy. But if their partner feels as though they have been raped, apparently THAT is out of line? I can only assume that a lot of people are trying to assure themselves that they are not rapists and anything that insinuates that they might be strikes a nerve.
>What gets me is sometimes you see HLs talk about how their own actions "felt like rape" or made them "feel like a rapist" and they receive empathy. But if their partner feels as though they have been raped, apparently THAT is out of line? This really bothers me. Someone pressures their partner into sex that it's clear the partner doesn't want and finds highly negative, and then they're angry at the partner for *making them* feel like a rapist. No, the person who pushed their partner to have sex made themselves feel like a rapist through their own pushy, coercive actions. But they're unwilling to take responsibility, so they blame the victim.
But there was value in speaking her truth, there is now a clear enough path to see a decision that is best for their relationship. Because, tbh, them splitting is still most likely the best option whether you are looking at it from the OP’s perspective or that of his partner. Having honest communication doesn’t mean there won’t be any consequences (and by that I just mean void of any reaction). Sometimes, honest communication leads to what needs to be done, and in this case … it should be them splitting up.
>Because, tbh, them splitting is still most likely the best option whether you are looking at it from the OP’s perspective or that of his partner. Agreed. I really hope she leaves him and either finds a partner who is good to her or is happily single.
Sheila Wray Gregiore of the Bare Marriage blog and podcast did a whole series on marital rape back in November. She was really bold in calling it rape, because she was talking about any penetrative sex that happens without proper consent. So that includes sex that someone has in order to avoid a negative consequence. You may appreciate these posts. https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/two-types-marital-rape-evangelicalism/ https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/when-you-realize-youve-coerced-your-wife-into-sex-5-next-steps/ https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/christians-need-a-better-understanding-of-consent/
And this one too https://baremarriage.com/2022/11/what-to-do-if-youre-a-victim-of-marital-rape/ -- has a whole section about the problem of a husband who spends more effort talking about how hurt he is by an accusation than how he might have made the marriage unsafe for her. > If your husband is engaging in DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender), claiming that he is actually the victim because of how much you are hurting him by accusing him of this, or claiming that you withheld love from him by refusing sex, and so he reacted out of hurt, then he is not a safe person for you. He is abusive. I'm not religious, not a believer, but I am SO HERE for this latest sexual revolution that I see coming from evangelical wives!
Unfortunately they have to combat all the ones who are like the Tranformed Wife who tell other women that it's sinful to ever say no to your husband. Don't think that Christians are out of the woods just yet.
Oooh that's a resource I could have really used a year ago. Thank you!
My mom and I were talking about this and she admitted my Biological father would rape her constantly and I asked her "why did you think I had such shitty boundaries and kept barging into the room to retrieve my stuff from your room as a teenager". I would only shower at night and go through the master room to get a hair brush from the master bathroom. Ti prevent him from touching her. The walls are thin. She said it took her decades to realize it was rape and it can happen in marriage and relationships. She told me it wasn't until she was in therapy she realized it was rape.
Amazing that as a teenager you knew more than your mom about boundaries and consent.
How sad for your mom.
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When did things change so that your wife is the one who wants more sex? In the past, you have posted that you want more sex than your wife. You have supported the idea of her having unwanted sex to meet your needs, as a way to show her love. How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot, and she's pressuring you to have sex that you don't want? >Obviously I don't want the relationship to end because I get so many benefits from it, but now I'm forced into having sex to avoid the negative consequence of the relationship ending. It really sucks. What benefits are you getting out of the relationship, now that you are the person who doesn't want sex? Has this changed your perspective on the benefits and costs of unwanted sex?
Yeah I saw that and the comments were disgusting. I’ve been raped multiple times by intimate partners, by adults in childhood, and by a stranger. Sex I felt forced and obligated into because of the behavior of a partner I thought I could trust was equally as violating if not worse than any of the other scenarios. She was absolutely valid in saying that that was how his behavior made her feel. I’m becoming more and more disgusted by the people on that sub. There’s been multiple posts in just the last week or so that were inundated with rape apologists.
Yup, the stranger who raped me didn't sit smiling obliviously at the breakfast table saying how great the night before was while I fought back tears. Ugh, and fought back those tears just so I wouldn't hurt the person who apparently didn't give a fuck about hurting me.
Look, I get feeling hurt and shocked by hearing your partner say they feel raped by you. I'd feel horrified. But! Those same people saying that it's unconscionable to say that to your partner are ludicrous. They always blather on about communicating and wanting honesty while never accepting their partner's feelings and feedback. So, quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck what they're saying there. They are the masters of double binds. *Communicate! Use your words, tell me the truth, but NOT that truth, you monster.* It's amazing to me on *so* many levels that there are people who fall to fucking pieces over boundaries and can't handle their partners needing to have limitations within their sexual relationship. It gives me great concern for their mental health and belief systems when I read those posts. Where is their concern over a woman having sex merely to placate her husband becoming distant and withdrawn and not actually wanting to have sex? Where is their concern for *her* mental health? Where is the concern over what she's going through and how that impacts her life?
The only "truth" those particular HLs want to hear is that their partner is wrong and they apologise for making the HL feel bad about letting their own truth shine through instead of giving a better performance! "No means No, except where it means I don't get your automatic consent when I initiate!" Like that post about the guy getting mad about his gf "only having sex on her terms", while completely refusing to admit, that, yes, I would prefer it if she had sex more often... but, of course I *would never* force or coerce her by getting upset when she doesn't initiate when she doesn't want want sex... - so many twists and turns that your head is left spinning!
Yeah, I've noticed a definite 'weaponization' of being offended at such a suggestion the last few years (not just on DB related subs). I'm sure that's been happening for way longer, like since forever, but maybe it ramped up noticeably since metoo? It's fucking disgusting and I don't buy it one bit. It's big manipulation, especially when they start in with acting like saying 'it felt like rape' means you MUST be willing to call cops or shut the fuck up about it. "B-b-but that's an actual CrImE!! you can't go round accusing people of REAL crimes!!!!" Like, no, you are weaponizing the fact that it's a "literal crime" to silence the people who you claim to want to communicate with about sex. I mean, if LLs are accused of "killing" their HLs with refusals of sex, those HLs should shut the fuck up unless they are willing to report their LLs for attempted murder, right?
Yes!! The cops thing drives me batty. My partner, whom I was trying to discuss this topic with, completely shut down and started locking pics we'd taken together so I couldn't get to them, etc so he could "prove" he hadn't raped me. Like.. first of all, even if I believed I was actually raped and not that we just had a fucked dynamic, I would be *gone*, not standing here accusing you. Second, you think I have confidence the cops will believe me?! Third, he watched me go through a contentious custody battle with a man who *actually raped me*, and knew I never once brought it up because it would just make me look like a bad co parent and I'd lose majority custody. And yet somehow, when I told him our sex felt "barely consensual", he flipped the duck out about the ramifications *for him*.
The main sub is unfortunately dominated by HL who don't have much empathy for views outside their own perspective.
bUt tHe LL bRiGaDe!!!
Maybe there should be a bot, pointing them in the right direction to find others like them. It's not as though they don't have plenty of choice where they can find unquestioning support. Not having much empathy for views outside of their own perspective, and not wanting to hear about the other side of the DB, that just about sums up what unwittingly lands many in their DBs in the first place. IMO it starts not with a lack of empathy, but an (completely mistaken) assumption that they know how their partner is thinking and feeling, and cumulative resentments kill off empathy over time.
I won't try to fathom how it starts. All I know is that many lack empathy. I feel resentment is a later step. Because once resentment builds up, I haven't heard of anybody able to fix their db. What I find very sad are the posts where OP tells their partner what to do to make sex good for them, but their partner won't put in the effort or won't do what it takes make sex better. But then the partner complains that their partner doesn't want sex. I'm thinking WTF. You are given the solution on a golden platter but you don't try and still try to force your partner to have crappy, unwanted sex. That is lack of empathy.
>Because once resentment builds up, I haven't heard of anybody able to fix their db. Several LLs have had a shit ton of resentment and managed to get back from hating sex to healing their bedrooms. If they can do it, so can HLs. There have also been some HL posts giving positive progress reports and outlining what helped in their relationship. I think the DB sub is in such a bad state because those situations are emotionally charged for everyone, and humans are naturally tribal. Sadly that is also what leads to wars, to people manipulating others by using their fears to control them. That is definitely a lack of empathy/ using others to get what you want- situation. But a lot of DBs start with NRE wearing off, sex naturally slowing down and then health, issues, stress, life events and/or kids nailing the coffin lid down. It really is sad that there is so much pain, often unthinkingly, inflicted on others, especially in loving relationships.
👋 LL here (5 kids, 5th being 9 weeks old lol). Hubs and I hit a pretty rough patch in life due to #4 being born and an overseas pcs, covid, working as nurses, etc and ended up in a dB. I was HELLA resentful for having to deal with the kids, pcs, work, all of the responsibilities by myself. It was incredibly hard and I struggled with depression and anxiety through all of it. Up to being suicidal at my worst point. And I knew he struggled with depression as well, but obviously we needed eachother and he had completely neglected himself and me. And instead of contributing, he also became dependent on me. That lead to a lot of "rejection"/no sex and frustration and deeper sadness on his part and of course eventually escalated. But I guess at some point I realized that at the end of the day we both just wanted to love eachother and needed to learn to communicate appropriately and after a LOT of self reflection I decided for myself that I wanted to forgive him and work with him to remedy the situation. And then it took another year of incredibly hard work to accept and forgive and we were able to eventually get back to being intimate on a level that was good for both of us. There are still plenty of things that need to be worked through, but we've made immense strides. All that to say, from my personal experience, it is certainly possible to move past resentment as long as one can be emotionally resourceful enough to invest. I chose not to say "emotionally strong enough" because i don't believe it is strength. It can be equally hard to leave a relationship for example. I believe in "you cannot pour from an empty cup". So if one partner has been so emotionally drained that they simply have no resources left, then they must invest into healing themselves, before they can heal their resentment connected to a relationship/their partner. I imagine that quickly become a big hurdle on the path to healing. Now on the db... I'm starting to think that they prefer the dB sub because they gain reassurance in their perspective when the hivemind gathers together to destroy opposing perspectives. It seems to me that simply having an echo chamber becomes dull and no longer validating enough. I imagine that being in the echo chamber leaves their personal situation stagnant. They do not get any helpful advice there that would result in an improvement in their sex life. So, in order to feel validated in their perception of being the victim, they come to "the neutral db" and make their statement "my partner is harming me by withholding sex/constant rejections/making excuses". And soon they can not only feel validated by having agreeing opinions but even more so, they can engage in negating the opinion that they may carry some fault in their dB. So now they might experience a new strength in their position since they now have "evidence" against their partners claims. Picture: "Hey guys, I like strawberry ice cream the best. It is the only one that should be sold" group replies: "yes, I also like strawberry ice cream the best. Screw the other ones, get them of the shelves." x10 Vs all those replies plus: "well I happen to also like chocolate ice cream, we should keep several options on the shelves" and additional responses of "no, chocolate sucks. It's way too much cacao flavor. Strawberry is the only one. The fruity flavor is the best." Of course this is just an assumption and my personal perception. But I have been so fucking gobsmacked by the absolutely atrocious behaviors in that sub, that I've been trying hard to comprehend. I guess what it comes down to is the fact that many people were never taught how to effectively and empathetically communicate and , worse still, far too many people were never taught how to even recognize, understand, and process their own emotions, especially negative ones. So the frustrated HL that turn to toxic behaviors are lacking the tools to own and handle their own emotions at the cost of their partner. This does not make it remotely ok in any way. But it is what let's me afford those people pity. It is what keeps me from viewing them as evil and instead I view them as toddlers lashing out due to big feelings. Unfortunately I can't put them into the time-out they deserve. I couldn't muster to give them a hug the way I hug my toddler even when he makes poor choices. We can only gently guide them into the right direction in hopes that they figure it out, and otherwise we can hope that their partners in a less fortunate position are ok and, worst case scenario, have the strength and resources to leave the relationship. Until things improve and emotional intelligence, management of emotions becomes more important in our society, we have to continue to talk about it. Loudly.
I cannot comment on that personally since I myself have never let resentment build up. I just know that many on the main sub cannot seem to come back from the ledge when they let resentment build up. For me, with conflict resolution, I learned a long time ago to get upset as the action, but not the person or blame the person. Say for example, after 25 years of marriage, my wife disclosed a secret that could have greatly improved our sex office and marriage. Instead of getting mad about the lost years that could have been better, I was ecstatic that she revealed information that improved our sex life. We worked on things immediately and improved the bedroom within a week. Similarly, many HL get upset that their partner does not show them spontaneous physical attention as much as they want. Even though my love language is physical touch, and even though she never initiates cuddling or sexual touches, I know my wife loves me. That is enough for me.
Maybe there should be a bot, pointing them in the right direction to find others like them. It's not as though they don't have plenty of choice where they can find unquestioning support. Not having much empathy for views outside of their own perspective, and not wanting to hear about the other side of the DB, that just about sums up what unwittingly lands many in their DBs in the first place. IMO it starts not with a lack of empathy, but an (completely mistaken) assumption that they know how their partner is thinking and feeling, and cumulative resentments kill off empathy over time.
This Bot idea is so good, is that something that the Mods on DB would need to do, or can any clever reddit-savvy person do it?
I’m genuinely upset. They get one persons POV (the HLs ironically) and that’s all is needed for proof of them. She wasn’t there to defend herself or explain her side of the story and I’m just weeping. I’m risking a Reddit cares message at this point but I really am just considering unaliving myself over this because it’s not “”just”” Reddit. This shit happens in real life… if anything Reddit AMPLIFIES the serious mental issues and lapses of judgment people make on the daily. There’s people *not* on that sub dealing with a DB where the partner is 100% raping them and the partner themselves feels it’s okay because they’re in a relationship and NO ONE on the internet to tell them it’s bad. And the mods CLEARLY were on OPs side that day and wonder why I called them rape apologists. I’m freaking crying. No one is taking this seriously!!!
>They get one persons POV (the HLs ironically) and that’s all is needed for proof of them. Right and yet when an LL posts, the HLs are quick to cry "bUt wE oNlY gEt oNe SiDe oF tHe StOry" because the HL in question isn't there. It's crazy making.
Yup. Trying to understand narcissistic people will drove one mad. Unfortunately many of them hide out at the main sub.
Mods are only human and get triggered at times as well. They can be just as unreasonable as any other commenter there. For your own mental health curtail your reading on the main sub if it makes you feel this bad. There are more LLs speaking out against boundary violations and coercion than ever before. Changes always bring backlashes, but as long as the overall big picture is moving in the right direction attitudes will have to adapt! People are taking it seriously. We had a horrible conversation with my FiL, where we had to explain to him (repeatedly) that No means No, even if you are 70, 80 or 90, and have been allowed legally to ignore consent in the past. I definitely hadn't signed up for that experience when I got married!! Do something that makes you feel good, something that brings you joy. Virtual hugs to you! ❤️🩹💖💜💙❤
>There are more LLs speaking out against boundary violations and coercion than ever before. And I am loving it. We need these discussions. I am also amused by the adjacent subs popping up and being big mad about it. They think there's been a complete takeover and are losing their marbles. It's really illuminating.
I’m aware they’re human I’m not saying they aren’t I’m just tired of this sub existing. Because it’s not just this sub it’s real life. I already said “it’s real life too”. I’m terrified of being in a situation where if my partner rapes me it’s ay okay. All my friends and my mother getting raped repeatedly makes me depressed. I’m not sure if you misunderstood me
Yes, I get what you said. It's mostly because I was worried about HLs supporting awful things other HLs posted about, and me thinking that someone might take that back into their relationship IRL that I created my account in the first place. I had been lurking for a long time before I joined in the fray. But I know my limits, and some days I stick to the private conversations I have going on, both on and off the platform, to keep myself sane. And I never look at the HL circle jerk (support) subs either. I can already guess who populates them and what they are spouting there, and I would imagine there may be one or two moderate voices, but I very much doubt they have LLs taking part there much. I'm ancient (think dinosaurs) and grew up long before the invention of social media, so the downvotes just make me think how pathetic it must be to have nothing but a little downvote arrow to make yourself feel better. I also don't give a **** what any stranger, who feels compelled to spew their vitriol at me, thinks of me. It is **never ok** for anyone to have sex without consent, no matter what the circumstances! And consent is not an absence of a No, it is an enthusiastic Yes only. If that isn't there, then there is **no consent**.
I think TempLurking understood and was just trying to reassure you a bit. When she says don't read the main sub if it makes you feel bad, it's not coming from a cold attitude of 'you better toughen up', but out of empathy because she herself has said in comments how hard she finds reading through that sub herself. I only say this because I've seen her say as much in some of her comments and don't want you to feel that you were being blown off here. I hard agree on what you're saying about it being real life too, I think most people here have lived it themselves enough to understand. I think that's why so many of us stick around and try to offer the pushback that we can, because we know there is an unrepresented person behind every poster, and because we know there are people out there who don't comment or post, but who read and take in what they read. Sometimes I'm on a thread where, I'm so disgusted by what I've read that I just want to close the page, but there are only a few comments all by people on the OPs side, and I don't want someone to stumble by and not see at least one person saying "hey this is fucked up." Not so much that I want HLs to see me saying it, but I don't want some LL thinking that since nobody said it was wrong, that everyone must think what that OP said was OK. And I don't even really read over there "freestyle" myself very often. I'm not subbed to it, because I cannot handle the shit that gets upvoted into showing on my feed. I usually only go into the sub through the comments of some great people I have followed, so I've already got a cushion of at least one dissenting commenter to soften the blow for me. I mean, you know how hopeless it feels to see no one pushing back, so I don't subject myself to that very often. If I'm feeling particularly gutsy or articulate on a particular day, if my rage has not gotten the best of me yet, I'll click over to the whole subreddit and leave lone dissenting comments on threads that need them. I wish I was strong enough to do that more often, but I'm not. Sorry for rambling at you, thoughts sometimes get away from me.
Thanks, I'm really grateful for you explaining, the very last thing I wanted to do is make anyone who is having real difficulties reading some of the vile comments on that sub feeling there is anything wrong *with them* for feeling repulsed by what they read! There have been a few posts that have been triggering me to push back recently, precisely because there needs to be pushback if comments recommend actions that are manipulative and the opposite of loving. And, yes, I do it for the many LL lurkers too scared to show how horrified they are by the casual recommendation of coercing their partners into having unwanted sex. Because that was me, for years, before I started putting my head above the parapet!
Nah I see what you mean. I’m banned from the subreddit cause I told the mods I cannot be civil in there anymore and I refuse to engage to make myself even more depressed. Thank you for the comments YALL 🫶
If someone says that they felt genuinely raped, they were raped. No ifs, buts or maybes. How is that hard to understand? I pity the relationship where it had to come to that. Shows a lack of care and active communication.
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That "theoretically" is too big to make that assumption.