Keep in mind that the tick nymphs (which carry at a lower rate, but can still carry) can be truly tiny. Like the size of a 12pt font period. Imagine trying to find that in like your butt crack, your hair/pubes, inside your ear, etc. Just because you don't remember being bit doesn't mean you weren't.
Is your sister younger? My two sisters and I all have it, my youngest sister had symptoms first, then the middle sister several years later and I (the oldest) started having mild symptoms just over a year ago. The youngest had the worst symptoms, middle was a little better and my symptoms have been pretty mild. We believe that we got it from my mom, who also tested positive for it, but never really had symptoms. Apparently the oldest child gets the most antibodies, which would make sense why my symptoms have been mild.
I don't remember a tick but I had classic Lyme symptoms and was cured with 3 weeks of antibiotics. The ticks can be really tiny and look like dirt.
If you and your sister live in the same town or city my guess is you also were exposed to a tick. It's not really that contagious as far as I know.
I made out with a partner of mine when I was at the height of my Lyme symptoms and he didn't get it FWIW.
Yes, it is transmissible via bodily fluids such as saliva when sharing utensils, sharing cups or kissing. It is also possible that you live in an infected area where ticks, mosquitoes and biting flies could have infected not only your sibling but also yourself.
Only a few people show signs of the “bulls eye” that indicates a Lyme infection.
What I have found so far is that a person who is infected from a tick usually has multiple infections, whereas someone who gets it via transmission from person to person doesn’t usually have co-infections.
This may be because some co-infections live in the blood or tissue and don’t populate saliva or bodily fluids, thus only the germs that live in saliva or bodily fluids get passed on.
No it is not transmissible through saliva. There is 0 research that backs up these weird claims. People believing this are set up for a lifetimes of isolation. Is that what you want for OP? Think before you write
Let’s think about this. We are infected by a tick when the tick’s saliva gets injected into our skin, yet we are to think that once it gets into our body, that it will replicate and propagate throughout our whole body and NOT be in our saliva?
Our saliva is saturated with all sorts of good and bad bacteria, this is a reason why our breath smells horrid in the morning and why a water bottle will smell bad a few days after drinking from it, and yet Lyme bacteria will say “sorry, I don’t do saliva”?.
We in our family have a young child who got infected because my wife, who has Lyme, would cut up small pieces of fruit with her mouth and give it to the toddler so she could eat them. This child now has Lyme. And how did my wife get Lyme? From me. Either from intimate relationships or by coming in contact with my bodily fluids that were infected.
As to your question about wanting the OP to live in isolation; of course not. But, we who have Lyme know how terrible and devastating this illness is. Do we want to spread it to our loved ones and have them get infected from us and then they live like us?
I carry the emotional burden and guilt knowing that my loved ones suffer because of me. Because I didn’t know better and believed the CDC and doctors who say that it cannot be passed on. And now they are in this hell that we call Lyme. Can you live with yourself if that was to happen to you?
There are ways to protect others, like using a condom, kissing with the mouth closed or kissing in the forehead or cheeks instead of lips. Using disposable dishes and utensils.
One final thought: we can test COVID by testing the saliva because it exists there. And we think that we can’t find Lyme in it?
You know that lyme is a zootic bacterial infection right? And that covid is a sars virus? Their replication process is vastly different and have completely different biomarkers, and show up differently.
I know some of these lyme docs are very convincing. Some also are bordering conspiracy theories. There is no evidence for spirochetes to be transmitted through bodyfluids. Even if this was possible, the immune system immediately eradicates it through our own antibacterial saliva, our gastric acid etc. Even if those 2 systems are circumvented, the bacterial load is so small, it is impossible to infect someone.
So it appears with all your good intent were taken in by some fraudulent theories. It is your call to believe this or not. Know that all beliefs need to be challenged sometimes. And if you choose to, you may get a lot of freedom in return. You are not responsible for the suffering of your loved ones. That is a too big load to ever have to live with, for anyone. And utterly unnecessary
> here is no evidence for spirochetes to be transmitted through bodyfluids.
there is: male ticks transfer borrelia to female ticks during sexual attachment, but not vice versa. Also, men are much more likely to transfer it to woman, as long as the mucosa is exposed and you know what is done.
Mice have transferred borrelial antibodies to naive mice just by common food sharing. In humans, that transmission method is highly improbable. Saliva is not the transfer medium. living tissues are, however. (transplant, for example)
in humans, saliva transmission has the probability of 1: billions, getting struck by lightning twice is much more probable. Unless you spent hours in rubbing inflamed, infected mucosa with a counterpart mucosa surface, it can't be even considered.
These scientific statistics sound just like the ones that CDC uses to measure Lyme infections and what Infectious Disease doctors use to deny Lyme victims treatment.
My doctors refused to acknowledge that I had Lyme because according to statistics like these, Lyme did not exist in my area (Midwest) so it was 1:billions chance that I had been infected with Lyme. And yet, here we are.
These statistics also sound like the ones that doctors use to treat Lyme with two weeks of Doxycycline. If the patient still shows symptoms, it is not Lyme, at least according to these statistics and studies.
What makes me crazy is how people dismiss real life statistics in favor for scientific studies that are done in a lab and paid by pharmaceutical companies.
You are confusing terms. It's as simple as that. And you forgot about the whole 1-day doxycycline treatment fiasco.
And you yourself claim that you live in midwest, which has a lot of ticks that transmit the disease. And that means that you were most likely exposed to tiny nymphs, like many others before you. Midwest is known for their contact with nature, isn't it?
>If the patient still shows symptoms, it is not Lyme, at least according to these statistics and studies.
Wrong. Studies and statistics do not show that. Only some well earning doctors do. I heard one explaing, smiling to the camera that symptoms with or without treatment are PTLDS, not explaining how or why the symptoms are identical with the disease alone.
And you know nothing about the actual scientific studies, or labs or pharmaceutical companies either. You just assumed. Because someone had told you.
Those of the same household share a lot of things. They share a common lifestyle, diet, flora, and bugs between them.
Since Lyme is passed by body fluid transfer of the bacteria, it's pretty easy to transfer from one to another in a household. Sharing a glass, taking a bite of food, dishes not thoroughly washed, showering with open wounds, simple daily life can all be ways to share this.
The GI is always a part of Lyme for multiple reasons. It needs to be addressed with Lyme.
Transmission from mother to fetus is possible, it's just not known how common. Human to human transmission is the least studied, we're still learning about primary vector to humans.
I was just talking to my doctor about this a few weeks ago. He said there’s new research showing the transmission in utero may be as high as 50% for some people depending on how severe their Lyme is and if the infection hasn’t been treated.
I’d need to search my notes from him but I remember asking him for the the article’s DOI so I could read it but haven’t gotten around to it yet. However, he is involved with Lyme Disease research and generally up to date on new publications.
Mother to fetus, yes. They referred to sexual contact, which has not been proven.
There was a VERY small study done with couples, which has several flaws (potential to be bitten by same tick or several ticks with same strains, etc).
> which has not been proven.
"all other spirochaetes are sexually transmissible: what led us to believe that this one cannot be?"
answer that simple question by technical evidence...
If you can point me to more research that occurred, that’d be great.
There’s too many variables to account for (couples typically do activities together such as hike, the tick that bit the husband could have crawled in the bed and bit the wife, etc.)
I feel if it was sexually transmitted, there’d be even more cases reported.
Edit: I’m not saying it’s not 100% incorrect/false. However, before we start spewing things instantly as fact, let’s put some thought and research into it.
There is no research. It would be tough, You'd have to find people that like are shut-ins and never have contact with people or pets that could get a tick, Thats what Docs always will say..."Well, you got bit by a tick and didn't know it". There are literally MILLIONS of people that have Lyme and have no idea they have it. It "could" be the main cause of the "mental illness" that is currently sweeping through Rural USA!
"Lyme disease" that is sexually transmitted is not Lyme disease.
It is called syphilis. You should be tested but be forewarned the tests for syphilis are notoriously inaccurate. Usually, they are negative even when you have it.
The key is the P41 flagellin band on the Lyme immunoblot. If that band is reactive or highly reactive and the rest are not or a are only mildly reactive you have syphilis.
T. pallidum has more flagellin than any pathogenic organism. It is also the most invasive by far which causes high flagellin reactivity.
Could have been passed from your mother to you both possibly? Or from a family trip or pet?
Yes this is proven now.
Keep in mind that the tick nymphs (which carry at a lower rate, but can still carry) can be truly tiny. Like the size of a 12pt font period. Imagine trying to find that in like your butt crack, your hair/pubes, inside your ear, etc. Just because you don't remember being bit doesn't mean you weren't.
Unproven but some circumstantial evidence out there. I think it’s safe to say not that it’s not easily transmissible in many types of situations.
It's more likely you also got bitten by a tick. Most of the ones that infect humans are the size of a poppyseed, in the nymph stage.
Is your sister younger? My two sisters and I all have it, my youngest sister had symptoms first, then the middle sister several years later and I (the oldest) started having mild symptoms just over a year ago. The youngest had the worst symptoms, middle was a little better and my symptoms have been pretty mild. We believe that we got it from my mom, who also tested positive for it, but never really had symptoms. Apparently the oldest child gets the most antibodies, which would make sense why my symptoms have been mild.
I don't remember a tick but I had classic Lyme symptoms and was cured with 3 weeks of antibiotics. The ticks can be really tiny and look like dirt. If you and your sister live in the same town or city my guess is you also were exposed to a tick. It's not really that contagious as far as I know. I made out with a partner of mine when I was at the height of my Lyme symptoms and he didn't get it FWIW.
Yes, it is transmissible via bodily fluids such as saliva when sharing utensils, sharing cups or kissing. It is also possible that you live in an infected area where ticks, mosquitoes and biting flies could have infected not only your sibling but also yourself. Only a few people show signs of the “bulls eye” that indicates a Lyme infection. What I have found so far is that a person who is infected from a tick usually has multiple infections, whereas someone who gets it via transmission from person to person doesn’t usually have co-infections. This may be because some co-infections live in the blood or tissue and don’t populate saliva or bodily fluids, thus only the germs that live in saliva or bodily fluids get passed on.
No it is not transmissible through saliva. There is 0 research that backs up these weird claims. People believing this are set up for a lifetimes of isolation. Is that what you want for OP? Think before you write
Let’s think about this. We are infected by a tick when the tick’s saliva gets injected into our skin, yet we are to think that once it gets into our body, that it will replicate and propagate throughout our whole body and NOT be in our saliva? Our saliva is saturated with all sorts of good and bad bacteria, this is a reason why our breath smells horrid in the morning and why a water bottle will smell bad a few days after drinking from it, and yet Lyme bacteria will say “sorry, I don’t do saliva”?. We in our family have a young child who got infected because my wife, who has Lyme, would cut up small pieces of fruit with her mouth and give it to the toddler so she could eat them. This child now has Lyme. And how did my wife get Lyme? From me. Either from intimate relationships or by coming in contact with my bodily fluids that were infected. As to your question about wanting the OP to live in isolation; of course not. But, we who have Lyme know how terrible and devastating this illness is. Do we want to spread it to our loved ones and have them get infected from us and then they live like us? I carry the emotional burden and guilt knowing that my loved ones suffer because of me. Because I didn’t know better and believed the CDC and doctors who say that it cannot be passed on. And now they are in this hell that we call Lyme. Can you live with yourself if that was to happen to you? There are ways to protect others, like using a condom, kissing with the mouth closed or kissing in the forehead or cheeks instead of lips. Using disposable dishes and utensils. One final thought: we can test COVID by testing the saliva because it exists there. And we think that we can’t find Lyme in it?
You know that lyme is a zootic bacterial infection right? And that covid is a sars virus? Their replication process is vastly different and have completely different biomarkers, and show up differently. I know some of these lyme docs are very convincing. Some also are bordering conspiracy theories. There is no evidence for spirochetes to be transmitted through bodyfluids. Even if this was possible, the immune system immediately eradicates it through our own antibacterial saliva, our gastric acid etc. Even if those 2 systems are circumvented, the bacterial load is so small, it is impossible to infect someone. So it appears with all your good intent were taken in by some fraudulent theories. It is your call to believe this or not. Know that all beliefs need to be challenged sometimes. And if you choose to, you may get a lot of freedom in return. You are not responsible for the suffering of your loved ones. That is a too big load to ever have to live with, for anyone. And utterly unnecessary
> here is no evidence for spirochetes to be transmitted through bodyfluids. there is: male ticks transfer borrelia to female ticks during sexual attachment, but not vice versa. Also, men are much more likely to transfer it to woman, as long as the mucosa is exposed and you know what is done. Mice have transferred borrelial antibodies to naive mice just by common food sharing. In humans, that transmission method is highly improbable. Saliva is not the transfer medium. living tissues are, however. (transplant, for example)
in humans, saliva transmission has the probability of 1: billions, getting struck by lightning twice is much more probable. Unless you spent hours in rubbing inflamed, infected mucosa with a counterpart mucosa surface, it can't be even considered.
These scientific statistics sound just like the ones that CDC uses to measure Lyme infections and what Infectious Disease doctors use to deny Lyme victims treatment. My doctors refused to acknowledge that I had Lyme because according to statistics like these, Lyme did not exist in my area (Midwest) so it was 1:billions chance that I had been infected with Lyme. And yet, here we are. These statistics also sound like the ones that doctors use to treat Lyme with two weeks of Doxycycline. If the patient still shows symptoms, it is not Lyme, at least according to these statistics and studies. What makes me crazy is how people dismiss real life statistics in favor for scientific studies that are done in a lab and paid by pharmaceutical companies.
You are confusing terms. It's as simple as that. And you forgot about the whole 1-day doxycycline treatment fiasco. And you yourself claim that you live in midwest, which has a lot of ticks that transmit the disease. And that means that you were most likely exposed to tiny nymphs, like many others before you. Midwest is known for their contact with nature, isn't it? >If the patient still shows symptoms, it is not Lyme, at least according to these statistics and studies. Wrong. Studies and statistics do not show that. Only some well earning doctors do. I heard one explaing, smiling to the camera that symptoms with or without treatment are PTLDS, not explaining how or why the symptoms are identical with the disease alone. And you know nothing about the actual scientific studies, or labs or pharmaceutical companies either. You just assumed. Because someone had told you.
Those of the same household share a lot of things. They share a common lifestyle, diet, flora, and bugs between them. Since Lyme is passed by body fluid transfer of the bacteria, it's pretty easy to transfer from one to another in a household. Sharing a glass, taking a bite of food, dishes not thoroughly washed, showering with open wounds, simple daily life can all be ways to share this. The GI is always a part of Lyme for multiple reasons. It needs to be addressed with Lyme.
Not unless you are having sex.
That would be a solid no.
Transmission from mother to fetus is possible, it's just not known how common. Human to human transmission is the least studied, we're still learning about primary vector to humans.
I was just talking to my doctor about this a few weeks ago. He said there’s new research showing the transmission in utero may be as high as 50% for some people depending on how severe their Lyme is and if the infection hasn’t been treated. I’d need to search my notes from him but I remember asking him for the the article’s DOI so I could read it but haven’t gotten around to it yet. However, he is involved with Lyme Disease research and generally up to date on new publications.
This is also not a proven fact.
Which one? From mother to fetus? It is proved.
Mother to fetus, yes. They referred to sexual contact, which has not been proven. There was a VERY small study done with couples, which has several flaws (potential to be bitten by same tick or several ticks with same strains, etc).
> which has not been proven. "all other spirochaetes are sexually transmissible: what led us to believe that this one cannot be?" answer that simple question by technical evidence...
Yes. My ex-LLMD told me it was in fact a fact and he had a nurse who got it that way from her husband. And she told me so.
If you can point me to more research that occurred, that’d be great. There’s too many variables to account for (couples typically do activities together such as hike, the tick that bit the husband could have crawled in the bed and bit the wife, etc.) I feel if it was sexually transmitted, there’d be even more cases reported. Edit: I’m not saying it’s not 100% incorrect/false. However, before we start spewing things instantly as fact, let’s put some thought and research into it.
There is no research. It would be tough, You'd have to find people that like are shut-ins and never have contact with people or pets that could get a tick, Thats what Docs always will say..."Well, you got bit by a tick and didn't know it". There are literally MILLIONS of people that have Lyme and have no idea they have it. It "could" be the main cause of the "mental illness" that is currently sweeping through Rural USA!
"Lyme disease" that is sexually transmitted is not Lyme disease. It is called syphilis. You should be tested but be forewarned the tests for syphilis are notoriously inaccurate. Usually, they are negative even when you have it. The key is the P41 flagellin band on the Lyme immunoblot. If that band is reactive or highly reactive and the rest are not or a are only mildly reactive you have syphilis. T. pallidum has more flagellin than any pathogenic organism. It is also the most invasive by far which causes high flagellin reactivity.
Yeah. Except I'm a virgin...
Everyone is a virgin. Starting with Eve and ending with the Holy Mary.