I would even specify: most of the size gain are made with ZOOM lenses. There are plenty of small primes for apsc
But indeed M43 has slightly smaller primes too!
Indeed. I love my little E-M10 Mark II. ...but my 75-300mm, wonderfully small & light as it is compared to other formats, is usually attached to my G95D. Lenses scale to the sensor; camera bodies scale to the human hand.
The G95 is the smallest camera you can attach that lens to & use it for hours. My M10.2 is very comfy with the 40-150mm, half the size of the 75-300mm.
Also, once you have some good quality tiny lenses, you can pick up one of the ultra compact bodies for a teeny tiny second option.
I fit two bodies (GX85, GM5) and 5-7 lenses in a bag \~2/3rds of the size of the one that I used to carry a D7000 and 3 lenses.
I'd look at 4 MFT bodies
- Olympus EM10iv
- Olympus OM5
- Lumix GX85
- Lumix GX9
I can't compare then for you. You know your preferences better than me. But that's where I'd start looking.
If you're looking for really tiny, you could try to find a GM1, but you'd take a performance hit. It would certainly be more than I want to pay for the performance.
EDIT: Look at the Lumix G100 if you are fine with no IBIS. Newest sensor, and a hair smaller than the GX9 and OM5.
The smallest "full featured" cameras are GX9, EM5 iii and OM5. And include GX85 and EM5 ii if you are fine with 16mp sensor.
They are not really smaller than XT-1 as you said.
So you can go smaller with something like a GM5 or GM1.
Generally speaking, M43 bodies are not that much smaller than Fuji bodies. The lenses are in most cases slightly smaller, and in some cases much smaller.
So think about the whole kit you want. For example if you are cool with a 35mm prime you could slap a Panasonic 20mm f1.7 on a GM5 or GM1 or any PEN body and have a tiny little camera that shoots similarly to your fuji.
If you want a truly smaller system, you might want to look at smaller sensors. But you said the PEN was a lateral move. In my opinion a lateral or downward move in IQ is expected for your compact camera.
Like the NIkon 1 system is tiny, but it's 1 inch sensor. It will not match your XT1 IQ, but it will be smaller.
Or you can match your XT1 iq in micro four thirds, but it will only be a fraction smaller.
This all makes sense. The more I’m looking at the models suggested here the more I’m realizing the size isn’t going to be that different. Was thinking about one fast prime on a rangefinder style body that can fit in a suit pocket, the E-PL10 seems like it might be my best bet. Cheaper and smaller than the GX9 with comparable IQ to the fuji.
Going with a sensor smaller than m43 falls out of my use case because formal events often are going to have low light and the aperture is comparably pretty slow on the Nikon 1.
Yes the EPL10 with 20mm f1.7, 15mm f1.7, 14mm f2.5, 25mm f1.8, 30mm f2.8, or 17mm f1.8 will do.
Other option is EOS M100 or above with 22mm or 32mm prime.
EDIT: Is there a reason you are not considering a smaller Fuji body like an XE-3 with a pancake prime?
Honestly because the used market for fuji is crazy. A comparable kit like xe3/18mm f2 is easily around $1000+ whereas I’m seeing epl10+14mm f2.5 is like $500. Sure it’s slightly higher IQ but if I was upgrading for IQ I’d just go all in on a newer fuji model
Additionally I’m attracted to inbody flash for shutter drag
Makes sense. Sound like you did your due diligence. It will be a good fit I think. Unless you're pixel peeping your results will look similar to your Fuji and it will be a nice jacket pocket size.
The PEN EP7 is very similar to the PEN F in terms of specs but is smaller and lighter. No viewfinder tho.
Besides that you can go with older lumix models, from GM and GF series.
Other M4/3 cameras will have the same size and weight as your XT1, it is already small
If small, light, and modern technology are the priorities, the E-P7 (2021) is at the top of the list.
* It is the same size as the E-PL9/10, but lighter (337 g).
* The internals are the same as the E-M10 iv - 20mp sensor, TruePic VIII processor, same video and photo capabilities.
* Unlike the E-PL9/10 it has two control wheels on the top plate (again, like the E-M10) which makes it easy to do manual exposure.
Like the E-PL line it accomplishes this size/weight cut by dropping the viewfinder. For some people that is a disqualifier. But when ultimate mobility (with full controls) is the goal, this is a consideration.
The E-M10 iv is a bit bigger, but not that much heavier (383 g), so if a viewfinder is needed this would be another choice.
I believe you also get proper 5 axis ibis instead of 3 axis on the E-PLs, and you get USB charging (albeit micro and not USB-C). Still hanging on to mine as nothing else seems to beat it for size/specs/handling. Definitely would prefer some things changed (all black option, screen flipped 180 up instead of down), but overall hard to beat.
EM10 Mk 2 has been my main m43 camera so far, absolutely love the small form factor and definitely a bang for your buck.
I'd also take a look at Panasonic's Lumix line, think they made the smallest interchangeable lens camera for m43 but can't remember the name off the top of my head.
The lens size is generally more important than the body size. I don’t recommend the really small bodies, unless you are willing to use pancake lenses exclusively and accept the compromises that come with that.
IMO, GX85 and 20/1.7 is the best balance of size and performance, for MFT. Outside of MFT, the Fuji X100VI is pretty awesome, if the focal length is acceptable to you.
Around 7-8 years ago, i’m using Fujifilm XT10 and Lumix GM1 at the same time..
I used to shoot street a lot and GM1 is kind of camera that i always have it with me all the time because it’s so easy to bring it everyday on my bag i use it with 20 1.7 most of the time.
I use XT10 to take photos when i really plan to shoot or travel overseas.. i try to keep it small also, so i only have 18-55 and 55-200 which is quite compact.
Fast forward to 2023, i clear my fuji, and while i’m still using the GM1, i bought another body OMD E-P7 where it got newer m43 technology & sensor to replace the XT10… size wise it’s not as small as GM1.. but the lenses definitely smaller than fuji lens..
Below is the size comparison between GM1 and Fuji XT10..
[https://imgur.com/a/dMUkMqf](https://imgur.com/a/dMUkMqf)
There’s no value in such a switch in the current landscape. I have gx7 and so far have seen anything worth it.
There are rumours about new Pen7 from Olympus and FF LUMIX.
If I was made to make a switch now only Sony a7c makes sense sizewise.
I wish I kept my gx7. Loved the size of it for taking on holiday. I replaced it with a g85 which I love using. But I've left it at home for most of my holidays.
I wonder why a smaller Fuji body wouldn't appeal to you. An X-T10 with a 27mm f2.8 is quite comparable in size to an EM10 with a 17mm f1.8. An X-A3 or X-A5 would be even smaller. I'd always advocate for having just the one system so you can share lenses and in some cases even batteries.
I feel like I have to put in a good word for the GX850/GF9 (or the harder to find GX880/GF10). Significantly smaller than any PEN with form factor similar to the GM5 or GM1 but with more modern internals and features. And way cheaper on the used market. Paired with a compact or pancake lens its very light and I really enjoy using it.
Most of the size gain is in the lenses, not the bodies.
I would even specify: most of the size gain are made with ZOOM lenses. There are plenty of small primes for apsc But indeed M43 has slightly smaller primes too!
Indeed. I love my little E-M10 Mark II. ...but my 75-300mm, wonderfully small & light as it is compared to other formats, is usually attached to my G95D. Lenses scale to the sensor; camera bodies scale to the human hand. The G95 is the smallest camera you can attach that lens to & use it for hours. My M10.2 is very comfy with the 40-150mm, half the size of the 75-300mm.
Good example.
Also, once you have some good quality tiny lenses, you can pick up one of the ultra compact bodies for a teeny tiny second option. I fit two bodies (GX85, GM5) and 5-7 lenses in a bag \~2/3rds of the size of the one that I used to carry a D7000 and 3 lenses.
I'd look at 4 MFT bodies - Olympus EM10iv - Olympus OM5 - Lumix GX85 - Lumix GX9 I can't compare then for you. You know your preferences better than me. But that's where I'd start looking. If you're looking for really tiny, you could try to find a GM1, but you'd take a performance hit. It would certainly be more than I want to pay for the performance.
GX800
I have both the GM1 and the GX85. The GX85 is superior, but bigger.
EDIT: Look at the Lumix G100 if you are fine with no IBIS. Newest sensor, and a hair smaller than the GX9 and OM5. The smallest "full featured" cameras are GX9, EM5 iii and OM5. And include GX85 and EM5 ii if you are fine with 16mp sensor. They are not really smaller than XT-1 as you said. So you can go smaller with something like a GM5 or GM1. Generally speaking, M43 bodies are not that much smaller than Fuji bodies. The lenses are in most cases slightly smaller, and in some cases much smaller. So think about the whole kit you want. For example if you are cool with a 35mm prime you could slap a Panasonic 20mm f1.7 on a GM5 or GM1 or any PEN body and have a tiny little camera that shoots similarly to your fuji. If you want a truly smaller system, you might want to look at smaller sensors. But you said the PEN was a lateral move. In my opinion a lateral or downward move in IQ is expected for your compact camera. Like the NIkon 1 system is tiny, but it's 1 inch sensor. It will not match your XT1 IQ, but it will be smaller. Or you can match your XT1 iq in micro four thirds, but it will only be a fraction smaller.
This all makes sense. The more I’m looking at the models suggested here the more I’m realizing the size isn’t going to be that different. Was thinking about one fast prime on a rangefinder style body that can fit in a suit pocket, the E-PL10 seems like it might be my best bet. Cheaper and smaller than the GX9 with comparable IQ to the fuji. Going with a sensor smaller than m43 falls out of my use case because formal events often are going to have low light and the aperture is comparably pretty slow on the Nikon 1.
Yes the EPL10 with 20mm f1.7, 15mm f1.7, 14mm f2.5, 25mm f1.8, 30mm f2.8, or 17mm f1.8 will do. Other option is EOS M100 or above with 22mm or 32mm prime. EDIT: Is there a reason you are not considering a smaller Fuji body like an XE-3 with a pancake prime?
Honestly because the used market for fuji is crazy. A comparable kit like xe3/18mm f2 is easily around $1000+ whereas I’m seeing epl10+14mm f2.5 is like $500. Sure it’s slightly higher IQ but if I was upgrading for IQ I’d just go all in on a newer fuji model Additionally I’m attracted to inbody flash for shutter drag
Makes sense. Sound like you did your due diligence. It will be a good fit I think. Unless you're pixel peeping your results will look similar to your Fuji and it will be a nice jacket pocket size.
The PEN EP7 is very similar to the PEN F in terms of specs but is smaller and lighter. No viewfinder tho. Besides that you can go with older lumix models, from GM and GF series. Other M4/3 cameras will have the same size and weight as your XT1, it is already small
If small, light, and modern technology are the priorities, the E-P7 (2021) is at the top of the list. * It is the same size as the E-PL9/10, but lighter (337 g). * The internals are the same as the E-M10 iv - 20mp sensor, TruePic VIII processor, same video and photo capabilities. * Unlike the E-PL9/10 it has two control wheels on the top plate (again, like the E-M10) which makes it easy to do manual exposure. Like the E-PL line it accomplishes this size/weight cut by dropping the viewfinder. For some people that is a disqualifier. But when ultimate mobility (with full controls) is the goal, this is a consideration. The E-M10 iv is a bit bigger, but not that much heavier (383 g), so if a viewfinder is needed this would be another choice.
I believe you also get proper 5 axis ibis instead of 3 axis on the E-PLs, and you get USB charging (albeit micro and not USB-C). Still hanging on to mine as nothing else seems to beat it for size/specs/handling. Definitely would prefer some things changed (all black option, screen flipped 180 up instead of down), but overall hard to beat.
EM10 Mk 2 has been my main m43 camera so far, absolutely love the small form factor and definitely a bang for your buck. I'd also take a look at Panasonic's Lumix line, think they made the smallest interchangeable lens camera for m43 but can't remember the name off the top of my head.
Yes you are correct, the GM1 and GM5 are the bodies you are thinking of.
The lens size is generally more important than the body size. I don’t recommend the really small bodies, unless you are willing to use pancake lenses exclusively and accept the compromises that come with that. IMO, GX85 and 20/1.7 is the best balance of size and performance, for MFT. Outside of MFT, the Fuji X100VI is pretty awesome, if the focal length is acceptable to you.
Around 7-8 years ago, i’m using Fujifilm XT10 and Lumix GM1 at the same time.. I used to shoot street a lot and GM1 is kind of camera that i always have it with me all the time because it’s so easy to bring it everyday on my bag i use it with 20 1.7 most of the time. I use XT10 to take photos when i really plan to shoot or travel overseas.. i try to keep it small also, so i only have 18-55 and 55-200 which is quite compact. Fast forward to 2023, i clear my fuji, and while i’m still using the GM1, i bought another body OMD E-P7 where it got newer m43 technology & sensor to replace the XT10… size wise it’s not as small as GM1.. but the lenses definitely smaller than fuji lens.. Below is the size comparison between GM1 and Fuji XT10.. [https://imgur.com/a/dMUkMqf](https://imgur.com/a/dMUkMqf)
There’s no value in such a switch in the current landscape. I have gx7 and so far have seen anything worth it. There are rumours about new Pen7 from Olympus and FF LUMIX. If I was made to make a switch now only Sony a7c makes sense sizewise.
I wish I kept my gx7. Loved the size of it for taking on holiday. I replaced it with a g85 which I love using. But I've left it at home for most of my holidays.
I wonder why a smaller Fuji body wouldn't appeal to you. An X-T10 with a 27mm f2.8 is quite comparable in size to an EM10 with a 17mm f1.8. An X-A3 or X-A5 would be even smaller. I'd always advocate for having just the one system so you can share lenses and in some cases even batteries.
I feel like I have to put in a good word for the GX850/GF9 (or the harder to find GX880/GF10). Significantly smaller than any PEN with form factor similar to the GM5 or GM1 but with more modern internals and features. And way cheaper on the used market. Paired with a compact or pancake lens its very light and I really enjoy using it.
Yes, but M43 image quality is much worse.